Femme Led Relationships and Trans/Butch/Femme Bottoms

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Isadora

D once said to me, "Ma'am, I am the butch of your dreams and the bottom of your fantasies." Hy was both and wonderful.

OMG that would melt me. I got goose bumps just reading it.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

. Now don't get me wrong I can reciprocate fucking her but I will never be topping her. Make sense? Has switching ever been a struggle in your D/g dynamic?

Do me, this way NOW! lol- yes I understand. You exist to please her at any capacity. Perfect sense.

[Spirit Dancer]

weatherboi
What a wonderful idea for a thread and topic to enlighten, such wonderful responses thus far. In my journey I currently am femme top, who has always had an Alpha Energy and learned that while trying to be a submissive to a wonderful Syr. He taught me many lesson during the time we shared. The most important one never let anyone take away who you are, the gift of energy that you and your MS share is an amazing soul dance of reflective energy, those who don't understand, judge or belittle that energetic dance simply are missing a beautiful soul connection.
In my life I've walked away from friendships that judged me, now although I'm an Alpha Femme and Top, my relationship now is with my Syr. Do I submit to Hym yes in everyway but that is how we started our Soul Energy and I evolved into what was already in me. Our relationship now is Hy is still my Syr, and allows my Alpha Energy into our relationship. Hy isn't a switch, but with Syr, I guess I'm the switch. Together we nourish each other and the energy we share. It can be complex, but that's for another thread.

[WingsOnFire]

Originally Posted by Sachita

Do me, this way NOW! lol- yes I understand. You exist to please her at any capacity. Perfect sense.

Oh yes... the fact that a submissive may participate in the act of intercourse does not in any way change the roles they play in their relationship.... it just expresses the fact that the submissive strives to please his/her Mistress and does exactly as he/her is told. yummy...

[DamonK]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlueEyes

Oh yes... the fact that a submissive may participate in the act of intercourse does not in any way change the roles they play in their relationship.... it just expresses the fact that the submissive strives to please his/her Mistress and does exactly as he/her is told. yummy...

You wouldn't know anything about this, would you?

J

[adorable]

Thanks for starting this thread weatherboi. I started to post yesterday and stopped. I try to stay out of ID type threads due to the level of nastiness that normally results from them. Who we all are is complicated. There is nothing wrong with being just who you are and how you are - even if it makes sense only to you. What I have seen is that people are quick to say "YOU can't be that way because that doesn't work in MY head." lol. As if, how I am somehow makes them something else. Or the way that it works in my head means that I am trying to somehow negate how they feel even though I am talking about what works for ME. MY TRUTH. It doesn't belong to anyone else. I love it though when people say "No, you are wrong." Really? Why? What makes them right? Apparently, they think so - that makes it true.

Those things that are hot for us, our kinks and perversions are very personal and I think, they should be celebrated. I do now consider myself a submissive - that acknowledgement and understanding seemed to take FOREVER for me. I did consider it weak - although I wanted the exact same things as I do now, I called it something else before - anything but submissive. It was hard for me to understand the power exchange and the powerful stance of submitting. That I wasn't submitting to someone who was better then me somehow - that is where my head took it. (My ego hates that line of thinking.) I am a strong personality. I run things for a living. I had a million things that I thought meant that I was not a submissive or would make a horrible submissive. lol. I asked a ton of questions, I read a lot, I talked to other submissives and dom(me)s. Now I GET IT. Finally. And some people may still not consider me to be a submissive. What matters to me is that I do (and -->HE does. lol) I don't need the world to get it.

Submissive - the word - has the perception of weakness associated with it by society. Dominance is rewarded. Being on the bottom, we have been taught, doesn't seem quite so successful as being on the top of - well anything. What I wanted was to be submissive without the negative societal implications that I was somehow weaker for it.

