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Old 01-21-2017, 06:40 AM   #19701
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Old 01-21-2017, 07:12 AM   #19702
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Ok Kobi.

This is not logical and is almost irrational to me.

I hope that it turns out the way that you believe that it will. Your position is one that I have not read or seen anywhere else in the feminist, humanist or radical feminist universe.

I fear for my own feminist sisters and brothers that will lose their healthcare; I fear for the time when conservatives are on the Supreme Court and abortion becomes even more restrictive or is no longer an option for women to chose; the profoundly incompetent cabinet appointees are in place; I fear for having a president that feels entitled to grab the genitals of any woman he chooses because he is rich, etc.

Feminist?

No, not my brand.

Maybe it is only your brand now.

We can agree to disagree on this.

You smiled because he was inaugurated?

Me? I cried.


We can agree to disagree. We have disagreed all along. Nothing new here.

As for feminism, a refresher course might be helpful.

One of the first thing Barak Obama did was sign the Leddy Ledbetter Act which gave women more time to file lawsuits against companies who engaged in unequal pay practices, lawsuits women rarely win because they just dont have the resources or clout against lawyer overloaded companies.

Instead of Ledbetter, Obama could have just had Loretta Lynch enforce the equal pay act. He choose not to do so. That is institutional misogyny in action.

Obama threatened to withhold federal educational dollars from all school systems if they did not allow transgendered students to have bathroom choices until title ix. The transgendered population compromises what....2% of the population?

Obama refused to use title ix to deal with the rape culture on college campuses. Women comprise more than 50% of the population. This is another example of institutional misogyny in action.

Hard to discuss feminism when women refuse to see, recognize or even know when misogyny is slapping them in their face.Even more detrimental when women support politicians, male or female, who have no qualms of victimizing them even more.

Actions speak louder than words.

Might want to brush up on feminism. Your examples seem to be confusing feminism with liberalism and progressive-ism. Not the same things. Feminism only focuses on the plight of women. The minute the focus is anything but women, it is no longer feminism.

But as I said before, many "feminists" are happy to put the plight of other disadvantaged groups over their own or are happy to support the causes of others when there is no reciprocity. Remember, it was Fredrick Douglass who (supposedly) fought for the end of slavery for blacks AND WOMEN alongside the likes of Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony. But when push came to shove, he was more than happy to turn his back on women so black MEN could have the right to vote while all women had to wait their turn - that turn came 50 years later.

Seriously, learn something about the history of women. Appreciate those women who fought for you to be seen as a human being rather than property of your father and husband, who fought for you to have the right to divorce and the right to child custody and child support, the right to have a bank account, to enter into contracts, to buy a home on your own merits.

Try stepping out of the convenience box and the canned rhetoric and see the multitude of ways women are still slapped in the face everyday. Listen to young women who think they have equality and who perceive their troubles as a personal failure rather than a systemic problem in a system stacked against them.

There is a lot more to feminism than you seem to be aware of or willing to deal with.
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Old 01-21-2017, 08:51 AM   #19703
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Kobi, you really think that I need you to educate me?

I think that you believe by your supporting Trump, it will work as some reverse psychology and because he is so horrific; women will flock to feminism.

It does not work that way in the real world.

Nothing that you say makes an iota of sense.

You made your ?point? and the other women and I that have posted here have made ours.

This is no golden flounce but I am not engaging with you again.

Your mind is closed, you have it all figured out for yourself and I know, having worked with my clients for so many years; when to quietly accept a person's belief system.

The delusion is just too stong.

Delusion= false, fixed belief.
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:17 AM   #19704
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Kobi, you really think that I need you to educate me?

I think that you believe by your supporting Trump, it will work as some reverse psychology and because he is so horrific; women will flock to feminism.

It does not work that way in the real world.

Nothing that you say makes an iota of sense.

You made your ?point? and the other women and I that have posted here have made ours.

This is no golden flounce but I am not engaging with you again.

Your mind is closed, you have it all figured out for yourself and I know, having worked with my clients for so many years; when to quietly accept a person's belief system.

The delusion is just too stong.

Delusion= false, fixed belief.

Enough of the same nonsense that I have had to listen to for the past year and a half. Same message over and over and over again.

Same bigotry, same intolerance of those who have different opinions, same hatred, same derogatory crap. Same approach, attack, then claim victim. Tiring.

Yes, I do think you need to be educated cuz you spew feelings devoid of actual fact or history. Feelings, fears, anxiety do not make for sound judgement or rationality or a knowledge of history or a knowledge of what has and continues to push women back into the dark ages. Nor does it define feminism.

