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Old 01-14-2010, 12:34 PM   #21
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When I see a Femme/Femme couple, I don't get uncomfortable, I just think "Lesbian." They would have to specifically tell me they didn't id as Lesbian before I would know that about them.

The same with a Butch/Butch couple--again I just think "Lesbian" and they would have to tell me that they don't id that way.

Seeing ANYONE I can identify as "Family" always makes me happy. I relax some inside when I'm around people who are identifiable in some way as Queer; I feel more secure when I don't feel like I'm completely isolated, the only Queer in the crowd.


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Old 01-14-2010, 01:56 PM   #22
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So, you may have two same sex people (say, two female ID'd people), whose gender (butch on butch) match. They are homosexed, and also homogendered. But you may also have two differently sexed folks (male/female...again to keep it simple), whose genders are aligned (effeminate male with a non-masculine female). Heterosexed but homogendered. A transman and a female ID'd butch...could be heterosexed, but homogendered also (or heterosexed and heterogendered if the transman were feminine). (again, using gender very loosely as feminine and masculine just to keep things simple).

Ohhhhhhhhh. yeah yeah, totally get you. Yes that has marched across by brain before in a half-arsed way, getting lost and distracted in any other side thoughts passing along parallel.

totally. I hadn't thought about it in terms of "why people get uncomfortable" just "why I still consider that "het couple" not het at all and actually completely queer. I think the first one a met was my partner's (at the time) ex who was butch lesbian, falling in love with an effeminant bisexual male who wooed her for yonks. it may have been hetero/hetero even in both terms but it was still queer-ass.

that isn't even an example you were using, but it sure as fuck made people VERY uncomfortable, from every single group... Cept the bi friends they had...

But yes I see what you are saying, completely. Also another friend, who transitioned, who used to butch-femme, found he was more attracted to transmen after a few years. we had a good chat. He said that "I dunno, I think my sexuality is just very homo. after transitioning, it just felt too hetero for some reason I can't put my finger on..."

so, maybe for some people the homosex/homosexuality/homogender is all part of it?
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Old 04-16-2010, 10:47 AM   #23
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My 4 cents.

I believe the heart what the heart wants..Desire is a power so often out of our control..It comes and goes in all aspects of life..in high school I loved looking at feminine woman..yet my girlfriend was a tomboy lol..I appreciate a beautiful woman any size shape and color..I tend to desire the butch more becuase of the security I find in that dynamic..but like say if Kate Beckensale was available and looked in my direction..i'd take it! lol..and enjoy it lol..ooooooooo would I ever haha..ahem..off topic ok where was I? lol..oh ya..My desire for all things in life are different and eclectic..But being gay and living with the stigma that at times comes with that, made me realize that althougth I do not understand something in my community does not mean it is wrong or shouldnt happen. Do what makes you happy..you only get one go in this world..fuck it up! and in a good way

just a side note..I have a 16 yr old daughter who tells me her friends think im the coolest because Im a lesbian..rewind this when I was 16 and I was NOT the coolest because I was..wow how far we have come lol..

Enjoying my coffee and loving my life
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:42 PM   #24
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:36 PM   #25
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Whatever will come, will come
Whatever will happen, will happen
Whatever will be, will be

Que Sera, Sera!
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Old 04-16-2010, 05:34 PM   #26
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Well, i fetishize butch on butch. It's just hot.

i once got seriously chastised because i couldn't stop looking at this hot hot hot threesome of young butches at a play party. It was worth it. OMG.

i have got some shit from femmes for dating a femme. i mean some serious shaming stuff. i wish they just thought, oh, there goes a lesbian. Really homophobic reactions. "Ewwwwww" i got several times. This is LIVE. No computer to hide behind. i got that online -- in chat -- though too. i have heard things like, "IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII don't do Ma'ams." i don't know what to say to that except, good, that leaves more for me.
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:58 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Martina View Post
Well, i fetishize butch on butch. It's just hot.

i once got seriously chastised because i couldn't stop looking at this hot hot hot threesome of young butches at a play party. It was worth it. OMG.

i have got some shit from femmes for dating a femme. i mean some serious shaming stuff. i wish they just thought, oh, there goes a lesbian. Really homophobic reactions. "Ewwwwww" i got several times. This is LIVE. No computer to hide behind. i got that online -- in chat -- though too. i have heard things like, "IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII don't do Ma'ams." i don't know what to say to that except, good, that leaves more for me.
Amen! Amen!!

I also thinks its just hawt - and will just tell folks that I am objectifying them!

