Top Surgery for Butches: Have you thought about it?

[imperfect_cupcake]

About half of my partners - who were absolutely fine with being female - thought about it. usually reduction and not removal. just going down to an A cup. Very small. I said "well, I had mine lifted when I was 25 and felt *way* better for it. I'd do it again if I could..."

people get tattoos and bolts put through their penises, so I told them to get the reduction to as small as they wanted. I got mine fixed and tightened up 20 years ago. why shouldn't it be ok to do it the way they want, aesthetically?

[TruTexan]

I'm with Kobi, I don't have any issues with my breasts either. The only thing that bothers me about them at times is they tend to get in the way when I am doing things like working on my truck. LOL
But, if they get any larger from weight gain, now that would make me want to consider losing more weight or getting a size reduction to take the pain off my back, I already have back issues and don't need anymore. Otherwise, I'm alright with them.
I think Ms.Tick is a cute name for a butch woman. ....just sayin.

[Jess]

every.single.day.

If I had a way to afford it, they would be gone in a heartbeat....

[Penelope]

I have been with a FTM who elected to have top surgery (and a hysterectomy) to align his physical body with his mental spirit. He had a referral from a therapist and chose a surgeon in a geographical area that worked for him. It is considered elective, outpatient surgery so he paid for it himself and went to a hotel to recover, where we monitored his healing. On a side note, when he had the hysterectomy, though he identified as FTM and had changed all of his paperwork to reflect male (if I remember correctly), he was still placed on a women's floor to recover and referred to as "she". Some of the nurses made an attempt to change the pronoun once we explained but others didn't get it (we were in Florida for this surgery).

My current partner who does not identify as FTM but like many of you, did not want breasts, chose to have the surgery in Toronto with a plastic surgeon who works with a local cosmetic surgery facility. I felt like they were more accommodating and respectful to us. He does not have gender dysphoria, is too old to bother with a hysterectomy and has no intentions of going on T. We did need some kind of referral which proved to be difficult as he was not seeing a therapist but I think eventually got one from his doctor. He had to pay for it himself as there were no medical reasons for doing so.

[DapperButch]

One thing a number of people I know use in order to get the surgery is CareCredit. I have heard mixed reviews on how easy it is to qualify. Below is the link. You can search your surgeon's name to see if they take it. I believe the way it works is each surgeon has their own individualized payment plan. The plan you get with Dr. Fischer is not the same you would get with Dr. Garramone, for example. Do your research.

http://www.carecredit.com/

In case there is misinformation, the cost of top surgery in the U.S. is $4,000-$8,500 in most cases. That cost is surgeon fees, anesthesiologist fees, and surgery center fees. Interestingly, the costs have remained the same for a number of years, which is positive. As an aside, peri/keyhole procedures tend to cost a bit more than the double incision method.

To my knowledge, the only insurance company that will pay for top surgery remains Aetna. Aetna started paying for it many, many years ago and I am surprised that more insurance companies have not followed suit. Hopefully soon. However, not all surgeons take insurance, either.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by whale

I have thought about it but then I think about my future life as a parent and I want to breastfeed so there's where I stop thinking about it.

I am not certain, but I think you still may be able to breast feed if you got the peri-areolar or keyhole method. There are no free nipple grafts involved in those procedures, which is the issue with breast feeing. That surgery is only for people who are A cups or VERY small B cups, however.

I think you are smart to pause and try to not let any gender/body dysphoria you may have result in making a decision that could impact your long term life plans. That can be hard to do when we are uncomfortable in our bodies.

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ETA: To late to add to my post before this one and do not want to post yet another. I wanted to add that Obamacare does not cover the surgery, either.

[Loren_Q]

I'm small breasted, and glad for it. My size doesn't effect how I view myself, but I do think if I were larger breasted it might.

My spouse (also butch) did have issues with her breast size so opted for breast reduction surgery in the 90s. It was covered under insurance because there was a record of back and shoulder pain. The surgeon didn't have an issue going down to an A cup (from a triple D) and that's what she did.

Funny story: Spouse and I were at a conference a couple of weeks before her surgery. I knew 2 of the women there had recently gotten breast reductions and I asked if they would speak to my spouse about their experiences. So the four of us got together, the women explaining their experiences and one said "removed 5 lbs from one and 5-1/2 from the other".

I looked down at my chest thinking "Pounds of breast? 10.5 pounds removed? Crap, I bowl that weight". I've not been able to go bowling since.

[Scots_On_The_Rocks]

I think about it ALL the time. Sadly, finances are such that it will most likely never happen. But yeah, it'd be nice to shed these "Huge...tracts of land" (40DD).

[easygoingfemme]

May I chime in as (tomboy) femme?
I can certainly understand the desire for top surgery, even totally unrelated to gender identification.

I am grateful every day that I am very small up top. I never need to wear more than an undershirt and that's to keep warm. If I was larger I would certainly want them off/reduced greatly. It would be uncomfortable to me physically and emotionally.

[Joness]

Hi Folks,

I have just read through every single one of the replies to this thread. Just wanted to say thank you so much to both Miss Tick for posting and everyone who responded. All so very interesting and informative.

