A question for the Femmes

[atomiczombie]

Hi ladies,

I need some advice. I hope this is ok to ask.

I have recently been contemplating dating again. My therapist and some friends and family have all encouraged me to do so. For a long while I was unwilling to even think about it because I have a panic disorder and PTSD for which I am on disability and frankly what I get from my SSI checks every month is paltry. I haven't felt that I am emotionally stable enough to date because of my panic attacks, and not good date/relationship material because I can't work and am basically poor.

That said, I do have a lot going for me in other ways. I am a very kind, compassionate guy. I am have a big heart. I am well mannered, charming, sweet, and I love to goof around. I love to read and learn new things every day. I work on my issues and deal with them honestly. Even though I don't have a lot of money for expensive dates, I do lavish my dates with attention and care. Many people in my life tell me to go out and date again.

That all being said, I recently took a big risk and asked a Femme friend of mine for a date. She rejected me, and the reasons basically have to do with my lack of emotional stability and the fact that I am not financially secure and stable. Man, does that take the wind out of my sails!

So my question is this: Should I even try? Is my PTSD and panic disorder, and my being on disability something that makes me a potentially bad date/partner? Some help and advice would be nice before I decide to really put myself out there again.


Thanks ladies!


Drew

[JustJo]

Hi Drew,

Kudos to you for being courageous enough to put this out here.

So...first....any femme who is rejecting you out of hand over your lack of financial security isn't worth having. Sorry, but that's how I see it. You're a person, not a checkbook or a 401K.

Second, sure...you have issues. Which of us doesn't? The main question, for me, is are you working on it? Or are you wallowing in it? Seems to me like you're working on it...and that deserves respect and consideration.

The date issue...kind of like the checkbook thing...dates are about getting to know the other person, having some fun together, spending some time. An expensive dinner or concert doesn't make it a good date...the connection made does. Any femme worth her salt should be seeing you for you...and not weighing out what you can give her.

Lots of fun things can be done on little or no money....popcorn and a movie at home....picnic in the park....free day at a museum...coffee and talking at a local diner... going for a walk in a pretty part of town...

I say don't give up....just look for a femme with a little more depth and character. I wish you all the best.

[The_Lady_Snow]

It's up to you to put yourself out there, nothing we can say is going to guarantee you a hassle free dating experience.. That's the whole point of dating, you go out, get together, hang out to get to know one another, and if there are differences (such as the monetary one) then you *know* that it isn't gonna pan out for a long term relationship, and that's OK cause you're only dating and seeing who could be a good match.

It's not the Femme's fault or yours for her being honest about things maybe she likes to travel and can only afford herself and not both so therefore she figures this is not going to be a long term for her.

I say keep dating, don't place any expectations on dates other than, maybe you will have a second one if things go well.... Sometimes it may take 10 dates it all depends how quick people get into the nitty gritty of the I want's and must have lists..

Anyways, good luck to ya, dating is a fucking blast!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Ask the butches and guys too? I mean you can't be the only single guy/butch on BFP with this issue, there has to be butches/guys who don't bring in a lot of dough or who have a fixed in come.. I would of asked my bro's how they handle it or handled it when they were/ are dating...

Anyways, it's something we all go through. dating that is..

[macele]

justjo gives great advice.

i'm not femme but i'd like to share this ... bottom line ...
we only need money for health and daily living expenses ...
the rest is a luxury ...
the rest is love.

you are special. you deserve. keep going forward.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by macele

justjo gives great advice.

i'm not femme but i'd like to share this ... bottom line ...
we only need money for health and daily living expenses ...
the rest is a luxury ...
the rest is love.

you are special. you deserve. keep going forward.

I'm gonna be the buzz kill here cause I have to be honest, it's ok to want to have money for other things, like traveling, events, eating out, dancing, a long drive for the weekend. It's ok for ANYONE to say hey, this isn't gonna work because we lead different lives, so no not for all people is money for just living, health for some it's about fun, trips, and dates...

This thread reminds me of your other thread drew

"Femmes: How do you like to be treated on a date?"


Which the whole premise about dating a Femme properly takes money...

