Queers and Immigration

[nycfem]

Not sure if a specific thread has been started about this (couldn't find one), so I thought I'd start one. I'm wondering how many of us out there have been personally affected by the lack of federal rights for marriage between same sex couples in regard to immigration. I thought we could tell our stories here, as I think it's important for us all to share. I know for myself that until this injustice touched my life in a personal way I didn't fully understand just how "not easy" this situation can be.

While I haven't been in a relationship with a significant other in which this was an issue, I lived through a hard seven years with my younger brother (my only sibling), Dave, and his partner, Jan (a man), as they went through this.

Dave and Jan met about fifteen years ago and fell deeply in love. Jan was traveling (staying in hostels) from his home in rural South Africa and answered a personal ad Dave had placed asking for some hot, safe sex with no strings attached. Of course, they just about instantly fell for each other in that "soul mate" way that neither of them had experienced before! They were inseparable, and our family, myself included, also became very attached to Jan, seeing that he was clearly going to be part of our family forever.

And then there was their greatest problem, how to be together. Jan, son of a preacher and not out with his family, felt very uncomfortable with doing anything dishonest but eventually they decided that their only realistic option for Jan to stay in New York was for him to marry a woman. Luckily a close lesbian friend agreed. She did so for a price, and that was understandable, not only was she putting herself at risk and complicating her life for many years to come but there is a lot of work involved to demonstrate when immigrating that a marriage is real. We quizzed them for hours on each other, and it was always upsetting when they missed what felt like an obvious question. Documents had to show them living together, mail had to go to the same address- the work sometimes felt endless and went on for years! Then they had to stay married for more years than they cared to before they could divorce, with Jan a citizen. Add to this that every time Jan traveled home to visit his family with whom he remained close, he risked not being able to leave and return to America. I, and my family, were constantly on edge, worrying about Jan as well as in knowing that Dave would move to South Africa in a heartbeat if things didn't work out here.

Luckily everything did ultimately work out, but whenever I see any couple going through this, I am moved in knowing how much heartache is involved in these unjust situations. About five years ago, when marriage became legal in South Africa, Dave and Jan, while planning to continue living in NYC, decided to have a legal marriage ceremony in South Africa. By this point Jan had come out to his family, and his father was planning to perform the ceremony. Sadly they were again thrown into a legal bind when they found out that though marriage had been legalized, queer couples who tried to marry were being blocked by government officials, who would simply not process the papers, making up excuse after excuse. Even with the pull of Jan's father, they were not able to legally marry, as was occurring for many other queer couples in South Africa. Jan's father performed the ceremony, but it was not legal. A few years ago, they married in Connecticut and life has become a lot easier for them, but I remember back in the day when it was not. I am curious to hear others' experiences.

[Greyson]

I was once in a Bi-National relationship. It was for me, heart wrenching. It changed my perspective of what being an American citizen and Queer really means.

Last week at the BV conference there was a workshop addressing this very subject. The panel consisted of four women identified lesbians. Each couple on the panel consisted of one American and one from a European country, Netherlands and England.

All of the women were over 50. One couple lived in the Netherlands and the other couple here in the SF Bay Area. The couple that lives here in the States recently wrote and published their story in a book.

Fighting for My Wife, Fighting for My Life - Judy Rickard

There were people in the audience still in Bi-National relationships and people who were now no longer in the relationship that was an immigration hell.

[Sparkle]

I am a US citizen and I was personally impacted by (the lack of) immigration provisions for LGBT citizens in the United States.

1996 - I met my former partner, a UK citizen, while she was in the US on a work visa. By the time her work visa expired we were very much in love and very shocked to discover that there was no way to extend her visa and no way for her to remain the US (legally).

In 1997 the Labour Party, under Tony Blair's leadership, created an "exception" to the immigration rules that allowed bi-national same-sex couples to apply for residency on the basis of their "relationship akin to marriage". It became clear (for us) that moving to the UK was our only option for remaining together.

However, in 1997 the requirements for temporary residency were very strict and not attainable for most of us. Couples had to demonstrate that they had been in a relationship "akin to marriage" for a minimum of four years; to prove your that you had to demonstrate "continual cohabitation" at the same address for minimally 3years and 8months of those 4years, joint financial accounts, leases, loans, utility bills etc. But it was a catch-22, because of restrictive immigration policies and the lack of provisions for LGBT people the world round and the scarcity of long term visas --- meeting this requirement was nigh on impossible for the majority of couples applying; nobody could legally sustain that period of physical togetherness. And very, very, very few applications were being approved.

