06-28-2011, 08:56 AM | #1 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
human femme spitfire Preferred Pronoun?:
she/her Relationship Status:
it's official! Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: east coast USA
Posts: 1,167
Thanks: 3,758
Thanked 3,220 Times in 753 Posts
Rep Power: 21474850 |
Gender Neutral Kindergarten in Sweden
I came across this article and thought it was fantastic that Sweden is liberal enough to allow this school to exist, and that the children are free to exist in a non-gendered environment. Just curious what you all think about this.
Quote:
http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle...rls_equal.html
__________________
The joy of discovery is certainly the liveliest that the mind of man can ever feel. - Claude Bernard (1813-78) |
|
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to ScandalAndy For This Useful Post: |
06-28-2011, 09:07 AM | #2 |
Timed Out - TOS Drama
How Do You Identify?:
........ Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ........
Posts: 2,402
Thanks: 4,981
Thanked 8,925 Times in 1,834 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
I have to agree (somewhat) with the last sentence. While the concept itself is quite lovely, in order for a gender neutral theme to remain consistent it needs to be actively engaged in a child's life for longer than 9 months to a year of kindergarten. If gender classifications were nullified for say grades K-3 the impact could have a much grander and long-lasting effect. I love it, none the less!
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Novelafemme For This Useful Post: |
06-28-2011, 09:36 AM | #3 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
not sure Preferred Pronoun?:
Guess Relationship Status:
Guess Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: not sure
Posts: 220
Thanks: 3
Thanked 36 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 571955 |
Where do I live?
I can't remember. Who am I? |
06-28-2011, 10:21 AM | #4 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
human femme spitfire Preferred Pronoun?:
she/her Relationship Status:
it's official! Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: east coast USA
Posts: 1,167
Thanks: 3,758
Thanked 3,220 Times in 753 Posts
Rep Power: 21474850 |
Thanks, that's ten seconds of my life I will never get back.
__________________
The joy of discovery is certainly the liveliest that the mind of man can ever feel. - Claude Bernard (1813-78) |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ScandalAndy For This Useful Post: |
06-28-2011, 10:24 AM | #5 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
cisBUTCH Preferred Pronoun?:
hey Relationship Status:
Single - gave up the farce Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 265
Thanks: 103
Thanked 756 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 8194251 |
Quote:
The Swedes are confusing sex with gender. (A common mistake these days.) This is erasure, not correction. There is nothing wrong with the terms "her" or "him". The problem resides in gender constructs. Words can be manufactured, manipulated, misapplied and misappropriated, but bias resides in the heart not on the tongue. |
|
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Chazz For This Useful Post: |
06-28-2011, 10:30 AM | #6 |
Timed Out - TOS Drama
How Do You Identify?:
........ Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ........
Posts: 2,402
Thanks: 4,981
Thanked 8,925 Times in 1,834 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
Nixing traditional gender roles, as applicable to small children, is what they are getting at. At least that is how I read it. The language is being adapted to read as "friends" rather than "him/her, etc" so as to accommodate the small people. The theoretical concept of creating a gender neutral space for children to experience life is fascinating to me. The logistics would be a bit tricky, but it looks like they are doing a great job!
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Novelafemme For This Useful Post: |
06-28-2011, 10:32 AM | #7 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
human femme spitfire Preferred Pronoun?:
she/her Relationship Status:
it's official! Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: east coast USA
Posts: 1,167
Thanks: 3,758
Thanked 3,220 Times in 753 Posts
Rep Power: 21474850 |
Quote:
I'm not sure I completely understand what you're saying, so before I disagree with you I wonder if you would be so kind as to clarify that for me a bit? My interpretation was that they were eschewing traditional gender roles by placing toys associated with those roles with each other (among other things, such as gender neutral pronouns and suggesting non-traditional family structures during playtime) so as not to reinforce the separation of behaviors.
__________________
The joy of discovery is certainly the liveliest that the mind of man can ever feel. - Claude Bernard (1813-78) |
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ScandalAndy For This Useful Post: |
06-28-2011, 10:35 AM | #8 |
Timed Out - TOS Drama
How Do You Identify?:
........ Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ........
Posts: 2,402
Thanks: 4,981
Thanked 8,925 Times in 1,834 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
"Words can be manufactured, manipulated, misapplied and misappropriated, but bias resides in the heart not on the tongue."
Beautiful statement, truly...but try to keep in mind that at this age children are not biased. Biases come a bit later in life after (as you stated) language has been misappropriated and gendered. |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Novelafemme For This Useful Post: |
06-28-2011, 11:16 AM | #9 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
cisBUTCH Preferred Pronoun?:
hey Relationship Status:
Single - gave up the farce Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 265
Thanks: 103
Thanked 756 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 8194251 |
Well, there are differing schools of thought as to "gender roles, as applicable to small children" and adults.
Some argue that gender roles are innate regardless of sex; others that they are largely conditioned. This is largely a political debate as science has not, yet, spoken definitively on the matter. (The Swedes seem to be leaning towards the "conditioned" side of the debate.) In any event, I'm discussing grammar, not politics. I'll stick with non-erasure and changing gender constructs over wordplay, albeit, even on a part time basis. Sex = male and female Gender = masculine and feminine Male = he, him Female = she, her (RE: The World Health Organization) |
The Following User Says Thank You to Chazz For This Useful Post: |
06-28-2011, 11:23 AM | #10 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
human femme spitfire Preferred Pronoun?:
she/her Relationship Status:
it's official! Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: east coast USA
Posts: 1,167
Thanks: 3,758
Thanked 3,220 Times in 753 Posts
Rep Power: 21474850 |
Quote:
Okay, so wouldn't toy placement and encouragement of alternative family structures be considered changing gender constructs? If we're looking at masculine and feminine in terms of behaviors, that is.
