What makes a Butch "Butch" - Page 2

Novelafemme · 05-03-2012, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starryeyes

Yesterday when I was driving to work, I was at a stop light. I was looking arous and spotted a cute butch in a jeep. Short crew cut, baseball hat, sweatshirt... Typical bucth presentation. When the light turned green, she put her hands on the steering wheel, and her fake nails were longer and more glittery than mine. For a sec I was like... Maybe she wasn't a "butch"... But then I was like, you go! Be who you wanna be. If you wanna dress up like a femme one night and go out on the town, do it! If you wanna dress up in a suit and tie the next, do it! We only live once and the best part of life of self expression. No one can change who you are inside.

Hugs

I love it!! Gender bending is so fabulous

My property manager is a big butch and has long, red, gorgeous nails. I asked her about them once and she said it just feels good to her. 'Nuff said

Just_G · 05-03-2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintease

I dated an idiot once who yelled at me that she was too butch to wear a bikini top. I could understand if we lived in a society where women risked being bashed for wearing bikini tops, but we were going to a beach with a bunch of gays, none of whom really cared about ID. She may have thought she was being big and butch, but how comfortable can you be about your ID if you have to rely on rigid clothing rules to get your message across?

Its because people might look and say upon first : She isnt butch...when in fact, she is, but cant make that known to people without having a certain look that she might feel conveys her butchness.

If someone wants to wear a csrtain type of clothing to convey this, then leave them be and let them do what makes them one with how they ID.
Its not about what they where, it is about how what they wear makes them feel. If that makes her an idiot, then I am one proud idiot in all my butchness.

Just my .02

luv2luvgirls · 05-03-2012, 12:25 PM

I dont know what made me a butch... other than I was just born this way. If my mom put some frilly thing or dress on me as soon as I hit the door to go outside it came off.. I would run the hood neekid rather than wear frilly stuff, thats just how I was. I dont think you can lump us butches in a neat box like that,we have our own tastes and likes about everything *shrugs* even how we like to dress,or what type we are attracted to.

Corkey · 05-03-2012, 12:44 PM

I have nails most women would kill someone for, hard strong and chip free. Sometimes I let them grow to phenomenal lengths, sometimes I cut them down to nothing. They grow long in 1 week, keeping up is a chore and unless I'm writing a thesis they are pretty much not in the way. It has nothing to do with who I am.

Parker · 05-03-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corkey

I have nails most women would kill someone for, hard strong and chip free. Sometimes I let them grow to phenomenal lengths, sometimes I cut them down to nothing. They grow long in 1 week, keeping up is a chore and unless I'm writing a thesis they are pretty much not in the way. It has nothing to do with who I am.

Yeah - and I dont keep mine short because I'm butch - they just get in the way and make me crazy so I cut them down to nothing every few days.

Quintease · 05-03-2012, 01:51 PM

I have never had nails until now. So for most of my lesbian life I have not had nails or nail polish despite being femme. In fact a lesbian twigged me in a straight setting once, purely on the basis of my hands.

I'm femme and I walk like a man apparently. Somehow I can manage this even in heels, which I don't wear any more so I guess I walk like a man all the time now.

My hubby used to have long hair in his previous life, it was the only 'feminine' thing about him. Obviously now it's shortshort, but he still misses his hair sometimes.

Hair, nails, walk, none of it really has a 'gender'. Anyone can 'drink like a man' or 'cry like a girl'. Yet even though our gender attributes are all mixed up, we all still know if we're male or female/ masculine or feminine/ gay or straight. It's strange that we just know, it's strange that we need to have these distinctions. It's an interesting question. What is a butch if it has nothing to with hair, clothing or sex? What is it that defines her and contrasts her to a femme? I wish I knew the answer to that.

Cin · 05-03-2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firegal

I,m with you on the bad drag queen,My past partners/gf,s have all loooked so damn sexy in my shirts... but i,m thinking that me in theirs might not get the same reaction.Their is humor in this statement but also i really believe it has some truth to it.

