Bravehearts: FTMs who cannot or choose not to medically transition - Page 4

Corkey · 02-24-2012, 02:11 AM

Hey Maverick, welcome to the site. Transition, or not is a question only you can answer. You and your S/O need to talk. If she cannot stay with you as you transition, then you have to decide if you can live as you are, or if you must transition. Perhaps if you both go to therapy you can work through your issues. None of us can tell you what the answer is, we can only support your decisions, what ever they are.
Good luck.

Nadeest · 02-24-2012, 04:18 AM

Maverick, I do understand, at least a bit, the struggle that you are going thru. I chose to transition, but I also have friends that chose not to transition for reasons similar to yours. Maybe part of the reason that I chose to transition is that I had little left, in my life, to hold me into living in the male role, I don't know for sure.
We each have to find the balance of what works for us, and sometimes, the balance changes later on down the road. Nor is there anything wrong with that.
For me, things came to the point where it was either transition or cease living. I couldn't deal with things any longer, it seemed like. Since I started transition, I'm a lot happier overall, but it doesn't always work out that way. I've been lucky, in a lot of ways.
One thing that might help you sort things out is to talk to a therapist that is experienced in dealing with transgendered people and transitioning. They can help you find the insights that you need to be able to make decisions that are right for you.
There are no absolutely right or wrong answers in this, only the answer that works for you. Sometime those answers change, over time.

Maverick · 02-27-2012, 03:12 PM

Thanks Nadeest and Corkey for you insights. I agree with both of you about counseling. I was seeing a gender therapist for a while on my own but it wasn't a good fit for me so I will be finding a new one soon. I think my partner would benefit from visiting with them also, though she is extremely reluctant to even talk about the subject with me let alone a stranger. There's a lot of anger there for her. I won't bore you with the details of all that. Let's just say that 15 years creates a lot of water under the bridge. Anyway, I'm in the process of trying to figure out what partial transition would look like for me. I feel predominantly male inside yet I don't feel like either a "man" or a "woman" and can't really see myself transitioning to the point of living as a man. This could all change at some point but that's where I am sitting right now. I'm intrigued by butch/femme relationships as my partner and I somewhat have that now, though it's unspoken and unplanned...meaning, I'm not sure either of us have thought a great deal about how we would categorize ourselves or our relationship. As I've gotten older and care less about societal pressures to conform I have evolved into more of a butch person. At this point I really want to change my first name to a gender neutral first and middle name that I can live with and I'm contemplating some form of chest surgery. These two changes would definitely put me more into a gender neutral place (i.e. confusing to other people lol) in the world and it will be interesting to see how that will feel to me.

Nadeest · 03-02-2012, 11:37 AM

Honestly, Maverick, I can see where your partner might have a great deal of anger about this matter. She chose to be with you, perceiving you to be one person, and now, you are showing her another part of yourself that she, and possibly even you, may not have been aware of, until now.
Often, in our transition, and enjoying our newfound freedom to express ourselves more fully and honestly, then we have before, we forget about the other people in our lives, and how this affects them. They often have had certain expectations of us, that are now completely destroyed. They may not have been aware of this part of ourselves, as well.
Feelings of betrayal can come into play, as well. 'How dare we have concealed this part of ourselves from them?' That can come into play, whether or not we have known of this part of ourselves consciously, or had concealed it deep within ourself, to the point where we didn't consciously know about it.
Do remember too, that she has a right to process this information at her own pace, and decide how to handle it. We get to do that, why shouldn't the other people in our lives?

DapperButch · 03-03-2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

Thanks Nadeest and Corkey for you insights. I agree with both of you about counseling. I was seeing a gender therapist for a while on my own but it wasn't a good fit for me so I will be finding a new one soon. I think my partner would benefit from visiting with them also, though she is extremely reluctant to even talk about the subject with me let alone a stranger. There's a lot of anger there for her. SNIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadeest

Honestly, Maverick, I can see where your partner might have a great deal of anger about this matter. She chose to be with you, perceiving you to be one person, and now, you are showing her another part of yourself that she, and possibly even you, may not have been aware of, until now.

