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Old 02-21-2015, 06:31 AM   #1
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Default Childhood Vaccines: Anti-vax V Science?

Curious as to people's thoughts on the whole anti-vax movement?

I saw an article this morning where Dr. Sanjay Gupta talked about how measles and all but been eliminated a few years ago and now hundreds of cases of measles are popping up all over the place.

I know there have been multiple articles about anti-vaxers believing that vaccines cause autism and such but I'm curious if we have any folks here who struggled with whether or not to vaccinate their kids?

Thoughts, ideas welcome!
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Old 02-21-2015, 07:46 AM   #2
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It's bollocks. It threatens the health of children who are not vaccinated; it threatens societal herd immunity at large; and with the right wing in the US already being as aggressively anti-science as it is, we certainly don't need a left-wing anti-science movement like the anti-vax movement.

Moreover, the entire thing is based upon a study that got pulled for using bad methodology. A study getting pulled for bad methodology is not a conspiracy, and no one should be endangering the health of their children and everyone around them over a single bad study in the face of all of the perfectly good ones that have found vaccines safe and effective.

A heads-up for those who would actually consider not having their children vaccinated: we don't have to deal with horrible diseases like smallpox and polio anymore because vaccines work. Vaccines are the reason you don't have to worry about your children getting smallpox or polio. Consider that by not getting your children vaccinated, you're exposing them to the risk of new outbreaks of dangerous, already-defeated diseases because a study that got pulled for its bad methodology told you to. Please protect your children from easily prevented diseases.
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Old 02-21-2015, 09:14 AM   #3
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I do not have children but do have lots of nieces and nephews, though. I have spoken with my siblings on this issue and we all agree, that vaccines do work and that people need to vaccinate their children so others do not suffer. Especially children and some adults with compromised immune systems.

I will be damned, as an adult with a compromised immune system, that some anti vaxer and their children get me sick or damn near kill me, that is why I stay away from children in the neighborhood, etc.

Vaccinate your kids so the rest of us don't have to suffer!
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Old 02-21-2015, 09:27 AM   #4
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I'm for vaccinations for ALL children. I think it's horrible that there are those parents that choose not to vaccinate their children and then they get ill and some have died from getting measles and other diseases. It's bad enough we have 3rd world countries that don't vaccinate and keep these diseases around, we don't need them here in the US. Measles is on the rise in the US in just about every state due to people choosing to follow that study that was pulled and found to have bad methodology. Autism isn't caused by vaccinations and there is NO valid proof it is.

As far as the measles outbreak, the US DEPT of HEALTH is asking even older adults and seniors to get revaccinated because the vacccines don't last your lifetime. It only lasts several years. To avoid a widespread epidemic worse than what already is, please go get re-vaccinated for measles, mumps, and rubella...MMR vaccine shot. I'm going to talk to my doctor about it for myself on my next appointment. I don't want to come into contact with any child that hasn't been vaccinated and there are a lot of kids where I live.
Personally, I would NEVER take the risk of not vaccinating my child VS them getting sick with a disease that is harmful or deadly. I've been vaccinated and I didn't get autism from it, and several million others in the US didn't either.
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Old 02-21-2015, 09:29 AM   #5
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this gives a great summary of the laws regulating vaccines state by state:

http://www.nvic.org/vaccine-laws/sta...uirements.aspx


the debate is to take away the religious and philosophical exemptions to protect those with low immune systems from being exposed to potentially deadly viruses

dont get a vaccination if you dont need it, lots of vaccinations are by choice (flu, pneumonia, shingles) but mandatory vaccinations for school children protect everyone...

this is a summary of who needs a measles vaccine:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/...c-in-short.htm
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Old 02-21-2015, 09:31 AM   #6
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Allison is right. The autism-vaccination "study" was flawed; autism is far more complicated than that, and we don't have a great understanding of "it" (there are many degrees of autism and its behaviors).

I was born just as vaccines for polio and measles came in. Polio left its victims paralyzed and/or in breathing tubes-if it didn't kill them. Measles, mumps, diptheria, and rubella were all fatal in the first half of the 20th century. Smallpox was of course a killer for centuries, and its more mild cousin, the chicken pox, can leave you vulnerable to shingles later in life and is just miserable. There's a shot for that nowadays, but I have immunity the old-fashioned way. You name it, my kids and myself got the vaccine. My daughter also had a shot against cervical cancer, even though that is much newer.

