Stone Femme?

[SweetJane]

As I posted in another thread, I have appreciated the freedom that an identity serves. When I came to the insight that I was a stone femme, it explained a lot and allowed me to accept all that I was and what I could give---without guilt. That's the big thing here.

Being stone sets boundaries. But in some circles where there is little understanding, it makes us selfish or cold in some way.

There is another connection in stone intimacy that we don't talk about. That "energy" that emerges between two stones is more than just lust. Sometimes it takes on a spiritual note because of the level of trust that is being offered. And if that couple explores areas that slip beyond vanilla, the trust and caring is magnified.

But finding that counterpart is a challenge. I am reluctant to mingle in the wider lesbian community in real time and lead with my heart because I do not want to become fond of someone, knowing I can't deliver what they want and need.

It is often a lonely road we stones walk, ever alert for that person who is our complement. But that is also what makes us who we are.

[aishah]

i relate to the term stone more emotionally rather than sexually. i have plenty of friends who are stone femmes (who have clear boundaries around touch during sex and but some also id as stone because of their emotional boundaries rather than their physical ones). my partner is a stone butch and again, although there is a big physical element for him, being stone is a big part of who he is emotionally.

i've always been very emotionally demonstrative and outgoing, as well as pretty comfortable with lots of different stuff sexually. i never thought that i would id as stone until i became a sex worker. but now i can definitely feel emotional walls as well as sometimes physical ones going up for me. this thread has been really helpful to read as this is something i'm struggling with right now (literally a lot in the last 24 hours, but also over the last year or so i think).

[boobookitty]

I was a little suprised to not see the terms, ice princess or ice queen. (I might have missed it) I have known a very feminine woman who could not tolerate being touched, but she was still very passionate. and very lovely and beautiful. She called herself an Ice Queen. Because men called her fridged. So, it was a way of reclaiming the intended insult as a compliment. She did not want to be touched, but she loved being watched.
(glassy eyed-stupid grin-good memory)

[SweetJane]

I think there are two kinds of stone femme in discussion here.

One is the stone femme who seeks out a stone butch and who respects hys desire not to be touched in intimate places not just because it is hys wish but it is because she has no desire to touch hym there. That is the kind of stone femme I am and most stone femmes are.

However there are other stone femmes who do not wish to be touched in certain areas. That is a wholly different orientation. Some of these stone femmes are tops.

[boobookitty]

Originally Posted by SweetJane

... However there are other stone femmes who do not wish to be touched in certain areas. That is a wholly different orientation. Some of these stone femmes are tops.

Yes, this is the type of woman I learned to address as Ice Queen or Ice Princess, (different than a pillow queen/ pillow princess)

[thedivahrrrself]

This is exactly why I don't ID as Stone Femme, though I only date Stone Butches/TG's. I call myself a Queer Femme because I only date those outside the gender binary.

I am with you, Jane, in the first variety of Stone Femme.

Originally Posted by SweetJane

I think there are two kinds of stone femme in discussion here.

One is the stone femme who seeks out a stone butch and who respects hys desire not to be touched in intimate places not just because it is hys wish but it is because she has no desire to touch hym there. That is the kind of stone femme I am and most stone femmes are.

However there are other stone femmes who do not wish to be touched in certain areas. That is a wholly different orientation. Some of these stone femmes are tops.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by thedivahrrrself

This is exactly why I don't ID as Stone Femme, though I only date Stone Butches/TG's. I call myself a Queer Femme because I only date those outside the gender binary.

I am with you, Jane, in the first variety of Stone Femme.

I'm a stonefemme in the first variety, too. Meaning, I have a strong boundary around touching or penetrating a partner's genitalia. BUT, I don't really ID as queer. I sometimes use that word to be inclusive and because it's easy, but it implies an opennes to other genders which I don't really have.

I'm a woman who partners with women, (very, very butch women, but women none the less), which makes me a lesbian. Now that 'lesbian' seems to be an embattled ID within b/f circles, I've become far more cranky about insisting upon using it.

[Breathless]

I was looking for a thread like this months ago, so happy it has been bumped..

