Did a civil war just start?

[WheatToast]

If a certain social media spot (that rhymes with SpaceLook) is any indication, the addition of Trump sympathizer Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court marks the third and final segment of the Federal Government to be invaded by a man or men in a position to let Trump's many crimes* go unpunished.
If the number of protesters and arrests are any indication, this Supreme Court scam could be the last straw for Democrats, liberals and progressives going high when they go low.
I spent a good chunk of the evening swatting at MAGA-maniacs and encouraging my more temperate friends to start using the F word with gusto.
I may not own a gun, but I can talk so much smack, some of them might want to shoot themselves.


*please don't say he's innocent until proven guilty--his lawyer Michael Cohen already confessed to felony campaign finance violations (using campaign funds to pay off Trump's humps), thus making Trump an unindicted co-conspirator. No quibbling, please.

[tantalizingfemme]

Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.

[C0LLETTE]

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.

Ever think that a "Civil War" can't be won without every recruit you can get ...whenever they join.
Isn't it possible to support those who have long fought, "..anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American, an immigrant, transgender, etc.", without taking a back handed slap at those whose eyes are now being opened.

OK, they weren't there in force before but what exactly is the strategic benefit of bitterly reminding them now that they are energizing.

Want to win a war? Stop with the "holier than thou" crap and grab every woman that wants to stand, Every one has their reasons for engaging and as long as they do, who are you to make them "lessers".

[C0LLETTE]

BTW...I'm not entirely sure this is a "Civil War" or ever was, but it is a
catchy phrase.
Meaningful deadly skirmishes, yes; war, not yet and maybe never if minorities don't figure out how to welcome and fight together and forgive each other past failings.

[SaltyButch]

In reading the posts I don't think anyone is trying to make someone feel "less than" merely pointing out the long fought struggle. Yes it's important that anyone who wants to salvage any shred of humanity be galvanized,we would be better served by motivating rather than immobilizing people by our words. It is in fact the ever present criticism of one's opinion which thwarts others from being spoken.

A Civil war in my opinion is brewing if not already here because the mere existence of any civility has been lost between the People and their government. I as a Canadian keep a watchful eye because the permeation of the hate is seeping across our borders and I'm not sure if we are being as mindful as we should be.

[WheatToast]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

BTW...I'm not entirely sure this is a "Civil War" or ever was, but it is a
catchy phrase.
Meaningful deadly skirmishes, yes; war, not yet and maybe never if minorities don't figure out how to welcome and fight together and forgive each other past failings.

It was a phrase, nothing more. I was up till the wee hours on another site, totally crushed over the judicial branch of the Federal government falling victim to the addition of yet another trump acolyte/enabler.
Now all three branches have been corrupted. It's upsetting.
But not everything I write is meant to be taken literally. I somehow doubt we'll be drafted into a civil war. I mean, really?
And I fail to see how this issue has been categorized as primarily a minority issue.
It is an issue about a corrupt president who had committed countless felonies across the board, and possibly having a stooge on the Supreme Court poised to let him go scot free on all counts, yes, even the minority immigration crimes.
But I happen to think Trump's probable conspiracy with Russia to steal the election takes priority over all the other crimes.

[WheatToast]

This "civil war" situation started as an issue about a corrupt president who has committed countless felonies across the board, and him possibly having a stooge on the Supreme Court poised to let him go scot free on all counts-- yes, even the heartless minority immigration crimes of separating babies from their mamas and housing toddlers in chain link cages, like dogs.
That's just one more case that sucks, but you have to remember, he does some new horrid thing almost daily and it's hard to keep up, much less keep them triaged in the midst of yesterday's tidal wave of the worst news in years.
The tidal wave was him now having stooges in every branch of the Federal Government, and knowing he may never have to pay for anything he's done.

I happen to think Trump's probable conspiracy with Russia to steal the election takes priority over all the other crimes, because democracy as we know it may be ending as a result.
That feels more urgent to me right now than anything else, and I did not like the immediate implication(s) that I was being callous and cold and possibly "too white" toward the issue of immigrant babies held in cages without their parents. That was a fucking stretch, considering.

( Intenta saber de qué estás hablando antes de saltar a la crítica)

I'm allowed to prioritize my biggest concerns first, but I felt jumped the moment I posted. I don't mean I felt defensive--I mean I felt jumped, as in "contempt prior to investigation."

What kind of way is that to treat a shook up ally?