I bottom ONLY to masculine male IDs and I top ONLY to feminine female IDs. It is very specific and about extremes for me. And it's not enough for them to have the right ID, they have to have the right look, attitude and level of disturbed-ness that works for me too. Now that may seem outwardly to be straightforward misogyny. It's not that I see male as more powerful and women as weaker in day to day life - but how I want to fuck and be fucked has very little with day to day life. It does have everything to do with perversion, my idea of hotness, a fucked up childhood and the twisted way that my mind works. Some people get off on the opposite, or something in between or riding a life size my little pony around the house. Somethings work and somethings just don't for each of us.

I think we can all agree though that having a life size my little pony is hot.

Society in general accepts my outward appearance more readily than others, in the same way that people just "get" (even though they have no idea about the REAL reason for why) that I want to be topped by a male ID. They don't question my desire for that in the same way they would you for wanting to be topped by a femme. I've heard people say a real butch doesn't_____ !! (Just fill in anything like a mad lib - just about every verb works.) Hearing that shit is like nails on a chalkboard for me. Like some people refer to their partner as "my old lady." Ugh. Welcome to 2010 folks....

There is so much more I'd like to say but now it would head off into the butch femme thing for me - which NEVER EVER works - so I will stop. Great thread!

[Chancie]

I am so lucky to be blessed with my boy, my beautiful handsome Pete.

[WingsOnFire]

Originally Posted by Sachita

I think this is so cool and so sexually/spiritually evolved. Understanding the aspects of yourself, defining them, giving them complete identities and compartments within yourself. Then finding one who loves you, trust, etc that supports allowing that "person" to emerge, play/explore and realize its just one aspect of you.

I think for me I need one who is naturally submissive most of the time, however I am also ok with hym/her developing other aspects when the need arrives.

{{{{Sachita}}}} Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, your emotions, your desires. You definitely do not need to settle for less than what you need and desire. It will not make you happy.

It is so interesting that in our relationship I fit the role of the submissive you describe... yet I feel COMPLETELY in control when I am Mistress. It is wonderful that you are able and willing to allow your submissive to develop other aspects of themselves should they desire to do so... That is exactly how my Daddy became my Daddy and now my Sir...

To suppress a persons needs and desires to mold to your own needs and desires is to stifle that persons emotional growth. I know first hand the beauty of allowing a person to be exactly who they are. I am glad you have stood up for yourself and not settled for less than who you are.

Becca

[Toughy]

your welcome weatherboi

Let me explain what I mean by 'the bottom runs the fuck'. In the kink world we negotiate what is going to happen. Boundaries are set about what is and is not acceptable for the bottom/sub and the Top/Dom/Domme. The bottom sets her/hys/his boundaries and the Top is obliged to respect them. The bottom gets a safeword. That safeword can end the scene. The power to end the scene is in the hands of the bottom....the bottom runs the fuck in that sense. (Yes as a Top I have ended scenes because I thought the bottom was not capable because of the headsapce she/he was in.)

The above staterment is a generality. Yes, there are D/s M/s relationships that have negotiated no safe word. The key here is in the negotiation part. All the M/s D/s relationships I know of also have a set time to sit down and renegotiate the contract. Again power is in the hands of the bottom.

Once all that is done........well then the Top takes over and runs the scene/fuck.

Hope that makes sense and clarifies what I mean.

edited to add: I am mystified, sometimes, at how some folks just don't want to see the power inherent in being a bottom/sub.....

[weatherboi]

great post thanks!

Originally Posted by waxnrope

Thank you for the thread, weatherboi, and for all the deeply considered replies.
Thanks waxnrope for your valued input. I look forward to hearing more from you.

In my enigmatic fashion, I consider myself primarily an OFOS stone butch Top... yet I continue the process of tapping into the place/s of desire, curiosity, and the muddied waters of my actuality. Through fantasy and exploration, I discover, for myself, how my positioning (LOL) bends, so to speak.
I get it, no pun intended. Funny. For me it came down to total reality. I was looking to be owned, so before throwing myself into the waters I had to spend some time evaluating what was going to work for me. I am not privy to choosing positions.