SNIP

Do remember too, that she has a right to process this information at her own pace, and decide how to handle it. We get to do that, why shouldn't the other people in our lives?

Maverick, I think it is great that you are open to and accepting of the fact that a person transitioning can create loss for their partner and that this is a transition for them, also.

In my practice with trans people, I often request the partner come into a session, even if the person says their partner is "fine with it". Although the partner is not my identified client, this change effects the couple (in good and bad ways), which effects my client. It is also just simply useful for the partner of a trans person who is uncomfortable with the transition to see that the therapist of the trans person is empathetic towards their experience. It makes sense that the struggling partner of a trans person would fear that the trans person's therapist would judge them negatively for not being super positive about the person's transition. It is also helpful for the client to see that it is normal that their partner may be struggling with this change.

Maverick, if you don't have any names of therapists who work with trans people, consider using www.wpath.org to find a therapist.

DapperButch · 03-03-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Maverick, if you don't have any names of therapists who work with trans people, consider using www.wpath.org to find a therapist.

Here is another place to find a therapist specilizing in work with FTMs: http://www.thetransitionalmale.com/Therapists.html

Here is another place you can find a trans therapist, but I believe that most of the therapists here specialize working with MTFs (Nadeest, do you happen to know if this is accurate or not?):

http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm

Maverick · 03-07-2012, 09:56 PM

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for your input here. You're all right about the counseling and me needing to be patient with my partner. Like I said in a previous post, I was seeing a gender therapist for about 4 months last summer and I stopped seeing her because of exactly the reasons you all mentioned. She made ME feel like she wasn't empathetic to my partner's struggles and I felt like she was pushing me in directions to transition before I was ready to go there. Obviously, it was a bad fit for me. I will be finding a new therapist very soon who is more willing to listen to me and isn't so rigid in their beliefs. I think from everyone's posts that is the place to start at this point. Thanks again.
Mav

AlexHunter · 03-07-2012, 11:20 PM

Badass thread!

I am one of these people. I have shared pieces of my story through different posts on this site. Basically, I have literally wanted to be male since I was two. My realization of being gay was significantly overshadowed by gender dysphoria. I didn't feel like a gay woman because I felt like a straight man.

I told everyone that I would "get a sex change as soon as possible." I saw a therapist when I was 19 who gave me a letter to start male hormones. I didn't go through with it.

Why? Well, I was raised in a rural environment. There was a strict gender binary. I strongly identified with leading men in movies, felt deeply disconnected from everything feminine, and thought about having a cock during my first sexual fantasy at twelve. I knew I sure as hell wasn't female, so I figured I had to be male.

I moved to DC when I was 19 and met a few gender variant folks who led successful lives. I also realized that top surgery would be costly and bottom surgery would be impossible. I didn't want to be a man without a dick. I didn't want to have to tell all my partners that I was born female. I hated the idea that I might have to wait years before I could be legally recognized for who I was.

I felt this option was not feasible and decided to embrace being transgendered but not transsexual and genderqueer. If I could fuck like a man and express my masculinity in my physical appearance without transitioning, maybe that was enough.

I got involved with various queer communities after that, trying to find my niche. I was eager to meet people who would accept me. When I wanted to transition, I had no interest in immersing myself in queer culture because I wanted to put the idea that I was born female behind me and get on with my life as a man.

I bind. I pack. I work out to build muscle and keep my body fat low - excess body fat increases estrogen production. I buy clothes that fit me properly. I get masculine haircuts. I am a little taller than the average female (between 5'7" and 5'8"), have a deep voice, broad shoulders, and very masculine mannerisms. I am read as male 75% of the time. I do not go out of my way to "pass" - I simply want to be comfortable with myself. Feigning extra masculinity to be more passable to society would be putting on a facade for me.

I call myself a guy/man/dude. Being called "Ma'am" rubs me the wrong way, but I can tolerate it. I feel like I was born into the wrong body, but I've grown to accept it. I have realized I am fine with what I have, even though society says I should transition. I personally see no point if I must be exposed for what I was born with every time I remove my underwear.

