Flirting in a Non-GLBT Space

Girl_On_Fire · 11-09-2012, 04:57 PM

Femme visability is something I'm sure many femmes can identify with. I wanted to start a topic on meeting a potential mate outside the GLBT community. Obviously, at a club, bar or website that caters to the GLBT community, the dynamic is understood but what about outside that space?

As a femme, if you meet someone you find attractive, how do you approach the person? How do you let hym/her know you're interested without feeling foolish? I don't know about you but I've got no game. I'm very shy when it comes to flirting or I'm way too forward. There's simply no in between with me.

I mean, how do you say, "Hey, I see you're in the Queer community too. So am I but you just can't tell. Want to have lunch?" lol!

I have this lovely rainbow necklace I wear that could possibly come in handy sometime but some appropriate social advice would be great.

The_Lady_Snow · 11-09-2012, 05:00 PM

I'm forward, if I get turned down, oh well. At least I know.

homoe · 11-09-2012, 05:08 PM

Nothing ventured nothing gained ~

pinkgeek · 11-09-2012, 05:23 PM

Just flirt. I don't change my tactic from gay bar to Starbucks. Someone being straight or saying no doesn't / hasn't ever phased me.

Being femme (for me) is a fierce endeavor and that includes getting my flirt on where and when I want to.

CherylNYC · 11-09-2012, 05:27 PM

Butches are often shy, and they have good reasons to assume that all women they might find attractive and interesting when they're in straight spaces are straight. We can spot them, but without that rainbow necklace they have no reason to suspect that they might be in the same room with one of us. Honestly, if I were a butch I would never EVER have the moxie to approach a woman for a date outside of designated LGBT space.

When I see an interesting looking butch I take a deep breath, then simply smile as openly as I can, extend my hand, and say, "Hi, I'm Cheryl". I catch her eye and smile some more, waiting for her to respond. If I get nothing, I just say, "It's nice to meet you". I then force myself to not immediately run away in terror. A shy butch may be totally overwhelmed by the sudden attention and may need a few extra seconds to order her thoughts before responding.

Just remember that a butch in straight space has had a lifetime of feeling like there's water everywhere with nary a drop to drink. When I put myself in the place of a butch in straight space I know that it would take me far more than a few seconds to overcome the habitual hobbling of my flirting muscles in that circumstance.

girl_dee · 11-09-2012, 06:10 PM

as i've said, a 2x4 in your purse works well!

Angeltoes · 11-09-2012, 06:22 PM

It's all in eye contact and body language. A lot of people think I'm flirting with them even when that's the farthest thing from my mind. If you smile and lock eyes with someone that person usually know you're interested.

ArkansasPiscesGrrl · 11-09-2012, 06:45 PM

When I moved up here to Arkansas from FL, it was often really difficult for me to find others that I thought MIGHT be LBGT. Gay-dar was not working for me, and I had been surprised (and subsequently embarrassed) by assuming that the butch looking woman was gay, when in fact she was more of a country-small-town woman. Big difference from the women I had been used to in FL! Combine that with my own femme invisibility and I just about gave up!

Then I saw a couple of women at the grocery store, adn do admit to following them with my own shopping cart. (I know, kinda creepy, right?) Trying to get their attention, smiling, then saying something like "I just moved here to AR, and it is SO nice to see other family here!". Or the usual "Do I know you? You both look so familiar to me! Umm, would you happen to be family?"

I ended up meeting my fiance in an online service. She and I were both JUST looking for friends. hehehe.

Gemme · 11-09-2012, 07:13 PM

Eye contact, that specific head tilt, and a slow grin usually works. At least enough to make them think, "Maybe...."

Girl_On_Fire · 11-09-2012, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Butches are often shy, and they have good reasons to assume that all women they might find attractive and interesting when they're in straight spaces are straight. We can spot them, but without that rainbow necklace they have no reason to suspect that they might be in the same room with one of us. Honestly, if I were a butch I would never EVER have the moxie to approach a woman for a date outside of designated LGBT space.

