Femme Invisibility?

[CherylNYC]

I saw Mary Gauthier perform at a little coffee house in upstate NY on Friday night. The owner supported her early on, so she usually stops there even though it's a much smaller venue than she usually plays these days. I was alone, so I was seated at a table with a nice looking lesbian couple. I introduced myself and tried to start a conversation. They outright ignored me! I have a strong feeling it was because I was wearing lipstick. I would bet you a Mary Gauthier CD that they would have been friendlier had I stomped in carrying my motorcycle helmet and wearing my leather riding gear. Hmmph.

[introverted1]

I'm sort of in the same boat as femmeandstrong. It doesn't bother me when random folks wish me a happy mother's day or assume that I'm straight. My peeps all know what/who I am.

If I wanted to be ID'ed as a lesbian, I guess I would wear some sort of rainbow/double female symbol/labyris type jewelry.

[*Anya*]

For me, as a femme lesbian, it is a process of coming out each time I meet anyone new. I have heard more times than I have fingers and toes, "I never would have guessed that you were gay".

I heard this once again Friday from our new staff person.

I was even wearing a beautiful necklace I just got from Etsy that says "femme".

Not that it will help, but I try.

[introverted1]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

For me, as a femme lesbian, it is a process of coming out each time I meet anyone new. I have heard more times than I have fingers and toes, "I never would have guessed that you were gay".

I heard this once again Friday from our new staff person.

I was even wearing a beautiful necklace I just got from Etsy that says "femme".

Not that it will help, but I try.

I hear you about coming out anew with each new acquaintance... I figured it was the same for most lesbians. Consider me newly educated on the topic...

I wonder if the "femme" necklace is perhaps too vague for most folks? Maybe something more blatantly gay would help ID you.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by introverted1

I hear you about coming out anew with each new acquaintance... I figured it was the same for most lesbians. Consider me newly educated on the topic...

I wonder if the "femme" necklace is perhaps too vague for most folks? Maybe something more blatantly gay would help ID you.

I was kind of hesitant to order the "lesbian femme" one to wear to work but maybe I should get an extra one that includes lesbian for when I am out and about!

[introverted1]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

I was kind of hesitant to order the "lesbian femme" one to wear to work but maybe I should get an extra one that includes lesbian for when I am out and about!

Oh my gosh, that sounds ideal!

[candy_coated_bitch]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

I was kind of hesitant to order the "lesbian femme" one to wear to work but maybe I should get an extra one that includes lesbian for when I am out and about!

You totally should!

[Arden]

I find the continual coming out to be a bit annoying. Its not as if I ever hide it unless a safety concern is present, I don't go looking to get myself killed. One of my worst "coming outs" was going to file for divorce and having to correct the lady in the family law center who kept telling me where to put "his" name and information. I kept saying "her" and she would respond "his." We continued on this pattern until I finally said her my partner is/was a woman. "Oh" she responds and then quiet for a moment. Yeah, that was fun.

[introverted1]

Originally Posted by Arden

I find the continual coming out to be a bit annoying. Its not as if I ever hide it unless a safety concern is present, I don't go looking to get myself killed. One of my worst "coming outs" was going to file for divorce and having to correct the lady in the family law center who kept telling me where to put "his" name and information. I kept saying "her" and she would respond "his." We continued on this pattern until I finally said her my partner is/was a woman. "Oh" she responds and then quiet for a moment. Yeah, that was fun.

I'm recently divorced from my wife, and I have to agree...the continual having to explain that my soon to be ex was another woman was most difficult.

[girlin2une]

I have so many nights filled with nightmares and insomnia. When this happens, I "journal." I write it all down and have had for years. I won't re-read most of what I've written because it is too hard sometimes, but I still do it because it helps. And so, here is my latest communication... I'm posting in femme invisibility because most of the time I'm invisible to everyone.

