"Stud" versus "Butch" - Page 2

QueenofSmirks · 11-03-2012, 07:39 PM

Seriously? Everyone needs to take a deep breath. The OP even stated that the term is disturbing to her because she has heard it used in stock breeding. For those of you who don't know what that is, it's a term used on farms and ranches and other places on the planet for breeding animals. She did NOT equate animals to butches, so get over it already.

Glenn · 11-03-2012, 07:43 PM

But..why!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daywalker

That's because they are not the same thing.

The_Lady_Snow · 11-03-2012, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

Seriously? Everyone needs to take a deep breath. The OP even stated that the term is disturbing to her because she has heard it used in stock breeding. For those of you who don't know what that is, it's a term used on farms and ranches and other places on the planet for breeding animals. She did NOT equate animals to butches, so get over it already.

I think and I am only taking a guess because this tends to happens with this particular convo when it comes to animals referenced and POC cultural terms. Folks get sensitive when the animal/stud/POC reference is all lumped together. I don't think it was the case this time but maybe that's why it's a sore spot for some folk.

Hopefully some of the community members who identify as such can come in and help Girl on Fire

Arwen · 11-03-2012, 07:58 PM

So, interesting topic. I had never heard the word aggressive or stud used to mean butch until I hit the other site and then here. I understand them to be cultural usage (as has been stated).

I was familiar with stud being used for bio males (but not aggressive). As in "Hey stud, how's it hanging?"

Now, if you want to dig into this etymologically, then, yes, stud does have a animal husbandry background.

However, for me, I think that the use of stud as a term for a butch woman comes from the hetero male use of the word and not the farm hand. The same as "bud" or "buddy" or "bro" or "compadre". Capiche`?

Now I do know some butches who are animals (rawr rawr) but I don't know any who wouldn't understand that if I said, "Hey stud" I wasn't seeing them as some massive-donged animal in the paddock, but more as some massively sexy human that I wanted to flirt with.

That having been said, I'd like to pause to remind everyone that our dear friend Mercury is in cranky mode and will go into full on "everyone's stupid" mode on Tuesday.

Which ought to make poll day uber fun.

The_Lady_Snow · 11-03-2012, 08:04 PM

Mercury in Retro BUZZ KILL!!!

How long does it last????

Martina · 11-03-2012, 08:09 PM

How much more stupid can the Republicans get? Maybe they'll forget it's Election Day and stay home.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101772451

girl_dee · 11-03-2012, 08:11 PM

Girl on Fire

i find this subject matter very interesting and found your approach to asking about it very amicable.

i'm interested to see what others say and i tend to learn lots from these conversations.

Thank you!

BstlMyhart · 11-03-2012, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Girl_On_Fire

I wasn't saying that I saw people who identified as "studs" as animals. I was saying that's the only way I'd ever heard that term used before until very recently. I thought it would start an interesting discussion, which is why I didn't just "Google" it just for my own knowledge.

I meant no offense to anyone.

You really aren't being offensive. Ask anything you like anytime...this IS what we are here for...support.

julieisafemme · 11-03-2012, 08:24 PM

I agree with Corkey, from what I have learned in the community, that butch and stud or aggressive are not the same thing. Last year there was a huge kerfuffle in the community when Butch Voices decided to add "masculine of center" to their mission statement. Many butches were upset about this. The organizers maintained that the term MoC was more inclusive to communities of color who did not necessarily feel comfortable with the term butch.

I know that my partner came out in the 70s and that in his community people did use the term stud. I don't think it is that new.

Girl on Fire I don't think you meant to be offensive but it is important to understand that the question as worded was offensive to some. My goodness I have said any number of things on forums that have offended people. I take it as a learning experience and I am grateful for every person who did point things out to me!

girl_dee · 11-03-2012, 08:25 PM

i agree!

we were all new once and not familiar with terms and language. We all had to learn from others since there is no manual (or is there?).

i still stumble and i been around a long damn time.

i will always enjoy conversations that are brought forth from a place of honesty and sincerity, which i found she is. She seems willing to accept that even unintentional words can offend, and we must be careful of that.

i'm looking forward to more on this subject !

