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Old 09-27-2012, 03:45 PM   #121
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Once I was told by someone they couldnt see a short butch being sexy,she was 6 ft in bare feet next to my 5' 4" in shoes.All I can say if thats how some folks feel,to bad they missed the boat.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:47 PM   #122
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Great thread. I'll just say that what some may find undesirable I may find completely captivating. So the question of the hour for me is what defines ugly or not pretty or not handsome? How many times have you been sitting there with your best friend, people watching, and you go "OOOOOOO NICE" and you get that "You're kidding right?"

Lots of factors influence attraction for me, including the physical look. But I'd like to think that there is no ugly only different definitions of "attractive".

The media really does on a number on us when it comes defining beauty and it's just downright disturbing to see what it can do to one's psyche.

Just my two cents...

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great two cents!

agreed! the media brainwashes us into thinking this person is sexy or that person is not and so we consume and avoid those things we think will put us half an inch closer to what is favored at the moment. kings and queens used to do similar things by wearing certain fashions or adopting certain habits. we're such imitators that when some queen or other happened to admire pregnancy women's fashions changed in order that their skirts could be gathered up and looped over a belt to create the illusion of weight near the belly. (cant remember who - will run off and look when i'm done posting)


i like your idea that we shouldnt indugle "ugly" so much and, instead, think of it as "different definitions of attractive". normally, as a homely chick, i'd roll my eyes a little at the idea of adding another compassionate saying to the list of things we tell homely kids when they hit puberty ("you're beautiful to me", "you're just going through a phase", "you have a great personality") BUT i actually agree with you on this one because YES it has happened that i'll say, "look at that cute sweater" and my friends will say "huh? what? where? oh no you dont!" (jerks) so i dont think you're missing the mark at all!
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:49 PM   #123
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Beleave me she wished she hadnt said that,I was a wolf on the prowl that night and had all kinds of sweet ladies on my arm as well as the dance floor...if ya got it rock it..no pun intended.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:02 PM   #124
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Once I was told by someone they couldnt see a short butch being sexy,she was 6 ft in bare feet next to my 5' 4" in shoes.All I can say if thats how some folks feel,to bad they missed the boat.
that is so assinine. the person who rocks my world as the best lover of all time is several inches shorter than i am. i'm also hella tits and ass and tend to outweigh the people i date if they happen to be shorter than i am. i constantly smiled at the people i could see comparing us physically because they always ended up looking at my lover with a "damn you must be some hot shit to be able to handle her" look on their faces. it made me oddly proud. (and they were right....hot shit indeed)
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:11 AM   #125
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I have been attracted physically and sexually but that lasts about an hour and then what? If I can't talk to you, I will never fall in love with you.

Brains, brains, brains and more brains.

Intellect and ability to stimulate my mind comes first and my body will follow...
see, i couldnt agree more with you about the ability to stimulate my intellect being the first thing i need for actual, rooted attraction. i've never, and i do mean NEVER, had a long lasting crush on someone who was merely attractive. in fact, i havent had a short term crush on someone who was merely attractive since puberty. it just doesnt phase me that much when someone is externally beautiful. so i wonder, am i less motivated by the beautiful people because i am not one of them?

by no means do i think that people who are physically attractive are also shallow and will only choose to be with people who are also physically attractive. (and again, that's a relative thing anyway.) BUT, is it possible that when you come up in life knowing that you're not what your culture dictates is attractive, do you automatically have a tendency to see past that sort of thing. of course, the supposedly "unattractive" person can be just as shallow as anyone else but it begs the question, do i look past "beauty" automatically because it was ingrained in me not to give any consideration to the fact that i was not beautiful myself?
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:31 AM   #126
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One of the most beautiful women I have ever been with had had 3rd degree burn marks over 75% of her body and no she is not on this site. Her personality, good heart, and her intelligence , the way she treated me , my animals and my family is what made her beautiful. Yes the only ex I really care to be in contact with.
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:40 AM   #127
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bumping the question:

are we more likely to look past the physical if we believe that we, ourselves, are not physically attractive?