When I see an interesting looking butch I take a deep breath, then simply smile as openly as I can, extend my hand, and say, "Hi, I'm Cheryl". I catch her eye and smile some more, waiting for her to respond. If I get nothing, I just say, "It's nice to meet you". I then force myself to not immediately run away in terror. A shy butch may be totally overwhelmed by the sudden attention and may need a few extra seconds to order her thoughts before responding.

Just remember that a butch in straight space has had a lifetime of feeling like there's water everywhere with nary a drop to drink. When I put myself in the place of a butch in straight space I know that it would take me far more than a few seconds to overcome the habitual hobbling of my flirting muscles in that circumstance.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you!

Nat · 11-09-2012, 08:41 PM

Flirting in non-GLBT space is definitely a different ballgame than in glbt space. I don't know if what I do is actually flirtation, but I definitely convey my appreciation in what I hope is a harmless way. I don't think I knew how to flirt with butches when I first came out - but over time it's become second-nature to give that look of acknowledgement/appreciation/knowing that tends to cause a corresponding blush or shy smile or stammer enough times for me to know that the message is conveyed. And occasionally a free coffee.

My intention is more of an "I see you" in an appreciative way than anything more aggressive - because I don't want to unintentionally communicate availability.

When I was single and found somebody attractive, it usually worked pretty well to be friendly and direct. A casual compliment works well if the person is available and interested. Many people will open up if you ask a few questions that aren't too invasive but require an opinion or history of some sort. I think the secret to successful flirting is not to be too invested in the results.

Soft*Silver · 11-09-2012, 09:16 PM

I say we femmes need a secret sign to signal butches out there when we arent in a LGBT space...like, putting a thumb on our chin when they look at us...which would mean YES I AM FAMILY!

easygoingfemme · 11-09-2012, 09:31 PM

I think my double take and jaw drop paired with a goofy smile lets them know but...

If that doesn't work- some solid eye contact with a more pleasant smile and some easy conversation...

If that doesn't work than I assume they don't think I'm as hot as I think they are and I can move on.

falloutmk · 11-11-2012, 12:32 PM

So, I am a femme who likes butches and femmes but usually I get more starstruck by femme girls. I have been in starbucks and asked a straight girl out by accident but it was totally worth the rejection because she said it made her day how honest I was.

That could have turned really bad, but it doesn't hurt to ask or flirt a little even with femme's in non queer spaces.

Martina · 11-11-2012, 04:50 PM

I have had it work out, but the ratio of successes to humiliating failures (for various reasons) caused me to give it up god knows how many years ago.

I simply don't do it. I have friends who do with great success. Better flirters than I. Better at taking disappointment. I don't know.

One of the things I hate is when a butch thinks I am looking at her because I am a straight woman STARING at the dyke. I just can't fucking stand that. I don't need to be made to feel invisible AGAIN. Guess what, some of the feminine folks out there are DYKES. *Gasp*

Dude · 11-11-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheryl NYC

Butches are often shy, and they have good reasons to assume that all women they might find attractive and interesting when they're in straight spaces are straight. We can spot them, but without that rainbow necklace they have no reason to suspect that they might be in the same room with one of us. Honestly, if I were a butch I would never EVER have the moxie to approach a woman for a date outside of designated LGBT space.

When I see an interesting looking butch I take a deep breath, then simply smile as openly as I can, extend my hand, and say, "Hi, I'm Cheryl". I catch her eye and smile some more, waiting for her to respond. If I get nothing, I just say, "It's nice to meet you". I then force myself to not immediately run away in terror. A shy butch may be totally overwhelmed by the sudden attention and may need a few extra seconds to order her thoughts before responding.

