Non-packing butches

[Tangle]

I don't respond often to threads, but I felt compelled to do so in this thread. I skimmed most of the responses in here, and was surprised that I felt taken aback at a couple things I saw. I'd like to address them politely.

I read the following phrases used to describe sex with someone wearing a strap-on: "simulate hetero sex," and "act out male-female dynamics" - and they were both used in a negative context. Wow, really? I saw that Lady Snow addressed this a bit, but wanted to add my two cents. I have not, in the last 13 years, been with someone who did not choose to use a strap-on, and I have to say, I never felt even once that my relationship - or the act of sex within that relationship - was "simulating" anything! Trust me, every time it was the genuine article, an original piece of art. Granted, I at times "act out" lots of naughty things, but it never has to do with pretending to be straight.

This attitude seems reminiscent of verbiage used decades ago by feminist lesbians about how the B/F dynamic was in itself a pretend version of heterosexuality. I have to say, if the people participating in sex say they are queer - and believe they are queer - aren't they queer, and isn't that sex ultimately queer? Can I not claim a sexual act for myself because it feels good and sexy, without being told - not only by the straight world - that it isn't gay enough? Now that I'm on a roll, it feels a lot like being in a queer space and being told by some random person that it's not for straight girls like me b/c i'm wearing heels, a skirt, and long hair.

Isn't one of the first rules that you learn when you get your queer handbook to believe what someone tells you about their own identity? Come on now. Pretending to be straight has never entered my mind while being fucked by a butch or transguy. Even with a cock. Even on my back, in missionary position, in the dark!

*Sweet ladylike smile* Now. With regard to the spirit of this thread, my initial response, before I saw red, was that I personally have no preference when it comes to my lover packing or not. I've been with a transman who occasionally packed, a female-identified person who did constantly except to sleep, and another who never packed. In none of these situations was I turned-off by the lack of packing, nor did it change my perception of that person's gender or butchness.

This is my actual point, with that background in place: I personally find many things attractive about people I love. If my lover packs, it's a turn-on because it signifies something about her or him. I've had lovers who were into breasts until they fell for me, and now they're small-waist/ big-hip lovers. It's me that they love, and particular turn-ons follow naturally. If I were to fall in love with someone who had lots of freckles, that would become something I adored... but it's not something I need or that I seek out. If my spouse later had no freckles, would I miss them? Of course not. Each relationship is different. Packing is different things to different butches, and it isn't about what's between someone's legs that is important, it's about the energy with which they carry themselves - packing or not.

It is sad for me to think that there are butches who have been made to feel less a part of the community, or who have called into question their own feelings of masculinity because of their choices to pack or not. Likewise, people who do choose to pack have different reasons for it. Some may like the gender fuck of it, some may feel it helps them to feel more comfortable in the world or in their bodies to have that sensation. There are many other reasons. I'd like for all of us not to make presumptions about the meaning of packing or the lack of packing, and realize that we are all different, and that packing is not a sign or symptom of any level of gender-queer or masculinity.

*end novella*

[whale]

I think it's too much work for me to handle. I don't bind nor pack and I think I'm keeping it like that for a while.

[ProfPacker]

Originally Posted by Tangle

I don't respond often to threads, but I felt compelled to do so in this thread. I skimmed most of the responses in here, and was surprised that I felt taken aback at a couple things I saw. I'd like to address them politely.

I read the following phrases used to describe sex with someone wearing a strap-on: "simulate hetero sex," and "act out male-female dynamics" - and they were both used in a negative context. Wow, really? I saw that Lady Snow addressed this a bit, but wanted to add my two cents. I have not, in the last 13 years, been with someone who did not choose to use a strap-on, and I have to say, I never felt even once that my relationship - or the act of sex within that relationship - was "simulating" anything! Trust me, every time it was the genuine article, an original piece of art. Granted, I at times "act out" lots of naughty things, but it never has to do with pretending to be straight.

This attitude seems reminiscent of verbiage used decades ago by feminist lesbians about how the B/F dynamic was in itself a pretend version of heterosexuality. I have to say, if the people participating in sex say they are queer - and believe they are queer - aren't they queer, and isn't that sex ultimately queer? Can I not claim a sexual act for myself because it feels good and sexy, without being told - not only by the straight world - that it isn't gay enough? Now that I'm on a roll, it feels a lot like being in a queer space and being told by some random person that it's not for straight girls like me b/c i'm wearing heels, a skirt, and long hair.

Isn't one of the first rules that you learn when you get your queer handbook to believe what someone tells you about their own identity? Come on now. Pretending to be straight has never entered my mind while being fucked by a butch or transguy. Even with a cock. Even on my back, in missionary position, in the dark!

*Sweet ladylike smile* Now. With regard to the spirit of this thread, my initial response, before I saw red, was that I personally have no preference when it comes to my lover packing or not. I've been with a transman who occasionally packed, a female-identified person who did constantly except to sleep, and another who never packed. In none of these situations was I turned-off by the lack of packing, nor did it change my perception of that person's gender or butchness.

This is my actual point, with that background in place: I personally find many things attractive about people I love. If my lover packs, it's a turn-on because it signifies something about her or him. I've had lovers who were into breasts until they fell for me, and now they're small-waist/ big-hip lovers. It's me that they love, and particular turn-ons follow naturally. If I were to fall in love with someone who had lots of freckles, that would become something I adored... but it's not something I need or that I seek out. If my spouse later had no freckles, would I miss them? Of course not. Each relationship is different. Packing is different things to different butches, and it isn't about what's between someone's legs that is important, it's about the energy with which they carry themselves - packing or not.

