The Rise of Anti-Government Bigots: Spitting, the N-Word, Anti-Gay/Lesbian Slurs

[AtLast]

Outspoken bigotry is on the rise in the US as evidenced by the DC anti-health care reform & big government protesters calling out the N-Word and Fag and spitting on Congressional members arriving for the health care reform votes.

Nothing new in may ways, yet, I am more concerned than ever about racist and anti-gay hate crimes than ever. These people have been throwing up racist signs and slogans throughout this battle and I am amazed at the lack of outrage. While watching this on TV, I was struck by how my stomach had the same churning it did as a kid watching the Civil Rights demonstrations in the 60's. The hatred, the pure hatred in the eyes of these people! They were not protesting health-care reform, they simply took the opportunity to publicly display exactly what they are- racist and bigoted people that underneath it all are only moved to civil disobedience to be able to call an African American congressperson a n_ _ _ _ _ on TV and get away with it! Great opportunity to slam gays and lesbians, too!

During interviews about this on CNN & C-SPAN, it was clear that the GOP (which has an African American as its committee head) is courting the Teabaggers for votes in November and these are the nut-cakes that have been displaying this behavior throughout the first year of Obama's administration! What the hell is wrong with these people?

The momentum of these actions is increasing and I believe being tolerated at a dangerous level. Shame is what I feel at the moment about my country.

[Linus]

I was reading this on CNN today and it was interesting how many of the comments indicated that they didn't really believe that the comments were made because there was no video coverage of it. I think it just highlights the white privilege that exists and as time passes, the Tea Party and its ilk will amplify it even more. I wonder how much longer before we see riots similar to those seen in the 1960s, except this time done by those who feel they are losing privilege (white middle-lower class).

Much like the Chinese curse "We live in interesting times".

[Martina]

Teabaggers. LOL. Surely they don't refer to themselves this way.

On a more serious note, i did read about the comments and the spitting. i am glad it's getting publicity. People know who these folks really are.

[Corkey]

Teabaggers disgust me, they are being shown to be who they are, racist pigs.

[AtLast]

Tell Congressional Republicans to Denounce the Vicious Tea Party Attacks
After being addressed by Republican Leader John Boehner and Rep. Joe "You Lie" Wilson, Tea Party extremists launched a series of bigoted attacks at House Democrats.

Reports from the protest include claims of shouting disgusting racial epithets at civil rights hero Rep. John Lewis and terrible homophobic derogatory language at Rep. Barney Frank -- as well as going so far to actually spit on a member of Congress.

Call on Congressional Republicans to denounce tea party extremists' bigoted attacks:


http://www.dccc.org/page/s/teapartyfbad

[Soft*Silver]

sent....and commented...thanks ALH...

[Queerasfck]

Teabaggers. LOL. Surely they don't refer to themselves this way.

On a more serious note, i did read about the comments and the spitting. i am glad it's getting publicity. People know who these folks really are.

He doesn't seem to mind.
http://www.indecisionforever.com/files/2009/11/teabagger.jpg

[Martina]

i can see him teabagging. Good to be proud. ;)

[AtLast]

I was reading this on CNN today and it was interesting how many of the comments indicated that they didn't really believe that the comments were made because there was no video coverage of it. I think it just highlights the white privilege that exists and as time passes, the Tea Party and its ilk will amplify it even more. I wonder how much longer before we see riots similar to those seen in the 1960s, except this time done by those who feel they are losing privilege (white middle-lower class).

Much like the Chinese curse "We live in interesting times".
Yes, Linus, this what is most disturbing to me. I don't want to be an alarmist, but violence can spring from difficult economic times which we are in. I don't blame people for worrying, believe me, I get that. But, what is going on with these demonstrations coupled with the fear and anger about the economy is a dangerous mix. And immigration reform is going to be introduced as well.

The only other disgust I am feeling today has been in watching C-SPAN and the dog & pony show in which the GOP is feeding fear and have made the most arrogant statements (you bet, privileged) about the health-reform legislation. We actually elect and pay these idiots!!! And their support of the Teabag Party (want their votes in Nov.) is absolutely support of racism!

The bill is a whole lot different than I wanted, but, I can't see how anything will ever change in this system without getting this through.

Whoops... I need to fix the link for sending a protest email to the Congressional Democrats to stand up to the GOP and its support of Tea bagging bigots. here is the main link to the DCCC which has a place to send an email of protest supporting the Democrats challenging the GOP's support of the Tea Party which is responsible for yesterday and todays racist, anti-gay/lesbian slurs and spitting on congressional members.

http://www.dccc.org/page/s/inthismess

[Toughy]

I am ignoring politics for another couple of weeks.........I don't want to burst blood veins in my neck and head....

Women's March Madness (NCAA Basketball for those who don't know) is on.....and after reading this thread..... I am going back to watching OU kick ass.........and tomorrow I am going to Berkeley and watch that 6'8" freshman (again..I saw her last night) from Baylor....

[LotusFlower]

I am a member of Southern Poverty Law Center. They keep track of hate groups such as the teabaggers.

They also sued a big Klan group and won.

Check them out -

http://www.splcenter.org/

:shark:

[AtLast]

I am a member of Southern Poverty Law Center. They keep track of hate groups such as the teabaggers.

They also sued a big Klan group and won.

Check them out -

http://www.splcenter.org/

:shark:

Yes, the SPLC rawks!

I know that it is a fringe of the Tea Party that is involved with a lot of this stuff. And that fringe was simply a part of the way right in the GOP and Libertarians. I have no objection at all to exercising our right to civil disobedience at all. I just am concerned at what is really going on here and how it can lead to violence because so may are so upset with Congress, bailouts, inequities, etc.

Hey, the health-Care Reform Bill passed! A start in a good direction!!

[Rockinonahigh]

Yes the health care reform bill passed and is a really great start in puting things to right,but I fear Louisiana will be trying to stop it in this state,our gov is a srtong suported of anything against anything the dems do or want to do.Now if Bush was still in office or it was a republic thing he would be kissing azz.

[AtLast]

Yes the health care reform bill passed and is a really great start in puting things to right,but I fear Louisiana will be trying to stop it in this state,our gov is a srtong suported of anything against anything the dems do or want to do.Now if Bush was still in office or it was a republic thing he would be kissing azz.


Does anyone know yet, if the person that yelled-out baby Killer at Stupak (sp??) on the House Floor yesterday has been identified as a member of Congress?

Yes, LA might very well put the brakes on the fix-it portion of the health-care reform legislation. I actually don't like some of the bill as it pertains to these kinds of deals. The dems were wrong to do this, but, I want it passed (the fix-it). I am so tired of the craziness in Congress. Do they know how assinine so many of them appear?

Frankly, until there are many more women, POC, TG/I, queers in general, disabled people, and every other disenfranchised group in the US serving in our Congress, things will be as they are. And it really does take the people to change this. Right now, however, there are so many of us in dire financial situations, that we can't muster the gumption to participate to the level that we saw in Obam's election. And frankly, I do wonder if some of this was behind the entire economic collapse! Wide spread economic difficulty is very effective in keeping the non-white, non-rich masses in their place!

:rant:

AH! Here it is!
Randy Neugebauer (R-Tex.) identified himself as the member of congress who shouted "baby killer" during Rep. Bart Stupak's (D-Mich.) speech on the floor of the House of Representatives Sunday night.
Neugebauer, a three-term member of Congress from Texas, issued a statement of apology on Monday, saying that the statement was not directed at Stupak.
"In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase 'it's a baby killer' in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership," Neugebauer said. "I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct reference to Congressman Stupak himself."
Neugebauer's official Congressional Web site is down at the moment but his campaign site can be found here.
Here is the Texas Republican's statement of apology:
"Last night was the climax of weeks and months of debate on a health care bill that my constituents fear and do not support. In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase 'it's a baby killer' in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership. While I remain heartbroken over the passage of this bill and the tragic consequences it will have for the unborn, I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct reference to Congressman Stupak himself.

"I have apologized to Mr. Stupak and also apologize to my colleagues for the manner in which I expressed my disappointment about the bill. The House Chamber is a place of decorum and respect. The timing and tone of my comment last night was inappropriate."
Neugebauer's outburst came at the end of an intense day of debate and voting on the health care reform bill. Stupak, an anti-abortion Democrat who struck a deal with the White House in exchange for a "yes" vote on the bill, had taken to the floor of the House to deliver a speech opposing a Republican amendment that would have reintroduced stricter abortion financing language in the bill -- language that Stupak, himself, previously introduced.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/22/randy-neugebauer-revealed_n_508525.html

[AtLast]

More Info- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/tea-party-protests-nier-f_n_507116.html

Tea Party Protests: 'Ni**er,' 'Fa**ot' Shouted At Members Of Congress

Abusive, derogatory and even racist behavior directed at House Democrats by Tea Party protesters on Saturday left several lawmakers in shock.
Preceding the president's speech to a gathering of House Democrats, thousands of protesters descended around the Capitol to protest the passage of health care reform. The gathering quickly turned into abusive heckling, as members of Congress passing through Longworth House office building were subjected to epithets and even mild physical abuse.
A staffer for Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.) told reporters that Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) had been spat on by a protestor. Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), a hero of the civil rights movement, was called a 'ni--er.' And Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) was called a "faggot," as protestors shouted at him with deliberately lisp-y screams. Frank, approached in the halls after the president's speech, shrugged off the incident.
But Clyburn was downright incredulous, saying he had not witnessed such treatment since he was leading civil rights protests in South Carolina in the 1960s.
"It was absolutely shocking to me," Clyburn said, in response to a question from the Huffington Post. "Last Monday, this past Monday, I stayed home to meet on the campus of Claflin University where fifty years ago as of last Monday... I led the first demonstrations in South Carolina, the sit ins... And quite frankly I heard some things today I have not heard since that day. I heard people saying things that I have not heard since March 15, 1960 when I was marching to try and get off the back of the bus."
"It doesn't make me nervous as all," the congressman said, when asked how the mob-like atmosphere made him feel. "In fact, as I said to one heckler, I am the hardest person in the world to intimidate, so they better go somewhere else."
Asked if he wanted an apology from the group of Republican lawmakers who had addressed the crowd and, in many ways, played on their worst fears of health care legislation, the Democratic Party, and the president, Clyburn replied:
Story continues below 
"A lot of us have been saying for a long time that much of this, much of this is not about health care a all. And I think a lot of those people today demonstrated that this is not about health care... it is about trying to extend a basic fundamental right to people who are less powerful."
UPDATE 6:55 PM ET: Rep. Emanuel Cleaver's office released the following statement:
For many of the members of the CBC, like John Lewis and Emanuel Cleaver who worked in the civil rights movement, and for Mr. Frank who has struggled in the cause of equality, this is not the first time they have been spit on during turbulent times.

This afternoon, the Congressman was walking into the Capitol to vote, when one protester spat on him. The Congressman would like to thank the US Capitol Police officer who quickly escorted the others Members and him into the Capitol, and defused the tense situation with professionalism and care. After all the Members were safe, a full report was taken and the matter was handled by the US Capitol Police. The man who spat on the Congressman was arrested, but the Congressman has chosen not to press charges. He has left the matter with the Capitol Police.
This is not the first time the Congressman has been called the "n" word and certainly not the worst assault he has endured in his years fighting for equal rights for all Americans. That being said, he is disappointed that in the 21st century our national discourse has devolved to the point of name calling and spitting. He looks forward to taking a historic vote on health care reform legislation tomorrow, for the residents of the Fifth District of Missouri and for all Americans. He believes deeply that tomorrow's vote is, in fact, a vote for equality and to secure health care as a right for all. Our nation has a history of struggling each time we expand rights. Today's protests are no different, but the Congressman believes this is worth fighting for.

[Linus]

Whoa. Not cool.


UPDATE 7:48 PM ET: The Buffalo News reports (http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/19/993040/brick-thrown-through-window-in.html) that Rep. Louise Slaughter's district office in Pine View, New York, was vandalized on Saturday.
Sometime early this morning, someone threw a brick through the front window of her Pine Avenue office.
The damage was discovered about 12:30 a.m., city police said.
The brick put a hole in the outer-most window at the office at 1910 Pine Ave., but did not damage a second interior window, police reported. A piece of broken brick believed to have caused the damage was found at the scene.
Damage was estimated at $350.

[AtLast]

Whoa. Not cool.








[/INDENT]

And so it continues.....

It would be great if we all add stories like this as we see them. WAKING UP to this is one way of beginning to act!

[Corkey]

Whoa. Not cool.








[/INDENT]

This shit reminds me of meaner days of the Nazi regime, Crystal Nacht.

[Kobi]

I, for one, dont have a problem with people speaking their minds, even if it does means listening to slurs. I would much rather know where people stand then to assume attitudes and beliefs have changed because it became politically incorrect to be honest about your feelings and beliefs.

And, I do attribute a lot of the slurs per se to scared people, lashing out much like a bully would. But, to respond to slurs just adds fuel to the fire.

In my 34 years of being out, I have never been a victim of a hate crime. I have had slurs said in my presence and I smile knowing from whence the ignorance comes from. I have no need to defend who I am, because I am not threatened by childish ignorance.

Not everyone is going to like us, nor do I like everyone. Prejudice is not something you can eradicate by legislation. God knows, watch a session of congressional debates - these have got to be the most bigoted, prejudicial, childish humans in the country.

As for a revolution, I doubt it will come from the middle-lower class. The folks most threatened are those on the cusp of the elite who are being squeezed out. The rest of us were never a threat.

I would appreciate if you all didnt jump all over me just because I dont tow the line in my beliefs.

[Corkey]

Um freedom of speech wasn't the issue, nor has it been, and who are you referencing being jumped upon by? You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else unless it's against the site rules, so wondering where this remark came from.

[Linus]

I, for one, dont have a problem with people speaking their minds, even if it does means listening to slurs. I would much rather know where people stand then to assume attitudes and beliefs have changed because it became politically incorrect to be honest about your feelings and beliefs.

And, I do attribute a lot of the slurs per se to scared people, lashing out much like a bully would. But, to respond to slurs just adds fuel to the fire.