Your opinion is just your opinion as is mine. Tolerance is about accepting that others dont think the same as you. It also doesnt mean that they are delusional. Low blow coming from someone who bills themselves as a psy nurse.

Sorry it bugs you that Trump is potus now. Life doesnt always give us what we want. That's where adult coping skills come in. We learn to deal.

Your golden flounce is duly noted. So are your insults. Bye bye.
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:29 AM   #19705
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Which is it? 10 years or 54 years?

The war against women is not something that just turned up one day. It's been something that we've been chipping at and tolling against since the dark ages and through the decades. There's been good progress made the last 8 years towards this. Where have you been?

Trump wants to drag us back there, probably by the hair on our heads. He even has Conan the Barbarian heading his old show.

......


To be somewhat thread compliant, there are no smiles here this morning but I did get a good chuckle at my coworker posting to her ex online last night. Used his own racist, sexist words against him. Way to go, girl.

Sorry to see that reading comprehension doesnt seem to be your forte.

Everything you said has been addressed. Read it again.

Women are still slaves to a patriarchial system and will continue to be so until they wake up and smell the coffee. What we have gotten are carefully dispensed crumbs to quell the masses which, in the end, serve the patriarchy and keep women oppressed. Simple concept which is manifested in very complex ways every single freakin day.

Enough of the nonsense.


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Old 01-21-2017, 09:31 AM   #19706
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Yes Kobi, opinions are opinions but never attempt to use an opinion as a fact. This is when folks get in trouble with misunderstandings and such.

Naturally, I disagree with 99% of your 'opinions', however the yuuuugest thing I am compelled to say is, why the hell did you feel the need to share your love for trump* and how we on the planet are doing it wrong yesterday?

You knew that many of us here were going to need to vent, to share what will surely be a long 4 years insofar as many of the gains for our community by PBO. Many of us were hurting, many of us are unsure of what the future may bring legislatively. Rightfully so Kobi.

I found what you did a really insensitive, boorish thing to do. In fact, I will go one step further and say what you are doing is borderline sadistic. You seem to enjoy bringing (what you knew would be pain) to so many here.

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Old 01-21-2017, 09:49 AM   #19707
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That I start a new job in 2 days.

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Old 01-21-2017, 10:44 AM   #19708
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[B]Yes Kobi, opinions are opinions but never attempt to use an opinion as a fact. This is when folks get in trouble with misunderstandings and such.

Naturally, I disagree with 99% of your 'opinions', however the yuuuugest thing I am compelled to say is, why the hell did you feel the need to share your love for trump* and how we on the planet are doing it wrong yesterday?

You knew that many of us here were going to need to vent, to share what will surely be a long 4 years insofar as many of the gains for our community by PBO. Many of us were hurting, many of us are unsure of what the future may bring legislatively. Rightfully so Kobi.

I found what you did a really insensitive, boorish thing to do. In fact, I will go one step further and say what you are doing is borderline sadistic. You seem to enjoy bringing (what you knew would be pain) to so many here.


Thank you Ace. I so appreciate your ability to conflate sane rational argument against the onslaught of fake news, fake facts, and bullying-Woman have been victimized for literally thousands of years- we do not need wolves in sheep clothing claiming they are actually doing us a favor by voting for those who seek to roll back our rights and oppress us further. I can only imagine extreme hatred of the fairer sex to be the underlying motivation to display such disdain and disregard for those of us who care about this country and the womankind in it. They need to be honest and own their true agenda.
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Old 01-21-2017, 10:46 AM   #19709
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Not only a feminist but a radical feminist who has watched liberal feminism, intersectional feminism, and other forms of so called feminism dilute and derail the very meaning and essence of feminism.

I prefer a Trump who is perfectly clear on his misogyny. It is much easier to deal with and fight against.

I loath the likes of Obama who talked a good game and stabbed women in the back repeatedly. If you dont know what Obama did or refused to do to help women, research it.

The war on women has been going on for 10 years now. Who was POTUS for 8 of those 10 years? Trump? Nope.

Where has the female outrage been for the last 10 years? In the last 10 years we have seen astronomical increases in domestic violence and women killed by their husbands and boyfriends. We have seen the highest rates of rape and sexual assault, the fewest cases being prosecuted, and are back to putting the victims on trial. Women are losing financially at epic proportions. Our reproductive rights have been striped bare.

Women are still complaining about not receiving equal pay for equal work. The equal pay act was passed in 1963 - 54 years ago. Never enforced but it is on the books. Are you outraged over this?