Just remember that a butch in straight space has had a lifetime of feeling like there's water everywhere with nary a drop to drink. When I put myself in the place of a butch in straight space I know that it would take me far more than a few seconds to overcome the habitual hobbling of my flirting muscles in that circumstance.

excuse me
if I may invade the femme zone briefly
only to say this is the most insightful post describing
the butch experience that I have ever read
And it came from a femme.

thank you

Venus007 · 11-12-2012, 04:05 AM

I work the fundamentals of flirting
Smile
Eye contact
Arrange for a touch, shaking hands, hand on the arm etc
then move in for the chatting and flirting while working the fundamentals.
I have found a little bit of ribbing and teasing goes well to establish rapport
I get turned down sometimes, I get surprised straight women occasionally but usually I get at least a fun chat and a if I am lucky a phone number or we leave together

Ginger · 11-12-2012, 06:04 AM

When I see a butch woman in a public space, I catch her eye and smile. I'm not flirting (but it's okay if she thinks that). It's just a solidarity thing.

easygoingfemme · 11-12-2012, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandScout

When I see a butch woman in a public space, I catch her eye and smile. I'm not flirting (but it's okay if she thinks that). It's just a solidarity thing.

Yes to that a hundred times.

Girl_On_Fire · 11-12-2012, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina

I have had it work out, but the ratio of successes to humiliating failures (for various reasons) caused me to give it up god knows how many years ago.

I simply don't do it. I have friends who do with great success. Better flirters than I. Better at taking disappointment. I don't know.

One of the things I hate is when a butch thinks I am looking at her because I am a straight woman STARING at the dyke. I just can't fucking stand that. I don't need to be made to feel invisible AGAIN. Guess what, some of the feminine folks out there are DYKES. *Gasp*

Oh, I HATE that! Hit the nail right on the head!

11-09-2012, 04:57 PM	#1
Girl_On_Fire Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, Her Relationship Status: On Hiatus Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 690 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,020 Thanked 2,683 Times in 562 Posts Rep Power: 21474848	Flirting in a Non-GLBT Space Femme visability is something I'm sure many femmes can identify with. I wanted to start a topic on meeting a potential mate outside the GLBT community. Obviously, at a club, bar or website that caters to the GLBT community, the dynamic is understood but what about outside that space? As a femme, if you meet someone you find attractive, how do you approach the person? How do you let hym/her know you're interested without feeling foolish? I don't know about you but I've got no game. I'm very shy when it comes to flirting or I'm way too forward. There's simply no in between with me. I mean, how do you say, "Hey, I see you're in the Queer community too. So am I but you just can't tell. Want to have lunch?" lol! I have this lovely rainbow necklace I wear that could possibly come in handy sometime but some appropriate social advice would be great. __________________ "Quit trying to reason with unreasonable people. It's like trying to have a meaningful conversation with an end table." ~ Girl_On_Fire

11-09-2012, 05:00 PM	#2
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,119 Times in 15,678 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	Forward On! I'm forward, if I get turned down, oh well. At least I know. __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

11-09-2012, 05:23 PM	#4
pinkgeek Member How Do You Identify?: that grrl Preferred Pronoun?: she, her, grrl, piranha, monkey Relationship Status: captured.... Join Date: May 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 377 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,054 Thanked 1,456 Times in 311 Posts Rep Power: 13998705	Just flirt.. Just flirt. I don't change my tactic from gay bar to Starbucks. Someone being straight or saying no doesn't / hasn't ever phased me. Being femme (for me) is a fierce endeavor and that includes getting my flirt on where and when I want to. __________________ ------------------------------------ ~pink "I‘m heir to madness. Vessel of perversion. Your nightmare should you cross me." ((Want to read about my life in Hawaii and my ongoing war against the roosters and my pony size dog and my wedding?)) http://www.alohafemme.wordpress.com/ Last edited by pinkgeek; 11-09-2012 at 05:23 PM. Reason: clarity

