Lesbian Butches - Coming home to ourselves....

[CharmingButch25]

I stumbled across this thread because I could'nt sleep and I am glad I did.
I currently am struggling with who exactly I am, I have always from a young age been more comfortable in boys clothing,having a boys haircut, from a small age of course my mom would force me into dresses and do my hair and all that fuss I HATE it with a passion. I didnt want to be a girly girl but at the same time I didnt want to be a boy. We would fight constantly about my hair or having to wear a dress. I knew from a very young age I was a lesbian that part I knew for sure but I didnt know exactly what that meant, I came out to my mom when I was 11 and when I was finally allowed to dress myself and decide how to cut my hair, I went with a military cut, my mom was devastated all my golden curls as she calls them were gone. I still keep my hair short and I am most comfortable in a pair of guys jeans and a hoodie. Nothing about me is femme,except part of my personality. I have always prefered being called Hy or Hym but I know I dont want to actually be a He or a Him. I get irratated when I get confused in womens bathrooms and actualy after a terrible event that happened in one I wont go in alone, I am too scared. I have always had the ultra femme sister who I feel my mom loved more than me, was happier with than she was me.Anyway I guess im kind of rambling. When On a date I do the gentleman thing and I get the doors for her, I pay, I do what society expects of a male on a date.And at first in all of my relationships I am the tough butch, the one she can turn to and know its all okay, but over a period of time , it kinda disapears and I dont know if its because of my illness but I start to need her more,she becomes the tough rock that I once was for her. Dont get me wrong at the end of the day she knows she will always find comfort in my strong arms... BUT so what does this leave me, A butch or a femme? I have always had to chose either one, and I go with butch because I feel thats who I AM inside. I havent worn a dress since I was 10 and was able to give it up, but i still have that need of a woman,the need to be comforted sometimes.I guess I will continue the struggle until I find out who I really am wheather it be butch or just a really manly femme, Any advice on how to figure this one out? My relationship started our very happy, me being the butch,her the femme and now she jokes (even though we broke up) she jokes that I was just not butch enough, that at first I pretended to be butch but it disapeard about 8 months in, (of course thats when I found out I was sick) but still she said I turned into the whinniest of femmes and thats not what she wanted, yet I still have the very butch domme daddy side, so where do I go next? How do I figure out WHO I AM? Any advice would be great and hope no one gets angry at this post I am not trying to upset anyone just find my place in this world....

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by CharmingButch25

I go with butch because I feel thats who I AM inside.

If you feel from within that you are butch, then you are butch.

No one can tell you any different and no one can take that away from you no matter what they say or how they try to belittle you.

I had an ex who would gush and gush about how very butch I was. Then when she was mad she would try to tell me I wasn't a "real butch." I looked her straight in the eye and told her, "I am butch and you can't take that away from me. No one can."

You can be a strong person (butches are not the only people who are strong) and still have the need or desire to be comforted from time to time. All people have this need.

You don't have to follow any stereotypes about butches do this and butches don't do that, and no one can tell you whether you are butch or "butch enough." No one. Only you can decide that.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by BullDog

If you feel from within that you are butch, then you are butch.

No one can tell you any different and no one can take that away from you no matter what they say or how they try to belittle you.

I had an ex who would gush and gush about how very butch I was. Then when she was mad she would try to tell me I wasn't a "real butch." I looked her straight in the eye and told her, "I am butch and you can't take that away from me. No one can."

You can be a strong person (butches are not the only people who are strong) and still have the need or desire to be comforted from time to time. All people have this need.

You don't have to follow any stereotypes about butches do this and butches don't do that, and no one can tell you whether you are butch or "butch enough." No one. Only you can decide that.

Everything you're saying makes so much sense, but my hunch is that you didn't learn these things overnight, that they are hard-won truths, and it's good you're sharing them.