Young women today do not even know what the ERA is all about. Ask one. The most common answer is era is a laundry detergent.

Young women today THINK they have equality. That's pretty freakin sad.

Feminism is something you live 24/7 365 days a year. Not just when it is convenient. Not just when your preferred candidate loses. Not just for those aspects that speak to you as an individual.

Thus far, the candidacy and election of Trump has increased the number of women who think they are feminists or who are at least toying with real feminism. THAT is a wonderful thing. Statistics and human behavior tells us this new found feminism will be short lived but maybe, just maybe it will awaken a few cuz this country needs real 24/7 feminists who understand what they are up against in the scheme of things.


I am trying to understand how someone can call themselves a feminist and smile as Trump takes the office of President of the US. However, I just can't. If you are saying that women need to be beaten over the head with the Trump/Pence/Republican House and Senate club in order to realize that they are oppressed, I think that's just stupid. It's like saying I should lop off my arm because I haven't been paying proper attention to the cut on my baby finger. It's overkill and not likely to end up being helpful at all.

I agree with much of what you have said about what Obama could have/should have done when in office. I was saddened by many of the choices he made. But there is a humongous difference between sad and devastated. What Donald Trump, and more realistically, Mike Pence, not to mention a Republican Senate and House will be able to do to women will be nothing short of devastation. Considering Supreme Court appointments are for life and that Trump will likely have the opportunity to appoint a couple of Justices, should the Republicans succeed in overturning Roe vs. Wade, it will be a long hard road back.

But even if it wasn't so, even if women were not a primary target of the Republicans and this Administration, there are many other oppressed groups who are. Are you saying they don't matter? Or are you saying it's a good thing, a thing worthy of a big smile, because Trump who is perfectly clear on his racism, homophobia, and xenophobia is much easier to deal with and fight against? It doesn't make sense when you said it about Trump's anti women agenda and it doesn't make sense here. Is it also easier to fight against a blatant attack on the Climate? Outward hostility against disabled people? I just don't get your logic.

The blight of women everywhere is a major issue. Feminism is the single most important issue to me. My energy, my heart, belongs to women. However, I do consider myself a humanist and there are many issues which matter deeply to me. And I see a connection between all oppression. I imagine that considering you dissed intersectional feminism in your post, that you do not find a focus on where related systems of oppression and discrimination intersect to be important to a feminist agenda. It sounds like you think intersectional feminism is not feminism. To me, that kind of thinking leads to purism, like a feminist version of white supremacy. Feminist supremacy.

I don't understand your need to share the fact that you are smiling over Trump's inauguration with people who you know are very worried, and rightly so, about how much damage he will do over the next 4 years, and how it will affect many of them personally. You get that this is something a troll would do, right? And since I know you're not a troll, what could your reason possibly have been? What would make you do this, here at BFP of all places?
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:21 PM   #19710
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Fredrick Douglass who (supposedly) fought for the end of slavery for blacks AND WOMEN alongside the likes of Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony. But when push came to shove, he was more than happy to turn his back on women so black MEN could have the right to vote while all women had to wait their turn - that turn came 50 years later.
White, otherwise unoppressed, women got the vote. Women of color waited decades.

Feminism without considering intersectionality only focuses on problems which occur for white, straight, upper/middle class, binary conforming women.

Problems unique to lower class women, lesbians, women of color, non binary persons, etc., aren't addressed or even considered without a commitment to intersectionality and the distinct issues inherent there.

In order to at least give a nod to the topic of this thread, it makes me smile to see how important I think intersectionality is to feminism.
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:25 PM   #19711
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Kobi,

Not to offend you or even infuriate you,but where does the fact that; "...In the last 10 years we have seen astronomical increases in domestic violence and women killed by their husbands and boyfriends. We have seen the highest rates of rape and sexual assault, the fewest cases being prosecuted..." come from?

I'd simply like to know more about that statement and its source, specifically.
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:30 PM   #19712
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Well Kobi that is one of the most bizarre posts I have ever read. Yeah let's advance feminism by voting in a man who brags of sexual assault, goes into a teen beauty pageant to ogle naked teenage girls, is working to take away the Violence of Women's Act, repeal Roe v. Wade and really I could go on for days and days and days with more. Unreal.

SMH. Once again we seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

What you are reacting to is a deliberate distortion of what was said. And you are taking your own distortion as fact and running with it.

The media has taught you well.

Im sorry your candidate lost. She lost for a reason. The democratic party lost for a reason. You lost because you werent listening and still insist on not listening.