This got me thinking how for some people it doesn’t seem to be okay for masculine people of any ilk including butches to wear feminine clothing or participate in any ritual deemed feminizing, but for feminine people there doesn’t seem to be this same rigidity. I don’t know if it has to do with masculine borders being patrolled more stringently but that would be my guess. Male has more currency than female so it stands to reason it would be more highly valued and more aggressively monitored. I believe this is what is behind the hatred of both female masculinity and masculine femininity in general.

I remember a past partner of mine expressing her displeasure and concern over my wearing blouses to work ( i changed jobs while we were together and had to get dressed up more). She felt it took away from my butchness. I doubt much of anything could take away my butchness but that’s just me.

I also painted my toenails orange one summer. I thought it looked good with my tan. Again my partner was not a fan. I have never done my fingernails I just don't think I would like it much or do it well. I had enough trouble coloring inside the lines as a kid. Toenails are more forgiving.

My wife doesn't care what I do. She has encouraged me to let my hair grow cause she loves the curls. I don't get the feeling she things my butchness is connected to anything outside myself.

Dude · 05-03-2012, 02:36 PM

what makes a decent human being
that's the kind of thread that would feel new to me.
there may suddenly be a "need" to start a femme version of this thread
sigh (maybe there already is one?)

we all have our own types we are attracted to
and hopefully they evolve as we do (hopefully)
period.
the end.

I think threads like this set up more of a competition (undercurrent) amongst each other.
At the end of the day Who cares how you present ,just be ok with yourself ( an inside job )
Insecurities ,jealousy and in fighting. I've seen it, felt it and know it's true.
I could give a fuck who you (the general you) are dating ,because guess what, I don't want her.
That's not how I roll or the kind of human being I am.

I can count the butch friends I have on one hand.(after many years online
and in real life)
They are all secure in themselves and know I am not a threat to their relationships or "butch-hood" <eyeroll>
I could give a fuck what they wear swimming and would not diss them.
There is no weird (frat boy) butch posturing... I hate that more than anything. <puke>
Or leg lifting , a trait I've seen in all genders <ew>

I have (in my many years) been attracted to femme's with short nails and short hair <gasp>
brains, compassion, integrity and humor are hot.
("be about something")
It takes more than getting your nails done and hairs did to keep me interested. call me crazy

I have many a gay man crush based of their honesty first and their pretty eyes or a nice ass second.
Real allies in this life? I dig them. period.
on a bit of a roll today
pardon me

~ocean · 05-03-2012, 03:31 PM

"applauds" you Dude, very well said

macele · 05-03-2012, 03:35 PM

my first recalls of being emotionally attracted to women were teachers in 3rd and 5th grades. one teacher was sweet. the other was strict. it was about the way they treated me with a feminine way of affection and caring. these were some the first feelings that i had, .. knowing but unknowing to an extent, ... that i am a lesbian.

i've never changed a tire or changed the oil. i like sundresses. i'm quiet, ... i don't make a scene. what i do in life is preference. what we like to do or what we like to wear/appearance or how we act, ... varies. we are individuals. our personalities are attracted to what feels natural, at ease. or simply what we think makes us look good. whatever gets the groove on. choice and natural meet up to form indiviualism.

it's true, energy differentiates butch and femme. i am a lesbian butch. i was born with some masculine traits. not entirely. for example, i am an emotional person. the tears roll so easy. that's not thought of as masculine. a butch is a female with some maleness about her. just a woman with a bit of butchiness. and with that said, i'm under the impression that some femmes like it. that's a good deal from where i am.

SweetJane · 05-03-2012, 03:51 PM

Being butch or femme is not a matter of outward accoutrements (dress, hair, nails). And sometimes it isn't even a matter of self-identity. It is truly a matter of energy.

Many butches are indeed female-bodied; others find themselves along a range of trans-expression (whether they are still female-bodied or not). All of them generate male energy, whether in a swagger, a smirk, a look, a presence. It is an intrinsic part of their very core.

