How about butch and butch?

[Jane Bond]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

"Ruffled your feathers"

WTF, are you a troll? Or really that fucking dense?


Maybe just MAYBE you pick douche bag dates because you get what you give?


Seriously, stop typing...

WTF? What's wrong with the term, "ruffled your feathers"? What should I have used, some banal cliche that's generic enough to suit everyone? The name calling in your post is what's really offensive. Then to cast aspersions on my dates by calling them douche bags? You've ruffled my feathers and I suspect you're they type who must have the last word, so go ahead, then please block me.
This thread was between me and two women, but had nothing to do with you. Yet your excess aggression said more more about you than me. Bye now.

[Jane Bond]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Who can blame her?

Your profile sums it all up.

[homoe]

Regardless of a situation, I find making a date with someone while out with someone else, the HEIGHT of bad manners!

[fever]

I see that Jane Bond has recently come to this site, and certainly has some strong opinions. But, instead of bashing her, perhaps our more senior members could guide her how to talk on this particular site. A few senior members seem to enjoy getting the pot stirred, and I am glad that Jane Bond isn't backing down.

However, JB, some femmes don't expect the Butch to pay for things all the time, like to mow the lawn ourselves, although, having help with heavy items, or light items for that matter, are always appreciated. lol As far as withholding sex, that doesn't just happen to butches. It happens in an unhealthy relationship.

Perhaps you just need to look at the types of femmes you are attracted to, and adjust that checklist.

[Medusa]

Folks-

We are getting reported posts for this thread.

This thread is not in the Red Zone and therefore, this should not be a free-for-all for name-calling or getting too personal.
Please be civil to one another and do your best to choose language that is thoughtful and accessible.

Yes, this thread is going to bring up static for some folks but that doesn't mean we need to be cyber-slapping the shit out of each other.

Thanks,
Medusa aka Admin

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Jane Bond

Hi Cheryl,
Perhaps because I have been out for three decades, I have indeed run into more than a few femmes who acted exactly as I described. Of course I agree that most femmes have evolved since the 70's and 80's, but as I told T-Rex, I recently dated three blast from the past gimme gimme-style femmes, and it freaked me out. I should have slept on it a few more days before posting. I'm sorry if I ruffled your feathers with my Neanderthal grumblings. Subtlety has never been my long suit.

Jane Bond- Perhaps your use of the term 'ruffled feathers' wouldn't sound quite as dismissive had you not prefaced it with your previous dismissive and sexist posts. 'Ruffled feathers' is one way that men habitually speak about women who remind them of clucking hens. I have no feathers to ruffle, being an adult woman, and all. In fact, I was and am legitimately disgusted by your language and your attitude. I should remind you that YOU ARE a woman. When you write in a derogatory way about women in general, you're writing about yourself.

I was rather gentle in my first response to you. I advise you not to poke me again.

[JDeere]

I agree with Homoe, it was very bad manners to make another date right in your face, Ia m sorry that happened.

However, who cares if its butch/butch, femme/femme, etc, as long as it is between two conseual adults then it shouldn't matter.

I live by the 3 f's, If you AREN'T Financing, Fucking or Feeding me, then your opinion doesn't matter.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by JDeere

I agree with Homoe, it was very bad manners to make another date right in your face, Ia m sorry that happened.

However, who cares if its butch/butch, femme/femme, etc, as long as it is between two conseual adults then it shouldn't matter.

I live by the 3 f's, If you AREN'T Financing, Fucking or Feeding me, then your opinion doesn't matter.

See, I think that it is only the one I am fucking whose opinion matters.

My parents' opinion when they were financing and feeding me really didn't matter (maybe their rules, but not their opinions on me as a person).

Since then, I have financed and fed myself.

But, I do care about the opinion of those I fuck.

The end.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

See, I think that it is only the one I am fucking whose opinion matters.

My parents' opinion when they were financing and feeding me really didn't matter (maybe their rules, but not their opinions on me as a person).