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I'm gonna be the buzz kill here cause I have to be honest, it's ok to want to have money for other things, like traveling, events, eating out, dancing, a long drive for the weekend. It's ok for ANYONE to say hey, this isn't gonna work because we lead different lives, so no not for all people is money for just living, health for some it's about fun, trips, and dates...

This thread reminds me of your other thread drew

"Femmes: How do you like to be treated on a date?"


Which the whole premise about dating a Femme properly takes money...

Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.

I wasn't talking about *dating* them I was more opening up the convo for their experiences too since we ALL date regardless of how we identify or our monetary situation.

Anyways, good luck with the dating, I think the more you put yourself out there and the more you date the bigger the chance you will find the right one for you..

Sometimes it takes kissing a lot of froggies before you find your

Good Luck!!

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.

Last year, I "dated" a girl who showered me with things. Flowers, dinners, movies and even surprised me with a cruise. She was generous but everything came with a price tag in the form of "well, I bought you such & such." The breaking point happened when she OPENLY expressed her anger b/c a guy friend of mine was messing with me. Her jealousy cost her what we had and if it had not, the guilt trips about her spending would have.

I am now committed to a college student who works part time while going to school. The time we share is restricted to what we can afford; sometimes he will pay & sometimes I will. If we do not have money to spend, we stay home and we do so happily. Thank God he likes my cooking-lol.

I am an ultra femme in every sense of the term. But, to win me over, you may as well set aside the credit cards. Treat me like a lady-carry my things to the car so I do not have to; make sure the trash is taken out; help me with my coat and shoes. The best things anyone can do for me are pampering me-foot massages, brushing my hair, touching me sweetly "just because."

Clean house for me-I would love that. Watch the kids so I can crash early if I have a headache. Make my life easier and you have done more for me than any expensive trinket can.

[mariamma]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.

Then I must not be a femme. Love, respect, honesty and a sex drive are my top needs. And proximity. If someone needs to be pampered and taken care of, then her being honest about her needs is good.
As for the other thing, I'm a nurse and would not know what to do if my lover had a panic attack. Mostly because it's an individual thing. I do know that I can learn and work with a friend/lover who was prone to panic attacks. If that's a deal breaker for her, then again, good thing she is being honest.
Personally, I have given up on looking for love. I'm poor, have 3 kids, am missing teeth and most importantly...I am too much for all my ex'es. Yes, their pivotal relationships are with me. Yes, I break up with them (except my first gf and bf) because they regress. Yes, there was love but it turned bitter and I can't tolerate them anymore. I love deep and hard. Maybe it's better that I not love randomly.
You feel like you want more and maybe you're ready for love or companionship. If this is the case, wait for a serious love who can be with you without $$$ and understands how to relate with you and what you need from her when you're panicking. Wait for what you need in your life.

[Passionaria]

Hey Drew,
What comes to my mind reading your post is do "you" feel ready? In your heart are you feeling strong enough to surf the waves of dating? Weather it goes well or leads to more, can you feel OK inside yourself at this time with what ever happens?

Rather than making official dates, maybe a gentler approach could be establishing close intimate friendships with femmes that you want to know better, and let it unfold naturally. Go dutch and have fun and get your social feet planted again. That's where it all starts anyway. Baby steps?

From what I have seen (and forgive me here) there are a lot of people "out there" who probably shouldn't be dating for one emotional reason or another. The fact that you are capable of honest introspection and questioning says a lot in your favor, to me.

hugz~

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Passionaria

Hey Drew,
What comes to my mind reading your post is do "you" feel ready? In your heart are you feeling strong enough to surf the waves of dating? Weather it goes well or leads to more, can you feel OK inside yourself at this time with what ever happens?

Rather than making official dates, maybe a gentler approach could be establishing close intimate friendships with femmes that you want to know better, and let it unfold naturally. Go dutch and have fun and get your social feet planted again. That's where it all starts anyway. Baby steps?

From what I have seen (and forgive me here) there are a lot of people "out there" who probably shouldn't be dating for one emotional reason or another. The fact that you are capable of honest introspection and questioning says a lot in your favor, to me.

hugz~

Thank you. I just want to date and meet people. I have just not been sure if I am someone that Femmes would find datable given my issues, hence this thread. Thanks for the encouragement!