It seems like that son of a bitch Trump wants to cripple our economy, harpoon our relationships with allies, kill NATO and NAFDA, allow Kim Jong Un to make an ass of him, then watching Trump plan another little slumber party with Putin this fall without the state department knowing a thing about it.
But I really don't feel like sword fighting about that which I think is the most worrysome aspect of this latest development, versus what others may think.
Who was keeping anyone from writing their own version? Not I.

I wanted to vent my worries and perhaps find a gentle soul who could tell me everything was going to be all right even if they had to fib a little.

But I believe I could have found more tenderness and understanding from reptiles rather than some of the gun jumpers who pounced too soon.
Yes, I may be raw and especially thin skinned after being up almost all night reading about this latest nightmare and worrying myself sick over it.
So--
Who wants to pile on next?
How about a stern lecture about my reaction to feeling jumped?

Jeeze.

[kittygrrl]

Originally Posted by WheatToast

This "civil war" situation started as an issue about a corrupt president who has committed countless felonies across the board, and him possibly having a stooge on the Supreme Court poised to let him go scot free on all counts-- yes, even the heartless minority immigration crimes of separating babies from their mamas and housing toddlers in chain link cages, like dogs.
That's just one more case that sucks, but you have to remember, he does some new horrid thing almost daily and it's hard to keep up, much less keep them triaged in the midst of yesterday's tidal wave of the worst news in years.
The tidal wave was him now having stooges in every branch of the Federal Government, and knowing he may never have to pay for anything he's done.

I happen to think Trump's probable conspiracy with Russia to steal the election takes priority over all the other crimes, because democracy as we know it may be ending as a result.
That feels more urgent to me right now than anything else, and I did not like the immediate implication(s) that I was being callous and cold and possibly "too white" toward the issue of immigrant babies held in cages without their parents. That was a fucking stretch, considering.

( Intenta saber de qué estás hablando antes de saltar a la crítica)

I'm allowed to prioritize my biggest concerns first, but I felt jumped the moment I posted. I don't mean I felt defensive--I mean I felt jumped, as in "contempt prior to investigation."

What kind of way is that to treat a shook up ally?

It seems like that son of a bitch Trump wants to cripple our economy, harpoon our relationships with allies, kill NATO and NAFDA, allow Kim Jong Un to make an ass of him, then watching Trump plan another little slumber party with Putin this fall without the state department knowing a thing about it.
But I really don't feel like sword fighting about that which I think is the most worrysome aspect of this latest development, versus what others may think.
Who was keeping anyone from writing their own version? Not I.

I wanted to vent my worries and perhaps find a gentle soul who could tell me everything was going to be all right even if they had to fib a little.

But I believe I could have found more tenderness and understanding from reptiles rather than some of the gun jumpers who pounced too soon.
Yes, I may be raw and especially thin skinned after being up almost all night reading about this latest nightmare and worrying myself sick over it.
So--
Who wants to pile on next?
How about a stern lecture about my reaction to feeling jumped?

Jeeze.

Toast, sorry if you felt disrespected or ignored. I think people saw your post and processed it according to their own experience, so shared how they see the world currently - rather then deliberating engaging in being negative to you personally. I think you have a mad (ie, mad skills) intellect and you have a unique and open way of sharing..thank you!

[Lyte]

I hate when the quote feature doesn't work right... so hit and miss.

To this... WheatToast

I happen to think Trump's probable conspiracy with Russia to steal the election takes priority over all the other crimes, because democracy as we know it may be ending as a result. That feels more urgent to me right now than anything else, and I did not like the immediate implication(s) that I was being callous and cold and possibly "too white" toward the issue of immigrant babies held in cages without their parents. That was a fucking stretch, considering.

I totally agree. Whatever the fuck is going on in DC ... with Trump and his monkeys ... reaches into every crack and crevice of everyone's life. Addressing oppression, bigotry, inequality, etc... are of paramount importance but we'll hardly be able to address those if our economy... our security ... our cohesion as a nation ... etc... etc... are in the friggin' toilet. Figuratively speaking ... how can one bring peace and solidarity to members of a household when the house is literally collapsing all around them?

[tantalizingfemme]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Ever think that a "Civil War" can't be won without every recruit you can get ...whenever they join.
Isn't it possible to support those who have long fought, "..anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American, an immigrant, transgender, etc.", without taking a back handed slap at those whose eyes are now being opened.

OK, they weren't there in force before but what exactly is the strategic benefit of bitterly reminding them now that they are energizing.