Martina · 11-03-2012, 08:41 PM

Two points

One, it is always good to be careful when asking about ID's. Perhaps more careful than the OP was.

Two, I am thankful we didn't dogpile the OP. I just am.

Gemme · 11-03-2012, 08:53 PM

Most of my thoughts have pretty much been covered, but to touch on a point Girl_on_Fire referenced in her OP, I have noticed that some of the younger generation of our community is using that term, and not related to the African American cultural connection.

I think it's interesting that the term is being adopted by a group that it may not normally have been associated with but I feel a tiny bit of hesitancy in that the original cultural connection may be lost along the way.

Greyson · 11-03-2012, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemme

Most of my thoughts have pretty much been covered, but to touch on a point Girl_on_Fire referenced in her OP, I have noticed that some of the younger generation of our community is using that term, and not related to the African American cultural connection.

I think it's interesting that the term is being adopted by a group that it may not normally have been associated with but I feel a tiny bit of hesitancy in that the original cultural connection may be lost along the way.

Can you say A P P R O P R I A T I O N?

Gemme, maybe I should clarify? I am not saying you are appropriating. I do beleive there are instances when appropriation does happen. You get the goodies without the price that has been paid.

Gemme · 11-03-2012, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyson

Can you say A P P R O P R I A T I O N?

Gemme, maybe I should clarify? I am not saying you are appropriating. I do beleive there are instances when appropriation does happen. You get the goodies without the price that has been paid.

Good, because I'm not claiming that term.

I can see how someone who does adopt this term might be appropriating.

kittygrrl · 11-03-2012, 09:44 PM

hmm...i don't think I ever have used this term ..however, i do understand it's used mostly as a way of expressing "buddy" or "hot-sexy-amazing"..but you shouldn't take for granted the person you are addressing will appreciate your greeting/endearment..especially, at this time of year..tip toeing thru the tulips, doesn't mean we shouldn't watch for the unwelcoming cowpie

Massive · 11-03-2012, 09:53 PM

For me personally, stud just isn't a term I'm familiar with or have ever heard being used here in the UK, so thank you to the OP for broaching the subject, I'm enjoying seeing this being discussed, as far as I'm concerned it's better to ask a question than to make assumptions or remain ignorant.

Ginger · 11-03-2012, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyson

Can you say A P P R O P R I A T I O N?

Gemme, maybe I should clarify? I am not saying you are appropriating. I do beleive there are instances when appropriation does happen. You get the goodies without the price that has been paid.

Sometimes, though, "appropriating" is a way of subverting power dynamics in a cultural or social construct. Members of our community appropriate male pronouns. Gays and lesbians appropriate straight marriage rituals. And so on.

Sometimes appropriation is kind of thrilling.

11-04-2012, 07:08 AM

Appropriation = using a name/label/title/id/term without "paying the price for the goodies"?

If I read this correctly then I suggest anyone under, say 50, possibly 60yrs old, shouldn't 'appropriate' queer, dyke, butch, femme, et alia, because they didn't pay the price alongside our older brothers and sisters fighting for visibility, the right not to have to hide who they/we were/are and a measure of equality way back in the day?

...or maybe I'm just being dense today?

Back on topic...as with Mass., it's not a term I'm familiar with using in the 'gay' 'community' over here in UK. Sadly, it reminds me of a bio bloke who's a bit too full of himself and reckons he's a shit hot lover. I will be very happy to replace this image with a more positive one.

I look forward to seeing what the name/label/title/id/other means in other places and/or cultures.

Sparkle · 11-04-2012, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakarti [B

Back on topic...as with Mass., it's not a term I'm familiar with using in the 'gay' 'community' over here in UK. Sadly, it reminds me of a bio bloke who's a bit too full of himself and reckons he's a shit hot lover. I will be very happy to replace this image with a more positive one.[/B]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massive

For me personally, stud just isn't a term I'm familiar with or have ever heard being used here in the UK, so thank you to the OP for broaching the subject, I'm enjoying seeing this being discussed, as far as I'm concerned it's better to ask a question than to make assumptions or remain ignorant.