I legally changed my first and middle name to Alex Hunter, which is both gender neutral and masculine. People sometimes disregard the "F" on my driver's license because of the name.

Nadeest · 03-08-2012, 11:17 PM

The link to lauras-playground is probably a good one, and they do have a list of therapists there. How accurate that it is now, I have no idea. However, lauras-playground does/did have lots of ftms in their community, so I wouldn't be too certain that those therapists are mainly for mtfs. Also, here is another useful site, and list of therapists. It also have some VERY useful articles linked to it, on the webpages, and I do think that those articles often come in very useful, indeed, regardless of what gender transperson wrote them. Here is the link: http://http://www.drbecky.com/therapists.html

Nadeest · 03-08-2012, 11:21 PM

Alex, if it works for you, that is all that counts. To my mind, there ain't no right or wrong way to do things, in this area; what counts is what works best for you.

DapperButch · 03-09-2012, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadeest

The link to lauras-playground is probably a good one, and they do have a list of therapists there. How accurate that it is now, I have no idea. However, lauras-playground does/did have lots of ftms in their community, so I wouldn't be too certain that those therapists are mainly for mtfs. Also, here is another useful site, and list of therapists. It also have some VERY useful articles linked to it, on the webpages, and I do think that those articles often come in very useful, indeed, regardless of what gender transperson wrote them. Here is the link: http://http://www.drbecky.com/therapists.html

Hey, Nadeest. Thanks for clarifying about Laura's playgroun.

Your link to Dr. Becky's site doesn't work. This one should : http://www.drbecky.com/birthcert.html

DapperButch · 03-09-2012, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for your input here. You're all right about the counseling and me needing to be patient with my partner. Like I said in a previous post, I was seeing a gender therapist for about 4 months last summer and I stopped seeing her because of exactly the reasons you all mentioned. She made ME feel like she wasn't empathetic to my partner's struggles and I felt like she was pushing me in directions to transition before I was ready to go there. Obviously, it was a bad fit for me. I will be finding a new therapist very soon who is more willing to listen to me and isn't so rigid in their beliefs. I think from everyone's posts that is the place to start at this point. Thanks again.
Mav

Yes, I think it is really important that a therapist stay conscious as to where their client is in moving towards medical transition. Additionally, I think that it is important that therapists at least make comment on the fact that some folks do not medically transition and that this does not make them any less than the gender they already are. Moreover, I think that we should present the idea that the gender binary is not the only way to look at things and that some believe there is more than two genders. I have met a number of folks who felt like they had to transition b/c they knew they were not their birth sex, so they MUST be the opposite sex. They appreciated the idea of thinking outside the box.

Anyway, I am preaching to the choir on this site, but Maverick's post got me thinking about what concerns me about some gender therapists (the gender binary concept). I will say I believe this way of thinking is less common than in the past in the gender therapist community.

boobookitty · 03-09-2012, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexHunter

I didn't want to be a man without a dick. ... I do not go out of my way to "pass" - I simply want to be comfortable with myself. ... Feigning extra masculinity to be more passable to society would be putting on a facade for me.

I have been reading this thread and not quite able to break 'the ice' and jump in. but these words where like a sharp stick to my soul. There are so many things, which a trans person feels, ...that only another trans person can really understand.

I also grew up in the country, and the gender binary in drilled into who I am. Yet, there is a third gender in our culture too, the emasculated male. So in my 'being' if I can't make sperm -- I might as well be female.

(humor) ...and if I have to be a 'girl' I might as well be a hot one! LOL, thus I am B.I.D. = Butch In Drag, (laugh to keep from crying)

missing parts - not fun!

anyway...

Maverick · 03-11-2012, 12:18 AM

I will say that the gender therapist that I went to is listed on all of the websites but I would NOT recommend her. She's definitely still working with old information and has not kept up on all of the various directions people are going in these days. Very much into the gender binary and not at all understanding of why someone might not want to transition if they are truly transgender.

