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Old 04-29-2017, 05:07 PM   #261
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Thanks to all the folks who sent me messages. i know i am not alone and it sure feels good.

i feel like the worst daughter ever.. she's my MOM i am told. i know who she is. She has never acted like one.

Yes (thank you) i feel like an orphan. i haven't had *parents* in forever.

i don't know if my father is dead or alive, but if he is dead, i won't shed a tear.
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Old 04-30-2017, 01:27 PM   #262
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well, i tried to fix things by calling my mom on FaceTime this morning. i started off real positive and cheerful. That did not last long.

She became hysterically angry at me. She was crying and saying some pretty ugly things. i definitely have lost my good daughter card.

i also realized yesterday, that when things with my mom get flared up, i slide into old self destructive patterns.

its a cycle.
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:02 PM   #263
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I know this is a derail but I must say this: with all kindness and respect, people that do not have severely toxic parents do not understand.

I know each situation is different but all abusive and toxic parents are the same in the way that they destroy your soul.

I have had to deal with a seriously dysfunctional and damaging mother (and father, too) for my whole life.

People have said to me: "But she is your mother". Yes, she is. Very sadly, she is.

They have said: "You are going to feel bad when she dies if you don't even try".

Yes and I have felt badly my entire life.

My last little, tiny kernel of hope for a real, loving mother; will die with her.

I spent 5 years in therapy, starting at age 21, because I did not want to abuse/hurt/harm my own children if I did not learn how to be different than my mother.

I would sit in therapy and cry my heart out, asking repeatedly, "But why doesn't she love me?"

My therapist, like a broken record, would say, "Because she can't".

It took me the whole 5 years to get to the point of acceptance of this simple fact and to believe that I would be a different mother with my children than the one I was born to.

And I was.

I tried multiple times to connect with her (and my father) over the years, but either her damaging criticism of me or the repeated litany of all of the grudges she carried and never let go, would be repeated, no matter what I tried to talk about or how I attempted to get the conversation on a positive track:

"You never practiced the piano. We got you lessons and you just wouldn't do it. The boys play beautifully now because they practiced." This was always said to guests when they would walk in the house: "They all had lessons but only the boys stuck with it. Anya quit". I would always feel ashamed and embarrassed as though a I had done something terribly wrong.

"Your grades could have been much better , you do have a brain, you just never used it. Note- I got C's, D's and F's in high school due to being so beaten down mentally and physically.

In college-I had an almost a straight A average. I got an award in nursing school for being the best student- what did mom and dad say: "See, we knew you could do it. We just never understood why you never even tried".

The last time I was at my parents, probably 6 years ago, before dad broke his hip and they moved into assisted living; my father gave me all of my report cards from second grade through 12th. They also had an IQ test I don't recall ever taking.

Their point? To show me how poorly I did in school and to show me how smart I was so they could again dive into my underachievement history.

To what end? To what purpose?

My perspective on that is that by making me the focus of all of their anger (frequently at each other) they never had to think about themselves as long as I was the punching bag (literally and metaphorically).

Somehow, the worse I felt, the more self-righteous they felt. They would feel better when I felt worse.

I gathered everything up that day, said I have to go now and walked out.

After that, they stopped talking to me again and I said: enough.

I honor all of you for being good sons, daughters, spouses, lovers and caring for parents and loved ones the way that you do. I read this thread even though it makes me sad.

I wish that I had parents (now just my mom. Dad died last August. I was not allowed to go to the funeral) that I could help.

It just is not the way that it is.

I want to close by saying that my youngest daughter told me yesterday that she and her boyfriend just got approved for a house in LA. She said to me: "Mom it has a downstairs apartment. We got it so that when you get to where you need help, you can come live with us".

I still cry with happiness to even write it.

Some parents are so toxic, it is best to avoid them like the plague that they are. Of course, frequently it was not my healthy choice to avoid them.

