03-14-2019, 12:15 PM | #301 |
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The Best Candidate for ...
I wonder whether those (on this site) who would like to see someone beat Trump are aware that the prospective Dem candidate must appeal to the average American (who may have voted for Trump in the past election), and not necessarily appeal to those here who are not at all the same as the average American ... said with the greatest respect, and obviously someone who I myself might not like either as the one who the Dems choose to run against Trump.
In our words, in this small little oasis, our povs may be counterproductive in terms of supporting the Dems winning. |
03-14-2019, 12:22 PM | #302 | |
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03-14-2019, 12:43 PM | #303 | |
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Beto's arm movements
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I watched the same coffee room intro and Q&A in Iowa as others did earlier today, and he did say something, actually quite a lot - about tariffs, about climate change, about teachers' salaries, even about accepting the "idea" of the new green deal, etc. |
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03-14-2019, 01:21 PM | #304 | |
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03-14-2019, 02:13 PM | #305 | |
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You are way off in your patronizing comments and lack of understanding of what I AM SAYING. So, go bother someone else with your comments about OUR politics and my opinion. |
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03-15-2019, 05:54 AM | #306 | |
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One of my favorite authors, Cory Doctorow has written about "post-scarcity economies" and half-jokingly about "fully automated luxury space communism." He has also written about reputation economies. Basically the principle is that increasing automation means scarcity will eventually be able to disappear, and won't continue to rule the economy unless we artificially maintain it (likely) This is in line with AOC's comments the other day about how odd it is that we should have to fear automation. As far as capitalism goes, i was pretty influenced by Max Weber, who said that the roots of capitalism lie in Judeo-Christian monotheism, and that it's spread was enabled by the Protestant Reformation and Calvinism (i know for a fact i ranted about this in the 2016 thread, as a lot of how Trump won has its roots in Calvinist ideas of wealth.) Definitely not an inherent human impulse. Unfortunately, the lesser of two evils is the best we can hope for. Humanity has a "long tail." There will always be a broad spectrum of thought and only the middling ground is likely to achieve the critical mass that changes thought into action. We need extreme action, but the mainstream has the numbers. If we dismiss everyone to the right of Bernie, we die. We can't reject "the lesser of two evils." We have to colonize it. This is why figures like Bernie and AOC are so important-- they are mainstreaming what was once an extreme, and making the lesser of two evils marginally less evil. This is also why the condescension and aggression that leftists have sometimes expressed is so damaging. Every time we sneer at the centrists we shoot ourselves in the foot. The right wing calls all non-right-wingers baby killers, says we are delusional and that our views are evidence of a mental disorder, and we feel like that makes it ok to police everybody's wokeness and gatekeep "woke" status against anyone of insufficient ideological purity. AOC was widely quoted by the right-wing press for her comments at SXSW where she said: “Stop trying to win people over, stop trying to enter a conversation thinking that you’re going to, like, ‘aha’ them into changing their minds. And so, I think, that, you know, we’ve kind of lost the art of conversation. So when I enter a conversation with someone I actually try to learn more about where they’re coming from, like I try — I actually use it as an experience to — like, let’s say, I’m talking to someone who’s saying something really racist and they don’t even realize that they’re saying something really racist, I — I asked some questions because I’m interested, I’m fascinated by that. How does that work, you know?”"What are you trying to get out of this conversation?" Indeed. We need to remember that we are fighting to survive and the right wing is not. We can't afford the self-indulgence that they can.
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03-15-2019, 06:28 AM | #307 | |
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Pro-life feminists are the lesser of two evils compared to Operation Rescue, and they do not have a pro-life legislative or judicial agenda. They are not a threat to us, but we decided we did not need their support.
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03-15-2019, 06:59 AM | #308 |
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I can't delude myself that mainstream Dems, liberals, are not as implicated in the systems that keep us hurling toward the precipice as Conservatives are.
I absolutely despise the neo-liberal politics of Clinton and Obama. The college admissions scandal is causing people everywhere to laugh at the meritocracy bullshit they've been hearing for so long. Not only did liberals undermine unions, they allowed corporations to destroy industry. Jobs were not just exported when factories relocated, Dems, along with Republicans, applauded while the Bain Capitols of this world tore apart viable businesses and sold them for parts for short term profit. Cannibalizing industry left them awash in cash which they invested in the financial instruments that collapsed our economy in 08. Worker retraining programs were completely half assed and ineffective while Democrats endlessly endlessly blamed working people for not adjusting to the new global economy. Dems have been the kings of the meritocracy bullshit. Then the unregulated and unethical financial industry took off because of the bound to fail mortgage backed securities. Corporations and the very rich had an even more difficult time finding places to put their wealth. So they tempted countries like Greece and Spain to take huge investments which could never be repaid. Everyone knew this, but it was the fucking establishment, like the neo-liberal World Bank, enabling it all. After the crash, they forced austerity onto a number of countries. Literally tens of thousands of Greek children are now brain damaged from poor nutrition because of the worst years of austerity. Every bullshit thing that was supposed to help working people in the US survive the depredations of the unregulated economy that Reagan and Clinton let loose on us was a lie. Almost no one was helped by Obama's programs to help people during the mortgage crisis. They didn't even spend the money initially allocated. Almost no one has been helped by the student debt forgiveness programs. And as I said, the retraining programs of the previous generation didn't make the tiniest dent. And now they have come after public pensions and social security. The effort to destroy public employee unions and pilfer our pensions has been backed by Clintonite meritocracy liberals like Bill Gates. On the issues that have led us to this place, where populism is appealing to people around the world, liberals are as guilty as conservatives. And voters know it. They know they've been lied to. The only thing that can combat fascist populism is the truth that comes from left-leaning populists like Bernie.