In my 34 years of being out, I have never been a victim of a hate crime. I have had slurs said in my presence and I smile knowing from whence the ignorance comes from. I have no need to defend who I am, because I am not threatened by childish ignorance.

Not everyone is going to like us, nor do I like everyone. Prejudice is not something you can eradicate by legislation. God knows, watch a session of congressional debates - these have got to be the most bigoted, prejudicial, childish humans in the country.

As for a revolution, I doubt it will come from the middle-lower class. The folks most threatened are those on the cusp of the elite who are being squeezed out. The rest of us were never a threat.

I would appreciate if you all didnt jump all over me just because I dont tow the line in my beliefs.

I have no problem with voicing a contrary opinion. But I have issue when it feels like things are starting to get unsafe. And some of what's going on feels potentially dangerous. I fail to see how throwing a brick into a rep's office is a form of free expression (which is really about the gov't censoring individuals not individuals censoring individuals).

[dreadgeek]

It's all very well and good to say "it's just words, they don't matter". However, I would argue that sometimes words matter quite a bit and we make a mistake to be so sanguine about these incidents. There are a couple of reasons for this all of them having to do with language. The first is the escalation of rhetoric. The second is the the problem of nominally respectable and respected members of Congress giving aid and comfort to these sentiments. I'll take them in order.

Back when I was an undergrad the first time, I had a poli-sci professor who told us a story about his nephew who was home on leave from Vietnam. He related to us how his nephew was sitting around the dinner table and using the slur, popular at the time, for Vietnamese. My professor, who had been an instructor at the Air Force's school for intelligence analysts asked him "so, I'm a little fuzzy on the difference between the g--ks you're there to kill and the g--ks you're there to help". His nephew responded "what difference".

First you dehumanize them, then you can do damn near anything you want to them. Today Barney Frank is a fa--ot, tomorrow some *other* gay man, who spends a bit more time on the streets than I imagine Mr. Frank does is *also* the fa--ot. What's more, to the delight of the homophobe this one is right at hand with no capitol police to stop the violence. So on Monday he can shout what he was shouting on Sunday but *this* time he can do something about it. Today, John Lewis is a ni--er, tomorrow it's someone else who happens to share a skin color with Lewis but she doesn't have the benefit of capitol police protection either. Almost everyone agrees that it's wrong to hurl either epithets or bricks at *people*. However, fa--ots and ni--ers and g--ks and sp-c etc. etc. aren't really *people* now, are they? They're whatever slur is being hurled at them. If you can hurl the words at someone who isn't a person, you can hurl a brick at them.

While it is certainly true that not every incidence of bigoted words being thrown about ends in violence, every incidence of bigotry-inspired violence has, at some point, the *language* of bigotry involved. I don't recall much of having a cross burnt on our lawn, I certainly don't recall any words that were hurled at my parents but I'm willing to bet that ni--er was one of them.

On a related note, I don't consider bricks to be carriers of an opinion.

The other problem is the muted response of responsible GOP leaders. They *should* have come down hard and firm against the Tea Partiers. Instead they made half-assed attempts at dismissing or justifying the bigotry while winking in the direction of the bigots. For a year now, we have watched the spectacle of GOP members of Congress who, not 24 months before were ready to see Americans imprisoned merely for saying that George Bush was incompetent, walking right up to the line of encouraging armed revolution.. They talk about how this is totalitarianism, fascism, the end of America as we know it, and on and on. If we *were* to ever see actual totalitarian or fascist takeover looming we, as Americans, would have something of a duty to rise up and defend our democratic republic. This isn't it but they want the Tea Partiers to *believe* that it is. We have governors openly talking secession. Congresspeople and candidates for Congress talking about the American people (at least those they agree with) 'locking and loading'. It's fire they are playing with in order to pick up a few seats in the House and Senate which, historically, they are bound to do anyway.

In this country, we seem to mistake--for reasons that escape me--the right to free speech for the right to say any damn fool thing you want and the rest of us are just obliged to sit by and take it and talk about the right to free speech. The right to free speech does, in fact, give you the right to say pretty much any damn fool thing you wish to say. It does *not* oblige any of the rest of us from saying that it's a damn fool thing or a bigoted thing. When we are silent in the face of bigotry or we shine it on with a "sticks and stones may break my bones" statement we give our silent concession to the bigots. What we are saying is this: "I recognize that, for you, your intolerance is something you are willing to go to the mat for. Well, I think you're intolerant but I'm not ready to go to the mat in defense of tolerance." When we do that, we grant them a victory they do not deserve.

Kobi, I'm not trying to jump on you or tell you you don't have a right to your opinion. You have every right to it. You have every right to express it. And I have every right to express my opinions in response to yours.

Cheers
Aj



I, for one, dont have a problem with people speaking their minds, even if it does means listening to slurs. I would much rather know where people stand then to assume attitudes and beliefs have changed because it became politically incorrect to be honest about your feelings and beliefs.

And, I do attribute a lot of the slurs per se to scared people, lashing out much like a bully would. But, to respond to slurs just adds fuel to the fire.

In my 34 years of being out, I have never been a victim of a hate crime. I have had slurs said in my presence and I smile knowing from whence the ignorance comes from. I have no need to defend who I am, because I am not threatened by childish ignorance.

Not everyone is going to like us, nor do I like everyone. Prejudice is not something you can eradicate by legislation. God knows, watch a session of congressional debates - these have got to be the most bigoted, prejudicial, childish humans in the country.

As for a revolution, I doubt it will come from the middle-lower class. The folks most threatened are those on the cusp of the elite who are being squeezed out. The rest of us were never a threat.

I would appreciate if you all didnt jump all over me just because I dont tow the line in my beliefs.

[theoddz]

I totally see where Kobi is coming from about the slurs bit. I remember when sexism was out in the open with the off-color, bad taste comments that some men would hurl at women. I served in the military and endured that kind of thing from men when "political correctness" wasn't in vogue. Then, when it became a litigious issue and the anti discrimination laws were passed, these same men shut their friggin' mouths. I was relieved that those laws did that....at first. Then I began to see the other side of that coin. When we used to know who the sexist pigs were, because they opened their mouths and told us so, they now kept their comments to themselves and we were forced to find out the hard way.....after we lost our jobs, promotions and were sometimes assaulted sexually by the men who used to verbally vent their feelings. Sometimes the most sexist, biggoted asshats hide behind disingenuous smiles, sweet words and token gestures. Their feelings are, instead, only revealed after the damage is done.

Throwing bricks through windows and other illegal tactics or "acting out" is quite another matter. Somehow, I don't think Kobi meant to say that that was or should be considered to be a "freedom of expression". Linus has it entirely right when he called that one out.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[dreadgeek]

This shit reminds me of meaner days of the Nazi regime, Crystal Nacht.

Yeah, I'm waiting to see what happens this summer. Temperatures will rise. Tensions will rise. The campaign season will kick into high gear. And I suspect we'll have more "one bad apple" incidents of violence by guys who look a lot like the folks we see at Tea Party rallies who will, in their 'this is why I went crazy' letter/blog/video spout much the same rhetoric.

We still haven't had our Reichstag fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire) yet. But I'll bet anyone here a steak dinner that if/when it *does* happen, the perpetrator will either be a Muslim or a queer person.

Cheers
Aj

[Linus]

Yeah, I'm waiting to see what happens this summer. Temperatures will rise. Tensions will rise. The campaign season will kick into high gear. And I suspect we'll have more "one bad apple" incidents of violence by guys who look a lot like the folks we see at Tea Party rallies who will, in their 'this is why I went crazy' letter/blog/video spout much the same rhetoric.

We still haven't had our Reichstag fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire) yet. But I'll bet anyone here a steak dinner that if/when it *does* happen, the perpetrator will either be a Muslim or a queer person.

Cheers
Aj

Why? I would have thought the perpetrator would be a member of the Tea/Republican party (aka White).

[dreadgeek]

I have said before and I'll say again that I much prefer my bigots out front and loud where I can keep an eye on them. However, I'm not going to do those bigots the favor of pretending that they aren't bigots just because they're 'only' calling me the n-word. As I said in my prior post, today it's calling me the n-word. Tomorrow it's doing something to me that "ni--ers got coming to them".

Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of the intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument, they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.
(Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies)

I quote this whenever this subject comes up because IF we ever lose our democratic republic it will likely be because we decided that tolerance wasn't worth defending until it was too late.

Cheers
Aj


I totally see where Kobi is coming from about the slurs bit. I remember when sexism was out in the open with the off-color, bad taste comments that some men would hurl at women. I served in the military and endured that kind of thing from men when "political correctness" wasn't in vogue. Then, when it became a litigious issue and the anti discrimination laws were passed, these same men shut their friggin' mouths. I was relieved that those laws did that....at first. Then I began to see the other side of that coin. When we used to know who the sexist pigs were, because they opened their mouths and told us so, they now kept their comments to themselves and we were forced to find out the hard way.....after we lost our jobs, promotions and were sometimes assaulted sexually by the men who used to verbally vent their feelings. Sometimes the most sexist, biggoted asshats hide behind disingenuous smiles, sweet words and token gestures. Their feelings are, instead, only revealed after the damage is done.

Throwing bricks through windows and other illegal tactics or "acting out" is quite another matter. Somehow, I don't think Kobi meant to say that that was or should be considered to be a "freedom of expression". Linus has it entirely right when he called that one out.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[dreadgeek]

Why? I would have thought the perpetrator would be a member of the Tea/Republican party (aka White).

Okay, I probably should have clarified my comment. What I meant by "will probably be Muslim or queer" is that if *I* were, say, Dick Armey and I wanted to *really* get the American people to vote in my slate of John Birch Conservatives who would then vow to 'keep America safe no matter what' I would set up a Reichstag fire-type incident.

The people who *actually* set the fires will be Tea Partiers. The people who take the fall will be Muslim or queer.

Recall that the Reichstag fire was allegedly set by a Communist. As it turned out, of course, it was a group of brown shirts that actually planned and committed the crime. But a convenient scapegoat was found in the personage of a recently immigrated Dutch Communist.

I should have been more clear. I don't think that the *actual* perp of this kind of false flag will be a Muslim or queer but one of those groups will take the fall for it. They need a bogeyman and blacks just aren't going to cut it. It has to be someone still considered sufficiently other that it's okay to hate them in polite company. That means queer or Muslim.

Cheers
Aj

[Linus]

Okay, I probably should have clarified my comment. What I meant by "will probably be Muslim or queer" is that if *I* were, say, Dick Armey and I wanted to *really* get the American people to vote in my slate of John Birch Conservatives who would then vow to 'keep America safe no matter what' I would set up a Reichstag fire-type incident.

The people who *actually* set the fires will be Tea Partiers. The people who take the fall will be Muslim or queer.

Recall that the Reichstag fire was allegedly set by a Communist. As it turned out, of course, it was a group of brown shirts that actually planned and committed the crime. But a convenient scapegoat was found in the personage of a recently immigrated Dutch Communist.

I should have been more clear. I don't think that the *actual* perp of this kind of false flag will be a Muslim or queer but one of those groups will take the fall for it. They need a bogeyman and blacks just aren't going to cut it. It has to be someone still considered sufficiently other that it's okay to hate them in polite company. That means queer or Muslim.

Cheers
Aj

Ah.. they may have a bogeyman to blame but with the Interwebz being all over the place ('cuz Gore set it up that way, don't'cha know?), it'll be hard to maintain and will likely backfire.

Unlike the 1920s, it's a lot harder to hide who the true source of an attack or behaviour. (e.g., "Baby Killer" comment was recorded and the person apologized; given time someone would have recognized his voice easily).

[Corkey]

Deception of facts isn't just for the tea-baggers. Congress has been a great dissipator of false information. If any one thinks they can trust their congress person to do the right thing, one needed not look further than Congress woman Dahlkemper. She was willing to vote no, for the simple fact that she is pro life, so even though she may be a Dem, she sure can't claim she holds any woman's reproductive right issue to her heart.
For me I look to history for where the next onslaught will come from. Those who have lost their privileges.

[Kobi]

Thank you for your eloquence Theo. I do not condone violence but I do understand it is a way to get a message across when you feel threatened and unheard. Does it accomplish much? No. But it makes the thrower feel some degree of power. I understand how frustrating it is to feel powerless.

Much as we as a nation have undergone major changes at various times - freedom from slavery, the great depression, the cold war, the rights movements etc - I suspect we are facing another change. Change is indeed scary and it certainly evokes much emotion
both good and bad.

I, personally, dont care for change but if I have to deal with it, I prefer it be presented in an open and honest way - that is respectful and decent. What I object to is the lies and deceit we Americans have been forced to deal with. Tell me the truth. Dont sugar coat screwing me. When people overreact, I find it is because they feel they have not been dealt with fairly or honestly.

I find it difficult to ascribe to an us-them mentality. I think it leads to conflict rather than resolution. Even when people do not agree with me or see things the way I do, I find it helpful to try and see things from their perspective. This doesnt mean I have to agree with them, it simply means their views are important too. Compromise comes from seeing all sides and focusing on what can be agreed upon. Can learn a lot by listening :)

[dreadgeek]

Linus:

I agree with what you're saying in part, but I'm a little more pessimistic because of my experiences watching my countrymen believe, against all available evidence, that Saddam Hussein's Iraq was instrumentally involved in the 9/11 plot OR that Al Qaeda was in bed with that tyrant. The second, more risible claim, could be disproved with less than two hours of web research. All one would have to find out is that Al Qaeda is a Wahhabist sect of Sunni Islam and that Saddam Hussein was a secular pan-Arabist who cynically used religion but was not devout by any measure and that would put the lie to that. It would be like claiming that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson were the two biggest contributors to the ACLU or the American Humanist Society. Osama bin Laden would no more get in bed with Hussein as Falwell would with Richard Dawkins.

The first claim, about Iraq's involvement in 9/11 is partially debunked from knowing about the differences between Hussein and bin Laden and partially just by looking at the details that were known within a week of the attack.

