Butch Pronouns - A Questionaire

Nat · 05-16-2010, 08:58 PM

I have spent much of yesterday and today reading and re-reading the "Men with boobs" thread, and the use of default butch pronouns is one of many themes involved in that discussion.

I'm going to attach a poll, but there is not a poll that can cover every person's experience, thoughts, etc. So, in addition to the poll, I'm going to put a more inclusive questionaire below.

What I would like to do is ask anybody who participates in this thread to first fill out and post the questionaire - before addressing another person's answers to the questionaire.

If a question definitely does not apply to you, please write "N/A"

The Butch Pronoun Questionaire

1. How do you identify?

2a. What is your preferred pronoun (when referencing yourself)?

2b. Do you feel like your preferred pronoun fits you perfectly?

2c. Did you have another or other preferred pronouns in the past?

3a. Does your preferred pronoun vary depending on setting?

3b. If so, can you please explain why and how?

4. How important is it to you that people use your preferred pronoun?

5a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "he," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?

5b. How do/would you react?

6a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "she," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?

6b. How do/would you react?

7a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "hy," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?

7b. How do/would you react?

8a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "zie," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?

8b. How do/would you react?

9a. When speaking of a specific butch, do you strive to ensure you are using that person's preferred pronoun?

9b. If not, why not?

9c. If not, what do you see as the possible effects for that butch and others in the community?

10a. Do you associate different traits with different butch pronouns?

10b. Do you feel that different pronouns clue you in about how a butch may look, think, feel, dress, act, talk, walk, fuck, bond?

10c. Do you associate different ideologies, alliances or belief systems with different butch pronouns?

11a. If you are referring to a butch, and you have not had the opportunity to find out what that person's preferred pronoun is, do you use a default pronoun?

11b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why?

11c. If not, what do you do instead?

11d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why?

12a. If you are referring to a hypothetical butch, do you use a default pronoun?

12b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why?

12c. If not, what do you do instead?

12d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why?

13a. Do you tend to partner with butches who use a certain pronoun more often than others?

13b. If so, what pronoun?

13c. If so, can you share your thoughts about why this may be?

14a. Are there times when you have been corrected for using an incorrect pronoun for a butch?

14b. If so, how did you feel about it and how did it influence you?

15. Do you have any other thoughts regarding the use of butch pronouns?

16. If you could add a question to this questionaire, what would it be?

DapperButch · 05-16-2010, 09:18 PM

Hot diggity, I was going to do a poll asking butches who don't use the pronoun bar why that is (I am SO curious on that one), but this is great!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat

I have spent much of yesterday and today reading and re-reading the "Men with boobs" thread, and the use of default butch pronouns is one of many themes involved in that discussion.

I'm going to attach a poll, but there is not a poll that can cover every person's experience, thoughts, etc. So, in addition to the poll, I'm going to put a more inclusive questionaire below.

What I would like to do is ask anybody who participates in this thread to first fill out and post the questionaire - before addressing another person's answers to the questionaire.

If a question definitely does not apply to you, please write "N/A"

The Butch Pronoun Questionaire

1. How do you identify? TG Stone Butch

2a. What is your preferred pronoun (when referencing yourself)? Hy

2b. Do you feel like your preferred pronoun fits you perfectly? It is the closest thing I can find between she and he. I used to be annoyed by the spelling but since the other two don't fit, I accept having to use this one

2c. Did you have another or other preferred pronouns in the past? Preferred, no. I didn't consider I had any other choice as a child but she. As an adult I realized I had a choice.

3a. Does your preferred pronoun vary depending on setting? Preferred pronoun does not change. Does my pronoun change? Yes, at work and with my family. If I transitioned to male, then of course my pronoun would be he in all places.

3b. If so, can you please explain why and how? See above.

4. How important is it to you that people use your preferred pronoun? Not extremely. If someone calls me she it may feel weird (including at work), but it is fine. Some people don't know (work) and some may make mistakes (here).

5a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "he," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? I am fine with he

5b. How do/would you react? No comment to the person.

6a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "she," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? For some reason she feels weirder than he. Perhaps because of the sound of the word, or perhaps because I am a little closer to he than she.

6b. How do/would you react? On the Planet, if I knew the person I would PM them to tell them what I prefer because they would understand it. It would be important to me that they know that I am not upset that they called me by the pronoun that is not the best fit for me.

7a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "hy," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? N/A

7b. How do/would you react? I would think, cool!, they read the pronoun bar/have listened in threads to what I prefer.

8a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "zie," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? No feeling about it. I would be glad that they were thinking well enough to take the PC way out instead of using he/she/hy if they didn't know what I preferred.

8b. How do/would you react? No reaction.

9a. When speaking of a specific butch, do you strive to ensure you are using that person's preferred pronoun? Absolutely and without question.

9b. If not, why not? N/A

9c. If not, what do you see as the possible effects for that butch and others in the community? N/A

10a. Do you associate different traits with different butch pronouns? No.

10b. Do you feel that different pronouns clue you in about how a butch may look, think, feel, dress, act, talk, walk, fuck, bond? Of course not.

10c. Do you associate different ideologies, alliances or belief systems with different butch pronouns? No, I don't think so.

11a. If you are referring to a butch, and you have not had the opportunity to find out what that person's preferred pronoun is, do you use a default pronoun? I always write she/he/hy (actually, if my guess is they use he then I put he first in the sequence, and vis versa). If possible I use a name, but sometimes it just makes the sentence so awkward.

11b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why? N/A

11c. If not, what do you do instead? N/A

11d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why? No. I advocate people using the pronoun bar or not getting upset if someone uses a nonpreferred pronoun for them if they choose to not use the bar (or indicate somewhere in their avatar a preference for pronoun - like I would most likely assume a self described "butch lesbian" would want to be called she))

12a. If you are referring to a hypothetical butch, do you use a default pronoun? I often say he/she in regular conversation when I do not know.

12b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why? See above.

12c. If not, what do you do instead? N/A

12d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why? No opinion.

13a. Do you tend to partner with butches who use a certain pronoun more often than others? I date only femmes.

13b. If so, what pronoun? N/A

13c. If so, can you share your thoughts about why this may be? N/A

14a. Are there times when you have been corrected for using an incorrect pronoun for a butch? No.

14b. If so, how did you feel about it and how did it influence you? N/A

15. Do you have any other thoughts regarding the use of butch pronouns? No.

16. If you could add a question to this questionaire, what would it be?

For the butch who doesn't use the pronoun bar, why?