follow up thought:

i'm what my grandfather called "a fine, big girl". he meant it as a compliment and i took it as one. as a teen, any time someone said "there's a skinny girl inside of you, just waiting to come out" my response was always something like, "i know. i just ate her." i never cared that i was luscious until someone else suggested that i was a less than entity because of it.

the media interpretation of "beauty" aside, what defines your opinion of your own physical attractiveness?

did you compare yourself to others while you were growing up and, if so, whom? and why?

why are we more fascinated by and disparaging of the weight of some brilliant actress, like Gabourey Sidibe, than we are with say Jorge Garcia who gets more recognition on the street? (no offense Jorge but i didnt see a single episode of Lost)

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Old 10-15-2012, 08:32 PM   #128
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bumping the question:

are we more likely to look past the physical if we believe that we, ourselves, are not physically attractive?

follow up thought:

i'm what my grandfather called "a fine, big girl". he meant it as a compliment and i took it as one. as a teen, any time someone said "there's a skinny girl inside of you, just waiting to come out" my response was always something like, "i know. i just ate her." i never cared that i was luscious until someone else suggested that i was a less than entity because of it.

the media interpretation of "beauty" aside, what defines your opinion of your own physical attractiveness?

did you compare yourself to others while you were growing up and, if so, whom? and why?

why are we more fascinated by and disparaging of the weight of some brilliant actress, like Gabourey Sidibe, than we are with say Jorge Garcia who gets more recognition on the street? (no offense Jorge but i didnt see a single episode of Lost)

I'll bite, but probably poorly

I never thought I was beautiful growing up. When it came time to date (infrequently), it's not so much that I looked past physical beauty as I ruled out anyone attractive as being way out of my league.

Now, today, I know the problem wasn't my looks, it was that I had so little self-esteem that not only did I rule out very attractive people, but I attracted people who were ugly on the inside. Either they didn't k now how to love themselves and had just as poor self-esteem as I did, or they were cruel and shut down inside. Either way, they couldn't love me. I didn't love me, so I attracted what I thought I deserved. I believe now that who we hang with reflect who we think we are.

Today I'm much heavier than I was then, but I actually find myself far more attractive now than back then. While I do enjoy movement for the purely vain reason of my appearance when I've done it for awhile, and I do naturally take care of my clothes and hair (nails, we're getting there), what seems to define my own physical attractiveness to myself is if I'm happy with my life and engaging in growing and changing, not just existing. I know that sounds really Pollyannish, and maybe I'm not expressing myself well. I can have the same hair, the same body and wear the same clothes, but on days when I'm mentally "on", I feel like Sex Queen of the Universe. That's not to say that taking care of the outside doesn't feel splendid; it's that from the inside, it's...sexier? Lord, I sound vain .

When I was a preteen, getting ready for puberty, I remember sneaking into my friend's garage with her and looking through her dad's Playboys. That's what I wanted to look like! Flat, taught stomachs and a good perky set above. I think this was way before airbrushing, and so those women may have actually been very realistic. My dad had a book of classic WWII pinups, and I loved to practice posing like Betty Grable in her bathing suit, or Rita Hayworth on her bed. I loved sensuality. Why? Again, I had little confidence in myself and hoped to heck I would grow taller so I could at least reach this standard I'd set in my head.

I have found in celebrity magazines that are aimed at women, that we're far more critical of other women than of men. We have "who wore it better?" and "best and worst beach bodies", all mainly women. We as a culture seem to judge women by what they wear and how they look, and men by their accomplishments. You hear of some actor's latest project and their work, but it's always about Jessica Simpson's weight.

I know that self-love and acceptance is lifelong for me, but I've come a long way from that. Part of it was when I was a life model in college, and far from thin, yet I felt like a Botticelli model . And that was just me, not pushing up anything or cramming anything into submission . I can say that there are times (and they are growing), when I can look in the mirror and say "You're actually kind of pretty". I want to be all about the positive now, while flattering the faults.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:08 PM   #129
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I will admit, without shame, that what catches My eye is someones overall appearance and demeanor, initially.