I "run the show" ... except when my partner's imagination exceeds my own and seduces me with prospects of tantalizing pleasures. But only (at this time ...) IF done in a way that she remains "feminine." So, for now (cause who knows how I will think later!) I have managed to leave the door open for possibilities.

i am ok with not running the show. i know the show will be exactly what my Ms decides i need. now i am ok with my Ms and her masculine energy. it is not like she dresses like buck from the united states of tara or she touches me in some feminizing way...it is energy.

If I borrow from the French philosophical concept of the navette, or shuttle, Metaphorically, I have come to realize that this little vessel, known as my self, sometimes takes off without a specific landing point. It/I might have a destination in mind, but the current, the winds, the vegetation on another shore draws attention. This direction change might occur because my femme sub has a marvelous bit of creative imagery and imagination. And so I alter my course, to investigate - with her. Hopefully for both to enjoy. I will remain primarily a Top ... but there is much space to explore between the mountain and the sea ... I love the vastness of possibilities.

[Liam]

Perhaps you could clarify something for me, I'm confused about the derision you experience. Are the guilty parties primarily outside of the leather/bdsm community? Or have things changed? I had to serve as a bottom, before I could call myself a top, a practice which made sound sense to me, one of the many reasons being, to impress upon me, that a bottom is never less than.

[weatherboi]

This post was very nice. You seem like you would be a kind femdom.

Originally Posted by Sachita

ok, :::::deep breath:::: I am at a crossroads in my life and having just turned 52 (lol- I know I don't look it!) I am fearless. Must be the gray hair!

I've thought about this a lot lately. A very brief synopsis is I began my femdom journey over 20 years ago. It was inspired by my spirituality... the many faces of the Goddess and feminine power. I refused to adopt societies feminine roles and ideals. I am a natural alpha femme. It's part of my essence. Sexuality was magic to me. When I first discovered BDSM my heart leaped. There was something there. I could feel it and that began a very long journey, many paths and ultimately living the lifestyle 24/7. My world was magnificent and animated. People would come to home and thought they walked into another world. I felt adored and worshiped but after a time i wanted more. I was attracted to butch energy, masculine and yet submissive. It was so hard to find the right dynamic and I often settled. In fact I stepped out of my femdom world completely and dated no one for maybe 4 years. When I decided to date I found BF and explored. I wasn't falling for this pseudo masculinity I saw in some butches. I see right through that shit. At the same time I was striving for some kind of balance. I had a few, very few relationships with transgendered people and struggled because I am naturally dominant and strong. They were constantly challenged by this and fought me tooth and nail. I grew sick of being called a dominatrix or mock me "Yes Goddess" every time i stood up or had an opinion.

this seems to be a common frustrating denominator amoungst many Femme Masters/Dommes/Slaves. I think talking about it is good.

My best day is to wake up, have coffee served, feel loved and truly adored. When one truly does exist to please me. It's not my ego it's my essence and it can't be just anyone looking to appease me. The dynamic is only presence when one thrives on serving me. I project, they receive and together we make magic. They long to relinquish control, it completes them and I long to feed on what they give me. It is the ultimate act of strength to step outside consensus morality and relinquish control to a powerful woman. It is an enhancement to your identity and not what most people think- a downgrade.

It's impossible for one that is not born to this world to understand how erotic and healing constructive humiliation is. They don't realize the responsibility that goes with mind fuckery and taking such an uncharted journey with another human being. Most have never soared that high or dove so deeply into darkness where the ultimate transformations take place.

It's complex, what I desire and the truth is I've settled. I thought I could have a strong butch, enjoy the whole old fashion BF dynamic and still be a spoiled princess but I'm sick and fucking tired of being misunderstood because I won't settle and because i want things. I'm sick and fucking tired of not having my needs met and then told I'm fucked up because of who I am. Tired of being so misunderstood.

