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06-14-2010, 09:57 PM
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#61 |
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Timed Out
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Ok, so I have been thinking...cuz that's something I do sometimes.
Now while I know very well that femmes can take care of themselves, and can speak their minds, I have to say, it pisses me off when butches act like frat boys (and I say that specifically about butches, because I've never seen femmes do it in the same sexist way I've seen butches do it)...but I especially don't like it when butches do this around femmes. This isn't something new...I've started threads on the topic. Nat described an event in a previous post. I was the other member who was at that gathering. The behavior was horrible. Now, I've been around butches who act like that when it's just the butches, and it skeeves me out, but when there's a femme friend there it's 100 times skeevier. And while I don't feel a need to 'protect', I do feel more compelled to say something about it. These particular butches' behavior was absolutely ghastly. In fact, that gathering was one of the last times I saw any of those people. It's definitely the last time I saw them as a group. I did say something to the one I knew the best, and she said, "What? We're all girls here." Which is the answer I hate the most...but I have a really hard time with female bodied people (especially...I have a hard time with male bodied people too) acting like complete misogynist assholes under the "What? We are all girls" excuse. I've been in this position with another butch in which she objectified femmes in the most disgusting way possible...including Mahhh Woman and Lipsy...well and almlst every femme at a couple different gatherings. I'm sorry, but when you stand behind Mahhh Woman and make comments about her bootay,and you talk about her (and other femmes whom I consider friends) like pieces of meat...I'm gonna have a problem with that. Would I have a problem if I saw femmes do this? I honestly don't know, because I've never heard a group of femmes make the same disgusting comments. And I'm not talking about cussing or being ironically frat boy esque...I'm talking about being misogynistically GROSS. Also...this whole 'butches and femmes are the same' line of thinking makes me call bullshit. Because if that were the case, wouldn't that just make everyone here a tweener or andro or whatever the correct word of the week is for 'run of the mill average'? Why would we have a 'dance' or 'energy' or 59 bajillion threads on gender breakdowns? And I'm not talking about rescuing anyone or protecting anyone...I'm talking about misogynistic, piggish, inappropriate talk that always (in my experience) directed at femmes in my community. And I've seen where IF a femme DOES say something they're mocked as 'cute' or 'eyerolled' or literally laughed at. Hope I'm Clear, Dylan And one more thing. I have and will continue to say something in these circumstances or in circumstances where men are involved because I know I will be taken more seriously |
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06-14-2010, 10:10 PM
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#62 | |
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MILLION $$$ PUSSY
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Maybe just maybe people will read this and knock their bullshit off and stop with their bullshit. Cause frankly after my last interaction just 5 minutes ago with this kind of fucking experience I am done... Learn to respect boundaries, it's not that difficult 
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"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden   |
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06-15-2010, 10:09 AM
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#63 |
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whoever reads this thread pay attention to what dylan said up there...
all you folks that bitched and moaned about the opening thread i dare you to find a way to snark his words... he very eloquently said the blatant truth... i am sure that several of you may have to posture up and yell about how by god you arent that way... but... you can not deny the fact that it is true! |
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06-15-2010, 10:33 AM
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#64 |
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Pink Confection
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Not touching the issue that started this thread...
However, on the subject of Femmes being Ladies and needing to be treated differently? Please do not treat me with kid gloves. Yes there are times for lovely manners and there are times to just be. (ie Funeral V. Hockey Game) "Just being" for me, does include cursing. A lot of it.  Yes, we can take care of ourselves and if we have a problem with someone's language we can tell them off all by ourselves. In fact, some of us quite enjoy it. (from me, it will likely be sexist/racist/classist comments, not cursing)Umm, and there might be times when I might have been/or be piggish discussing other Femmes and/or Butches. Yes, I love a good mind, but....well, you know. I keep hoping I will grow up and act like a nice Femme Lady is "supposed" to act 24/7, but it seems doubtful at this point. Yeay!
