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Finding Your People - Special Groups Are you a member of AA? Neurodiverse? a Vegan? Find your people here!

View Poll Results: Are you a Veteran???
I served in the Army 24 46.15%
I served in the Navy 5 9.62%
I served in the Air Force 7 13.46%
I served in the Coast Guard 1 1.92%
I'm a United States Marine 5 9.62%
I served in the Army Nat'l Guard 2 3.85%
I served in the Air National Guard 1 1.92%
I served in a Reserve Component (please specify) 3 5.77%
I served in the Armed Forces of another country 4 7.69%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-10-2010, 10:38 AM   #41
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I am the daughter of a career Navy man...
I am the grand daughter of a Navy Bomber...
I was married to into the Navy...
I wanted to be a Marine...
They wouldn't take me because I REFUSED to sign over my daughter to my family...
Today I hold a American Flag for those who have fought and died and for those who continue to fight and die for our Country...
I am the daughter of a Patriot Guard Rider and I have been embraced by these fine men and women... They have pulled me into their fold... There isn't a thing they wouldn't do for me and I for them... They don't give a damn about who I love, they only care that I do love and that I give it my all... Just as they have done for their Country...
Thank You Veteran's!

Things I have from days gone by...
A bracelet from Vietnam that has the name of a MIA/KIA soldier
Pictures from Greece during WWII
The original copy of my grand fathers bombing missions and flight hours logged
A picture of a young man who was KIA, it has his address and everything on the back of it
Rubbings from the Wall that came through Colorado in 1987

I Love our Veteran's!
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:26 PM   #42
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Happy Birthday Marines, ooorah! Semper Fi.
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Old 11-10-2010, 03:01 PM   #43
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I want to express my appreciation to all our Veterans, troops on active duty and their families for the extraordinary jobs done and the extreme sacrifices made for us each and every day!!!
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:16 PM   #44
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Happy Birthday Marines!!!!! 235 years of honor integrity and valor. The world's finest fighting force.
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:16 PM   #45
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Default A question..

Under the DADT discharge from the military, are people stripped of things like being able to utilize education grants/loans, home loan programs, VA health benefits, military service pensions?

There are things on top of a person being forced out of the military via DADT having to give up a career that I am wondering about. Are there differences in "honrable" discharges for our members that have served and leaving under DADT that are just not publicized to the general public?

Also wondering about how targets of DADT get treated when utilizing things on military bases they are entitled to, if the paperwork in DADT discharges is on the up and up. Just can't help thinking that so much of this ends up with our folks getting a double whammy.

This is so damn hard when someone believes deeply in the US Bill of Rights and rights to privacy.
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:24 PM   #46
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Can't tell you personally, I was in and out before DADT.
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:36 PM   #47
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DADT was never a solution, it simply "sounded better at the time", and I suppose it was slightly better than the witch hunts and people vanishing in the night that happened before that....when I served....I was extremely disappointed in Clinton...it was a cowards way out, and I don't see that Pres. Obama will make it any different...it is an interesting question about the discharges under DADT...In my day they were either dishonorable, or general discharges...which was pretty much the same thing....I knew I couldn't have a family under the situation, so I got out after 6 years, but they lost a good soldier in the process...I am saddened that things have not changed for our glbt soldiers that continiue to offer their lives for this country, where they are still second class citizens in everyway....sorry about the soap box, I served honorably and with pride!
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:59 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by AtLastHome View Post
Under the DADT discharge from the military, are people stripped of things like being able to utilize education grants/loans, home loan programs, VA health benefits, military service pensions?

There are things on top of a person being forced out of the military via DADT having to give up a career that I am wondering about. Are there differences in "honrable" discharges for our members that have served and leaving under DADT that are just not publicized to the general public?

Also wondering about how targets of DADT get treated when utilizing things on military bases they are entitled to, if the paperwork in DADT discharges is on the up and up. Just can't help thinking that so much of this ends up with our folks getting a double whammy.

This is so damn hard when someone believes deeply in the US Bill of Rights and rights to privacy.
I can't speak to all your questions, Atlast, but I'll do my best.

Veteran's benefits, including education and home loans are dependent on a person's discharge. If they are discharged honorably or under honorable conditions, then they are eligible for those benefits. If someone is dishonorably discharged, then they do not receive any benefits. Under DADT, it is possible to be discharged either way. Most of the folks I know, were honorably discharged.

An honorable discharge is just that, an honorable discharge. The reason for the discharge will appear on your official discharge papers. I can't speak for the other services, but the Army states the reason for discharge. It cites the chapter number under which one is discharged, when applicable, but doesn't necessarily state "homosexuality."

Once discharged from the Army, you can only get back on base if you retired or are rated as 100% disabled. Your ID card does not state the nature of your discharge.