Put one of them in a dress or red nails. They're still butch.

For me, though, to see their delicious maleness transposed over a fleeting whisper of femaleness that sometimes passes across their faces is...... well....swoonable. It is a soft expression of vulnerability within a strong persona.

Damn...

Merlin · 05-03-2012, 04:23 PM

Being butch is every fibre of my make up, it's who I am. Put me in a dress and I am a butch in a dress. Dress me in a starched white shirt,cuff links,tie, waistcoat,jacket and trousers and I feel like its a second skin, a glove, moulding my body and exuding my confidence.

I love being butch - its who I am.

Just_G · 05-03-2012, 04:45 PM

Butch just radiates from me. I AM butch, I was born butch...not taught how to be butch. It is who I am, how I act, how I dress, and it is tattooed on me.

I take pride in being butch. I have never known how to act like some females...which to ME, that would be like doing my hair, nails, liking to shop, wearing make-up, accessorising with jewelry, etc. I know that there are even some men that are good at those things....I am not.

The funny thing is, there are some things that a lot of butches like to do that I don't care to do; like working on cars....I cannot stand to get grease and dirt all over my hands and around my cuticles. I sit back and think my buddy Cheech is REALLY butch because he does like to work on cars and stuff, but then he will turn around and say that he thinks I am REALLY butch because I am good at building things and good with tools. We have had this discussion a gazillion times over beer and wings.

I could build a room addition before I could change my oil....lol

Anyway, as far as what makes a butch a butch.....well, that is up to the individual person. I don't really think that anything MAKES someone butch, I think it is just something that is very natural and it comes from within one's heart and soul....their core.

firegal · 05-03-2012, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude

what makes a decent human being
that's the kind of thread that would feel new to me.
there may suddenly be a "need" to start a femme version of this thread
sigh (maybe there already is one?)

we all have our own types we are attracted to
and hopefully they evolve as we do (hopefully)
period.
the end.

I think threads like this set up more of a competition (undercurrent) amongst each other.
At the end of the day Who cares how you present ,just be ok with yourself ( an inside job )
Insecurities ,jealousy and in fighting. I've seen it, felt it and know it's true.
I could give a fuck who you (the general you) are dating ,because guess what, I don't want her.
That's not how I roll or the kind of human being I am.

I can count the butch friends I have on one hand.(after many years online
and in real life)
They are all secure in themselves and know I am not a threat to their relationships or "butch-hood" <eyeroll>
I could give a fuck what they wear swimming and would not diss them.
There is no weird (frat boy) butch posturing... I hate that more than anything. <puke>
Or leg lifting , a trait I've seen in all genders <ew>

I have (in my many years) been attracted to femme's with short nails and short hair <gasp>
brains, compassion, integrity and humor are hot.
("be about something")
It takes more than getting your nails done and hairs did to keep me interested. call me crazy

I have many a gay man crush based of their honesty first and their pretty eyes or a nice ass second.
Real allies in this life? I dig them. period.
on a bit of a roll today
pardon me

I hear you and agree on many of your statements. Ive had to remind myself that alot of these threads even amongst the controversy or undertones have folks reading/looking at them some of whom are brand spanking new to this site.Some of them growing,learning,maturing,absorbing.Who maybe need to hear both sides and/or need to hear someone else thoughts challenged.

I get reminded regularly that "its not always about you' which helps me realize somebody else may benefit from this convo.

Parker · 05-03-2012, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetJane

Being butch or femme is not a matter of outward accoutrements (dress, hair, nails). And sometimes it isn't even a matter of self-identity. It is truly a matter of energy.

Many butches are indeed female-bodied; others find themselves along a range of trans-expression (whether they are still female-bodied or not). All of them generate male energy, whether in a swagger, a smirk, a look, a presence. It is an intrinsic part of their very core.

Put one of them in a dress or red nails. They're still butch.