I'm a queer woman partnered with a transgender man, but everyone assumes we're a heterosexual couple. On the surface, we’re the quintessential duo. This relationship has afforded me the privilege of banal nonconformity, but I'm still queer. Sometimes I feel like I've lost a piece of myself, but I wouldn't change anything for the world! As my relationship deepened, my queerness has become camouflaged to the outside world.

"Queer" is as an umbrella term for any gender or sexual expression outside of societal norms. For me, this umbrella term extends to politics, subculture, and perspective. My queerness has been a continuous re-examining of myself, a process that began (but was not understood) before my teens. I embraced the term way back in my twenties because it encompassed far more than just attraction or gender.

Queerness is anti-classification by definition, so it looks different for everyone. Over time, my queerness has become symbolic of a host of characteristics other than my sexuality. Despite the term’s controversial origins in hate speech, for me, it’s been a proud way to claim outsider status.

But claiming outsider status is complicated these days. Especially since Trump. I don't know just how to communicate how I feel about that as a Canadian having watched the election transpire. I just know that I have a personal take on the subject as my amazing partner is American. How can I be myself in a country filled with hate towards people like myself? To be precise, I’ve been with men and women, cisgender, and trans. With each new relationship came awkward explanations and the nagging temptation to draw conclusions about my sexuality.

Having evolved past my "femme visibility" years, I’ve grown into a long-haired, creative woman whose queer experience is hidden to the untrained eye. Many of those experiences were so negative. I've been hurt beyond belief (and THAT is a story for another day) I remained single for a decade. Yes. An entire decade. But I'm now with the most amazing (and inspirational) man whose empathy surpasses any other. He "gets" me. He loves me (even when I feel unlovable), he accepts all of my idiosyncrasies and encourages me to be the strong submissive that I am.

Falling in love with my partner has me thinking: Maybe I’m straight after all? But, I conceded: I guess I’ve been gay all along? Over time, I’ve realized that my partners’ genders and sexual identities indicate little about me, but for the rest of the world, it’s still a signpost. The more indistinct my queerness has become, the more I give thought to current times... I can safely kiss my partner in public, even under the watchful eye of haters, because I blend in. But do I? Should I? Why can't we just be ourselves without fear of persecution?

Ok, enough rambling. My partner joshingly (!) says what I write is awkward, but when I write, I write from the heart.

Thanks for listening...

[gotoseagrl]

Good topic. I've thought about this from time to time. At a job I had in the past, whenever butches would come through my line, I would blush and try to avoid eye contact as much as possible, which probably just made everything more obvious. So there's one clue. When I'm single, I tend to pay attention to my radar more and catch them in the corner of my eye, which they probably never notice, thank goodness. And when I'm not single, my partner is usually the one pointing out to me that we just passed another b-f couple or a butch or trans guy, as I tend to pay less attention.

As for femmes, in general, I think we are most invisble to each other (femme to femme). That would be the hardest one to tell ... unless she's a friend and it comes up in discussion, or she is seen with her partner. My partners tend to pass as male more often than not, but when I am out with them, it is my nature to walk with extra pride, usually holding hands or snuggling their arm, because I know who we are. If I did notice another femme out there, I would want to give her a big high five.

[girlin2une]

Originally Posted by gotoseagrl

As for femmes, in general, I think we are most invisble to each other (femme to femme).

I agree whole heartedly with this statement. Unless your group of friends are mainly Trans/Butch and femme, we remain invisible to one another...

[girlin2une]

Originally Posted by girlin2une

I have so many nights filled with nightmares and insomnia. When this happens, I "journal." I write it all down and have had for years. I won't re-read most of what I've written because it is too hard sometimes, but I still do it because it helps. And so, here is my latest communication... I'm posting in femme invisibility because most of the time I'm invisible to everyone.

I'm a queer woman partnered with a transgender man, but everyone assumes we're a heterosexual couple. On the surface, we’re the quintessential duo. This relationship has afforded me the privilege of banal nonconformity, but I'm still queer. Sometimes I feel like I've lost a piece of myself, but I wouldn't change anything for the world! As my relationship deepened, my queerness has become camouflaged to the outside world.