Actually 'Stud' is used in the UK, but perhaps not as widely as in the US. In the UK 'Stud' is also an ID that is similar to (but not synonymous with) 'Butch' in that it is used mainly by people who fall masculine of centre on the gender identity spectrum and it is primarily used by people of colour (as far as my experience goes).

This film was featured in the LGBT - BFI London film festival this past year.

Scottish MacDaddy · 11-04-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Girl_On_Fire

Hello,

Curious femme here. Lately, I've noticed on certain lesbian websites butches are referred to as "studs". This seems to be a generational thing with younger butches especially using the term. I find if off-putting because to me the term "stud" implies some type of breeding stock.

Thoughts on this?

Hi Girl,

Stud can also be defined as the structural part of a wall that eventually holds up the house itself...And isn't that what being butch is about? Strength, tenacity of will and structure....all a part of the foundation of life.

So, next time you hear stud and it offends you to think of it in "breeding stock" terms....think of it in this way...

there are always two sides to every story....just how you look at it that makes the world of difference.

MacDaddy

11-03-2012, 07:39 PM	#21
QueenofSmirks Member How Do You Identify?: Just Me Preferred Pronoun?: she/her Relationship Status: Busy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Phoenix - Valley of the Sun Posts: 1,429 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,010 Thanked 2,920 Times in 879 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Seriously? Everyone needs to take a deep breath. The OP even stated that the term is disturbing to her because she has heard it used in stock breeding. For those of you who don't know what that is, it's a term used on farms and ranches and other places on the planet for breeding animals. She did NOT equate animals to butches, so get over it already. __________________ Stephanie "There is only one success - to be able to spend your life in your own way." Christopher Morley

11-03-2012, 07:58 PM	#24
Arwen Joy Seeker How Do You Identify?: Smartly-Flavored Preferred Pronoun?: Goddess Relationship Status: Mrs. Syzygy 1/9/14 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Joyville, NM (aka Land of Enchantment) Posts: 10,140 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,636 Thanked 28,131 Times in 6,414 Posts Rep Power: 21474861	So, interesting topic. I had never heard the word aggressive or stud used to mean butch until I hit the other site and then here. I understand them to be cultural usage (as has been stated). I was familiar with stud being used for bio males (but not aggressive). As in "Hey stud, how's it hanging?" Now, if you want to dig into this etymologically, then, yes, stud does have a animal husbandry background. However, for me, I think that the use of stud as a term for a butch woman comes from the hetero male use of the word and not the farm hand. The same as "bud" or "buddy" or "bro" or "compadre". Capiche`? Now I do know some butches who are animals (rawr rawr) but I don't know any who wouldn't understand that if I said, "Hey stud" I wasn't seeing them as some massive-donged animal in the paddock, but more as some massively sexy human that I wanted to flirt with. That having been said, I'd like to pause to remind everyone that our dear friend Mercury is in cranky mode and will go into full on "everyone's stupid" mode on Tuesday. Which ought to make poll day uber fun. __________________ I wrote a book, y'all! *FREE* Tarotscopes Seek Joy, y'all. Eschew hate. 9Words: A Poetry Challenge \| Do you like me? Last edited by Arwen; 11-03-2012 at 08:20 PM. Reason: skipped a word. :D

11-03-2012, 08:04 PM	#25
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,119 Times in 15,678 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	Hisssss Mercury in Retro BUZZ KILL!!! How long does it last???? __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

11-03-2012, 08:24 PM	#29
julieisafemme Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Woman Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Married to Greyson Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the present Posts: 828 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,156 Thanked 3,445 Times in 660 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	I agree with Corkey, from what I have learned in the community, that butch and stud or aggressive are not the same thing. Last year there was a huge kerfuffle in the community when Butch Voices decided to add "masculine of center" to their mission statement. Many butches were upset about this. The organizers maintained that the term MoC was more inclusive to communities of color who did not necessarily feel comfortable with the term butch. I know that my partner came out in the 70s and that in his community people did use the term stud. I don't think it is that new. Girl on Fire I don't think you meant to be offensive but it is important to understand that the question as worded was offensive to some. My goodness I have said any number of things on forums that have offended people. I take it as a learning experience and I am grateful for every person who did point things out to me! __________________ Happiness Bubbling!