I know parents have the right to not vaccinate, but I have the right to keep them away (when they were younger).
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:11 PM   #7
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I think that it depends on the severity of the illness whether vaccinations are warranted or not. It is big business and there is a lot of money to be made on the sale of the vaccines world wide. Anytime there are large amounts of money to be made on human suffering, the money seems to become more important than the humans. So when I see an over kill of vaccines for minor illnesses I have to question that.

It goes against all my motherly instincts to bombard the immune system of an infant with vaccines, yet I want to protect them from life threatening illnesses or those that mame or cripple...........

My older children were vaccinated, my youngest was not. They all got the same basic childhood illnesses anyway......

I think it may be more important if you have substandard living conditions, like in third world countries. But then again, if all that money was poured into clean water and and sanitary living conditions and good food would they be needed?
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amulette View Post
I think that it depends on the severity of the illness whether vaccinations are warranted or not. It is big business and there is a lot of money to be made on the sale of the vaccines world wide. Anytime there are large amounts of money to be made on human suffering, the money seems to become more important than the humans. So when I see an over kill of vaccines for minor illnesses I have to question that.

It goes against all my motherly instincts to bombard the immune system of an infant with vaccines, yet I want to protect them from life threatening illnesses or those that mame or cripple...........

My older children were vaccinated, my youngest was not. They all got the same basic childhood illnesses anyway......

I think it may be more important if you have substandard living conditions, like in third world countries. But then again, if all that money was poured into clean water and and sanitary living conditions and good food would they be needed?
I have to say that the US is NOT a 3rd world country, our water supplies are mostly sanitary and so are our living conditions for the most part. HOW do you EXPLAIN the outbreak of Measles (which is a deadly) disease here in the US, that was eradicated back in my childhood in the 60's and 70's ?????? smh
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:32 PM   #9
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Hey Tex, Do you really know anyone who died from measles? I have not in my life met someone who lost a child from measles. I had them at least 3 times and was fully vaccinated, and live to tell the story.... Now Hep B, that is a different story. I vaccinated for that as as adult.... I do believe keeping your immune system healthy is the best preventative medicine, with help in extreme circumstances. MHO
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:36 PM   #10
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Amulette, actually there are cases when children here in tx have died from measles and in other states as well. so YES there are deaths in the past.
Look it up. Measles causes respiratory illness in which children and immune compromised children and adults can't fight off. There is no cure for measles, there is only vaccine for it that strengthens the immune system by recognizing the disease and it's markers, so if you do get it, it's not as bad. As an adult our prior vacccines as children become less effective and our immune systems tend not to remember the markers for the diseases we were vaccinated for, therefore we still get the diseases and sometimes it's worse as an adult than if we were vaccinated and caught it as children and were able to fight it off.

Vaccines don't make you unable to catch a particular disease, they only help your immune system to fight them off better by recognizing them faster and knowing how keep them from getting a full on strong hold on your system.

I think that too many people in the world don't understand how the immune systems works and how vaccines work along with immune system and they need to do their own research to get educated instead of listening to a bunch of folks that don't know anything about it and are spreading bad information and fear. There is no cure for hepatitis either.



Amulette,
you mentioned hepatitis vaccine and that you got that one? well it's no different really than any other vaccine you took as a child. it eventually wears off and doesn't Prevent you from getting hepatitis, it only helps your immune system recognize it so it doesn't get a foot hold and become full blown, so your immune system can fight it off.

ETA: I think this is going to be a hotly debated topic on the site.
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Old 02-21-2015, 01:37 PM   #11
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I like this signature line on one of the member's of our site.............................Are you Educated or Indoctrinated????
Debate debate debate coming.


I do have a question to those that choose NOT to vaccinate your children....


Would you put YOUR child in a room of with smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, or any other diseases you can be vaccinated for?
Why not? Apparently, you don't think they can die from them? hmmmm......
something to ponder isn't it? But when you choose NOT to vaccinate you are putting your children at high risk, along with general public, to spread disease when you contract it because you choose NOT to vaccinate. Just my opinion and I choose to have one very loudly when it comes to this topic.
If you say NO, you wouldn't choose to put your child at risk in a room of those type diseases, then why do you choose to PUT others at risk because your child isn't vaccinated? SMDH
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:01 PM   #12
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When i was a child, i had friend with a Mother in an iron lung from contracting Polio, as well as a teacher who used crutches and leg braces. Those things burned deeply into my childhood memories, and made me grateful that we no longer lived in the past.