When I moved to the UK, I did so knowing full well I would not be able to submit a successful residency application. I was admitted to the country as a tourist and before my visa expired I submitted an application for residency. The Home Office (IND) was in the midst of the most incredible backlog of visa applications and the average processing "wait time" was 18-24months!!! The advice from leading lawyers in the field was that I should submit my application because Stonewall was lobbying the government to lower the requirements to an attainable level and the lawyers *hoped* that would be achieved by the time my application was processed. And, they reasoned, if it wasn't lowered I would be so near to meeting the requirements that though my application may be denied, I could win my case in appeal (some 24-36months beyond that).

It was a huge gamble. With no guarantees. And now real end in sight.

When I submitted my application, I relinquished my passport to the longest queue in Great Britain, with zero assurance of success. I could not leave the UK without withdrawing my application and I could not work (legally) because I was subject to the restrictions of my original tourist visa which forbids employment.

Those two years were some of the longest and most challenging of my life. I had occasional cash-in-hand jobs, but my partner carried the burden of supporting us financially. During that time, I worked full time as an unpaid volunteer at Stonewall Lobby Group, the largest LGBT lobby group in Europe. I helped to manage the immigration information and support team, we ran an information/helpline, legal referral and advice line and monthly meetings for LGBT bi-national couples and LGBT asylum seekers. I feel deeply honoured to have been witness to so many courageous people's stories, and sometimes legal triumphs. Working at Stonewall saved my sanity and my sense of self-worth during those two years.

And working in the Stonewall office as the proverbial walls came tumbling down and queers were granted rights, piece meal, was simply amazing. I was in the office when the ban on gays in the military was lifted, when gay adoption was approved, when Section 28 was repealed, when the workplace diversity and equality policies were first drafted and adopted by the government...it was truly extraordinary.

And my lawyers were correct, the government did lower the requirements for same-sex immigration from 4-years continued cohabitation to 2-years, which we then squarely met. In the late Spring of 2000, after my Minister of Parliament (MP) intervened, I was returned my passport with the magic stamp and I was granted the right to work. I still remember how completely and utterly dumb with shock I was after I got the call. I didn't even laugh or weep until the next day.

I received my permanent residency in 2002 and I continued to live in London until late 2004, though my relationship ended two years before. Between 2001-2004 I sat on the Board for the immigration group, which by then had separated from Stonewall Lobby Group to become its own entity known now as the UKLGIG, United Kingdom Lesbian and Gay Immigration Group. During that period we spent a lot of time working to secure funding for LGBT asylum projects, an issue that continues to be very important to me.

As others have said, being a part of a bi-national couple is a deeply heart wrenching and unbelievably challenging set of experiences.

Ultimately, the stress of the process and the weight of the constant struggle did alter our relationship in ways that undid us, and (after all we'd been through together) it was incredibly difficult and painful for us to admit it wasn't working anymore. But I don't regret a minute of it!!! We were madly in love and we were willing to sacrifice everything to remain together.

And given the opportunity - I'd not do a thing differently.

I'm very grateful for having had the ability to go through the process; privilege (race, class, age, nationality, education, gender, gender presentation) played no small role in my ability to pursue that course of action. So many couples can't do what I did, for a million real and valid reasons.

The experience provided me with the most poignant and deeply felt understanding of the phrase "the personal is political"

And the cherry on top was that I met some of the most extraordinary human beings in the world because of that journey, and I am so grateful for the ways in which their lives and stories and love - touched and changed mine.

[Linus]

As someone who is going through this right now, it is a challenge. I'm lucky that I have work sponsorship for immigration (the company approached me a few months ago inquiring if I wanted a green card --- what do you think my response was?! HELL YA!) I could get my gender changed on my I.D. but it has already been a long ordeal to just do name and doing the rest all over again? Sigh. K has said that for all intents and purposes I am a "M" so why not but to me, it's just a letter on a piece of paper that doesn't truly define me as I am. I recognize my past and don't want to make it go away so easily.

Anyways, it's been an interesting process at doing this while go through a L1-B and H1-B visas and now the green card option.

[suebee]

My partner and I are extremely lucky in that we live in towns on opposite sides of the U.S/Canada border. While we're restricted in how many nights we can spend "across the river", we can see each other every day. We were sorely disappointed a couple of years ago when the Maine electorate voted to repeal the then recently-passed marriage equality bill. But in the end, DOMA would have - and still does preclude any possibility of us being together in the States. Luckily Canada recognized marriage equality an number of years ago, and we are planning to get married later this year. I don't even want to think about the heartbreak we'd be living if we didn't have that option. My heart goes out to those who are living through it. It's incredible that my partner, a U.S. citizen, literally has to choose between love and country. Absolutely incredible.

