The Debates

[PapiChino]

Originally Posted by Martina

The Presidential and VP Debates.

Well, number one was a bust for Obama. Romney was on fire and ignored the ancient Jim Lehrer, who seemed only to monitor President Obama's time.

But I am shocked that Obama was so poorly prepared. God, Mitt was good. Scary.

Maybe Romney's lies shocked him. But the President DID look tired and he stuttered often. Oh well....on to the next debate..

[DMW]

watch this...http://www.bradblog.com/?p=1050

ohhh i didn't see this...and someone that Curtis worked with was murdered also.. i forget all of the details...awhile ago...http://www.votinglies.com/


Diebold and sequoia... 2 companies and 2 states just for starters
OHIO in 2004 and then florida in 2000. there were more of course..but, those were the kickers

Diebold todayhttp://kaystreet.wordpress.com/2012/...ote-control-2/

one of the greatest...i will never forget...Senators like Hillary were demanding paper receipts of ballots for her state and the nation. so that the voter at least had a paper print out from these
backward machines. I will always pull a straight ticket no matter what now.

and now redistricting fraud... ugh


and some more voter fraud info...from old. haven't visited it in awhile
http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/for....cgi?pg=topics

[DMW]

Nice, bev has kept the states updated...http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/for....cgi?pg=topics

ES&S is another screwed up fraud machine company. http://www.blackboxvoting.org/ I cannot recall, at the moment, if they merged or were bought out by diebold or sequoia or visa versa...doesn't matter really.

The only good thing is to get a paper receipt. some machines are better than others. point is...can't trust it and it is even more of a reason to vote.


and bain...http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-profits-video


and redistricting and karl rove and the koch brothers...this is just basic information. there is a shit storm of redistricting across the nation.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/..._redistricting

[Martina]

Politico was saying that this is going to get donor money flowing again. He has had some fundraising woes lately -- Romney has.

Also, they have not had effective ads. The clips from this -- again, according to that article -- will provide a lot of good material for future ads.

Plus, the increase in credibility will mean that more voters will be willing to actually listen to his message. For a few the message will resonate.

Unless there are some great Obama ads focusing on Romney's lying, I think it's a net good for Romney.

[Slater]

Romney is now saying that he was completely wrong about the 47% so it's going to be harder for Obama to leverage that. He still can, with something along the lines of how out of touch he must be to have thought that in the first place AND taken so long to realize he was wrong.

In the end, Obama saving the auto industry might be the difference in the election because the industrial Midwest is where this election will hinge.

[Corkey]

Obama is polling at 54%, so he got a bump out of the debates as well. I think folks are starting to see the real Mitt, and are not liking what they see.

[Rockinonahigh]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Obama is polling at 54%, so he got a bump out of the debates as well. I think folks are starting to see the real Mitt, and are not liking what they see.

Ya know, I've been thinking this is just what the president wanted people to see.The more Romney blows and goes the worst he gets,a snake oil peddler chant, sooner or later it will get him.

[Martina]

CNN reports that the President himself is not pleased with his performance. We'll see how it goes in two weeks. Here's hoping that Romney doesn't get much of a bump and that Obama's ad guys do some genius work.

[Kätzchen]

While sleepless tonight and reading political blogs, I came across an article in the UK Telegragh (How a broker spent $520m in a drunken stupor and moved the global oil price) about a 34 yr. old oil trader who, in an alcohol induced blackout, traded "huge volumes of oil with very little cash up front and no position limit" (see article, HERE).

After the intial shock of reading how this happened, I noticed in the lower right-hand corner of their blog, a link to an The National Memo's article about Mitt Romney and the political head-spinning twist of saying that he was going to "end public finance of America's largest classroom - PBS;" which PBS fired back saying that they're going to announce the shows' newest member "Big Oil" and that if "this works out, next season we'll meet Big Oil's imaginary friend, Clean Coal" (see article, HERE).



Which, in turn, led me to another article at The National Memo, which spoke to 5 reasons why Romney is a worse candidate than John McCain was, last time we had a presidential election (see article, HERE). Short form from the article:

1. A draft-avoiding, private equity maven with a record conforming his views with the orthodoxy of his party. Romney's one great accomplishment -- health care reform -- almost cost him his party's nomination.
2. When Mitt Romney picked Paul Ryan, he may have picked someone who is more experienced on the public stage than Sarah Palin, but he also picked a candidate many voters will vote against for his plans to slash Medicare, Medicaid and education.
3. (The race card) Mitt Romney's relentless repetition of a debunked charge about welfare reform reeks of racial innuendo.
4. Who quits a winning campaign six weeks before election day? No one. But Romney's national co-chair Tim Pawlenty did just that on Thursday.
5. (Statistic proof provided by The Pew) Romney has the worst favorable to unfavorable ratings of any candidate for president since Pew started measuring such things.

