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Old 01-11-2010, 06:55 PM   #21
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For me, its ALL the about the "energy" between myself and the person. Looks dont play into that for me. On many levels. I know this answer sounds simple. But for me it is. How does does the energy interaction feel to me. How does it make me feel emotionally, physically (meaning how does my body react to them), mentally and otherwise.

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Old 01-11-2010, 07:01 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by UofMfan View Post


I have more to say but Mercury being retrograde has limited my ability to be articulate…
Damn that's what up! No wonder!

I need to be physically attracted but its more about chemistry, a connect and our interest need to be compatible. I prefer someone taller then I and stronger. I don't really have a look per se but masculine is a much and someone well groomed.

A person's character is important to me. They have to be a good person, honest, sincere and compassionate. Strong family values are very important to me.
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Blade View Post
It's the total package for me, not just any one or two things about a femme that attracts me to her.
Oh yeah, the total package in the end, but truth, there can for me be one or two individual factors that initially get me interested in even having a first date to explore the rest (if I was dating).
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by IrishGrrl View Post
*snip*
Initially, my eye (and other parts) gravitate toward the traditional masculine appearence. What's wierd is..I dont really go crazy over someone who appears TOO masculine. There has to be that hint of softness...in thier hands, thier face..thier voice..thier eyes.
Me too!

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I too wonder..if my husband had been more feminine "looking" if I would have initially picked him out as someone I wanted to date. These days, I'm much more flexiable about it. I used to only date butches who were pretty masculine. Now when I see butches who are less masculine appearing..it's thier energy I gravitate towards.(if I were single and gravitating!!!)

Another question that plaques me..

Am I the only femme that thinks..even if my partner is female ID'd..that.

I'm the girl
and
you are the boy?

And what does that mean?
By appearances, I am more the girl and she is more the boy. I definitely felt some of that in my relationships. Not *as much* with Ren, because we both bring masculine and feminine energies to the table. In the past, that may have played out more...but not now. It's definitely a combo of both.

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I'm as shallow as tiny trickling creek. I admit it. Own it. Honestly, I probably won't change because if someone can't catch my interest through my eyes, then that's it. End game.

However, what is physically attractive to me is not what floats the boats of others, and I'm thankful for that. Diversity is a beautiful thing!

I have to have someone who counterbalances my femininity. I know what Irish was saying about me=girl, you=boy. I get that, even if many feel it's heteronormative. For me, it's my reality.

I'm secure enough in my insecurity to admit that I feel "less" femme when I am with someone who doesn't balance me....complement me. It's far beyond simply what or who I find attractive; it's tied in with my self-image and how I present myself.
Thanks for your honesty, Gemme. And great that you have the self-knowledge to know what works for you.
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:09 PM   #25
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Very interesting. I've thought about this very thing myself in relation to my husband..and my past relationships. Initially, my eye (and other parts) gravitate toward the traditional masculine appearence. What's wierd is..I dont really go crazy over someone who appears TOO masculine. There has to be that hint of softness...in thier hands, thier face..thier voice..thier eyes.
I too wonder..if my husband had been more feminine "looking" if I would have initially picked him out as someone I wanted to date. These days, I'm much more flexiable about it. I used to only date butches who were pretty masculine. Now when I see butches who are less masculine appearing..it's thier energy I gravitate towards.(if I were single and gravitating!!!)

Another question that plaques me..

Am I the only femme that thinks..even if my partner is female ID'd..that.

I'm the girl
and
you are the boy?

And what does that mean?
I'm totally with you in the line of thought that, though I'm attracted to femininity... (outward feminine cues etc) but more does not necessarily equate to more attractive... as in the more stereotypically feminine doesn't raise the woo factor at all.

There is an essence definitely, the outer cues attract but it's the feminine energy that has the woo-ing power.

(I agree with you on the boy/girl thingy too in that context)

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Old 01-11-2010, 07:27 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by UofMfan View Post
Attraction, to me has to be on all levels, but let’s be honest, initial attraction is almost exclusively physical. This may seem shallow, but it is a reality. For me though, physical attraction is not enough to keep me interested. I need more than a pretty face, otherwise I get bored quickly.

As far as physical attraction, a few years back I came to the realization that I am not willing to compromise. A femme complements my butch, the yin and the yang, etc… I need this dichotomy to be happy in the long run.

Mental attraction is to me the most important, let’s face it, if you can’t keep my mind interested I don’t care how beautiful you are, eventually it will get old for me. I need to be mentally stimulated; I need a complex individual who keeps me on my toes.

Emotional attraction I think develops with the relationship, once and if one is established.