[SuddenlyWestFemme]

Originally Posted by Passionaria

Hey Drew,
What comes to my mind reading your post is do "you" feel ready? In your heart are you feeling strong enough to surf the waves of dating? Weather it goes well or leads to more, can you feel OK inside yourself at this time with what ever happens?

I think this is great advice. And something to reevaluate after a date or two as well. I have been single for over a year and during that time I stepped into the dating pool twice thinking I was ready. Low and behold after a couple of dates, I realized I was so NOT ready. But I wouldn't have known that I wasn't ready if I hadn't stepped into dating. So go for it and then evaluate how you are feeling around the whole thing.

And please don't worry too much about how Femmes will perceive you or what we will want from you - we all want different things. Some want financial security in a partner others want someone who can make them laugh regardless of income. Some are drawn to those who have emotionally hard times and some want to date those who have been through their ups and downs but are at a pretty even place. There is just no way to tell until you start dating. There was a time when financial security in a partner was important to me. I didn't have faith that I could be the primary breadwinner and I didn't want to raise my kids poor since that is how I grew up. But now I am the main breadwinner for me and my kids so that is less important. I know that I can do it on my own and I can't travel much anyway as I have kids in school so it is just less important. I am the same person, but my desires have changed. Make sense?

Go out and have fun if you are ready and can handle the rejection that inevitable comes along with dating (that is truly the hardest thing not to take personally, but it is rarely personal!). And remember that a few rejections doesn't mean that is all there is out there (another hard thing to do!).

Kind regards,
SuddenlyWest

[Gráinne]

First, I agree that judging someone on their money or lack thereof is a poor excuse to turn down a date. There are so many free things to do, that's no excuse.

Not to defend this woman's actions, but perhaps she was afraid of what would happen if you had an attack with her? Are you on treatment to prevent them? I could see her point, that it would be like dating someone with uncontrolled seizures, and she did not want to attempt that. Emotional volatility can put some off. And you say she's a friend, maybe that was just saying "I don't want to date a friend". I wouldn't come right out and condemn her, even if her turn-down was ham handed.

All that said, keep putting yourself out there and you'll have dates where those issues don't matter.

[Semantics]

I was typing out a reply similar to Jo's so I'll second hers but I want to add something: I wouldn't place someone who receives SSI in the same category as someone who is unemployed due to lack of motivation in life. I also wouldn't judge someone with a mental health diagnosis any more than I would someone with a physical disability.

You're honest about the difficulties you face in life, which is admirable because not everyone is. Some people value that much higher than how much money someone makes or how comfortable they feel in a crowd.

I'm sure it was difficult to finally take the risk and have the first person you asked out reinforce all of your own insecurities about yourself (and I hope you two are still friends, because I can respect her honesty, as well), but I think if it's something you want you should keep trying.

Good luck on your adventures!

[princessbelle]

Lots of good advice and i'll add my humble 2 cents.

I say, as well as others here, go for it. Having money or not having money is not of consequence to a lot people. To some it is.

My only advice would be.....be upfront about it. Not like the first date exactly, but early on IF there are feelings that can be groomed. It does sound like you are doing that, just wanted to make sure.

I'm with the ones that say money does matter, but only if you are led to believe one thing and then find out it's a whole other ballgame once you get going. I, personally would not stay in a relationship where i was the only one working and paying for everything. Or where we both had an income and still i was the only one paying for everything. I just wouldn't. Everyone has their own opinion, I'm just being honest. But, again, sounds like you do have some income so it's probably not the case.

As was said in another thread along these lines, if something happens to my partner WHILE we are together, that's different. Hopefully, we would have a second plan and some savings. I wouldn't leave them, i'm not that much of a hard ass.

Like Snowy said, some people like to travel and do things that cost some small change. It could be as simple as different ways of life. But, if you are open at the beginning about money AND about your emotional status...it will save heartache down the road for everyone involved.

Honesty is always the best policy....

You will find her.

Good luck to you.

[*Anya*]

As Jo previously stated, a lot, for me; has to do with insight. Does the person I am dating know that they have issues and are they actively doing self-examination and "doing the work" to get a handle on it? Are they basic issues that many of us deal with? Are they stable on medication? Is it a major mental illness?