Sue

[Greyson]

I was talking to a Queer Canadian friend about one month ago who is married to a Queer American. I told her I thought that some things were changing, slowly. I also told her that I think there is quite a bit of discretion given to the immigration officials in making the decision to deport or not. In other words, if you live in a conservative part of the States, it is even more difficult to get through the Immigration quagmire.

__________________________________________________ ______________


Deportation tide changing for gay couples

By Matt O'Brien
Contra Costa Times
08/26/2011


OAKLAND -- When a judge last week closed a deportation case against Filipino immigrant Raul Sinense, he and his husband, Peter Gee, celebrated by having coffee together on Berkeley's Solano Avenue.

The low-key celebration suited the low-key couple, who married on a Big Sur beach during the six-month window in 2008 when same-sex marriage was legal in California.

The occasion, however, also marked a turning point: The Oakland pair is one of just three gay couples nationwide to benefit from a new Obama administration policy that orders immigration officials to reconsider deporting illegal immigrants who have strong community and family ties.

"This is a really pivotal case," Gee said. "It seems like the tide is changing in the U.S. toward inclusion, toward equality, toward human."

Immigration Judge Tue Phan-Quang ordered the case against Sinense closed on Aug. 16 because the immigration service said a few days earlier it was no longer seeking to deport Sinense to the Philippines. The problems are not over for Sinense -- his case is not decisively terminated, just on indefinite hold -- but the action means the couple won't be separated and Sinense can reapply for a work permit.

"San Francisco right now is really the center of this policy shift," said Camiel Becker, the couple's lawyer. "We have judges who don't want to deport people if they're in a same-sex marriage. It's not just by chance. The trial attorneys and the judges understand this is a human right. If we were in the Harlingen, Texas, court, this would not be happening. This is all discretionary."

A June 17 memorandum from John Morton, the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, was the first sign of major changes happening within the nation's complicated immigration enforcement apparatus, which deported a record 393,000 people last year.

Morton listed new guidelines for agents to use "prosecutorial discretion" when deciding whom to deport, and said special consideration should be made for students and other upstanding immigrants, especially when their removal from the country would split a family apart. For much of the summer, however, lawyers across the country remained unclear about whether the agency would show same-sex spouses the same discretion it shows opposite-sex spouses and other immediate family members.

Six states allow same-sex marriages but the federal government does not recognize them.

On June 29, a federal immigration judge in New Jersey was the first to halt the deportation of a gay spouse, a Venezuelan man who had married a U.S. citizen in Connecticut.

On July 13, San Francisco-based immigration Judge Marilyn Teeter halted the deportation of another Venezuelan man, Alex Benshimol, who had married his Southern California partner in Connecticut. Teeter gave immigration officials two months to contest her decision.

The answer came Aug. 11, when Aaron Keesler, a lawyer for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, wrote back that the agency was dropping its case against Benshimol.

On the same day, Keesler said the deportation case against Sinense was being dropped, and a judge formally closed that case Aug. 16.

That made Sinense, 46, and Gee, 49, one of the first three binational gay couples to be spared from separation as a result of the new policy.

"I see myself growing old with Peter," Sinense said. "It would have been difficult starting my whole life over again."

White House officials and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano made the new discretionary policy more explicit Aug. 18 when they announced they would begin a case-by-case review of the nation's 300,000 pending deportation cases and close those against many illegal immigrants who are not criminals or repeat violators of immigration laws. The White House also made clear, for the first time, that same-sex marriages would be treated as a family tie.

Gee said the reprieve brought closure to a difficult time for the couple, who moved to East Oakland from Southern California less than two years ago.

"We were so naive about the whole process, what the options were, what to do," Gee said. "We don't have O.J. Simpson's legal budget."

Sinense has lived in California for about 15 years and had been working to get a green card. An insurance company agreed to sponsor him for an employment-based visa, he said, and he was able to get a legal work permit as he waded through the application process. In the meantime, he also met Gee, a native Californian and professional artist, and fell in love.

At their wedding ceremony in 2008, Sinense told guests of Gee's "gentle aura." Gee described how he was immediately connected by Sinense's smile that put him at ease, and talked of their journey into a "most ordinary and simple life" together.

They learned the next year that it wouldn't be so simple. The work visa plans fell through in the recession and Sinense received a deportation notice in 2009. They talked about what would happen if Sinense was forced to leave.

For Becker, their lawyer, keeping the couple together wasn't just a matter of legal prowess. It was also personal.

A decade ago, Becker fell in love with a Salvadoran man while he was working in El Salvador. The pair wanted to move together to the United States, but the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which bans same-sex marriage, made it impossible for Becker to apply for a green card on his partner's behalf, as he could have done if he married a Salvadoran woman. The same law made it impossible for Gee to apply for a green card for Sinense, though their marriage is considered legally valid in California.