I have more to say but Mercury being retrograde has limited my ability to be articulate…
I agree...if I did not have an emotional connection or be able to hold a decent intelligent conversation, whatever physical attraction I had would be out the window.

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Originally Posted by Lady Jewel View Post
For me, its ALL the about the "energy" between myself and the person. Looks dont play into that for me. On many levels. I know this answer sounds simple. But for me it is. How does does the energy interaction feel to me. How does it make me feel emotionally, physically (meaning how does my body react to them), mentally and otherwise.

Warmly,
Jewel
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Damn that's what up! No wonder!

I need to be physically attracted but its more about chemistry, a connect and our interest need to be compatible. I prefer someone taller then I and stronger. I don't really have a look per se but masculine is a much and someone well groomed.

A person's character is important to me. They have to be a good person, honest, sincere and compassionate. Strong family values are very important to me.
I get the chemistry thing...totally. But how much chemistry is there when you first meet someone?
So imagine yourself at a social event where there are a mixture of b/f folks. If a feminine appearing person/femme (or the opposite of how you identify) struck up a conversation with you, would you have any physical reaction/attraction to them intially? Or is there a certain type of person whom you might pick out of a crowd as attractive?
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:41 PM   #27
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I agree...if I did not have an emotional connection or be able to hold a decent intelligent conversation, whatever physical attraction I had would be out the window.





I get the chemistry thing...totally. But how much chemistry is there when you first meet someone?
So imagine yourself at a social event where there are a mixture of b/f folks. If a feminine appearing person/femme (or the opposite of how you identify) struck up a conversation with you, would you have any physical reaction/attraction to them intially? Or is there a certain type of person whom you might pick out of a crowd as attractive?
Chemistry doesn't always happen for me instantly. Not at all. I have to be attracted and then the interaction and knowing who they are starts to brew chemistry for me. Sometimes it takes a while, even months as it starts to deepen.

I've seen butches and thought "damn, he's hot" but its just not enough to spark something inside. As I get older there are so many other things that set it a flame.
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:47 PM   #28
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Drew, thanks for your very thoughtful post!

I specifically like "I can't help who does it for me, and some physical types just don't no matter what."

Based on yours and others input, I have been thinking alot about the initial physical attraction to someone. In my experience, I have some kind of chemical/hormonal reaction to a specific type. As much as I want to feel like I would be open to all kinds of types, I am not convinced we are all built that way.


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Good thread. I think that physical appearance is important, and those that say it shouldn't be confuse me. I have had a friend tell me I am shallow for only preferring a certain physical type and not being open-minded about people who don't fit that type. Shallow? I can't help who does it for me, and some physical types just don't no matter what. That includes cisgendered men, which I think most of us on this site can relate to.

My type is femmes. Feminine in appearance, but also in how she carries herself in the world. Graceful, elegant, but also a strength in her femininity. Curvy, can fill out a dress beautifully, but wear pants and be just as sexy. A girl that just oozes femininity from every pore of her body, no matter what she wears or how much or little make-up is applied. I generally don't find super heavy make up to be all that flattering for a girl, for it hides her beauty. Hair in a feminine style, long enough to thread my fingers through. Full lips. Things like that turn me on.

That said, a girl who looks like that can open her mouth and totally ruin it for me. I have had it happen and it is a bit jarring, but it is a lot more than looks that draws me in. A girl who is mature and intelligent and strong in herself, who is gentle and kind and genuinely cares about others and not just in words but deeds as well, who respects herself as well as others, THAT turns me on tremendously. I don't generally find it attractive when a girl puts herself down all the time or goes around putting others down. That really disturbs me. A powerful intellect makes me crazy in a good way. I want someone I can talk to and share ideas with. Even if we disagree, we can learn from each other and respect each other's point of view. I don't expect to be with someone who is perfect in these ways all the time. Everyone is human and so am I. She doesn't have to have it all together all the time. I sure don't. But someone who takes care of herself and refuses to be a door mat gets my respect and admiration.

So yeah, its a lot more than physical. But physical matters, it really does. Nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is. I don't think you are shallow at all, Miss Sassy. Your attraction to masculinity in women is just part of who you are, and that, just like every other part of who you are, should be respected by others.
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:55 PM   #29
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Fo me it is Her intelligence, Her kindness towards others, Her smile, Her eyes.
The qualities I look for, and found. I have to be attracted to Her brain first. Yes, physically appealing is a turn on, but if one can't turn my mind on, you sure can't turn my heart on. I'm blessed that She turned my mind on then my heart, there is no other for me, totally hooked, now and forever, Hers.
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:50 PM   #30
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I wonder why it is so hard for most people to admit that, when it comes to dating and initial attraction, we are all prejudiced to some extent. (that's right, I said the P word). And really, isn't that what attraction is all about? I don't mean prejudice in a bad way...I mean it in the actual definition of the word. We prejudge, and to some extent, discriminate, based upon what particular features or mannerisms we find attractive. And there is nothing wrong with that. Everything else in a relationship can grow...love, trust, friendship...but that intial attraction, that click, that moment of frission...has GOT to be there. Its not something one can learn, or fake. Its either there or its not.

