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Old 10-17-2012, 05:46 PM   #201
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I think it just depends on how long the break has been and the type of relationship.

my detached wife was with the woman she ran off with and trying to regain my friendship. I think they'd be a little more conservative with their affection around me for a bit. They do it now.

when I didn't show any PDA in front of my detached wife with the new date... it was because of their... awkward previous knowing each other, my detached wife having massive difficulty I'd be screwing someone in the house later that night, and we'd all be meeting in passing, *at* the house as well as X was not into PDA at all. unless she'd had a couple of beer. Then it would just be an arm around my waist.

heh. or a shag in the loo, but that's not PDA exactly is it...
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:48 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by spritzerJ View Post
Well color me socially blundered. I guess I am just not classy.... Ugh. I didn't stick my tongue down hys throat or hump hys leg... still I did enjoy that we were new in our relationship, hanging out socially and together. I guess it wasn't that bad of a social blunder. We all still get along.
You are not socially blundered at all.

Everyone has their own way in how they handle situations. Your relationship with your sweetheart is between you and him not between you him the ex and who ever else wants to put their nose in your business.

Here is a thought If Spritzer gives consideration to the ex in such a case where as she withholds hand holding kissing etc does this not put Stoney in a weird awkward kinda position? Would this not be for Spritzer and Stoney to then determine how they will be as a couple in social settings?? Personally I believe it is.

Also in the above does Spritzer not deserve consideration as Stoney's partner? I think she does....

respect in my opinion you give and receive...

I love love love excellent dialogue...

Hugs to you Spritz and when do you want my address lol Id love some jam
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:50 PM   #203
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Well color me socially blundered. I guess I am just not classy.... Ugh. I didn't stick my tongue down hys throat or hump hys leg... still I did enjoy that we were new in our relationship, hanging out socially and together. I guess it wasn't that bad of a social blunder. We all still get along.
No way, I don't believe in these hard and fast rules. As was said, it's best to use your intuition and common sense. You might ask her sometime if you're friends with her too...but really, if you sense that she's fine with it then you're not doing anything wrong. It would be perfectly clear if I was uncomfortable with the display of affection.... and I would be, but not everyone is like me. If she's keeping it to herself then she's the one to blame. You're not a mind reader.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:59 PM   #204
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Hmm.

We all get to decide what feels comfortable to us in friendships. I don't feel the need to judge how other people do friendships except when their friendship is with me. In that case, I get to have boundaries around what I accept in my orbit just as the other person does.

I cut a Femme out of my life for repeatedly choosing dick over being honest and authentic with me and some of her other Femme sisters.
I don't think fucking, fucking lots of people, or even fucking in ways that make other people uncomfortable makes anyone a bad person. I think we all get to do sexually what makes us feel awesome.

What I don't accept in my friendship orbit (and I'm talking about that one where the women around me have specific intimate access to me in ways that casual folks do not) is behavior that is inauthentic or dishonest. (that goes for any gender as well)

IF this manifests itself with a Femme sister doing really shitty stuff like violating other people's relationship boundaries, saying and doing highly inappropriate things around other people's partners, seeking attention from persons who are partnered monogamously in gross ways, and stepping on the back of other friends to get some sexytime, I am almost always going to cut them loose. This will, of course, come after me having a direct conversation with them (probably many) about their behavior and after the point where I feel like they aren't interested in making changes or being more aware.

I'm speaking about Femme sisters here since this is the vein that we have been discussing but this goes for anyone of any gender behaving this way.

That's not necessarily a "code" to me but I will point back to several conversations about a "Femme's Femme" and a "Butch's Femme".

I feel like there are several levels of conversation going on here and I feel like some of us have very different ideas about what kind of behavior we want from our friends or the behavior that we think is ok. And all of that is absolutely ok. It's what makes us a diverse and unique community of people.

From my me place, my girls are all the type of women that I would trust to sleep naked in bed next to my Butch and I would never blink an eye. Not trying to reduce this to sex, because it's not about sex for me. It's about a deep and abiding level of trust and respect and it is knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that the women in my life whom I call "Sister" are women worthy of that level of high trust.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:18 PM   #205
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I too am really appreciating the depth and breadth of the dialogue here.

Thank you for helping me sort through the stuff of hanging around exes. It is new for me. I want to be respectful and know that when Stoney and I do go out (in a safe place) we can be ourselves to an appropriate degree. I don't get out much so I do like to have to fun. Getting out as a couple when we can be ourselves is precious time for me.

And I think shagging in the loo is private, in a way and not flaunting. Unless it is noisy and then it isn't really private either and may be flaunting. Then again it could be totally socially appropriate.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:31 PM   #206
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I have to admit the concept of "femme's femme" and "butch's femme" is a bit mind boggling to me. I can't actually wrap my head around either of those concepts.