A few months ago, a butch on a dating site sent me an email and shared with me her history of Bipolar disorder, personality disorder and multiple psychiatric hospitalizations. I appreciated the honesty but for me, that situation was way more than I felt that I wanted to deal with. I needed to nicely state that I did not think I would be able to give her what she needed.

For a first date, I would not want to know all about someone's emotional and financial situation. At that stage, you are looking to see if you have things in common, can communicate and have chemistry. Full disclosure comes once you know that those things in place.

On a first date, fun and conversation is the primary objective. It does not cost a lot of money to have fun!

She may ask you what you do for a living. It is ok to simply state on that first date, "I am a carpenter by trade but am currently not working". If she asks for additional information, you can answer honestly to your comfort level but don't bombard her with every last detail. You can always be direct: "Is that a problem for you?". It is better to know for sure, than to need to guess.

I was scared to death when I first started dating again but it was the best thing I had done for myself in years. I also was rejected once when I first started dating and had made the first move. Luckily, I did not let it deter me and I gamely plugged along and am very happy now.

Best of luck

[sanee66]

HI there,
Well, being femme and having been in a similiar situation before with a partner who did not make a lot of money (self employed and worked when she wanted to, also subject to panic attacks) I thought I would give my two cents.
This relationship worked really well cause we complimented each other in areas where the other was weak. I worked full time, she took care of the house, yard and kid, basically a stay at home dad.

I dont need much to make me happy, someone that listens, and understands and knows when I need space and when i need held. To me this is more important that what one might be able to buy. Had a gf once that was forever buying me jewelry, which I never wore before. The best times I have ever had going out was just sitting by a lake, walking through the woods, country cruisin and nibblin finger foods. Some of the best gifts I haved gotten were just little notes that were hidden where I would find them.

If there are issues that need working on, it definitely sounds like you are doing so and I applaud you for that. I know many people that will never take that step and I think they may suffer for it.

Now for the long term pic. Since I am one of the many people only two checks away from being homeless, the only thing that matters to me in monetary terms is that who ever I may be with contribute what they can without blowing everything they make on just the things they want and expecting me to pay for everything. If issues arise, I would want to talk it out and try to find a solution with my partner.

I think you were great in taking that first step and I hope you don't let this make you run and never try again. You sound very nice and I wish you all the best.

[CherylNYC]

I have to chime in because I detect a whiff of sexism here. Would a femme woman ask whether she should simply not date at all because she's living on disability and can't afford to take her dates out or buy nice things for them? I think not. I wish there wasn't a presumption that the male/masculine partner is supposed to foot the dating bill. I honestly thought we laid that to rest in the 1970s! Silly me.

I work and make enough money to support myself. If I met someone I liked I wouldn't be particularly concerned if their income was far smaller than mine, as long as they were living within their means and they were not a deadbeat who simply refused to work. Yes, disability income is usually quite low, but many people live on SSI. I wouldn't rule them out of my dating pool because the pool is already very, VERY small! And as Dapper pointed out, SSI is a steady, reliable income.

As for PTSD, many of us live with this disorder. I would rule out an active drug addict or alcoholic. I would rule out an abusive person, or a mean one. PTSD wouldn't keep me away as long as it's managed. That said, one of my criteria for dating is that my potential dates should be less crazy than me. My late gf didn't exactly fit that criteria, so I obviously didn't take my rule very seriously. The way Caren was able to live honourably with the affects of her traumatic history made me respect her more every day. Her grace and forgiving nature were gifts that continue to inspire me.

Of course most of us who are dating have some idealised perfect person that we fantasize about. Well, that person just doesn't exist. We all have quirky/disfunctional/difficult traits. We all have outright character flaws. We all have histories that make us who we are. Just keep looking and you'll find women who will be happy to know you exactly as you are.

[uniquetobeme]

Making friends is a good way to ease back into dating and you may meet some neat people. It takes a lot of the pressure off. Believe in yourself and take things a day at a time. I believe everything happens for a reason and you'll meet that someone special when the time is right. In my experience, the best loves of my life have come out of the blue in the most unexpected ways. I think, sometimes, life gives us what we need when we need it.
Don't give up, somewhere there is a lovely lady waiting for someone just like you, and you won't find her if you give up.