The point I'm trying to make is that I'm not sure, given our current state, that it would *matter* if the information that a false-flag operation had taken place in the U.S. The kinds of people who are showing up at the Tea Party rallies aren't particularly likely and unless it came from some approved (read right-wing) information source they would continue to believe that it was done by the convenient perps even IF there were a YouTube video of Armey, Cheney, et. al. planning it. Low-information voters, gotta love 'em.

Cheers
Aj

Ah.. they may have a bogeyman to blame but with the Interwebz being all over the place ('cuz Gore set it up that way, don't'cha know?), it'll be hard to maintain and will likely backfire.

Unlike the 1920s, it's a lot harder to hide who the true source of an attack or behaviour. (e.g., "Baby Killer" comment was recorded and the person apologized; given time someone would have recognized his voice easily).

[Linus]

Linus:

I agree with what you're saying in part, but I'm a little more pessimistic because of my experiences watching my countrymen believe, against all available evidence, that Saddam Hussein's Iraq was instrumentally involved in the 9/11 plot OR that Al Qaeda was in bed with that tyrant. The second, more risible claim, could be disproved with less than two hours of web research. All one would have to find out is that Al Qaeda is a Wahhabist sect of Sunni Islam and that Saddam Hussein was a secular pan-Arabist who cynically used religion but was not devout by any measure and that would put the lie to that. It would be like claiming that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson were the two biggest contributors to the ACLU or the American Humanist Society. Osama bin Laden would no more get in bed with Hussein as Falwell would with Richard Dawkins.

The first claim, about Iraq's involvement in 9/11 is partially debunked from knowing about the differences between Hussein and bin Laden and partially just by looking at the details that were known within a week of the attack.

The point I'm trying to make is that I'm not sure, given our current state, that it would *matter* if the information that a false-flag operation had taken place in the U.S. The kinds of people who are showing up at the Tea Party rallies aren't particularly likely and unless it came from some approved (read right-wing) information source they would continue to believe that it was done by the convenient perps even IF there were a YouTube video of Armey, Cheney, et. al. planning it. Low-information voters, gotta love 'em.

Cheers
Aj

I think one of the biggest differences between what happened with Iraq and WMD is who is handling the main megaphone on Capital Hill (aka the President). I suppose as a non-American and based on what I've seen as a non-American I'm a little more optimistic about it today than things were in 2001. Things are far more transparent than before (2001-era) and FOXNews et al would be hard pressed to really contradict proof.

Heck, they could have used that for the plane that crashed in the IRS and didn't. I was expecting it but it really never appeared...

[Semantics]

I, for one, dont have a problem with people speaking their minds, even if it does means listening to slurs. I would much rather know where people stand then to assume attitudes and beliefs have changed because it became politically incorrect to be honest about your feelings and beliefs.

And, I do attribute a lot of the slurs per se to scared people, lashing out much like a bully would. But, to respond to slurs just adds fuel to the fire.

In my 34 years of being out, I have never been a victim of a hate crime. I have had slurs said in my presence and I smile knowing from whence the ignorance comes from. I have no need to defend who I am, because I am not threatened by childish ignorance.

Not everyone is going to like us, nor do I like everyone. Prejudice is not something you can eradicate by legislation. God knows, watch a session of congressional debates - these have got to be the most bigoted, prejudicial, childish humans in the country.

As for a revolution, I doubt it will come from the middle-lower class. The folks most threatened are those on the cusp of the elite who are being squeezed out. The rest of us were never a threat.

I would appreciate if you all didnt jump all over me just because I dont tow the line in my beliefs.

So, is disagreeing with you jumping all over you? I hope not. http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n114/Holly3257/stuff/hmm-1.gif

You do toe the line with your beliefs, actually, at least the beliefs of a lot of people in this country. There are a large number of people that bemoan political correctness, because hell, why should anyone have to communicate in a respectful way?

I do have a problem with slurs, because hate speech can incite violence and people get hurt. Sure, they have the freedom to say whatever they want, and we have the right to respond.

I'm confused by your post, because it seemed like you said slurs are ok because people are just speaking their minds, but responding to them is just adding fuel to the fire. People need to be responding and letting the racists and bigots know that they disagree. Sometimes silence is mistaken for agreement or support, and my opinion is that we've been silent for too long.

I agree that prejudice is not something you can eradicate by legislation, but the discrimination that comes from prejudice can be, which is why legislation is so important. :)

[apretty]

I
In my 34 years of being out, I have never been a victim of a hate crime. I have had slurs said in my presence and I smile knowing from whence the ignorance comes from.


slurs are hateful--i don't think you need to be beaten to have been victim of hate and discrimination.

to be clear, you can feel comfortable but for me, being spat on and called names is WAYYYYYYYYYY beyond my comfort level.

[Kobi]

Semantics......I am saying people have the right to free speech. If they have the need and immaturity to use slurs, so be it. If someone has the need to respond to slurs, they have the right to do so as well.

I am speaking for myself. And I believe in picking my battles carefully. I have discovered I can change more minds or mitigate more bigotry by not reacting to it or not reacting negatively to it. Bigotry and slurs are designed to evoke a negative response. I prefer to take a positive approach because to me, responding with negativity invites a confrontation. I prefer communication to confrontation.

And I am not going to respond to every slight to gay folks that I encounter in living. To me, life is more about being a good person than being a card carrying cause laden gay person. Some things require a response, some dont, it is a matter of perspective.

Prejudice is not eradicated by legislation, neither is discrimination but that is just my opinion. I have seen to many people being screwed by the very laws designed to help them simply because the perpetrators use a roundabout route to justify their deeds while circumenting the law.

[Linus]

FYI: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/22/ann-coulter-told-to-watch_n_508406.html

University of Ottawa Academic Vice President and Provost Francois Houle e-mailed the controversial pundit on Friday. He wrote: "Our domestic laws, both provincial and federal, delineate freedom of expression (or "free speech") in a manner that is somewhat different than the approach taken in the United States. I therefore encourage you to educate yourself, if need be, as to what is acceptable in Canada and to do so before your planned visit here."
He continued, "Promoting hatred against any identifiable group would not only be considered inappropriate, but could in fact lead to criminal charges."


Canada has laws in place that disallow the promotion of hatred that will incite violence against a group. I kinda wish it was here but the nature of US society and history will prevent this kind of law from ever existing here.

[Soon]

FYI: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/22/ann-coulter-told-to-watch_n_508406.html




Canada has laws in place that disallow the promotion of hatred that will incite violence against a group. I kinda wish it was here but the nature of US society and history will prevent this kind of law from ever existing here.

Thanks for posting this. I actually was researching the differences too, and I am not too fond of the I-can-say-whatever-I-want-it's-free-speech(!) approach of the USA.

Here's another link if anyone is interested that outlines some of the differences b/w a few countries (USA, Canada, UK, Sweden, Brazil).

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hatespeech.htm

[dreadgeek]

I'm curious. If someone comes up to me and starts yelling at me that I'm a ni--er or calling me some homophobic slur or telling me that I'm hell-bound what am I supposed to compromise on? What side am I supposed to be seeing? I hear this a lot from people (usually white people--sorry but there it is) that I should "see all sides" or "focus on what we have in common". I'm equally curious why *I* should have to compromise. Why is it incumbent on the *targets* of bigotry to do the compromising, to see all sides, including the side of those that hate? I rarely see anyone asserting that it's the bigots who should see all sides or compromise. In that situation--which isn't about policy it's about personhood--what am I supposed to be compromising *on* exactly? What side am I supposed to be seeing? What is it that I'm supposed to understand there?

I've listened to a lot of different things in my 40+ years. Not only have I listened, I've *heard* a lot of things. When I hear the word 'nigger' I don't see what there is to compromise on. What I hear and what I listen to can be translated to "I don't think you're human. I think you're low, dishonest, dirty and not someone who should be admitted where decent people are..."

I agree, their views ARE important. I WANT to hear them shout their hate from the rooftops if that is in their heart. What's more, I want *YOU* (generic you, Kobi not specific) to hear them so you can decide which side you're on and what, if anything, you want to do about it. I disagree that I need to be ready to compromise with the person hurling epithets at me. The person who disagrees with me and is willing to sit down and have a genuine discussion and meeting of the minds? Sure, absolutely. The person who is hurling epithets that boil down to "you're not human", I see no compromise that presents itself. They aren't going to admit that I *might* be human or they wouldn't be hurling the epithet. I'll be damned if I'm willing to grant that they might be right and maybe I'm not fully human. At that point, I don't really *care* about their feelings and I'm not interested in understanding where they are coming from. My interest, at that point, collapses into one thing: how can I conclude whatever business we might have to transact in the fastest, most efficient manner so that they can go on their way and I can go on mine and never again bother the others' eye with our visage.

Lastly, I don't think anyone *wants* to subscribe to an us-them mentality but sometimes there really IS an 'us' and there really IS a 'them'. If someone makes it clear that they have an America and that their America doesn't include me and that, given the opportunity, they will make certain that there is no place for me in their America, they’ve gone out of their way to make themselves, well, Them. I have never, in my entire life, started or invited a racist incident nor have I ever started or invited a sexist or homophobic incident. But I have had those experiences all more than once or twice. The person who *did* instigate those incidents was bound and determined to make me their 'them' and I'd be a fool (or a corpse) if I didn't take that person very, very seriously.

Cheers
Aj

[Dean Thoreau]

Has anyone noticed that the anti-governemnt,,keep government out of our business people seem to think it is alright for the government to stick their nose in a woman's right to choose and homosexuality...

Seems the only thing these people want regulated is what goes on in people bedrooms and their reproduction decisions...

i think that sux, really sux

think i will call the FBI, ATF, DEA on all the tea party bigots... (joke sort of...maybe)



sorry if this pisses off any B_F tea party members.....

:surprisebday:

[dreadgeek]

Prejudice is not eradicated by legislation, neither is discrimination but that is just my opinion. I have seen to many people being screwed by the very laws designed to help them simply because the perpetrators use a roundabout route to justify their deeds while circumenting the law.

I think that we sometimes mix up the desire to see a world without discrimination with a world without prejudice. I would love for my granddaughter to NEVER have a racist or sexist experience in her life. That would be a good world from where I sit. However, I doubt she'll live in that world. What world I *can* leave her with is a country where it is not legal to discriminate and THAT we can legislate.

Let me be clear, I do not care if any given white person hates me because I'm black. I really do not give a damn what any particular white person thinks of me. What I *do* give a damn about is whether or not that white person can make their racism my problem. Calling me the 'n-word' makes it my annoyance but not my problem. Refusing to treat me fairly in an interview, refusing to grant me credit, not taking me seriously in class or in the workplace, passing me over for promotion or paying me less than my colleagues--even those who have less experience than I do--IS making it my problem and THAT I expect my society to put quite a bit of energy into doing something about. The same applies for men and for straight people. Don't care. Genuinely don't. As long as they cannot *legally* make it my problem, what someone carries in their own head neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg, to use Jefferson's memorable phrasing. As long as I have a legal recourse then that is as good as I think any society will do.

The above, by the way, explains why I have said on numerous occasions that where we are today--right here, right now--in America is probably the best any of us can expect as far as racial harmony is concerned, notwithstanding all of the genuflecting about white privilege and talk of unpacking of knapsacks. I don't expect anything to get noticeably better in my lifetime *because* you can't legislate away prejudice. I choose to work on eliminating those things you *can* legislate away--like it being legal to fire someone for no better reason than that they are queer. Or it being legal to harass someone at work or school because they are queer. Or it being legal to refuse to rent to someone because they are queer, etc. etc.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Has anyone noticed that the anti-governemnt,,keep government out of our business people seem to think it is alright for the government to stick their nose in a woman's right to choose and homosexuality...

Yeah, funny isn't it? That in the very same breath, people who are convinced that, for instance, making a law that insurance companies can't just drop you off the rolls because you now NEED the insurance policy is the very essence of tyranny are absolutely enthusiastic about the idea that two men or two women should be punished for a consensual act of sex or for loving one another.

I find that incredibly ironic.

Cheers
Aj

[key]

The most powerful image of this whole health care debate (or screaming match if you will) is the man with Parkinson's disease who simply sat in front of the people who were wanting to deny him health care (to be his personal death panel).

His name is Robert Letcher, he has a PhD and was a nuclear engineer before being diagnosed with Parkinson's 15 years ago.

He is also a Martial Artist and he said he used his breathing exercises while he sat there and absorbed the hatred and condescension that was being violently hurled at him.

Personally I consider him an American Hero because of that moment.

Like Martin Luther King Jr, like Gandhi, like others have shown us throughout civil rights struggles in the past

pure and centered, righteous peace in the face of injustice really can change people's hearts. And when you have changed their hearts, they will change their minds

:praying:

[dreadgeek]

The most powerful image of this whole health care debate (or screaming match if you will) is the man with Parkinson's disease who simply sat in front of the people who were wanting to deny him health care (to be his personal death panel).

His name is Robert Letcher, he has a PhD and was a nuclear engineer before being diagnosed with Parkinson's 15 years ago.

He is also a Martial Artist and he said he used his breathing exercises while he sat there and absorbed the hatred and condescension that was being violently hurled at him.

Personally I consider him an American Hero because of that moment.

Like Martin Luther King Jr, like Gandhi, like others have shown us throughout civil rights struggles in the past

pure and centered, righteous peace in the face of injustice really can change people's hearts. And when you have changed their hearts, they will change their minds

:praying:

It was also VERY telling about just how 'compassionate' these conservatives are.

As an aside, while I admire both Gandhi and King I think, sometimes, we idealize these men without taking their actions in context. Gandhi and King were able to use non-violent protests because the people who were the oppressors were, for the most part, civilized people. By that I mean that, for instance, both British and American culture had (maybe still have) at their cultural cores the idea that it is just *wrong* for a stronger (read armed) person to beat up a weaker (read unarmed/unresisting) person. So both men and their followers were facing people who *could* be reached, eventually after enough bodies were broken.