I know dykes that will shag anything that moves regardless of who's in the way of it. I kind of stick everyone, regardless of sex/gender/sexuality in that same box. I guess because I don't hang out with butch-femme community much, but a very mixed one, I put all horndogs in one box.

People I trust to sleep next to my partner naked? well I think I'd trust my partner? I have to admit I'm really failing to grasp that concept either. I think concepts are just not translating for me. I've become borg!

sorry. the terms are really swishing over my head. And I don't think explaining them are really going to make me understand. I think it comes from context of community. That's ok. I'll just nod. Or quietly sip something and play with some spilled salt on the table. I think I used to understand. somewhere, off in the past fog of my head before the Limeys got me thinkin like them...
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:37 PM   #207
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First: I totally snorted out loud at "horndog"! I freakin' LOVE that!

Thing about trust is that I do trust my partner implicitly. I'd like to have a similar level of trust for my girlfriends. That's all
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:52 PM   #208
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shagging in the loo . . . always socially appropriate
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:35 PM   #209
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i'm with honeybarbara - the first thought i had when thinking about people i'd trust to sleep next to my partner naked was...well, i trust my partner.

i absolutely get the part about honesty and authenticity and that's something i demand of people i have close friendships with as well. it just feels like there are other assumptions happening in this thread that i don't personally understand.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:50 PM   #210
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I am just wondering what it means to "flaunt our relationship" around exes...

I ask because currently Stoney is good friends with hys ex. And when we are all together I am friendly. It isn't awkward or anything. But I don't stop from being my mushy hand holding, sitting close, pecking self when we socializing. Should I? It has been a few years. I honestly wonder if there is some social boundary I should respect.
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I don't think holding hands or sitting close is flaunting...at least not by my standards.

Clearly if you're all getting along, neither you or your partner is doing anything that's pushing hys ex's buttons too badly.
Yes This....what Jo said. Flaunting to me and what i was thinking is something like..........

Two peeps break up and one gets with someone else, and they see her/his ex at the same restaurant...they intentionally go sit by them, talk loud, make it a POINT to annoy, to disrespect, to be "in your face" with the ex. To me that is flaunting. Again, just not classy. Tacky is the word that comes to mind actually.

Sounds like all of you are great friends. Wonderful!!!! Heck my ex husband and his wife are around me a lot. They are mushy with each other sometimes, but not overly so to the point they are doing it to try and hurt me or make a point. (not that it would lol) Just naturally affectionate. There is a difference, IMO.

Everyone has to make their own decisions what is right or wrong. Each situation is different. I can only control myself. Everyone is responsible for their own decisions/reactions/actions. I'm a firm believer that most everything in life is a choice. To each his/her own.


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Old 10-18-2012, 06:35 AM   #211
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Why did you never mention this to his wife, if it was her friendship that you held so dear? Whether she would believe you are not, doesnt really matter... the truth is what is important, and respecting someone in my opinion starts and stays with always being honest with them, no matter how tough the news is to hear and deal with. I figure.. in my little head, that the news of his behavior is going to come out sooner or later, and I personally would rather hear it from someone that i care about, in a private setting that I would feel safe to bawl my eyes out in front of.. than in a public setting with all the embarrassment and eyes and questions from on lookers.. which I am sure it came to light in..
Just curious.
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Back when I was in the straight life I was headed to work one morning when a state trooper car pulled me over,lights flashing sirens blowing to wake the dead.I had no clue why cause I knew I was doing the speed limit and all my lights worked.Low and behold it was a casual friends bio hubby,the dam dick head hit me up for a sexy night out while his wife was staying with her sick mom.I told hime his wifes friendship was worth more to me that a night out with him or anyone and to buzz off.This was a long time before thay had mounted cams and mics in the patrole cars so I really didnt have any proof of this,but I did mention it to my uncle who was a federal marshal the next week this guy was asingned to desk duty untill further notice.I never did mention it to his wife but did find out a long time later he had been doing this for a while with others,it did cost him his badge and job eventualy.
I have a hard and fast rule about dateing my friends exes, even if its someones I casualy know cause I dont want any crap from breakups falling on me or probs with a friendship over said break up.It all comes from respect for myself and my friends.
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:44 AM   #212
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I'm sounding in on this late, but I will say that I am another who goes against the grain.

You can't help who you fall in love with... Things happen.

Now, granted, I am not saying I want my ex to start dating my best friend the day after we split... However, I will say more power to you if it's something true and not a rebound (or finding out that you've already been secretly seeing that person while we were still together).
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:04 AM   #213
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My friend and her girlfriend broke up after a one-year relationship. My friend started going out again a couple of months after the break-up and the woman that she knew and her ex blatantly flirted in front of her at a party. My friend was truly crushed.