"Queer" is as an umbrella term for any gender or sexual expression outside of societal norms. For me, this umbrella term extends to politics, subculture, and perspective. My queerness has been a continuous re-examining of myself, a process that began (but was not understood) before my teens. I embraced the term way back in my twenties because it encompassed far more than just attraction or gender.

Queerness is anti-classification by definition, so it looks different for everyone. Over time, my queerness has become symbolic of a host of characteristics other than my sexuality. Despite the term’s controversial origins in hate speech, for me, it’s been a proud way to claim outsider status.

But claiming outsider status is complicated these days. Especially since Trump. I don't know just how to communicate how I feel about that as a Canadian having watched the election transpire. I just know that I have a personal take on the subject as my amazing partner is American. How can I be myself in a country filled with hate towards people like myself? To be precise, I’ve been with men and women, cisgender, and trans. With each new relationship came awkward explanations and the nagging temptation to draw conclusions about my sexuality.

Having evolved past my "femme visibility" years, I’ve grown into a long-haired, creative woman whose queer experience is hidden to the untrained eye. Many of those experiences were so negative. I've been hurt beyond belief (and THAT is a story for another day) I remained single for a decade. Yes. An entire decade. But I'm now with the most amazing (and inspirational) man whose empathy surpasses any other. He "gets" me. He loves me (even when I feel unlovable), he accepts all of my idiosyncrasies and encourages me to be the strong submissive that I am.

Falling in love with my partner has me thinking: Maybe I’m straight after all? But, I conceded: I guess I’ve been gay all along? Over time, I’ve realized that my partners’ genders and sexual identities indicate little about me, but for the rest of the world, it’s still a signpost. The more indistinct my queerness has become, the more I give thought to current times... I can safely kiss my partner in public, even under the watchful eye of haters, because I blend in. But do I? Should I? Why can't we just be ourselves without fear of persecution?

Ok, enough rambling. My partner joshingly (!) says what I write is awkward, but when I write, I write from the heart.

Thanks for listening...

I am just curious how my fellow femmes maintain their own queer identities...

[MsTinkerbelly]

I find the older I get, the less it matters if someone sees me as femme. Wow, I never thought I would say that.

I guess it is true of most things in my life...I don't care if it bothers people when I laugh loudly in the theatre, or wonder if people "like me" when I turn to talk in the grocery line, or give a flying fig if they agree with my opinion.

The only time I care to be seen as femme is when I am out with my butch; as a non-single femme, I really don't care if the butch I walk by "knows me". I am mostly immersed in my everyday life now, foregoing Pride, skipping the lesbian bars and feeling ok with my invisibility.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by girlin2une

I am just curious how my fellow femmes maintain their own queer identities...

I'm not sure how to answer this exactly. I think the word 'maintain' is throwing me off. My Queerness doesn't require maintenance and neither does my femme-ness.

When I was younger and in my first relationship with an FTM, I had a bit of an identity crisis but it had nothing to do with being perceived as straight and everything to do with him wanting me to BE straight. Obviously, that didn't work out.

I need room to exist as a Queer femme inside the relationship. If I have that, I won't worry about what others outside of the relationship think or say about me and how I present myself.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by girlin2une

I am just curious how my fellow femmes maintain their own queer identities...

I don't identify as queer.

In the same way that a lot of younger folks (or older) do not identify as a lesbian for their own personal reasons, I just don't feel comfortable calling myself queer.

I am a lesbian.

I will always be a lesbian.

On occasion, I have been known to call myself a dyke but it doesn't roll off my tongue in the same way lesbian does, either.

I don't care if someone else ID's as queer because I have no right to impose my own identity on someone else.

I ask only for the same respect in turn and for others to understand how much my identity means to me.

I fought too hard, for too long, to own lesbian for myself and to develop a level of comfort with the fact that I am a lesbian.

I love women. I fall in love with women. I am only sexually attracted to women.

I wish that it were easier for butch lesbians to look at me and to know that I am a lesbian femme but whether the world sees me as such or not; it will never change that it is my identity.