I identify as lesbian, however the truth be known I fit into the label given as stone femme, some what. For me the difference is, that I don't necessarily seek out a mate that is stone butch, I do seek a mate who is very masculine. As far as the bedroom goes, I hold great respect for the boundries that are given. It is not that I don't want to touch in intimate areas, it is more that I would never ever do something that would make a mate feel uncomfortable. Intimacy between two people should always be something of pleasure and fulfillment, love and most of all respect.

I often am uncomfortable announcing in given situations that I identify as lesbian, simply because of the negative opinions that seem to come from that. I myself have boundries that I am not comfortable with.. does that make me less of a lesbian?? I am not the definition, I am just a woman who is attracted to other bio born women, even if that is not who they are today.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by boobookitty

Yes, this is the type of woman I learned to address as Ice Queen or Ice Princess, (different than a pillow queen/ pillow princess)

boobookitty, is this what the women call themselves? It sounds like a derogatory word; I have never heard it before.

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

I'm a stonefemme in the first variety, too. Meaning, I have a strong boundary around touching or penetrating a partner's genitalia. BUT, I don't really ID as queer. I sometimes use that word to be inclusive and because it's easy, but it implies an opennes to other genders which I don't really have.

I'm a woman who partners with women, (very, very butch women, but women none the less), which makes me a lesbian. Now that 'lesbian' seems to be an embattled ID within b/f circles, I've become far more cranky about insisting upon using it.

For what it is worth, Cheryl, I have never regarded this being an automatic thing and had no idea that others thought this.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

boobookitty, is this what the women call themselves? It sounds like a derogatory word; I have never heard it before.



For what it is worth, Cheryl, I have never regarded this being an automatic thing and had no idea that others thought this.

I think 'queer' has been embraced by many young people because it's non gender specific, and in some circles claiming a gender has become, well, uncool. (I also think it's attractive partly because it presents an easy solution to the awkward linguistics of LGBTI alphabet soup, but that's not really relevant to this post.) In my experience, the non-gendered word, 'queer', does invite the assumption that the femme who IDs as such would be open to a relationship with males, (trans men or male IDed people). I am not interested in any kind of male. I'm strictly interested in butch women, so I think using queer would be disingenuous for me.

It's been my experience lately that many of the people who ID as queer, do so as a f**k u and your gender, in-yer-face, kind of political statement. Believe it or not, some straight people have even started to call themselves queer. I think, though I can't speak for all of them, that some may do so because they think they're being supportive. Kind of like, "I'm Spartacus". Of course, I find it as offensive as white people calling themselves POCs in a misguided attempt to create solidarity. There are also straight people within the BDSM community who call themselves queer because they think 'queer' should encompass all sexual minorities. Don't get me wrong- I don't think either practice is AT ALL widespread! I sometimes travel in circles that encompass extreme ends of the sexual minority spectrum. Those are the circles within which I've had a few very surprising conversations with people who don't use 'queer' in ways I can relate to.

Regardless of how other people use 'queer', it's not an accurate descriptor for me.

[DapperButch]

Cheryl, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying that you thought most viewed stone femmes as being open to dating people other than women identified females. I now understand you were speaking of the descriptor queer.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

boobookitty, is this what the women call themselves? It sounds like a derogatory word; I have never heard it before.

For many, it is. Pillow princess, pillow queen, ice princess....et cetera.

I know that waaaaay before I figured out I was a Stone Femme, I was told that I was a pillow princess and it wasn't a term of affection. It came hand in hand with the terms 'selfish' and 'defective'.

[boobookitty]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

boobookitty, is this what the women call themselves? It sounds like a derogatory word; I have never heard it before.

YES! that was how she disscribed herself, with great pride and self confidence.
It was at first an insult from a man, whom she had told she was not interested.
Her manner of dress and expression is very feminie and sexually confident. Frankly she liked the effect she had on men (and women) ... Yet, there was to be no touching her... just watching.

I know that using the word, "queen" can be used/taken as an insult, in gay culture has a suggestion of maleness, (because dragqueen is so well known) ... and I will be honest, I adored my 'pillow princess' until she asked to let her husband join us, ...ah, NO.

Since than I have at times refered to her as a 'pillow queen' ... when I was miffed at her.