Becker wrote about his experience last year in an essay for a local news outlet. Gee and Sinense read that essay and, after having contacted dozens of lawyers, decided it was Becker they wanted helping them.

Months after he took on their case, Becker began to sense that the Defense of Marriage Act was cracking when the Justice Department announced in February that it would stop defending it because it considered the act unconstitutional.

"At that point, I felt there was no way I was going to let Raul be deported. I just wasn't going to let that happen," Becker said.

He argued in court that the Constitution requires the couple's same-sex marriage license to be recognized under immigration law. He encouraged Oakland Mayor Jean Quan, a friend of the couple, to write a letter on their behalf, which she did.

Gee and Sinense said they began to see their legal battle as a civil rights cause.

"I just see it as a right and I feel like it's happening, it's going to happen, it has to happen," Gee said.


http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_18765725

[Aklboi]

Hello I born and raised in Hawaii. My wife to be born and raised in Philippines we been together for 17 month we are deeply in love and she getting abuse by her dad all the time. I want her come here for good I wanna do legal way I being looking and asking ppl help on yahoo question i get stupid question I so lost if anyone can offer me guidelines I would be very appreciate thank you very much

[girl_dee]

I am immigrating to Canada and learning the process as I go, and in the words of the cocky OFFICIAL at the border when I came back after a holiday, "pffft....Good luck staying here legally just because you like it here, I ALMOST didn't let you through, you have one month then you have to leave"

Now I was standing there with my very butch partner and I wish I knew how her reaction would have been had I been standing there with my very invisible femme self.

I am working legally now and jumped through all of the hoops but it's not easy. The border agents in Canada are completely obnoxious and take some sadistic joy out of reminding you that it is THIER discretion on whether to let you through or not.

[Tawse]

Gillian and I are legally married in Canada (and some states I suppose) and we both live in Atlanta. We were very fortunate in the fact that she is a nurse and had no problems what so ever in gaining green card status and within a couple of short years she'll be going for duo citizenship. And for me - I'll be able to get my duo citizenship for Canada since I'm married to her and it's recognized in Canada.

As far as crossing the border - we tell the Canadian side that we're married and have never had a problem (or actually even a side glance which is odd) however we won't tell the US side. Nu uh.

[Julie]

I am sure most of you know, Dreamer and I have been dealing with Immigration laws in the United States for almost two years.

Dreamer lives in Australia and I live in the United States -- 2 years later and about 10k in travel -- We are still where we were. We can marry in NY, but I cannot sponsor Dreamer for a green card, because of the laws of DOMA.

Yesterday, a Trial Judge Rejects DOMA Challenge in Immigration Case, Citing '82 Appeals Court Ruling

http://www.metroweekly.com/poliglot/...oma-chall.html
Posted by Chris Geidner |
September 29, 2011 1:15 PM

Writing that he was bound by a 1982 appeals court decision whose reasoning the U.S. Department of Justice had argued was "no longer valid today," U.S. District Court Judge Stephen V. Wilson dismissed an immigration case challenging the Defense of Marriage Act brought by Indonesian citizen Hamdi Lui and his American husband, Michael Ernest Roberts.

The news, first reported by The Advocate's Andrew Harmon, means that the House Republican leadership, whose 3-2 control of the Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group has allowed it to intervene to defense DOMA in court challenges in recent months, secured its first court win in defense of the 1996 law.

The win, though, was a limited one -- as Wilson wrote that the previous appellate court decision controlled his decision and, thus, he could not consider the merits of Lui and Roberts's case arguing that Section 3 of DOMA, the federal definition of marriage, is unconstitutional.

Wilson, in discussing the claims raised by Lui and Roberts, wrote in an order issued on Sept. 28, "To the extent that Plaintiffs Challenge Section 3 of DOMA on equal protection grounds, that issue has been decided by [the 1982 case,] Adams [v. Howerton]."

As Metro Weekly reported on Sept. 6, DOJ -- which announced on Feb. 23 that it was stopping defending DOMA in court challenges -- faulted BLAG in a filing in the case for relying ''[t]hroughout their brief'' on Adams -- a case decided by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which includes the California federal court where Lui and Roberts's case is being heard. The appeals court held in the case that "Congress has determined that preferential status is not warranted for the spouses of homosexual marriages."

The DOJ lawyers argue, however, that ''[t]he reasons the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed the denial of immigration benefits in Adams are no longer valid today,'' citing changed laws -- at the time of the opinion there was a statutory exclusion in the Immigration and Nationality Act for "homosexual aliens" -- as well as "intervening events and changing legal and social understandings."