Feel free to spend the next 4 years spinning your wheels and immersed in anger and hatred.

Enough.
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:33 PM   #19713
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White, otherwise unoppressed, women got the vote. Women of color waited decades.

Feminism without considering intersectionality only focuses on problems which occur for white, straight, upper/middle class, binary conforming women.

Problems unique to lower class women, lesbians, women of color, non binary persons, etc., aren't addressed or even considered without a commitment to intersectionality and the distinct issues inherent there.

In order to at least give a nod to the topic of this thread, it makes me smile to see how important I think intersectionality is to feminism.

Wrong.

All women got the right to vote under the 19th amendment passed in 1920.

Black men got the right to vote under the 15th amendment passed in 1870.

Seriously folks, learn some history.
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:45 PM   #19714
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Kobi,

Not to offend you or even infuriate you,but where does the fact that; "...In the last 10 years we have seen astronomical increases in domestic violence and women killed by their husbands and boyfriends. We have seen the highest rates of rape and sexual assault, the fewest cases being prosecuted..." come from?

I'd simply like to know more about that statement and its source, specifically.

Google it. Educate yourself. Learn the reality. Knowledge is a wonderful thing.
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:55 PM   #19715
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
White, otherwise unoppressed, women got the vote. Women of color waited decades.

Feminism without considering intersectionality only focuses on problems which occur for white, straight, upper/middle class, binary conforming women.

Problems unique to lower class women, lesbians, women of color, non binary persons, etc., aren't addressed or even considered without a commitment to intersectionality and the distinct issues inherent there.

In order to at least give a nod to the topic of this thread, it makes me smile to see how important I think intersectionality is to feminism.
Ratified on August 18, 1920, the 19th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution granted American women the right to vote—a right known as woman suffrage. At the time the U.S. was founded, its female citizens did not share all of the same rights as men, including the right to vote.

19th Amendment - Women's History - HISTORY.com

The struggle for the vote did not end with the ratification of the Nineteenth Amendment. In some Southern states, African American women were unable to freely exercise their right to vote up until the 1960s.

African-American woman suffrage movement - Wikipedia

The Voting Rights Act, signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson (1908-73) on August 6, 1965, aimed to overcome legal barriers at the state and local levels that prevented African Americans from exercising their right to vote under the 15th Amendment (1870) to the Constitution of the United States.

Voting Rights Act - Black History - HISTORY.com
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"...I'm deeply concerned by recently adopted policies which punish children for their parents’ actions ... The thought that any State would seek to deter parents by inflicting such abuse on children is unconscionable."

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Old 01-21-2017, 01:57 PM   #19716
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Kobi,

Perhaps you believe that women need to hit rock bottom, that living under Trump will open our eyes, that this is the tonic that will start the cure and stop the political placebos dead in their tracks, and that "Whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger"

Well here's a bit I just read about that Nietzchean bumper sticker:

"...Nietzsche used a similar line in Ecce Homo (written 1888, published 1908), the last book he wrote before going completely insane. In the chapter entitled “Why I Am So Wise,” he wrote that a person who has “turned out well” could be recognized by certain attributes, such as a knack for exploiting bad accidents to his advantage. Regarding such a man, Nietzsche said: “What does not kill him makes him stronger.” (“Was ihn nicht umbringt, macht ihn stärker.”)

Today, English translations and variations of Nietzsche’s maxim are often used for ironic effect. But they are also frequently used in a positive way, to express optimism and determination in the face of adversity.

Many people might be surprised to learn that Nietzsche’s original German line was used as a motto for Hitler’s Nazi youth camps."

Charlene Dargay Apr 12, 2016

Problem is, "rock bottom" is littered by the bodies of the slaughtered, the defeated, those who would never rise again.
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:59 PM   #19717
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Another thing that made me smile was actually getting to do something my way, for a change.
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Old 01-21-2017, 02:02 PM   #19718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobi View Post

Google it. Educate yourself. Learn the reality. Knowledge is a wonderful thing.
I did google it.... it isn't on ANY site I could find including the BJS. Perhaps you could give me a hint where you found it.
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Old 01-21-2017, 02:16 PM   #19719
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I smiled all through the women's rally today...tomorrow I may be in bed, but today I smiled.
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Old 01-21-2017, 02:17 PM   #19720
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I'm beginning to understand why you smiled at Trump's inauguration: like Trump you belong to the "insult and dismiss" school of discourse and when you are caught spouting bullshit, you become even more insulting and dismissive.

Well ok. So here's some "ad hominem" in return: Stick to watching baby eagles. They don't talk back.
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