For me, though, to see their delicious maleness transposed over a fleeting whisper of femaleness that sometimes passes across their faces is...... well....swoonable. It is a soft expression of vulnerability within a strong persona.

Damn...

Not do get into semantics, but I have to disagree with your use of the terms male and maleness when describing all butches.

I have masculine energy and exude masculinity, but I am not a man or male and do not exude anything to do with men, males, or maleness.

Again, it may be semantics to some, but to me, there is a huge difference between masculine and male - I am the former but I will never be the latter.

Dude · 05-03-2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firegal

I hear you and agree on many of your statements. Ive had to remind myself that alot of these threads even amongst the controversy or undertones have folks reading/looking at them some of whom are brand spanking new to this site.Some of them growing,learning,maturing,absorbing.Who maybe need to hear both sides and/or need to hear someone else thoughts challenged.

I get reminded regularly that "its not always about you' which helps me realize somebody else may benefit from this convo.

I guess I should have been more clear with my post as I did not
mean any offense to the Original Post.
I do get there are people here of all ages and growing processes.
My post was not meant to minimize anyone but just an observation
I've had over the years.
I could almost bet in a day or so a "gold star butch" will appear who
is the greatest butch of all ( in their own mind) and I think that
kind of posturing is gross.
I like to think someone might get some comfort from what old goats have
to say as well.
I'm not trying to shut down the conversation at all, in fact.
I like to think there is room for everyone here and I have earned my seat here
as well, thanks.

firegal · 05-03-2012, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude

I guess I should have been more clear with my post as I did not
mean any offense to the Original Post.
I do get there are people here of all ages and growing processes.
My post was not meant to minimize anyone but just an observation
I've had over the years.
I could almost bet in a day or so a "gold star butch" will appear who
is the greatest butch of all ( in their own mind) and I think that
kind of posturing is gross.
I like to think someone might get some comfort from what old goats have
to say as well.
I'm not trying to shut down the conversation at all, in fact.
I like to think there is room for everyone here and I have earned my seat here
as well, thanks.

I'm thinking were r on same page. as i stated in my agreement with your statements...

My comments werent in opposition as you also state yours werent either.

just sharing information, points of view and thoughts which is what i love about all these threads.

girl_dee · 05-03-2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker

Not do get into semantics, but I have to disagree with your use of the terms male and maleness when describing all butches.

I have masculine energy and exude masculinity, but I am not a man or male and do not exude anything to do with men, males, or maleness.

Again, it may be semantics to some, but to me, there is a huge difference between masculine and male - I am the former but I will never be the latter.

Agree completely, to assume butch = male energy is grossly incorrect!

Masculinity is an energy all on it's own, and it's not owned by the male population.

Not all butches are or want to be male identified or invoke maleness, they are quite happy being a female identified butch.

Corkey · 05-03-2012, 07:02 PM

My sisters and brothers all agree, Butch is owned by those who are.

macele · 05-03-2012, 07:26 PM

well i'll say on my part that i shouldn't have used the word maleness. i don't even like it lol. i certainly didn't mean in any way that a butch is male. i just associated the two words together maleness/masculine. i can understand how some could be offended by either word. i don't have a male sex organ and i do not want a male sex organ. it would probably serve me well to just identify as a woman.

05-03-2012, 12:44 PM	#24
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,299 Times in 6,640 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	I have nails most women would kill someone for, hard strong and chip free. Sometimes I let them grow to phenomenal lengths, sometimes I cut them down to nothing. They grow long in 1 week, keeping up is a chore and unless I'm writing a thesis they are pretty much not in the way. It has nothing to do with who I am. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