I am considering Top Surgery but for lack of anyone around here to talk to about it and no one who has experience of it, my internal dialogue consists of:

'this is what I want, why am I not doing it??'
'I don't belong IN a body that has breasts . . . I belong ON a body that has breasts . . .'
'I don't want to alienate myself from the female community completely, but, I do want a flat chest'

Argh . . . anyways, loving being part of the BFP community - feeling less isolated :-) thank you :-)

[easygoingfemme]

Sidebar question I have pondered with my partner:
If a female identified person has top surgery, can they legally walk around topless? Because that would be *awesome*.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by easygoingfemme

Sidebar question I have pondered with my partner:
If a female identified person has top surgery, can they legally walk around topless? Because that would be *awesome*.

I don't know what our lawbooks say, but cultural norms would suggest, yes.

I think it is the chest, not the identity that determines these things. Our society equals male chest with male, I think. I think the typical observer would assume the person to be male, regardless as their other secondary sex characteristics. We are so programmed to the gender binary when it comes to breasts and genitals.

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If it is based on male versus female, it would come down to the person's legal gender marker. I believe that most States (not all), will allow a gender marker change after top surgery. Standard practice is for the top surgery surgeon to give you a letter saying that you should be deemed male due to having top surgery. One takes that letter to court.

But, lets say the "law" about being topless in your county is based on your sex. Picture the transitioning FTM, full beard, top surgery completed, on the topless beach, but hasn't gone to court yet for the gender marker change. If it is based on sex, then it would be just as illegal for him to be topless as the full-breasted, cisgendered female sitting next to him. Crazy, huh?

[Jar]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

I don't know what our lawbooks say, but cultural norms would suggest, yes.

I think it is the chest, not the identity that determines these things.

That's a good question. I've seen some men that have some boobs going on and they're running around topless. I guess the shock factor is based on the perceived gender

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Picture the transitioning FTM, full beard, top surgery completed, on the topless beach, but hasn't gone to court yet for the gender marker change. If it is based on sex, then it would be just as illegal for him to be topless as the full-breasted, cisgendered female sitting next to him. Crazy, huh?

Sorry, I meant on a NON topless beach.

[easygoingfemme]

Yup, all that. Sorry to have derailed this thread. My partner and I laugh a lot about potential scenarios, like if we back tracked to a few years ago when he had top surgery, facial hair, deepened voice, etc but had not gotten all gender markers changed- legally was he in that same limbo, though fully passing/living as male. But if I ever needed top surgery, cancer or whatever- (it runs in my family) - with no desire to ever change my gender marker or my female identity would I able to hang out topless with him? Just one of those things where I scratch my head at society. Hide the ta-tas!

[Cin]

Been thinking about this thread...

I doubt I can get anyone to sign off on a breast reduction without some planning. Up till now I have never had any complaints of backaches or anything like that, so there would be no record of problems with my breasts. I had a shoulder injury but it’s clearly documented in my medical records what happened and has nothing to do with my breasts. And I’m not sure I really want a reduction. It’s not like my breasts are gigantic and I would be happy if they were a bit smaller. It’s more that I don’t want them on my body. I don’t think there is a size that would make them more palatable. Well, maybe a triple A or double A. I hate wearing a bra. And as I age I don’t feel comfortable not wearing one. The thing is I don’t think reduction is the way I want to go. I need to think on it a bit, but when I read Dapperbutch’s experience and how happy he is with the results I want that too.

I never really thought of myself as being gender dysphoric. I know I’m okay with my assigned sex but gender is more difficult for me. I’m happy being female in my own butch way. I wouldn’t want to be anything other than a woman. So this whole thing is confusing. But it’s nice to know I’m not alone.

And it might just be something that I never do. Or it might become a financial reality in the future. Either way it's nice to have this place to talk about it and read about people's feelings and experiences.

Thanks to all who have posted.

[BullDog]

I feel so much like you do Miss Tick. I have never felt I was gender dysphoric either. If I am ever in the position where I can seriously consider having top surgery done, I am going to have to figure out how to approach that. I read part of the Standards of Care from the PDF Dapper linked to, and I really don't relate to what they are talking about in terms of gender dysphoria. However, I have wanted to have chest surgery for a very long time.

[weatherboi]

Hi folks


My doctor calls that body dysphoria or dysmorphic?? considering the issue seems to surround a concern with the body part but not the gender.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I have been very body dysphoric without it pertaining to my gender and it often sounded a lot like what some butches go through. It went on for fucking decades. it's only been since about three years ago that it completely stopped. but it was pretty awful. Sometimes I'd lay on the bed and cry, like I was wearing a too tight wet suit of the wrong skin.

nothing to do with gender for me though. But I empathise at how painful it can be.


Having the surgery did help initially. but not ultimately.

[Words]

I have to admit that when B. decided to go for top surgery, he presented himself as an FtM (he was already on T) rather than a third gendered/transgendered butch because he was concerned that if he didn't, the surgery wouldn't be approved (and paid for by the NHS). It did feel a little dishonest, and who knows, perhaps it would have been approved anyway, but he thought it best not to risk it and I can certainly understand why.

What took me by surprise a little was the fact that even people who knew B. fairly well assumed that the reason he wanted the surgery was because he wanted to change gender. Some even went so far as to raise an eyebrow as if to say ''Don't try to kid me'' when we told them that wasn't the case. They just wouldn't believe that he was happy being third gendered or that his main reason for wanting the surgery was so that he could finally, after years and years of wearing double binders - yes, they were that large -know the joy of slipping on a cool cotton t-shirt and immediately being 'ready to go' (more than two years down the line and he still comments frequently on just how wonderful that feels). But then, we got - and still get - the same reaction in regard to his being on T and the obvious effects of that so it shouldn't have really come as any surprise - and yet it did. *Shrug.*

Anyway, great thread.

Words