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Old 05-05-2019, 12:31 PM   #21
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I have read all 5 of the A Song of Ice and Fire books that Martin has published so far and none of these plot twists sound even remotely familiar to me. Are they based on the next two books that are supposed to come out (which of course have been delayed by many years) or just stuff the tv producers are making up? I haven't seen the TV series at all but I'm just curious how much it is veering away from the books. Sorry if this is a derail to the thread. I'm just curious.
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:52 PM   #22
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I have read all 5 of the A Song of Ice and Fire books that Martin has published so far and none of these plot twists sound even remotely familiar to me. Are they based on the next two books that are supposed to come out (which of course have been delayed by many years) or just stuff the tv producers are making up? I haven't seen the TV series at all but I'm just curious how much it is veering away from the books. Sorry if this is a derail to the thread. I'm just curious.
They used up all of the material in the novels at least two seasons ago. Since then they have been making stuff up, under the supervision and with the guidance of GRRM.

Theoretically the two upcoming books will follow the series instead of vice-versa. Although i think GRRM has reserved the right to diverge if he wants.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:03 PM   #23
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I hope Martin doesn't let a TV show dictate his books, lol! But thanks for the info Dark Crystal. I wish Martin wasn't so slow but I did like the first few books a lot better than the later ones.
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:52 PM   #24
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After tonight's episode, I believe that this is what the hound is up to heading back to King's Landing. Good has to win, and I think the Hound is deep down, good.
I also think that however Cersei dies, I think it will be an ambush of sorts with multiple hands involved. She is far too wise for anything less, in my opinion. Cijs… I am really kinda pissed at how Brie was treated, my heart shattered for her.
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There's got to be another throwdown between The Mountain and The Hound. Just has to be.
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:49 AM   #25
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Yeah, I'm disappointed in Jaime. And in Jon and Sansa and Varys and Bronn. Jon and Sansa both broke their words. And how stupid is Jon?

Also sorta sad to see Arya turn away from happiness in the expectation of dying. I did like the scene with her and the Hound.

Fucking hated to see one of the dragons go.

Sad episode.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:28 PM   #26
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Wow. Well, I guess the question now is who will kill Daenerys.

Goodbye, Jaime, Varys, The Hound.

I thought the episode was really well done.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:33 AM   #27
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i'm just not sure i liked the episode last night..I thought Daenerys behaved badly..although i loved seeing the dragon, incinerating children was unnecessary cruelty..but that is Daenerys fault not the dragon's. I can see the writing on the wall..the last dragon will probably have to be killed because he does not fit in a tame world..Jamie trying to save Cersei, also disappointing..she did not deserve it..even though they both die in the end but then life is often filled with regret & disappointment so in retrospect chillingly realistic, Jamie's brother..not sure how i feel about him..he seems to be fine betraying Daenerys for his truly evil sister, excusing her behavior because she loved her children? Not good enough. Encouraging Jamie who was trying to redeem his life to run off with the monster behind most of Jamie's evil
/ Bewildering..i can't follow his reasoning. Yes brother, it's because of you i'm alive therefore i want you to run off with my truly evil sister who wanted me dead? Ridiculous, this isn't wise or kind, it's stupid. also...
There is no way Jon didn't know his sisters would ever keep such a secret. Jon always makes a wrong call with faulty reasoning..is this on purpose? He doesn't strike me as being a good leader overall..yes he is honest and brave, but is not wise. Which means if he ascends to the throne, he will not be there long. This is why i think in Daenerys dream long ago the throne room was empty and the roof was caved in...who should sit on the throne? his sister Ayra.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:46 PM   #28
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I agree that Arya would be an excellent leader. I'm so disappointed that after 8 seasons of learning how to be a decent human being, Jaime came full circle just to veer back to stupidity and Cersei. Daenerys has completed her journey in becoming a tyrant. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I'm disappointed in her as well. I think Jon is finally seeing Daenerys now. With a couple episodes left, there's time for him to come around and his family to take over the kingdoms.
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:12 AM   #29
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There's only one more episode. They've got a lot to do. One cast member said last night's episode was the high point of the season. It was amazing in terms of its depiction of warfare. You could substitute bombs for dragonfire and imagine the horrors of Dresden or Beirut or Sarajevo. I am not sure I've ever seen anything like that on film.

Just re characters, the scene between Tyrion and Jaime was so touching. Loved it. The Clegane Bowl didn't disappoint.

I know people are upset about the boring end to Cercei. I didn't care when the time came. They had to go some way.