05-03-2012, 01:51 PM	#26
Quintease Member How Do You Identify?: Rainbow femme Preferred Pronoun?: princess Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 514 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 508 Thanked 1,816 Times in 417 Posts Rep Power: 10345577	I have never had nails until now. So for most of my lesbian life I have not had nails or nail polish despite being femme. In fact a lesbian twigged me in a straight setting once, purely on the basis of my hands. I'm femme and I walk like a man apparently. Somehow I can manage this even in heels, which I don't wear any more so I guess I walk like a man all the time now. My hubby used to have long hair in his previous life, it was the only 'feminine' thing about him. Obviously now it's shortshort, but he still misses his hair sometimes. Hair, nails, walk, none of it really has a 'gender'. Anyone can 'drink like a man' or 'cry like a girl'. Yet even though our gender attributes are all mixed up, we all still know if we're male or female/ masculine or feminine/ gay or straight. It's strange that we just know, it's strange that we need to have these distinctions. It's an interesting question. What is a butch if it has nothing to with hair, clothing or sex? What is it that defines her and contrasts her to a femme? I wish I knew the answer to that. __________________ It is not worth an intelligent person's time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

05-03-2012, 04:23 PM	#32
Merlin Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: Knight in shining armour. Relationship Status: Spoken for Join Date: May 2011 Location: England Posts: 250 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 87 Thanked 547 Times in 170 Posts Rep Power: 6763776	Being butch is every fibre of my make up, it's who I am. Put me in a dress and I am a butch in a dress. Dress me in a starched white shirt,cuff links,tie, waistcoat,jacket and trousers and I feel like its a second skin, a glove, moulding my body and exuding my confidence. I love being butch - its who I am. __________________ https://youtu.be/IWvEXChflEE

05-03-2012, 04:45 PM	#33
Just_G Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch, Switch, Comedian...G...whichever. Preferred Pronoun?: He....with an e! Relationship Status: I'll take kinky & twisted for $200, Alex!! Tournaments Won: 1 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: in the middle Posts: 2,281 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 874 Thanked 6,165 Times in 1,450 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	Butch just radiates from me. I AM butch, I was born butch...not taught how to be butch. It is who I am, how I act, how I dress, and it is tattooed on me. I take pride in being butch. I have never known how to act like some females...which to ME, that would be like doing my hair, nails, liking to shop, wearing make-up, accessorising with jewelry, etc. I know that there are even some men that are good at those things....I am not. The funny thing is, there are some things that a lot of butches like to do that I don't care to do; like working on cars....I cannot stand to get grease and dirt all over my hands and around my cuticles. I sit back and think my buddy Cheech is REALLY butch because he does like to work on cars and stuff, but then he will turn around and say that he thinks I am REALLY butch because I am good at building things and good with tools. We have had this discussion a gazillion times over beer and wings. I could build a room addition before I could change my oil....lol Anyway, as far as what makes a butch a butch.....well, that is up to the individual person. I don't really think that anything MAKES someone butch, I think it is just something that is very natural and it comes from within one's heart and soul....their core. __________________ Happy are those who dream and are ready to pay the price to make them come true!

05-03-2012, 07:02 PM	#39
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,299 Times in 6,640 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	My sisters and brothers all agree, Butch is owned by those who are. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

05-03-2012, 12:25 PM	#23
luv2luvgirls Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Asshole Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Kentucky/Austin/Wherever Posts: 2,310 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,387 Thanked 5,470 Times in 1,827 Posts Rep Power: 0	I dont know what made me a butch... other than I was just born this way. If my mom put some frilly thing or dress on me as soon as I hit the door to go outside it came off.. I would run the hood neekid rather than wear frilly stuff, thats just how I was. I dont think you can lump us butches in a neat box like that,we have our own tastes and likes about everything shrugs even how we like to dress,or what type we are attracted to.

