Lesbian Cougar Video--funny or not?

[Jesse]

I thought it was a waste of space myself. It did not speak of intelligence, nor talent and reeked of ignorance and abuse.

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Is this kind of thing really necessary? Why throw in emasculating comments like this? Even if you believe the image is perpetuating something you do not support, stooping to what you believe to be a lower level is not the way to go about changing anything, imo. It perpetuates what appears to be the entire qualm you have with the video. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, as they say.



All satire can be misconstrued as anti- whatever the subject matter happens to be. In some ways, that is part of the reflective point of satire. How many people do you think watched Borat and thought Sacha Baron Cohen was actually perpetuating sexism, racism, homophobia among other subjects he touched upon? The same has happened with nearly every satiric work that has ever come out, and it is because people fail to see the purpose of satire: to hold a mirror up to society, to overexaggerate and therefore make more visible its blatant hypocrisy.

And even if it was not meant as a satire by the original creator (which we still don't know yet, as far as I've seen), there is also the case of inadvertant satire that can function just as well toward that aim. Why not use it in such a manner, consequently stripping it of the power with which you believe it to be endowed?

For those interested, Slavoj Zizek actually talks about how such "jokes" or satires function, and may explain better than I currently am. It's a long clip and I understand most people don't want to get into the whole thing, but his overview of the example joke he uses starts at around 37:00 for those interested (the joke is used to support other arguments in the debate, but the whole debate does not centre around the use of jokes/satire as a tool toward illuminating social hypocrisy, so I don't want anyone to think the whole thing is about such jokes).

I absolutely agree.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Is this kind of thing really necessary? Why throw in emasculating comments like this? Even if you believe the image is perpetuating something you do not support, stooping to what you believe to be a lower level is not the way to go about changing anything, imo. It perpetuates what appears to be the entire qualm you have with the video. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, as they say.



All satire can be misconstrued as anti- whatever the subject matter happens to be. In some ways, that is part of the reflective point of satire. How many people do you think watched Borat and thought Sacha Baron Cohen was actually perpetuating sexism, racism, homophobia among other subjects he touched upon? The same has happened with nearly every satiric work that has ever come out, and it is because people fail to see the purpose of satire: to hold a mirror up to society, to overexaggerate and therefore make more visible its blatant hypocrisy.

And even if it was not meant as a satire by the original creator (which we still don't know yet, as far as I've seen), there is also the case of inadvertant satire that can function just as well toward that aim. Why not use it in such a manner, consequently stripping it of the power with which you believe it to be endowed?

For those interested, Slavoj Zizek actually talks about how such "jokes" or satires function, and may explain better than I currently am. It's a long clip and I understand most people don't want to get into the whole thing, but his overview of the example joke he uses starts at around 37:00 for those interested (the joke is used to support other arguments in the debate, but the whole debate does not centre around the use of jokes/satire as a tool toward illuminating social hypocrisy, so I don't want anyone to think the whole thing is about such jokes).

In order to make good satire you need to know your subject material. These people know nothing about lesbians- it's obvious.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Heart

Replacing 20-something "frat boys" with 40-something "lesbian cougars," and thinking it's satire is really pretty pathetic. I would expect more from Second City.

It's not even the fact that the dykes are made up to look ugly is that stereotypical lesbian manner or that they use a word like "twat," it's that whomever made this so clearly knows nothing about lesbian culture. That's why its not funny.

For christ fucking sake, a lesbian cougar would not go after a drunk straight college girl. A lesbian cougar would go after a hot young packing butch go-go dancer.



ETA: As for the predator thing -- I get why that's disturbing, but I don't think anyone in the clip is supposed to be underage. Young does not equate to child or minor. Let's remember that people with large age differences DO engage in consensual relationships. Part of the problem with the whole "cougar" thing is that it is so totally age-ist - on both ends of the spectrum.

LMAO!!- the packing butch go-go dancer! Good point!

And yes about ageism.... personally, I am uncomfortable with dating someone a lot younger than myself (but I know not to say never about anything), but, absolutely people have adult consensual relationships with many years between them. Its the whole negative judgement thang that bothers me.

[TenderKnight]

OK, maybe this is another one of those times that I need to shut up and listen.. But I wasn't really offended by this video and though it didn't make me laugh, it did get a snort from me.. A "really??" snort.. But then, I'm a sick fucker and find that this is more a play to the stereotype that everyone see's as lesbians then anything else.. Of course, I love Dave Chapel and sometimes I find his stuff pretty damned offensive, but still funny, even if it's wrong..

I don't know.. Again, maybe this is one of those moments when I'm just not seeing the bigger picture..

-Tony

[SuperFemme]

Ender - I get satire. I still didn't like it. I didn't watch Borat, it didn't seem interesting to me.

Which is ok, I have no problem with anyone who does, it's just not for me for the reasons that I mentioned.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by BullDog

In order to make good satire you need to know your subject material. These people know nothing about lesbians- it's obvious.

