Difference between masculine and male identified?

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

And just because finding that "place of harmony" doesn't always land us in the same place, doesn't mean we don't travel a lot of the roads together.

Amen to that, Met. This is a huge statement and, in my opinion, is all that really needs to be said when people ask *those* questions....... Why would a man come to this site? If you don't get the "butch" thing then why not go to a lesbian site? Etc...

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I'd remind you that there are those that have called butch femme a trend, and also that non-butch- boi's, GQ, tombois, tomboys etc. or in general queer female bodied masculine "non-butch" people are not a "new" thing.

In the same sense that trans people always existed, but are now more in the media seemingly making them more in number... they are I believe just more visible and able to put a name to themselves and be out in who they are more easily and somewhat more safely.

I'll even put forth that many masculine females and women before this "trend" (which I call a movement even though yes these things get trend jumpers by default) ID'd as butch because there wasn't a choice, wasn't the visibility and thus information out their for them to put the correct "name" to the internal feeling.

I know quite a few who ID'd as butch previously are finally finding a place, they grew up taking the closest thing that fit even if itchy and not quite right. Personally I really struggled with butch ID for years, and avoided acknowledging what I'd felt for a long time... and to be upfront I haven't ID'd as "a" butch for a while, hence my lesser participation over time and finally change of my ID section.
I didn't talk about it publicly here because of e-x-a-c-t-l-y what you conveyed here, I'm painfully aware that this feeling is not all that uncommon in bf circles and I've been part of this community for a long time and I guess didn't want to lose it. But now I feel similar to chefhottie in finding a place in it and for me, and my own concerns about being accepted and so I've avoided like the plague expressing I'm not butch a noun. I would hope it wouldn't make a difference, but I also live in the real world.
Unfortunately my hand is forced here... as whether intended or not posts such as yours can create mis-information and judgments toward non-butch GQ, boi's, tomboys etc. etc. etc. and make it seem unwelcoming here.

But ironically I'm glad you said it, because come what may it's something that's been weighing on me for a long time.

It's not a threat to butch femme culture, it's simply a different "culture", other queer masculine female bodied cousins just being out and proud too. I don't know why we all can't just support each other without it always being seen as some kind of affront.

Metropolis

Originally Posted by Metropolis

Thanks Atlast, in the end we are just who we are eh. If we find ourselves here, we're here for a reason.

I may not identify as a butch, but I have and do identify with butch on many fronts, like I said cousins. I'm still a "masculine" female gender bender (no that's not my "ID") and femmes are still the yin to my yang.

I think the personal connections that brought us all here, no matter the personal feeling of identity, is where the "community" of it all comes from, and not in that we all ID the same. And just because finding that "place of harmony" doesn't always land us in the same place, doesn't mean we don't travel a lot of the roads together.

I'm not going to derail any further except to say I have no doubt about the inclusiveness the Jack and Medusa intend for this space, I know their good intentions personally and have faith in that.

Ok, I have a date with mo' coffee...
Metropolis

Hey there, Met. I am wondering if you are willing to share how it is that you do ID at this point?

Or is your point that you don't ID in any way at this point?

Please hear this question as coming from a place of desiring to learn the different ways that masculine folks identify and not an attempt to pigeonhole you (and also know that it comes from a place of support for however you do see yourself!).

[Jett]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Hey there, Met. I am wondering if you are willing to share how it is that you do ID at this point?

Or is your point that you don't ID in any way at this point?

Please hear this question as coming from a place of desiring to learn the different ways that masculine folks identify and not an attempt to pigeonhole you (and also know that it comes from a place of support for however you do see yourself!).

I'm queer, more specifically dyke, I'm a full grown motorcycle lovin' hardcore tomboy artist who is a female. A she that looks like a he that looks like a she... daddy's little ambiguity. I'm fluid and depending what light you see me in I can be handsome or beautiful. But above all else I'm a woman, a daughter, a sister, a friend, a lover, human and fallible.

I'm not trying to be dramatic or complicated... quite the opposite, it's that simple.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

Thanks Atlast, in the end we are just who we are eh. If we find ourselves here, we're here for a reason.

I may not identify as a butch, but I have and do identify with butch on many fronts, like I said cousins. I'm still a "masculine" female gender bender (no that's not my "ID") and femmes are still the yin to my yang.

I think the personal connections that brought us all here, no matter the personal feeling of identity, is where the "community" of it all comes from, and not in that we all ID the same. And just because finding that "place of harmony" doesn't always land us in the same place, doesn't mean we don't travel a lot of the roads together.

I'm not going to derail any further except to say I have no doubt about the inclusiveness the Jack and Medusa intend for this space, I know their good intentions personally and have faith in that.

Ok, I have a date with mo' coffee...
Metropolis

Yeppers... very much a community based journey for me. Also, what Thinker brings up about the concept of butch in this all rings true. And I have been really fortunate in meeting and getting to know quite of few here on the same road and have landed at different intersections and our harmony is better than any barber shop quartet! Never off-key, just a different tempo at times.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I'm queer, more specifically dyke, I'm a full grown motorcycle lovin' hardcore tomboy artist who is a female. A she that looks like a he that looks like a she... daddy's little ambiguity. I'm fluid and depending what light you see me in I can be handsome or beautiful. But above all else I'm a woman, a daughter, a sister, a friend, a lover, human and fallible.

I'm not trying to be dramatic or complicated... quite the opposite, it's that simple.

[AtLast]

The gender-blended female person that I have read some about most fits for me if I have to have a gender specific fit- which I don't really feel necessary. I have never felt what some GBF's feel about questioning being more of a man, but certainly know this is true for some. Feeling more woman than man (we all have both within us bio-physiologically) is at the core for me with an appreciation of the masculinity I carry that for me, stems from the female.

LOL... but trying to wear an exact identification of gender isn't really how I navigate in the world even though I do feel fully female.

An individual of any genetic sex may self-identify as fully female, having always considered herself to be a woman or girl, or as a female with maleness, in which current identification is as a woman, but with significant questioning regarding being more of a man (or boy) at least some time in life, or as a gender-blended female person, in which the individual perceives herself to be in some significant way both a woman and a man, although more woman than man. http://www.iiav.nl/ezines/web/IJT/97-03/numbers/symposion/ijtc0102.htm#An individually-based gender continuum

What I do feel is an appreciation for gender theory because it has room for all of the various ways so many of us have felt in terms of femininity and masculinity, masculine and feminine. However, I still feel so many of the traditional interpretations around me of what a man/masculinity or a woman/feminity is (or should be) and this is disheartening at times. I guess I prefer the blend and fluidity about present day gender identification, not the rigidity that seems to continue to permeate and control our lives. I think we are on the road to change this!

[SelfMadeMan]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I'm queer, more specifically dyke, I'm a full grown motorcycle lovin' hardcore tomboy artist who is a female. A she that looks like a he that looks like a she... daddy's little ambiguity. I'm fluid and depending what light you see me in I can be handsome or beautiful. But above all else I'm a woman, a daughter, a sister, a friend, a lover, human and fallible.

I'm not trying to be dramatic or complicated... quite the opposite, it's that simple.

LOVE this! Thanks for sharing!

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I'm queer, more specifically dyke, I'm a full grown motorcycle lovin' hardcore tomboy artist who is a female. A she that looks like a he that looks like a she... daddy's little ambiguity. I'm fluid and depending what light you see me in I can be handsome or beautiful. But above all else I'm a woman, a daughter, a sister, a friend, a lover, human and fallible.

I'm not trying to be dramatic or complicated... quite the opposite, it's that simple.

I love this!