In addition, I thought some of you might find this article fascinating (I know I did). I have excerpted the opening article lines from Highly Debatable: The Big Liar’s Biggest Lies:

“It’s not easy to debate a liar,” complained an email from one observer of the first presidential debate – and there was no question about which candidate he meant. Prevarication, falsification, fabrication are all familiar tactics that have been employed by Mitt Romney without much consequence to him ever since he entered public life, thanks to the inviolable taboo in the mainstream media against calling out a liar (unless, of course, he lies about sex)" (Link provided, HERE).

[~ocean]

can u just picture leaders of other countrys laughing at ROMNEY holding BIG BIRD accountable for the deficit !! lol .. how embarassing ~~

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by PapiChino

Maybe Romney's lies shocked him. But the President DID look tired and he stuttered often. Oh well....on to the next debate..

Yes, I thought to myself that Romney lying/changing up might have thrown Obama off. Obama's mind must have been a bit blown at that moment. Since Obama can be good at hiding emotions we may not have seen this on his face.

[Martina]

Rasmussen and WeAskAmerica have Romney getting bumps in Florida and Virginia. Rasmussen always sorta favors Romney, but if they detect a change, then I imagine there was one. I don't know much about the WeAskAmerica folks.

Gallup's national poll gave Obama a one point bump. Go figure.

Anyway, here's hoping the job numbers make up some of the difference. Obama is lucky, and luck is part of the equation.

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by Martina

This race could be very close. Close elections in the U.S. mean that fraud can make the difference, and we have fraud. Rachel Maddow today had a segment today on Idaho's voter guide, which says, "Bring Your ID and Vote" when there is no voter ID requirement in Idaho. A firm employed by the RNC just got caught turning in fraudulant registration forms in Florida. This is a firm which had destroyed Democratic registration cards in swing states in 04.

In 2000, Gore lost a lot of traction after the debates, and in 04 Kerry got within striking distance after a good showing. They can narrow the race significantly.

I think Romney will get a bounce from this, the bounce he didn't get after the Convention. It will make the race a close one, and that is dangerous in this country because the Republicans are willing to break the law to win elections.

One great quote I heard - can't recall who said it -- went something like Obama's campaign has been doing the work for him while Romney has been doing the work for his campaign. Romney is in there fighting with everything he has. Obama spent last Sunday watching football. It's not encouraging.

Heh. I wonder if the Republican party in Idaho is being investigated for tampering with voting processes. I'm a former Idahoan and my homestate has been held in a Republican stranglehold-gridlock for years. I wish I knew someone in the Democratic offices over there, so I could find out what is going on. I see that Lawrence G. Wasden is Idaho's current Attorney General and he appears to be two years younger than me. He also got his education at Brigham Young University in Utah. If Wasden cares about his governmental seat of power, I would think he would issue and expedite an independent investigation of his own political party's culpability in having anything to do with the voting process in Idaho; and find out who is behind this and swiftly prosecute non-partisanly the people who are behind tampering with voter rights and processes.

Racism and Religious politics are twin governing forces in my homestate and the exact reason I left there, years ago.

[Martina]

Laughing at Jon Stewart's line: "Mr. President, you broke Chris Matthews!"

And WTF is wrong with Jack Welch? Seriously crazy.

[macele]

maddow also talked about the pennsylvania voters website telling voters to bring photo ID when it's not a have-to there. could make a difference in voting.

[Okiebug61]

Obama may have not looked good but I'm taking the high road on this one. Romney spewed so much bs that now he has nowhere to go but down. We get to vote 30 days from tomorrow and I am going to believe that the real Amerian People will know what to do. :-)

[Martina]

From Politico:

Nobody had to tell President Barack Obama he had whiffed when he walked off the stage in Denver Wednesday night — nor was he in the mood for a lot of advice.

“You could tell he was pissed,” said a person close to the president, “But it wasn’t like the end of the world. It was like, ‘That wasn’t good. The next one has to better.’ No apologies. No hand-wringing.”

That night, after a brief, terse chat with his advisers backstage at the University of Denver arena — “He had real clarity about what had happened,” one of them told POLITICO with a chuckle — Obama hopped in his limo, “The Beast,” and sped off to a nearby DoubleTree with wife Michelle.

He had had enough of politics for the night.
. . . .