Since then, I have financed and fed myself.

But, I do care about the opinion of those I fuck.

The end.

It means that others opinions aka outsiders don't matter, not the people you are fucking, etc.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Jane Bond

Sorry, it's a complicated topic and hard to avoid generalizations. I should have said This Butch does this and that. All better?

Actually no, it isn't all better; that last sarcastic bit made it just that much worse. It is actually very easy to avoid generalizations by saying something like "the women I have dated" do this or that. Your statements, and I'm sure you are very aware, were meant to bring all femmes into this shitty stereotype you've put out there. Perhaps you should broaden your horizons and meet a few femmes that can actually pump their own gas, cut their own meat, and make a living for themselves.

[QueenofSmirks]

Back to the topic...

Although I've always considered myself open-minded, I recognize that I had some very close-minded ideas in my early 20's. I'm ashamed to admit, but I thought bisexuals were afraid of commitment, and butches wanted to be like men. However, at the same time, I was one of the few in the queer community at large who understood, and lived, the butch-femme dynamic. That was a no-no in those days; in fact, being femme was frowned upon where I lived. I was accused of "trying to pass for straight."

Over the years I came to realize that people can be fluid in their gender identity, and who they love, fuck, build lives with, etc. can also be fluid.

As long as people are happy, and it's consensual, it's all good.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by JDeere

It means that others opinions aka outsiders don't matter, not the people you are fucking, etc.

I know, buddy, I was tired and in a quirky mood. I was just messing around.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

I know, buddy, I was tired and in a quirky mood. I was just messing around.

Okay LOL!

[Jane Bond]

Originally Posted by fever

I see that Jane Bond has recently come to this site, and certainly has some strong opinions. But, instead of bashing her, perhaps our more senior members could guide her how to talk on this particular site. A few senior members seem to enjoy getting the pot stirred, and I am glad that Jane Bond isn't backing down.

However, JB, some femmes don't expect the Butch to pay for things all the time, like to mow the lawn ourselves, although, having help with heavy items, or light items for that matter, are always appreciated. lol As far as withholding sex, that doesn't just happen to butches. It happens in an unhealthy relationship.

Perhaps you just need to look at the types of femmes you are attracted to, and adjust that checklist.

Thanks Fever, I really appreciate it.
I hate to admit it, but I did most of my lesbian community & PC feminist stuff back in grad school and college, then I got a job, into a LTR and we both drifted away from the latest in Sapphic theory.
The femme behavior I described used a bit of hyperbole, because I had no idea this site was so stacked with PC police, Feminist volunteer editors and other literal types.
I don't back down easily if an issue is important and in real time, but a disagreeable website comment someone made would not make the list.
I am rather new here, but after a few comments, I felt like a thousand ducks had pecked me so I got lost for a while.
As memory serves, I've apologized to a few members whom I had offended, but I'd really prefer to speak my mind and make mistakes in order to learn the newest trends in BF relationships, even if I sound antiquated.
Teaching I like, lecturing, not so much.

[Jane Bond]

Originally Posted by homoe

Regardless of a situation, I find making a date with someone while out with someone else, the HEIGHT of bad manners!

No Sh*t! We had just slept together the night before and that always signals to me a rapid approaching commitment. woops.

[imperfect_cupcake]

It's ok. I get fucked off because I tend to wind up with butches who: want me to be a house maid and do all the cleaning, do all the cooking, make sure we are on par with writing budget costs, play nursey for them whenever they get sick, look after their dog(s) when they are hung over, do the grocery shopping, do all the admin stuff with bills and letters, talk to the health services and bank and gas people if they call and out my number as the contact, talk to their parents and charm them when they don't want to talk to them, deal with their siblings in the same way, buy the birthday and Christmas presents for their family members, remind them of appointments, do their fucking laundry, and because I'm a massage therapist, give them a nice rub too. All while I'm working to bring in cash.