Maybe two years ago a friend, naturally submissive boi came to visit. There wasn't anything feminine about him at all. Just being in protocol, enjoying the natural dynamic between us was unreal. The sexual chemistry was fueled by things most would never understand. I was still busy trying to mend a broken heart and I also knew my submissive friend, although a hot roll, would be consumed by my desire and too immature to meet my needs long term.... we fucked, we played, we soared and he left.

Nothing comes close to this. Still I'm undecided because even when I encounter a submissive boi he must be strong in character, intelligent, sturdy and sane. Thus far I encountered a lot of serious emotional baggage or because of my experience curious hook-ups. I am not a weekend warrior... I'm intense and I must prepare you & me for the journey. A little whippy spanky does nothing for me. I just havent found the right connection.

So weatherboi I understand where you are coming from and your desire to honor the divine feminine this way. Nothing teaches you or evolves your masculinity more then this IMO. There are women that "fit" this naturally and if you tap into that, find her, then you are a very lucky boi. Don't give a shit about what others think. Chances are they will not understand. You make change by example.

[weatherboi]

Thanks Andrew for your input. Now I will give some to you.

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

Weatherboi,

First of all this is a great thread! Good for you. You are brave for posting this. My hat is off to you.

Secondly, do not let anyone belittle you at all. Sheesh.

i don't let people belittle me, not even if i find it coming in a passive aggressive manner.

If they do, you just say it to me, and I will straighten them right out. Another jackass as I see it. You hold your head high.

thanks but i have been fighting my own battles for 40 years and will continue to do so on my own with my head always held high. self reflection has worked wonders for me and i will now advise the same you Andrew...self reflection!

Lastly, whomever is your partner/spouse go have fun! Go live life! It is so short. So have fun no matter what!

Andrew it is very disconcerning to me to read this...i know you know i am with Snow...i find it dismissive to my Ms/Domme/Femme, and myself that you would come up in here with this post. I am not quite sure what has been done to you to behave this way but i feel we need to take it to the red zone



Andrew i am owned and loved by The_Lady_Snow and honestly my days and nights are longer are longer now. Laughter is always present.

[weatherboi]

hi adorable-
thanks for putting forth such effort! great post!

Originally Posted by adorable

Thanks for starting this thread weatherboi. I started to post yesterday and stopped. I try to stay out of ID type threads due to the level of nastiness that normally results from them. Who we all are is complicated. There is nothing wrong with being just who you are and how you are - even if it makes sense only to you. What I have seen is that people are quick to say "YOU can't be that way because that doesn't work in MY head." lol. As if, how I am somehow makes them something else. Or the way that it works in my head means that I am trying to somehow negate how they feel even though I am talking about what works for ME. MY TRUTH. It doesn't belong to anyone else. I love it though when people say "No, you are wrong." Really? Why? What makes them right? Apparently, they think so - that makes it true.

i get this and see it in most aspects of my life being trans

Those things that are hot for us, our kinks and perversions are very personal and I think, they should be celebrated. I do now consider myself a submissive - that acknowledgement and understanding seemed to take FOREVER for me. I did consider it weak - although I wanted the exact same things as I do now, I called it something else before - anything but submissive. It was hard for me to understand the power exchange and the powerful stance of submitting. That I wasn't submitting to someone who was better then me somehow - that is where my head took it. (My ego hates that line of thinking.) I am a strong personality. I run things for a living. I had a million things that I thought meant that I was not a submissive or would make a horrible submissive. lol. I asked a ton of questions, I read a lot, I talked to other submissives and dom(me)s. Now I GET IT. Finally. And some people may still not consider me to be a submissive. What matters to me is that I do (and -->HE does. lol) I don't need the world to get it.

i could see where ego could get in the way of submitting...i know if my Ms sniffs out any cockiness or ego stuff that is getting in the way of my service she speaks to me about it

Submissive - the word - has the perception of weakness associated with it by society. Dominance is rewarded. Being on the bottom, we have been taught, doesn't seem quite so successful as being on the top of - well anything. What I wanted was to be submissive without the negative societal implications that I was somehow weaker for it.

