US Citizen Married in Canada? You may only THINK you're married...

[Tawse]

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...egally-married


Apparently - there's a movement to make it so that if you can't legally get married where you live - then your marriage in Canada is null and void.

[girl_dee]

I read about this, this morning.. what a mess...

This happened in the states when one state allowed marriage and they had an influx of people running to get a license and get married. WHen they realized
no one was actually a state citizen they stopped it and issued mandates for state citizenship (UNless you came from a state that allowed gay marriage) and grandfathered the previous ones in.

They better come up with something, I don't think they want to mess with a bunch of queers stuck in marriages they don't want to be stuck in!

[Tawse]

my problems are these:


#1 - don't encourage people to come get married in your country (have them pay the fees etc) and then say "PSYCH!" That's rude.


#2 - What about couples where one is a Canadian citizen and one is not? What now? Am I not married but Gillian is? Are neither of us married?

[girl_dee]

I know! It's awful, they were selling wedding packages for folks to come here to get married.

One of the states in the US adopted the rule that one of the parties had to be a citizen residing more than one year.

I have NO idea how Canada is going to handle this or what the rules actually were. And if any rules were broken when these licenses were issued, whose fault is that!?

It's going to be a tax, custody and benefit nightmare if all these marriages are overturned. They cannot possibly realize the ramifications of making this happen.

[Tawse]

Really wish it didn't snow up there - I'd move in a heartbeat (yes this is still all the US's fault since they are the idjits with their heads stuck up their asses).

[EnderD_503]

More than likely the reason the "Canadian government" (since Harper has come to power, now known as the "Harper Government" according to official government letterhead) is doing this is because same-sex marriage was made legal in Canada under a Liberal federal government. Since coming to power, Harper has vowed not to challenge human rights laws the Liberals put into place (same-sex marriage and abortion rights among them). However, he and his rightwing, evangelist MPs have gone out of their way to make it extremely difficult for women to find abortion clinics across Canada. Additionally, he and his MPs have rallied in order to make it difficult for women in impoverished countries with very few, if any, women's rights, where the organisation of Planned Parenthood also operates, to get abortions or birth control. These MPs (backed by Harper) claimed they did not want to "push Canadian values on the traditional values of other nations."

And this appears to be the same approach this conservative Harper Government (TM) is taking with same-sex marriage. They won't try to seriously reopen the question in Canada, however, they are going to try to hinder the process as much as they can. They are doing so again with this attempt at reneging marriage certificates of non-Canadians in Canada, when any other marriage would be perfectly legal. This is their way of sticking it to same-sex couples, simply because they can't do it to same-sex Canadian couples.

[Words]

Blue (US) and I (UK) heard when W/we got married in Vancouver in 2004 that should W/we ever decide to divoce, one of U/us would have to live in Canada for a year beforehand. Since neither of U/us would ever be able to do that, it's probably the main reason W/we're still together

Seriously, though, it's taken them this long to come up with this? It's nuts.

Words

[Honey]

In the state of Maine I can marry my cousin but NOT my gf...talked about backwoods, inbred and fucked up !!

[Tawse]

Ditto that Words - that's what Gillian and I were told as well. 1 year residency = can file for divorce.

[betenoire]

I think this will go away. It might take going all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada - but it will go away.

Basically what seems to have happened (I've read every article I could find on the situation this morning) is that the couple tried to get a divorce in Ontario. Now, while Canada does not have residency requirements for Marriage it DOES have them for Divorce (yes, it's stupid).

So instead of doing the smart thing and making it so that anybody who got married here can get divorced here regardless of residency.....some douchebag was like "well, since you can't get divorced and your countries don't recognise your marriage anyway....I guess you're not really married."

It doesn't end here. I think we can count on the higher courts to fix this.

[suebee]

CBC article on same topic.

[foxyshaman]

Originally Posted by Tawse

Really wish it didn't snow up there - I'd move in a heartbeat (yes this is still all the US's fault since they are the idjits with their heads stuck up their asses).

For a second I thought you were blaming the US for our snow. I was willing to get behind you on this....

sorry for the de-rail. My brain can work in its own mysterious ways...