However, this attraction will dissipate very quickly if she doesn't poses other, more important traits that I look for. Intelligence, kindness, grace, humor, loyalty, open mindedness, drive, and humanity are keys to keeping Me engaged.

Understand that I don't just expect those things from her, I also expect them from Myself...I must be willing to offer those (what I see as attractive traits) to expect them in return.

So, no shame...just truth.

Thanks for the thought provoking thread...


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Old 10-15-2012, 09:16 PM   #130
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Default Great topic....

I notice attractiveness first....can't deny it...eyes, hair, tits, femininity....BUT, if there is disturst, or i feel any sort of uncomfortable feeling at all...then I step back & address that inside myself.......I believe there are people out there who "look" the part & fall VERY sort of damn near even being classified as human.....lol....but, I really want to get to know someone from now on. I want honesty....don't be who you think I want you to be...be who you really are & we'll take it from there......there's always room for friendships....always !
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:09 AM   #131
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as a woman who has never been attractive, i always wonder what people see when they look at me. and then i back up on that thought because there are times when i really dont want to know. there are also times when what people see (or think) when they see me is clearly visible in their expressions.

my father used to tell me (when i would cry about being unattractive) that there was nothing anyone could do to make me feel better about the way i looked except me. to this day i agree with him, but i still havent managed to feel any better about the way i look. what i've managed to do is tell myself "at least i know that when i'm appreciated by someone it's for something more significant than physical attractiveness." my father also used to say something like 'the way you make other people feel is what they'll see when they look at you.' it's a sobering memory today, 35 years later, when i look back on a life not necessarily well lived. there arent that many people who will 'see' something bad when they think about how i make them feel but there are some and that's kind of disturbing because i hate the idea of making people feel badly. or maybe it's my ego that hates the idea. regardless, i take comfort in my only saving grace ---> knowing that i didnt put effort into making someone feel badly on purpose.

when i think of how my physical attractiveness (or lack thereof) has changed over the years i realize that with age i have come to appreciate more about myself physically, while at the same time bemoaning the fact that what i have the maturity to appreciate now is being ravaged by gravity. (translation: i dislike seeing my mother looking back at me when i look in the mirror) but mostly because i dont want to look like anyone else. i want to look like me. (ok. i wouldnt mind looking like Adele for a week ----- just sayin') i'm more able to appreciate a lot of things about myself now, certainly more than i could appreciate 10, 20, 30 years ago when my age automatically gave me a leg up on the cultural attractiveness scale. now that i'm close to 50 i keep crossing my fingers that old and quirky looking fat girls will be "in" soon. i'd like to see women like me be the definition of beauty according to cultural standards, just once. or maybe, just maybe, it's time for a new culture.

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Old 10-16-2012, 01:11 PM   #132
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I am attracted, at least initially, by looks.

However, it's difficult for me to articulate that in any meaningful way as, for me, I don't have a defined "type". I tend to be physically attracted to only a small proportion of women. However, other than that they look on the feminine side of the scale, they could be large, small, dark haired, blonde, curvy or less curvy. Therefore, my initial attraction seems rather sporadic and random. Quite why I'm initially attracted to one person rather than another I'm not sure.

As regards making it meaningful. I don't need intelligence - at least not in any sort of academic way. In fact, it can be a turn-off to me. Such people often try my patience. However, I do need intelligence in a broader, common sense manner and, more so, the person needs to be reasonably aware of the world around them (whether we agree on what should be done about the burning issues of the day or not; inevitably, we don't).

Personality-wise, at least for me, opposites attract. I'm rather dour, conservative, staunch, judgemental and incredibly guttural. I find that I am attracted to much lighter, more fun-loving personalities. Also, my ideal partner has that blend of strength and vulnerability. Interestingly, whilst I'd usually see them as positive traits, those I'm attracted to are not necessarily nice or kind.

Attraction is a combination of the above for me and sometimes, though not too often, it comes together in a package. I don't have many absolutes
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:32 PM   #133
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I am attracted, at least initially, by looks.