It is sad for me to think that there are butches who have been made to feel less a part of the community, or who have called into question their own feelings of masculinity because of their choices to pack or not. Likewise, people who do choose to pack have different reasons for it. Some may like the gender fuck of it, some may feel it helps them to feel more comfortable in the world or in their bodies to have that sensation. There are many other reasons. I'd like for all of us not to make presumptions about the meaning of packing or the lack of packing, and realize that we are all different, and that packing is not a sign or symptom of any level of gender-queer or masculinity.

*end novella*

I think the above is very true. I am one of those older feminist who was not quieter enough if I grabbed up a few decades ago, not poo logical enough because of my clothes for the radical lesbians. I am female identified but love being butch in bed. As others know I have just asked myself to pack and it has to do with the sensuality of the packing not gender bending. In my younger days of we wanted to use and like cock in bed it was on pc. I can now see what I was denying myself great joy.
When our community was denied our desires to celebrate all on the continuum we join the heteronormative world in maintaining our own oppression.

[imperfect_cupcake]

None of my partners have ever soft packed.

A few have strapped under their clothes if we went out to a dyke night to fool around in the back. or a doorway on the walk home. Of course we've fooled around without it, but there has been the rare partner (some of them not IDing as butch) that "packed for play"

But generally, no. most of them have not.

[*Anya*]

My GF is butch. I recently asked her if she ever thought about packing or had any desire to do so and her answer was no.

Do I have any desire for her to do so?

Answer to that is also no.

This has nothing to do with our enjoyment of an occasional strap nor does it have anything to do with our being feminists.

Different strokes...

...literally and figuratively.

[*Anya*]

Didn't mean for my finger to hit the >>>?<<< in the title below.

[Scots_On_The_Rocks]

I did the whole packing thing for a couple of years. And while at first I was all about it as that I thought it would make me feel more "male", but as time went on, I found that what made me male in my eyes was not some synthesized chunk of silicone intricately tucked into my boxerbreifs. And well, I have gotten to a point now, that packing may be done on occasion, but it is a rare occasion these days...like total blue moon, hell has just frozen over occasion. As I alluded to earlier, being male-identified for me is about so much more than "props", it is about the soul and essence of me. I can just as easily be male with breasts and a vagina as anyone else can. So, yeah, no packing these days....it's just too much work to further elaborate on something I see myself as anyways.

[Cin]

I have never been interested in soft packing. Nothing wrong with it, I'm just not interested. Once in awhile I can see packing something I can use. But overall not my thing.

[Martina]

I have been with butches who have a cock and those who do not. What I don't get is defining butch -- and femmes do this too -- by whether someone has a cock or not. As many people have said on other threads, some femmes have cock. People of all genders have cock. People of all genders do not.

I still see that association made here all the time. Cock equals butch. Someone said recently that she only dates butches with cocks. That's cool. But as I recall she went on to equate butch with having cock. I doubt she meant it the way it read. I didn't call her on it, and I don't think anyone else did. But it's very casual and common in our community to equate the two. Doesn't work. It's just not the way the world is. People are too complex for that.

[LexiLove]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

My GF is butch. I recently asked her if she ever thought about packing or had any desire to do so and her answer was no.

Do I have any desire for her to do so?

Answer to that is also no.

This has nothing to do with our enjoyment of an occasional strap nor does it have anything to do with our being feminists.

Different strokes...

...literally and figuratively.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This is exactly the situation with my girl and I.

[whale]

I don't and no plans to.

[Paradox]

I don't pack or bind. I've thought about it but I like to be light as possible.
To each their own.

[Rockinonahigh]

Year's ago while I was in college I met a couple of queer ladies that I had classes with,one night we were having a poker party at their home,someone brought up packing and strap on sex.I herd about it but hadn't considered spending the cash for any of it cause simply it did nothing for me.Now as time rolls on I started to wonder about giving it a try,so I spent a bunch of $$$ to get the good stuff.I tried it,it was o.k. but didn't really fit,I didn't see the hoop la about it and still don't.Now the bag sits in the closet gathering dust.One thing that bugs me as well as puts me off is that it seems to be the first thing or nearly the first that I get ask about,"do you, " "why not","come on all butches do it" ect..ect.If packing make me butch or more so I could care less i'm fine with out doing so, besides if packing or strap on sex makes or breaks a relationship it wasn't men't to be.As for binding,yes I do wear a spandex t-shirt to keep them where they need to be.

[Tuff Stuff]

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

I read the "Packing 101" thread, and rather than derail it, I'm curious if I'm the only butch here who doesn't pack, and has no interest in packing?

I only pack when I play.
Another poster wrote,it misses with their head when it comes off,huh?
tg my comes off...personally I can't see myself packing 24/7.

I don't bind,either...not much there to hide.

That is all

[Mormegil]

I dont pack or bind and Im a 44dd . Doesnt make me feel any less masculine not to. just like having larger breasts doesnt bother me other than they get in the way sometimes and they seem to be bra slayers. You can also however use them as a tray to lay a sandwich on when your relaxing back on the couch...just saying.