Except you seem to be missing the point of the satire. The satire itself is not against lesbians, and, therefore, does not need to pretend to show an accurate portrayal of lesbians. The satire, in this case, would be a method of mocking the popular portrayal of lesbians, which is something it does very well. Many here who disagree with me have even made the point that this reflects what seems to be a culture of misrepresenting lesbians for whatever purpose...which would be the whole point of the satire.

The satire does not attempt to show the accurate portrayal of lesbians, because lesbians (and therefore the criticism of lesbians) are not its target. Those who portray lesbians in such a fashion are the target of the satire, and so their misinformed portrayal of lesbians takes the forefront. This, if it were meant as a satire, is classic satiric method. I bold this, because, to me, is the point, and I really don't see how accurate portrayal of lesbians would actually help this be a good satiric work. EDIT: In fact, it would defeat its purpose as a satire.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Except you seem to be missing the point of the satire. The satire itself is not against lesbians, and, therefore, does not need to pretend to show an accurate portrayal of lesbians. The satire, in this case, would be a method of mocking the popular portrayal of lesbians, which is something it does very well. Many here who disagree with me have even made the point that this reflects what seems to be a culture of misrepresenting lesbians for whatever purpose...which would be the whole point of the satire.

The satire does not attempt to show the accurate portrayal of lesbians, because lesbians (and therefore the criticism of lesbians) are not its target. Those who portray lesbians in such a fashion are the target of the satire, and so their misinformed portrayal of lesbians takes the forefront. This, if it were meant as a satire, is classic satiric method. I bold this, because, to me, is the point, and I really don't see how accurate portrayal of lesbians would actually help this be a good satiric work.

Ender I'm a lesbian. Are you? I find it quite irritating that you think you can tell me I'm missing the point.

Lesbian stereotypes are damaging. We've spent months trying to discuss that here. This is irritating.

[suebee]

Maybe they meant to satirize men. Or maybe not. Who cares. Taking advantage of young drunk women - not so funny. At the beginning of the video I thought it had the potential to be hilarious. But they missed the mark. Anybody who finds it a funny satire - that's fine, to each his own. . I just think they missed the mark this try. If I was familiar with the folks that made it maybe I'd be able to say whether it was typical of their sense of humour or not. But as I've already said - taking advangage of a drunk girl is disgusting, and it lost any comedic potential as soon as that happened.

One's sense of comedy is a very personal thing, and the best comedy troupes stretch the limit of what is funny. I wouldn't go as far as to report a video like this. But neither would I be tempted to go out and look for more of them.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Ender I'm a lesbian. Are you? I find it quite irritating that you think you can tell me I'm missing the point.

Lesbian stereotypes are damaging. We've spent months trying to discuss that here. This is irritating.

This is equally irritating for me, because in many respects what you are saying is the entire point of my post.

The satire attempts to highlight the misrepresentations of lesbians in popular contemporary culture. If, again, it was meant as a satire, then it is trying to highlight the fact that those stereotypes still exist and is actually ridiculing their existence.

For example, in Borat, Borat (Cohen, the actor/director, himself is Jewish) says some very anti-semitic things. People claim that it propagates anti-semitism, but that is not the point of the satire. The point is to highlight the continued existance of anti-semitism and, furthermore, to highlight society's hypocrisy; not only because anti-semitism continues to exist, but because so many who laugh at Borat's jokes have likely made anti-semitic comments themselves. It mocks the continued hypocrisy of the populace who continues to perpetuate these misrepresentations and stereotypes.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

This is equally irritating for me, because in many respects what you are saying is the entire point of my post.

The satire attempts to highlight the misrepresentations of lesbians in popular contemporary culture. If, again, it was meant as a satire, then it is trying to highlight the fact that those stereotypes still exist and is actually ridiculing their existence.

For example, in Borat, Borat (Cohen, the actor/director, himself is Jewish) says some very anti-semitic things. People claim that it propagates anti-semitism, but that is not the point of the satire. The point is to highlight the continued existance of anti-semitism and, furthermore, to highlight society's hypocrisy; not only because anti-semitism continues to exist, but because so many who laugh at Borat's jokes have likely made anti-semitic comments themselves. It mocks the continued hypocrisy of the populace who continues to perpetuate these misrepresentations and stereotypes.

I'm done. I don't need you to educate me on satire- particularly when it comes to lesbians.

The video isn't funny to me. The end.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I'm done. I don't need you to educate me on satire- particularly when it comes to lesbians.

The video isn't funny to me. The end.

If you think I'm wrong, explain why instead of telling me not to "educate" you on satire (if you think I'm wrong on it, then by all means feel free to give me its definition according to you), especially when it comes to lesbians (as though satire takes on a different form depending on the group), instead of dismissing me for an unknown reason. I fail to see what is so upsetting when such satire (whether intended or not) may actually criticise popular stereotypes. Why become offended by it when it can be used for so much more?

As for the video not being funny to you, again, very good...because that may very well not be its point. Again, satire: putting a mirror up in front of society.

[Diva]

Ok....what to say, what to say......