Had Gandhi or King had to face down the Nazis then I think history would have turned out *very* differently. Post-Weimar Germany had, at its core, an ethic that the strong had every right and, what's more, every *reason* to beat up the weak. Non-violent resistance would have just *encouraged* the Nazis because it would have shown them that blacks or Hindus just weren't willing to fight back.

One of the things that makes me so concerned about what I'm seeing and the actions of the national GOP leadership (who are standing in a puddle of gasoline and playing with a lighter) is that I can't yet tell if we are dealing with the British circa 1940, the Americans circa 1960 or the Germans circa 1936. What I saw the other day, in the pictures of those Tea Party protesters throwing money at this man with Parkinson's was closer to the latter than the former two. What I saw were the healthy and strong chomping at the bit to do something to the weak and sick.


Cheers
Aj

[Kobi]

[I'm curious. If someone comes up to me and starts yelling at me that I'm a ni--er or calling me some homophobic slur or telling me that I'm hell-bound what am I supposed to compromise on? What side am I supposed to be seeing? I hear this a lot from people (usually white people--sorry but there it is) that I should "see all sides" or "focus on what we have in common". I'm equally curious why *I* should have to compromise. Why is it incumbent on the *targets* of bigotry to do the compromising, to see all sides, including the side of those that hate? I rarely see anyone asserting that it's the bigots who should see all sides or compromise. In that situation--which isn't about policy it's about personhood--what am I supposed to be compromising *on* exactly? What side am I supposed to be seeing? What is it that I'm supposed to understand there? ]

Dread,

I hear what you are saying. And I agree, taking the higher road can be a pain in the hiney.

I am also not Black so I dont know what it is like to have the n word hurled at me. I do know that many Black folks have accomplished, developed, designed, and done a lot of great things for this country. And they have endured and overcome a lot of hardship and obstacles to do so. That, to me, is a triumph of spirit, determination, and belief in self. It is something to be very proud of.

I am gay tho and if someone had the audacity to come up to me and tell me I was going to hell....I would try and remember the song....let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me. I refuse to make someone elses views define me, nor will I be provoked to defend something that to me doesnt need to be defended. My concern is the person I am and who I want to be, not the person who might be harassing me. But, thats just my way of being in the world.

Trust me, sometimes I struggle with a desire to just haul off and slug an idiot. But thats just not who I am or who I want to be.

[key]

It was also VERY telling about just how 'compassionate' these conservatives are.


One of the things that makes me so concerned about what I'm seeing and the actions of the national GOP leadership (who are standing in a puddle of gasoline and playing with a lighter) is that I can't yet tell if we are dealing with the British circa 1940, the Americans circa 1960 or the Germans circa 1936. What I saw the other day, in the pictures of those Tea Party protesters throwing money at this man with Parkinson's was closer to the latter than the former two. What I saw were the healthy and strong chomping at the bit to do something to the weak and sick.


Cheers
Aj

Have you read the book "They Thought They Were Free"
The Germans, 1933-45 by Milton Mayer

he interviews people (Non Jews) who lived through the Holocaust. Here is an excerpt:

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

Key: I think for the time being we have a fundamentally decent leader in the Whitehouse so we (hopefully) will not see any huge loss of rights, and we may even see some gaining of rights (DADT being repealed) but the scariest thing going on right now is the Supreme Court being so tilted towards corporate facism. This Fascism paired with these ignorant tea partiers is a dangerous combination indeed.

Perhaps in Germany, if the right people had done the right thing (hello, Christian Churches?) things would have been different.

[Dean Thoreau]

kobi, Someone comes up to you hollering stuff,,,mean stuff slurs and all that crap.......
do what my daughter does....slap the shit out of them!

or my other daughter............slaps the shit out of them!

or what my other daughter does.......... "tells the person...I love You and then makes kissy faces at them"

or what my other daughter does....she says "Excuse me but i am a heathen leasbian witch,,careful or i will cast a spell that all your children will grow up and be democrats!"



or me.....i just start grunting and groaning and call the person uncle bill and keep asking where my butterscotch pudding is.....(they seem to run).


All i know is Kobi i agree stop letitng people tell you to open your mind, see both sides and all that crap....
enuf with having to be the wiser, kinder, gentler soul...dont show you are a bigger person by not responding or responding with kindness,,,,
i at long last agree with my daughters and say dont be a doormat
slap the crap out of them!

:hippie:

[AtLast]

The most powerful image of this whole health care debate (or screaming match if you will) is the man with Parkinson's disease who simply sat in front of the people who were wanting to deny him health care (to be his personal death panel).

His name is Robert Letcher, he has a PhD and was a nuclear engineer before being diagnosed with Parkinson's 15 years ago.

He is also a Martial Artist and he said he used his breathing exercises while he sat there and absorbed the hatred and condescension that was being violently hurled at him.

Personally I consider him an American Hero because of that moment.

Like Martin Luther King Jr, like Gandhi, like others have shown us throughout civil rights struggles in the past

pure and centered, righteous peace in the face of injustice really can change people's hearts. And when you have changed their hearts, they will change their minds

:praying:

Yes, this struck me deeply. Change of heart, exactly. I am having a hard time with all of this because I turned 59 today and for the very first time in my life (have been an activist for decades), and no longer believe much heart changing will happen in what is left of my life. And for the first time, I am seriously considering leaving the US. Very seriously. At least an african American has been elected president, but my well of hope is drying up.

[Soft*Silver]

for you, ALH, and all others who are tired soldiers, who have lugged signs or signed petitions or sat in large groups or jumped on buses or formed a human fence...who are greyer now, move stiffer, and see not quite as well...I say this...

it seems as though all your work has been naught enough. You look around Today and you think, where is all my effort? Surely there has to be more progress....more noticable change? When I look on tv or on the internet or listen to the radio, Why do I not hear how radical the differences are? Why does it seem its all in vain...why is there not enought change?

to you, I say,

to you, who battled to open domestic violence shelters when women were still considered objects

for you who fought to make rape a crime of power and not an act of unrequited lust

for you who said 46 cents to a man's dollar is not enough for a woman to live on

for you who said racial intolerance is unacceptable and dared to drink at the only the fountains as anyone could....

for you who said education should be for everyone, not just the 12% who own 95% of the nation's wealth

for you who saw children and knew they had no rights...and committed to them a career that most would never want

for you who understood that saying "he" and "mankind" to refer to all of humankind was WRONG

for you who dreamed a life where orientations could co-exist together in a non hierarchal platform in the nation, let alone a neighborhood

for you who voted and voted and voted AND VOTED to put the right people in...

for you who fought wars to protect our nation and for you who fought so wars wouldnt be needed to be fought...

for you who made the statment "hate is not a family value" a household phrase

for you, I thank you....

and caution you...not to look ahead and think of how much is yet needing to be done. Each generation has their own legacies that they inherit, of what is still not done. Instead, look back and see all that has been done ....

by you

the individual

and the era's collective heroes...

and while your work is done, oh silver ones...yes, THE work is not all done.

So to those young who step up to the plate...

thank you

for continuing onward....




=AtLastHome;71638]
Yes, this struck me deeply. Change of heart, exactly. I am having a hard time with all of this because I turned 59 today and for the very first time in my life (have been an activist for decades), and no longer believe much heart changing will happen in what is left of my life. And for the first time, I am seriously considering leaving the US. Very seriously. At least an african American has been elected president, but my well of hope is drying up. [/QUOTE]

[dreadgeek]

.
enuf with having to be the wiser, kinder, gentler soul...dont show you are a bigger person by not responding or responding with kindness,,,,
i at long last agree with my daughters and say dont be a doormat
slap the crap out of them!

:hippie:

When I was a wee young baby dyke, my friend and mentor, Bubba a self-described 'leftist, gay, redneck' who is the most wonderful bear you ever want to meet, bought a gun. He did so because he was hobbling around with one foot in a big brace, with one eye ready to crash if he took a blow to the head, and a T-cell count that was headed in the wrong direction. He was out, as much as his health would allow, doing Narcotics Anonymous and work with HIV/AIDS information. He said he needed a gun to protect himself. I couldn't agree with him at the time. We argued about it. At the time, Bubba had been out for twenty years having come out, in North Caroline no less, in 1973 while a student at UNC Asheville. He'd grown tired of having to take it and wasn't going to live out whatever time he had left in fear of some homophobe come up from San Jose or down from Fresno for a weekend's 'hunting' as some young men were wont to do during the early 90's.

Now, 17 years later and I have just entered my third decade out of the closet, I have a great deal more sympathy for where he was and I have to admit, I was wrong then. I thought I knew what I was talking about at the time, I didn't.

No, I haven't bought a gun (yet) and most likely wouldn't carry if (when) I did but simply for home defense.

I'm not arguing nor would I, in any ordinary circumstances, argue in favor of getting in people's faces and matching blow for blow. If there's a way *to* walk away, I think one *should* walk away. That said, I also believe that I do not owe the bigots the favor of being walked upon. I do not think I have to understand their bigotry, I think I have to accept that there will always be bigots and that we should order society in such a way that we minimize the effects of bigotry--including our own. I hope I hold no foolish prejudices and that I am always mindful of the old Pogo cartoon "we have met the enemy and he is us". But should I have prejudices or bigotry I hold, I do not want my problem to become someone else's problem.

Your daughter's reactions rock!

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

I have not read that although it's now on my list. (If there had been a Kindle edition I would have bought it but alas, no) The last book on the period that I read was "Hitler's Willing Executioner's" by Daniel Goldhagen. It was a chilling book because it really brings home the reality of Hannah Arendt's phrase "the banality of evil".

Terry Pratchett , as usual, manages to describe it wonderfully:

"And what it means is this: that there are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal, kindly family man who just comes to work every day and has a job to do."

Cheers
Aj

Have you read the book "They Thought They Were Free"
The Germans, 1933-45 by Milton Mayer

he interviews people (Non Jews) who lived through the Holocaust. Here is an excerpt:

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

Key: I think for the time being we have a fundamentally decent leader in the Whitehouse so we (hopefully) will not see any huge loss of rights, and we may even see some gaining of rights (DADT being repealed) but the scariest thing going on right now is the Supreme Court being so tilted towards corporate facism. This Fascism paired with these ignorant tea partiers is a dangerous combination indeed.

Perhaps in Germany, if the right people had done the right thing (hello, Christian Churches?) things would have been different.

[key]

Yes, this struck me deeply. Change of heart, exactly. I am having a hard time with all of this because I turned 59 today and for the very first time in my life (have been an activist for decades), and no longer believe much heart changing will happen in what is left of my life. And for the first time, I am seriously considering leaving the US. Very seriously. At least an african American has been elected president, but my well of hope is drying up.

Have you ever listened to Thom Hartman? He is on AM radio stations. the smartest man (regarding politics and US history in particular) I know alive today. And also very courteous and respectful even as he argues for liberal principles. He is really quite refreshing! Sort of the Anti-Glenn Beck, though is much more than that, more like a professor, as he deals in facts, but is very entertaining and easy to listen to.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/

Anyway, he is always reminding his listeners about how this moment we are in is part of the larger story of our very young, very immature nation. If you do not know of him I just wanted to turn you, and everyone on to him. he might be able to replenish some of your hope reserves.

Happy Birthday BTW.


:pacman:

[Soft*Silver]

from our guy in Ohio...

YouTube- Congressman Ryan Denounces Protestor Behavior

[AtLast]

Have you ever listened to Thom Hartman? He is on AM radio stations. the smartest man (regarding politics and US history in particular) I know alive today. And also very courteous and respectful even as he argues for liberal principles. He is really quite refreshing! Sort of the Anti-Glenn Beck, though is much more than that, more like a professor, as he deals in facts, but is very entertaining and easy to listen to.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/

Anyway, he is always reminding his listeners about how this moment we are in is part of the larger story of our very young, very immature nation. If you do not know of him I just wanted to turn you, and everyone on to him. he might be able to replenish some of your hope reserves.

Happy Birthday BTW.

Thank you!

yes, I have listened to Thom and am inspired. he does not scream his convictions and gives historical back-up. I think the last couple of days have just been rough with the kind of hatred I have been seeing while following the Health-Care-Reform voting and debates. Also this past year and the Tea Bag loonies. The town hall meetings in which the man with Parkinson's had money thrown at him by those assbites just sent me over the edge.

But, I do need to listen to Hartman more often. Thanks.


:pacman:

for you, ALH, and all others who are tired soldiers, who have lugged signs or signed petitions or sat in large groups or jumped on buses or formed a human fence...who are greyer now, move stiffer, and see not quite as well...I say this...

it seems as though all your work has been naught enough. You look around Today and you think, where is all my effort? Surely there has to be more progress....more noticable change? When I look on tv or on the internet or listen to the radio, Why do I not hear how radical the differences are? Why does it seem its all in vain...why is there not enought change?
to you, I say,

to you, who battled to open domestic violence shelters when women were still considered objects

for you who fought to make rape a crime of power and not an act of unrequited lust

for you who said 46 cents to a man's dollar is not enough for a woman to live on

for you who said racial intolerance is unacceptable and dared to drink at the only the fountains as anyone could....

for you who said education should be for everyone, not just the 12% who own 95% of the nation's wealth

for you who saw children and knew they had no rights...and committed to them a career that most would never want

for you who understood that saying "he" and "mankind" to refer to all of humankind was WRONG

for you who dreamed a life where orientations could co-exist together in a non hierarchal platform in the nation, let alone a neighborhood

for you who voted and voted and voted AND VOTED to put the right people in...

for you who fought wars to protect our nation and for you who fought so wars wouldnt be needed to be fought...

for you who made the statment "hate is not a family value" a household phrase

for you, I thank you....

and caution you...not to look ahead and think of how much is yet needing to be done. Each generation has their own legacies that they inherit, of what is still not done. Instead, look back and see all that has been done ....

by you

the individual

and the era's collective heroes...

and while your work is done, oh silver ones...yes, THE work is not all done.

So to those young who step up to the plate...

thank you

for continuing onward....