People are also upset about Danaerys' Mad Queen transition being so fast. Some folks feel turning her character at all was anti-feminist. But she represents the satrap kind of ruler. I didn't find it surprising that that was her default.

So, now who will kill her? It's setting us up to believe Arya. The white horse seemed kinda mystical.

If we are left with Jon or Sansa on the throne or some federation of houses not ruled by a king, I will be sad that Varys will not be there to see it.

I kinda agree with Danaerys that Tyrion needs to start questioning his judgement. Of course, he won't be her Hand. I assume he'll be on the run North to Sansa and whoever else will oppose Danaerys. Wonder if he and Sansa will end up together? I kind of doubt it.

I wonder if there is any more coming from Bran. If not, ????

Bye, Jaime. *Sniffle*

Poor Jon. Greek Tragedy kind of spot he's in.
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:42 AM   #30
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Default Rambling speculation

i think Jaime came to king's landing to do exactly what he did-- comfort Cersei as she/they died. He knew he didn't have to kill her-- that someone was going to have to and all he had to do was let it happen. But, he did not like to think of her dying alone.

That was his sister and the mother of his children, who are all dead. His best friend from birth. He knew she was evil and she had to go but he could not stand her going through that alone.

Also, i think he knew he himself belonged to the past era, and should die when it did. He was the reason Robert became king, and Cersei's death represented the end of that reign, and he felt that dying alongside Cersei would be appropriate.

My prediction for next week is that the third dragon dies, and possibly Dany, and possibly Jon. Dany seems tainted, but we may be told that this is the dragon's fault. Maybe we'll find out that the dragons made the Targaryens crazy. Maybe the writers will set it up that by killing the dragon, Dany could be redeemed.

I don't think Jon will take the throne bc that would be boring and he is boring.

I think Tyrion could end up in charge, as i have said, bc i see him as the main character, and he has been the most consistently ethical and compassionate.

And isn't he kind of technically the King now? Him or Gendry are technically the king until Westeros formally surrenders to Dany, which isn't going to happen. If Gendry dies, the Lannisters are still the ruling family. If Tyrion takes up the Lannister banner against Dany, he represents a cleansed house which maybe deserves to rule?

OR Gendry, Jon, Tyrion, and Dany all die and Sansa takes the throne as a Lannister, by virtue of her marriage to Tyrion. That would be super ironic in a very appropriate way.

If i were writing i would bring the Night King back OR have the Lord of Light show up.

Because, like, shouldn't everyone be converting to Melisandre and Beric Dondarrion's religion? R'hllor, also known as the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow, has done a LOT-- resurrecting Jon and Dondarrion, killing Renly, killing Shireen, resurrecting Catelyn.

He is the only deity besides Bran & co. that is manifesting real miracles where everyone sees them. He was fighting the Night King from way back. Sure, the Shireen thing was bad, but that was Melisandre failing to understand she was looking for Jon.

Should there be a showdown between R'hllor, the Night King, and the three-eyed raven? Catelyn is still out there, with Nymeria. Both of them need to show up next week, too.

There's a metaphysical storyline that needs to be wrapped up. This has to be about more than who sits a throne. There is a forces of evil vs forces of good situation and we don't know which one R'hllor is. A lot of what has happened is R'hllor's doing.

So maybe someone has to confront R'hllor. Obviously Bran, and who is R'hllor's remaining representative? His mom!!
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:56 AM   #31
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The god of Light..how fitting and ironic...men have always used "a" god as an excuse to do evil and persuade others it is necessary and good..the desire to erase freedom and subjugate has always been the weakness of the men in this world..and this story is just one of many played out sadly on the screen and in this world and even in our dreams..we keep doing the same things and expecting a different result and maybe this story is the author's way of trying to make us see, who we are and that it doesn't matter if we think we have a better way if we use the same tools to try getting it..i would like to believe that Arya finally understands this..she wanted to become a faceless man to help her in her revenge..but in the process of finally avenging some of the wrongs done to her family realizes in the end that revenge is never sweet..it is just another face of evil disguised as something worthy and right. At least, I would enjoy seeing one person in this whole story understand wickedness done, for whatever reason, will never end in happiness ... I think the ending will be messy, because this life is messy and a happy ending is not possible and would not be appreciated by the audience ...
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:38 AM   #32
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i think Jaime came to king's landing to do exactly what he did-- comfort Cersei as she/they died. He knew he didn't have to kill her-- that someone was going to have to and all he had to do was let it happen. But, he did not like to think of her dying alone.