Cause I'm the girl. And if I don't do it, I'm a selfish princess and they pull the Little Lord Fauntleroy move of sulking in a corner for days and expecting me to emotionally care take and suck up and ask whats wrong honey?

And this is why I don't ever, ever want to live with someone again. I know it's not all butches. Just mostly the ones I attract as I'm a giant magnet because I'm codependent and *will* care take to exhaustion because of my upbringing. People will take advantage of that self destructive streak of mine.

So I'm going to date but only who don't want a domestic servant, PA and nurse because I won't be living with them.

That crosses about 90% of folks off the list. That's ok. I'd rather be on my own and happy, than taken for granted and sad and tired and lonely over it.

I've been single 3 years now and it's bliss. And I am thinking about femme daddies.

Also, my dyke flatmate has her gf over and she's cleaning the house for us every day. I've never had a housewife before. Fuck me, having a maid is great!

Which only underlines why I ain't doing it anymore lol

If you want a house cleaner - hire one
If you want a PA - hire one
If you want a massage therapist my rates are $90 for 60 minutes.

If you want a companion, a friend, someone to laugh with and hot sex, let's hang out.

Femme Daddies and strapping Stems included.

I think we all get fed up when we let others take advantage of things we aren't good with, with our boundaries. Solution? Get better boundaries.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Oh, as an aside

We only have the words you use to go on. No tone, no body language. So unless you type #hyperbole #imbeinoverdramatic next to what you write, we have no idea you don't mean what you say.

And that's Dutchess Feminazi to you.

[Jane Bond]

Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake

Oh, as an aside

We only have the words you use to go on. No tone, no body language. So unless you type #hyperbole #imbeinoverdramatic next to what you write, we have no idea you don't mean what you say.

And that's Dutchess Feminazi to you.

Dear Dutchess Feminazi,
As far as body language goes, I always stand up to post messages so I can twerk. As I twerk and type, I read aloud in a voice that tries to imitate Leonard Cohen.
As far as meaning what I say; to tell you the truth, sometimes I lie.
Ooops, just kidding.

[Jane Bond]

[QUOTE=imperfect_cupcake;1027939]It's ok. I get fucked off because I tend to wind up with butches who: want me to be a house maid and do all the cleaning, do all the cooking, make sure we are on par with writing budget costs, play nursey for them whenever they get sick, look after their dog(s) when they are hung over, do the grocery shopping, do all the admin stuff with bills and letters, talk to the health services and bank and gas people if they call and out my number as the contact, talk to their parents and charm them when they don't want to talk to them, deal with their siblings in the same way, buy the birthday and Christmas presents for their family members, remind them of appointments, do their fucking laundry, and because I'm a massage therapist, give them a nice rub too. All while I'm working to bring in cash.<<<

You really mean that you've encountered some butches who are that demanding and locked in that kind of 1950s male husband stereotype? I have never met a femme who would do all that, or any butch who expected her femme to act that way. The femmes I have known and loved have been feminists, had careers, took no sh*t, but they were nurturing, sexy, fun to be around and willing to split household duties and expenses 50/50. Not to mention the lingerie, ooh la la.

[SaltyButch]

You know it's funny the things that pop up on your screen and catch your attention on any given day. So I saw this thread and my old self would have just scanned and moved on, but my new self feels the need to comment.

I have evolved as a person and moreso a gay person over the years....and anyone who knows me will tell you that I adore femmes and the energy they exude. Let me also say that I feel that everyone should love and enjoy whomever they wish with the obvious caveats attached.

I detest labels but sometimes you just need to wear one...I am a female identified butch, that is but one "label". I've noticed that at times the energy that exudes from someone just gets to me and I've been even more surprised that it's from another butch. I readily admit that this has been with online conversation and has led to some very hot and intimate discussions....so the butch/butch desire doesn't seem so taboo to me anymore. I'm not sure if I could pursue this in real time but you know I've learned never say never. Life is too short not to enjoy it and with whoever brings the joy to you.