Nadeest · 03-14-2012, 09:23 PM

I am sorry to hear that, Maverick. If you are still in contact with her, you might consider letting her know that there is a new version of the Standards of Care that was recently released. If she looks that up and reads it, I think that it is likely that she will learn a lot. For starters, it is a much longer document then before, and has a lot of information inside of it. This might be the impetus that will get her to start thinking, and gathering more information, so she can better help her clients.

Corkey · 03-14-2012, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

I will say that the gender therapist that I went to is listed on all of the websites but I would NOT recommend her. She's definitely still working with old information and has not kept up on all of the various directions people are going in these days. Very much into the gender binary and not at all understanding of why someone might not want to transition if they are truly transgender.

Can you find another in your area?

DapperButch · 03-15-2012, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadeest

I am sorry to hear that, Maverick. If you are still in contact with her, you might consider letting her know that there is a new version of the Standards of Care that was recently released. If she looks that up and reads it, I think that it is likely that she will learn a lot. For starters, it is a much longer document then before, and has a lot of information inside of it. This might be the impetus that will get her to start thinking, and gathering more information, so she can better help her clients.

Good point. This may be another reason as to why you (Maverick), might want to see if there is a therapist in your area that is a member of WPATH. Those therapists adhere to the SOC and are up to date.

On the other trans sites (forums for trans people) that I am aware of, therapists names are listed for two reasons. Either a member of the site puts their name on the list (which is a good), or the therapist comes onto the site saying they want to list their name. Unfortunately, there is no way to "check" the therapists out as having additional training in trans issues. Anybody can put their name on the list.

However, I would feel confident that the therapists at WPATH have more of an investment in learning and being up to date with training. It costs $200 per year for a therapist/physician to be a member and then an additional $25 to have your name listed. It makes sense to me that people wouldn't put that money out unless they were commited to getting what they need to stay ahead of the curve in the field.

With that said, of course just like any other speciality there are going to be therapists whose style/personality just doesn't fit you. Plus, having a lot of knowledge doesn't mean you are necessarily good at this work. If you have choices, check out more than one therapist. YOU are the consumer.

I hope things work out for you. If there is not a therapist in your area, some gender therapists will do skype, especially for the rural areas.

DeviantDaddy · 03-15-2012, 08:28 AM

I am so pleased to have come across this thread.

My partner and I have discussed this in length. Although I identify as male, I am pre-op and pre-T. Top surgery is an option for me, however given my medical condition I am unable to have it done as an outpatient which means I will require hospitalization, which quadruples the cost. Therefore it is something I am working on but regrettably require a bit more time.

However, something that has made me stop and reconsider everything is the fact that I was told there was no possibility of me going on T. I researched information on the net and spoke at great lengths with my specialist who handles my health disorder and came up empty handed. Everything pointed to no. But about two weeks ago I reached out to the director of the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health in CA and presented my case. To my surprise, she consulted with her specialists and I was given the answer I had hoped for: it is possible for me to go on HRT.

I am trying not to jump and run with this, given the fact that I do want to research all their studies and discuss it with my own doctor and so on. If there is the slightest risk, I will prefer not to proceed. Which ultimately leaves me, in what I call, the grey zone.

I have a baby face - one that hasn't changed in years. I look very young and more of a boy than a man. Upon completion of my top surgery I will still feel as though I have not fully transitioned. I feel that I will forever be a 'boy' and never truly a man to the outside world. And let's face it, although it is most important that we feel comfortable in our bodies and identification - we do not live in a bubble. I am not blind to the fact that I do have to face the outside world every day, and therefore their view does ultimately effect me. Whether it be my safety or my comfort. I can handle the stares and whispers... but it is different when I'm out with my bonus children and they have to see it.

Being in this grey zone has been incredibly difficult for me. Things such as public restrooms - most of those who identify as butch or trans can relate to that. It isn't easy and I often wish that I could simply just go on T. My therapist has already granted me approval. She did so last year and in March I had made my appointment with the surgeon and endocrinologist. But when everything was brought to a halt, I felt like a huge blow had been dealt to the center of my chest.