[rustedrims]

I think you are looking in the wrong direction.
You are who you are and that is it.Dont try to change yourself because someone says different.Be comfortable with who you are.
My opinion is you are getting the wrong femme.You need a femme with more flexable thoughts.It just might be that you need to be with a soft butch?Maybe? I dont mean to offend you its just what i see.
There is nothing wrong with you.Be yourself.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by CharmingButch25

I stumbled across this thread because I could'nt sleep and I am glad I did.
I currently am struggling with who exactly I am, I have always from a young age been more comfortable in boys clothing,having a boys haircut, from a small age of course my mom would force me into dresses and do my hair and all that fuss I HATE it with a passion. I didnt want to be a girly girl but at the same time I didnt want to be a boy. We would fight constantly about my hair or having to wear a dress. I knew from a very young age I was a lesbian that part I knew for sure but I didnt know exactly what that meant, I came out to my mom when I was 11 and when I was finally allowed to dress myself and decide how to cut my hair, I went with a military cut, my mom was devastated all my golden curls as she calls them were gone. I still keep my hair short and I am most comfortable in a pair of guys jeans and a hoodie. Nothing about me is femme,except part of my personality. I have always prefered being called Hy or Hym but I know I dont want to actually be a He or a Him. I get irratated when I get confused in womens bathrooms and actualy after a terrible event that happened in one I wont go in alone, I am too scared. I have always had the ultra femme sister who I feel my mom loved more than me, was happier with than she was me.Anyway I guess im kind of rambling. When On a date I do the gentleman thing and I get the doors for her, I pay, I do what society expects of a male on a date.And at first in all of my relationships I am the tough butch, the one she can turn to and know its all okay, but over a period of time , it kinda disapears and I dont know if its because of my illness but I start to need her more,she becomes the tough rock that I once was for her. Dont get me wrong at the end of the day she knows she will always find comfort in my strong arms... BUT so what does this leave me, A butch or a femme? I have always had to chose either one, and I go with butch because I feel thats who I AM inside. I havent worn a dress since I was 10 and was able to give it up, but i still have that need of a woman,the need to be comforted sometimes.I guess I will continue the struggle until I find out who I really am wheather it be butch or just a really manly femme, Any advice on how to figure this one out? My relationship started our very happy, me being the butch,her the femme and now she jokes (even though we broke up) she jokes that I was just not butch enough, that at first I pretended to be butch but it disapeard about 8 months in, (of course thats when I found out I was sick) but still she said I turned into the whinniest of femmes and thats not what she wanted, yet I still have the very butch domme daddy side, so where do I go next? How do I figure out WHO I AM? Any advice would be great and hope no one gets angry at this post I am not trying to upset anyone just find my place in this world....

As Bulldog said so well, who you are inside, is who you are.

Your ex-girl-friend may have just become uncomfortable or scared about your illness. All of us are products of this sexist society! There is an expectation that bio men act like manly men (show no perceived weakness) and always be tough and strong.

I think lesbian/dyke butches, as well as transmen, have bought into this societal expectation. It is hard to escape it. It is on TV, movies and in books.

Women, including lesbian and queer femmes (and maybe even transwomen) also buy into the myth. Women may say they want a sensitive partner but when that partner shows some sensitivity or vulnerability, they just may not know how to deal with it (or they just do not want to deal with it).

All of this aside: you are who you are. Becoming ill, showing sensitivity or shedding some tears, does not change who you are. More than once I have read a post where a butch calls crying "my eyes were leaking", rather than admit to crying. Reading that always makes me want to cry, for feeling so sad for them to not allow themselves their humanness for fear others would think them not butch enough or because it did not fit with their own butch self-image.

You may indeed need to find a femme that accepts you with all of your butch and human attributes. It will never make you less of a butch to not be afraid to show all of you to another.

You feel butch? You are therefore, butch.

This is my perspective as a humanist lesbian femme.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by CharmingButch25

I guess I will continue the struggle until I find out who I really am wheather it be butch or just a really manly femme, Any advice on how to figure this one out?

