2020 Presidential Election

[kittygrrl]

@ this moment i like Castro/Harris..but @ this point, i'd vote for the boogey man rather then another 4 years of trump

[C0LLETTE]

I'm hoping a candidate will be picked who can :
" #MakeDonaldDrumpfAgain " (courtesy of John Oliver )

[Martina]

Asked what's the first and possibly only thing they'd do, Kamala says middle class tax cuts, and Bernie says take on the special interests. That tells you EVERYTHING. Kamala, while I like her, is another corporate liberal. Bernie is a true progressive. He never loses sight of what's important. That moment said EVERYTHING. There really is no one else to vote for. Bernie is by far the only one who has not bought in to corporate rule of our country.

Bernie's closing was the same. About what is fundamentally wrong and what change means.

Kamala did well, obviously. She was great on race. She kicked Biden's ass. She did a good job.

Mayor Pete was great, but if it's true that many African American voters won't vote for him, we can't afford his candidacy. He's young. He can wait a minute. I think he's amazing though.

Another good debate, I thought. I was never a big fan of Gillibrand, but she got my attention re standing up to Mitch McConnell.

I thought it was not a great night for Biden although he fought hard. His policies seemed -- and are -- behind the times. He looked old. Sort of strange really. Too much makeup?

Marianne Williamson is a trip, but I thought she made a great point about chemicals causing health problems.

I thought Rep. Swalwell did really well, especially on guns although Mayor Pete handled his defense well. A good showing.

But Bernie showed why he is the one to beat Trump and offer us a future, IMO.

[charley]

Originally Posted by Martina

Asked what's the first and possibly only thing they'd do, Kamala says middle class tax cuts, and Bernie says take on the special interests. That tells you EVERYTHING. Kamala, while I like her, is another corporate liberal. Bernie is a true progressive. He never loses sight of what's important. That moment said EVERYTHING. There really is no one else to vote for. Bernie is by far the only one who has not bought in to corporate rule of our country.

Bernie's closing was the same. About what is fundamentally wrong and what change means.

Kamala did well, obviously. She was great on race. She kicked Biden's ass. She did a good job.

Mayor Pete was great, but if it's true that many African American voters won't vote for him, we can't afford his candidacy. He's young. He can wait a minute. I think he's amazing though.

Another good debate, I thought. I was never a big fan of Gillibrand, but she got my attention re standing up to Mitch McConnell.

I thought it was not a great night for Biden although he fought hard. His policies seemed -- and are -- behind the times. He looked old. Sort of strange really. Too much makeup?

Marianne Williamson is a trip, but I thought she made a great point about chemicals causing health problems.

I thought Rep. Swalwell did really well, especially on guns although Mayor Pete handled his defense well. A good showing.

But Bernie showed why he is the one to beat Trump and offer us a future, IMO.

Yes, indeed, I did like Kamala and Bernie. But, I think Kamala was the only one who really showed that she could take on the Republicans. She won the night.

My take on Bernie is that he seemed out of place in the midst of all the other candidates, and I think it is because of all things, his platform indicates that while some refer to him as a socialist, a progressive, the main thing is that he is not a capitalist (just like me - chuckles). And all the other Dem candidates are capitalists, just like the Republicans, only the difference between the two parties is a question of degree. Of course, the Republicans are so far out in right field that they seem to have forfeited any sense of humanity. Bernie would have no chance of winning an election if he had been elected to run against Trump, because of his stance and because most Americans believe in capitalism - the American dream. So, yes, I agree with you, Martina, when you said that Bernie "is by far the only one who has not bought into corporate rule of our country." However, I don't think the Dem electoral peeps are prepared to accept Bernie's position. It would be a fantasy to imagine that most Americans would accept a pov that seems to attack capitalism in any form.

I liked Biden less and less...

I do not trust Pete, even though his ideas are engaging. But, as Mayor, he could easily fire his Chief of Police and fight for and force the adoption of a more sensitive agenda regarding race relations in his home town, but that particular position might place his own mayorship in jeopardy. It just seemed that he holds his position as a politician in his own home town because he knows how to play the political game, just like Biden - which means nothing to me personally.

I am just beginning to be curious to see who wins this Dem nomination.

As an aside, there is one thing I don't understand, and that is why Pelosi doesn't run herself.

[~ocean]

Harris would make a good candidate for a post on in the US cabinet ~ she doesn't have enough class to represent our country. We have a classless leader now why repeat that with Harris ~ a lot of the candidates showed potential placement's for the future US cabinet , IMO only 2 have shown a presidential potential ~

[kittygrrl]

Originally Posted by ~ocean

Harris would make a good candidate for a post on in the US cabinet ~ she doesn't have enough class to represent our country...