I bottom ONLY to masculine male IDs and I top ONLY to feminine female IDs. It is very specific and about extremes for me. And it's not enough for them to have the right ID, they have to have the right look, attitude and level of disturbed-ness that works for me too. Now that may seem outwardly to be straightforward misogyny. It's not that I see male as more powerful and women as weaker in day to day life - but how I want to fuck and be fucked has very little with day to day life. It does have everything to do with perversion, my idea of hotness, a fucked up childhood and the twisted way that my mind works. Some people get off on the opposite, or something in between or riding a life size my little pony around the house. Somethings work and somethings just don't for each of us.
yeah i get it the whole raw dirty rough painful aspect of play/sex and that we all have our kink. i however cant view my Ms or any woman as weak in any aspect of my life, because this kink life i live touches me to some degree 24/7

I think we can all agree though that having a life size my little pony is hot.
how about hello kitty?

Society in general accepts my outward appearance more readily than others, in the same way that people just "get" (even though they have no idea about the REAL reason for why) that I want to be topped by a male ID. They don't question my desire for that in the same way they would you for wanting to be topped by a femme. I've heard people say a real butch doesn't_____ !! (Just fill in anything like a mad lib - just about every verb works.) Hearing that shit is like nails on a chalkboard for me. Like some people refer to their partner as "my old lady." Ugh. Welcome to 2010 folks....

There is so much more I'd like to say but now it would head off into the butch femme thing for me - which NEVER EVER works - so I will stop. Great thread!

maybe you should open a thread to discuss the topic you are halting on...it may be a good thing.

[Rope]

Bottoms run the fuck? I believe bottoms run the fuck in s/m scenes where it's all about them and all about sensation---they pull out the "No" that shuts a scene down. Or they safeword because it's too much, too intense, too owie, too whatever.

These are scenes about the bottoms sensation and pleasure of masochism NOT about an energy exchange based on a giving over, and submitting, or a willingness to serve.

M/s and D/s relationship do involve negotiations to BUILD TRUST--then yes, it is all about the Top (or me). I view a new slave or subs safeword as a guide for me to know where their tolerance is or the things that get them "there" faster, but I don't think, oh I should never use that or never go "there". I go where I want to go, and I know a sub or slave wants me to do that too. A slave or subs "safeword" is more of a way to inform and not necessarily stop their Master/Mistress or Dominant. These kinds of s/m and play relationships are based on relating--not solely sensation play.

So many put my M/s relationships down--you don't really RUN THE FUCK, your slave could stop that at any time, well, you're still in a butch/femme relationship, we know who really runs the show----shut the fuck up, you don't really know what the dynamic is especially when you don't LIVE IT but rather read about it and philosphize about it, and can't even stay awake in a workshop about it.

And as to all this--femme Top with butch bottom, or butch Top playing w/ butch bois or butch on femme, or butch Top with femme bottom.....geeesus, there's room for all. Put downs, leave 'em at the door. Just cuz it ain't your kink, leave it alone. We get put down enough by society at large, why can't we let our own live and let live?

People too stupid to see the power of a great slave, sub, girl/boi--to hell with them. I want power house slaves and subs in my life--butch or femme.

Rope--

p.s. weatherboi---you sooooooooo know you're welcome in my home anytime and I won't embarass you here raving about your great service. But it's the little touches---to turn a wine bottle <g>. your service is a tribute to your Ma'am.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Rope

Bottoms run the fuck? I believe bottoms run the fuck in s/m scenes where it's all about them and all about sensation---they pull out the "No" that shuts a scene down. Or they safeword because it's too much, too intense, too owie, too whatever.

These are scenes about the bottoms sensation and pleasure of masochism NOT about an energy exchange based on a giving over, and submitting, or a willingness to serve.