__________________
The joy of discovery is certainly the liveliest that the mind of man can ever feel. - Claude Bernard (1813-78) |
|
06-28-2011, 11:33 AM | #11 |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
Butch Preferred Pronoun?:
JAGG Relationship Status:
=) Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tulsa (cat free zone)
Posts: 6,093
Thanks: 18,651
Thanked 17,545 Times in 4,142 Posts
Rep Power: 21474857 |
unsure
I think by the time they start school they are between ages 4-6. What they have experienced at home is already ingrained. Not to mention the fact they return home daily. I like the idea of not pressuring a child into a gender role so to speak. It gives them more freedom to choose what they truely prefer. But I don't think it will have too much of an impact. I'd be interested to see the outcome. Just my humble opinion.
__________________
I don't want to spend my life with someone I can live with, I want to spend my life with someone I can't live without. |
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JAGG For This Useful Post: |
06-28-2011, 11:42 AM | #12 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
cisBUTCH Preferred Pronoun?:
hey Relationship Status:
Single - gave up the farce Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 265
Thanks: 103
Thanked 756 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 8194251 |
Quote:
My EX's 4 year old called me, "Mr. Chazz", from day one. Although the following excerpt is about race, not gender constructs, it makes the case for how children are, in fact, biased at a very young age. Children Are Not Colorblind: How Young Children Learn Race "Toddlers as young as two years use racial categories to reason about people’s behaviors (Hirschfeld, 2008), and numerous studies show that three-to five-year-olds not only categorize people by race, but express bias based on race (Aboud, 2008; Hirschfeld, 2008; Katz, 2003; Patterson & Bigler, 2006). In a yearlong study, Van Ausdale & Feagin (2001) found that three- to five-year-olds in a racially and ethnically diverse day care center used racial categories to identify themselves and others, to include or exclude children from activities, and to negotiate power in their own social/play networks."(Erin N. Winkler, Ph.D. - University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee) http://www4.uwm.edu/letsci/africolog...colorblind.pdf |
|
06-28-2011, 11:46 AM | #13 | |
Timed Out - TOS Drama
How Do You Identify?:
........ Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ........
Posts: 2,402
Thanks: 4,981
Thanked 8,925 Times in 1,834 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
Quote:
|
|
06-28-2011, 11:51 AM | #14 | |
Senior Member
How Do You Identify?:
Girly girl femme Preferred Pronoun?:
She; Ma'am; Miss ;) Relationship Status:
Pitbull protected. Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,204
Thanks: 6,892
Thanked 7,689 Times in 1,610 Posts
Rep Power: 21474852 |
Quote:
Now, one thing that I am hopeful about-if parents are sending their children to this school, then surely, they are teaching the proper values at home to support the lessons learned at the school. I would have gladly sent my children to this school had an option like this been available during those years in their lives-or in my area for that matter. I think they all would have fit in wonderfully. But there again, they were taught, at home, to accept and embrace the differences of others.
__________________
There are beauties who stop traffic and then there are beauties who grow obsessively in the hearts of the susceptible. |
|
06-28-2011, 11:59 AM | #15 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
cisBUTCH Preferred Pronoun?:
hey Relationship Status:
Single - gave up the farce Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 265
Thanks: 103
Thanked 756 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 8194251 |
Quote:
Moving toys around a room from one set of hands to another isn't change - it's a reconfiguration of the same constructs. The constructs have to change. If by "alternative family structures" you mean, LGBTQs "making" a nuclear family, no to that, too. |
|
06-28-2011, 12:03 PM | #16 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
cisBUTCH Preferred Pronoun?:
hey Relationship Status:
Single - gave up the farce Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 265
Thanks: 103
Thanked 756 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 8194251 |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Chazz For This Useful Post: |
06-28-2011, 12:08 PM | #17 | |
Timed Out - TOS Drama
How Do You Identify?:
........ Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ........
Posts: 2,402
Thanks: 4,981
Thanked 8,925 Times in 1,834 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
Quote:
|
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Novelafemme For This Useful Post: |
06-28-2011, 12:12 PM | #18 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
cisBUTCH Preferred Pronoun?:
hey Relationship Status:
Single - gave up the farce Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 265
Thanks: 103
Thanked 756 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 8194251 |
Quote:
|
|
06-28-2011, 12:13 PM | #19 |
Timed Out - TOS Drama
How Do You Identify?:
........ Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ........
Posts: 2,402
Thanks: 4,981
Thanked 8,925 Times in 1,834 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
This gave me a chuckle. In one of my spring classes the professor used the term "social construct" SO much that when it came time for me to give my oral presentation and she asked everyone to gather in a circle around me, I told her I felt the placement of the chairs was a social construct. hehehehe
|
06-28-2011, 12:14 PM | #20 |
Timed Out - TOS Drama
How Do You Identify?:
........ Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ........
Posts: 2,402
Thanks: 4,981
Thanked 8,925 Times in 1,834 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Novelafemme For This Useful Post: |
|
|