I honestly can't understand anyone that would put their children at risk for disfigurement, sterility (mumps in males), death, pain, etc... However i do get the American outlook that laws apply to everyone but them, and it can't possibly happen to me/mine.
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:29 PM   #13
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I had the mumps, I had chicken pox, I was vaccinated against measels, and polio, but not German measels. When you* the parent do not vaccinate your child and allow them into the world you are placing other kids at risk, and you don't have a right to do that. As the saying goes, your rights end at the beginning of another's nose. Diseases don't discriminate, they will attack anyone who isn't vaccinated, most are highly contagious, so when you put others at risk you are, in my view, committing an assault. I am allergic to many medicines, there are many kids who because their immune systems are compromised either by cancer or some other disease, you are putting them at risk. There is no credible science that says these vaccinations cause any autism on any spectrum. Notice the word credible. So when ones parental fear over giving their kid a scientifically proven credible effective vaccine interfears with other peoples right at a healthy life, then their fear is a cop out.
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:49 PM   #14
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Immunizations, like any medication, can cause side effects. However, a decision not to immunize a child also involves risk. It is a decision to put
the child and others who come into contact with him or her at risk of contracting a disease that could be dangerous or deadly. Consider measles. One out of 17 children with measles gets pneumonia. For every 1,000 children who get the disease, one or two will die from it. Thanks to vaccines, we have few cases of measles in the U.S. today. However, the disease is extremely contagious, and each year dozens of cases are imported from abroad into the U.S., threatening the health of people who have not been vaccinated and those for whom the vaccine was not effective. Unvaccinated children are also at risk from meningitis (swelling of the lining of the brain) caused by Hib (a severe bacterial infection), bloodstream infections caused by pneumococcus, deafness caused by mumps, and liver cancer caused by hepatitis B virus.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/dow.../f_vacsafe.pdf
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Old 02-27-2015, 04:35 PM   #15
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I just found this while poking around at random on the Intarwebs, but, relevant.
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:02 PM   #16
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what they say is right for me and mine. I don't have any reason NOT to vaccinate a child. And I personally wouldn't put MY child at risk or anyone elses for that matter.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:20 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Amulette View Post
Hey Tex, Do you really know anyone who died from measles? I have not in my life met someone who lost a child from measles. I had them at least 3 times and was fully vaccinated, and live to tell the story.... Now Hep B, that is a different story. I vaccinated for that as as adult.... I do believe keeping your immune system healthy is the best preventative medicine, with help in extreme circumstances. MHO
It's extremely rare to get measles more than once, so if you've "had them at least 3 times", it says far more about your immune system than the vaccine. Surviving the disease will provide far more immunity than a vaccine will.

And yes, sometimes vaccines do fail. But I don't get that as a reason for not getting them at all. Not knowing anyone who has the disease seems to me a greater reason for getting the vaccine, and that herd immunity is working. I'm pretty sure that's why I don't personally know anyone who has died of measles.

That said, sometimes the FDA gets it wrong, and pharmaceutical companies have shown a shocking lack of ethics. They can certainly stand to have their feet held to the fire. And in the medical fix-it era of Lipitor and Lotensin, it's good that we're starting to put more emphasis on healthy lifestyle choices and are thinking more critically about what goes into our bodies. I just wish the skepticism was a bit more fact-based.

But I admit I’ve lost objectivity since learning that some anti-vaxxers have blamed the Disneyland measles outbreak on immigrants. And the Amish. Choice is indeed a great thing, and how wonderful that the anti-vax crowd is allowed to make it! But to blame another (less privileged) group for making the same choice (or not even having the choice)… well, that's about as flawed as the autism study.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:40 PM   #18
Martina
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My thinking is if you don't vaccinate your kid, you don't get access to public schools. End of debate. Or it should be. If you want to home school or have access to private schools and feel that strongly about it, I do not want the government to physically seize your child and force medication into her or him. But you don't get to put them in public schools.

To hell with the religious exemption. It should not exist. I had whooping cough. It lasted for nearly four months. I lived in Northern CA at the time, a place where many people do not immunize. I saw in the NYT that something like 50 percent of the students in the Petaluma School District are not fully immunized. The religious exemption is not being used by Christian Scientists but by privileged people who participate in alternative health practices. Fine. Do whatever. Just stay out of the public schools is all I ask.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:50 PM   #19
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Then they have to stay out of the grocery stores, parks, bathrooms, public spaces. These diseases are HIGHLY contagious. There is no place where they can not infect others, not just schools.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martina View Post
alternative health practices
There's a damn good saying I've heard on this; I think it comes from Tim Minchin. Namely, there is no such thing as alternative medicine. There is only medicine, and the rest is stuff that has not been proven to work.
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