When I think Ice Princess, I think of all the most beautiful art, lovely to see and impossible to touch or possess. VERY much a compliment!

came back to add: think of the most beautiul female form you can imagine, sculpted in ice (or glass) ... but 'ice' suggest to me you can't keep her... to touch her is to loose her... I don't know but I suspect most pass as straight ...(romanic sigh)

[sleeplessdancer]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Actually, every person should respect every other person's sexual/emotional boundaries. Everyone has boundaries. Those boundaries can change depending on who is in the bed or not change.

For many/most? Stone Butch is about no vaginal penetration (and perhaps no anal penetration) and breasts are not breasts, but are a chest. I think it's a mixed bag concerning blow jobs and the 'little cock' (the clit), but it is in the mind set that it's a blow job not sucking a clit. I have never known a Stone Butch (or Stone Femme Top) who turned down a blow job on the 'big cock'.

Stone Femmes (who are bottoms) generally balk at wearing a cock or vaginally penetrating any Butch with their fingers. Anal is a mixed bag. It's a mixed bag about blow jobs on the little cock, but definitely a go for the big cock. Touching nipples on the chest is also a mixed bag, but I have never met a stone femme who would cup a breast in their hand to suck the nipple. It's a different kind of touch for nipples on a chest.

I am completely Stone big cock identified in kink space. In non-kink space, my sexual boundaries are entirely dependent on the femme in my (her) bed and the energy between us.

-----------------
'dash' is a reference to another butch/femme website that many many many of us frequented before this big ass planet was created....there is a dash (-) in the name.

Thanks so much for laying it out like you did. This makes it clear that I'm not a stone femme, but could be from time to time.

[StoneOne]

Love to all the Stone Femmes out there

[spritzerJ]

I borrowed this quote from the house of stone thread. I brought it here because this thread has a ? mark and I am thinking that is where this wondering goes.

Originally Posted by SilverStoneFemme

*2. A stone femme is a person who is feminine in thoughts and action, whose personal style is feminine, whose only partner is a stone butch, whose sexual style accepts the sexual boundaries and limitations of any stonebutch with grace and understanding, who never pushes the limits and boundaries of any stone butch and who loves butchcock and the masculinity of stone butches it represents.

So life, a might wind, joyous tripping has carried me far and these days I find myself looking at the definition above for stone femme or ones nearly worded as that and wonder. And I wonder more than I have since I first came out. This is good.

So I get the a person who is "feminine in thoughts and actions" part. That fits. I am more casual in my girly ways. Developing my particularities

And the part that says:"whose only partner is a stone butch" is certainly true. Just one and hy is it for me. But does this definition mean always? That is all I want. Because all I want is hym and so then that part is true. Will it always be true? That I want hym yes, that I want only others like hym? how about we not go there because that would be sad to consider.

Then of course the part of "whose sexual style accepts the sexual boundaries and limitations of any stonebutch with grace and understanding, who never pushes the limits and boundaries of any stone butch" which is a resounding yes of course.

Next up is the part of "who loves butchcock and the masculinity of stone butches it represents." Yep again, swoon for sure. Now is that the only form of masculinity I would desire? Possibly.

The sticking point for me in looking at defintions like this is that it is about the other person. Only the first part is about me. If I was going to take on an additional sexual definition that I choose to explain me and my sexual expression wouldn't I state it in terms of my expression?

Still working on this obviously.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by jenna8987

...
The sticking point for me in looking at defintions like this is that it is about the other person. Only the first part is about me. If I was going to take on an additional sexual definition that I choose to explain me and my sexual expression wouldn't I state it in terms of my expression?

Still working on this obviously.

Jenna, your point, and opinion of such, is shared by others. I know many who don't accept that definition of stone femme for that very reason - they refuse to be defined by their choice of partner(s). I, myself, dated stone butches for years, and yet, I would never claim the identity of stone femme, not only because I don't agree with that definition of stone femme, but because even if I did, I wouldn't ever identify myself by my partner's identity. I can claim the identity of "girlfriend" but that would apply no matter what my partner's identity is. That definition of stone femme however, essentially requires one's partner to be stone butch, it can't be used with any other partner identity. MY OWN definition of stone femme, can, however. My definition of stone femme is one who's sexual boundaries are much like that of a stone butch, it has nothing to do with the gender identity or expression of one's partner, IN MY OPINION.