=AtLastHome;71638]
Yes, this struck me deeply. Change of heart, exactly. I am having a hard time with all of this because I turned 59 today and for the very first time in my life (have been an activist for decades), and no longer believe much heart changing will happen in what is left of my life. And for the first time, I am seriously considering leaving the US. Very seriously. At least an african American has been elected president, but my well of hope is drying up. [/QUOTE]



Thank you.... I needed this. Very disillusioned of late. To the point of just pain in terms of the human cruelty around us. Yes, I do get tired and frustrated.

What I need to focus on when I feel this way is what I experienced with working along side much younger people during Obama's run. I was encouraged by seeing students back in the process and people that have never voted. On election night walking in SF to the election parties and seeing the street filled with bright, young, hopeful people did my heart good. I just am feeling that this energy must continue during such times as mid-term elections. And even though I can get mad at Obama about some things, I know that it is very important that I continue to support him and others I voted for. I have to get the energy to once again, and get back to the precinct work needed before November.

Just feeling so frustrated! And in many ways, I want to hand off the candles to younger folks. Live a little more of my own life for me.

Last night while watching some political strategists on CNN I was so angry with not just GOP analysts BS about these infractions in DC, but also those from the Dems making excuses for this behavior! They talked about how high tempers were and how both parties were reacting via being tired. So, that means that this kind of behavior can go on without taking some responsibility with making it clear that it will not be tolerated? The GOP wants the tea Bag votes and frankly, so do the Dems! The only people that said they were offended and made it clear that this behavior cannot be tolerated were the African American analysts! However, the head of the GOP national Committee, an African American man, made excuses for this, too! THERE IS NO EXCUSE!!! They are just courting votes and do not give a damn about this display of bigotry!!

[Jess]

Perhaps it is just my simpleton way of viewing things, but I personally feel that it is time for a clear cut anti-discrimination/ pro human rights bill/ law in this country. When FDR said " we have nothing to fear...." and when LBJ said " until we are all color blind.." and when Clinton said.."don't ask don't tell".. they were all well meaning in their attempts for us to put aside our fears and bigotry. Even though years later, those very ideas may have become outdated and even in some cases failed miserably, these leaders tried to make a difference.

We are at a point in our brief history where once again the population is bubbling over with fear and discrimination and it is obvious every time we turn on the news or open our computers. The way I see it, Pres Obama has the perfect opportunity and in my opinion, obligation to help end all of that. Not because he is a POC, but because he is our leader. In much the same way that our little planet here is attempting to discuss and create an anti- discrimination statement, our country should be doing the same thing. It could end DADT, DOMA, and a great many of our healthcare issues, by simply stating "we are all equal" under they eyes of the law. Gays can marry and receive equal benefits. Differently abled or ( sick) people can get healthcare without risk of losing homes/ properties. POC cannot be denied jobs/ housing/ growth opportunities based on skin color or ethnicity.

We should have "hate laws" that reflect discrimination on it's many levels. I agree with dreadgeek in that we can't legislate "prejudice" or "thought". We can however legislate behavior. Senators/ Congressmen especially should be held to higher standards, as they represent larger groups. Sanction/ fine their asses when they show them. I like the statement Linus posted regarding CAN and how they view the "freedom of speech" notion.

For me, we elect officials to go in there and do a job. If they aren't doing it then we have been dubbed and hopefully we will replace them with someone else we think will do it. I don't know exactly what "the" answer is regarding our politicians and our ongoing discrimination in this country. I do however feel strongly that a human rights bill would go a great distance in ensuring a more level playing field. How do we do that without becoming "big brother" ? Do we need more government involvement in our personal lives? Where does thought end and action begin? How do we truly move from the "dark age" to an enlightened equal country?

I think it is very easy for us to see what is "wrong", but it is very difficult to create laws that truly do make things just for everyone. There will be resistance to any movement that takes away "privilege" as some folks see it, as they equate what they have come to know as their "rights" for "privilege". Someone mentioned car insurance and wondered if it was not the same as health insurance. Well, frankly, it's not. The "privilege" of driving a car on state and federally maintained and monitored highways, is just that , a "privilege". Having healthcare available for all human beings should be a "right".

Perhaps in all of our distraction with this healthcare reform ( which falls short of the goal) we should be more focused on human rights. It just feels an awful lot like we are doing ( as a nation) what modern medicine does. Fix the symptom and not the illness.

My 2 cents about the "dark age" of politics, that's all.

[Soft*Silver]

[B]THERE IS NO EXCUSE!!! They are just courting votes and do not give a damn about this display of bigotry!![/B[/COLOR][/FONT]][/QUOTE]

Mr Smitty the one eyed rocking on limping kitty says that sometimes a skid-daddle is just a skid-daddle and not a run for anything but...

to transcribe that, he means, sometimes politics are just politics and not actually have any basis in being political. We who work the trenches and not the policies can never forget thats its all politics! ...because we know that its all personal, and that all personal is political. But those who practice policy, laws, words, not WE the People, well, sometimes they just run crazy with their words to justify their neediness to win their battles...

[Zimmeh]

I read this book for my Psych 305 class, Motivation and Leadership. Thus book made my skin crawl to the point as to where I never finished it and gave it away.

I will never own such an evil book again.

Zimmy

I have not read that although it's now on my list. (If there had been a Kindle edition I would have bought it but alas, no) The last book on the period that I read was "Hitler's Willing Executioner's" by Daniel Goldhagen. It was a chilling book because it really brings home the reality of Hannah Arendt's phrase "the banality of evil".

Terry Pratchett , as usual, manages to describe it wonderfully:

"And what it means is this: that there are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal, kindly family man who just comes to work every day and has a job to do."

Cheers
Aj

[Greyson]

I invite you to join in this effort of letting our elected officials and the US Capitol Police know, we as a people will not sit passively and quietly while this assault upon our elected officials takes place in our nation's capitol while doing the work of our nation.

Where was the US Capitol Police when United States Congressmen were being spat upon and being subjected to implied threats, racists and homophobic comments?

Must we wait for one of them to be seriously and permanently injured or worse? I think not. It is time to take back OUR country from the Right Wing Extremist that are leading this Republic down the path of destruction.

For the record, if Left leaning people were acting in this same manner, I would be just as disturbed by such despicable behavior.

Finally, please do not give me the "Freedom of Speech" sentiment. It is not Freedom of Speech to use hateful disparaging language that incites fear and to spit upon another human being.


_____________________________________________
Ray Taliaferro - KGO Talk Radio

Tuesday, March 23, 2010

1:00a.m. - 5:00a.m.: Ray expresses his outrage over a group of tea party protesters who on Saturday menaced and harassed three Black Democratic lawmakers, including Rep. John Lewis (D-GA), a hero of the civil rights movement, Representatives André Carson of Indiana, and Emanuel Cleaver II of Missouri. The protesters hurled the N-word at the Congressmen as they walked to the Capitol to hear President Obama’s final speech on healthcare reform. One of the lawmakers, Emanuel Cleaver was spat upon. Teapartiers also shouted the homophobic slur “faggot” and “homo” to Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), as the group laughed. Ray is encouraging KGO listeners to express their outrage over the spitting and slurs directed at the lawmakers.

To express your outrage, contact Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi's District Office in San Francisco at (415) 556-4862 or her Capitol office in Washington, D.C. at (202) 225-4965. Email Congresswoman Pelosi at: AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov

To register a complaint with the United States Capitol Police, call (202) 224-9806.

To reach the Congressional Switchboard, dial 1-866-220-0044 and ask to be connected to your district representative's office.

[Zimmeh]

Thank you AtLast for starting this thread! I live in a state I refer to as Hell. Two years ago come early June, I found out what rights I had in this state. My former boss asked me to come into her office. She informed me that I was being written up for sexual harassment. I giggled at this thought since I know the laws about this. I then informed her that it was really about me being gay, it was a female dominated job and they were all straight; and I would use my sexual discrimination card if she tried me. Needless to say she wrote me up for causing an intimidating work environment. After I left work that night, I contacted the ACLU and told them everything and then emailed my HR rep. By the time I was done, that company had the ACLU watching them and she was severely reprimanded. I left that company on June 27th and I don't regret anything I did. I wasn't going to allow that company to mistreat ppl and get away with it.

That is why until someone gets elected as governor here, we will never have any rights,

Zimmy

[dreadgeek]

I read this book for my Psych 305 class, Motivation and Leadership. Thus book made my skin crawl to the point as to where I never finished it and gave it away.

I will never own such an evil book again.

Zimmy

I'm curious. What was evil about the book? It's a hard book. It's a disturbing book. But I thought that Goldhagen bent over backward to be fair, accurate and scholarly. I never got the feeling that he was writing an anti-German book rather was debunking a widely held myth: that the Holocaust was committed by SS men without the knowledge of the German populace.

Cheers
Aj

[Zimmeh]

Hey AJ,

That is what I meant by evil. The book is very disturbing and one I can honestly say I never could finish. It was a book the professor recommended since our report was on Hitler.

Have a good day,

Zimmy

I'm curious. What was evil about the book? It's a hard book. It's a disturbing book. But I thought that Goldhagen bent over backward to be fair, accurate and scholarly. I never got the feeling that he was writing an anti-German book rather was debunking a widely held myth: that the Holocaust was committed by SS men without the knowledge of the German populace.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Hey AJ,

That is what I meant by evil. The book is very disturbing and one I can honestly say I never could finish. It was a book the professor recommended since our report was on Hitler.

Have a good day,

Zimmy

Okay, thank you. I thought that's what you meant but I wasn't sure so I thought I would ask.

[Linus]

Uh... FAIL! This is so wrong on many levels. It's disrespectful, invasion of privacy and potentially dangerous. I hope that this individual is held responsible for any criminal activities that happen as a result of this (emphasis mine):

Source: POLITICO (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34843.html)

A tea party organizer angry over Rep. Thomas Perriello’s (D-Va.) vote in favor of health care reform published what he thought was the freshman member’s home address on a blog, in case any readers “want to drop by” and provide a “personal touch” to their views.



Rather than giving out Perriello’s address however, the tea party activist mistakenly printed the home address of the congressman’s brother. Perriello’s brother and wife have four children under the age of 8.




In the post, the author gives out the address to his “friends” in Perriello’s district.

“Just in case any of his friends and neighbors want to drop by and say hi and express their thanks regarding his vote for health care,” the author writes. “I personally believe it’s so important for representatives to remain fully grounded and to remember exactly what it is their constituents are saying and how they are telling them to vote. Nothing quite does that like a good face-to-face chat. It has a much more personal touch to it.”

The post does not have a byline but was published on a blog run by an organizer for the Lynchburg Tea Party, a member of the group confirmed to POLITICO. There is no contact information on the blog, but POLITICO has been able to trace the blog to Mike Troxel, an organizer for the Lynchburg Tea Party who has been active in the organization since it launched last year.



In an interview with POLITICO, Troxel admitted to writing the post and said that he has no intention of removing the address from the blog.




Troxel found the address through a directory website and said he would only replace what he currently has on the blog with an address provided by Perriello’s office.


<snip>

[dreadgeek]

Uh... FAIL! This is so wrong on many levels. It's disrespectful, invasion of privacy and potentially dangerous. I hope that this individual is held responsible for any criminal activities that happen as a result of this (emphasis mine):

This is getting more and more disturbing. What's interesting is that more and more very respectable names are starting to sound alarm bells about what we are discussing here:

Bob Herbert's column in today's NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/opinion/23herbert.html?ref=opinion)

John Zogby's piece at Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/frightening-gop-behavior_b_508969.html)


Chris Hedges' piece on this subject at Alternet (http://www.alternet.org/media/146005/we_stand_on_the_cusp_of_one_of_humanity%27s_most_d angerous_moments/)

Stephen Schlesinger's piece at HuffPo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-schlesinger/the-party-of-anger_b_508252.html)

Dana Milbank's piece in yesterday's Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/21/AR2010032103484.html)

I single these pieces (that I would highly recommend reading when you have a spare 30 minutes) out because of *who* they are by. Herbert, Hedges and Milbank are absolutely mainstream, consensus journalists. Zogby is a mainstream and highly respected pollster. Schlesinger is a fairly mainstream scholar. With no insult to either Noam Chomsky or Amy Goodman meant, but if *they* are claiming that right-wing conservatives are a frightening threat to our democratic republic that's no big deal. Dog bites man, no news. But when you have mainstream, consensus journalists, historians or other scholars starting to say it then it's time to sit up and take notice. I'm familiar with everyone *but* Schlesinger and not a one of them strikes me as anyone's radical with Hedges coming closest and still, to my mind, missing it by a comfortable margin.

We truly do live in interesting times.

Oh and let me also recommend a very good but sobering book that is available free online. It is The Authoritarians (http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/) by Bob Altemeyer. I became aware of Altemeyer's work when I read John Dean's "Conservatives without Conscience" a couple of years ago. Altemeyer has done excellent and apparently exhaustive work on right-wing authoritarians. He is giving the book away in PDF format or you can get it as an audiobook as well but that will cost you about $15.00.

Cheers
Aj

[Soft*Silver]

that political blogger is a prime example of political vigilantee-ism at its worst...

I am horrified over the blatant overt uncoded deliberate HATE that is being use to intimidate and breed fear into the lives of individuals for the "good" of the masses these idiots are thinking they are serving. This is no more than fanaticism...terror in a different degree but terror none the less...

it was one thing, wasnt it, when they went after the abortion doctors

it was one thing when they went after the little girl who needed a drink of water from the water fountain

it was one thing when LGBT wanted a public place to gather and not be harassed by police

it was one thing when they targeted illegal immigrants

and it was one thing they refused to hear the cry of the religious who arent christians...


but now..they refuse to hear themselves...

they arent hiding behind politics..they are lashing out in the name of politics..

now we REALLY get to see them for who they really are..

they arent as polished and as shiny as the mighty knights they made them out to be, to save the nation against the sins of their unacceptables...

now we see them and their angry bigoted hateful souls....

I knew this day was coming...now the world is changed forever more...most will think it didnt make a difference...

but I know better...the pandora's box has been opened and now they cannot hide behind their sheep's clothing...