11-09-2012, 05:27 PM	#5
CherylNYC Member How Do You Identify?: Stonefemme lesbian Preferred Pronoun?: I'm a woman. Behave accordingly. Relationship Status: Single, not looking. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NYC Posts: 1,467 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,474 Thanked 7,150 Times in 1,206 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Butches are often shy, and they have good reasons to assume that all women they might find attractive and interesting when they're in straight spaces are straight. We can spot them, but without that rainbow necklace they have no reason to suspect that they might be in the same room with one of us. Honestly, if I were a butch I would never EVER have the moxie to approach a woman for a date outside of designated LGBT space. When I see an interesting looking butch I take a deep breath, then simply smile as openly as I can, extend my hand, and say, "Hi, I'm Cheryl". I catch her eye and smile some more, waiting for her to respond. If I get nothing, I just say, "It's nice to meet you". I then force myself to not immediately run away in terror. A shy butch may be totally overwhelmed by the sudden attention and may need a few extra seconds to order her thoughts before responding. Just remember that a butch in straight space has had a lifetime of feeling like there's water everywhere with nary a drop to drink. When I put myself in the place of a butch in straight space I know that it would take me far more than a few seconds to overcome the habitual hobbling of my flirting muscles in that circumstance. __________________ Cheryl

11-09-2012, 06:22 PM	#7
Angeltoes Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Nunya Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Bernlandia Posts: 1,740 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,286 Thanked 5,525 Times in 1,386 Posts Rep Power: 21474849	It's all in eye contact and body language. A lot of people think I'm flirting with them even when that's the farthest thing from my mind. If you smile and lock eyes with someone that person usually know you're interested. __________________ Now say you're sorry for ushering in the fourth fucking reich- anonymous

11-09-2012, 05:08 PM	#3
homoe Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: ..... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 30 minute ferry ride from Seattle Posts: 38,565 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 20,811 Thanked 33,586 Times in 14,918 Posts Rep Power: 21474889	Nothing ventured nothing gained ~

11-09-2012, 06:10 PM	#6
girl_dee Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: dee Relationship Status: Hitched up Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Livin’ the Dream Posts: 24,079 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,560 Thanked 54,956 Times in 13,922 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	as i've said, a 2x4 in your purse works well!

11-09-2012, 06:45 PM	#8
ArkansasPiscesGrrl Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she, her Relationship Status: feeling pretty darned blissful right now! Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: central AR Posts: 856 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,594 Thanked 3,080 Times in 741 Posts Rep Power: 21474849	When I moved up here to Arkansas from FL, it was often really difficult for me to find others that I thought MIGHT be LBGT. Gay-dar was not working for me, and I had been surprised (and subsequently embarrassed) by assuming that the butch looking woman was gay, when in fact she was more of a country-small-town woman. Big difference from the women I had been used to in FL! Combine that with my own femme invisibility and I just about gave up! Then I saw a couple of women at the grocery store, adn do admit to following them with my own shopping cart. (I know, kinda creepy, right?) Trying to get their attention, smiling, then saying something like "I just moved here to AR, and it is SO nice to see other family here!". Or the usual "Do I know you? You both look so familiar to me! Umm, would you happen to be family?" I ended up meeting my fiance in an online service. She and I were both JUST looking for friends. hehehe.

11-09-2012, 07:13 PM	#9
Gemme Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Queer Stone Femme Girl of the Unicorn Variety Preferred Pronoun?: She, as in 'She's a GEM' Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: The roads are narrow here Posts: 36,585 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 182,168 Thanked 108,771 Times in 25,657 Posts Rep Power: 21474887	Eye contact, that specific head tilt, and a slow grin usually works. At least enough to make them think, "Maybe...." __________________ Gemme's Journal I'm misunderestimated.