Want to win a war? Stop with the "holier than thou" crap and grab every woman that wants to stand, Every one has their reasons for engaging and as long as they do, who are you to make them "lessers".

Yeah, not attacking anyone. Merely pointing out this is nothing new. Am I happy white women are energized? Of course, I am one of them.

Glad that is all you got from what I wrote. The fact that your response was to automatically be defensive is interesting.

[WheatToast]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Ever think that a "Civil War" can't be won without every recruit you can get ...whenever they join.
Isn't it possible to support those who have long fought, "..anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American, an immigrant, transgender, etc.", without taking a back handed slap at those whose eyes are now being opened.

Want to win a war? Stop with the "holier than thou" crap and grab every woman that wants to stand, Every one has their reasons for engaging and as long as they do, who are you to make them "lessers".

Nothing rude about that "holier than thou" comment, ey? If you are this quick to condemn before you know even a sliver of the whole story, can we assume you also are a 'premature congratulator'?

[kittygrrl]

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.

i tend to agree, independant moderate/liberal women outnumber white males and conservative women base, but getting them energized enough to vote has always been the problem. the d.c. senate/representatives will never get anywhere playing"fair"..the majority just eats their lunch everytime..they look weak and mostly, no spine either.

[WheatToast]

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.

I hope you aren't assuming I am a 100% white woman.
It's Wheat toast, not white toast.

[tantalizingfemme]

Originally Posted by WheatToast

I hope you aren't assuming I am a 100% white woman.
It's Wheat toast, not white toast.

I never make assumptions about anyone. Ever. I hope you weren't assuming that I was.

[Orema]

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.

I don't know how to thank you enough for this posting, tantalizingfemme.

I can barely speak about these things without literally choking up—the words get stuck in my throat and I become defensive.

I usually don't discuss these subjects with anyone outside my circle of friends. This isn't unusual with Black women my age—at least among those I know. It's easy for us to speak among each other, but not with those outside our circle because we're often accused of being divisive, petty, unsupporting, the list goes on ... and it's just not worth the headaches and heartaches we face. And no, I feel no responsibility to create any bridges.

So thank you for expressing something that I cannot or will not discuss. You get it.

Hoping one day we meet so I can thank you in person.

[C0LLETTE]

Gosh, I need a favour. Would someone please show me where WheatToast got "jumped on".
This is absurd. Want attention? Just write a vague indefinite post. Get indignant when people just don't get you and make "assumptions" about you ( as if they had some clear options based on a clearly stated thesis and a whole bunch of "knowing-you-for-years" details; then get all puffy 'cause few , if any "got it". The key is to write clearly so that people do "get you". It's not the grammar, it's the " which sentence indicates the point and mentions the "Russians" thing.

[kittygrrl]

according to pundits..the liberal base is energized...i hope so!

[Lyte]

I've bolded the bit to which I'm responding.

The irony here is... and I'm not disagreeing with you entirely... is that while "white women" might be a subset of an oppressed group, there's large chunk of white women who have (quite happily!) tethered themselves to men... to Trump... to the "oppressors" ... for lack of a better term. I don't know how else we can explain Collins' vote and/or the continued support for these morons by women of all shades ... except to suggest that they must be feeling a little ... better you than me!

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.

[tantalizingfemme]

Originally Posted by Lyte

I've bolded the bit to which I'm responding.

The irony here is... and I'm not disagreeing with you entirely... is that while "white women" might be a subset of an oppressed group, there's large chunk of white women who have (quite happily!) tethered themselves to men... to Trump... to the "oppressors" ... for lack of a better term. I don't know how else we can explain Collins' vote and/or the continued support for these morons by women of all shades ... except to suggest that they must be feeling a little ... better you than me!

I initially wasn't going to respond to this because having to explain once again in my life that no where did I say "all" is exhausting, as I already have to do this when I am confronted with not "all" men. (Because clearly I am not smart or aware enough to recognize that not everyone gets lumped into one category because of a few.) <insert eyeroll> But I am responding because I don't appreciate your assumption.

And so, after what I wrote in this thread, and have written in other political threads we both are involved in, you come here and infer that I am unaware that white women like Susan Collins and her ilk exist. Actually you don't infer, you tell me I am unaware by pointing out to me that "there's large chunk of white women who have (quite happily!) tethered themselves to men... to Trump... to the "oppressors" ... for lack of a better term" as if I had no idea. It's insulting.

I am glad there are other people who read what I wrote and got it.

[Martina]

I don't even understand this thread. Seriously. What is it about?