[dreadgeek]

This is a fantastic piece!

Here's the beginning and it only gets MUCH better after that:

Dear Conservative Americans,

The years have not been kind to you. I grew up in a profoundly Republican home, so I can remember when you wore a very different face than the one we see now. You've lost me and you've lost most of America. Because I believe having responsible choices is important to democracy, I'd like to give you some advice and an invitation.

First, the invitation: Come back to us.

Now the advice. You're going to have to come up with a platform that isn't built on a foundation of cowardice: fear of people with colors, religions, cultures and sex lives that differ from your own; fear of reform in banking, health care, energy; fantasy fears of America being transformed into an Islamic nation, into social/commun/fasc-ism, into a disarmed populace put in internment camps; and more. But you have work to do even before you take on that task.

Your party -- the GOP -- and the conservative end of the American political spectrum has become irresponsible and irrational. Worse, it's tolerating, promoting and celebrating prejudice and hatred. Let me provide some expamples -- by no means an exhaustive list -- of where the Right as gotten itself stuck in a swamp of hypocrisy, hyperbole, historical inaccuracy and hatred.

If you're going to regain your stature as a party of rational, responsible people, you'll have to start by draining this swamp:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/a/m/americandad/2010/03/an-open-letter-to-conservative.php?ref=mp

[QueSeraSera]

Ok this maybe totally off topic sice it's not political.... But, I moved to Mississippi 3 months ago. And never in my life have I heard the N word used more in my life!!!! And they just don't blink an eye. I myself have been called a "Damn Yankee" "Coon" " N_____ Lover" To my face on many many occasion. In the 3 months that I have been here. I never in my life thought that in 2010 a place would exist like that. But, it does deeply here. Ppl in this town are proud to be rasist! And truly this town is stuck in 1950!! This is the main reason that I will be moving in the next to weeks to the place I used to call home. Wher I can be friends with who I was. Date who I want. And Live how I want. And The N word isn't part of everyday conversation.



Til another time......


P.S. Again may not be on topic.... But, I found on Youtube awhile back a thing by Bill Maher Titled America Isn't Number One.... Worth Checkin out in My Book.......

[AtLast]

Ok this maybe totally off topic sice it's not political.... But, I moved to Mississippi 3 months ago. And never in my life have I heard the N word used more in my life!!!! And they just don't blink an eye. I myself have been called a "Damn Yankee" "Coon" " N_____ Lover" To my face on many many occasion. In the 3 months that I have been here. I never in my life thought that in 2010 a place would exist like that. But, it does deeply here. Ppl in this town are proud to be rasist! And truly this town is stuck in 1950!! This is the main reason that I will be moving in the next to weeks to the place I used to call home. Wher I can be friends with who I was. Date who I want. And Live how I want. And The N word isn't part of everyday conversation.



Til another time......


P.S. Again may not be on topic.... But, I found on Youtube awhile back a thing by Bill Maher Titled America Isn't Number One.... Worth Checkin out in My Book.......

Yes, Maher's take is qworth a look!

Wishing you the best in getting the hell out of there!

[AtLast]

This is a fantastic piece!

Here's the beginning and it only gets MUCH better after that:

Dear Conservative Americans,

The years have not been kind to you. I grew up in a profoundly Republican home, so I can remember when you wore a very different face than the one we see now. You've lost me and you've lost most of America. Because I believe having responsible choices is important to democracy, I'd like to give you some advice and an invitation.

First, the invitation: Come back to us.

Now the advice. You're going to have to come up with a platform that isn't built on a foundation of cowardice: fear of people with colors, religions, cultures and sex lives that differ from your own; fear of reform in banking, health care, energy; fantasy fears of America being transformed into an Islamic nation, into social/commun/fasc-ism, into a disarmed populace put in internment camps; and more. But you have work to do even before you take on that task.

Your party -- the GOP -- and the conservative end of the American political spectrum has become irresponsible and irrational. Worse, it's tolerating, promoting and celebrating prejudice and hatred. Let me provide some expamples -- by no means an exhaustive list -- of where the Right as gotten itself stuck in a swamp of hypocrisy, hyperbole, historical inaccuracy and hatred.

If you're going to regain your stature as a party of rational, responsible people, you'll have to start by draining this swamp:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/a/m/americandad/2010/03/an-open-letter-to-conservative.php?ref=mp

I have never been registered Republican (been a Dem, Green and now Independent), but, I sure do remember it being a very different party! Thanks for posting this!

:elefant: Drained Elephants find your way back home!!!

[AtLast]

BUMPING this post- USE THESE phone numbers! Send letters, emails... this has to STOP!! ACT!!! Thanks Greyson.

I invite you to join in this effort of letting our elected officials and the US Capitol Police know, we as a people will not sit passively and quietly while this assault upon our elected officials takes place in our nation's capitol while doing the work of our nation.

Where was the US Capitol Police when United States Congressmen were being spat upon and being subjected to implied threats, racists and homophobic comments?

Must we wait for one of them to be seriously and permanently injured or worse? I think not. It is time to take back OUR country from the Right Wing Extremist that are leading this Republic down the path of destruction.

For the record, if Left leaning people were acting in this same manner, I would be just as disturbed by such despicable behavior.

Finally, please do not give me the "Freedom of Speech" sentiment. It is not Freedom of Speech to use hateful disparaging language that incites fear and to spit upon another human being.


_____________________________________________
Ray Taliaferro - KGO Talk Radio

Tuesday, March 23, 2010

1:00a.m. - 5:00a.m.: Ray expresses his outrage over a group of tea party protesters who on Saturday menaced and harassed three Black Democratic lawmakers, including Rep. John Lewis (D-GA), a hero of the civil rights movement, Representatives André Carson of Indiana, and Emanuel Cleaver II of Missouri. The protesters hurled the N-word at the Congressmen as they walked to the Capitol to hear President Obama’s final speech on healthcare reform. One of the lawmakers, Emanuel Cleaver was spat upon. Teapartiers also shouted the homophobic slur “faggot” and “homo” to Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), as the group laughed. Ray is encouraging KGO listeners to express their outrage over the spitting and slurs directed at the lawmakers.

To express your outrage, contact Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi's District Office in San Francisco at (415) 556-4862 or her Capitol office in Washington, D.C. at (202) 225-4965. Email Congresswoman Pelosi at: AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov

To register a complaint with the United States Capitol Police, call (202) 224-9806.

To reach the Congressional Switchboard, dial 1-866-220-0044 and ask to be connected to your district representative's office.

[key]

so any comparisons I make in this thread I make knowing full well that they are incomplete and inadequate. I post anyway.

Imagine the US in the early 1770's. Imagine being a revolutionary thinker like Thomas Payne. Imagine the courage it took to question the authority of the strongest military, the mightiest empire on the planet. It blows my mind that the signers of the Declaration of Independence were literally signing their own death warrants - if things had gone differently.

The courage and ACTION that is required today is no less (but no more) than what was required then. The sad thing is that the enemy today is within our midsts. I am very sad to say that my own blood relative brothers an sisters, while I would never expect them to spit on or yell derogatory remarks, get their information and encouragement from the same sources as those that do.

If I could have my way I would file our country for a no fault divorce. The divide that led to the civil war is still with us. It has just been festering underground. The only thing that has changed after the civil war is that on the surface, our better angels prevailed. Our lesser devils went underground. The house that was divided then, is still divided. I wish we could just split up once and for all. I do not regret that Lincoln kept the states together, because slavery (in America) ended (even that went "away" into far off lands, but still has not ended).

I would honestly like to start a secession party. For the good of all of us. This may be the one area where the sane and crazies among us can agree.


:mob:

[AtLast]

Although, I can't get behind the Coffee Party movement (too conservative, but might help drain the Tea Party swamp, dunno...) , this quote says a lot to me-

"If our children acted like our politicians are acting right now they would be grounded for a very long time," says Ryan Clayton, a Coffee Party spokesperson in Washington DC.

I do understand why people are freaked about our national debt. It does hurt us all. I want the new Health-Care Reform actions to be fully funded so that they can work! But there has to be a way for this concern to be addressed in a manner other than via racist lunatics!

While watching Obama sign the health-Care Reform Bill, I cried for my neighbor and best buddy, Kenny. An African American man that died 3 years ago as a 57 year old, uninsured citizen. A hard working self-employed carpenter with a heart of gold. He was such a good friend to me. As I saw him getting sick, and not being able to get diagnostic care as well cancer treatment, I was outraged. Yet, he represents so many. Other people's relatives and buddies, parents, kids. I also cried for Kenny when Obama was elected because Kenny didn't live to see him take office.

Kenny had all of the untreated ailments that so many uninsured POC have (high blood pressure, etc.) that are easily treated with preventative care and access to medical care. His cancer might very well have been detected in time for it to be treated. His mother (in her late 80's) does have SS and MediCare, but can't afford supplemental insurance. She skips taking prescription medications she needs continually.

And kenny's common-law wife had to work and could not be home with him as he was failing. I used to go over during the day and fix him lunch and watch sports with him. I loved spending this time with him, but saw how his wife earned to be able to be with him during his last weeks and days.

I am so tired of these conditions in the USA.... and I am happy to pay more in taxes if it gets to needing more $ from people under that $200,000/year mark. My property taxes are nuts, but, if somehow they had an attached tax for health care for all, I will pay it with a smile. And, I have no problem at all with any immigrant of any status getting health care. To raise healthy, productive children, parents need to be healthy!

Sure, I feel the impact of higher taxes and want the government to make sure they stop fraud and abuse in our health care systems (MediCare), but there is no way that I want private insurance companies to continue make profits of over 400% on my back and have people go without medical care!

[Bit]

I would honestly like to start a secession party. For the good of all of us. This may be the one area where the sane and crazies among us can agree.

Then they win, and the fanatics have succeeded in taking your own country away from you.

I used to be a Libertarian, back in my idealistic days. I used to believe the federal government had overstepped its bounds, that the individual states' rights were being eroded, that the individual citizens were being taxed unfairly and wrongly.

I don't believe those things anymore. I believe that only the federal government (including the federal judiciary system) has the ability to force the states to respect the rights of all individual citizens, and I believe that it is foolish to believe that we could run a country this size without taxes. I also believe we pay lower taxes than most similarly developed countries.

Are we under attack? Oh yes, indeed. Is it bringing out the very worst in some of our citizens? Oh yes, indeed. Will it probably need national outrage at the corporate greed and inflamed bigotry to get our country back? Oh yes, indeed.

This is the time, right now when we most want to give up, to leave, to withdraw from the fray and just let them have the place, this is the time when we are most urgently needed.

There are loads of ways to make a difference. I have never, ever been a politically active person, but I found a way to make my voice heard after the voting booth. I joined change.org and they routinely send me alerts that include emails to send to my Congressperson. Here is their link about the Tea Party.

http://www.change.org/petitions/view/tell_congressional_republicans_to_denounce_the_vic ious_tea_party_attacks (http://www.change.org/petitions/view/tell_congressional_republicans_to_denounce_the_vic ious_tea_party_attacks)

I also joined Organizing For America. They send me emails that include the direct phone numbers to my Congresspeople, so that I can call and register my wishes on any particular issue.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

There are other ways which are more active, but even these small ways can be part of the bulwark that stands firm and says, "no more hate!"

Please, don't go away. Don't be diverted by the seeming power of hate. Don't allow them to take your own country away from you. Take positive action, even a very small positive action, even so small as signing petitions and sending emails--because every positive action YOU take will double the positive action I take, and together we will double the positive actions taken by just two of our friends, and together we will double the positive action taken by four of our neighbors--and soon WE will be the sweeping tide of change, unstoppable, demanding that our country be run for the good of all.

Please, now is when we need you the very most. Please, don't go.

[Zimmeh]

You are welcome and thanks for asking for clarification. Have you read a book called, "Things Fall Apart?" by Achebe? If you haven't it is a good historical book.

Have a good day,

Zimmy

Okay, thank you. I thought that's what you meant but I wasn't sure so I thought I would ask.

[Zimmeh]

Good Afternoon AtLast,

When I resigned from my job and put in for a transfer with my company so I could move to be with my ex, my regional manager terminated me and I lost my health insurance. I received the paperwork to continue the COBRA coverage, but it is over $500 a month, which I cannot afford since I no longer have a job. Since this is a right to work state, he can fire me for anything...

Have a good day,

Zimmy

Although, I can't get behind the Coffee Party movement (too conservative, but might help drain the Tea Party swamp, dunno...) , this quote says a lot to me-

"If our children acted like our politicians are acting right now they would be grounded for a very long time," says Ryan Clayton, a Coffee Party spokesperson in Washington DC.

I do understand why people are freaked about our national debt. It does hurt us all. I want the new Health-Care Reform actions to be fully funded so that they can work! But there has to be a way for this concern to be addressed in a manner other than via racist lunatics!

While watching Obama sign the health-Care Reform Bill, I cried for my neighbor and best buddy, Kenny. An African American man that died 3 years ago as a 57 year old, uninsured citizen. A hard working self-employed carpenter with a heart of gold. He was such a good friend to me. As I saw him getting sick, and not being able to get diagnostic care as well cancer treatment, I was outraged. Yet, he represents so many. Other people's relatives and buddies, parents, kids. I also cried for Kenny when Obama was elected because Kenny didn't live to see him take office.

Kenny had all of the untreated ailments that so many uninsured POC have (high blood pressure, etc.) that are easily treated with preventative care and access to medical care. His cancer might very well have been detected in time for it to be treated. His mother (in her late 80's) does have SS and MediCare, but can't afford supplemental insurance. She skips taking prescription medications she needs continually.

And kenny's common-law wife had to work and could not be home with him as he was failing. I used to go over during the day and fix him lunch and watch sports with him. I loved spending this time with him, but saw how his wife earned to be able to be with him during his last weeks and days.

I am so tired of these conditions in the USA.... and I am happy to pay more in taxes if it gets to needing more $ from people under that $200,000/year mark. My property taxes are nuts, but, if somehow they had an attached tax for health care for all, I will pay it with a smile. And, I have no problem at all with any immigrant of any status getting health care. To raise healthy, productive children, parents need to be healthy!