Nat · 05-16-2010, 11:44 PM

1. How do you identify?

I identify as a bigender femme lesbian

2a. What is your preferred pronoun (when referencing yourself)?

she - but it's a very mild preference

2b. Do you feel like your preferred pronoun fits you perfectly?

no

2c. Did you have another or other preferred pronouns in the past?

no, except maybe a total non-preference. I've thought about what it would feel like to have others. If there were a common gender-neutral pronoun, I would perhaps one day prefer it when it felt less awkward

3a. Does your preferred pronoun vary depending on setting?

nope

3b. If so, can you please explain why and how?

n/a

4. How important is it to you that people use your preferred pronoun?

not terribly important. it would be more an issue of confusion to me than anything else if somebody referred to me as something other than "she"

5a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "he," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?

I think it would depend on the context, and I think I would possibly wonder about the motivation. If it was an attempt to honor my gender experience, I'd think it was neat. If it was an attempt to dismiss me as a woman or as a femme, I would possibly be upset.

5b. How do/would you react?

I don't know if I would.

6a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "she," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?

N/A

6b. How do/would you react?

N/A

7a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "hy," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?

Same as I would for "he"

7b. How do/would you react?

I don't know

8a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "zie," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?

possibly good, if I could figure out I was the person being referred to

8b. How do/would you react?

I probably wouldn't

9a. When speaking of a specific butch, do you strive to ensure you are using that person's preferred pronoun?

Yes

9b. If not, why not?

Though I currently answer yes, there were times in the past when I did use different defaults.

When I used "she" it was when I was new to the community and I thought "she" was the only option.

When I used "he" it was because the self-identified butches I knew indicated that they preferred it and also that they felt misrepresented and upset about being called "she"

When I used "hy" it was because a few people presented it to me as the "compromise" between "he" and "she" and as a "butch pronoun."

Then there was a time that I just tried to switch it up each time I posted something. In most of these cases, I was talking in the hypothetical - not about a specific butch with a known pronoun. Also I think it's been about 3 years since I've done this regarding a known butch unless it was total accident.

9c. If not, what do you see as the possible effects for that butch and others in the community?

I don't think I have a clear picture of all the possible ramifications, but I think it is erasing and offensive to most people to have the wrong pronoun applied to them, and it's also erasing and offensive to those who would share that ID, to their partners and allies. Depending on which pronoun it is, it also may create a cultural myth that there are more people who use that pronoun than there actually are. It may create false expectations and increase pressure to conform to a pronoun or gender representation that does not fit. It may also have ramifications outside of the community, as it may perpetuate or play into stereotypes within the straight or greater LGBTQ community.

10a. Do you associate different traits with different butch pronouns?

no.

10b. Do you feel that different pronouns clue you in about how a butch may look, think, feel, dress, act, talk, walk, fuck, bond?

no. I think there was a time when I thought maybe there were differences discernable from the outside, but my own *ahem* research has shown no correlation at all whatsoever between pronoun and any of these things.

10c. Do you associate different ideologies, alliances or belief systems with different butch pronouns?

I do tend to imagine butches who use "she" as their pronoun are more likely to be pro-woman and I feel a greater sense of comfort and comradery in discussing issues affecting women with those who are more comfortable with the "she" pronoun. This is probably fucked up of me and worth exploring further.

11a. If you are referring to a butch, and you have not had the opportunity to find out what that person's preferred pronoun is, do you use a default pronoun?

I have found myself not referring to butches in the third person very much these days, but I do tend to use a default pronoun on occasion and in absence of real data

11b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why?

"she" in the absence of real knowledge or opportunity to ask

11c. If not, what do you do instead?

I do find myself just trying to avoid butch pronouns altogether more often these days. Sometimes I have written "s/he" or "she/he/hy/zie."

11d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why?

I am trending toward "she" in this regard because my current understanding is that there are more butches that prefer "she" and also because I am understanding more clearly that the dash site's culture (in which my queerness was birthed) tended toward "he" even though butches who used "he" were not in the majority there either. I would say that the standard should be NO DEFAULT EVER but there are times that you don't know and you can't ask.

12a. If you are referring to a hypothetical butch, do you use a default pronoun?

I think my answers to 12 are going to be the same as 11.

12b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why?

12c. If not, what do you do instead?

12d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why?

13a. Do you tend to partner with butches who use a certain pronoun more often than others?

"Partner with" would be stretching it - I have only "partnered with" one butch and he went by "he." My current relationship is not with a person who is butch-identified.

However, if I look at the flings and encounters I had earlier in my out life (when I'm afraid I was a bit like a kid in a candy shop), of the self-identified butches and a few self-identified "bois", I think the number was pretty even between "she" and "he" - with one "hy."

13b. If so, what pronoun?

N/A

13c. If so, can you share your thoughts about why this may be?

pronouns have not been high on my list of reasons to date a person

14a. Are there times when you have been corrected for using an incorrect pronoun for a butch?

yes. I remember the first time was Juney and she said something like, "not every butch is a "he"" when I used the term "he" regarding a hypothetical situation with a butch.

I think Toughy said something to me before too, but I can't remember if she was directly correcting me or if she was correcting somebody else and I stuck my nose into it.

And Medusa long ago said something about my use of the term "boi" - I think.

And Metro long ago was very patient with me and helped me to better understand how cavalier I was being regarding this stuff.

There have probably been more times - these are just the ones that spring to mind. I think it has taken a long time for me to get to the point where I feel capable of handling the complexity that exists. For me, it's very complex for my brain to work out. For a long time I was just looking for the "right" pronoun - the one that would keep me from offending the least people or getting jumped on.

14b. If so, how did you feel about it and how did it influence you?

I have felt very appreciative toward the people who were kind to me or whom I observed being kind to others when correcting an incorrect pronoun. I have felt like those who treated me or others in a hostile way regarding pronoun use have contributed to a hostile environment and contributed to my own feelings of alienation. But I think everybody who has sought to correct me or others has influenced me in the long run to try to do better.

15. Do you have any other thoughts regarding the use of butch pronouns?

not really

16. If you could add a question to this questionaire, what would it be?

I've got nothing, but it's late.

Kobi · 05-16-2010, 11:58 PM

I usually try and stay out of these discussions cuz they get too complicated and convoluted for my simplistic view of the world. But, I'm having one of those days.....so......

I am a female and a woman who happens to be a lesbian. I expect to be called by female pronouns because I am a female and proud of it.

I am frequently mistaken for a male on the phone and occasionally in person. It annoys me when this happens and it irks me to have to correct people....which I will do everytime.

If I am unsure of someones preference I will refrain from using any pronoun until I can ask them about it.