Wilson, though, found that the 1982 decision constrains him -- as a trial court judge -- from being able to make a decision on the question raised by Lui and Roberts without deferring to the Adams decision from the appeals court.

"While Plaintiffs and Defendants point out the alleged deficiencies in the reasoning in Adams, this Court is not in a position to decline to follow Adams or critique its reasoning simply because Plaintiffs and Defendants believe that Adams is poorly reasoned," Wilson writes in the order. "The Court feels bound by Ninth Circuit precedent, and believes that those precedents are sufficiently clear."

The judge found that an en banc panel of the Ninth Circuit or a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court would be needed to overrule the Adams decision before an immigration-related DOMA challenge brought in the Ninth Circuit could succeed.

Read Wilson's order: LuiVHolder-Order.pdf

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Aklboi

Hello I born and raised in Hawaii. My wife to be born and raised in Philippines we been together for 17 month we are deeply in love and she getting abuse by her dad all the time. I want her come here for good I wanna do legal way I being looking and asking ppl help on yahoo question i get stupid question I so lost if anyone can offer me guidelines I would be very appreciate thank you very much

Unless Hawaii has some separate method, she'd probably best immigrate as a worker since same-sex partnerships are not recognized for immigration at this time.

I'd say that going to this site: http://www.immigrationequality.org/ may give you some resources to help.

Good luck!

[suebee]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

I am immigrating to Canada and learning the process as I go, and in the words of the cocky OFFICIAL at the border when I came back after a holiday, "pffft....Good luck staying here legally just because you like it here, I ALMOST didn't let you through, you have one month then you have to leave"

Now I was standing there with my very butch partner and I wish I knew how her reaction would have been had I been standing there with my very invisible femme self.

I am working legally now and jumped through all of the hoops but it's not easy. The border agents in Canada are completely obnoxious and take some sadistic joy out of reminding you that it is THIER discretion on whether to let you through or not.

We've had the exact opposite experience. The border agents have been nothing but respectful. We decided from the very start that we would be completely up front that we were dating. We figured that if we DID run into any discrimination we would have a much better chance of successfully dealing with it if it was out there on the table, rather than being simply perceived on their part. I crossed the border the other day to go to a memorial service for Dandy's aunt, who passed on the weekend, and when the U.S. border agent learned where I was going he actually asked me to give her his condolences. He knows who we are and is very helpful when anything comes up. Of course, in a small community we have the advantage of being known by most of the officials we deal with at the border. We're very grateful that we've been so fortunate. Sorry you're not having as positive experience as we are Dee. That sucks.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

I am immigrating to Canada and learning the process as I go, and in the words of the cocky OFFICIAL at the border when I came back after a holiday, "pffft....Good luck staying here legally just because you like it here, I ALMOST didn't let you through, you have one month then you have to leave"

Now I was standing there with my very butch partner and I wish I knew how her reaction would have been had I been standing there with my very invisible femme self.

I am working legally now and jumped through all of the hoops but it's not easy. The border agents in Canada are completely obnoxious and take some sadistic joy out of reminding you that it is THIER discretion on whether to let you through or not.

I don’t understand why that border guard would say something like that. Canada has the highest per capita net immigration rate in the world. They have a pretty wide open immigration policy. Compared to the U.S., well it isn’t remotely comparable, so forget that. The U.S. accepts more refugees than any other nation. Since there aren’t any Canadian refugees seeking protection in the U.S., that I know of anyway, immigrating from Canada to the U.S is much more difficult, unless you have some trade or vocation that is sought after. It is infinitely easier to immigrate from the U.S. to Canada, especially for same sex couples.

What category are you trying to immigrate under? It sounds like you already have a work permit. As a U.S. citizen you can live legally in Canada for 6 months. Though if you are going back and forth over the border a lot you might consider getting a visitor's record. That is what I did. I immigrated under the family class and never had a bit of trouble getting over the border and I traveled back and forth frequently. As a matter of fact I brought tons of stuff over without any hassle. I had most of my stuff already here by the time I got legal permission to bring my personal things over.

The first time I flew from Boston to Montreal I remember being asked numerous, what I considered absurd, questions. I had never traveled where I had to cross over borders before. I was appalled at what I considered to be invasive questions. Here is an excerpt already in progress:

Agent: "Who are you going to visit?"

Me: "Andrea."

Agent: "What is her last name?"

Me: "I don't know."

Agent: "You don't know the last name of the person you are going to visit?"

Me: "That's right."

Agent: "What is her address?"

Me: "I don't know."

Agent: "You are going to visit someone and you don't know her last name or her address?"