Hope that helped.
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:48 PM   #49
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DADT was never a solution, it simply "sounded better at the time", and I suppose it was slightly better than the witch hunts and people vanishing in the night that happened before that....when I served....I was extremely disappointed in Clinton...it was a cowards way out, and I don't see that Pres. Obama will make it any different...it is an interesting question about the discharges under DADT...In my day they were either dishonorable, or general discharges...which was pretty much the same thing....I knew I couldn't have a family under the situation, so I got out after 6 years, but they lost a good soldier in the process...I am saddened that things have not changed for our glbt soldiers that continiue to offer their lives for this country, where they are still second class citizens in everyway....sorry about the soap box, I served honorably and with pride!
I agree that DADT was never a real solution, and like you, I was pissed at Clinton for a long time for not doing what he said he was going to do and abolish this issue all together. However, when I really took a hard look at what he was up against, I understood why he did what he did. DADT did, to some degree, stop the witch hunts. At the time, Clinton was facing a Congress that would have surely, without a doubt, never allowed the ban to be lifted. He didn't have the votes he needed and he knew it. As a result of him trying an outright ban, there very possibly could have been a knee-jerk in Congress that would have not only disallowed the ban, but also placed new restrictions in place. I think he took the furthest step forward he felt would squeak by and amount to some improvement. Trying to force the issue of lifting the ban on gays in the military would have blown up in his face and we would still be having the witch hunts. The philosophy was something is better than nothing. The funniest thing of all though is that if every gay person in all the armed forces turned OD green tomorrow, there really wouldn't be any debate to be had in the White House, the Congress or society at large.

Glynn
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Old 11-10-2010, 09:23 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Goofy View Post
I can't speak to all your questions, Atlast, but I'll do my best.

Veteran's benefits, including education and home loans are dependent on a person's discharge. If they are discharged honorably or under honorable conditions, then they are eligible for those benefits. If someone is dishonorably discharged, then they do not receive any benefits. Under DADT, it is possible to be discharged either way. Most of the folks I know, were honorably discharged.

An honorable discharge is just that, an honorable discharge. The reason for the discharge will appear on your official discharge papers. I can't speak for the other services, but the Army states the reason for discharge. It cites the chapter number under which one is discharged, when applicable, but doesn't necessarily state "homosexuality."

Once discharged from the Army, you can only get back on base if you retired or are rated as 100% disabled. Your ID card does not state the nature of your discharge.

Hope that helped.
Yes, this clarifies a lot for me. Thanks. Especially retirement and the disability status and military benefits. Although, personally, I think service members should get a hell of a lot more overall. Bothers me.

I don't have a good background here (yet, have family that did serve, but really as enlisted during war time or drafted during a Vietnam) and also, so many of the things I did learn way back when don't apply today.
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Old 11-11-2010, 06:56 AM   #51
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To all who served, past and present. To those who carry the scars and to those who gave the ultimate sacrifice.
Thank you



As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. ~ John Fitzgerald Kennedy


"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty." John Fitzgerald Kennedy - Inaugural Address
January 20, 1961
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Old 11-11-2010, 09:09 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by AtLastHome View Post
Yes, this clarifies a lot for me. Thanks. Especially retirement and the disability status and military benefits. Although, personally, I think service members should get a hell of a lot more overall. Bothers me.

I don't have a good background here (yet, have family that did serve, but really as enlisted during war time or drafted during a Vietnam) and also, so many of the things I did learn way back when don't apply today.
Goofy was right on with his comments here!! Thanks for giving this info, Brother!!! I was in the barbershop, waiting for a haircut, when I read this thread on my Blackberry. I tried to type out a response on it, but was called for my haircut before I could finish!!

Like Goofy said, it depends on the character of a member's discharge that determines what kind of benefits they are eligible for, post discharge. You can read more about them and what benefits are given or lost here at this Wiki site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_discharge

Back when I was serving in the Marine Corps, my friends and Drill Instructors who were kicked out were given, by and large, General Discharges Under Other Than Honorable Conditions. For a Marine, it was an issue of "Conduct Unbecoming of A Marine", even though the Marine's character of service may have been exemplary. This meant that they lost their VA benefits, meaning health care and home loans. Educational benefits were contributory back then under the VEAP (Veterans Educational Assistance Program), so I don't think those were necessarily lost, but I'm not sure on this.

When DADT is overturned and GLBTQ members are allowed to openly serve, I do hope that those who went before, our Veterans, who were unjustly discharged because of sexual orientation/identity will be allowed to have their discharges amended/upgraded and their benefits as Veterans restored. It is simply only the right thing to do.

Semper Fi,
~Theo~
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Old 11-11-2010, 09:25 AM   #53
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Hello Veterans My adopted dad was in the Navy, and my brother in the Army... . My grandfather in the Army who served in World War II. To each and every one of you who served this country giving your all, and putting your lives on the line for the freedom we have today. THANK YOU. From the bottom of my heart... I love and appreciate everyone of you. To all those who paid the ultimate sacrifice with their lives... THANK YOU.