I don't understand the very rigid perceptions people have concerning butch/butch or femme/femme. I didn't give up my "lesbian card" when I embraced that I fit into the femme category. Hell, I probably salivate over women more than Jess does!

I really wish that we, as a LGBTIQ (etc) community could stop being so critical and judgmental of one another - how do we expect the rest of the world to embrace our diversity when we don't practice what we preach?
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:08 PM   #28
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I have to freely admit that when I first became a part of the online community that has blessed me with so many interesting caring friends and acquaintances,my knee jerk reaction to butch-butch was a big ole "YUK!" But after sitting with this and realizing it was a homophobic reaction I asked myself a simple question; "Who are you to judge what two or more consenting adults do in their bedroom or out of it,or to question what attracts them to another person?" The answer was,and is "nobody". That was a very freeing thing for me and allowed me to grow and more fully embrace the never ending diversity of our community. Just my .02. Shad
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:42 PM   #29
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For me having my formative queer years in a very much lesbian/andro community I really didn't have any exposure to the B-F dynamic until later in life . I have to admit when I finally found other butch/femme queers I was kinda jealous when I would see the butch-butch dynamic. Mostly due to the fact that I couldn't find a butch that was into femmes, so you see, it seemed quite unfair that another butch could have one when you all seemed in such short supply already Now that I am all growed up and married to my handsome Husbutch I don't mind at all
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:04 PM   #30
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butchonbutch dot ning

If you happen to be looking for something try it. We wish we knew where this b4b community is. Sort of the mythical lost land of butches, we hear about it but no one knows where it really is. Nice to daydream about it sometimes. It's like the lost tribe of Amazons.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:47 AM   #31
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ohhh zomg but i find butches hot, hot, HAWT! mostly though, i want to be them, rather than fuck them. but i don't see anything wrong with any adult being with another adult. butch on butch? beautiful.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:50 PM   #32
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Default butch/butch

I have been out for 10 yrs and this is my whole life.....being a middle to a soft butch and being w/ a butch...Never thought I would find one that just loves me for me. WELL Now I have she is in Conn....but wants to move out to CA. She was born in Britain but moved to RI when she was 14 and then to SD and now to Conn. but she wants to move out to Calif to be w/ me. Never been this deep in love w/ someone before....having to pinch myself all the time...is this real.:bunchflowers :
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Old 11-11-2010, 04:25 PM   #33
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Ok, so in a nutshell here is my butch haircut,stance,personality,preference and anything else you would like to claim as such. YES, I adore the butch/butch relationship dynamic and proudly I will continue to wear it.

deathbypoem, have you checked out www dot butchboi dot com ? Lots of hot butches, bois, and ftms! In fact, I know many of them.

In Oakland/San Francisco a lot of masculine ID'd folks date, play, have sex, and partner with each other. Many femme/femme couples do as well, but itís extremely rare to actually see them coupled. Knowing many of these femmes (my partner included), it has nothing to do with fear of stigma, they simply prefer butches. I must admit that at first I did feel a bit uncomfortable with my partner's attraction to femmes. Within all these possible combinations though, the vast majority of couples here are butch/femme.

I haven't seen or personally experienced judgment for any combination of queers including cisgender men. Perhaps I'm just fortunate to have an open-minded circle of friends. However, on very rare occasions there does tend to be some stigma if a butch or femme marries or partners with a cisgender man, more so when a femme does.


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What does it mean for a butch to desire another butch? How is butch desire expressed?


I don't date or partner masculine ID'd people, but do play and occasionally have sex with them. I always top and the energy is quite different, more rough, raw, more emotionally detached, no romance, less physically and sexually satisfying, but extremely mentally satisfying and a much different power exchange that I really love. Even as mean and nasty as I can be with them, I'm still sensitive and nurturing, and it's always mutually satisfying; once a Daddy, always a Daddy. Speaking of which, I love being in a D/b relationship. I definitely understand the attraction and hotness aspect of masculine/masculine energy and have been with people that prefer that. It's just not the sort of dynamic I want full-time. Iím really hardwired attracted to femmes. I adore everything about them.
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Old 11-11-2010, 04:37 PM   #34
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In Oakland/San Francisco a lot of masculine ID'd folks date, play, have sex, and partner with each other. Many femme/femme couples do as well, but itís extremely rare to actually see them coupled. Knowing many of these femmes (my partner included), it has nothing to do with fear of stigma, they simply prefer butches.
why is there the stigma of 2 butches or a middle and butch being together....I am a softy and my gf is a butch....THIS is all I have been w/ the whole 10 yrs that I have been out as a lesbian. The first woman I ever dated was on Gay.com she was a tweener and me the soft butch.....most people can tell the min they meet me that I am gay...because of the fact that I guess I wear my sexuality out there...that I don't hide very well.