Me: "That's right. She did tell me her last name but I forgot. Also, I don't know my way around Montreal so memorizing her address seemed unnecessary, especially since she is picking me up and is hopefully waiting for me outside. However had I known these were things I needed to know to enter Canada I would certainly have written them down.”

At that point the guy made a disgusted sound and pushed my passport at me.

Of course I knew the answers to his questions but I didn’t like him asking them. It felt intrusive and I thought it was none of his business. I wasn’t aware of the questions border people ask and have a right to ask. Which is anything and everything.

Flash forward eight years and I’ve become quite familiar with their questions. But every time I think I’ve heard it all, I get surprised. But no one has ever been rude or unhelpful.

But yes, without question, and never doubt it for a minute, it is always at the discretion of the border guard whether you will be allowed to enter their country. I was just lucky that guy at the airport was feeling generous or bored or both. It could have turned out badly for me and it could have ended up a much longer wait at the airport.

When I look back over the years before I became a permanent resident and subsequently a Canadian citizen, I remember being quite nervous when I had to cross over and then come back into Canada. I knew there could always be issues. It is scary when someone has the power to keep you from your home and your loved ones. But I have to say I had no problems at all. Never. And once I had a visitor’s record it was really a piece of cake. I remember when I stopped in at the border to renew my visitor’s record the border guard told me that I had been accepted as a permanent resident and no longer would need a visitor's record, but he would renew my visitor’s record just in case it took awhile for the stuff to be mailed out. He didn’t have to tell me that, he could have just given me the record and let me wait to find out the good news. Very cool that he did though.

Now that I have dual citizenship I am never questioned coming back into Canada. They just want to know what I have to declare. When going into the U.S. though there are still questions even though I am a U.S. citizen because Andrea is not. They always ask where we live and either how we know each other or what is the nature of our relationship. I just say “she’s my wife.” I haven’t had any real trouble from the U.S border guards. Sometimes that response seems to cause them to ask tons more questions and look in the trunk but other times we just get a smile, a couple of perfunctory questions, and wish for a nice day when our passports are returned and we are waved on.

I always show my U.S. passport when I enter the U.S. When I enter Canada or any other country I always show my Canadian passport because Canada is where I live.

[girl_dee]

I don't know why she said that to me either, but she did.

While visiting in Canada, I went to the states and back into Canada twice . Each time was a nightmare at the border.

The first time I was picked up by my Syr who was unaware I was being interrogated and wondering wtf happened to me after I got off the plane. This border agent woman was just as obnoxious as she could be. This is how it went:


*Do you have a home address in the states?*

*Yes* and I gave it to her

*Do you have mail, a bill anything to prove it is your address?*

*No, I wasn't aware I needed that, I have my drivers license* (she cuts me off)

*You need to prove you are not working illegally*

*How can I do that?*

*Do you have a plane ticket for the end of your stay?*

*no since I don't know when that will be*

*Do you have a bank statement showing you have enough money to support yourself?*

*No but I do have money in the bank*

(Cuts me off everytime)

*Do you have cash on you?*

*yes*

*I need to see it*

I pulled out my Canadian AND american money and laid it across the counter which she glanced at. Then:

*Is someone here to pick you up?*

*Yes*

*who is it*

*Bren*

*how long have you known Bren?*
*How long have you been here, how long were you in the states, where did you work, what is your profession, how long were you at your address in the states, on and on and on*.. i answered them all truthfully of course but sheesh! Then..

*How did you meet Bren?*

*where are you staying *

*Does Bren have a cell phone?*

*yes, why?*

*I need the number*

*gives her the number*

The woman goes somewhere else and calls my Syr, who did not hear her phone in the busy airport. They then PAGED her over the loudspeaker!

She comes back and says I have to wait until she comes to talk to her. Meanwhile I have to wait with all these folks who are from God knows where trying to get into Canada too. All of us feeling like we just robbed a bank. One girl had a dead battery on her phone and could not give the woman the number of the person there to pick her up.

Finally I get called to the counter and stamped with a 3 month stay. Since I had been here for 2 months she thought 3 more months was enough. Apparently they called my Syr into a room and asked her all the same question as me, how did we meet, how long have we known each other etc...
luckily we were both honest and our stories matched. After her hundredth question on how we know each other I do believe Syr informed her that yes she was fucking me and would like to have me back in for a longer stay.. (and a laugh) the officer became in a better mood and even gave me a smile as she slid my visitor record over to me.