[Cid]

Originally Posted by SweetJane

As I posted in another thread, I have appreciated the freedom that an identity serves. When I came to the insight that I was a stone femme, it explained a lot and allowed me to accept all that I was and what I could give---without guilt. That's the big thing here.

Being stone sets boundaries. But in some circles where there is little understanding, it makes us selfish or cold in some way.

There is another connection in stone intimacy that we don't talk about. That "energy" that emerges between two stones is more than just lust. Sometimes it takes on a spiritual note because of the level of trust that is being offered. And if that couple explores areas that slip beyond vanilla, the trust and caring is magnified.

But finding that counterpart is a challenge. I am reluctant to mingle in the wider lesbian community in real time and lead with my heart because I do not want to become fond of someone, knowing I can't deliver what they want and need.

It is often a lonely road we stones walk, ever alert for that person who is our complement. But that is also what makes us who we are.

I just started reading this part of the board and I'm so glad I took the time. I've struggled with this for a long time. When I first started dating a woman she was a stone butch. I didn't really know anything about anything at that time, but I did know that having sex with her was amazing. At the same time, I felt like I was being selfish and that I wasn't doing what I needed to do to please her. It took quite a bit of convincing, but I got it. After that, the sex was so amazing. And as you said Jane, the energy was like nothing I've ever felt before. I felt like I could fly, it was so intense.

When we parted, I started dating a butch, but she wasn't stone. I tried to please her, but it was more of a struggle for me and I just couldn't do it. Eventually that partnership ended. I knew that I couldn't give her what she need or wanted and the guilt made it too hard to live with.

So now I know that I'm not defining myself by what someone else wants, it's what I want. And the best thing about it, is that I don't have to feel guilty about it.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Cid

So now I know that I'm not defining myself by what someone else wants, it's what I want. And the best thing about it, is that I don't have to feel guilty about it.

Love the sense of empowerment in this statement!

[ValKyrie]

Wow... this has been really amazing for me to read. Up until a little more then a year ago, I had never heard the word stone in relation to butch and femme. I was pretty sheltered, though. Even though I have known that I preferred women (the butch kind) since I was a teenager, I only just came out last August. I've been married twice to bio men, and have had sex with a lot of bio men, trying to convince myself that I really was hetero. I have had a lot of secret trysts with butches over the years before I came out, but I still never heard the term stone.

As I am reading these threads about stonefemme and stone butch, I am realizing that I really fit here. I was drawn to these threads because I am currently in a committed relationship with a stone butch, and it has been hard to find others who understand what that is. And after reading I'm starting to wonder if I am stonefemme. I LOVE being with my guy! She rocks my world in ways I didn't know were possible. At first it was difficult for me to understand that she didn't want me to touch her certain ways, or only wanted me to touch her in certain places if she actually put my hand there, and she told me before we ever had sex that she never wanted to recieve oral or be penetrated in any way. I had the kind of mindset that I needed to please my sexual partners, and if I didn't instigate touching her that I wasn't really pleasing her. She was really patient and gentle with me and I came to an understanding about what pleases her.

So on to me and my possible stoness (is that a word? ha!)... Being with my stone, I have discovered what it is to feel true pleasure. I have struggled with past sexual encounters, to reach an orgasm. In my current relationship I am multiple orgasmic. I have reached an orgasm just from her whispering in my ear and telling me to cum. Thinking about it, I really think it has to do with being able to let go and just be in the moment with my partner. I don't spend the whole time thinking about whether I'm touching them right, or if they like what I am doing. I don't have to guess. I am realizing that in the past, I did so many things with partners, that I really didn't like, didn't feel comfortable with, or just plain disgusted me. But I did it, because I felt like I had to please my partner. With my current partner, it really gets me off to know that she gets so caught up in my pleasure that she is pleased. I don't have to think about every little touch, or sound I make. I can let go and just feel and react to her, and if she wants more or different she shows me what it is. I can't imagine going back to being with someone who was not stone. I don't want to wear a strap on... not ever! And I have found that I like touching her in some areas but only when she is guiding me and showing me and telling me. Maybe it has more to do with a dominance thing? I am really fierce and more dominant outside of the bedroom, but I am really submissive when it comes to sex.

So I still don't know for sure... I don't really like labels, but it is relieving to find others who feel similar to me. Thank you... I will continue to read and absorb from this weatlh of information and experience.