Even tho I will defend anyones right to be called by any pronoun they prefer, it irks me to have to jump thru these hoops. In my everyday life spanning over 35 years of being out, I have never had to deal with pronoun issues or "gender" issues. Both, for me, is like dealing with foreign concepts which are ever evolving and expanding in more and more directions to some unknown end.

I am reluctant to use the term butch these days. Butch used to be a noun with a specific connotation. Now butch is an adjective used with other adjectives to create a unique identity within any number of growing subcultures within the larger community. The pride I used to feel in the term is as watered down as the term itself.

I do not believe pronouns are a reliable indicator of any type of preferences i.e question 10 et al.

I dont know that "standardizing" is feasible.

If I could add a question it would be....the gay male community doesnt struggle with pronoun issues, femmes dont struggle with pronoun issues, what makes this an issue specific to butches?

Bad_boi · 05-17-2010, 03:43 AM

1. How do you identify?
Butch

2a. What is your preferred pronoun (when referencing yourself)?
Hy

2b. Do you feel like your preferred pronoun fits you perfectly?
yeah

2c. Did you have another or other preferred pronouns in the past?
Not really.

3a. Does your preferred pronoun vary depending on setting?
I am not picky but just prefer hy.

3b. If so, can you please explain why and how?

4. How important is it to you that people use your preferred pronoun?
It makes me happy but I am not picky.

5a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "he," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?
Kind of amused actually.

5b. How do/would you react?
If it was someone I would be around a lot I might politely let them know I am a female.

If I would never see them again I would ignore it so they would not be embarrased.

6a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "she," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?
Not any different since I'm used to it.

6b. How do/would you react?
Like normal.

7a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "hy," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?

7b. How do/would you react?
I might crack a smile.

8a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "zie," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?
Indifferent.

8b. How do/would you react?
Like normal.

9a. When speaking of a specific butch, do you strive to ensure you are using that person's preferred pronoun?
I ask.

9b. If not, why not?

9c. If not, what do you see as the possible effects for that butch and others in the community?

10a. Do you associate different traits with different butch pronouns?
No

10b. Do you feel that different pronouns clue you in about how a butch may look, think, feel, dress, act, talk, walk, fuck, bond?
They can but it is not a sure thing since everyone is different and outside the box.

10c. Do you associate different ideologies, alliances or belief systems with different butch pronouns?
no

11a. If you are referring to a butch, and you have not had the opportunity to find out what that person's preferred pronoun is, do you use a default pronoun?
Depends upon the situation.

11b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why?

11c. If not, what do you do instead?
Most butches in my area are ok with she, if I am not sure I ask.

11d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why?
No. Because everyone is different and no one should be put into a box.

12a. If you are referring to a hypothetical butch, do you use a default pronoun?
mmhm.

12b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why?
Hy because I like it for myself so I assume others would as well.

12c. If not, what do you do instead?

12d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why?
No. Standards are just plain silly.

13a. Do you tend to partner with butches who use a certain pronoun more often than others?
Not really.

13b. If so, what pronoun?

13c. If so, can you share your thoughts about why this may be?

14a. Are there times when you have been corrected for using an incorrect pronoun for a butch?
Nope

14b. If so, how did you feel about it and how did it influence you?

15. Do you have any other thoughts regarding the use of butch pronouns?

16. If you could add a question to this questionaire, what would it be?
What is better- Chocolate chip or Oreo?

Linus · 05-17-2010, 04:56 AM

I'll make it relatively simple (sorry.. the questionnaire made my head spin this morning). I look at their profile or see how they reference themselves (go back through posts). Whatever their choices is, I'm happy with. Few people get my pronoun wrong unless it's deliberately done. Neutral or masculine wouldn't bother me but feminine still rubs me not so right.

Apocalipstic · 05-17-2010, 03:58 PM

Thank you Nat!

I try to use the pronoun people prefer. if I don't know, I try to ask.

I HATE it when people automatically use "He" or "Hy" for every Butch without asking. I try to be understamding and remind them "she" if indeed the person uses "she" as their prefered pronoun, but often, it makes no difference.

I used to avoid people who did this even after being reminded several times, I am trying to soften on it and continue to remind them....but it sure gets old.

Softly · 05-17-2010, 04:17 PM

I dislike it as well. I have really only run into this issue on the interwebz. I once chatted with someone who kept calling my partner hy and when I corrected this person they said "well, hy is your Daddy, right"?

yeah, AND that makes my partner a HY???

I'm too impatient to deal with people like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I HATE it when people automatically use "He" or "Hy" for every Butch without asking. I try to be understamding and remind them "she" if indeed the person uses "she" as their prefered pronoun, but often, it makes no difference.

I used to avoid people who did this even after being reminded several times, I am trying to soften on it and continue to remind them....but it sure gets old.

DamonK · 05-17-2010, 04:35 PM

Interesting...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat

I have spent much of yesterday and today reading and re-reading the "Men with boobs" thread, and the use of default butch pronouns is one of many themes involved in that discussion.

I'm going to attach a poll, but there is not a poll that can cover every person's experience, thoughts, etc. So, in addition to the poll, I'm going to put a more inclusive questionaire below.

What I would like to do is ask anybody who participates in this thread to first fill out and post the questionaire - before addressing another person's answers to the questionaire.

If a question definitely does not apply to you, please write "N/A"

The Butch Pronoun Questionaire

1. How do you identify? TG male

2a. What is your preferred pronoun (when referencing yourself)? He

2b. Do you feel like your preferred pronoun fits you perfectly? Yes

2c. Did you have another or other preferred pronouns in the past? Hy

3a. Does your preferred pronoun vary depending on setting? Yes

3b. If so, can you please explain why and how? I work for a Catholic hospital. Their insurance doesn't cover birth control as far as my understanding. Therefore, in order to remain safe, I will use female pronouns there. Currently, I'm not out to my family as TG, I use female pronouns there.

4. How important is it to you that people use your preferred pronoun? When I hear "she" or "ladies" in reference to me, I cringe. I really hate it. So, if I'm in the situation where my preferred pronoun can be used, use it. Otherwise, I will be quite unhappy.

5a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "he," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?
N/A

5b. How do/would you react?

6a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "she," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? With the exception of work and family, I feel disrespected, especially if I've met that person more than once and know they KNOW what pronoun to use.

6b. How do/would you react? I politely correct them.

7a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "hy," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? N/A

7b. How do/would you react?

8a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "zie," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? N/A

8b. How do/would you react?

9a. When speaking of a specific butch, do you strive to ensure you are using that person's preferred pronoun? Yes

9b. If not, why not?