[foxyshaman]

Originally Posted by suebee

CBC article on same topic.

I would be interested to know which government office was asked to do the opinion in the first place. I shall dig further. After having worked within the gov't for a long time, I do know it will take more than one opinion to change anything.

Thanks for posting the article Suebee. I would be interested in seeing the original applications filed before the courts which sparked this debate.

[Kobi]

Opponents of gay marriage tried the same tactic here in Massachusetts. It was shortlived and pretty pathetic given the lameless of their rationale.

Each state has laws that govern the requirements for obtaining a marriage license and for denying one. "Recognition of a marriage outside of the Commonwealth" is not one of the reasons that can be used to deny a license here.

Is there something in Canadian law that allows a marriage license to be denied because the marriage would not be recognized somewhere else?

Divorce is trickier. Again, the laws of the state or country of jurisdiction prevail. In Mass, both straight and gay couples have to adhere to certain requirements in filing for divorce. Residency is just one of them.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Is there something in Canadian law that allows a marriage license to be denied because the marriage would not be recognized somewhere else?

No there isn't.

[betenoire]

Justice Minister vows to clarify laws on same-sex marriages

The federal government will consider changing the law to ensure non-residents married in Canada can obtain divorces, Justice Minister Rob Nicholson said Thursday afternoon.

Wading into a controversy that has quickly blown into an international cause célèbre, Mr. Nicholson made assurances the government “has no intention of reopening the debate on the definition of marriage.”

He said that under the current laws, the marriage in the case at the centre of the controversy cannot be dissolved in Canada in spite of the fact that the couple was wed in Toronto in 2005.

“I will be looking at options to clarify the law so that marriages performed in Canada can be undone in Canada,” Mr. Nicholson said.

and further down:

The reversal of federal policy was revealed in a document filed in a Toronto test case launched recently by a lesbian couple seeking a divorce. Wed in Toronto in 2005, the couple have been told they cannot divorce because they were never really married – a Department of Justice lawyer says their marriage is not legal in Canada since they could not have lawfully wed in Florida or England, where the two partners reside.

So yeah, one lawyer said it. That doesn't make it law, it just makes him an asshole. (Why do none of the articles give his name?)

[Corkey]

WTF?? Seriously this is fucked up!! I go online and find out some asshat has dissolved my marriage WITHOUT our consent!! WTF???

http://unicornbooty.com/blog/2012/01...g-dan-savages/

[suebee]

Now let's not get too excited about this yet. This is a conservative government. They can't really open up the debate on marriage equality again since it was a decision that went all the way to the Supreme Court that forced all the provinces to recognize the right of same-sex couples to marriage. This is just a back-handed tactic to appease the right-wingers. It will never stand up in court when it's challenged. If there is no residency requirement to get married then they cannot refuse a marriage license. If they refuse the license they are contravening the decision made by the Supreme Court some ten years ago. If they allow the marriage, they cannot refuse the divorce saying that the marriage didn't exist. This is right-wing politics Canadian-style. This decision will. not. stand.

Sue 's marriage is LEGAL!

[foxyshaman]

Originally Posted by suebee

Now let's not get too excited about this yet. This is a conservative government. They can't really open up the debate on marriage equality again since it was a decision that went all the way to the Supreme Court that forced all the provinces to recognize the right of same-sex couples to marriage. This is just a back-handed tactic to appease the right-wingers. It will never stand up in court when it's challenged. If there is no residency requirement to get married then they cannot refuse a marriage license. If they refuse the license they are contravening the decision made by the Supreme Court some ten years ago. If they allow the marriage, they cannot refuse the divorce saying that the marriage didn't exist. This is right-wing politics Canadian-style. This decision will. not. stand.

Sue 's marriage is LEGAL!

Agree with you Suebee. One lawyer's opinion does not change the Supreme Courts ruling.

Our premier at the time was hell bent on not allowing gay marriage. But this is also the premier who got drunk around christmas time, went to a homeless shelter, threw around money and told "those lazy assholes to get a job". Oh the "good ol' boy" days.

[Corkey]

We don't live in Canada, close but not in it, and it isn't legal in this state. This sucks and is making me ballistic.