That was his sister and the mother of his children, who are all dead. His best friend from birth. He knew she was evil and she had to go but he could not stand her going through that alone.

Also, i think he knew he himself belonged to the past era, and should die when it did. He was the reason Robert became king, and Cersei's death represented the end of that reign, and he felt that dying alongside Cersei would be appropriate.
I didn't think of it this way. I like this better but still feel like kicking him in the nuts for hurting Brienne.
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:41 PM   #33
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Apparently there is a rumor that Jon kills her in the throne room in front of the iron throne, drogo breaks the roof to take her out of there ...if so this proves my point, Jon is no better then she is...he is doomed.
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:05 PM   #34
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Cool What a mess

Well, looks like none of the main predictions of witches et al and other theories came true... who knew?

Quite the epic end to Cersei and Jaime, the Hound, and Varys, and King's Landing. (Shame about Varys, considering he was the only one who knew what Danaerys was really like.) Never liked Jaime - not since he pushed the kid out of the tower.

Danaerys destroys all. None of the remaining heroes will be happy about that - quite the wake-up shock for all of them. But, they all hitched their dreams on Danaerys' leadership; of course, sacrificing integrity for power. Gee, it's just like the real world (lol). Oh, well. Am quite speechless. At least, Arya survived. She was always my favourite, and there she goes - riding off into the ... on the white horse.
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:39 PM   #35
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The only good reason to have Catelyn Stark back is to kill her again. Maybe Jon will though, poor guy, he has enough kin complications.

I'm trying to think if I care who's on the throne. I'm not sure I do as long as it's not Dany.

Sansa has been presented as a strong administrator who sees through treachery and faces the truth. I think the fact that she never fell for Dany's line makes her the front runner. Sansa is a rock compared to Jon and Tyrion.

I hope all that mystical shit doesn't happen cause I don't care about it. What makes a good ruler interests me. The Lord of Light . . . Yawn.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:01 PM   #36
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I am not so convinced that Cersie is dead. Trapped for a minute, maybe... Jamie dead.. okay, that I can believe since he went in there with possible serious injuries. It just couldn't have been that easy. The Hound-- fantastic!! I applaud him taking his power back.

I see Danaerys, killing or attempting to kill Tyrion. She did say that his next betrayal would be his last, and we all know that the guards had to have told her about Jamie's escape the night before during Tyrion's visit. I think Arya added Danaerys to her list of who must die when she saw the child she was trying to save burned to death in her mothers arms. Arya has murdered people for lesser crimes. I don't see Jon saving Danaerys, aunt or not, his loyalities are still Stark and his love for peace. I still think that Tyrion is going to kill his not really dead sister.
I don't know.. that's my thoughts.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:58 AM   #37
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The only good reason to have Catelyn Stark back is to kill her again. Maybe Jon will though, poor guy, he has enough kin complications.

I'm trying to think if I care who's on the throne. I'm not sure I do as long as it's not Dany.

Sansa has been presented as a strong administrator who sees through treachery and faces the truth. I think the fact that she never fell for Dany's line makes her the front runner. Sansa is a rock compared to Jon and Tyrion.

I hope all that mystical shit doesn't happen cause I don't care about it. What makes a good ruler interests me. The Lord of Light . . . Yawn.
I was reminded yesterday that Catelyn Stark was not resurrected in the TV version? (The question mark is bc i have not confirmed this)
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:43 AM   #38
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I was reminded yesterday that Catelyn Stark was not resurrected in the TV version? (The question mark is bc i have not confirmed this)
It's true. It was decided not to include this part of the book..not sure of the reason...she was mean to him..and never fair and took out her disappoint for husband's mistake on an innocent child..albeit she was not told the true story notwithstanding..she was not a good mother, kind of a nightmare really...the red wedding was horrific ..i stopped watching GOT for a while.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:47 PM   #39
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Yeah, she's kind of a classic portrayal of a mother you love to hate. And that's on GRRM. He created some amazing female characters, but there is sexism there as well. That said, I really disliked Catelyn. Not as much as internet boys, but she is good as the over intense joyless but ineffective mother. So long suffering and grit your teeth angry. And of course she fucks up. The mother who fails to protect. She was designed to be hated. Hard not to even when you realize that.
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:24 AM   #40
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Dany gotta live long enough to birth Jon's baby
Dany could survive tomorrow night by announcing her pregnancy
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