9c. If not, what do you see as the possible effects for that butch and others in the community?

10a. Do you associate different traits with different butch pronouns? No

10b. Do you feel that different pronouns clue you in about how a butch may look, think, feel, dress, act, talk, walk, fuck, bond? No

10c. Do you associate different ideologies, alliances or belief systems with different butch pronouns? No

11a. If you are referring to a butch, and you have not had the opportunity to find out what that person's preferred pronoun is, do you use a default pronoun? I don't use pronouns if I can avoid it.

11b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why?

11c. If not, what do you do instead? I try to not use a pronoun, then ask.

11d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why? No

12a. If you are referring to a hypothetical butch, do you use a default pronoun? No

12b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why? It's hypothetical. I'm not going to use a pronoun.

12c. If not, what do you do instead? Avoid pronouns.

12d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why? No

13a. Do you tend to partner with butches who use a certain pronoun more often than others? No

13b. If so, what pronoun?

13c. If so, can you share your thoughts about why this may be?

14a. Are there times when you have been corrected for using an incorrect pronoun for a butch? Yes

14b. If so, how did you feel about it and how did it influence you? I felt fine. It educated me to that person's wishes.

15. Do you have any other thoughts regarding the use of butch pronouns? No

16. If you could add a question to this questionaire, what would it be? N/A

SassyLeo · 05-17-2010, 05:53 PM

I almost ALWAYS ask... what is your preferred pronoun? Or if speaking about someone not present, I might ask someone else involved in the conversation... "how does that person identify?"

Ms. Tabitha · 05-17-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

I almost ALWAYS ask... what is your preferred pronoun? Or if speaking about someone not present, I might ask someone else involved in the conversation... "how does that person identify?"

Exactly.
If Im unable to ask, I call them by their name.

Bard · 05-19-2010, 08:39 AM

Ok I use hy most of the time I am stone butch and it just fits but I try to not be offended if called something other.it doen't have to define me I know who I am and and am pretty happy just being that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat

I have spent much of yesterday and today reading and re-reading the "Men with boobs" thread, and the use of default butch pronouns is one of many themes involved in that discussion.

I'm going to attach a poll, but there is not a poll that can cover every person's experience, thoughts, etc. So, in addition to the poll, I'm going to put a more inclusive questionaire below.

What I would like to do is ask anybody who participates in this thread to first fill out and post the questionaire - before addressing another person's answers to the questionaire.

If a question definitely does not apply to you, please write "N/A"

The Butch Pronoun Questionaire

1. How do you identify? Stone Butch

2a. What is your preferred pronoun (when referencing yourself)? Hy

2b. Do you feel like your preferred pronoun fits you perfectly? in some ways I am a female id butch but the male side is much stronger

2c. Did you have another or other preferred pronouns in the past? nope

3a. Does your preferred pronoun vary depending on setting? NA

3b. If so, can you please explain why and how?

4. How important is it to you that people use your preferred pronoun? it really is not

5a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "he," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? it does not really bother me they most likely don't know me

5b. How do/would you react? I don't

6a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "she," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? see above

6b. How do/would you react?

7a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "hy," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel?

7b. How do/would you react?

8a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "zie," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? OK this i think would bug me

8b. How do/would you react? would ask what the heck and correct them

9a. When speaking of a specific butch, do you strive to ensure you are using that person's preferred pronoun? it is the proper thing to do

9b. If not, why not?

9c. If not, what do you see as the possible effects for that butch and others in the community?

10a. Do you associate different traits with different butch pronouns? yeah can not explain but yes

10b. Do you feel that different pronouns clue you in about how a butch may look, think, feel, dress, act, talk, walk, fuck, bond? it can but I don't want to judge

10c. Do you associate different ideologies, alliances or belief systems with different butch pronouns?no

11a. If you are referring to a butch, and you have not had the opportunity to find out what that person's preferred pronoun is, do you use a default pronoun? I try not to I don't wish to accidently offend

11b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why?

11c. If not, what do you do instead?

11d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why?

12a. If you are referring to a hypothetical butch, do you use a default pronoun?

12b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why?

12c. If not, what do you do instead?

12d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why?

13a. Do you tend to partner with butches who use a certain pronoun more often than others?

13b. If so, what pronoun?

13c. If so, can you share your thoughts about why this may be?

14a. Are there times when you have been corrected for using an incorrect pronoun for a butch?

14b. If so, how did you feel about it and how did it influence you?

15. Do you have any other thoughts regarding the use of butch pronouns?

16. If you could add a question to this questionaire, what would it be?

Rockinonahigh · 05-19-2010, 10:54 AM

When on the phone and in public I get called sir all the time ,in public its sir then ooohhh errrr excuse me mam....my reply is, whatever.Acualy I get tired of correcting ppl,I know who I am and dont need validation of my chosen gender expresion.I never have had a prob with how anyone else deals with being called sir or mam cause I respect there choices and roll with it.

Andrew, Jr. · 05-19-2010, 11:01 AM

I go with Rockin on this. I prefer he, him, his. I male id. I am middle aged, and at this point in my life I am not going to make a mountain out of an ant hill imho. In life you choose the battles that are significant to you, not a group or crowd but you. And that is where I am at in my life right now.

scootebaby · 05-19-2010, 11:01 AM

i am butch,and i try not to default ever...i'll use screenname usually unless feeling very energetic then i will check profile b4 responding....however it gets confusing as i saw posted somewhere(maybe in another thread) how people id one way online and another in real life. i mean i understand the whole sometimes u have to bc of job or family or whatever,but those aside my g/f calls me she in real time she also calls me she online...dunno seems strange to me! if you are comfortable with who you really are shouldnt one pronoun be enough? work,family and HAVE to cases aside of course

Rockinonahigh · 05-19-2010, 11:33 AM

Hi Andrew..hope u r haveing a good day.Yes,I pick the battles that are winnable,some folks u cant change there minds or actions so I feel its there problem in life cause I have way to many things to do that are atainable and fun.Once there was a time I was not this way and figured I needed to be herd and let ppl know how I felt.then I lerned u cant fix stupid.Now in this day and age I dont really give a s**t,the folks in my life that matter is what counts.

JustBeingMe · 05-19-2010, 12:25 PM

I generally have used the person's screen name and that's either in real life because i dind't know their chosen name or real name they used, and online.
I identify as a Lesbian Butch Female ID,
I prefer that I am referred to as She but I don't get bent out of shape and make it an issue when someone uses an incorrect pronoun.
However, when I have supposedly used an incorrect pronoun because I speak correct English, I have been chastised and brow beat to death over the issue.
That's why I choose to use either their real name they use if I know it, or their screen name, in order to keep the peace so to speak.
I have some really good friends that are male ID'd but if I mispeak to them and say she instead of he, they don't make it an issue either. It's just not that important to them. They choose their battles, and pronouns is NOT one of them.