However, it's difficult for me to articulate that in any meaningful way as, for me, I don't have a defined "type". I tend to be physically attracted to only a small proportion of women. However, other than that they look on the feminine side of the scale, they could be large, small, dark haired, blonde, curvy or less curvy. Therefore, my initial attraction seems rather sporadic and random. Quite why I'm initially attracted to one person rather than another I'm not sure.

As regards making it meaningful. I don't need intelligence - at least not in any sort of academic way. In fact, it can be a turn-off to me. Such people often try my patience. However, I do need intelligence in a broader, common sense manner and, more so, the person needs to be reasonably aware of the world around them (whether we agree on what should be done about the burning issues of the day or not; inevitably, we don't).

Personality-wise, at least for me, opposites attract. I'm rather dour, conservative, staunch, judgemental and incredibly guttural. I find that I am attracted to much lighter, more fun-loving personalities. Also, my ideal partner has that blend of strength and vulnerability. Interestingly, whilst I'd usually see them as positive traits, those I'm attracted to are not necessarily nice or kind.

Attraction is a combination of the above for me and sometimes, though not too often, it comes together in a package. I don't have many absolutes
Now I realize I forgot to answer the original question , which was "what attracts you, and why?"

Short answer: I have no idea. It's so very random.

Long answer (and you knew it was coming):

Looks: When I first came out, I had no idea of the butch-femme community, but interestingly, my first partner was a more masculine-looking woman (although she did not call herself butch). I find many of my feminine-looking friends wildly beautiful, but it doesn't translate into a sexual attraction for them (they're mostly straight :P).

I guess as the process of coming out proceeded, and I found a "niche" in b-f, then gradually an attraction to ever more masculine looks and energy emerged. But within that caveat, there's no preference as to size or hair. I like taller than me, but the world is taller than I am. Other than that, I've no rhyme or reason.

Intelligence (since this seems a big one): I too have found that many very book-smart people are insufferable know-it-alls, and I hope never to be one. There's nothing wrong with book smarts in itself, but arrogance turns me right off like a faucet. I have also known superbly book-smart people who are cultural and world-events dummies.

I like a broad spectrum of topics to talk about, without feeling like someone is "talking down" at me. I'm no expert in politics in America, let alone any other country, but someone willing to discuss things and help me "fill in the blanks" is very attractive.

I don't want a carbon-copy of myself with regards to interests, but I want interests beyond trash TV and celebrities in tabloids. Ask me obscure questions or questions that make me think, and I'm right there . Whether or not I've met you in person, I need to sense strong general intelligence and down-to-earthness for attraction to happen. This is not the same as an intellectual snob.

Personality: I like a wry sense of humor. I need someone who can make me laugh, and who can take good-natured banter. I'm actually drawn to more serious people than myself. I think that counterpart grounds me and is calming. I'm attracted to someone who's allergic to drama and who is a steadying influence to my emotionality. That said, I need someone who is actually aware of their emotions, not shut down. I need some sense of vulnerability, of softness. Gentleness.

Every time I try to define my type, though, it just doesn't work. Who knows?
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:10 PM   #134
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What attracts me to someone is a hard thing to put a finger on.sometimes its the wild woman who trpis my switch or the sly wishful look with a cute smile that makes me wonder if she is so much the little girl,or the woman who is on a power play..they need to be carefull because I have and will bite.What really helps is dont be afraid to look me in the eyes,talk to me about anything cause im a reader and deep thinker a poet and ex wild child that finely lerned to be human...sorta.I do have souther gentle ways learned from a long line of southern gentle people.Now on the other hand I really don't have any idea what people see when they look at me,sometimes I would like to be able to look though theire eyes and see for my self.

Last edited by Rockinonahigh; 10-16-2012 at 03:20 PM. Reason: Edit
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:58 PM   #135
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Hmm great topic. For me I would love to say that physical attraction is not important but I would be lying. Of course the first initial attraction is typically physical for me but with time what will hold my attraction is intellectual stimulation and emotional maturity.

I found the hard way that while looks are a great quality if a person does not possess the emotional or mental/intellectually qualities I value and need then they don't look so physically attractive any longer. Same goes on the flip side. I have met folks who I was not initially physically attracted to but as time progressed and I got to know them and we connected on an intellectual level they became very physically attractive to me.

