Ebola, news and discussion

[SleepyButch]

Originally Posted by Kelt

I couldn't agree more and should clarify that I was not talking about healthcare staff individuals. My thoughts are more about admin policies that allow for training and basic equipment to be inadequate for regular encounters with the sick public. The reactions are as though it was somehow new.

Anytime you put a lot of sick people in a small space things are going to spread. This time of year especially lots of folks will present with fever and who knows where they came from? I don't have the answers but also wish everyone could stop looking for targets and and coordinate getting sensible precautions in place. A possible positive outcome would be that facilities will have the needed supplies and training going forward beyond whatever this outbreak brings.

A surprise to me or maybe I'm misunderstanding... I though all hospitals in the US would have at minimum PPE and a negative pressure room. Is that not true?

Note; my background is not medical at all. I come from the biohazard/HAZWOPER side of "keeping tiny bugs out".

They should all have some type of PPE but I doubt if some of the smaller hospitals have what they would need to fully garb up for something like this. I could be wrong though. Does anyone work in a smaller hospital or rural hospital?

[GeorgiaMa'am]

Originally Posted by Kelt

A surprise to me or maybe I'm misunderstanding... I though all hospitals in the US would have at minimum PPE and a negative pressure room. Is that not true?

Originally Posted by *Anya*

2nd health care worker tests positive for Ebola at Dallas hospital
By Holly Yan, CNN
updated 6:52 AM EDT, Wed October 15, 2014

. . .

An official close to the situation says that in hindsight, Duncan should have been transferred immediately to either Emory University Hospital in Atlanta or Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha. Those hospitals are among only four in the country that have biocontainment units and have been preparing for years to treat a highly infectious disease like Ebola.

There's clearly some discrepancy in the amount and quality of PPE and other precautions that most hospitals have available to them, and that a few specialized hospitals have. From several comments, it also appears that the flu is more communicable and deadlier than Ebola; so, if it has been important all along to have better precautions for the flu, why don't all U.S. hospitals already have them? Something is just not adding up here, and that's what has me concerned the most. I don't want to go down the path of paranoia, but I feel like something is being withheld from us about the nature and severity of Ebola.

[Sweet Bliss]

The second worker got on a Frontier flight I just heard on the news. She is ill.

Geezus fricking crap. Who is in charge of this country's health? Anybody?

WTF? STERILIZED THE PLANE TWICE.....
Can't sterlize all the peeps on the damnable plane.

Or the hundreds of peeps they came in contact with for all this time.

Anybody read "The Stand" by S. King?

[TruTexan]

FINALLY, the Dallas News stations are now reporting about the 2nd Nurse, Ms. Vinson, that treated Duncan in his early stages of illness, is confirmed to have Ebola, and is on a flight to Atlanta to go to isolation there at the Biohazard Hospital containment center. What bothers me about this? This woman knew she was exposed to Ebola and was self monitoring for signs of Ebola, and while at home on paid leave, she took a flight out of state and then returned a few days later and immediately a few days later or so had to go to the hospital for signs of Ebola. There are clear and cut guidelines set at the CDC that they should NOT be allowed to travel like this and that it was YET ANOTHER MISTAKE ALLOWED. My other questions are that there are 75 to 76 total people that are at home and being monitored or are self monitored that were in contact with the Ebola patient Duncan. When are they going to tell the truth about the fuckups they are allowing to have happen? When are they going to stop this shit? How many more people need to become infected before they actually get their shit together about stopping the spread of this Dreaded disease?
How many more lives need to be taken? And why hasn't the world countries come together to stop the spread of Ebola in Africa?
I think there is a lot more to this story than we are being told.

The nurses Union in Dallas Texas is claiming that the hospital did not provide adequate PPE for the caregivers and also didn't train them as they should have been trained to handle the biohazard waste products of an Ebola patient. that nurses have anonymously come forward to have the Union speak out against the hospital for their lack of training and PPE issues. they are also claiming that there were biowaste such as soiled laundry and items that were piled to the ceiling in the isolation area because no one knew what to do with them.

How can a hospital allow this sorta thing to happen when they knew this paitient had Ebola or was at the least , suspected to have it? Are they just stupid asses running this hospital? I think they aren't equipped or trained to handle this type of disease obviously. And it pisses me off they haven't been prepared to handle it, knowing that there is practically an epidemic going on in Africa and travel is involved via airlines to all sorts of countries.Talk about population control.........wow just wow.

[Trev]

http://www.kctv.com/story/26789321/o...a-in-us-abroad

[SleepyButch]

So I got this directly from the CDC website. I was interested to see what they said about how this can be transmitted, which it looks like it has to be through direct contact with bodily fluids to broken skin or mucous membranes.