I like to describe myself as a woman who gets her nails done, but who isn't afraid to get her hands dirty . But a femme is what I am, whether it be dressed in a skirt and heels on a night out...or dressed in my rattiest, oldest sweatshirt while painting the shed. Its something innate in me, and I couldn't change it if I tried (nor do I want to). I find that in all my relationships the defining factor is this...I am attracted to masculinity. I don't care how my partner identifies, to me its all about their manner, their personality, their particular way of walking in this world. It has nothing to do with how they look, it has to do with who they are inside their skin. Could I be attracted to a feminine woman? Nope. And that doesn't mean I think less of femininity, it just means that it does nothing for me.

Just my two cents.
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:32 PM   #31
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For me attraction begins with a deep stirring inside of me on one or all levels. Physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
Physically, I have been attracted to many different types even another femme or two. I prefer average to larger builds. Long or short hair. Casual/preppy, the rebel with tattoos and piercings, in uniforms...out of uniforms lol. I have a thing for black boots. A penchant for Daddies and Syrs. A huge one for me is she must be a female identified butch one reason being because I like to touch and love them everywhere. I am physically attracted to someone who is comfortable in their female body. The more masculine their energy the better.
Mentally, I like to be stimulated and learn things from someone or I become bored quickly. I do not need someone from Mensa just be passionate about something, literate, creative, open minded.
Emotionally, I need someone who is compassionate, empathetic, stable, considerate, capable, and consistant. We all have some baggage but I can not be drained by low energy, negative individuals.
Spiritually, I am not a religious person but I am a spiritual one. If you don't believe in something...You may fall for anything. Spiritual bonds are usually between soulmates. They can finish eachothers sentances. They are comfortable with the silences. You kiss them when you meet as strangers yet feel like you have known eachother forever. I want those kind of goosebumps.
I want someone to compliment my life not complete it.
On a closing note, I never expect from someone what I can not bring to the table myself.
And I have learned the hard times in a relationship are the most telling not when things are going smoothly. I want to see my lover raw at times. And comfortable to be so in front of me.
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:36 PM   #32
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Thanks for this thread, Sassy. It's timely for me.

My honey identifies as butch, but she is very strongly female identified and somewhat tentative about the butch part. We've known each other casually for over a decade, and she's seen a few others I've had relationships with and has a butch friend of many years who tends to remind people of a lumberjack. She's compared herself with them and feels "less butch" because she doesn't like getting 'sir', owns some women's clothes, has a short but androgynous hairstyle, etc. Her decorating style is a lot more feminine than mine, but her walk is a lot more masculine.

To me, I think the way a person moves is one of the bigger indicators of a more masculine or feminine energy. The single biggest factor for me in initial attraction, though, was chemistry. I know that might not be the case for folks whose relationships start off differently, but we'd known each other for so long that one night I stayed too late after a bonfire in her backyard and fell asleep in her arms as a friend. I was high for a week after that and knew I wanted that feeling again.

And, I've also had brains be the initial attraction, or personality expressed through writing anyway, long before I had the first clue about appearance. My last relationship started online after I developed an attraction to a butch I knew only from forum postings. Yes, I did see a couple of photos before we met, but they weren't especially flattering. Luckily I found her quite attractive in person, and she felt the same about me.
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:41 PM   #33
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Great post! Some parts I could so relate to and have changed the text color. Especially the passionate about something part. Ive always said I dont care what you're passionate about be it knitting, reading, flying a kite something! I couldnt have said it better myself