On the dash site, I did find in chat or threads, that the majority of butches were referred to as He or Hy, instead of what the actual majority is which is She on that site. I found quite a bit of in fighting with male ID'd butches over the issue of visibility for female/woman ID"d butches in the threads on that site as well. which I personally, from my ME space, find it repulsive to infight over such issues. I got sick of it. I no longer engage in such discussions anymore because you end up and and the thread is....

And that's just my ....

Nat · 09-10-2013, 11:31 PM

Was going back through some older threads today and thought the survey results for this turned out interestingly.

So the largest portion of each identity chose the option that y'all/we try never to use default pronouns for butches.

Then it gets interesting. Femmes split down the middle between "he" and "she", but if you add in the 5 femmes who use "hy," that means the majority of femmes who use a default pronoun are phonetically defaulting to what sounds like "he."

More interestingly - to me - because I feel like femmes bear the brunt of the pronoun burden at times - butches by far default to "he" or "hy" compared with "she" when using a default pronoun for butches.

And the trend continues amongst trans folks - only one stating they default to "she" for butches.

I personally continue to be frustrated with my own brain - often calling some butches "she" when I know they are "hy" or "he" and then calling other butches "he" when I know they are she. I don't tend to accidentally "hy" people these days. I do try, but I definitely appreciate butches who are easy-going about their pronouns. ha.

DapperButch · 09-11-2013, 05:54 AM

I continue to wonder why so many butches do not use the pronoun preferred slot under their name. Then this issue of people being insulted when someone uses the wrong pronoun for them could be avoided.

The reality (whether we want to see it or not), is that people have defaults, based on their experiences with butches (online and offline). I find it hard to believe that most people are purposely calling others by the wrong pronoun due to their own agenda as to what pronoun they believe should be the default pronoun for a butch.

I think it is unfair for someone to be upset if the wrong pronoun is used for them if they do not tell the member what to call them by using the preferred pronoun slot. It is not fair to expect that everyone will remember what pronoun you/someone else used to refer to you in a post long ago (that most likely, the person never even read).

Too, even if you use the preferred pronoun slot, give people a break who make a mistake. There are people who have not been online for many years and do not know that there is a possibility that people prefer one pronoun over the other (I would suggest that offline b/f communities, especially those who do not frequent b/f forums, use one or the other almost exclusively).

I think that until we know otherwise, lets give people the benefit of the doubt (especially if you do not use the preferred pronoun slot). I know I appreciate it when someone uses it.

With all of that said, I have heard butches say that there are times that people know their preferred pronoun, yet insist on calling them by the speaker's preferred pronoun for butches. I see this as unexcusable. Like most things in life, it is all about intent.

One last thing, when talking about the above, I am obviously referring to times when one does not have the opportunity to ask the person's preferred pronoun before using a pronoun for the person (assuming the person has not used the pronoun slot).

Parker · 09-11-2013, 06:37 AM

Bouncing off of Dapper's thoughts: and if the butch has a preferred pronoun on their profile, but the wrong pronoun is accidentally used, it is not meant as an insult when that butch corrects the person speaking to them.

View Poll Results: Please choose the option that fits you best.
I am a femme and I try to never use default pronouns for butches.	33	20.50%
I am a femme, and I sometimes use "he" as a default pronoun for butches.	18	11.18%
I am a femme, and I sometimes use "she" as a default pronoun for butches.	19	11.80%
I am a femme, I sometimes use "hy" as a default pronoun for butches.	7	4.35%
I am a butch and I try to never use default pronouns for butches.	27	16.77%
I am a butch, and I sometimes use "he" as a default pronoun for butches.	17	10.56%
I am a butch, and I sometimes use "she" as a default pronoun for butches.	11	6.83%
I am a butch, I sometimes use "hy" as a default pronoun for butches.	8	4.97%
I am trans and I try to never use default pronouns for butches.	14	8.70%
I am trans, and I sometimes use "he" as a default pronoun for butches.	8	4.97%
I am trans, and I sometimes use "she" as a default pronoun for butches.	1	0.62%
I am trans, I sometimes use "hy" as a default pronoun for butches.	5	3.11%
See my answer below	11	6.83%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 161. You may not vote on this poll

05-16-2010, 08:58 PM	#1
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender Preferred Pronoun?: whatevs Relationship Status: in a relationship Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tx Posts: 3,535 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,042 Thanked 13,993 Times in 2,596 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	Butch Pronouns - A Questionaire I have spent much of yesterday and today reading and re-reading the "Men with boobs" thread, and the use of default butch pronouns is one of many themes involved in that discussion. I'm going to attach a poll, but there is not a poll that can cover every person's experience, thoughts, etc. So, in addition to the poll, I'm going to put a more inclusive questionaire below. What I would like to do is ask anybody who participates in this thread to first fill out and post the questionaire - before addressing another person's answers to the questionaire. If a question definitely does not apply to you, please write "N/A" The Butch Pronoun Questionaire 1. How do you identify? 2a. What is your preferred pronoun (when referencing yourself)? 2b. Do you feel like your preferred pronoun fits you perfectly? 2c. Did you have another or other preferred pronouns in the past? 3a. Does your preferred pronoun vary depending on setting? 3b. If so, can you please explain why and how? 4. How important is it to you that people use your preferred pronoun? 5a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "he," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? 5b. How do/would you react? 6a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "she," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? 6b. How do/would you react? 7a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "hy," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? 7b. How do/would you react? 8a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "zie," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? 8b. How do/would you react? 9a. When speaking of a specific butch, do you strive to ensure you are using that person's preferred pronoun? 9b. If not, why not? 9c. If not, what do you see as the possible effects for that butch and others in the community? 10a. Do you associate different traits with different butch pronouns? 10b. Do you feel that different pronouns clue you in about how a butch may look, think, feel, dress, act, talk, walk, fuck, bond? 10c. Do you associate different ideologies, alliances or belief systems with different butch pronouns? 11a. If you are referring to a butch, and you have not had the opportunity to find out what that person's preferred pronoun is, do you use a default pronoun? 11b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why? 11c. If not, what do you do instead? 11d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why? 12a. If you are referring to a hypothetical butch, do you use a default pronoun? 12b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why? 12c. If not, what do you do instead? 12d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why? 13a. Do you tend to partner with butches who use a certain pronoun more often than others? 13b. If so, what pronoun? 13c. If so, can you share your thoughts about why this may be? 14a. Are there times when you have been corrected for using an incorrect pronoun for a butch? 14b. If so, how did you feel about it and how did it influence you? 15. Do you have any other thoughts regarding the use of butch pronouns? 16. If you could add a question to this questionaire, what would it be? __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