However, I did also look up how long it lives outside the body and have included that below as well. If dried on a surface such a door knob it can live for several hours. So I suppose if the traveling nurse on the plane got her bodily fluids on the tray table or something like that and someone came along and touched it afterwards within that few hour time span, they could become exposed. Supposedly hospital-grade disinfectants can kill it like household bleach. I'm sure everything doesn't get wiped off in the plane unfortunately.



Anyway, here it is:

When an infection does occur in humans, the virus can be spread in several ways to others. Ebola is spread through direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes in, for example, the eyes, nose, or mouth) with


•blood or body fluids (including but not limited to urine, saliva, sweat, feces, vomit, breast milk, and semen) of a person who is sick with Ebola

•objects (like needles and syringes) that have been contaminated with the virus

•infected animals

•Ebola is not spread through the air or by water, or in general, by food.

However, in Africa, Ebola may be spread as a result of handling bushmeat (wild animals hunted for food) and contact with infected bats. There is no evidence that mosquitos or other insects can transmit Ebola virus. Only mammals (for example, humans, bats, monkeys, and apes) have shown the ability to become infected with and spread Ebola virus.

Healthcare providers caring for Ebola patients and the family and friends in close contact with Ebola patients are at the highest risk of getting sick because they may come in contact with infected blood or body fluids of sick patients.

During outbreaks of Ebola, the disease can spread quickly within healthcare settings (such as a clinic or hospital). Exposure to Ebola can occur in healthcare settings where hospital staff are not wearing appropriate protective equipment, including masks, gowns, and gloves and eye protection.

Dedicated medical equipment (preferable disposable, when possible) should be used by healthcare personnel providing patient care. Proper cleaning and disposal of instruments, such as needles and syringes, is also important. If instruments are not disposable, they must be sterilized before being used again. Without adequate sterilization of the instruments, virus transmission can continue and amplify an outbreak.

Once someone recovers from Ebola, they can no longer spread the virus. However, Ebola virus has been found in semen for up to 3 months. Abstinence from sex (including oral sex) is recommended for at least 3 months. If abstinence is not possible, condoms may help prevent the spread of disease.


How long does Ebola live outside the body?

Ebola is killed with hospital-grade disinfectants (such as household bleach). Ebola on dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature.

[SleepyButch]

Originally Posted by TruTexan

How can a hospital allow this sorta thing to happen when they knew this paitient had Ebola or was at the least , suspected to have it? Are they just stupid asses running this hospital? I think they aren't equipped or trained to handle this type of disease obviously. And it pisses me off they haven't been prepared to handle it, knowing that there is practically an epidemic going on in Africa and travel is involved via airlines to all sorts of countries.Talk about population control.........wow just wow.

Hospitals get people with infectious diseases every day. Someone wrote earlier that more people die from the flu. Should all of those nurses who care for those patients be quarantined?

Why would a hospital in Dallas prepare for an Ebola virus outbreak? Africa is a long way from Dallas. I do also believe that the Ebola virus has been around for a significant amount of time. According to the WHO, there were two simultaneous outbreaks in 1976. That was 38 years ago.

The hospital with the outbreak was just the unlucky facility who was chosen by patient zero (Duncan). They probably wish that the he never showed up at their facility. This could be happening anywhere at any hospital. The hospital didn't make the nurse go on a commercial flight. That was her own mistake. I don't always agree with hospital administration but I don't think any of this makes them stupid asses.

Yes, it is the hospitals responsibility to train all of their staff on how to handle infectious diseases in general. For all we know, they do this there but if you are trained on something four months ago (just an example) and it doesn't come up, you tend to forget or you tend to get careless. Hell you can still be careless. If someone is vomiting on your protective gear and you take it off, you might get some bodily fluid on you. It happens. Nurses contract HIV/AIDs in this same manner. They contract all types of diseases this way. Not all facilities can have what the CDC has with the showers and air tight rooms and such. It's unfortunate, because they should have this but that's extremely costly.

I truly believe there will be others infected and probably in the Dallas area at that hospital. It's a virus. It spreads. People do the best that they can. I'm just not going to live my life in fear at this point and blame people when I'm not the one having to go through the ordeal. I also think that when you have an abundance of people reporting on a subject, facts can get misconstrued. Keep that in mind.

Anyway, just my opinion....

[MsTinkerbelly]

For a moment i got caught-up in the statistic of 22,000 people a year dying from flu, but i think in the case of Ebola we might be comparing apples to oranges.