I then applied for an extension and received it. SO thought it was safe to leave and come back in...WRONG. The border agent this time was a pure bitch and did not want to let me back in, EVEN with a visitor pass in my hand. She then went on to very abruptly explain that it's 180 days inside of a year, LIMIT.. that I was just about out of days and she would *let me slide* and stay for the remainder of the month. 14 days. I said *Ok, thats fine, how do people immigrate to Canada, I love it here and want to stay*

*hmmmpf ...Good luck finding anyone to let you in because you "Like it here" * .. sort of mocking me...and added *I ALMOST did not let you back in*

I then applied for another extension and while that was being processed I received my work permit. I couldn't even apply for that until my boss received her positive opinion from the government which she had been fighting for 6 months.(ANother nightmare) Once she had that I ran to the border and got my permit. THAT was a good day. I just went and came to the states with that in my hand with no problem.

I mean really! Just give me the facts and I can deal with that, the arrogance and accusation type tone is really unnecessary. All it does it make me nervous and feel like I am a criminal, when actually I just wanted to come for a visit! I've been here long enough to know I want to live here forever, so after my work visa I will be trying for citizen. I completely understand offering jobs to Canadians first, we did that, still they were not happy, they also told us we have to prove in a year that the business has had an increase due to the clients I will bring in.. seriously? what difference does it make to the government if my boss wants to keep me on for any reason whatsoever, but luckily there is an increase so we are documenting and keeping all records so in 9 months we can say HERE, SEE!!!

I am sure there are good and decent border agents out there but the ones I dealt with were miserable, rude and on a power trip.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

I don't know why she said that to me either, but she did.

While visiting in Canada, I went to the states and back into Canada twice . Each time was a nightmare at the border.

The first time I was picked up by my Syr who was unaware I was being interrogated and wondering wtf happened to me after I got off the plane. This border agent woman was just as obnoxious as she could be. This is how it went:


*Do you have a home address in the states?*

*Yes* and I gave it to her

*Do you have mail, a bill anything to prove it is your address?*

*No, I wasn't aware I needed that, I have my drivers license* (she cuts me off)

*You need to prove you are not working illegally*

*How can I do that?*

*Do you have a plane ticket for the end of your stay?*

*no since I don't know when that will be*

*Do you have a bank statement showing you have enough money to support yourself?*

*No but I do have money in the bank*

(Cuts me off everytime)

*Do you have cash on you?*

*yes*

*I need to see it*

I pulled out my Canadian AND american money and laid it across the counter which she glanced at. Then:

*Is someone here to pick you up?*

*Yes*

*who is it*

*Bren*

*how long have you known Bren?*
*How long have you been here, how long were you in the states, where did you work, what is your profession, how long were you at your address in the states, on and on and on*.. i answered them all truthfully of course but sheesh! Then..

*How did you meet Bren?*

*where are you staying *

*Does Bren have a cell phone?*

*yes, why?*

*I need the number*

*gives her the number*

The woman goes somewhere else and calls my Syr, who did not hear her phone in the busy airport. They then PAGED her over the loudspeaker!

She comes back and says I have to wait until she comes to talk to her. Meanwhile I have to wait with all these folks who are from God knows where trying to get into Canada too. All of us feeling like we just robbed a bank. One girl had a dead battery on her phone and could not give the woman the number of the person there to pick her up.

Finally I get called to the counter and stamped with a 3 month stay. Since I had been here for 2 months she thought 3 more months was enough. Apparently they called my Syr into a room and asked her all the same question as me, how did we meet, how long have we known each other etc...
luckily we were both honest and our stories matched. After her hundredth question on how we know each other I do believe Syr informed her that yes she was fucking me and would like to have me back in for a longer stay.. (and a laugh) the officer became in a better mood and even gave me a smile as she slid my visitor record over to me.


I then applied for an extension and received it. SO thought it was safe to leave and come back in...WRONG. The border agent this time was a pure bitch and did not want to let me back in, EVEN with a visitor pass in my hand. She then went on to very abruptly explain that it's 180 days inside of a year, LIMIT.. that I was just about out of days and she would *let me slide* and stay for the remainder of the month. 14 days. I said *Ok, thats fine, how do people immigrate to Canada, I love it here and want to stay*

*hmmmpf ...Good luck finding anyone to let you in because you "Like it here" * .. sort of mocking me...and added *I ALMOST did not let you back in*

I then applied for another extension and while that was being processed I received my work permit. I couldn't even apply for that until my boss received her positive opinion from the government which she had been fighting for 6 months.(ANother nightmare) Once she had that I ran to the border and got my permit. THAT was a good day. I just went and came to the states with that in my hand with no problem.

I mean really! Just give me the facts and I can deal with that, the arrogance and accusation type tone is really unnecessary. All it does it make me nervous and feel like I am a criminal, when actually I just wanted to come for a visit! I've been here long enough to know I want to live here forever, so after my work visa I will be trying for citizen. I completely understand offering jobs to Canadians first, we did that, still they were not happy, they also told us we have to prove in a year that the business has had an increase due to the clients I will bring in.. seriously? what difference does it make to the government if my boss wants to keep me on for any reason whatsoever, but luckily there is an increase so we are documenting and keeping all records so in 9 months we can say HERE, SEE!!!