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For me attraction begins with a deep stirring inside of me on one or all levels. Physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
Physically, I have been attracted to many different types even another femme or two. I prefer average to larger builds. Long or short hair. Casual/preppy, the rebel with tattoos and piercings, in uniforms...out of uniforms lol. I have a thing for black boots. A penchant for Daddies and Syrs. A huge one for me is she must be a female identified butch one reason being because I like to touch and love them everywhere. I am physically attracted to someone who is comfortable in their female body. The more masculine their energy the better.
Mentally, I like to be stimulated and learn things from someone or I become bored quickly. I do not need someone from Mensa just be passionate about something, literate, creative, open minded.
Emotionally, I need someone who is compassionate, empathetic, stable, considerate, capable, and consistant. We all have some baggage but I can not be drained by low energy, negative individuals.
Spiritually, I am not a religious person but I am a spiritual one. If you don't believe in something...You may fall for anything.
Spiritual bonds are usually between soulmates. They can finish eachothers sentances. They are comfortable with the silences. You kiss them when you meet as strangers yet feel like you have known eachother forever. I want that kind of goosebumps.
I want someone to compliment my life not complete it.
On a closing note, I never expect from someone what I can not bring to the table myself. And I have learned the hard times in a relationship are the most telling not when things are going smoothly. I want to see my lover raw at times. And comfortable to be so in front of me.
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:59 AM   #34
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It is way past my bedtime so...I was sitting here thinking, what do blind people do with no visual stimulation? They have use of touch, smell, taste, hearing all available to them. I wonder what initially attracts them to a person? Also, what if your *new* lover you are dating was diagnosed with some illness that may affects their looks?Would you stick around?
I know it is a bit off the topic but I am just curious.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:40 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by always2late View Post
I wonder why it is so hard for most people to admit that, when it comes to dating and initial attraction, we are all prejudiced to some extent. (that's right, I said the P word). And really, isn't that what attraction is all about? I don't mean prejudice in a bad way...I mean it in the actual definition of the word. We prejudge, and to some extent, discriminate, based upon what particular features or mannerisms we find attractive. And there is nothing wrong with that. Everything else in a relationship can grow...love, trust, friendship...but that intial attraction, that click, that moment of frission...has GOT to be there. Its not something one can learn, or fake. Its either there or its not.

I like to describe myself as a woman who gets her nails done, but who isn't afraid to get her hands dirty . But a femme is what I am, whether it be dressed in a skirt and heels on a night out...or dressed in my rattiest, oldest sweatshirt while painting the shed. Its something innate in me, and I couldn't change it if I tried (nor do I want to). I find that in all my relationships the defining factor is this...I am attracted to masculinity. I don't care how my partner identifies, to me its all about their manner, their personality, their particular way of walking in this world. It has nothing to do with how they look, it has to do with who they are inside their skin. Could I be attracted to a feminine woman? Nope. And that doesn't mean I think less of femininity, it just means that it does nothing for me.

Just my two cents.
Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it!

For me, I don't know that I would use the word prejudice, but more preference or predisposition. I don't know that I would be prejudiced against certain looks or appearance, but my preference draws me to a certain type. It's hard for me to use those words in this context, I guess. Maybe because I am hyper aware of using them at all (in my world, they often have negative connotations)

I like this alot, "I am attracted to masculinity. I don't care how my partner identifies, to me its all about their manner, their personality, their particular way of walking in this world."
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:03 PM   #36
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It really depends on HOW I meet someone. Like if I meet them here, it is usually their brain, wit, or humor that catches my attention. If I meet them in person, of course it would have to be a physical attraction since I have not even had a conversation with them.

For instance, there is a woman here in KC that I met a while back...when she walked in to my friends party, I thought "damn she is cute...and look at those blue eyes!", then she smiled and said hi, and I knew there was an instant attraction to her. She was wearing a pair of motorcycle boots just like mine, only in brown. She had on jeans and a sweater, and honestly was not the typical woman I am attracted to (speaking of physical traits). I am usually attracted to women that wear heels, have their nails done, etc....come off as femme in appearance to me. (not that I am saying she is not femme, but we are talking about first impressions...visual first impressions....I guess you could say I was stereotyping in a way...bad G!!)

After she sat down next to me and we talked for about two hours, I realized that there was a lot more to her than her looks. Her sense of humor was off the chains! (and if you know me, you KNOW that is like the top of my list kind of important )

We have been hanging out, shooting pool, texting, going to movies, flirting, and just having fun. I am glad I didn't just judge her looks and move on because I would be missing out on getting to know someone that I think is very fun and special.

In the end, with her, it turns out it is a little bit of everything....mental, physical, emotional, etc. I think there HAS to be a combination of all the elements.

Over the years, as I have gotten older, I have come to realize that it isn't all about looks or physical appearances. I used to have this image in my head of the perfect woman (back in the day I wanted arm candy...I was a jerk, I'll admit that now), but I think I was being rather close minded to the possibilities. I have been attracted to women of all sizes, all hair colors...though blondes tend to make me nervous..lol, labels, you name it.