My coming out in 1978 earned me a 15- year no-talking ban. It actually was the beginning of putting together the crumbs of insight that I had learned in therapy. Those 15 years were a blessing, in retrospect.
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"...I'm deeply concerned by recently adopted policies which punish children for their parents’ actions ... The thought that any State would seek to deter parents by inflicting such abuse on children is unconscionable."

UN Human Rights commissioner
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:02 PM   #264
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I totally hear both Dee and Anya.

I agree with Dee that it's a cycle.

I agree with Anya's therapists' assessment that her mother couldn't understand because she can't /couldn't.

And, for me, because the two scenarios above which are persistent and present in both Dee and Anya's situational experiences, is exactly the reason why I *had* to break ties with my family, years ago. I went 10 years enforcing a no contact code between myself and my parents and siblings because of the cyclic nature of toxic relational ties between members of my family. I too have spent lots of time in therapy, during my ten year break from my family: Only to discover that for my own sanity, and safety and peace of mind, that the toxic controlling behaviors of my parents and siblings was something I did *not* have to be a participant in.

The behaviors of my parents and siblings are still present in their lives, still to this day. It's why I literally moved myself physically away from where I grew up. I can visit with my mother by phone....but it's not peachy, all the time. When it gets to be too much work for me to navigate between any of us, I distance myself from them. It's about the only "signal" they cognizantly understand (if ever), due to the ten years I enforced a zero contact situation between myself and them.

I'm actually worried that my mother is perilously close to having a massive stroke, which would upend the cozy, unhealthy reliance my siblings enjoy with my mother. Even lately, when I encourage my mother with steps she could take to look out for herself, rather than my remaining siblings, it's like she can't hear me or is so deeply entangled in the vicious cycle that it scares her to take steps to end her role in my family's unhealthy scenarios.

Anyway.... I just wanted to share about my own family dilemmas because it's imperative that I remain vigilant in safe guarding myself when engaging with members of my family.

And too, to express thar my heart goes out to Anya and Dee and anyone else who is dealing with ongoing family issues.
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Old 04-30-2017, 06:33 PM   #265
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Hey girl_dee

I've been reading your posts and just want you to know I hear what you are saying. The emotional wear and tear of this is exhausting, especially over time. I don't know how long you have been at it but I'm only two years on, also long distance for self preservation, though for different reasons.

My mother has fairly early dementia, zero short term memory, and it's tough in very weird ways. We got along fine when I was in my twenties, then she disappeared for 25+ years (my father didn't like us talking) and then out of the blue my father had a massive stroke and since then she has needed everything. She won't do anything to help herself except complain. Daily.

The nurse I have hired for her and to manage the caregivers told me that he thinks she has "weaponized passivity" down to a science.

I chronicled the whole mess for the first year in this thread but since then I've realized that it.just.won't.stop. Until she dies. I never had kids or siblings so I never had to develop the inexhaustible well of patience required to do this.

All that to say I understand the dread for the daily call, the self harming cycles, the rollercoaster of "what now?", and the just plain old have to keep doing this. I am glad you are posting, it's nice (?) to hear how you are dealing with things, it's easy to get isolated.
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Old 04-30-2017, 06:45 PM   #266
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Default Self-care - Self-Protection = Self-Trust and Self-Love

Anya, Katzchen, girl_dee...as you know
I don't usually share my personal story, but I
feel compelled to share with you a small part
of my early story, and a bit of my now life.

I too am a survivor of severe emotional, physical
abuse at the hands of a step-mother. Somehow I
found the strength at 6yo to show one of my paternal
aunts my legs, arms, and back...my aunt took me
out of that place that very day. My paternal aunt
was what Alice Miller calls an "enlightened witness", that
is she protected me without question, and loved me until
her death in 2004. She loved classical music and played
it always at home. Classical music = love for me.

More cycles came in my life until I left home at 16
and never returned.

"No Contact" was imperative for my well-being
and until this day I count as my family only
my sisters, brothers, nieces, nephews and their
children. My paternal aunt died awhile ago as I've
mentioned but I know I'll see her again.

I want the ten commandments to begin with Honor thy Children.