Dear Charming Butch,

You're well on your way to figuring this one out, by talking about it, and asking yourself the questions that need to be asked—even though you're the only one who can answer them.

I can't tell you what to do, but I can share my experience.

I've learned to just trust my attraction. I go where it leads me. It's led me to transguys, butch lesbians, and when I was younger, it led me to bio-men. I don't question it or deny it.

I've been consistently attracted to butch lesbians for like 20 years now, and I adore them. But if I felt attracted to a transguy or a femme, I wouldn't deny it or feel shame, and to hell with anyone who didn't approve of my attraction.

So... relax my friend. I don't know who will attract you next, but you will know when you feel it. And it's a good feeling! Enjoy it.

Scout

[Nadeest]

It simply leaves you human, is all. We all have a need to be comforted from time to time, butch and femme, male and female alike.

[TimilDeeps]

I give kudos to what's already been said to you, CB. It really is a matter of who YOU think you are and ultimately want to be.

You can label yourself as gelatinous goo if you like, still, it's up to you to decide how that goo walks in the world. It is not the province of anyone else to define that for you. Ever. Although social mores love to crawl under our skin and make us question.

Be what you want, what you need, and desire . . . you'll attract the same–--someone who knows who they are and what they want.

And enjoy the journey, it's a fuckton of fun!

[Toughy]

<snip> but i still have that need of a woman,the need to be comforted sometimes.I guess I will continue the struggle until I find out who I really am wheather it be butch or just a really manly femme <snip>

I just picked this out as the crux of what I hear you saying....

The need to be comforted has absolutely nada, none, zip, nothing to do with your gender. The need to be comforted is a human need, not just a femme need or a woman need. It is absolutely also a butch need and a man need.

edited to add: In all the really long term relationships I know of................both individuals comforted the other when needed.........

[StrongButch]

CB just be proud of who you are and its okay if you cant define it. Its whats in your heart that counts.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I just picked this out as the crux of what I hear you saying....

The need to be comforted has absolutely nada, none, zip, nothing to do with your gender. The need to be comforted is a human need, not just a femme need or a woman need. It is absolutely also a butch need and a man need.

edited to add: In all the really long term relationships I know of................both individuals comforted the other when needed.........

Yes! And it's when we allow someone into our really vulnerable space do we find a real partner in life.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by CharmingButch25

When On a date I do the gentleman thing and I get the doors for her, I pay, I do what society expects of a male on a date.And at first in all of my relationships I am the tough butch, the one she can turn to and know its all okay, but over a period of time , it kinda disapears and I dont know if its because of my illness but I start to need her more,she becomes the tough rock that I once was for her. ... BUT so what does this leave me, A butch or a femme? I have always had to chose either one, and I go with butch because I feel thats who I AM inside. I havent worn a dress since I was 10 and was able to give it up, but i still have that need of a woman,the need to be comforted sometimes.I guess I will continue the struggle until I find out who I really am wheather it be butch or just a really manly femme,... she jokes that I was just not butch enough, that at first I pretended to be butch but it disapeard about 8 months in, (of course thats when I found out I was sick) but still she said I turned into the whinniest of femmes and thats not what she wanted,....

Sorry to cut up your post, but I wanted to address the heart of your question, which is whether it's OK to call yourself a butch even though you want and need comfort and support from your partner. I am SO SORRY that you've been given the message that being properly masculine means cutting yourself off from your own human needs. I agree with Toughy and the rest of the posters here. Being butch has nothing to do with not needing comfort, and fuck-all to do with being the "tough rock".

I am SO SORRY that you've absorbed the message that being soft or needing support makes you a woman/femme, and that you can't be a butch if you require nurturing. I'm equally sorry that you believe that butch can't equal woman. Most butches do ID as women. It's OK for you to be a woman who is butch.

