The Gendering of the Young

[Nat]

sb9eL3ejXmE

I'm not sure if anybody has seen this vid or if it's already been posted elsewhere, but basically it's a kid who is really enjoying Beyonce's "All the Single Ladies" until his father tells him he's not one.

The gendering of children - even newborn (well even prenatal) babies - is so common and expected. How do you feel about it? Do you participate in it? Do you work to counteract it?

[The_Lady_Snow]

In our household we try to counteract,,,,,:wateringgarden:

[DapperButch]

Yes, in my life, counteract.

In the father's, defense though, I think that his unconscious response is not unlike most peoples due to what we internalized growing up about gender. He seemed to immediately realize his mistake when he saw his child's face drop, and seemed to feel genuinely bad about it.

But yes, I agree that it is a big issue in our society and I think that it is a great thread topic. :)

[Cyclopea]

Awwww....what a cute little boy! Looks like he's not a big fan of sexism. Dad had a little feminist epiphany tho. Too cute.

[Andrew, Jr.]

This reminds me of my childhood.

[Greyson]

Hey there Natalie the Pure One. I saw the video sometime last week and it was very thought provoking for me. It made me think because I know I could say such a thing as "You're not a girl" to my young son without realizing the ramifications.

Always something to learn or in this case "unlearn." Good to see you here.

[NJFemmie]

I once dated a woman (butch) who had two daughters and a son. Her dream was to see her son grow up to be a football player, but it was obvious that he wanted to be more the cheerleader, lol. She would always correct him and say things like "boys aren't cheerleaders" ... and I often found myself correcting her and REMINDING her of how it felt to be gender pressed.

I didn't grow up in a gender defined household. I always said that if I ever had children, they would benefit from the same upbringing.

[evolveme]

sb9eL3ejXmE

The gendering of children - even newborn (well even prenatal) babies - is so common and expected. How do you feel about it? Do you participate in it? Do you work to counteract it?

Hello, lovely. Great thread, as per usual.

When I knew I was pregnant, I picked a name that I knew I would use for a child no matter the sex. It's a word that has meaning and is used in daily language. I'd not heard this word used for a name before. But sure enough, my family members made certain to tell me that they were glad that my child had been born a girl, because what child could be a boy and be called this (very non-gender-specific) name? They were already gendering a word. (I've since learned of a child my daughter's age who shares her name and is a boy.)

I'd also decided that her clothes and toys would be as non-gender-specific as possible. That was a battle that I would have difficulty fighting. Although I stayed home with her for the first year, and she was sent to a very liberal and intentionally diverse nursery and primary school (socio-economic/religious/same-sex parents, etc.), and although I did not expose her to TV or other mainstream media for many years, what I think of as Pink Fairy Barbie Princess Ideology had gotten in. She wanted to be one. She WAS one.

She had the innate ability to create feathered dresses out of paper crafts. Wands out of sticks and glitter. The child was going to be Cinderella goddammit and she did not want to play with the trucks and tools I also supplied her. No way, man. Not happenin'.

I allowed her to be her own someone.

I can't know, and I think none of us can, how much socialization and conditioning work to manufacture and engineer what we think of as the gender norm, and how much of what I consider feminine or masculine arises from the human form naturally, as a matter of course and purpose and biological development. I simply cannot know the degrees. But I do know that if I hadn't finally broken down and bought that kid a Barbie (against my political preference) she would have never forgiven me.

I did NOT cave to the Bratz doll though. No way, man. No fuckin' way.

[julieisafemme]

My child finally did get a Bratz doll from her father. She played with it maybe one or two times and was over it.

My daughter liked boy things when she was little. Her first big girl panties were boys briefs with Thomas the Tank Engine on them. That is what she wanted. Now she likes sparkly pink stuff. I like girl stuff. Is it beacuse I was socialized that way? Maybe. Maybe not. You are exactly right in that it is hard to know what makes up gender.






Hello, lovely. Great thread, as per usual.

When I knew I was pregnant, I picked a name that I knew I would use for a child no matter the sex. It's a word that has meaning and is used in daily language. I'd not heard this word used for a name before. But sure enough, my family members made certain to tell me that they were glad that my child had been born a girl, because what child could be a boy and be called this (very non-gender-specific) name? They were already gendering a word. (I've since learned of a child my daughter's age who shares her name and is a boy.)

I'd also decided that her clothes and toys would be as non-gender-specific as possible. That was a battle that I would have difficulty fighting. Although I stayed home with her for the first year, and she was sent to a very liberal and intentionally diverse nursery and primary school (socio-economic/religious/same-sex parents, etc.), and although I did not expose her to TV or other mainstream media for many years, what I think of as Pink Fairy Barbie Princess Ideology had gotten in. She wanted to be one. She WAS one.