11-09-2012, 08:41 PM	#11
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender Preferred Pronoun?: whatevs Relationship Status: in a relationship Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tx Posts: 3,535 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,042 Thanked 13,993 Times in 2,596 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	Flirting in non-GLBT space is definitely a different ballgame than in glbt space. I don't know if what I do is actually flirtation, but I definitely convey my appreciation in what I hope is a harmless way. I don't think I knew how to flirt with butches when I first came out - but over time it's become second-nature to give that look of acknowledgement/appreciation/knowing that tends to cause a corresponding blush or shy smile or stammer enough times for me to know that the message is conveyed. And occasionally a free coffee. My intention is more of an "I see you" in an appreciative way than anything more aggressive - because I don't want to unintentionally communicate availability. When I was single and found somebody attractive, it usually worked pretty well to be friendly and direct. A casual compliment works well if the person is available and interested. Many people will open up if you ask a few questions that aren't too invasive but require an opinion or history of some sort. I think the secret to successful flirting is not to be too invested in the results. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

11-09-2012, 09:16 PM	#12
SoftSilver Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: rose cottage Posts: 5,498 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8,407 Thanked 15,611 Times in 3,973 Posts Rep Power*: 21474856	I say we femmes need a secret sign to signal butches out there when we arent in a LGBT space...like, putting a thumb on our chin when they look at us...which would mean YES I AM FAMILY! __________________ Pole bachit, a lis chuye. The field sees, the forest hears

11-09-2012, 09:31 PM	#13
easygoingfemme Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Lil' Miss Sassy Pants Preferred Pronoun?: She/her Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: My place by the river Posts: 3,367 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,723 Thanked 14,130 Times in 3,011 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	I think my double take and jaw drop paired with a goofy smile lets them know but... If that doesn't work- some solid eye contact with a more pleasant smile and some easy conversation... If that doesn't work than I assume they don't think I'm as hot as I think they are and I can move on.

11-11-2012, 12:32 PM	#14
falloutmk Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Queer Preferred Pronoun?: Ze, Zir, or She, her, ect if needed. Relationship Status: Single, Poly, and happy. Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Michigan Posts: 88 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 105 Thanked 297 Times in 68 Posts Rep Power: 3839794	Femme's flirting with other Femme girls in cis straight spaces! So, I am a femme who likes butches and femmes but usually I get more starstruck by femme girls. I have been in starbucks and asked a straight girl out by accident but it was totally worth the rejection because she said it made her day how honest I was. That could have turned really bad, but it doesn't hurt to ask or flirt a little even with femme's in non queer spaces.

11-11-2012, 04:50 PM	#15
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,367 Times in 4,171 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	I have had it work out, but the ratio of successes to humiliating failures (for various reasons) caused me to give it up god knows how many years ago. I simply don't do it. I have friends who do with great success. Better flirters than I. Better at taking disappointment. I don't know. One of the things I hate is when a butch thinks I am looking at her because I am a straight woman STARING at the dyke. I just can't fucking stand that. I don't need to be made to feel invisible AGAIN. Guess what, some of the feminine folks out there are DYKES. Gasp

11-12-2012, 04:05 AM	#17
Venus007 Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Serene Highness ;} Relationship Status: Dreamily contemplating some outrage against conventional morality Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,362 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,417 Thanked 4,767 Times in 1,144 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	nothing ventured. . . I work the fundamentals of flirting Smile Eye contact Arrange for a touch, shaking hands, hand on the arm etc then move in for the chatting and flirting while working the fundamentals. I have found a little bit of ribbing and teasing goes well to establish rapport I get turned down sometimes, I get surprised straight women occasionally but usually I get at least a fun chat and a if I am lucky a phone number or we leave together __________________ . "I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction. " Ayn Rand, Anthem "So you'll die happily for your sins. You'd rather die in guilt then live in love?" Timothy Leary

11-12-2012, 06:04 AM	#18
Ginger Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Femme lesbian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: East coast Posts: 2,416 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,829 Thanked 12,310 Times in 2,057 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	When I see a butch woman in a public space, I catch her eye and smile. I'm not flirting (but it's okay if she thinks that). It's just a solidarity thing.