05-16-2010, 11:44 PM	#3
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender Preferred Pronoun?: whatevs Relationship Status: in a relationship Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tx Posts: 3,535 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,042 Thanked 13,993 Times in 2,596 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	1. How do you identify? I identify as a bigender femme lesbian 2a. What is your preferred pronoun (when referencing yourself)? she - but it's a very mild preference 2b. Do you feel like your preferred pronoun fits you perfectly? no 2c. Did you have another or other preferred pronouns in the past? no, except maybe a total non-preference. I've thought about what it would feel like to have others. If there were a common gender-neutral pronoun, I would perhaps one day prefer it when it felt less awkward 3a. Does your preferred pronoun vary depending on setting? nope 3b. If so, can you please explain why and how? n/a 4. How important is it to you that people use your preferred pronoun? not terribly important. it would be more an issue of confusion to me than anything else if somebody referred to me as something other than "she" 5a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "he," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? I think it would depend on the context, and I think I would possibly wonder about the motivation. If it was an attempt to honor my gender experience, I'd think it was neat. If it was an attempt to dismiss me as a woman or as a femme, I would possibly be upset. 5b. How do/would you react? I don't know if I would. 6a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "she," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? N/A 6b. How do/would you react? N/A 7a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "hy," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? Same as I would for "he" 7b. How do/would you react? I don't know 8a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "zie," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? possibly good, if I could figure out I was the person being referred to 8b. How do/would you react? I probably wouldn't 9a. When speaking of a specific butch, do you strive to ensure you are using that person's preferred pronoun? Yes 9b. If not, why not? Though I currently answer yes, there were times in the past when I did use different defaults. When I used "she" it was when I was new to the community and I thought "she" was the only option. When I used "he" it was because the self-identified butches I knew indicated that they preferred it and also that they felt misrepresented and upset about being called "she" When I used "hy" it was because a few people presented it to me as the "compromise" between "he" and "she" and as a "butch pronoun." Then there was a time that I just tried to switch it up each time I posted something. In most of these cases, I was talking in the hypothetical - not about a specific butch with a known pronoun. Also I think it's been about 3 years since I've done this regarding a known butch unless it was total accident. 9c. If not, what do you see as the possible effects for that butch and others in the community? I don't think I have a clear picture of all the possible ramifications, but I think it is erasing and offensive to most people to have the wrong pronoun applied to them, and it's also erasing and offensive to those who would share that ID, to their partners and allies. Depending on which pronoun it is, it also may create a cultural myth that there are more people who use that pronoun than there actually are. It may create false expectations and increase pressure to conform to a pronoun or gender representation that does not fit. It may also have ramifications outside of the community, as it may perpetuate or play into stereotypes within the straight or greater LGBTQ community. 10a. Do you associate different traits with different butch pronouns? no. 10b. Do you feel that different pronouns clue you in about how a butch may look, think, feel, dress, act, talk, walk, fuck, bond? no. I think there was a time when I thought maybe there were differences discernable from the outside, but my own ahem research has shown no correlation at all whatsoever between pronoun and any of these things. 10c. Do you associate different ideologies, alliances or belief systems with different butch pronouns? I do tend to imagine butches who use "she" as their pronoun are more likely to be pro-woman and I feel a greater sense of comfort and comradery in discussing issues affecting women with those who are more comfortable with the "she" pronoun. This is probably fucked up of me and worth exploring further. 11a. If you are referring to a butch, and you have not had the opportunity to find out what that person's preferred pronoun is, do you use a default pronoun? I have found myself not referring to butches in the third person very much these days, but I do tend to use a default pronoun on occasion and in absence of real data 11b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why? "she" in the absence of real knowledge or opportunity to ask 11c. If not, what do you do instead? I do find myself just trying to avoid butch pronouns altogether more often these days. Sometimes I have written "s/he" or "she/he/hy/zie." 11d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why? I am trending toward "she" in this regard because my current understanding is that there are more butches that prefer "she" and also because I am understanding more clearly that the dash site's culture (in which my queerness was birthed) tended toward "he" even though butches who used "he" were not in the majority there either. I would say that the standard should be NO DEFAULT EVER but there are times that you don't know and you can't ask. 12a. If you are referring to a hypothetical butch, do you use a default pronoun? I think my answers to 12 are going to be the same as 11. 12b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why? 12c. If not, what do you do instead? 12d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why? 13a. Do you tend to partner with butches who use a certain pronoun more often than others? "Partner with" would be stretching it - I have only "partnered with" one butch and he went by "he." My current relationship is not with a person who is butch-identified. However, if I look at the flings and encounters I had earlier in my out life (when I'm afraid I was a bit like a kid in a candy shop), of the self-identified butches and a few self-identified "bois", I think the number was pretty even between "she" and "he" - with one "hy." 13b. If so, what pronoun? N/A 13c. If so, can you share your thoughts about why this may be? pronouns have not been high on my list of reasons to date a person 14a. Are there times when you have been corrected for using an incorrect pronoun for a butch? yes. I remember the first time was Juney and she said something like, "not every butch is a "he"" when I used the term "he" regarding a hypothetical situation with a butch. I think Toughy said something to me before too, but I can't remember if she was directly correcting me or if she was correcting somebody else and I stuck my nose into it. And Medusa long ago said something about my use of the term "boi" - I think. And Metro long ago was very patient with me and helped me to better understand how cavalier I was being regarding this stuff. There have probably been more times - these are just the ones that spring to mind. I think it has taken a long time for me to get to the point where I feel capable of handling the complexity that exists. For me, it's very complex for my brain to work out. For a long time I was just looking for the "right" pronoun - the one that would keep me from offending the least people or getting jumped on. 14b. If so, how did you feel about it and how did it influence you? I have felt very appreciative toward the people who were kind to me or whom I observed being kind to others when correcting an incorrect pronoun. I have felt like those who treated me or others in a hostile way regarding pronoun use have contributed to a hostile environment and contributed to my own feelings of alienation. But I think everybody who has sought to correct me or others has influenced me in the long run to try to do better. 15. Do you have any other thoughts regarding the use of butch pronouns? not really 16. If you could add a question to this questionaire, what would it be? I've got nothing, but it's late. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