I just recently started coming to the planet in the last yr. IN fact I think it has been only in the last 6 mos that I really got involved w/ getting to know people here. I like seeing femmes....they are wonderful "eye Candy" but there isn't a sexual attraction to them. I always think that I am the odd duck....for my feelings towards butches.

Does anyone know about the Butch/femme Scene in the Stockton Sacramento area or down here in say the area of Pomona/covina/claremont/glendora area???
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Old 11-11-2010, 05:16 PM   #35
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In Oakland/San Francisco a lot of masculine ID'd folks date, play, have sex, and partner with each other. Many femme/femme couples do as well, but itís extremely rare to actually see them coupled. Knowing many of these femmes (my partner included), it has nothing to do with fear of stigma, they simply prefer butches.
why is there the stigma of 2 butches or a middle and butch being together....I am a softy and my gf is a butch....THIS is all I have been w/ the whole 10 yrs that I have been out as a lesbian. The first woman I ever dated was on Gay.com she was a tweener and me the soft butch.....most people can tell the min they meet me that I am gay...because of the fact that I guess I wear my sexuality out there...that I don't hide very well.
Hi naturlover,

I'm not sure if you're responding directly to my quote or not, but I believe you may have misunderstood me. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I stated not having seen any stigma in my community between butch or femme couples, and that there are many more butch couples, but hardly any femme couples. The lack of femme couples isn't due to their fear of stigma, but a preference for butches. I hope that clears things up for you.



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I don't date or partner masculine ID'd people, but do play and occasionally have sex with them. I always top and the energy is quite different, more rough, raw, more emotionally detached, no romance, less physically and sexually satisfying, but extremely mentally satisfying and a much different power exchange that I really love. Even as mean and nasty as I can be with them, I'm still sensitive and nurturing, and it's always mutually satisfying; once a Daddy, always a Daddy. [/SIZE]
I also just realized that my statement above sounds like I'm not as mean and nasty nor have rough and raw sex with femmes. That is FAR from the case! It's just not as emotionally and sexually satisfying for me with masculine folks.
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:33 PM   #36
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Default butches and butches

yes it did thanks very very much

I am wondering if this is the same for other areas up there my love and I can't afford to live directly in the Bay area but would love to go and hang out there a lot when we can and have the $$ to.irate :
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Old 11-11-2010, 09:26 PM   #37
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To each their own, as long as it's two consenting adults it shouldn't matter to anyone. Your kink may not be my kink and vice-versa but we each have a right to pursue our own personal happiness.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:35 PM   #38
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butch on butch is such a fascinating concept.

To me its such a celebration of equals. Its also really sexy. Here in milwaukee, butches dating butches is a strict no-no. They feel that in order to really be a true lesbian it has to be butch/femme or femme/femme. Its nothing but bs and discrimination. I've noticed that people will always be uncomfortable with anything they dont even slightly understand.

I am nothing but a gender fuck. My identity lies all over the grey area of the kinsey scale in terms of gender and orientation. I love all women and trans bois. Its amazing the about of bull i get for being a butch that loves other butches and trans guys. For me its all about gender play and the fact that its taboo here makes it so much sexier. Its like being 2 gay men but far from it. Its impossible to find another butch that enjoys being with other butches. ironically now, the girl im with is the farthest thing from being butch. ultra femme and not my type. maybe thats why it works so well.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:36 PM   #39
LediskoLove99
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My thoughts have always been, we have so many limitations put on us by society as a whole, why put them on ourselves?

I personally love all relationships. Butch/butch femme/femme butch/femme ect.. (I think you get the point) relationships. I find that nothing is more adorable than seeing two butch women walking hand in hand. I love butches and find them sexy, so why wouldn't I love that dynamic?

Like I said I love all relationships and all people. I LOVE EVERYONE! Ok well some I love on a strictly platonic basis, like men. But I still love everyone.

Ok shutting up now.
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:47 AM   #40
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I live in a city, where lots of b/b, b/f, f/f, f/t, g/t, g/b and so on all date each other and hang out in different scenes. In fact I feel I'm doing a bit of a disservice as a lot of people I know have no interest in actually wearing a label, else they wear a rather 'shallow' label (as in, I have short hair therefore I call myself butch).

I think it's great! For myself I have dated a fantastic variety of women, so I was mortally offended once to join a b/f site only to read endless 'jokes' about how disgusting b/b was and how horny f/f was *vom*
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