I maintain it by living it, no matter how the world feels about me. I can't do or be anything else.

[girlin2une]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I'm not sure how to answer this exactly. I think the word 'maintain' is throwing me off. My Queerness doesn't require maintenance and neither does my femme-ness.

When I was younger and in my first relationship with an FTM, I had a bit of an identity crisis but it had nothing to do with being perceived as straight and everything to do with him wanting me to BE straight. Obviously, that didn't work out.

I need room to exist as a Queer femme inside the relationship. If I have that, I won't worry about what others outside of the relationship think or say about me and how I present myself.

Perhaps "maintain" was the wrong word...
I guess I just mean that I've always been femme. Queer visibility is the quintessential double edged sword. People who are read as queer tend to face more overt discrimination and hostility, while the typical femme can slide by without much confrontation at all. It doesn't necessarily make us feel better or safer for that matter (in this trump day and age especially). We have conversations with the grocer, the manicurist, the Dr, teachers, parents (if we are teachers ourselves) and other day to day interactions with strangers and acquaintances. During one relationship, I was with a woman who had a very masculine french name and was very butch. Whenever we were out together, we got stares, misjudgements etc. This carried on in other relationships I had as well. It was like a constant proving of myself. "Yes, I have long hair" "Yes, I wear dresses" "No, I don't wear birkenstocks" "Yes, I love to embrace my femininity" "Yes, I really DO play baseball and no, I don't play in a dress" and so on and so on...
I'm a queer woman and I am really not interested in hiding that fact, but it's often challenging and complicated to try to be visible in public as queer. The cultural presumption of straightness is deeply ingrained, and many, perhaps most - people assume that everyone is heterosexual, despite any cues to the contrary.
I wouldn't necessarily mind people not knowing I'm gay, but I definitely don't like being thought of as straight. When I lived in Vancouver, and was active in the B/F and leather community, everyone knew me as femme. I didn't have to identify my orientation nor prove that I was queer. I really miss Vancouver... Now, living where I do, in a small Ontario town, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE just assumes I am a straight girl. I have had propositions by cis-guys and have had co-workers try to set me up with cis-guys. When I pass by the few other queers in town, I'd try to give them that nod... you know the one... If a butch walked by, I'd even meet said butch's eye, but yet still.... everyone just assumes I'm another straight girl... Don't get me started on Transguys (my preference)... I would not find one here with a 10 foot pole!
I think I've gone on another ramble, and I guess I should be more complacent about it. I DO have a wonderful partner and honestly; does it really matter in the end if we are seen as a heterosexual couple? We both know we are queer....

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

I don't identify as queer.

In the same way that a lot of younger folks (or older) do not identify as a lesbian for their own personal reasons, I just don't feel comfortable calling myself queer.

I am a lesbian.

I will always be a lesbian.

On occasion, I have been known to call myself a dyke but it doesn't roll off my tongue in the same way lesbian does, either.

I don't care if someone else ID's as queer because I have no right to impose my own identity on someone else.

I ask only for the same respect in turn and for others to understand how much my identity means to me.

I fought too hard, for too long, to own lesbian for myself and to develop a level of comfort with the fact that I am a lesbian.

I love women. I fall in love with women. I am only sexually attracted to women.

I wish that it were easier for butch lesbians to look at me and to know that I am a lesbian femme but whether the world sees me as such or not; it will never change that it is my identity.

I maintain it by living it, no matter how the world feels about me. I can't do or be anything else.

My feelings exactly. This bears repeating.

I'm emphatically a lesbian, a lesbian feminist, a dyke, a bad-ass biker, plus a lot more. But I'm not queer. Being called queer has come to really annoy me. I still think it's a fighting word, especially in the mouths of straight dudes.

Yes, I ardently maintain my femme lesbian identity.

[girlin2une]

No offense was intended with my use of the word "queer"...

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by girlin2une

No offense was intended with my use of the word "queer"...

None taken. I'm just sensitive to the presumption that we all must use 'queer' to describe ourselves now.