I didn't find it funny. Just like I don't find women who flash their drunken breasts at Mardi Gras funny, either. Yeah....for beads? Or frat boys whose goal it is to become so inebriated they do the ridiculous things they do.

That being said, I'm rather ambivalent about it (the video), as I know what is funny to some, won't be to others. And we can pick and choose about what we become enraged over, yes?

Additionally, I'm beginning to feel my age as I find the word 'cougar' more bothersome to me as the years go by....but that's another thread.

[Ebon]

Most satires will always be offensive to someone. I find that when people get the most offended is when they feel like what is being said is true about them or it's something that they don't want to deal with. It was a lame attempt at satire. I don't think that they were saying that lesbians or gay people as a whole are predators. Most of the lesbians that I know would never try to pick up a drunk college girl. Some of them would. Everything is on a person by person basis including what some people find funny and what others find offensive. I've seen things that were far worse than this video, like that dumb girl on The View saying that older women becomes lesbians because they "Couldn't get a man." That is a hell of a lot more dangerous than this stupid video. That's all in my own opinion of course.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Organicbutch

Most satires will always be offensive to someone. I find that when people get the most offended is when they feel like what is being said is true about them or it's something that they don't want to deal with. It was a lame attempt at satire. I don't think that they were saying that lesbians or gay people as a whole are predators. Most of the lesbians that I know would never try to pick up a drunk college girl. Some of them would. Everything is on a person by person basis including what some people find funny and what others find offensive. I've seen things that were far worse than this video, like that dumb girl on The View saying that older women becomes lesbians because they "Couldn't get a man." That is a hell of a lot more dangerous than this stupid video. That's all in my own opinion of course.

I would like to address the above in red.

Help me understand please. I find it offensive and downright ugly to show young drunk girls being taken advantage of. It's not because I have some past issue or because I don't want to look in the mirror, it's because it DOES happen and young women are raped and hurt cause someone thought it funny to spike their drink or get them all drunk so they can get in their pants.

Cause frankly I am trying here I see no humor in that, lesbians or not

[Miss_Tia]

wait..let me mull this over...its ok for them to be satiracal about lesbians, cougars, predation, etc but its wrong for me to be offended?

and FYI, HOW I said it is perfectly in line with how they will understand it. It takes the politeness out of the discourse. When it comes to rape, I dont need to be polite.

I am fascinated that you think you can come in and ask me was this really necessary. Obviously. Or I wouldnt have said it...


[QUOTE=EnderD_503;166381]Is this kind of thing really necessary? Why throw in emasculating comments like this? Even if you believe the image is perpetuating something you do not support, stooping to what you believe to be a lower level is not the way to go about changing anything, imo. It perpetuates what appears to be the entire qualm you have with the video. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, as they say.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I would like to address the above in red.

Help me understand please. I find it offensive and downright ugly to show young drunk girls being taken advantage of. It's not because I have some past issue or because I don't want to look in the mirror, it's because it DOES happen and young women are raped and hurt cause someone thought it funny to spike their drink or get them all drunk so they can get in their pants.

Cause frankly I am trying here I see no humor in that, lesbians or not

Yes and how many of these rapes are perpetuated by lesbians? The main point is that young women get raped and that is definitely not funny. It is also true that lesbians are doing very little, if any, of it.

[honeybarbara]

I got it. I also love very dark english humour that I think many people here would find offinsive, whereas in england it's called satire + irony.

it's ok not to get it.

However, there is one thing that satire and satire with irony needs and that's an audience that gets it or you'll get the dichotomy of 1) people thinking you are promoting what you are satirising 2) people thinking you are making fun (taking the piss is not really an american accepted tradition in certain political ways) in a way that isn't funny.

I for one LOVED Bruno, I nearly wet myself.
And Nighty Night, a very black humour satire, where in one scene this very screwed up woman is trying to seduce a 11 year old kid who clearly wants nothing to do with her, has no idea what she's talking about and is just playing his video game. In another she gets sperm off her ex boyfriend, it's accidently dropped in someone's dinner and she then demands that her female gimp shove the whole dinner up her twat while she hangs upside down in a closet.



I personally thought this clip was satire. Unfortunately, I also thought it wasn't all that expertly written. it lost it's mark. I didn't really find it offensive, I understood the double layer and that they were taking the piss. Just thought it was a bit shoddy and needed re-writing.

[Miss_Tia]

what happened to the link to the video?

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I would like to address the above in red.

Help me understand please. I find it offensive and downright ugly to show young drunk girls being taken advantage of. It's not because I have some past issue or because I don't want to look in the mirror, it's because it DOES happen and young women are raped and hurt cause someone thought it funny to spike their drink or get them all drunk so they can get in their pants.

Cause frankly I am trying here I see no humor in that, lesbians or not

*sigh* My post wasn't about the young drunk girl getting taken advantage of it was about the whole lesbians being made fun of thing. If you really knew me, you would know that I don't play that shit either but I don't think that was the video's focus it was to make fun of cougars that just so happen to be lesbians.