Ode to Butches

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Hudson

No, it wasn't the same one. Not at all. But this thread does prove that if butches *think* an 'ode' is written by a woman, or at least posted by one, then it's welcome, whereas one they believe is the exact same, if written or posted by a man, (attracted to masculinity) is not. Or at least that's what's been said before.

A couple butches opinions proves something about the way all butches think?

FYI, I read the ad to butches by the bio-male and was flattered... not interested but flattered none the less.

I didn't find it odd at all, it's not the first time I've run into guys who have a thing for butches... honestly the only thing I found odd was you're placing that article in the middle of a discussion about female butches, and perhaps your bee-lining in here to talk about it again.

But I totally believe to each their own... what you want to discuss really doesn't hold great interest for me... unless you make a sweeping generalization about what butches think.

We do not group think.

Peace,
Metro

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by Waldo

That's what I get for skimming.

For fucks sake.

(it's the phrase of the day)

The phrase of the day is "motorboating".

Oh shoot it's after midnight- ok you're right.

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by Waldo

For fucks sake.

Am I reading this right? That we (whether butch, femme or trans) aren't supposed to consider this a valid communication because it originated from a bio man/male?

If that logic is to be followed then we should probably shut down or heavily moderate the "Tap It" thread so that no celebrity who isn't receptive to the advances of a butch, femme, trans or genderqueer person is discussed.

One of the unifying aspects of this site is sexuality. And this certainly falls into that category. Granted, it's not something we discuss often, but it fits.

It's okay that it's not your cuppa tea, but it might be right up the alley of those who want to expand their thoughts about what attracts one person to another.

For me personally it always amuses/confuses me when a guy finds me attractive, but I'm always flattered. And showing appreciation for my physical appearance isn't always about objectification.

/soapbox

It's very valid. As valid as the responses that the original post (with the ad) received. For a number of people, it was not their cup of tea. Why would that be the issue here? Because it originated from a bio male? (assumed). They are not allowed to voice displeasure? It goes both ways. If there were any butches in that thread that had a positive response, they could have done so. And I believe one did respond in a positive manner. So let's not make this a hetero-homo sexual issue.

I could easily create and post an ode to bio men/transmen that says equally the same things, e.g., appreciating how I love that they could be pleasured by my cock and not feel any less male/manly. I would expect both negative and positive responses without labeling anyone with a phobia.

I could PM you the ad and would be interested in your response. I have had bio men at work tell me I look sharp for that particular day and I appreciate it. If one told me I have a great ass, not so much. But that's just me.

I do happen to have a great ass (so says my girl )

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by Waldo

That's what I get for skimming.

For fucks sake.

(it's the phrase of the day)

*snickers*

[BullDog]

I agree with Outlaw, we get to decide what we find complimentary or objectifying and what we are interested in talking about. If a man wants to pay me a compliment like hey nice haircut- sure that's nice. A long ode that waxes poetic- I am just simply not interested. Anyway I think it was lifted from somewhere. My apologies if they guy spent hours composing it for his ad. His "ode" might not be exactly the same as the one posted in this thread. Who's on first, lol.

What has bothered me was the continued insistence in 2 threads that butch women discuss it- coming from someone who doesn't id as a butch woman- and when it didn't appear anyone was interested in discussing it we are called transphobic and homophobic. The man posting the ad never said he was trans and I don't get where homophobia would come into play at all- he's male, we're female.

Like Kosmo said, if anyone does want to discuss it they are free to do so.

[Kosmo]

You are strong of will, intelligent, and compassionate. You make mistakes and can admit them. You strive to understand, to think outside the box because you have been held prisoner in one for so long. You appreciate the struggles of women because you are one. You walk with head held high as you enter those realms non-accepting of what you look like, what you stand for, who you are. You are fluid, stable, soft, concrete.

You appreciate being noticed for your brains, your style, your team work, your ability to make it happen, to figure it out; and not just for your looks or your sexual prowess (as perceived or decreed by others).

You remember feeling different, but not knowing why. That you weren't the good little girl that didn't get dirty or the one that was supposed to show appreciation or thanks for a compliment based on your looks by boys, men that made you feel uncomfortable, because girls should appreciate it, be thankful for it. You said, fuck it.

You have made yourself who you are and you continue to grow.

You are a Butch.

[FeminineAllure]

What I love most about a butch is...