With the flu, most people get a flu shot and they get through the season fine, some people get the flu With/without flu shots and they come through just fine. The people most likely to die are the very young, the very old and the immune compromised. With Ebola, there is no vaccine; Young, old, sick and well...all are at the same risk of 50-90% DEATH rate.

The flu means you get sick, and in most cases you are home with family/without family, you recover and life goes on. With Ebola, you are isolated, your house is decontaminated, your pets are isolated...you will probably die unless you are one of the lucky ones, especially if there is an epidemic and there are not enough people to treat the sick.

No, do not be fooled into thinking this is the same as the flu...not yet time for panic, but I'm scared. Why isn't our Government ready?

[homoe]

WHAT was this doctor thinking????????

H E L L O you were suppose to be in quarantine!!!

I don't know what I'm more disgusted with, her careless disregard OR the lame lame apology, if you can even call it that, once she was busted!

[SleepyButch]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

For a moment i got caught-up in the statistic of 22,000 people a year dying from flu, but i think in the case of Ebola we might be comparing apples to oranges.

With the flu, most people get a flu shot and they get through the season fine, some people get the flu With/without flu shots and they come through just fine. The people most likely to die are the very young, the very old and the immune compromised. With Ebola, there is no vaccine; Young, old, sick and well...all are at the same risk of 50-90% DEATH rate.

The flu means you get sick, and in most cases you are home with family/without family, you recover and life goes on. With Ebola, you are isolated, your house is decontaminated, your pets are isolated...you will probably die unless you are one of the lucky ones, especially if there is an epidemic and there are not enough people to treat the sick.

No, do not be fooled into thinking this is the same as the flu...not yet time for panic, but I'm scared. Why isn't our Government ready?

I think it's promising that people are surviving. I think it's promising that they gave the first nurse in Dallas the blood of the doctor who survived so she could get his antibodies. She is improving. Whether that is from his blood or her own immune system, who knows. It could be both. Hopefully it will be only a matter of time before the powers at be whoever that may be are able to get a vaccine for this as well.

On Monday, a clinical trial on humans began for the Canadian-developed Ebola vaccine. We'll see how that goes.

It will be interesting to see what happens here in the next few days.

[traumaqueen]

Originally Posted by SleepyButch

The hospital with the outbreak was just the unlucky facility who was chosen by patient zero (Duncan). They probably wish that the he never showed up at their facility. This could be happening anywhere at any hospital. The hospital didn't make the nurse go on a commercial flight. That was her own mistake. I don't always agree with hospital administration but I don't think any of this makes them stupid asses.

Yes, it is the hospitals responsibility to train all of their staff on how to handle infectious diseases in general. For all we know, they do this there but if you are trained on something four months ago (just an example) and it doesn't come up, you tend to forget or you tend to get careless. Hell you can still be careless. If someone is vomiting on your protective gear and you take it off, you might get some bodily fluid on you. It happens. Nurses contract HIV/AIDs in this same manner. They contract all types of diseases this way. Not all facilities can have what the CDC has with the showers and air tight rooms and such. It's unfortunate, because they should have this but that's extremely costly.

Nailed it... protocols and systems do not withstand the failure of a person to exercise good judgement. A breach in a PPE protocol can be understandable due to poor or lapsed training... repeated training and extensive measures can be taken to make up for that. Hopping on a commercial flight as a medical professional undergoing self monitoring/reporting - is poor judgement. Massive difference.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by homoe

WHAT was this doctor thinking????????

H E L L O you were suppose to be in quarantine!!!

I don't know what I'm more disgusted with, her careless disregard OR the lame lame apology, if you can even call it that, once she was busted!

The idiot factor is as always the unknown piece of the puzzle. Sick people who don't get care (we are a society that goes to work sick) and people who think the rules don't apply to them...these will be contributing factors to the spread, even if the hospitals are prepared for the influx of patients.

[cricket26]

all the comments are great and because we are all half way intelligent people we know this all comes down to the $$

the nurses in this situation are heroes and for them to request working conditions necessary to preserve their own lives as well as their patients lives is not too much to ask...no matter what the cost...

there will be a meeting tomorrow at 2pm to discuss a possible declaration of emergency by governor rick perry which may bring much needed federal funds

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by SleepyButch

I think it's promising that people are surviving. I think it's promising that they gave the first nurse in Dallas the blood of the doctor who survived so she could get his antibodies. She is improving. Whether that is from his blood or her own immune system, who knows. It could be both. Hopefully it will be only a matter of time before the powers at be whoever that may be are able to get a vaccine for this as well.

On Monday, a clinical trial on humans began for the Canadian-developed Ebola vaccine. We'll see how that goes.