05-16-2010, 11:58 PM	#4
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,659 Times in 7,651 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	I usually try and stay out of these discussions cuz they get too complicated and convoluted for my simplistic view of the world. But, I'm having one of those days.....so...... I am a female and a woman who happens to be a lesbian. I expect to be called by female pronouns because I am a female and proud of it. I am frequently mistaken for a male on the phone and occasionally in person. It annoys me when this happens and it irks me to have to correct people....which I will do everytime. If I am unsure of someones preference I will refrain from using any pronoun until I can ask them about it. Even tho I will defend anyones right to be called by any pronoun they prefer, it irks me to have to jump thru these hoops. In my everyday life spanning over 35 years of being out, I have never had to deal with pronoun issues or "gender" issues. Both, for me, is like dealing with foreign concepts which are ever evolving and expanding in more and more directions to some unknown end. I am reluctant to use the term butch these days. Butch used to be a noun with a specific connotation. Now butch is an adjective used with other adjectives to create a unique identity within any number of growing subcultures within the larger community. The pride I used to feel in the term is as watered down as the term itself. I do not believe pronouns are a reliable indicator of any type of preferences i.e question 10 et al. I dont know that "standardizing" is feasible. If I could add a question it would be....the gay male community doesnt struggle with pronoun issues, femmes dont struggle with pronoun issues, what makes this an issue specific to butches? __________________

05-17-2010, 04:56 AM	#6
Linus The Planet's Technical Bubba How Do You Identify?: FTM Preferred Pronoun?: He/Him/Geek Relationship Status: Married to my forever! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 5,440 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,929 Thanked 10,743 Times in 3,176 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	I'll make it relatively simple (sorry.. the questionnaire made my head spin this morning). I look at their profile or see how they reference themselves (go back through posts). Whatever their choices is, I'm happy with. Few people get my pronoun wrong unless it's deliberately done. Neutral or masculine wouldn't bother me but feminine still rubs me not so right. __________________ Personal Blog \|\| [] \|\| Cigar Blog "We become Human Doings instead of Human Beings." -- Ram Dass

05-17-2010, 03:43 AM	#5
Bad_boi Member How Do You Identify?: Transman (male) Preferred Pronoun?: He, Him, His ect. Relationship Status: Handsome bastard. Tournaments Won: 1 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seattle Posts: 727 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 122 Thanked 1,824 Times in 499 Posts Rep Power: 0	1. How do you identify? Butch 2a. What is your preferred pronoun (when referencing yourself)? Hy 2b. Do you feel like your preferred pronoun fits you perfectly? yeah 2c. Did you have another or other preferred pronouns in the past? Not really. 3a. Does your preferred pronoun vary depending on setting? I am not picky but just prefer hy. 3b. If so, can you please explain why and how? 4. How important is it to you that people use your preferred pronoun? It makes me happy but I am not picky. 5a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "he," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? Kind of amused actually. 5b. How do/would you react? If it was someone I would be around a lot I might politely let them know I am a female. If I would never see them again I would ignore it so they would not be embarrased. 6a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "she," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? Not any different since I'm used to it. 6b. How do/would you react? Like normal. 7a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "hy," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? 7b. How do/would you react? I might crack a smile. 8a. If somebody refers to you by the pronoun, "zie," and this is not your preferred pronoun, how do/would you feel? Indifferent. 8b. How do/would you react? Like normal. 9a. When speaking of a specific butch, do you strive to ensure you are using that person's preferred pronoun? I ask. 9b. If not, why not? 9c. If not, what do you see as the possible effects for that butch and others in the community? 10a. Do you associate different traits with different butch pronouns? No 10b. Do you feel that different pronouns clue you in about how a butch may look, think, feel, dress, act, talk, walk, fuck, bond? They can but it is not a sure thing since everyone is different and outside the box. 10c. Do you associate different ideologies, alliances or belief systems with different butch pronouns? no 11a. If you are referring to a butch, and you have not had the opportunity to find out what that person's preferred pronoun is, do you use a default pronoun? Depends upon the situation. 11b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why? 11c. If not, what do you do instead? Most butches in my area are ok with she, if I am not sure I ask. 11d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why? No. Because everyone is different and no one should be put into a box. 12a. If you are referring to a hypothetical butch, do you use a default pronoun? mmhm. 12b. If so, which pronoun do you use and why? Hy because I like it for myself so I assume others would as well. 12c. If not, what do you do instead? 12d. Would you advocate a community-wide standard in this case? If so, what would it be and why? No. Standards are just plain silly. 13a. Do you tend to partner with butches who use a certain pronoun more often than others? Not really. 13b. If so, what pronoun? 13c. If so, can you share your thoughts about why this may be? 14a. Are there times when you have been corrected for using an incorrect pronoun for a butch? Nope 14b. If so, how did you feel about it and how did it influence you? 15. Do you have any other thoughts regarding the use of butch pronouns? 16. If you could add a question to this questionaire, what would it be? What is better- Chocolate chip or Oreo?

05-17-2010, 03:58 PM	#7
Apocalipstic Pink Confection How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, Her, Ma'am Relationship Status: Dating Myself Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Nashville Posts: 4,266 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 17,195 Thanked 11,383 Times in 2,840 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	Thank you Nat! I try to use the pronoun people prefer. if I don't know, I try to ask. I HATE it when people automatically use "He" or "Hy" for every Butch without asking. I try to be understamding and remind them "she" if indeed the person uses "she" as their prefered pronoun, but often, it makes no difference. I used to avoid people who did this even after being reminded several times, I am trying to soften on it and continue to remind them....but it sure gets old. __________________

05-17-2010, 05:53 PM	#10
SassyLeo Is Grateful How Do You Identify?: Queer Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Engaged Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: The PDX Posts: 1,526 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 846 Thanked 1,584 Times in 622 Posts Rep Power: 856201	I almost ALWAYS ask... what is your preferred pronoun? Or if speaking about someone not present, I might ask someone else involved in the conversation... "how does that person identify?" __________________ Joy is the best makeup -Anne Lamott

05-19-2010, 10:54 AM	#13
Rockinonahigh Senior Member How Do You Identify?: stone butch Preferred Pronoun?: makes no diffrence,I know who I am. Relationship Status: single,maybe looking if the right person comes along. Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 4,907 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,682 Thanked 14,937 Times in 3,936 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	When on the phone and in public I get called sir all the time ,in public its sir then ooohhh errrr excuse me mam....my reply is, whatever.Acualy I get tired of correcting ppl,I know who I am and dont need validation of my chosen gender expresion.I never have had a prob with how anyone else deals with being called sir or mam cause I respect there choices and roll with it.