I love the dichotomy of a butch...
Something with seemingly contradictory qualities...
Your female body with that masculine strut.
Your yang balancing my yin.
Your hardness and your softness.
Your roughness with your gentleness.
Your making love to me with a cock while knowing every part of my body like your own.
Being in a woman's body and wearing men's clothing. And looking better than they do in them.
Your strong protective arms holding my hand that is smaller like yours.
The smell of your sweat and testosterone from working on my car for me. Then smelling freshly showered cooking your favorite recipe for us.
Playing pool with your friends for the afternoon and that evening... helping me paint my toenails and choosing me a color knowing the importance of it matching my lipstick.
Wanting to watch monday night football and not being afraid to cry when your team looses. LOL
Comfortable only in your boots. Yet also willing to wear a pair of my sandals in a pinch< that fit you perfectly> to run out to the store to get me my favorite icecream.
You often have a selective memory yet you remember my favorite icecream, flowers, and our anniversary a month before it even comes up.
The way you say to me "honey I know just what your going through" once a month and truly do.
The way you willingly will allow me to test a perfume on you I want to smell in a store... yet I ran out of room on my own body to still smell anything.
The way you let me hold a pair of earrings or a purse or an outfit up to you to see what it will look like on me and men walking by us looking at you and thinking "poor guy."
The way you ignore any whispers or laughter at us together as your eyes glance at his crotch and you laugh back thinking "at least I get to choose my size"
The way men don't look twice at us while you pull out my chair for me and open doors.
The way you actually take as long or longer then me to get ready to go out sometimes
and I am the one saying "honey you look fine."
The way you respect your part of our closet...all 12 hangers.
I love a butch for all of this and so much more...
But what I love the most about you...Is your like having the best of both genders all in one package<g> Emotionally, mentally, and physically I can relate to you.
And I never have to remind you to put down the toilet seat!

Written by me
From my heart.

[WILDCAT]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZt5Q-u4crc"]YouTube- Bobbie Gentry - Ode To Billy Joe[/ame]

You older folks, remember this song was out WAY back (late 60's?) and everyone loved it, and tried to speculate what is what about...? "AHHH! Abortion, they threw the baby off the bridge", "no it was murder and a dead guy's body they tossed off the bridge", etc...

All I gave a damn about what this woman named "BOBBIE GENTRY" singing this song. (I may or may NOT have had a tiny crush on her for that reason alone!)

Anyway, (I digress!) then the movie came out around mid-70's (?) and this beautiful male actor Robbie Benson played Billie Joe. It was heart wrenching for many of us to watch. An old "bible belt" region, him possibly being a queer - how difficult and painful that was to be able to cope with the realities of his life and trauma at that time - and how many of us could RELATE to it (especially who grew up a tad more rurally), as queer was not so out then - NOT even in the movies. Sad to think of it now even. Ouch.

AHH, BUT, hell - here I am reminded that we aren't much further off between the queers and the straights - and all 'dat... just a couple days before the year 2010! We kill each other, don't we? (Metaphorically [comedically] speaking here, not literally - of course.)

PEACE
WILDCAT



*Where's "la la"? I smell a sabotage... little bugger! Anyway, I think folks are missing the point of the start of this thread. (I'm too shy to spell out my opinion - once again.) But, discussion is good - yes (?) Everyone feeling the growing pains yet?

**Nice tribute FA. What about us with very large hands and big feet? That makes things more complicated regarding the footwear thingy. Just sayin'. I've never measured my hands, why let me do so know! Oh, a hard 7 3/4". That's not TOO bad. (I really thought they'd be BIGGER.) Size 12 shoes. I love that I don't need a tape rule to measure off rooms, I just walk 'em off!

***GOOD day all!

[FeminineAllure]

It was just a metaphor WILDCAT. I realize not every butch has small hands and feet lol. Or that all femmes do as well for that matter.

[WILDCAT]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

It was just a metaphor WILDCAT. I realize not every butch has small hands and feet lol. Or that all femmes do as well for that matter.

Now I hope you know I was only "teasing"! Nothing "ouchy" there!! Just being silly.

I love big hands. (Oh, I spelled now, "know"... as in measure my hands "NOW" - I meant, in that post - oops.)

Ever notice the size of Vanessa Redgrave's hands?! Woo-hooo!! Big and strong, but so is she!

[Inuus]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

It was just a metaphor WILDCAT. I realize not every butch has small hands and feet lol. Or that all femmes do as well for that matter.

Yeah if that was the case (butches with small hands/feet) I wouldnt fit the mold. I'm a bit simian like. Long legs long arms big hands and feet..but at least Im not hairy

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

A couple butches opinions proves something about the way all butches think?

FYI, I read the ad to butches by the bio-male and was flattered... not interested but flattered none the less.

I didn't find it odd at all, it's not the first time I've run into guys who have a thing for butches... honestly the only thing I found odd was you're placing that article in the middle of a discussion about female butches, and perhaps your bee-lining in here to talk about it again.

But I totally believe to each their own... what you want to discuss really doesn't hold great interest for me... unless you make a sweeping generalization about what butches think.

We do not group think.