Being different is not easy, by any means. Whether you are butch, trans, male identified or female identified. We live in a society that is not open to alternatives due to their conformity in binaries. And yeah we can boast about the comfort we have found within ourselves, which is part of our journey. But society's views can and often do cause some discomfort at some times.

So thank you, for having this thread available.

Thinker · 03-15-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeviantDaddy

I am so pleased to have come across this thread.

My partner and I have discussed this in length. Although I identify as male, I am pre-op and pre-T. Top surgery is an option for me, however given my medical condition I am unable to have it done as an outpatient which means I will require hospitalization, which quadruples the cost. Therefore it is something I am working on but regrettably require a bit more time.

However, something that has made me stop and reconsider everything is the fact that I was told there was no possibility of me going on T. I researched information on the net and spoke at great lengths with my specialist who handles my health disorder and came up empty handed. Everything pointed to no. But about two weeks ago I reached out to the director of the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health in CA and presented my case. To my surprise, she consulted with her specialists and I was given the answer I had hoped for: it is possible for me to go on HRT.

I am trying not to jump and run with this, given the fact that I do want to research all their studies and discuss it with my own doctor and so on. If there is the slightest risk, I will prefer not to proceed. Which ultimately leaves me, in what I call, the grey zone.

I have a baby face - one that hasn't changed in years. I look very young and more of a boy than a man. Upon completion of my top surgery I will still feel as though I have not fully transitioned. I feel that I will forever be a 'boy' and never truly a man to the outside world. And let's face it, although it is most important that we feel comfortable in our bodies and identification - we do not live in a bubble. I am not blind to the fact that I do have to face the outside world every day, and therefore their view does ultimately effect me. Whether it be my safety or my comfort. I can handle the stares and whispers... but it is different when I'm out with my bonus children and they have to see it.

Being in this grey zone has been incredibly difficult for me. Things such as public restrooms - most of those who identify as butch or trans can relate to that. It isn't easy and I often wish that I could simply just go on T. My therapist has already granted me approval. She did so last year and in March I had made my appointment with the surgeon and endocrinologist. But when everything was brought to a halt, I felt like a huge blow had been dealt to the center of my chest.

Being different is not easy, by any means. Whether you are butch, trans, male identified or female identified. We live in a society that is not open to alternatives due to their conformity in binaries. And yeah we can boast about the comfort we have found within ourselves, which is part of our journey. But society's views can and often do cause some discomfort at some times.

So thank you, for having this thread available.

I wish you the very best on your journey.

SelfMadeMan · 03-15-2012, 12:00 PM

I hear you, and I can only imagine how frustrating it is for you! I think you're doing the right thing by taking your time and being cautious with your health - we only get one life
Yes, there are safety concerns when in public, because we know how crazy people can be... but you mentioned that you have a boyish look... and I think you're probably just fine. A lot of places now have family restrooms, and more and more places are putting in gender neutral facilities, so I'd say use one of those options whenever possible. But when you do need to use the public mensroom, keep in mind that guys typically just go in and take care of business and don't generally socialize or even make frequent eye contact with whoever else happens to be in there, so they likely won't even notice you.
I hope you get the answers you want from your doctor... but no matter what, you are no less of a man because of whether or not you use T, and regardless of surgical status.
Thanks for sharing your story!!

02-24-2012, 02:11 AM	#61
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,299 Times in 6,640 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Hey Maverick, welcome to the site. Transition, or not is a question only you can answer. You and your S/O need to talk. If she cannot stay with you as you transition, then you have to decide if you can live as you are, or if you must transition. Perhaps if you both go to therapy you can work through your issues. None of us can tell you what the answer is, we can only support your decisions, what ever they are. Good luck. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