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03-15-2019, 11:01 AM | #309 |
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I believe that the liberal centre should and must hold. Without it we collapse into a chaotic gaping vacuum and the apocalyptic end that the extremes on both the Left and the Right seem so gleefully and confidently to predict becomes our fate.
The Centre IS Populst. That is where most of us are... in the middle, not wanting to be thrown into the flames of other people's extreme political and religious philosophies...the" Far This " and the " Far That ". The centre is a relative place, not fixed and it does move ( albeit slowly )to reasonable, agreeable positions. I believe that the "liberal centre" is the well-spring of human and humane sanity.
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03-15-2019, 11:58 AM | #310 | |
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A Clinton-era centrist Democrat explains why it’s time to give democratic socialists a chance
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ft-brad-delong Quote:
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03-15-2019, 12:08 PM | #311 | |
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From a Washington Post editorial commenting on the above interview:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.60fd189140fd Quote:
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03-16-2019, 02:02 AM | #312 |
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So, simply put, the current political clime is fulfilling the prophesy prevalent in the 1980s, a time of recession and great fear as we had hostages held in Iran. Analysis of the minor political partys' results of 1980 is quite intriguing. Thus was my grad thesis in Marxist Studies/Political Philosophy.
On the Far Left were CP-USA, various Trotskyist parties, moving toward the top of a large circle was the Green Party moving to Dems with Jimmy Carter and across to Reps with Ronald Reagan. As the circle moves right and down one finds Lyndon LaRouche then David Duke. As the circle nears the very bottom, the Libertarian Party meets the right wing Anarchists-followed by the left Anarchists. This is where the circle meets. The Right Wing was overwhelmingly extremist with KKK and conspiracy theorists like Lyndon LaRouche followed by the American Nazi Party with Right wing Anarchists backed up to the Left Anarchists with political positions almost imperceptibly different. Then up the curve were the Trotskyists and Stalinist Communist Parties. The parties formed a political circle that comes together rather than the traditional line view of the political spectrum. Coming election, it will be interesting and informative to look at the percentages these small "Alt-Right" and Libertarian. We could get a glimpse of what might be in store.
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03-16-2019, 07:06 AM | #313 | |
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I just feel like capitalism is totally fine when it comes to discretionary consumption items, but it never should have been applied to staple items, justice, health, education, warfighting, or politics. And it seems willfully obtuse to insist capitalism has to be all or nothing. To insist that if we take profit out of life-or-death matters then the next thing you know we'll all have matching government haircuts and uniform scrubs, is disingenuous to the extreme, but we fall all over ourselves trying to disprove it.. The "mistake" of the mainstream dems (mistake in quotes because it is applied with the benefit of the doubt) was in believing that conservatives actually wanted the outcomes they claimed to want. Dems believed conservatives would work with them if they could get to a result that lay somewhere within the scope of what they could find tolerable. This was never going to be the case, as conservatives don't actually want any of the things they talk about. They just want wealth and power. So dems compromised themselves making a good faith argument to a bad faith premise. As i said, "mistake" gives the benefit of the doubt. Wealthy people are wealthy people first and foremost. To me it seems like the past 30 years have been "capitalism with patriarchy and white supremacy" vs "capitalism with ladies." "Capitalism with ladies" is the lesser of two evils, by far (freedom from forced birth is still a pretty good deal), but neither party wants equality.
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03-16-2019, 01:49 PM | #314 |
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He got his 65,000. He'll be debating. A historic day.
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03-17-2019, 12:33 AM | #315 |
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03-17-2019, 04:09 AM | #316 |
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And didn't I read that Jeb Bush is calling for Republicans to run? That would stir things up. I don't think it will happen. The base still really loves Trump.
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03-17-2019, 07:42 AM | #317 |
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Biden saying he has the most progressive record of anyone running --
I don't dislike him, but LOL. Nobody wants the middle. Lol.
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03-17-2019, 09:09 AM | #318 |
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He is getting a lot of attention bc of the story about him learning Norwegian so he could finish a novel series in which only the first book had been translated, and for his response to Christchurch.
Honestly, we could do soooo much worse than nominating Mayor Pete. He's inexperienced, but he also has very little baggage. And they take half of your white card when you come out, so he still ticks the diversity box that so many centrist dems are insisting on. And he honestly seems very thoughtful and he has that grace that gay people sometimes get when everybody disappoints you, early on, but you decide to love them anyway.
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03-17-2019, 09:53 AM | #319 |
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He does not seem to have a listening bone in his body. I just don't feel like you can tell him anything. He has that white-dude self-assurance that is completely certain that he has more to tell you than you could possibly tell him.
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03-17-2019, 06:35 PM | #320 |
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i like the middle..you stay warm and have a little of each..
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