05-03-2012, 02:36 PM	#28
Dude Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: Perusing Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: exit 5 with an exit 21 goal Posts: 1,725 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 15,351 Thanked 10,606 Times in 1,477 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	what makes a decent human being that's the kind of thread that would feel new to me. there may suddenly be a "need" to start a femme version of this thread sigh (maybe there already is one?) we all have our own types we are attracted to and hopefully they evolve as we do (hopefully) period. the end. I think threads like this set up more of a competition (undercurrent) amongst each other. At the end of the day Who cares how you present ,just be ok with yourself ( an inside job ) Insecurities ,jealousy and in fighting. I've seen it, felt it and know it's true. I could give a fuck who you (the general you) are dating ,because guess what, I don't want her. That's not how I roll or the kind of human being I am. I can count the butch friends I have on one hand.(after many years online and in real life) They are all secure in themselves and know I am not a threat to their relationships or "butch-hood" <eyeroll> I could give a fuck what they wear swimming and would not diss them. There is no weird (frat boy) butch posturing... I hate that more than anything. <puke> Or leg lifting , a trait I've seen in all genders <ew> I have (in my many years) been attracted to femme's with short nails and short hair <gasp> brains, compassion, integrity and humor are hot. ("be about something") It takes more than getting your nails done and hairs did to keep me interested. call me crazy I have many a gay man crush based of their honesty first and their pretty eyes or a nice ass second. Real allies in this life? I dig them. period. on a bit of a roll today pardon me

05-03-2012, 03:31 PM	#29
~ocean Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme blows a kiss off my finger tips * Preferred Pronoun?: ~ hey girl ~ Relationship Status: ~ single & content ~ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Massachusetts ~coastal Posts: 7,905 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 22,958 Thanked 16,124 Times in 4,736 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	"applauds" you Dude, very well said

05-03-2012, 03:35 PM	#30
macele Member How Do You Identify?: a bold-assed maximus Preferred Pronoun?: she Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: mississippi Posts: 1,066 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,178 Thanked 3,239 Times in 849 Posts Rep Power: 21474849	my first recalls of being emotionally attracted to women were teachers in 3rd and 5th grades. one teacher was sweet. the other was strict. it was about the way they treated me with a feminine way of affection and caring. these were some the first feelings that i had, .. knowing but unknowing to an extent, ... that i am a lesbian. i've never changed a tire or changed the oil. i like sundresses. i'm quiet, ... i don't make a scene. what i do in life is preference. what we like to do or what we like to wear/appearance or how we act, ... varies. we are individuals. our personalities are attracted to what feels natural, at ease. or simply what we think makes us look good. whatever gets the groove on. choice and natural meet up to form indiviualism. it's true, energy differentiates butch and femme. i am a lesbian butch. i was born with some masculine traits. not entirely. for example, i am an emotional person. the tears roll so easy. that's not thought of as masculine. a butch is a female with some maleness about her. just a woman with a bit of butchiness. and with that said, i'm under the impression that some femmes like it. that's a good deal from where i am.

05-03-2012, 03:51 PM	#31
SweetJane Member How Do You Identify?: stone femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: always solo Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 368 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 380 Thanked 815 Times in 198 Posts Rep Power: 4309956	Being butch or femme is not a matter of outward accoutrements (dress, hair, nails). And sometimes it isn't even a matter of self-identity. It is truly a matter of energy. Many butches are indeed female-bodied; others find themselves along a range of trans-expression (whether they are still female-bodied or not). All of them generate male energy, whether in a swagger, a smirk, a look, a presence. It is an intrinsic part of their very core. Put one of them in a dress or red nails. They're still butch. For me, though, to see their delicious maleness transposed over a fleeting whisper of femaleness that sometimes passes across their faces is...... well....swoonable. It is a soft expression of vulnerability within a strong persona. Damn...

05-03-2012, 07:26 PM	#40
macele Member How Do You Identify?: a bold-assed maximus Preferred Pronoun?: she Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: mississippi Posts: 1,066 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,178 Thanked 3,239 Times in 849 Posts Rep Power: 21474849	well i'll say on my part that i shouldn't have used the word maleness. i don't even like it lol. i certainly didn't mean in any way that a butch is male. i just associated the two words together maleness/masculine. i can understand how some could be offended by either word. i don't have a male sex organ and i do not want a male sex organ. it would probably serve me well to just identify as a woman.