M/s and D/s relationship do involve negotiations to BUILD TRUST--then yes, it is all about the Top (or me). I view a new slave or subs safeword as a guide for me to know where their tolerance is or the things that get them "there" faster, but I don't think, oh I should never use that or never go "there". I go where I want to go, and I know a sub or slave wants me to do that too. A slave or subs "safeword" is more of a way to inform and not necessarily stop their Master/Mistress or Dominant. These kinds of s/m and play relationships are based on relating--not solely sensation play.

So many put my M/s relationships down--you don't really RUN THE FUCK, your slave could stop that at any time, well, you're still in a butch/femme relationship, we know who really runs the show----shut the fuck up, you don't really know what the dynamic is especially when you don't LIVE IT but rather read about it and philosphize about it, and can't even stay awake in a workshop about it.

And as to all this--femme Top with butch bottom, or butch Top playing w/ butch bois or butch on femme, or butch Top with femme bottom.....geeesus, there's room for all. Put downs, leave 'em at the door. Just cuz it ain't your kink, leave it alone. We get put down enough by society at large, why can't we let our own live and let live?

People too stupid to see the power of a great slave, sub, girl/boi--to hell with them. I want power house slaves and subs in my life--butch or femme.

Rope--

p.s. weatherboi---you sooooooooo know you're welcome in my home anytime and I won't embarass you here raving about your great service. But it's the little touches---to turn a wine bottle <g>. your service is a tribute to your Ma'am.

Thank you so much for this reply. I use safe words, as you said to understand tolerance but the moment it's use as an act of control I point to the door.

[Isadora]

Originally Posted by Liam

Perhaps you could clarify something for me, I'm confused about the derision you experience. Are the guilty parties primarily outside of the leather/bdsm community? Or have things changed? I had to serve as a bottom, before I could call myself a top, a practice which made sound sense to me, one of the many reasons being, to impress upon me, that a bottom is never less than.

It has been my experience that TNG is more fluid in their expression of their leather/kink identities and how they flow back and forth is no less leather than those whose role is set. I think things have changed, as all things flow between new ideas/lives and "traditions". However, I think that I have heard way too many Tops/Doms who have never bottomed be less then respectful to the bottom dynamic in other butches. It has occurred to me that serving also is a lesson in appreciation, but it is also not a necessarily stepping stone to top. While some bois are switchy, some are not. I agree, Liam, I can almost always tell the different perspective when you have experienced serving.

Since I love age play with bois, it becomes even more edgy to be a bottom boi. Not only are women "less then sexual" as Momma, the boi is pushed and misunderstood in hys boi self. The Momma/boi dynamic is deeply intimate and even more marginalized from the larger D/s, Daddy/boi/girl community. There is nothing that brings out the Momma Bear in me then fucking with my boi's 12 year old self. Respect the bottom who consents with complete understanding to the life we agree upon (as Toughy says negotiation and communication are paramount) especially when playing psychologically with age dynamics and sexuality.

One of the other things that always bothers me is that a lot of the butch Tops I know would be horrified and angry if someone approached their femme bottom with propositions, nasty comments, corrections and derision. Yet, it has happened to everyone of my bois. It is sad that being a boi somehow you have to "butch it up" and that telling me about hys experience is "tattle-telling" not being transparent to hys Top. The double standard floors me...but as we continue to realize that misogyny has deep and tangled roots, we recognize and hopefully change our behavior to be most respectful of all relationships.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Weatherboi,

I did not know you were with Lady Snow. This is news to me. Nobody said so much as boo to me.

Andrew

[weatherboi]

*on my knees head down*

Sir Rope-
Your words ring true to my leather heart and feelings. i thank You for taking Your time and Your knowledge to address this thread.

Originally Posted by Rope

Bottoms run the fuck? I believe bottoms run the fuck in s/m scenes where it's all about them and all about sensation---they pull out the "No" that shuts a scene down. Or they safeword because it's too much, too intense, too owie, too whatever.