03-07-2012, 11:20 PM	#68
AlexHunter Member How Do You Identify?: With a greeting and a handshake, typically Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 150 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 469 Thanked 455 Times in 49 Posts Rep Power: 6000593	Badass thread! I am one of these people. I have shared pieces of my story through different posts on this site. Basically, I have literally wanted to be male since I was two. My realization of being gay was significantly overshadowed by gender dysphoria. I didn't feel like a gay woman because I felt like a straight man. I told everyone that I would "get a sex change as soon as possible." I saw a therapist when I was 19 who gave me a letter to start male hormones. I didn't go through with it. Why? Well, I was raised in a rural environment. There was a strict gender binary. I strongly identified with leading men in movies, felt deeply disconnected from everything feminine, and thought about having a cock during my first sexual fantasy at twelve. I knew I sure as hell wasn't female, so I figured I had to be male. I moved to DC when I was 19 and met a few gender variant folks who led successful lives. I also realized that top surgery would be costly and bottom surgery would be impossible. I didn't want to be a man without a dick. I didn't want to have to tell all my partners that I was born female. I hated the idea that I might have to wait years before I could be legally recognized for who I was. I felt this option was not feasible and decided to embrace being transgendered but not transsexual and genderqueer. If I could fuck like a man and express my masculinity in my physical appearance without transitioning, maybe that was enough. I got involved with various queer communities after that, trying to find my niche. I was eager to meet people who would accept me. When I wanted to transition, I had no interest in immersing myself in queer culture because I wanted to put the idea that I was born female behind me and get on with my life as a man. I bind. I pack. I work out to build muscle and keep my body fat low - excess body fat increases estrogen production. I buy clothes that fit me properly. I get masculine haircuts. I am a little taller than the average female (between 5'7" and 5'8"), have a deep voice, broad shoulders, and very masculine mannerisms. I am read as male 75% of the time. I do not go out of my way to "pass" - I simply want to be comfortable with myself. Feigning extra masculinity to be more passable to society would be putting on a facade for me. I call myself a guy/man/dude. Being called "Ma'am" rubs me the wrong way, but I can tolerate it. I feel like I was born into the wrong body, but I've grown to accept it. I have realized I am fine with what I have, even though society says I should transition. I personally see no point if I must be exposed for what I was born with every time I remove my underwear. I legally changed my first and middle name to Alex Hunter, which is both gender neutral and masculine. People sometimes disregard the "F" on my driver's license because of the name. __________________ Speak your mind even if your voice shakes. "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." -Oscar Wilde Last edited by AlexHunter; 03-07-2012 at 11:31 PM. Reason: added thoughts

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

02-24-2012, 04:18 AM	#62
Nadeest Member How Do You Identify?: as myself Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Leesburg, FL Posts: 595 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,876 Thanked 2,118 Times in 501 Posts Rep Power: 17077996	Maverick, I do understand, at least a bit, the struggle that you are going thru. I chose to transition, but I also have friends that chose not to transition for reasons similar to yours. Maybe part of the reason that I chose to transition is that I had little left, in my life, to hold me into living in the male role, I don't know for sure. We each have to find the balance of what works for us, and sometimes, the balance changes later on down the road. Nor is there anything wrong with that. For me, things came to the point where it was either transition or cease living. I couldn't deal with things any longer, it seemed like. Since I started transition, I'm a lot happier overall, but it doesn't always work out that way. I've been lucky, in a lot of ways. One thing that might help you sort things out is to talk to a therapist that is experienced in dealing with transgendered people and transitioning. They can help you find the insights that you need to be able to make decisions that are right for you. There are no absolutely right or wrong answers in this, only the answer that works for you. Sometime those answers change, over time.