Sure, I feel the impact of higher taxes and want the government to make sure they stop fraud and abuse in our health care systems (MediCare), but there is no way that I want private insurance companies to continue make profits of over 400% on my back and have people go without medical care!

[AtLast]

WOW, that is as much as I pay per month for a group policy myself, which is high- I'm stuck with this at the moment due to pre-existing conditions. So, as soon as the part of the new bill goes into effect banning the pre-existing refusal, I will look around. And I live in a state that is usually more expensive in every damn thing!

Now, from what I can tell (and yes, I have been watching this closely all year), the new legislation will also cut the costs for high risk policies or eliminate them.

I know we have to wait out the complete process of implementation of the new legislation, but, I think you may now have a chance for some coverage within 6 months that is more affordable.

I in no way see this as a panacea, only a single-payer system would be that for me. I also know that I am in a group of people that will not reap much savings for a few years. But, I am OK with this for now because of the millions more that will get some coverage and preventive care. I am especially concerned with poor people that are at such risk with obesity (including their kids) and things like diabetes. They have no means to get care and education about nutrition and better ways to prepare food.

What is so amazing to me is that this has brought to the forefront the most ugly of the ugly of people that have so much and don't want to give a little for others to become more healthy. This will cut costs in the long run as well as give people a fighting chance. We have to get people to stop using ER rooms for primary care! That is such a waste of money!!

I have been thinking about a way to just have a small group in my home to teach food preparation that cuts down fat intake. Trying to figure a way to start this. Maybe via my community center where I live. I would love having a few teen mothers on a rotational basis to just bring them some basics. Gotta explore how I might be able to do this. No gourmet here, but have some good basic skills with low-fat cooking.

One really great thing about retirement is having time to do these sorts of things. yes, my working and professional life gave me a lot of satisfaction, but, this is another way to feel this in a much broader sense.


Good Afternoon AtLast,

When I resigned from my job and put in for a transfer with my company so I could move to be with my ex, my regional manager terminated me and I lost my health insurance. I received the paperwork to continue the COBRA coverage, but it is over $500 a month, which I cannot afford since I no longer have a job. Since this is a right to work state, he can fire me for anything...

Have a good day,

Zimmy

[MsDemeanor]

I received the paperwork to continue the COBRA coverage, but it is over $500 a month, which I cannot afford since I no longer have a job.

Could you afford it if it was only $175 a month?

COBRA Continuation Coverage Assistance Under ARRA

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA), as amended on March 2, 2010 by the Temporary Extension Act of 2010, provides for premium reductions for health benefits under the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985, commonly called COBRA. Eligible individuals pay only 35 percent of their COBRA premiums and the remaining 65 percent is reimbursed to the coverage provider through a tax credit. To qualify, individuals must experience a COBRA qualifying event that is the involuntary termination of a covered employee's employment. The involuntary termination must generally occur during the period that began September 1, 2008 and ends on March 31, 2010. (An involuntary termination of employment that occurs on or after March 2, 2010 but by March 31, 2010 and follows a qualifying event that was a reduction of hours that occurred at any time from September 1, 2008 through March 31, 2010 is also a qualifying event for purposes of ARRA.) The premium reduction applies to periods of health coverage that began on or after February 17, 2009 and lasts for up to 15 months. See Temporary Extension Act of 2010 (http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/pdf/HR4691.pdf).

linkyloo (http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/cobra.html)

[AtLast]

GOP, step away from the Tea Party
After the racist and homophobic insults used at a rally against healthcare reform, Republicans should Denounce the Tea Party

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/mar/22/tea-party-healthcare-rally-racist-homophobic


Lola Adesioye

Over the past year, the Tea Party movement has grown to the point where it can get a great deal of press attention and exposure. While that may be a good thing for the Tea Party, it is proving to be not necessarily so for the Republican party, which has jumped onto the Tea Party bandwagon.
Some Republicans may have become affiliated with the Tea Party movement in the hope of aligning themselves with an invigorated and energetic grassroots conservative movement. Instead, Republicans are now finding themselves in alignment with a movement in which some members feel that it is OK to shout out racist and homophobic insults (including the N-word) and spit at Congressmen as happened this weekend when the Tea Party protested against healthcare reform on Capitol Hill.
Despite the weekend's shocking behaviour – one Congressman and civil rights leader, John Lewis, said he had not experienced such attacks since the 1960s – Republicans, particularly GOP chairman Michael Steele, spent the weekend defending and rationalising those Tea Party goers' actions. This is dangerous ground for the Republican party.
There are some benefits of getting involved in a movement that is not clearly defined. The Tea Party was originally framed in the media as an umbrella movement for a bunch of disgruntled Conservatives, whatever their discontent may be. On that level, the Tea Party presented an opportunity for Republicans to gain some leverage.
The flip side is that a movement with no specific cause attracts all sorts of people with all sorts of agendas, which can put the GOP in a tricky position, and potentially turn important voters against them. The idea of what a "conservative" or "Republican" is continues to be shaped and distorted by a minority of people on the fringes who get the most attention. This does nothing to attract new supporters or independents and it may indeed turn off existing, more moderate Republican supporters. This is not a good strategy for the 2010 elections – unless that is, the GOP is looking to portray itself as a very rightwing, almost extremist party.
The obstructionist attitude may have worked while healthcare reform was still going through Congress, but with its passing, it is likely that public sentiment may continue to warm in the president's direction. The fringe elements of the Tea Party will only start to look more and more repulsive which would only harm the Republicans, making them look even more narrow and one-dimensional.
"Appealing to the base" seems to be a key concern of Republicans, but if the base is the type of people who were at the rally this weekend and Republicans do not denounce that type of behaviour, the Tea Party may start to be of more harm to the Republicans than good. Yet, this all leads back to the question that was raised after Barack Obama's election, which is what the GOP actually stands for. Right now, it looks like the Tea Party is getting to say who the Republicans are. And that's a type of tea that many people might not want to drink come election time.

*********************

FYI- Huff Post article on the 13 Attorneys General Threaten Lawsuit Over Health Care Reform

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/30/13-attorneys-general-thre_n_407684.html

*********************

And-
Obama, Democrats Begin Reaping Political Benefits Of Reform

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/23/obama-democrats-begin-rea_n_510563.html

"Only hours after the president signed health care reform legislation into law on Tuesday, the immediate political benefits for the Democratic Party are already coming into focus...." read more via the link...

[Zimmeh]

Good Evening Ms,

Thank you for this information and yes I could afford it.

Have a good evening,

Zimmy

Could you afford it if it was only $175 a month?

COBRA Continuation Coverage Assistance Under ARRA

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA), as amended on March 2, 2010 by the Temporary Extension Act of 2010, provides for premium reductions for health benefits under the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985, commonly called COBRA. Eligible individuals pay only 35 percent of their COBRA premiums and the remaining 65 percent is reimbursed to the coverage provider through a tax credit. To qualify, individuals must experience a COBRA qualifying event that is the involuntary termination of a covered employee's employment. The involuntary termination must generally occur during the period that began September 1, 2008 and ends on March 31, 2010. (An involuntary termination of employment that occurs on or after March 2, 2010 but by March 31, 2010 and follows a qualifying event that was a reduction of hours that occurred at any time from September 1, 2008 through March 31, 2010 is also a qualifying event for purposes of ARRA.) The premium reduction applies to periods of health coverage that began on or after February 17, 2009 and lasts for up to 15 months. See Temporary Extension Act of 2010 (http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/pdf/HR4691.pdf).

linkyloo (http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/cobra.html)

[MsDemeanor]

Thank you for this information and yes I could afford it.
Very cool!!!

[Linus]

Uh... FAIL! This is so wrong on many levels. It's disrespectful, invasion of privacy and potentially dangerous. I hope that this individual is held responsible for any criminal activities that happen as a result of this (emphasis mine):

As a follow-up to this, apparently someone severed the propane tank hose. The original guy claims he's "a little shocked and amazed.".

Really?! Responsibility not required, huh?


(emphasis mine)

Source: Daily Progress (http://www2.dailyprogress.com/cdp/news/local/crime/article/damage_at_home_of_perriello_brother_under_investig ation/54038/)


Updated: 1:55 p.m. Federal and local authorities are investigating a severed gas line at the home of U.S. Rep. Tom Perriello’s brother, discovered the day after Tea Party activists posted the address online so opponents could “drop by” and “express their thanks” for Perriello’s vote in favor of health care reform.

The gas line connected a propane tank to a gas grill on the home’s screened-in porch, according to sources in Tom Perriello’s office.
The incident is being viewed as an attempted threat to a member of congress, sources said.

Two members of the conservative Tea Party groups in Danville and Lynchburg posted the home’s address online Monday, mistakenly believing it belonged to the congressman. The home actually belongs to Bo Perriello, the congressman’s older brother.

The local FBI field office and the Albemarle County fire marshal are investigating the incident. Police have stepped up patrols in the area as well.

Albemarle County spokeswoman Lee Catlin confirmed that county authorities are investigating an incident at Bo Perriello’s home in cooperation with the FBI, but she said she cannot comment on the specifics because it is an ongoing investigation.

“The Fire Marshal’s Office is conducting the investigation in cooperation with the FBI,” Catlin said. “While officials are not willing to characterize the exact nature of the incident because of the ongoing investigation, it did not involve an immediate threat to occupants of the residence. Officials are taking the incident very seriously and conducting a vigorous investigation. Additional details will be released as the investigation continues.”

M.A. Myers, a spokesman with the FBI’s Richmond field office, confirmed that the agency is “aware” of the severing of the gas line at Bo Perriello’s house.

“At this point, all I can really confirm is that we are aware of that situation,” he said.

Danville Tea Party leader Nigel Coleman was one of the two activists who posted Bo Perriello’s address online Monday.

“This is Rep. Thomas Stuart Price Perriello’s home address,” Coleman wrote Monday. “… I ain’t holding back anymore!!”

According to the Danville Register & Bee site, when Coleman learned that the address actually belonged to the congressman’s brother, he responded on a blog: “Do you mean I posted his brother’s address on my Facebook? Oh well, collateral damage.”
Coleman told The Daily Progress today that he is “shocked” and “almost speechless” at the possibility that someone would sever the propane line to Perriello’s brother’s house.

“I obviously condemn these actions,” he said. “I would hope that people aren’t thinking about doing anything crazy. We just wanted people to get close to the congressman and have their voices heard. Violence is not going to answer anything. I’m a little shocked and amazed.”

Coleman added that he is not certain that the incident is related to the posting of the home’s address. “Of course, we don’t know this is a related event,” he said.

[Jess]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/78184879.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1269461391&Signature=JWYgBESLoFlOaCIVW15Ew7gg5hc%3D

I'm sure Sarah Palin would be " shocked and almost speechless" if anyone interpreted her "targets" as "cross hairs". When will folks learn to accept their responsibility in the power of "suggestion".

[AtLast]

As a follow-up to this, apparently someone severed the propane tank hose. The original guy claims he's "a little shocked and amazed.".

Really?! Responsibility not required, huh?


(emphasis mine)

What the hell is going on?? Thanks for posting this.

[Linus]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/78184879.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1269461391&Signature=JWYgBESLoFlOaCIVW15Ew7gg5hc%3D

I'm sure Sarah Palin would be " shocked and almost speechless" if anyone interpreted her "targets" as "cross hairs". When will folks learn to accept their responsibility in the power of "suggestion".

Someone yanked that picture from the link. Do you have it somewhere still?

[Jess]

http://twitpic.com/1ajru7

I saw it on Rachel Maddow last night.. pulled it off the site above.

[MsDemeanor]

I'm concerned about April 19th. April 19th was the start of the American Revolution, the Branch Davidian fire, and the Oklahoma bombing. This year, the tea baggers and the gun nuts are staging events all over the country, including a 2nd Amendment gathering in DC. I've heard that they are also having a big 'bring your guns' gathering at a park in Virginia, supposedly the closest location that they could find to DC where they can tote their guns in public. Obama is speaking about health care that day in Virginia, too.

In regards to the 2nd Amendment rally, um, jackasses, Obama supports the 2nd Amendment and gun owners' rights. Get a fucking clue.

[SuperFemme]

Gas line cut at home of Va. congressman's brother
By DENA POTTER Associated Press Writer © 2010 The Associated Press
March 24, 2010, 2:04PM

RICHMOND, Va. — Authorities are investigating a severed propane line at the home of a Virginia congressman's brother after tea party activists posted the man's address online.

Activists are upset about U.S. Rep. Tom Perriello's vote in favor of the health care reform.

Perriello's office said that a line to a propane tank on a gas grill was cut at Bo Periello's Charlottesville home on Tuesday. Tea party activists had posted the address online thinking it was the congressman's home, telling opponents to drop by and "express their thanks" for his vote.

Albemarle County spokeswoman Lee Catlin said the county fire marshal's office was assisting the Federal Bureau of Investigation. She said investigators didn't believe the home's occupants were in danger.

[AtLast]

I'm concerned about April 19th. April 19th was the start of the American Revolution, the Branch Davidian fire, and the Oklahoma bombing. This year, the tea baggers and the gun nuts are staging events all over the country, including a 2nd Amendment gathering in DC. I've heard that they are also having a big 'bring your guns' gathering at a park in Virginia, supposedly the closest location that they could find to DC where they can tote their guns in public. Obama is speaking about health care that day in Virginia, too.
In regards to the 2nd Amendment rally, um, jackasses, Obama supports the 2nd Amendment and gun owners' rights. Get a fucking clue.

Whoa.. April 19!

What I am finding lately is that I get the same dreded feelings as I did back in the 60's when civil unrest resulted in violence. Doesn't matter what political or ideological sentiments are involved. It is remembering the people killed (Kent State, the assinations of JFK, MLK, & RFK, the race related rioting and burnings, for example) and hurt, the crazy eyes, the hateful eyes, the absence of reason. The lack of regard for human life.... all of our lives. I don't want to go back to that, not the violence.