Anyway, just my .02!
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:43 PM   #37
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I was thinking about this last night after I posted, and I came to the conclusion that looks are superficial, really to me they are. I wanted a person I could share the rest of my life with, and as we all know looks change over the years. It is the inner person that matters to me, that connection to spirit that stays the test of time. Beauty is superficial, I've known some "beautiful" people who, when they open their mouths are rather ugly in spirit. I don't associate with that kind of person, and they sure weren't on my radar for a mate. I have a wonderful life mate who shares Her whole being with me, and that to me is where true Beauty lies.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:20 PM   #38
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Okay, so this is going to sound a bit weird, but bear with me, okay?

Say I'd met B. and Hys sister at the same time. In a sauna. With both of them stark naked. Physically, they are - or rather were, when B. and I first met - very similar: same build, same facial features, same skin tone, etc. B., however, wears Hys hair short in a masculine style, while Hys sister goes for a more feminine look. (Blue also sits 'like a guy' with Hys legs wide open - which certainly would have piqued my interest LOL - but I digress.)

Okay, so who would I have been attracted to? B. of course. But why? Because of a hair style? Shallow as it's going to sound, yes, because even though Hys hair could have looked like shit, it stimulated my primal instinct, i.e., my natural attraction to all things masculine.

(Want to hear even more shallow? B. once put on a blonde wig and some make up and then proceeded to try to fool my differently abled daughter that Hy was actually Hys sister, visiting from the States. It worked, we had a good laugh - all three of us -, and that was that. But honestly? If B. were to ever suggest doing it again, I'd say no. Why? Because sexually, the image of B. with wig and makeup, looking so much like Hys sister, left me cold and yes, B. picked up on it.)

So yep, mental and emotional is definitely important, but again, when it comes to initial attraction, for me, it's all about the physical.

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Old 01-16-2010, 10:12 PM   #39
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Thanks for this thread, Sassy. It's timely for me.

My honey identifies as butch, but she is very strongly female identified and somewhat tentative about the butch part. We've known each other casually for over a decade, and she's seen a few others I've had relationships with and has a butch friend of many years who tends to remind people of a lumberjack. She's compared herself with them and feels "less butch" because she doesn't like getting 'sir', owns some women's clothes, has a short but androgynous hairstyle, etc. Her decorating style is a lot more feminine than mine, but her walk is a lot more masculine.

To me, I think the way a person moves is one of the bigger indicators of a more masculine or feminine energy. The single biggest factor for me in initial attraction, though, was chemistry. I know that might not be the case for folks whose relationships start off differently, but we'd known each other for so long that one night I stayed too late after a bonfire in her backyard and fell asleep in her arms as a friend. I was high for a week after that and knew I wanted that feeling again.

And, I've also had brains be the initial attraction, or personality expressed through writing anyway, long before I had the first clue about appearance. My last relationship started online after I developed an attraction to a butch I knew only from forum postings. Yes, I did see a couple of photos before we met, but they weren't especially flattering. Luckily I found her quite attractive in person, and she felt the same about me.
there is so much to be said for chemistry. meaning, sometimes our bodies/brains have their own agenda and we have no idea how it happens! maybe you had no idea that you might have that feeling with her because she was always considered only a friend and not someone you would have sought out? was is about her appearance at all? just curious...

i've had amazing chemistry with some folks over the years based purely on sexual attraction and some because i was so intrigued by their brain...but all of them have had a certain appearance.

i guess i do have a "type"
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:17 PM   #40
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I met inks at a squat party. When she came in I was floored, smacked stupid, by how gorgeous she is. Tall, blonde, dutch, well built, alternative stylish half quiff/half spikey hair and the cockiest, trouble making smirk I'd seen in a long time. So it was a cross between, her very good looks and her physical attitude - by that how her personality played through her body language.

So I was instantly interested enough to investigate how much futher that attraction went. What followed was one big huge CLICK. I knew I had met someone incredibly important in my life, attactions be damned, this person has just made me feel like someone on the planet shares everything I need to be shared with someone else.

first though, before I spoke to her, I listened and watched. and she was obnoxious, mouthy, loud, opinionated, stubborn, firey, but in a way that was fucking funny and non-threatening. she took the piss. I love that.

I then sat next to her, bought her a beer and talked to her - there was no effort to the conversation. neither of us was shy or nervous (nervous came later). She then said all the magic words and phrases that ticked every single box and tickled every single place of joy and whispered to every single place in me that desperately needed to find understanding.

so with inki it was in the order of "PHWAR!" (physically appealing) then "oo'er!" (the attitude and style attraction) and then "gleeful sigh and raukus laughter" (the personality/brain suprise, and that's the glue bit that bonds)
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