02-27-2012, 03:12 PM	#63
Maverick Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Transman Preferred Pronoun?: they/them Relationship Status: encumbered Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: eastern US Posts: 48 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 361 Thanked 179 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 1216947	Thanks Nadeest and Corkey for you insights. I agree with both of you about counseling. I was seeing a gender therapist for a while on my own but it wasn't a good fit for me so I will be finding a new one soon. I think my partner would benefit from visiting with them also, though she is extremely reluctant to even talk about the subject with me let alone a stranger. There's a lot of anger there for her. I won't bore you with the details of all that. Let's just say that 15 years creates a lot of water under the bridge. Anyway, I'm in the process of trying to figure out what partial transition would look like for me. I feel predominantly male inside yet I don't feel like either a "man" or a "woman" and can't really see myself transitioning to the point of living as a man. This could all change at some point but that's where I am sitting right now. I'm intrigued by butch/femme relationships as my partner and I somewhat have that now, though it's unspoken and unplanned...meaning, I'm not sure either of us have thought a great deal about how we would categorize ourselves or our relationship. As I've gotten older and care less about societal pressures to conform I have evolved into more of a butch person. At this point I really want to change my first name to a gender neutral first and middle name that I can live with and I'm contemplating some form of chest surgery. These two changes would definitely put me more into a gender neutral place (i.e. confusing to other people lol) in the world and it will be interesting to see how that will feel to me.

03-02-2012, 11:37 AM	#64
Nadeest Member How Do You Identify?: as myself Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Leesburg, FL Posts: 595 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,876 Thanked 2,118 Times in 501 Posts Rep Power: 17077996	Honestly, Maverick, I can see where your partner might have a great deal of anger about this matter. She chose to be with you, perceiving you to be one person, and now, you are showing her another part of yourself that she, and possibly even you, may not have been aware of, until now. Often, in our transition, and enjoying our newfound freedom to express ourselves more fully and honestly, then we have before, we forget about the other people in our lives, and how this affects them. They often have had certain expectations of us, that are now completely destroyed. They may not have been aware of this part of ourselves, as well. Feelings of betrayal can come into play, as well. 'How dare we have concealed this part of ourselves from them?' That can come into play, whether or not we have known of this part of ourselves consciously, or had concealed it deep within ourself, to the point where we didn't consciously know about it. Do remember too, that she has a right to process this information at her own pace, and decide how to handle it. We get to do that, why shouldn't the other people in our lives?

03-07-2012, 09:56 PM	#67
Maverick Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Transman Preferred Pronoun?: they/them Relationship Status: encumbered Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: eastern US Posts: 48 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 361 Thanked 179 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 1216947	I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for your input here. You're all right about the counseling and me needing to be patient with my partner. Like I said in a previous post, I was seeing a gender therapist for about 4 months last summer and I stopped seeing her because of exactly the reasons you all mentioned. She made ME feel like she wasn't empathetic to my partner's struggles and I felt like she was pushing me in directions to transition before I was ready to go there. Obviously, it was a bad fit for me. I will be finding a new therapist very soon who is more willing to listen to me and isn't so rigid in their beliefs. I think from everyone's posts that is the place to start at this point. Thanks again. Mav

03-08-2012, 11:17 PM	#69
Nadeest Member How Do You Identify?: as myself Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Leesburg, FL Posts: 595 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,876 Thanked 2,118 Times in 501 Posts Rep Power: 17077996	The link to lauras-playground is probably a good one, and they do have a list of therapists there. How accurate that it is now, I have no idea. However, lauras-playground does/did have lots of ftms in their community, so I wouldn't be too certain that those therapists are mainly for mtfs. Also, here is another useful site, and list of therapists. It also have some VERY useful articles linked to it, on the webpages, and I do think that those articles often come in very useful, indeed, regardless of what gender transperson wrote them. Here is the link: http://http://www.drbecky.com/therapists.html

03-08-2012, 11:21 PM	#70
Nadeest Member How Do You Identify?: as myself Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Leesburg, FL Posts: 595 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,876 Thanked 2,118 Times in 501 Posts Rep Power: 17077996	Alex, if it works for you, that is all that counts. To my mind, there ain't no right or wrong way to do things, in this area; what counts is what works best for you.

03-11-2012, 12:18 AM	#74
Maverick Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Transman Preferred Pronoun?: they/them Relationship Status: encumbered Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: eastern US Posts: 48 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 361 Thanked 179 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 1216947	I will say that the gender therapist that I went to is listed on all of the websites but I would NOT recommend her. She's definitely still working with old information and has not kept up on all of the various directions people are going in these days. Very much into the gender binary and not at all understanding of why someone might not want to transition if they are truly transgender.