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06-15-2010, 05:19 PM
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#65 | |
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For me, "the dance" is about relationship and interaction, sexual and otherwise. We are definitely not the same. But, that doesn't give either of us license to be jerks. What is a mutual expectation is that we treat each other (and others) with respect and kindness. If anyone feels compelled to rally to my defense, or to join in as a voice of support, that's OK with me. But, I would ask that it not be done in a way that's patronizing or condescending. Does that make sense? It's the patronizing stuff that makes it icky, not the show of support.
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06-15-2010, 06:04 PM
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#66 | |
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06-15-2010, 06:26 PM
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#67 | |
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Timed Out
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Granted, I probably would have done it a different way, but I think the overall result of the thread has been a pretty positive conversation about things I haven't often seen discussed. Your comments seem kind of dismissive to me so please help me understand what you're trying to say. |
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06-15-2010, 07:02 PM
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#68 | |
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06-15-2010, 07:30 PM
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#69 | |
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06-15-2010, 07:57 PM
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#70 | |
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Timed Out
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In MY experience, I have NEVER seen a femme giggle about it or enjoy it. I have seen a femme try to lighten the mood if ThePig is called out, but I have never seen a femme enjoy it (unless it was her partner saying it to her, but that's a different horse, and none of my business). I've seen femmes sit uncomfortably while some piggish butch made comments about their asses/bippies/outfits/whatnot...but not enjoy. Again, I'm so not arguing with your experience...just sharing the differences in experiences. Dylan |
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06-15-2010, 08:10 PM
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#71 |
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A funny story, probably nothing to do with the OP, more with Dylan & Nat's sideways derail kinda..
Several years back, I went to a Halloween party at a friends house, and I wore a corset and..some other things ( I think the over all costume was general gypsy.. ) , nice very stick em up and out there corset...! A couple people came in, that never took off their masks.. While I knew a lot of people there, there was some I didn't, and.. many BF, but some not.. Anyway, these 2 people, were.. really .. overly familiar... and made very lewd comments..so I just moved away.. But it did irritate me.. and I really hated it. Other thing s were going on, I forgot about it.. Come to find out later, I did actually know one of them.. And I was even angrier.. and surprised, at their behavior, which I guess, was emboldened by the whole no one knows who we are.. blech.. Anyway, no, I don't enjoy it.. Ok, consenting adults playing consensual games, thats a different story.. Oh I forgot.. Sort of the point was.. I presumed, as in assumed, the two people, were "regular as in non BF ple who don't identify as such " Lesbians. The shocking part to me, was that one actually was a Butch. |
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06-15-2010, 08:24 PM
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#72 | |
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06-15-2010, 09:08 PM
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#73 |
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a little of the clarification you asked for...
earlier when i pointed to dylans post i was in some weird spot in my head that was just saying 'hells yeah' really loudly... he said a lot of what was in my head very thoroughly and well... i obviously couldnt do it... i have read several very insightful posts here... many from folks of the femme persuasion that i appreciated immensely... i had read too many posts from folks that refused to see or hear the parts where i said that i in no way thought a femme was weak or helpless or in need of rescue... i was amazed at how many had to speak up and say that this was an absurd topic because by god they werent that way so it must not exist... i saw dylans post as very easy to understand and so well said that it was unarguable... and... yeah... i know not all of it applies to not everyone... but... enough of it was what i wanted to point out that i got all giddy and shit and had to give it a big hell yeah! thanks yall for the thought you have provoked... a lot of us do not respect femmes the way we should... a lot of us are guilty of pushing ourselves on or above a femme without thought... if this helps anything... i welcome the idiocy i was exposed to for broaching the subject... thanks yall... p.s. i feel i should apologize for being in my own head for most of my posts in this thread... i sometimes have a hard time getting my thoughts to words... i know that i cant expect everyone to understand what the hell i am trying to get at...hell maybe i shouldnt expect anyone to get it... no one else knows i am in actuality a stand up kinda person that just likes to look at stuff from a lot of different directions... even a lot of them that arent and never would be mine own... everyones opinions count to someone... sometimes i like to try to find out why... |
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06-16-2010, 03:11 AM
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#74 | |
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Well maybe we are imagining different levels of piggish behavior.
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