Today, and for the last 3 decades one of my callings
has been as psychotherapist and yes, I "walk" with people
through the pain and darkness of their early, and not so early
abuse by personality disordered parents, families, partners, and
friends. This is not a "plug" for me, but an example of
how I pass on my own healing. My own therapy/healing
from abuse has been long, and has continued throughout
years in practice.

Anya, when you said and I quote, "I spent 5 years in
therapy, starting at age 21, because I did not want to
abuse/hurt/harm my own children if I did not learn
how to be different than my mother.", it brought tears
of joy to my heart, kudos for being a good mother, a
safe and loving mother.

Katzchen, kudos to you as well for doing the hard work
it takes to heal and having the strength of going no contact
with your family.

girl_dee, I've learned to honor only those that
honor me no matter who they are...there are
many survivors on this site and others who have
healed from abuse from parental figures. You are
not alone, and you are not crazy, or bad.

The characteristics that I have found in the people I work
with and myself are inner strength, courage, and resilience
off the charts. Without these characteristics we wouldn't
still be here, and another factor that is a spiritual one.

I'll stop here and say that Self-care - Self-protection = Self-Trust and Self-Love.

with much respect, and fondly, Greco
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:07 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Greco View Post
girl_dee, I've learned to honor only those that
honor me no matter who they are...there are
many survivors on this site and others who have
healed from abuse from parental figures. You are
not alone, and you are not crazy, or bad.
it is abuse. every interaction now is her unloading on me about how i dumped her in that place and took off.

i cannot deal with it.
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:10 PM   #268
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how about when you see other mothers and daughters having a normal relationship?

it brings up big stuff for me.
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:32 PM   #269
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Default self-care - Self-Protection = Self-Trust and Self-Love

girl_dee, that is painful beyond words, yes.

In healing from abuse from a maternal/paternal figure
I will share with you that seeing loving parents would
trigger deep grieving for me. Therapy with a therapist
who had healed, and was knowledgeable was what I
did to feel this grieving and heal.

And I found in this process that I have my ideal mother, and
ideal father within myself. And that I could love myself the
way I wanted my mother and father to love me.

It takes take time, find a caring, knowledgeable therapist
and be tender, gentle with yourself.

fondly, Greco




Quote:
Originally Posted by girl_dee View Post
how about when you see other mothers and daughters having a normal relationship?

it brings up big stuff for me.
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Old 05-01-2017, 12:32 AM   #270
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girl_dee, that is painful beyond words, yes.

In healing from abuse from a maternal/paternal figure
I will share with you that seeing loving parents would
trigger deep grieving for me. Therapy with a therapist
who had healed, and was knowledgeable was what I
did to feel this grieving and heal.

And I found in this process that I have my ideal mother, and
ideal father within myself. And that I could love myself the
way I wanted my mother and father to love me.

It takes take time, find a caring, knowledgeable therapist
and be tender, gentle with yourself.

fondly, Greco

Yesterday while she was unloading on me, i felt s sad for her. She is so broken.i think i underestimated how miserable she is
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Old 05-01-2017, 06:12 AM   #271
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it is abuse. every interaction now is her unloading on me about how i dumped her in that place and took off.

i cannot deal with it.
You have to protect yourself. It may seem harsh, but if communication with her is hurting you, limit that. Cut it completely for a certain amount of time if necessary. Give her a boundary.....if you won't speak to me respectfully, then I will not communicate with you for one month....or whatever works for you....and then stand by it. She will push your boundary. Probably run it over from the sounds of it, but we MUST maintain boundaries with the people that are the reason for a lot of our other boundaries.

I had to compartmentalize very well when I was younger between my relationship with my mother and my relationship with my abuser. Maybe too well. It's a light switch for me. You won't respect me and my boundaries? You push me repeatedly? Fine. I'm done. I don't expect anyone else to do that but it's how I've had to be. I've had to cut people out or they would drag me down into their misery quicksand. It was survival.


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Originally Posted by girl_dee View Post
how about when you see other mothers and daughters having a normal relationship?

it brings up big stuff for me.
I feel longing followed by either anger or resentment towards my mom. Then I remember that there's no such thing as normal and usually start to wonder what their 'stuff' is, because every family has stuff.
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Old 05-01-2017, 04:54 PM   #272
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i met with my fam today to talk about my mom.