03-14-2012, 09:23 PM	#75
Nadeest Member How Do You Identify?: as myself Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Leesburg, FL Posts: 595 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,876 Thanked 2,118 Times in 501 Posts Rep Power: 17077996	I am sorry to hear that, Maverick. If you are still in contact with her, you might consider letting her know that there is a new version of the Standards of Care that was recently released. If she looks that up and reads it, I think that it is likely that she will learn a lot. For starters, it is a much longer document then before, and has a lot of information inside of it. This might be the impetus that will get her to start thinking, and gathering more information, so she can better help her clients.

03-15-2012, 08:28 AM	#78
DeviantDaddy Junior Member How Do You Identify?: TG Male Preferred Pronoun?: He/Him Relationship Status: Mated Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: FL Posts: 93 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 115 Thanked 257 Times in 65 Posts Rep Power: 1840891	I am so pleased to have come across this thread. My partner and I have discussed this in length. Although I identify as male, I am pre-op and pre-T. Top surgery is an option for me, however given my medical condition I am unable to have it done as an outpatient which means I will require hospitalization, which quadruples the cost. Therefore it is something I am working on but regrettably require a bit more time. However, something that has made me stop and reconsider everything is the fact that I was told there was no possibility of me going on T. I researched information on the net and spoke at great lengths with my specialist who handles my health disorder and came up empty handed. Everything pointed to no. But about two weeks ago I reached out to the director of the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health in CA and presented my case. To my surprise, she consulted with her specialists and I was given the answer I had hoped for: it is possible for me to go on HRT. I am trying not to jump and run with this, given the fact that I do want to research all their studies and discuss it with my own doctor and so on. If there is the slightest risk, I will prefer not to proceed. Which ultimately leaves me, in what I call, the grey zone. I have a baby face - one that hasn't changed in years. I look very young and more of a boy than a man. Upon completion of my top surgery I will still feel as though I have not fully transitioned. I feel that I will forever be a 'boy' and never truly a man to the outside world. And let's face it, although it is most important that we feel comfortable in our bodies and identification - we do not live in a bubble. I am not blind to the fact that I do have to face the outside world every day, and therefore their view does ultimately effect me. Whether it be my safety or my comfort. I can handle the stares and whispers... but it is different when I'm out with my bonus children and they have to see it. Being in this grey zone has been incredibly difficult for me. Things such as public restrooms - most of those who identify as butch or trans can relate to that. It isn't easy and I often wish that I could simply just go on T. My therapist has already granted me approval. She did so last year and in March I had made my appointment with the surgeon and endocrinologist. But when everything was brought to a halt, I felt like a huge blow had been dealt to the center of my chest. Being different is not easy, by any means. Whether you are butch, trans, male identified or female identified. We live in a society that is not open to alternatives due to their conformity in binaries. And yeah we can boast about the comfort we have found within ourselves, which is part of our journey. But society's views can and often do cause some discomfort at some times. So thank you, for having this thread available.

03-15-2012, 12:00 PM	#80
SelfMadeMan Member How Do You Identify?: Transsexual Man Preferred Pronoun?: Male Relationship Status: Married to The Woman of My Dreams <3 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 802 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 796 Thanked 2,669 Times in 527 Posts Rep Power: 18972344	I hear you, and I can only imagine how frustrating it is for you! I think you're doing the right thing by taking your time and being cautious with your health - we only get one life Yes, there are safety concerns when in public, because we know how crazy people can be... but you mentioned that you have a boyish look... and I think you're probably just fine. A lot of places now have family restrooms, and more and more places are putting in gender neutral facilities, so I'd say use one of those options whenever possible. But when you do need to use the public mensroom, keep in mind that guys typically just go in and take care of business and don't generally socialize or even make frequent eye contact with whoever else happens to be in there, so they likely won't even notice you. I hope you get the answers you want from your doctor... but no matter what, you are no less of a man because of whether or not you use T, and regardless of surgical status. Thanks for sharing your story!!