Trans or Butch

[Ender]

I've been in this weird state in between trans male and butch female and was wondering if I could get some insight from those who are butch females.

I've been actively questioning for about 5-6 years now, and I've been always going back and forth between the two. The part of me that thinks I'm a trans male is that I express myself in a more masculine manner (however, butch women also do), I pack and bind, and would prefer to compress my chest and would like the option to go shirtless (though, who doesn't). I like male and neutral pronouns, and I am seen by the majority of people as male.

I'm not out to anyone, so I can't really ask someone to call me by my preferred name/pronouns, but I have been trying this online. I've always chose to present myself as male or masculine online (in games, forums, etc) and I was just wondering if this was common amongst other butch women.

There have also been times as a child where I've had thoughts about how I would go about telling people what happened to [given name] if I were to present as male and go by a male name. I also wondered, when I was 9-10, if other girls hated being girls also.

I don't know, I'm just really confused.

[Clyde]

Hey Ender - Of course, I can only speak for myself, so the usual disclaimers apply. I consider myself a "butch guy" which, to me, equates to a masculine spirit in a female body. If you're asking whether other people choose to present themselves as male or masculine online, you'd get a "yes" from me. That is one of the reasons I come to this site. Given most opportunities, I choose male or gender neutral ("they") pronouns. It usually makes me feel weird to be called by female terms, like "lady" or "dear", even when people don't mean anything by it.

I've considered whether transitioning was something I might do, but for me, for various reasons, I've landed on just being what I am. And again, speaking for me and not anyone else who might decide to get their feathers ruffled by that statement.

Your journey is your own, of course. But I can relate to where you're at, if that helps at all.

[Ender]

Originally Posted by Clyde

Hey Ender - Of course, I can only speak for myself, so the usual disclaimers apply. I consider myself a "butch guy" which, to me, equates to a masculine spirit in a female body. If you're asking whether other people choose to present themselves as male or masculine online, you'd get a "yes" from me. That is one of the reasons I come to this site. Given most opportunities, I choose male or gender neutral ("they") pronouns. It usually makes me feel weird to be called by female terms, like "lady" or "dear", even when people don't mean anything by it.

I've considered whether transitioning was something I might do, but for me, for various reasons, I've landed on just being what I am. And again, speaking for me and not anyone else who might decide to get their feathers ruffled by that statement.

Your journey is your own, of course. But I can relate to where you're at, if that helps at all.

That does help. Thank you.

[ardentfemme]

I don't mean to intrude, but I thought maybe I could share some resources that might be helpful.

Ivan Coyote writes a lot about occupying this liminal space between trans and butch. "I had already spent years feeling like I was perched with one foot on a trans-shaped rowboat and the other foot resting on a butch dock, balancing myself and my language and words and work in the space between them," they wrote in "Between the Boat and the Dock." (https://www.facebook.com/ThePrideChr...95113043929997).

Another piece by Coyote that might resonate with you is "Shouldn't I Feel Pretty?" (https://thewalrus.ca/shouldnt-i-feel-pretty/).

Lastly, I'm sure you've heard of (if not already read) the seminal Stone Butch Blues. It can be found here for free: http://www.lesliefeinberg.net/

I hope you get the advice and support you need. Also I hope you know there are many ways to be butch or trans or a combination of both, and they're all valid.

Best of luck to you on your journey.

[VintageFemme]

I imagine it must be very unsettling and confusing growing up feeling one way and looking another. I can say that I have only ever been with butches and one trans person but from my observations over the years, I have come to the conclusion that there are simply more than two genders. It is just not as black and white as male and female. And, not every butch is transgendered. I do believe that one day, science will show that there are in fact many genders. Embracing who you are and 'you doing you' is the best advice anyone can probably give but y'know what, aren't we fortunate that we live in a time that if it isn't right, science can fix nature's mistake.

(Sorry for chiming in on a butch conversation but I'm an old woman and have seen this struggle so often and sometimes just having someone else validate who we are can be enough to turn some things around. Best of luck.)

P.s. ardentfemme, I have this monster crush on Ivan Coyote! I love that you referenced him here. Nice.

[JDeere]

I do not see myself as butch female. Butch yes woman no. I prefer male pronouns. I teeter on the trans/butch spectrum and some folks can't understand it.

All this gender talk confuses me but i live in a black and white world, grew up in one as well and alot of this new fanagled terms/ labels or what not confuse me.

Just be yourself, thats the best advice i can give.

[Femminator]

Originally Posted by JDeere

I do not see myself as butch female. Butch yes woman no. I prefer male pronouns. I teeter on the trans/butch spectrum and some folks can't understand it.

All this gender talk confuses me but i live in a black and white world, grew up in one as well and alot of this new fanagled terms/ labels or what not confuse me.

Just be yourself, thats the best advice i can give.

Completely get it. My Partner is Non binary and is MOC as well. They like they/them, is getting top surgery, may take T, but that is all. Does not identify as male. There are lots of MOC Butches out there and some say they are trans and others butch. Mine too teeters on the Trans/Butch spectrum. I do not think it is uncommon actually.

[Femminator]

Originally Posted by JDeere

I do not see myself as butch female. Butch yes woman no. I prefer male pronouns. I teeter on the trans/butch spectrum and some folks can't understand it.

All this gender talk confuses me but i live in a black and white world, grew up in one as well and alot of this new fanagled terms/ labels or what not confuse me.

Just be yourself, thats the best advice i can give.

My partner is the same. They struggled with the trans/Butch spectrum and now via 2 yrs therapy have identified as a Non binary or Transmasculine Butch. They are certain they don't fit int he gender binary and only is having top surgery, maybe some T for voice. However, does not identify as Trans. It's been a journey for us to say the least! They also grew up with black and white labels and it's really been tough.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by Femminator

My partner is the same. They struggled with the trans/Butch spectrum and now via 2 yrs therapy have identified as a Non binary or Transmasculine Butch. They are certain they don't fit int he gender binary and only is having top surgery, maybe some T for voice. However, does not identify as Trans. It's been a journey for us to say the least! They also grew up with black and white labels and it's really been tough.

Awesome sauce. Im glad to.see im not alone on.my sentiment.

[Mel C.]

I don't consider myself to be on the trans part of the continuum. I'm a butch woman. I have packed, but I don't regularly. I have used chest compression shirts, but not regularly. I prefer male pronouns within the B-F community. I consider it an acknowledgement of my being butch. I don't present myself as male, but I don't correct people who refer to me using male pronouns. As a child, I used to play dress up in my brothers clothes. At times, I wished I was male. I'd rather have a chest than breasts. That being said, I have no desire to transition from female to male. Like I said, I'm a butch woman.

Helpful to know you aren't alone when you find yourself confused? You aren't alone, no matter where you are on the continuum. Like JDeere said, just be you.

[BullDog]

I am a Stone Butch, completely masculine and go by She. I will have chest surgery if I have the opportunity but do not view myself as male or wish to transition.

[Kosmo]

It is a journey for me. Never ending maybe. I've had top surgery. I've never experienced gender dysphoria. I think I'm coming to appreciate the feminine in me. That I'm more apt to describe myself lately as masculine leaning, but not male.

My internal view is basically, just me. Keeping it simple.

Butch is such a good word though. I am butch.

Great conversation.

[Stronghealer]

.

I am trans
I am butch
I am a dyke

.

[cathexis]

Must I feel exceptionally butch to feel
transgendered???