Someone suggested that i have a talk with her, to let her know that if every single communication is her dumping on me and coming at me with daggers, i will have to stop communicating

That probably should have happened long ago rather than me trying to *fix* her every single time, which never works and results in some really dark stuff for me.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:51 PM   #273
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a month later and my mom has decided to move from the living facility where she is to go near her sister, 50 miles away, who lives in the middle of nowhere. There are no hospitals near and she won't know where anything is.

She has told her sister that we have all just left her. So she needs to be *saved*. i know my aunt knows better, but whatever.

i know this is the biggest mistake ever, and i am struggling to check out.

How do you check out when its your mother????
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Old 06-07-2017, 04:25 PM   #274
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a month later and my mom has decided to move from the living facility where she is to go near her sister, 50 miles away, who lives in the middle of nowhere. There are no hospitals near and she won't know where anything is.

She has told her sister that we have all just left her. So she needs to be *saved*. i know my aunt knows better, but whatever.

i know this is the biggest mistake ever, and i am struggling to check out.

How do you check out when its your mother????
Honestly, I have struggled with it for years.

What is "it"?

In a nutshell, I try to use the Serenity Prayer when it comes to my mother and until my dad died last August, with him, too.

I can not make my mother be different. I do not have the power to make her a kind and loving person. I can not get her to be happy that she has me for a daughter. She is 89 now so there won't be some miracle intervention happening for her.

My mom is who she is and who she will always be. My father was the same.

Then, he died.

The difference is that I have come to a place of acceptance with both of them.

It still makes me sad. I wish that things had been different for all of us. I have always felt like an orphan and when I was a kid, I did used to pray that something would happen to them so I could be adopted by a loving family like some of my friends had.

It didn't and we get the parents that we get.

You can't change your mom. You know in your heart that you have done the very best that you can. You truly have to believe that there is not one more magic thing that you could try. If you don't really believe it, you will feel guilt and feel torn that somehow this or other choices that she makes, are your fault.

Guilt is not productive and it can eat you up.

I have read your posts about your mom. You know that you can't change her. We really do not have power over anyone else's bad decisions or choices.

Even when we love them.

(((Femme hug)))
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"...I'm deeply concerned by recently adopted policies which punish children for their parents’ actions ... The thought that any State would seek to deter parents by inflicting such abuse on children is unconscionable."

UN Human Rights commissioner
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Old 06-08-2017, 03:58 AM   #275
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Anya (((( thank you ))))))

at this point, i don't want to change her. i just want the power to be in a place where i don't feel hurt anymore.

My sister who has NEVER had to deal with my mom, has to now. i am not one bit sorry that i am not there. She is going to pack up my mom, and deal with the red tape of HUD, the movers, the utilities, the bank, the doctors, the everything.

She texted me all day yesterday and said "this is all your fault for moving away" ... then added a "lol"

Like mother like daughter.

i just don't want to have anything to do with this anymore.

AND i am going on a kinky weekend trip, and my mother will be here visiting and staying with me, when i get back.


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Old 06-18-2017, 03:42 AM   #276
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my mom is going home after her 4 days with me. it is so hard as this is my sacred space and her negative energy is in my space.

Yesterday, her last day, she was completely miserable and difficult. Guilt trip on overload. This is how she wants to spend the little time we have together. She reminded me at least 4.5 million times that i moved and left her. How no one cares about her. She is moving in a week and can't pay the movers. She is almost 80 and still chasing contentment.

Maybe its because i came home to her being in my sacred space after 5 days of kink and fun and feel more powerful... i cannot let her ruin my mood. Maybe its because i am finally realizing that she is just going to be miserable no matter what i do, but she just isn't getting to me. At least i don't think so. okay maybe a little.


One more hour and i drop her off with the family to take her home.

SO bittersweet,
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Old 06-24-2017, 04:24 AM   #277
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First thank you for all of the notes and support. i appreciate it. i appreciate this space as well.