I am SO SORRY that you've been made to believe that needing nurturing makes you a manly femme, and means that you are no longer a proper butch. It's astonishing that needing comfort would cause someone to tell you that you're really "the whinniest of femmes". It's really f**ed up that your ex would have given you that message. It's insulting to you, and really insulting to femmes. I hope you can shut her voice out of your head, and I hope you can shut her down if she tears you down by suggesting that to you again in person.

[Licious]

Just came across this thread. Very interesting reading. *subscribes*

[CharmingButch25]

Thankl you so much to everyone for all the kind words

[CharmingButch25]

Thank you very much strong you especially have been helping me these past few days

[arcstriker]

Charmingbutch, you got a lot of excellent advice and thoughts here.

I am going to give you a different spin here. I have worked in male dominated fields all my working life. It is in my experience that males whine a lot, and when they are ill they are the biggest baby's! Those are masculine traits.

With that being said your fine, its your ex who is mistaken here.

[LipstickLola]

Hey CB, one of the things I loved most about my XGF is that there were times she NEEDED me to comfort her, she was vulnerable in our quiet times. When she felt better? She'd usually build me something special to show her love, words were difficult but we had an understaning.....I miss her!!

You are wonderful just being you!
Lola

[SaltyButch]

CB,

You have received some wonderful words of wisdom here, I stumbled across this thread and just had to comment. I am not a fan of labels, and yet our community thrives on them for whatever reason and to some degree I can understand it for if they hadn't been shown to me I may not have found my identity. The thing that is important is not how people define you, but how you define yourself as has been mentioned...I treat women the same way and it wasn't until I came to a site that displayed this dynamic that I realized I wasn't alone and that there was a name for "it". I struggled also with feeling that because I was "butch" I had to be the Rock of Gibraltar all the time, but it wasn't until I met the strongest yet most gentle femme that she taught me otherwise. It's all about people CB, it's about acceptance, it's about being who you are and the person who loves you realizing that you are a woman no matter how you identify and that all the emotional capacity you have is because you are the woman you are. I cry every time I watch Home Makeover Family Edition, that doesn't make me "femme", it makes me a person capable of feeling and I wouldn't change that for the world. So stand proudly, that you are a person who knows when to ask for help, because many don't and be true to yourself because no one else can be. The right person will recognize and accept you for the wonderful person and human being you are.

[lilapache]

Originally Posted by SaltyButch

CB,

You have received some wonderful words of wisdom here, I stumbled across this thread and just had to comment. I am not a fan of labels, and yet our community thrives on them for whatever reason and to some degree I can understand it for if they hadn't been shown to me I may not have found my identity. The thing that is important is not how people define you, but how you define yourself as has been mentioned...I treat women the same way and it wasn't until I came to a site that displayed this dynamic that I realized I wasn't alone and that there was a name for "it". I struggled also with feeling that because I was "butch" I had to be the Rock of Gibraltar all the time, but it wasn't until I met the strongest yet most gentle femme that she taught me otherwise. It's all about people CB, it's about acceptance, it's about being who you are and the person who loves you realizing that you are a woman no matter how you identify and that all the emotional capacity you have is because you are the woman you are. I cry every time I watch Home Makeover Family Edition, that doesn't make me "femme", it makes me a person capable of feeling and I wouldn't change that for the world. So stand proudly, that you are a person who knows when to ask for help, because many don't and be true to yourself because no one else can be. The right person will recognize and accept you for the wonderful person and human being you are.

applauds applauds!!!

[starryeyes]

My partner is 100% butch, 100% woman and 100% comfortable with herself and it is SO sexy!! I love everything about her. Her confidence, her swagger, her look, her philosophy on being a butch ID'd lesbian woman Daddy in the BF dynamic and her experiences. I wish she would post more in these threads because she could contribute excellent discussion points, but she doesnt get on BFP much I'll try to convince her to chime in.