I have a tendency to agree...i abhor greed & grabs for power and i see Harris as too greedy for the presidency and apparently capable of enviserating anyone who gets in her way -her takedown of Biden was unnecessary, chiding him for something he did over 40 years ago...hello, we are in 2019..wasn't fair or civil nor relevant ... ...as i predicted this 2nd lot was deeply disappointing...they behaved like a pack of wolves circling prey-I will never vote for Harris.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by charley

Yes, indeed, I did like Kamala and Bernie. But, I think Kamala was the only one who really showed that she could take on the Republicans. She won the night.

My take on Bernie is that he seemed out of place in the midst of all the other candidates, and I think it is because of all things, his platform indicates that while some refer to him as a socialist, a progressive, the main thing is that he is not a capitalist (just like me - chuckles). And all the other Dem candidates are capitalists, just like the Republicans, only the difference between the two parties is a question of degree. Of course, the Republicans are so far out in right field that they seem to have forfeited any sense of humanity. Bernie would have no chance of winning an election if he had been elected to run against Trump, because of his stance and because most Americans believe in capitalism - the American dream. So, yes, I agree with you, Martina, when you said that Bernie "is by far the only one who has not bought into corporate rule of our country." However, I don't think the Dem electoral peeps are prepared to accept Bernie's position. It would be a fantasy to imagine that most Americans would accept a pov that seems to attack capitalism in any form.

I liked Biden less and less...

I do not trust Pete, even though his ideas are engaging. But, as Mayor, he could easily fire his Chief of Police and fight for and force the adoption of a more sensitive agenda regarding race relations in his home town, but that particular position might place his own mayorship in jeopardy. It just seemed that he holds his position as a politician in his own home town because he knows how to play the political game, just like Biden - which means nothing to me personally.

I am just beginning to be curious to see who wins this Dem nomination.

As an aside, there is one thing I don't understand, and that is why Pelosi doesn't run herself.

My guess would be that Pelosi does not run because of the structure of our government. We have (supposedly) 3 coequal branches of government; Executive, Legislative, and Judicial...Pelosi/McConnel hold nearly the same amount of power as the President, but in different ways...as does the US Supreme Court.

Have you ever heard of the Peter principle? It means taking a top performer from one job, and putting them into another job where they fail badly. Ie...Just because someone is a great singer, it doesn’t mean they have the ability to be a ballerina.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by kittygrrl

I have a tendency to agree...i abhor greed & grabs for power and i see Harris as too greedy for the presidency and apparently capable of enviserating anyone who gets in her way -her takedown of Biden was unnecessary, chiding him for something he did over 40 years ago...hello, we are in 2019..wasn't fair or civil nor relevant ... ...as i predicted this 2nd lot was deeply disappointing...they behaved like a pack of wolves circling prey-I will never vote for Harris.

If Biden didn’t keep digging his hole deeper, then I would agree with you...his mistakes were in the past. But...he keeps trying to justify what he did without giving thought to the damage he continues to cause.

Harris is a bit rough around the edges, but I want someone strong and take charge! Are we objecting to her because she is kick ass instead of “ladylike”? Well FUCK ladylike, we need an ass kicker to beat Trump!

[kittygrrl]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

If Biden didn’t keep digging his hole deeper, then I would agree with you...his mistakes were in the past. But...he keeps trying to justify what he did without giving thought to the damage he continues to cause.

Harris is a bit rough around the edges, but I want someone strong and take charge! Are we objecting to her because she is kick ass instead of “ladylike”? Well FUCK ladylike, we need an ass kicker to beat Trump!

well spoken Tinkerberry..but i must disagree..there is a time for everything but the calculated enviseration was needless, this was merely exercise to her..i detest using another's weakness to show power..like a snake ready to strike..is that beautiful? no, it should fill every democrat's heart with horror that we are no better then the Republicans and capable of every outrage and more...there is a time and place for revenge-against enemies, not friends..she is foolish and not nearly as clever as she needs to be..incompetent.

imo

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by kittygrrl

well spoken Tinkerberry..but i must disagree..there is a time for everything but the calculated enviseration was needless, this was merely exercise to her..i detest using another's weakness to show power..like a snake ready to strike..is that beautiful? no, it should fill every democrat's heart with horror that we are no better then the Republicans and capable of every outrage and more...there is a time and place for revenge-against enemies, not friends..she is foolish and not nearly as clever as she needs to be..incompetent.

imo

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one I think. I’m tired of Democrat politicians being nice and turning the other cheek only to have that cheek slapped as well. We are the party of the namby, pamby, weak talking, losing to assholes like Trump party, and someone needs to pull up their big girl/boy panties and fight for US!!

[C0LLETTE]

Might be useful to remember that you're trying to defeat a Fascist president not adopt a cute puppy.