Yesterday my mom moved. Turns out she isn't so helpless after all. She is now living in the middle of no where but close to her sister. i hope this works out, because i can't bail her out this time. She will be great during the honeymoon period. This is her pattern. For 50 years she moves every couple of years. Never happy with where she is.

She is REALLY angry with me. She said she just gave up on me "wanting her to be close to me". She really expected me to move her out here with me. She is SO bitter. She doesn't want to hear how happy i am, she just resents it.

We had a talk in the car last weekend. She feels i have done something TO her by living my own life. i noticed that during our talk, everything came back to her being a victim somehow, because everyone is living their lives. i was not even able to tell her what a great time i had in California, it just makes her more angry. i am so frustrated!

Now my aunt is "her person". The one who is doing for her, catering to her, is her only "one' and the rest of us are traitors. My mother has always had someone close to her to spoil her, then when it wears off she moves on and they are become the devil. i do believe she has run out of options, and this is all she can get. She has hated this sister of hers forever, now she is her best friend.

i gave her some money for the move. Its the only thing i could think of to do. i think its just a reflex to try to get her approval somehow.

Her words cut yesterday, but i am getting numb to it, i think.My reaction wasn't as bad as it has been. i just want to be able to love her without resentment and anger. i don't remember what she is like without all of that.
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Old 06-24-2017, 07:26 PM   #278
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Ms Dee

Let by start by saying thank you for this thread. I responded when you first posted and prayed that it would be years before it ever fell to me to be a caregiver. It was but not long enough.

I have always been afraid that it would be my father I would have to care for and it turns out it is my mother.

I came home when she got sick and thought I would be here a week or two that is now going on 2.5 months.

My job lets me work from home however I am being told I am not doing my job. When I ask what am I not doing I am told you are not here. I see this as a quilt trip from work because now my coworkers r atully having to do their jobs.

I found a job in Atlanta, found an apartment and moved in. The day before I was suppose to start my mom had a break down and I postponed starting for a week.

The night before I was to start I was leaving her house to go to my apartment and I thought I was going to have to take her to the hospital. It was bad. I took her to my apartment. We stayed there 2 nights and she couldn't handle it.

So I commute 1.5 to 2 hours one way. I work the job from Dallas when I get home at night and on weekends.

I am stressed to the max. I ask for time for myself and she acts like a 2 yr old.

She refuses to let my brothers stay here unless I am here. I have found out why and I agree.

I know I need time for me and have asked for it. NOw getting my brothers, and or mother to comply is the issue.

My brothers will be here for the 4th of July next weekend and I am hoping to have some time to myself. I will update after the weekend.

I am afraid that as much time as my mom requires will ruin my relationship. My gf understands what I am going thru she went thru it with her mom.

I just wonder how it can survive when we cant have any alone time. She lets us stay here but every waking moment all 3 of us are together. By time its bed time we are so sleepy all we can do is sleep.

How do you tell your parent NO, how do you get them to hear you need time also and not just time to and from work?

I want to thank everyone for allowing me the space to say what I need to say and for any and all suggestions
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Old 06-25-2017, 06:21 AM   #279
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Teddybear...

I was hoping to hear about how things are going.

It seems we have the same.mom.

After this round i have really checked out. I just cant keep putting myself out there.

I hope you can do the same.

Its so painful but allowing anyone to hurt you like this is just not acceptable.
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Old 06-25-2017, 08:26 AM   #280
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Truly, my own heartaches for all the heartache I read of here. I went no contact with my own mother for the last year of her life {not that I knew it would be her last at the time} after a lifetime of narcissistic abuse it was the best decision I ever made. I should of done it years before. That said she has been dead 10 years now and as a middle aged woman who has survived more than my fair share of lifes troubles I am still scared of her.....still. Such are the long lasting effects of an abusive childhood. They say the best revenge {if thats what is needed} is to live a good life and thrive, I try, some days are harder and than others. Let your inner voice speak to yourself with kindness, you deserve it.
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