05-19-2010, 11:01 AM	#14
Andrew, Jr. Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Me Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Over the Rainbow in a House Posts: 5,072 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 16,004 Thanked 5,249 Times in 2,216 Posts Rep Power: 0	I go with Rockin on this. I prefer he, him, his. I male id. I am middle aged, and at this point in my life I am not going to make a mountain out of an ant hill imho. In life you choose the battles that are significant to you, not a group or crowd but you. And that is where I am at in my life right now.

05-19-2010, 11:01 AM	#15
scootebaby Timed Out How Do You Identify?: yes dear Preferred Pronoun?: she Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: south florida Posts: 2,494 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,264 Thanked 6,737 Times in 1,777 Posts Rep Power: 0	i am butch,and i try not to default ever...i'll use screenname usually unless feeling very energetic then i will check profile b4 responding....however it gets confusing as i saw posted somewhere(maybe in another thread) how people id one way online and another in real life. i mean i understand the whole sometimes u have to bc of job or family or whatever,but those aside my g/f calls me she in real time she also calls me she online...dunno seems strange to me! if you are comfortable with who you really are shouldnt one pronoun be enough? work,family and HAVE to cases aside of course

05-19-2010, 11:33 AM	#16
Rockinonahigh Senior Member How Do You Identify?: stone butch Preferred Pronoun?: makes no diffrence,I know who I am. Relationship Status: single,maybe looking if the right person comes along. Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 4,907 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,682 Thanked 14,937 Times in 3,936 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	Hi Andrew..hope u r haveing a good day.Yes,I pick the battles that are winnable,some folks u cant change there minds or actions so I feel its there problem in life cause I have way to many things to do that are atainable and fun.Once there was a time I was not this way and figured I needed to be herd and let ppl know how I felt.then I lerned u cant fix stupid.Now in this day and age I dont really give a s**t,the folks in my life that matter is what counts.

05-19-2010, 12:25 PM	#17
JustBeingMe Senior Member How Do You Identify?: as ME Relationship Status: I don't need no stinking status. Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: somewhere you're not..... Posts: 1,808 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,961 Thanked 1,691 Times in 694 Posts Rep Power: 12813868	I generally have used the person's screen name and that's either in real life because i dind't know their chosen name or real name they used, and online. I identify as a Lesbian Butch Female ID, I prefer that I am referred to as She but I don't get bent out of shape and make it an issue when someone uses an incorrect pronoun. However, when I have supposedly used an incorrect pronoun because I speak correct English, I have been chastised and brow beat to death over the issue. That's why I choose to use either their real name they use if I know it, or their screen name, in order to keep the peace so to speak. I have some really good friends that are male ID'd but if I mispeak to them and say she instead of he, they don't make it an issue either. It's just not that important to them. They choose their battles, and pronouns is NOT one of them. On the dash site, I did find in chat or threads, that the majority of butches were referred to as He or Hy, instead of what the actual majority is which is She on that site. I found quite a bit of in fighting with male ID'd butches over the issue of visibility for female/woman ID"d butches in the threads on that site as well. which I personally, from my ME space, find it repulsive to infight over such issues. I got sick of it. I no longer engage in such discussions anymore because you end up and and the thread is.... And that's just my .... __________________ Nothing more, Nothing less, I'm Just Being Me

09-10-2013, 11:31 PM	#18
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender Preferred Pronoun?: whatevs Relationship Status: in a relationship Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tx Posts: 3,535 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,042 Thanked 13,993 Times in 2,596 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	Was going back through some older threads today and thought the survey results for this turned out interestingly. So the largest portion of each identity chose the option that y'all/we try never to use default pronouns for butches. Then it gets interesting. Femmes split down the middle between "he" and "she", but if you add in the 5 femmes who use "hy," that means the majority of femmes who use a default pronoun are phonetically defaulting to what sounds like "he." More interestingly - to me - because I feel like femmes bear the brunt of the pronoun burden at times - butches by far default to "he" or "hy" compared with "she" when using a default pronoun for butches. And the trend continues amongst trans folks - only one stating they default to "she" for butches. I personally continue to be frustrated with my own brain - often calling some butches "she" when I know they are "hy" or "he" and then calling other butches "he" when I know they are she. I don't tend to accidentally "hy" people these days. I do try, but I definitely appreciate butches who are easy-going about their pronouns. ha. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

09-11-2013, 05:54 AM	#19
DapperButch Roadster Guy How Do You Identify?: FTM, Stone Butch Preferred Pronoun?: He Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northeast Posts: 7,745 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 26,545 Thanked 26,896 Times in 5,773 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	I continue to wonder why so many butches do not use the pronoun preferred slot under their name. Then this issue of people being insulted when someone uses the wrong pronoun for them could be avoided. The reality (whether we want to see it or not), is that people have defaults, based on their experiences with butches (online and offline). I find it hard to believe that most people are purposely calling others by the wrong pronoun due to their own agenda as to what pronoun they believe should be the default pronoun for a butch. I think it is unfair for someone to be upset if the wrong pronoun is used for them if they do not tell the member what to call them by using the preferred pronoun slot. It is not fair to expect that everyone will remember what pronoun you/someone else used to refer to you in a post long ago (that most likely, the person never even read). Too, even if you use the preferred pronoun slot, give people a break who make a mistake. There are people who have not been online for many years and do not know that there is a possibility that people prefer one pronoun over the other (I would suggest that offline b/f communities, especially those who do not frequent b/f forums, use one or the other almost exclusively). I think that until we know otherwise, lets give people the benefit of the doubt (especially if you do not use the preferred pronoun slot). I know I appreciate it when someone uses it. With all of that said, I have heard butches say that there are times that people know their preferred pronoun, yet insist on calling them by the speaker's preferred pronoun for butches. I see this as unexcusable. Like most things in life, it is all about intent. One last thing, when talking about the above, I am obviously referring to times when one does not have the opportunity to ask the person's preferred pronoun before using a pronoun for the person (assuming the person has not used the pronoun slot). __________________ -Dapper Are you educated or indoctrinated?

09-11-2013, 06:37 AM	#20
Parker Timed Out - Permanent How Do You Identify?: Butch. Lesbian. Dyke. Woman. Female. Preferred Pronoun?: She, of course! Relationship Status: Content Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Small Town Life Posts: 2,880 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 7,858 Thanked 11,730 Times in 2,432 Posts Rep Power: 0	Bouncing off of Dapper's thoughts: and if the butch has a preferred pronoun on their profile, but the wrong pronoun is accidentally used, it is not meant as an insult when that butch corrects the person speaking to them.