11-03-2012, 08:53 PM	#32
Gemme Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Queer Stone Femme Girl of the Unicorn Variety Preferred Pronoun?: She, as in 'She's a GEM' Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: The roads are narrow here Posts: 36,587 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 182,179 Thanked 108,776 Times in 25,659 Posts Rep Power: 21474887	Most of my thoughts have pretty much been covered, but to touch on a point Girl_on_Fire referenced in her OP, I have noticed that some of the younger generation of our community is using that term, and not related to the African American cultural connection. I think it's interesting that the term is being adopted by a group that it may not normally have been associated with but I feel a tiny bit of hesitancy in that the original cultural connection may be lost along the way. __________________ Gemme's Journal I'm misunderestimated.

11-03-2012, 08:09 PM	#26
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,367 Times in 4,171 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	How much more stupid can the Republicans get? Maybe they'll forget it's Election Day and stay home. http://www.democraticunderground.com/101772451

11-03-2012, 08:11 PM	#27
girl_dee Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: dee Relationship Status: Hitched up Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Livin’ the Dream Posts: 24,079 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,560 Thanked 54,956 Times in 13,922 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	Girl on Fire i find this subject matter very interesting and found your approach to asking about it very amicable. i'm interested to see what others say and i tend to learn lots from these conversations. Thank you!

11-03-2012, 08:25 PM	#30
girl_dee Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: dee Relationship Status: Hitched up Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Livin’ the Dream Posts: 24,079 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,560 Thanked 54,956 Times in 13,922 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	i agree! we were all new once and not familiar with terms and language. We all had to learn from others since there is no manual (or is there?). i still stumble and i been around a long damn time. i will always enjoy conversations that are brought forth from a place of honesty and sincerity, which i found she is. She seems willing to accept that even unintentional words can offend, and we must be careful of that. i'm looking forward to more on this subject !

11-03-2012, 08:41 PM	#31
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,367 Times in 4,171 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	Two points One, it is always good to be careful when asking about ID's. Perhaps more careful than the OP was. Two, I am thankful we didn't dogpile the OP. I just am.

11-03-2012, 09:44 PM	#35
kittygrrl Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: je ne sais quoi Preferred Pronoun?: baby grrl Relationship Status: vibing Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: real close Posts: 8,805 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 21,382 Thanked 21,373 Times in 6,723 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	hmm...i don't think I ever have used this term ..however, i do understand it's used mostly as a way of expressing "buddy" or "hot-sexy-amazing"..but you shouldn't take for granted the person you are addressing will appreciate your greeting/endearment..especially, at this time of year..tip toeing thru the tulips, doesn't mean we shouldn't watch for the unwelcoming cowpie __________________ "All cruelty springs from weakness" Seneca

11-03-2012, 09:53 PM	#36
Massive Member How Do You Identify?: Trans man Preferred Pronoun?: He, Him Relationship Status: not looking Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Northern England Posts: 945 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,669 Thanked 2,383 Times in 765 Posts Rep Power: 17762094	For me personally, stud just isn't a term I'm familiar with or have ever heard being used here in the UK, so thank you to the OP for broaching the subject, I'm enjoying seeing this being discussed, as far as I'm concerned it's better to ask a question than to make assumptions or remain ignorant. __________________ You may not be able to choose your bio-family, but you can choose your Family

11-04-2012, 07:08 AM	#38
Daktari Guest Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: n/a My Photo Gallery	Appropriation = using a name/label/title/id/term without "paying the price for the goodies"? If I read this correctly then I suggest anyone under, say 50, possibly 60yrs old, shouldn't 'appropriate' queer, dyke, butch, femme, et alia, because they didn't pay the price alongside our older brothers and sisters fighting for visibility, the right not to have to hide who they/we were/are and a measure of equality way back in the day? ...or maybe I'm just being dense today? Back on topic...as with Mass., it's not a term I'm familiar with using in the 'gay' 'community' over here in UK. Sadly, it reminds me of a bio bloke who's a bit too full of himself and reckons he's a shit hot lover. I will be very happy to replace this image with a more positive one. I look forward to seeing what the name/label/title/id/other means in other places and/or cultures.