[kittygrrl]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Might be useful to remember that you're trying to defeat a Fascist president not adopt a cute puppy.

In the long run if Biden is not capable of dealing w Trump it will become obvious..It was disheartening to watch adults last night attacking at each other, interrupting and for some to think that a victory. We never learn. Noted, Mayor Pete & Biden were the only ones who did not join in the free for all ...We need someone who can think strategically..which apparently is a stretch for most of these candidates and democrats in general. However, i am hopeful that one decent human being shall become known and prevail..will she/he be perfect? No...but hopefully it will not be Harris or anyone like her...I'm not interested in someone who can trump, Trump. Hell, just about anyone with half a brain can do that.

We need the next President to be a person of vision, intelligence, & wisdom who can lead us into the future..anything less then that will only make things worse.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by kittygrrl

In the long run if Biden is not capable of dealing w Trump it will become obvious..It was disheartening to watch adults last night attacking at each other, interrupting and for some to think that a victory. We never learn. Noted, Mayor Pete & Biden were the only ones who did not join in the free for all ...We need someone who can think strategically..which apparently is a stretch for most of these candidates and democrats in general. However, i am hopeful that one decent human being shall become known and prevail..will she/he be perfect? No...but hopefully it will not be Harris or anyone like her...I'm not interested in someone who can trump, Trump. Hell, just about anyone with half a brain can do that.

We need the next President to be a person of vision, intelligence, & wisdom who can lead us into the future..anything less then that will only make things worse.

Not trying to dump on you kitty, but remember where nice and Hilary got us last time..... The time for civility may have ended with Trump, because I now see every Republican after his term, pulling the same crap.

Maybe someday Democrats can be all warm and fuzzy again, but now? Now we need a strong determined leader to fight the fight and get this country back on track. Good ol’ Joe or milktoast Mayor Pete are not going to get us there.

[Orema]

I think Harris came out on top and if I had to vote today it would be for her, but I don’t think any of them will be able to beat Trump. At least not based on what I saw in the two debates.

They’ll need to be more ruthless, cunning, and convincing. Harris was these things with Biden, but Trump is a different cookie and I wonder how she would (will?) handle him as an opponent.

I’m not optimistic after watching the debates but i haven’t given up hope, either.

[kittygrrl]

I don't believe being more ruthless will get us to a better place . This is only an opinion.

[kittygrrl]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

Not trying to dump on you kitty, but remember where nice and Hilary got us last time.....

I honestly don't mind Tinkerbelly

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by kittygrrl

I honestly don't mind Tinkerbelly

I always find having a discussion with you to be refreshing.

[~ocean]

thankfully we live in a freedom of speech country, with very tender subject like politics , we can SHARE our views ! always remember to nod that we are free thinkers and someone's views can open our eyes to another way to look at a subject ~ bashing is as classless as being ignorant to other country's politics. The up coming year is going to be intense . ** smiling ** and ^ 5's all my sister's. be kind ~

[Martina]

Spoil sport!

Originally Posted by ~ocean

thankfully we live in a freedom of speech country, with very tender subject like politics , we can SHARE our views ! always remember to nod that we are free thinkers and someone's views can open our eyes to another way to look at a subject ~ bashing is as classless as being ignorant to other country's politics. The up coming year is going to be intense . ** smiling ** and ^ 5's all my sister's. be kind ~

[dark_crystal]

Since the debates i feel i could do a 180 from my position last year and declare that we do need to split the party into liberals vs. progressives.

Today I really felt like the progressives should not have been at these debates. I do not feel like progressives are dragging centrists to the left, and i do feel like sharing the stage with centrists is forcing progressives to leave a lot unsaid.

They just should not be competing for the same base of voters, and i feel like the real differences between the two wings are obscured when they try to share any platform.

Put Gabbard, Yang, Williamson, and Bernie (etc?) on one stage and the rest of them(?) on another stage and let the winners debate each other.

Centrists gonna centrist. Let the centrists debate themselves and let the progressives debate themselves. Let the real values of each wing crystallize around their very best person and let them confront each other directly.

Let people compare apples to oranges instead of having ideologically polarized candidates try to pretend they're all apples.

Right now the two wings are trying to put on different sleeves of the same jacket. Voters need to see two separate jackets.

I have been listening to the audiobook of The Chapo Guide to Revolution and i just feel like progressives hate the democratic party too much to continue trying to do a makeover on it in good faith.

Progressives should be their own party. And 2020 might be a perfect storm year for that.

Trump IS very weak. Bernie is very strong. Progressives may not get anyone as strong as Bernie for decades-- someone that could peel off enough support from centrism-- given the opportunity to run directly against it-- to outnumber what remains of Trump's base. There may be no other candidate for awhile who has enough grassroots support to be able to viably turn their back on a major party.