I honestly did not know what to say to her (other than to empathize with her feelings) as it would never have been something that I personally would have done. I avoid a friend's (even an acquaintance's) ex out of respect for, lack of a better phrase: femme sisterhood. It just does not feel right to me personally.

What do you feel about this? Is it OK because the couple were broken up? Is there a respectable amount of time that should pass before you, as a femme, flirt with or date a friend's ex in front of another femme sister-even if not you are not close friends?

Does it matter?

Is it different online vs. real life?

Your thoughts?

Okay, I am not a Femme but I do have an opinion on this sort of thing. One of the first things I learned as a Baby Butch in my late teens and early 20's is that your buddies current and/or ex was off limits. Out of respect for your friend and even for her/his ex, it was better to just leave it alone. Maybe in time if you still felt a desire to date her/his ex, you would go to your friend and tell them your intention. It was not asking for permission. It was to be honest with your friend and get an idea as to how far along they were in their healing process or just simply letting go of the ex. If it is clear your friend is still grieving and healing, then it was up to me to make my decision.

Maybe this Old School Butch Code was not in all circles but I know it was part of my group. Did all live by this, no. However, it was clear there could be consequences. The consequences were you hurt someone you care about and/or you might even face some sort of physical fight, smack down.

As for "harmless flirting," sometimes it is harmless and sometimes it is not. I have experienced someone "harmlessly flirting" with my girlfriend in the threads and the next thing I know somehow this harmless flirter is their next butch. (No, not and this site or with regulars that frequent BFP.)

Obviously there was something not working in our relationship. There had to be or else the harmless flirter could not have wormed there way in. My point, flirting can be so much more then harmless.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:07 AM   #214
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---if you are in my circle of friends, I will not date your ex. To me that is like moving from sister to sister. In this life there are some things you just do not do. This is one of them.--------
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:38 AM   #215
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---if you are in my circle of friends, I will not date your ex. To me that is like moving from sister to sister. In this life there are some things you just do not do. This is one of them.--------
My thoughts as well. Thank you Prudence...
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:26 AM   #216
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this is like a loaded question ....
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:36 AM   #217
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If someone wants to date one of my exes, you have my blessing.

I couldn't be happy with them, but who am I to deny their (or your, or any of my femme friends') pursuit of happiness with them.

If I were still in love with any of them, I guess I would feel differently, but I can't know for sure.

One of them, I knew I was over her when I heard she was dating someone and my gut response was a panicked urge to warn and protect the femme from going through what I did.

But that's the only strong reaction I've had, about any of my exes being with someone else.

For the most part, my exes are decent people, just not a good match with me. And there are so few choices out there, IMO, of people who are right for us. I don't want to make the field any more narrow for someone else.

When it comes to making what some would view as inappropriate choices of a lover, I also look with hope at the example of my sister, who fell in love with her neighbor.

She was married and had a toddler and a small child at the time. Couldn't possibly have been messier—not to mention, they had to alert their chief officers in the governments of two countries, because the men worked together in a sort of tricky configuration.

"Bless her heart," said my best gay male friend in his Texan twang. "An international incident."

I agree. I say bless her heart, which she followed.

Because now, 20 years later, instead of having endured with the wrong man, (who I love like a brother, but I understand why she didn't want to remain married to him), she is living with her best friend and lover, and they have the happiest, healthiest relationship I've ever seen, with lots of common interests, flirting, laughing, trust and a strong emotional bond.

If one of my exes if your truly right person, your once-in-a-lifetime chance at happiness, or even if you just want to have some fun with her, I say, Go for it, and again, you have my blessing.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:48 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Prudence View Post
---if you are in my circle of friends, I will not date your ex. To me that is like moving from sister to sister. In this life there are some things you just do not do. This is one of them.--------
My thoughts exactly and expressed so eloquently...
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:10 AM   #219
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One of the reasons it didn't even occur to me, for quite some time, to consider engaging in dating type conversation with Gaige, was because the only way I knew of her, other than her infrequent posts and the handsome photos of her I'd come across and admire in the gallery, was because she had dated someone in my circle of femme acquaintances. I didn't know, or need to know the reasons they were no longer dating. I only knew that they had. When Gaige did approach me, respectfully, for the friendship and conversation that lead to our wonderful romance, enough time had passed that I didn't feel that there was any disrespect in continuing to get to know her.

When I place myself in someone else's shoes, I try to show the utmost kindness and respect for other femme's feelings. I don't think that this means you can never date someone that dated someone you are acquainted with, but I do think that there should be some time that has passed before engaging in that way, out of respect for both parties feelings.

I can tell you, as a friend to another femme, if I knew that my friend was still in love with someone, or was still suffering emotionally over a butch, regardless of the length of time that had passed, it would never occur to me to date the person that she still felt so strongly about.
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