Sir i really acknowledge what You say here and understand Your point. Since i have not been Privy to this particualar situation, i am wondering if, for me only, even then my Ms still runs the fuck because i realize i am her property and know she is gonna be the negotiator of the scene and she is gonna be privy to ending it as well. make sense Sir?

These are scenes about the bottoms sensation and pleasure of masochism NOT about an energy exchange based on a giving over, and submitting, or a willingness to serve.

i totally understand and agree with You Sir!

M/s and D/s relationship do involve negotiations to BUILD TRUST--then yes, it is all about the Top (or me). I view a new slave or subs safeword as a guide for me to know where their tolerance is or the things that get them "there" faster, but I don't think, oh I should never use that or never go "there". I go where I want to go, and I know a sub or slave wants me to do that too. A slave or subs "safeword" is more of a way to inform and not necessarily stop their Master/Mistress or Dominant. These kinds of s/m and play relationships are based on relating--not solely sensation play.

Sir this really describes my understanding of my relationship with my Ms. This is how i understand who runs the fuck in my relationship.

So many put my M/s relationships down--you don't really RUN THE FUCK, your slave could stop that at any time, well, you're still in a butch/femme relationship, we know who really runs the show----shut the fuck up, you don't really know what the dynamic is especially when you don't LIVE IT but rather read about it and philosphize about it, and can't even stay awake in a workshop about it.
yes Sir


And as to all this--femme Top with butch bottom, or butch Top playing w/ butch bois or butch on femme, or butch Top with femme bottom.....geeesus, there's room for all. Put downs, leave 'em at the door. Just cuz it ain't your kink, leave it alone. We get put down enough by society at large, why can't we let our own live and let live?


People too stupid to see the power of a great slave, sub, girl/boi--to hell with them. I want power house slaves and subs in my life--butch or femme.

Sir once again Your thoughts describe my understanding of my Ms and her desires for my service and for me. i humbly realize that it is up to me to be the best slave for my Ms and the best leatherboy for my Ms and Our community.

Rope--

p.s. weatherboi---you sooooooooo know you're welcome in my home anytime and I won't embarass you here raving about your great service. But it's the little touches---to turn a wine bottle <g>. your service is a tribute to your Ma'am.

*lump in throat*
Sir-
it was my priviledge and honor to be invited to Your home
Your words are carved into my leather soul and will help me see clear, so that i may always strive to give better service to my Ms and anybody else she has me serve.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Isadora

It has been my experience that TNG is more fluid in their expression of their leather/kink identities and how they flow back and forth is no less leather than those whose role is set. I think things have changed, as all things flow between new ideas/lives and "traditions". However, I think that I have heard way too many Tops/Doms who have never bottomed be less then respectful to the bottom dynamic in other butches. It has occurred to me that serving also is a lesson in appreciation, but it is also not a necessarily stepping stone to top. While some bois are switchy, some are not. I agree, Liam, I can almost always tell the different perspective when you have experienced serving.

Since I love age play with bois, it becomes even more edgy to be a bottom boi. Not only are women "less then sexual" as Momma, the boi is pushed and misunderstood in hys boi self. The Momma/boi dynamic is deeply intimate and even more marginalized from the larger D/s, Daddy/boi/girl community. There is nothing that brings out the Momma Bear in me then fucking with my boi's 12 year old self. Respect the bottom who consents with complete understanding to the life we agree upon (as Toughy says negotiation and communication are paramount) especially when playing psychologically with age dynamics and sexuality.

One of the other things that always bothers me is that a lot of the butch Tops I know would be horrified and angry if someone approached their femme bottom with propositions, nasty comments, corrections and derision. Yet, it has happened to everyone of my bois. It is sad that being a boi somehow you have to "butch it up" and that telling me about hys experience is "tattle-telling" not being transparent to hys Top. The double standard floors me...but as we continue to realize that misogyny has deep and tangled roots, we recognize and hopefully change our behavior to be most respectful of all relationships.

Thank you for the kindness and courtesy of your reply, Isa. This also explains some interactions/observations I have had, that made me twitch.