Peace,
Metro

Hi Metro,

Thanks for sharing your opinion about the craigslist ad. I'm not here to discuss that ad. And I already explained my intent there, then. I made an observation about the different reaction this ode got. I never said 'all' butches although I can recall quite clearly that *most* butches responded negatively, one or two with outright hostility. I'm also not the only one who noticed and commented. So unless you're speaking to me as a moderator when you're accusing me of 'beelining' here to discuss 'it' again (read: starting trouble), kindly refrain.

Carry on.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by WILDCAT

YouTube- Bobbie Gentry - Ode To Billy Joe
All I gave a damn about what this woman named "BOBBIE GENTRY" singing this song. (I may or may NOT have had a tiny crush on her for that reason alone!)

Bobbie Gentry was hott. Did you hear that there's supposedly a master recording of the song that contains additional lyrics that explain the central mystery of the song? Of course, that mystery is part of what makes it so great.

If one responds so negatively to the idea that a (bio)man may have posted an ode to butches, or that there are straight men who find butch women attractive, then I posit that one may be engaging in a little reverse 'gay panic-icity.' I'm not saying you'd kill a man over it, but those same feelings of revulsion combined with hostility are ones that can clearly lead to unpleasant places.

Like the Tallahatchie Bridge, with a mysterious bundle in your arms.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

The smell of your sweat and testosterone from working on my car for me. .

FeminineAllure,

I know your Ode is heartfelt, and I am sure many butches appreciate it.

I am not writing this now to hurt your feelings or attack you, but I found this line too interesting and (after thinking about it for quite some time!) feel compelled to ask a question regarding it.

Why would a butch have any more scent of testosterone than I as a femme?

Even with an endrocine disorder (such as PCOS), where there may be a hormonal imbalance, I don't think one would be able to detect its scent. I know all women have some measure of testosterone in their systems, but, certainly for most, it is not the dominating one.

Basically, wouldn't a butch have the same basic scent or smell (excluding other factors such as cologne etc.) than you or I--as we are both female?


I just found it sort of odd that butches would be equated with the smell of testosterone.
Maybe others wish to weigh in as well.

I don't mean to nitpick, but my eye caught the word *testosterone*, and I was like oh wow...b/c I never noticed a distinct smell of testosterone on butches and thought I would ask about it.

[BullDog]

Nobody's panicked Bob. A trans man posted a link to a Craigslist ad allegedly writtten by a man in a Female Identified Butch thread and asked us what we thought. Several butches answered. Now here we are in another thread talking about again.

Personally my life doesn't revolve around men. I don't care if they are attracted to me or what they think of my masculinity. I'm neither flattered nor validated.

By the way, what are the chances of someone genuinely waxing poetic about Butch Women on either Yahoo Answers or Craigslist? Gentle readers I believe the genuine author of our beloved Ode we must affectionately refer to as Anon. The others are most likely cut and paste jobs with a few edits.

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Nobody's panicked Bob. A trans man posted a link to a Craigslist ad allegedly writtten by a man in a Female Identified Butch thread and asked us what we thought. Several butches answered. Now here we are in another thread talking about again.

Personally my life doesn't revolve around men. I don't care if they are attracted to me or what they think of my masculinity. I'm neither flattered nor validated.

By the way, what are the chances of someone genuinely waxing poetic about Butch Women on either Yahoo Answers or Craigslist? Gentle readers I believe the genuine author of our beloved Ode we must affectionately refer to as Anon. The others are most likely cut and paste jobs with a few edits.

Well then talk about something else?

And just because a piece of text is found on Yahoo Answers or craigslist does not mean it originated there, as is evidenced by their appearance here, on this site.

[apretty]

i sense panic.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Hudson

Well then talk about something else?

And just because a piece of text is found on Yahoo Answers or craigslist does not mean it originated there, as is evidenced by their appearance here, on this site.

We agree!!!

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by apretty

i sense panic.

I feel annoyed.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

FeminineAllure,

I know your Ode is heartfelt, and I am sure many butches appreciate it.

I am not writing this now to hurt your feelings or attack you, but I found this line too interesting and (after thinking about it for quite some time!) feel compelled to ask a question regarding it.

Why would a butch have any more scent of testosterone than I as a femme?

Even with an endrocine disorder (such as PCOS), where there may be a hormonal imbalance, I don't think one would be able to detect its scent. I know all women have some measure of testosterone in their systems, but, certainly for most, it is not the dominating one.

Basically, wouldn't a butch have the same basic scent or smell (excluding other factors such as cologne etc.) than you or I--as we are both female?


I just found it sort of odd that butches would be equated with the smell of testosterone.
Maybe others wish to weigh in as well.

I don't mean to nitpick, but my eye caught the word *testosterone*, and I was like oh wow...b/c I never noticed a distinct smell of testosterone on butches and thought I would ask about it.

*endocrine

---------
To the butches (do I need to say female ID?), how do you feel about being praised for the scent of testosterone?