At first, Obama didn’t think his performance was a complete disaster. But he began Thursday morning by watching excerpts of his own performance and was especially struck by his own tentative, grim demeanor — especially when he and a more relaxed Mitt Romney were broadcast in split-screen. It was worse than he thought, according to one person close to the situation. He was subdued but positive on a conference call with staff.
. . . .

Hours after arguably the worst debate performance of his career, Obama charged that Romney is a different man than the guy he faced Wednesday. But it was the president who seemed to be a totally different guy on Thursday. Gone was the distracted, deer-in-headlights mumbler. In his place, suddenly, was someone doing a pretty good impersonation of Obama ’08.

His mood was radically different Thursday — not just calm but buoyant, loose, focused. It reminded several aides close to the president of his response to Hillary Clinton’s stunning comeback win in the New Hampshire primary in 2008. It’s a cliché in his camp that Obama only feels really motivated when his own destruction is in sight, but the magnitude of his lousy performance clearly motivated him as he plunged back into campaigning.
. . . .
With Obama, it’s not just about will — it’s always about mood, too. For all that’s been written about his flop in front of roughly 67 million viewers, the reality, according to the people who know him best, is that he just wasn’t in the right headspace. The president had too many conflicting thoughts bouncing around his head and could never quite reconcile his desire to attack Romney with his fear of alienating voters by appearing angry or unpresidential. The result was a muddle that has given Romney new life.

Obama had always planned to play it pretty safe, but his advisers expected him to be more aggressive, peppering Romney with requests for specifics on his deficit and tax plans. They also figured on him smiling a whole lot more, a key part of winning the body-language battle.

And, to the puzzlement of Democrats, he didn’t mention two of the most effective attack lines — Bain Capital and Romney’s “47 percent” video.

On Thursday, Plouffe told reporters on Air Force One that the omissions weren’t deliberate.
. . . .

“Thank God somebody is finally getting tough on Big Bird,” he said. “We didn’t know that Big Bird was driving the federal deficit. … Elmo, too?” But it wasn’t the joke that struck a top Obama adviser watching from stage right, it was the way the boss was gripping the lectern — left hand grabbing the front, right hand in his pocket.

“Look,” the person said, “That’s what he does when he’s really into it.”
. . . .

“It’s not a positive by any means,” an Obama aide said. “But for our supporters, the debate was sort of helpful because they have assumed the race was locked up. It isn’t. But that message hasn’t been getting through. This might scare them.”

[Martina]

I know he's human and entitled to preferences (doesn't love campaigning) and moods, but, as I am sure he is aware of, a lot depends on his re-election, and as others have pointed out, his supporters are working their hearts out. Preferences and moods are just not relevant for the next thirty-two days.

-- still annoyed

[Martina]

Another article about the Obama performance.

Anyway, enough chewing over this (for me), but it is an interesting article.

“The reason I hate campaigns,” Edley continued, “is that being right on the substance isn’t good enough. That’s why I’m an academic. Of course, Obama knows that, but it’s also a question of what he cares about. I admire him for caring more about the substance than the tactics even if it makes me grimace when I watch him. Why does he do it? Look, we all do things in the short term that are not consistent with a long-term goal, whether it’s failing to save for retirement or watching TV instead of doing your homework. It’s called being human rather than being the ideal client of your handlers. It makes it harder to achieve his goal, which is to get reëlected. But if you wanted authenticity you got it [on Wednesday] night. And, really, you got it in an unsurprising way. We know that Obama skews cerebral and that he has never liked debates as a way to engage issues. He has said that many times.”

With Romney working his ass off, I don't care about Obama's preferences. His acceptance speech at the Convention was lackluster too.

I also read that Obama has had fewer press conferences than any President in recent times and many fewer impromptu Q&A sessions. I recall us bitching about how few W. had, how he would duck the press. Obama has done soft interviews on shows like "The View." I am totally not impressed with any President -- or any politician -- who does not frequently answer un-vetted questions from the serious press. Obama is criticizing Romney for elitism. Sorry, but staying above the fray like an academic and refusing to take on the rough and tumble of a White House press conference -- that's pretty elitist.

I am honked off with the big man.

[JustJo]

The President certainly wasn't at his best in the first debate, even he knows that, but I don't think it's a problem at all.

Romney spewed so much bs, and the fact-checkers have been having a party ever since, that all he's actually accomplished is to play out plenty of rope for Obama to hang him with.

Pathological liars, and sorry but I do believe Romney is one, lie so frequently and so often that eventually they can't even keep their own lies straight. He's shown us what he really thinks when he believes he's only with his rich, white cohorts in that 47% video. I don't care what he says about it afterwards....that kind of crap sticks in the backs of people's minds and gnaws.

For me, for the first time in my life, I'm voting straight Democratic ticket. Period.