I believe in our right to protest and demonstrate. I just don't want bloodshed. And I see so many politicians stoking the fire in order to gain power and frankly bring down a Democratic/perceived as far-left African American president. African American is the operative detail, I honestly believe.

:titantic: We are sinking into such power mongering and hate.

[Bit]

.... bring down a Democratic/perceived as far-left African American president. African American is the operative detail, I honestly believe.

I believe this, too. I believe this has nothing at all to do with politics in the sense of bills and amendments, etc, and everything to do with politics in the sense of racial hatred.

I'm still praying for the safety of everyone associated with the White House.

[AtLast]

I believe this, too. I believe this has nothing at all to do with politics in the sense of bills and amendments, etc, and everything to do with politics in the sense of racial hatred.

I'm still praying for the safety of everyone associated with the White House.

I know, me too. I remember the day JFK was shot and exactly how I felt, even at the age of 12. It was one of the most horrid days of my life. Not so much because my parents backed him, but just having it happen, knowing the hate goes to that level.

I know all president's have threats, but Obama has many more threats than most do. I was not happy when that couple made their way into a White House affair... did not feel that Obama and his family are being protected as good as can be.

[Diva]

Great article:

> > Linky Loo (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/opinion/27blow.html) < <

[Soft*Silver]

And he finished strongly with the most beautiful words: "You may want “your country back,” but you can’t have it. That sound you hear is the relentless, irrepressible march of change. Welcome to America: The Remix."

WOOO HOOO! SO thats what I have been hearing...my gut can feel like its kicked in but as long as I hear the sounds of change, I know the old is breaking off and the new is being chiseled strongly in place....




Great article:

> > Linky Loo (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/opinion/27blow.html) < <

[Soft*Silver]

Ijust caught this on yahoo...refering to Sarah Palin "Now a Fox News analyst and potential 2012 presidential candidate, Palin faced criticism after posting a map on her Facebook page that had circles and cross hairs over 20 Democratic districts. She also sent a tweet saying, "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!"

She said Saturday she wasn't inciting violence, just trying to inspire people to get involved."

really? RELOAD isnt inciting violence?

Oh my goodness....this is not going to be getting any better, is it?

[AtLast]

Great article:

> > Linky Loo (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/opinion/27blow.html) < <




Very fine article- love this from it....

Even the optics must be irritating. A woman (Nancy Pelosi) pushed the health care bill through the House. The bill’s most visible and vocal proponents included a gay man (Barney Frank) and a Jew (Anthony Weiner). And the black man in the White House signed the bill into law. It’s enough to make a good old boy go crazy.

Thanks, Diva!

[AtLast]

Ijust caught this on yahoo...refering to Sarah Palin "Now a Fox News analyst and potential 2012 presidential candidate, Palin faced criticism after posting a map on her Facebook page that had circles and cross hairs over 20 Democratic districts. She also sent a tweet saying, "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!"

She said Saturday she wasn't inciting violence, just trying to inspire people to get involved."

really? RELOAD isnt inciting violence?

Oh my goodness....this is not going to be getting any better, is it?



She is sooooooo nuts! But scary in that she does draw out the right-wing extremists in a way that they feel comfortable using racist, et. al. slurs and posters with Obama as Hitler, etc. She gives them license by being what is considered to be a viable candidate and spokeswoman for common folk.Circles and cross hairs plus RELOAD and she doesn't get that this incites violence? Wait, of courswe she doesn't....

[Soft*Silver]

she is a very dangerous person. We can poke fun at her all we want, but she is by no means powerless...AND ... those IN power are grooming her carefully. My biggest fear is that she will win the next presidential race. When she quit being governor and was being very quiet about her plans, I Knew she was being offered something beyond her immediate power. The mutiny wont come with this president..the mutiny will come with her as president...



She is sooooooo nuts! But scary in that she does draw out the right-wing extremists in a way that they feel comfortable using racist, et. al. slurs and posters with Obama as Hitler, etc. She gives them license by being what is considered to be a viable candidate and spokeswoman for common folk.Circles and cross hairs plus RELOAD and she doesn't get that this incites violence? Wait, of courswe she doesn't....

[socialjustice_fsu]

Sarah Palin is going to have to be reckoned with...that is a certainty. Yes, she calls out the extremists but does so in an unbelievably uncanny way. She pumps 'them' up...sort of incites the old riot...and then seizes more of a powerbase. The Tea Party has money. Lots of it. And it is a powerbase whether we like it or not. She was paid a handsome fee for her keynote speech only to donate it back to her cause. She is a talking head with a whole lot of clout from the right wing and she is positioning herself quite well at this point in time. The media joins in the ranks and 'projects' the general population as seeing President Obama in an unfavorable light thus making it fertile ground for someone of Palin's character (or lack thereof) to lock in the powerbases. I thought my days of political activism had moved to the back burner...but the thought of Palin even running on a ticket makes me want to step up to the plate and re-think what to do with my time, money and talent.

[Soft*Silver]

and just in case no one else might not warn you, let me...

if you are of weak knees, flimsy stances, conquerable ethics and fearful existances, beware. Get your name taken off lists NOW. Stop your subscriptions NOW. Dont web around where you shouldnt, NOW.

they ARE coming...and they will find you if you arent careful NOW....

and no I am not paranoid. Those of you old enough, remember...when the favor splits and havoc plays on the sense of right from wrong, moral elitists will form groups to select out those who they deem sinful and will make it illegal.

if you think we dont have a seperation of church from state now, just wait...

the hockey mom who wears Jesus around her belt, slings a powerful halo and will use it ring us in....

careful now..you have been warned ahead of time...

[AtLast]

she is a very dangerous person. We can poke fun at her all we want, but she is by no means powerless...AND ... those IN power are grooming her carefully. My biggest fear is that she will win the next presidential race. When she quit being governor and was being very quiet about her plans, I Knew she was being offered something beyond her immediate power. The mutiny wont come with this president..the mutiny will come with her as president...

Actually, I have always viewed her as dangerous because of the grooming she was given and still is. I knew we were not going to see the last of her after MCCain lost. Oh, no, she is not powerless and the tide is ripe for a backlash to stop Obama in getting re-elected. After seeing Reagan elected Govenor of CA and then elected as president for two terms as well as GW Bush, I believe she could end up president. Obama is the exception in having intellect.

[Cyclopea]

http://www.fabulousafter40.com/images/sarah-palin-updo.jpg
YouTube- Palin's Face Turned Into a Maze

[Soft*Silver]

corn nuts...:badscore:

http://www.fabulousafter40.com/images/sarah-palin-updo.jpg
YouTube- Palin's Face Turned Into a Maze (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACaqFtVHviE)

[AtLast]

and just in case no one else might not warn you, let me...

if you are of weak knees, flimsy stances, conquerable ethics and fearful existances, beware. Get your name taken off lists NOW. Stop your subscriptions NOW. Dont web around where you shouldnt, NOW.

they ARE coming...and they will find you if you arent careful NOW....

and no I am not paranoid. Those of you old enough, remember...when the favor splits and havoc plays on the sense of right from wrong, moral elitists will form groups to select out those who they deem sinful and will make it illegal.

if you think we dont have a seperation of church from state now, just wait...

the hockey mom who wears Jesus around her belt, slings a powerful halo and will use it ring us in....

careful now..you have been warned ahead of time...

Thank you, Ma'am... I feared that all of the new blood that was involved in getting Obama elected would fade after the election and that we would be where we are with the 2010 midterms. Let us not forget Clinton and the '96 midterm elections... and Newt! And Rove is still workin' the crowds- has a new book out!

Right now, it is very important to be firing-up the progressive and liberal masses, folks! November is just around the corner! Our work did not end with Obama's election!

[Soft*Silver]

"our work did not end with Obama's election"

Indeed..it only began...

I am terrified that people will now sit back and rest their hands over their plump little bellies (me included, as in plump little belly) and bask in our credits of having elected the first black president.

While we are doing that, the Non-Obamas (the NO's) are quietly and quicklye gathering forces ... and momentum...

if you dont like what you are seeing and hearing...trust that what you are not hearing and seeing would make your skin crawl...

history is going to repeat itself....unless we get working on our sand bags...cuz that "damn" is rising...

[Rockinonahigh]

We all new change was comeing even if Hillary had gotten on office insted of Obama.Im not surprised at whats happend in the last year.Obama has given the gop plenty of time to work with him as a team puting this country to rights and on a leval playing feild with the modern world on many issues.This hasnt happened and we know why...the gop has owned this country for a long time and they hate loseing it,hell ist made them richer and the rich richer,the rest of us can work ourselves to the bone and have little or nothing but the scraps of what the repubs toss out.Will we have to meet them at a line drawn in the sand?OMG! I hope not,but I really think we will at some point cause Palin is/has and will keep feeding them the same retoric she has been no matter how she white washes it she preaches hate,raceism and intolernce..not to mention classism.Its not even about religion..thtas just one more prop they are useing to build up the fires of hate...nothing worse than a religious was..look at the two wars we are in.In reality I know the dems arent going to just let them march in a d take it away with out one dam fine fight to hold on to the new USA that is forming as we speak.U bet im not giveing it up and I doubt anyone who wants to have a real life will.

[SuperFemme]

YouTube- No You Can't (Featuring John Boehner)

[Gryph]

I'm curious. What was evil about the book? It's a hard book. It's a disturbing book. But I thought that Goldhagen bent over backward to be fair, accurate and scholarly. I never got the feeling that he was writing an anti-German book rather was debunking a widely held myth: that the Holocaust was committed by SS men without the knowledge of the German populace.

Cheers
Aj


I've never read the book, but I spent some time in Germany as a soldier. I had several friends among the "Nationals" as we called the German citizens. I heard time and again from those who were alive in that day and age, just how scary it was and how you complied with Hitlers laws, because if you didn't you and your family would be the next ones to end up in a camp somewhere.

One of my favorite friends had been a nurse at that time and she felt so bad for so much of her life after the war ended, because of what she couldn't do to help those who were the camp she worked in.

Unfortunately I see the same mentality in those who are calling the names, as I saw in the Brown Shirts from the history movies.

[Gryph]

and just in case no one else might not warn you, let me...

if you are of weak knees, flimsy stances, conquerable ethics and fearful existances, beware. Get your name taken off lists NOW. Stop your subscriptions NOW. Dont web around where you shouldnt, NOW.

they ARE coming...and they will find you if you arent careful NOW....

and no I am not paranoid. Those of you old enough, remember...when the favor splits and havoc plays on the sense of right from wrong, moral elitists will form groups to select out those who they deem sinful and will make it illegal.

if you think we dont have a seperation of church from state now, just wait...

the hockey mom who wears Jesus around her belt, slings a powerful halo and will use it ring us in....

careful now..you have been warned ahead of time...


Only one thing.

I DON'T RUN, let them come.
After all I thought for sure during Shrub's time in office I'd piss someone off enough with my emails and my political rants blog, that I would end up in jail for my beliefs.

[Bit]

Another great article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/opinion/28rich.html?src=me&ref=general


The only thing which will stop them in their tracks is if we who are not racist--the true Silent Majority in the US today--stand up and say to the Teabaggers and to the Republican party, "Racism is NOT acceptable in the USA; racism is NOT a family value; racism is NOT patriotic!"

[Linus]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/29/michigan.arrests/index.html?hpt=T1

And so it begins. :( The reality is that the militia groups that exist in the US have been here for a while. But I wonder if latest developments have given them reason to stand up and become more active in their behaviour.

[MsDemeanor]

The Southern Poverty Law Center tracks militia groups and the have noted a great increase in activity. These groups ebb and flow; they were quite active during Clinton, then quieted down during Bush II.

The SPLC has loads of information, including maps, at their web site. splcenter.org

[AtLast]

The Southern Poverty Law Center tracks militia groups and the have noted a great increase in activity. These groups ebb and flow; they were quite active during Clinton, then quieted down during Bush II.

The SPLC has loads of information, including maps, at their web site. splcenter.org




This site is terrific, thanks.

Obama's election and the recession have a lot to do with the increase in activity. Yes, they have always been around, and will continue to be. I just think it is very important to speak-out about this activity.

Bit- you are right, it is up to the silent majority to stop the silence. I am not naive enough to believe that these idiots will ever change, but, I don't have to accept what they say and do.

The GOP is actually courting tea baggers! They want their votes!!!

:nixon: Nixon... he coined the term Silent Majority...

[Linus]

Uh.. whut?! Really??

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/c-span-caller-rails-against-black-callers.php/


A caller to C-Span this morning, who identified himself as a Republican from North Carolina, accused the network of taking too many phone calls from black people.

"You have black folks calling in on the Republican line, independents. And you have so many of 'em I can't believe this is just an accident. If you keep on with the way you've been programming, you should change your name from C-Span to black-span," he said. "I know they have an opinion but I wish that they would be honest and call in on the right line."


"Everyone one of 'em thinks that Obama is Jesus Christ and they don't like when anybody criticizes him," he added.
Every time I think that a new low is hit... I find an even lower one.

[Soft*Silver]

if this wasnt so damn seriously profanely WRONG, I could almost laugh at it...

Uh.. whut?! Really??

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/c-span-caller-rails-against-black-callers.php/


Every time I think that a new low is hit... I find an even lower one.

[AtLast]

Uh.. whut?! Really??

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/c-span-caller-rails-against-black-callers.php/


Every time I think that a new low is hit... I find an even lower one.

This absolutely amazing!! Yes, a new low.... I share a planet with this idiot!!!

:wtf:

[Rockinonahigh]

Recently I was sent an email from someone who lives a long way from me asking about something thay herd.Seems like ,near in my home town (so says the artical)that the local police has gotten close to 300 ex police and militare ppl to work as an backup to the popo if needed.The artical mentioned a war wagon to combat whatever it is needed to.They are very careful to not call it a millita(sp?),,dureing the mardigras parade they bhad something the news caster called the war wagon in the thing...my god it looks like something out of madd maxx.Scary it is that after all the effin bs we all went thrue in the 60's to think it will happen all over cause of neantherthall mentality of the gop.