I can't say one outweighs another for me but I can say it needs to be balanced in order for my attraction to remain. I am one of those people that once I see something that is unattractive I am immediately not interested. Perhaps it is not fair but it is the way I am.
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:03 PM   #136
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Default blinded by the light........

What is attractive to me is their energy. The zap I get when someone enters a room, be it in person or even in chat. This works both ways, positive as well as negative. I am however human and physical attraction does have a part, but definitely lower on the scale. Things such as how she speaks, choices of words, tone, what she does not say is equally important. Without having a direct window into her inner self, there are attractions I feel from her just being her. Be that she is in a tool belt...or tu-tu. Although if I were to say observations of her are a huge factor, those observations have nary a thing to do with what she looks like. It has everything to do with her emotions and how she manages them. Her energy.........will make me *swoon* so c'mon.......zap me Baby!!
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:01 PM   #137
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It is ALL about a strong foundation.
You can attract me by your looks in a head turn but inside over time become ugly.
If we share a friendship first. Then a foundation that includes communication, trust, respect, loyality... and a spiritual connection, it is likely to become a lasting attraction.
The entire package.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:04 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeminineAllure View Post
It is ALL about a strong foundation.
You can attract me by your looks in a head turn but inside over time become ugly.
If we share a friendship first. Then a foundation that includes communication, trust, respect, loyality... and a spiritual connection, it is likely to become a lasting attraction.
The entire package.
Absolutely..the entire package...& that takes time to truly "see" & appreciate...or not.....great post Allure.....as always..<smile>....
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:18 PM   #139
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you know, i'm just not turned on by looks. oh sure, a brief well hello there (fan)moment over a celeb or something from time to time but it doesnt bunch my panties on even a superficial personal level. now if someone is intelligent and funny and has that naturally dominant toppish energy that makes them cocky and charming and flirtatious then my knickers get twisted. confidence is sexy to the Nth degree and i hate --- also to the Nth degree --- when someone fakes it and i find out later that they dont really own it and they cant really bring it and they've been looking to me as their source for ego. i want the A-game, all day, every day, easy breezy beautiful because i'm worth it --- again, to the Nth degree i'm worth it, and i'm ready to prove it if you can prove that you can handle me and i'm a damn handful so put on your fireproof boxers. yes you can have an off day. yes you can ask my opinion, my advice, for my support and to be left off a pedestal. but if you're doing the role rather than being the person i'm vehemently not interested so dont pretend and dont medicate your lack of self esteem with me. i fall all over the place for natural authority. quiet, balanced, thoughtful, firm, not forced, unpretentious, still able to laugh at yourself, generous authority. i'm proverbially verklempt over it and you either have it with me or you dont. no insult, no fuss, no muss, it's just there or it isnt. i've been known to gravitate toward it in friends and acquaintance from time to time and even have a couple of role models on the Planet that embody that energy to the core. call it chemistry if you like. all i know is when you have it, i begin to think of you as You. i like that in my life. i like it a lot.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:26 AM   #140
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And the $64,000 question...Why do we feel attraction for someone in the first place? And why does it so often go against our "type"?

I mean, take this thread and somewhere, there's a "love list" thread, in which myself and other people have tried to describe ideal partners and the "type" we say we're attracted to. But many, if not most, of us have been fixed up with someone who seemed to have everything on the list and on paper, sounded perfect...but there's no chemistry, no "heat" when you meet. You know what I'm talking about.

And the opposite is true, and chemistry makes a sneak attack, unexpected. Sometimes, that person is a big flapping red flag with feet, and sometimes it really does turn out that they have the qualities which you seek. I personally believe "heat" is obviously a lot of fun, but real compatibility takes time to ferret out.

But that's the maddening part. Wouldn't it save a lot of grief and time if we only felt chemistry with someone suitable? But we're complex people and life just isn't that simple.

I suppose that's just a rhetorical question. We can list and list all we want, but sometimes it's a big mystery.
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