I am sure there are good and decent border agents out there but the ones I dealt with were miserable, rude and on a power trip.

Sounds like you are immigrating under the skilled worker class. I hear that is the most difficult way to do it. I'm sorry things are so hard for you . It sounds horrible. I was lucky in a way because Andrea supported me for the two years I wasn't allowed to work while waiting for permanent residency. It was still a very difficult time but it was pretty much a sure thing I would be allowed to immigrate doing it family class with Andrea sponsoring me. We just had to wait. And while waiting I couldn't work. It's a bit of pressure for a relationship. Anyway you look at it, immigrating is not for the feint of heart. It is stressful for any relationship. We are both more than glad it is over. All in all I waited three years to get citizenship. You have be living in Canada for three years to apply. Anyway best of luck to you. It's not easy. But I hope it at least gets easier for you.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Sounds like you are immigrating under the skilled worker class. I hear that is the most difficult way to do it. I'm sorry things are so hard for you . It sounds horrible. I was lucky in a way because Andrea supported me for the two years I wasn't allowed to work while waiting for permanent residency. It was still a very difficult time but it was pretty much a sure thing I would be allowed to immigrate doing it family class with Andrea sponsoring me. We just had to wait. And while waiting I couldn't work. It's a bit of pressure for a relationship. Anyway you look at it, immigrating is not for the feint of heart. It is stressful for any relationship. We are both more than glad it is over. All in all I waited three years to get citizenship. You have be living in Canada for three years to apply. Anyway best of luck to you. It's not easy. But I hope it at least gets easier for you.

Yes it will get easier I am sure, even the person at the Immigration and Cultural center was at a loss. She advised me to mail in my work permit package to Buffalo and wait for a response like everyone else does, my intuition did not trust that and I went to the border and got it. I took a chance, I could have been turned away and made to wait in the States until it came in. I did not have months to wait for a response telling me I needed more paperwork, I went and plead my case at the border and even that took some convincing. Meanwhile every college exchange student walked in and got one taking about 30 seconds to complete, I am in health care and want to help sickly people, and that did not persuade them one bit.


Yes I am a skilled worker on a temporary permit. This was supposed to be the easiest route, permanent permit being the hardest. They denied my boss's request to hire me twice, once because upon thier urging she posted an ad in the paper, they did not tell her it had to also be on the online website for immigration, and it was denied because of that. Each time starting over at square one. Each denial took 3 months to come back with a response, and yes not working during all that time was both heavenly and scary.

The positive opinion and the work permit are two separate fiascos. Other than working or marrying someone from Canada, not sure how you do it unless you are among the filthy rich.

Nope it's not for the timid, that's for sure.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

Other than working or marrying someone from Canada, not sure how you do it unless you are among the filthy rich.

Nope it's not for the timid, that's for sure.

In the hope of being helpful I just wanted to let you know that you don't have to be married to be sponsored by your partner for immigration. Canadian immigration allows for sponsorship of a partner; marriage is optional. We weren't married when Andrea sponsored me to come here. We got married after I got my Canadian citizenship. We got married in Vermont. In case things change in the states and it looks like Andrea might be eligible to get U.S. citizenship, we thought it might help.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

In the hope of being helpful I just wanted to let you know that you don't have to be married to be sponsored by your partner for immigration. Canadian immigration allows for sponsorship of a partner; marriage is optional. We weren't married when Andrea sponsored me to come here. We got married after I got my Canadian citizenship. We got married in Vermont. In case things change in the states and it looks like Andrea might be eligible to get U.S. citizenship, we thought it might help.

Thanks so much, but getting here for that reason would be impossible unless they legalize polygamy .. so work visa was the way to go and it was completely coincidental that I am able to work here with the modality I am trained in!

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

Thanks so much, but getting here for that reason would be impossible unless they legalize polygamy .. so work visa was the way to go and it was completely coincidental that I am able to work here with the modality I am trained in!

Ah gotcha. That does limit your options. I'm glad you were able to find a way to work in Canada. It's not easy to do I know. Andrea tried it in reverse and could find no work sponsor in the U.S. Here's hoping the day when this is all behind you will be soon.

[Aklboi]

my 19 year old wife to be lives in the Philippines. Her mother lives in Canada and her dad lives with my gf. They do not approve of her relationship with me. They are also forcing her to immigrate to Canada and to be forced to marry a guy she has never met. Can she immigrate to the US as a refugee? what can she and I do to get her to US?