It will be interesting to see what happens here in the next few days.

Yes, with better care in the west there is a better chance of survival, IF this does not get too big to contain. With the need for isolation and decontamination, we could see this become too big, very fast.

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

For a moment i got caught-up in the statistic of 22,000 people a year dying from flu, but i think in the case of Ebola we might be comparing apples to oranges.

With the flu, most people get a flu shot and they get through the season fine, some people get the flu With/without flu shots and they come through just fine. The people most likely to die are the very young, the very old and the immune compromised. With Ebola, there is no vaccine; Young, old, sick and well...all are at the same risk of 50-90% DEATH rate.

The flu means you get sick, and in most cases you are home with family/without family, you recover and life goes on. With Ebola, you are isolated, your house is decontaminated, your pets are isolated...you will probably die unless you are one of the lucky ones, especially if there is an epidemic and there are not enough people to treat the sick.

No, do not be fooled into thinking this is the same as the flu...not yet time for panic, but I'm scared. Why isn't our Government ready?

I was the one who referenced the 22,000 flu deaths. If you re-read what I said, I was not comparing the two diseases at all, I was comparing the level of media hysteria per death in the US. Incidentally, those 22,000 did not experience a peaceful recovery at home with loved ones. They died. The death rate between the two diseases is very different and ebola is clearly more lethal if contracted but dead is still dead.

I think the why and how of hospital preparation as it is (not idealized) was well addressed by SleapyButch.

Originally Posted by Kelt

I am having a bit of a problem understanding some of the reactions in the US to problems controlling an infectious disease...
<snip>
When I watched the video interview attached to the story out of Kansas I was glad that the Dr pointed out that 22 thousand people in the US died of the flu last year and yet folks are blasé about even getting inoculated against it. He also put up the thought that if 22 thousand people died of Ebola there would be rioting in the streets. I agree.

[Jesse]

Check this new website out!
"EbolaDeeply.org is a nonprofit “impact journalism” project that aims to provide better information on the current Ebola outbreak to Western media, while providing health information and alerts to rural African communities. It was designed to give perspective on the outbreak by aggregating news, data, analysis and expert opinion. EbolaDeeply was founded by CNN anchorwoman Isha Sesay, who is from Sierra Leone, and Lara Setrakian, founder of NewsDeeply and SyriaDeeply. "

http://www.eboladeeply.org/

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by Kelt

I was the one who referenced the 22,000 flu deaths. If you re-read what I said, I was not comparing the two diseases at all, I was comparing the level of media hysteria per death in the US. Incidentally, those 22,000 did not experience a peaceful recovery at home with loved ones. They died. The death rate between the two diseases is very different and ebola is clearly more lethal if contracted but dead is still dead.

I think the why and how of hospital preparation as it is (not idealized) was well addressed by SleapyButch.

I did mention that the 22,000 died, not sure where you got peaceful recovery? I pointed out that most people get the flu and can handle it at home. I compared it to Ebola where everyone needs medical care, probably as an inpatient in a hospital. I still think that the hysteria stems from a disease we (general population) know little about, and IMO we are not currently equipped to handle in mass quantities.

I compared the flu to Ebola in an effort to show why I (read I) was more concerned/scared regarding a possible Ebola outbreak.

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by Jesse

Check this new website out!
"EbolaDeeply.org is a nonprofit “impact journalism” project that aims to provide better information on the current Ebola outbreak to Western media, while providing health information and alerts to rural African communities. It was designed to give perspective on the outbreak by aggregating news, data, analysis and expert opinion. EbolaDeeply was founded by CNN anchorwoman Isha Sesay, who is from Sierra Leone, and Lara Setrakian, founder of NewsDeeply and SyriaDeeply. "

http://www.eboladeeply.org/

Thanks Jesse, this looks promising, the executive summary seems quite thorough.

Thanks for the source links too, their outbound links seem to be credible as well.

[Jesse]

You're welcome, Kelt. Hopefully, we will hear some semblance of truth from this site. I am over the media drama.

Originally Posted by Kelt

Thanks Jesse, this looks promising, the executive summary seems quite thorough.

Thanks for the source links too, their outbound links seem to be credible as well.

[firegal]

This is an example of the russian roulette that is played and has been for a very long time.

The risk benefit... all based on money/cost.

If there was a small pox outbreak in any state there isnt enough vaccines available {again decisions based on $] to give to all that would possibly be exposed, they would prioritize..... how ever they decide.

This is an example of one where there is a vaccine and because it hasnt been a issue [in there eyes] they dont ensure there is enough on hand due to cost and shelf life and storage.