For You

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Old 11-11-2010, 09:32 AM   #54
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Here are some more for you to enjoy



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Old 11-11-2010, 09:41 AM   #55
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..Happy Veterans Day....

thank you all for those whom served to protect our Country.




this was a good kinda funny but all so serious at the same time.
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Old 11-11-2010, 10:25 AM   #56
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Old 11-11-2010, 10:33 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofy View Post
I can't speak to all your questions, Atlast, but I'll do my best.

Veteran's benefits, including education and home loans are dependent on a person's discharge. If they are discharged honorably or under honorable conditions, then they are eligible for those benefits. If someone is dishonorably discharged, then they do not receive any benefits. Under DADT, it is possible to be discharged either way. Most of the folks I know, were honorably discharged.

An honorable discharge is just that, an honorable discharge. The reason for the discharge will appear on your official discharge papers. I can't speak for the other services, but the Army states the reason for discharge. It cites the chapter number under which one is discharged, when applicable, but doesn't necessarily state "homosexuality."

Once discharged from the Army, you can only get back on base if you retired or are rated as 100% disabled. Your ID card does not state the nature of your discharge.

Hope that helped.
Navy 1997 - 2001

i am honorably discharged on a "rainbow chit" - my dd214 states reason for discharge: homosexual misconduct, and am never allowed to join the US military again. (i'm too old now anyway lol.)

my co fought for me to stay in, it was definitely an interesting time in my life. they sent me out to sea while they "discussed" the discharge, allowing me to complete my time for VA benefits eligibility. i thank them for that.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:59 AM   #58
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Dan Choi's Veterans Day Message
By Advocate.com Editors


As the United States honors the contributions of its service members on this Veterans Day, Lt. Dan Choi reflects on the war that gay veterans continue to fight at home long after the battles abroad stop.

Choi shared his thoughts in a piece for the Huffington Post:

"As we fight to repeal 'don't ask don't tell,' we know that this fight can easily be more painful than physical combat, as the people we fought to protect subject us to the harsh bigotry of popularity polls and the soft bigotry of political inaction," he writes. "Caught in this battlefield, it is easy to claim victimhood and suffocate in the sadness of national betrayal. Gay Americans, like all scapegoated and stigmatized minorities in America's history, know this feeling all too well.
But just as all the patriots who had to come home to fight for equality, we cannot heal our injuries by permanent sorrow and self-pity. The only treatment that can heal the wounds of betrayal and hatred is a recommitment to fight for each other, to stand up for each other, to love one another."


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Old 11-11-2010, 12:19 PM   #59
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IF you don't belong, I highly recomend it. There is constant news, for current and previously discharged servicemembers. DADT has been beneficial to many who serve presently. SLDN Reports Servicemembers Defense League Network

Here is blog if you wish to read and or tell your Story. . There is great info on the site, and there may be meetings in your area. I attend events when I can.

I served before Don't Ask Don't Tell. I was obviously gay as were my Superior USAF Dyke Officers, but no one openly so on base.

I received the "General Discharge" that the Air Force granted after thoroughly investigating me for 6 weeks to see if I "did anything against the US Government while in service". I didn't "Do anybody on base", my background was clean, so I was granted the Honorable...discharge versus spending time in the brig if I chose to fight for and make TSgt. Gawd I love that uniform. (Not me but great picture)
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:38 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoddz View Post
Goofy was right on with his comments here!! Thanks for giving this info, Brother!!! I was in the barbershop, waiting for a haircut, when I read this thread on my Blackberry. I tried to type out a response on it, but was called for my haircut before I could finish!!

Like Goofy said, it depends on the character of a member's discharge that determines what kind of benefits they are eligible for, post discharge. You can read more about them and what benefits are given or lost here at this Wiki site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_discharge

Back when I was serving in the Marine Corps, my friends and Drill Instructors who were kicked out were given, by and large, General Discharges Under Other Than Honorable Conditions. For a Marine, it was an issue of "Conduct Unbecoming of A Marine", even though the Marine's character of service may have been exemplary. This meant that they lost their VA benefits, meaning health care and home loans. Educational benefits were contributory back then under the VEAP (Veterans Educational Assistance Program), so I don't think those were necessarily lost, but I'm not sure on this.

When DADT is overturned and GLBTQ members are allowed to openly serve, I do hope that those who went before, our Veterans, who were unjustly discharged because of sexual orientation/identity will be allowed to have their discharges amended/upgraded and their benefits as Veterans restored. It is simply only the right thing to do. Semper Fi,
~Theo~
Thanks for more info that speaks to our Marine Corp. The link is very helpful.

I have been thinking a lot about exactly what you are saying about those that were unjustly discharged getting back what was taken from them. I want this to be part of the take down of DADT! And this action needs to be swift- not 50 years after-the-fact!
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