She had the innate ability to create feathered dresses out of paper crafts. Wands out of sticks and glitter. The child was going to be Cinderella goddammit and she did not want to play with the trucks and tools I also supplied her. No way, man. Not happenin'.

I allowed her to be her own someone.

I can't know, and I think none of us can, how much socialization and conditioning work to manufacture and engineer what we think of as the gender norm, and how much of what I consider feminine or masculine arises from the human form naturally, as a matter of course and purpose and biological development. I simply cannot know the degrees. But I do know that if I hadn't finally broken down and bought that kid a Barbie (against my political preference) she would have never forgiven me.

I did NOT cave to the Bratz doll though. No way, man. No fuckin' way.

[evolveme]

My child finally did get a Bratz doll from her father. She played with it maybe one or two times and was over it.

My daughter liked boy things when she was little. Her first big girl panties were boys briefs with Thomas the Tank Engine on them. That is what she wanted. Now she likes sparkly pink stuff. I like girl stuff. Is it beacuse I was socialized that way? Maybe. Maybe not. You are exactly right in that it is hard to know what makes up gender.

Ha! I love her undies! Today, mine is thirteen and wears boxer briefs on occasion. I don't think it's a masculine gesture however. (I think she thinks it's sexy. Kill me.)

P.S. I told my wee one she could have Bratz when they started making an action figure (read: doll) for boys called Jerkz or Idiotz, but not a minute before. ;)

[Gemme]

If I have a child, I'm not going to specifically aim for a gender neutral name, although it may very well happen, but it would not be a primary goal of mine. If I had a child and they felt their name did not fit them, and calling them by a nickname wasn't helping, and it was more than the usual "I hate my name" crap that most kids go through, then I'd help my child look into legally changing their name at an appropriate time (some time after bullies on the playground but before college apps when out).

As for toys and stereotyping sports or careers available to my child based on gender, I'm not having it. If I had a girl that loved Tonka trucks as much as Barbie, then she'll get both. If I had a son that really wanted to dance ballet or be a cheerleader then, by George, I'll do whatever I could to help him reach that goal.

Any child of mine will know two things, even if they forget anything else I will have taught them, they will know:

1. They are LOVED. Every day they will hear this, see this, feel this.
2. The only person(s) that can stop them from reaching their dreams and goals is their own self.

[BornBronson]

I always knew that i was loved by both my parents,but they were raised old school.My father is 81 this month and he alway told me that i could never be like him,which confused me because i'm just like him in many ways.But I suspect he was talking about me physically.My parents didn't care much that I was a tomboy,although i do remember once or twice my mother putting a dress on me,come to think of it it was probably only once,the other time must of been a bad nightmare.I played like a little boy(whatever that means) even though I knew that I was not one.I had two brothers that taught me the ways of being a guy,not that they were both experts themselves.The males in my family are sexist,you know the types,they believe men should look like men,women should look like women.Stuff like that only= insecurity in my book.But at a very young age I knew who I was and I never faught it,I just faught others who insisted that I look more 'womanly'.I was not like any 'normal looking girls' in this family/society,and I took pride in that.Yet still today I fight for who I am,I won't change for anyone,that includes my politics/beliefs/ect.Being a butch woman is a challenge in this world,but I like it.

:darthsmiley:

[Nat]

My mom kinda dressed me butch. She's not super-girly and she didn't inflict supergirly things on me. When she was a little girl, she wanted to be an architect or an archeologist. She was interested in castles - how they were constructed and why. She built little houses for her dolls and then she was done playing with them.

I had a fascination with the barbie stuff. I loved my barbies - loved playing barbies with other girls. I also loved my troll dolls - they were great to play with. I think it was good to have flat-chested, pot-bellied, short, squat, wild-haired, by-no-means-pretty dolls to play with. I made them clothes, I took them outside with me and made homes out of twigs and leaves. I gave them whimsical names. I guess the trolls are what taught me that if you love something or someone enough, you find them beautiful.

I remember when I got to go next door and play with the neighbor boy. He had neat toys. They did things. Transformers, cars, the castle grayskull, games like mousetrap. I remember realizing that there was a difference there and that I didn't know how I ended up with only girl toys. I don't think it was my mom's choice though as much as it was the choice of gift-givers and hand-me-downers. My mom couldn't afford to buy me much.

I have always thought I would name my child a gender-neutral name, though the one I always wanted to name my kid has gotten very popular of late. I think that whatever the deconstructionalists would like to believe about gender, I think people are born with a certain sense of who they are. It may be influenced quite a lot from the external environment, but I think kids know what grates on them gender-wise as much as they know whether or not they like broccolli.

When I was a little kid - ever since I watched the movie Splash, I suppose - I mostly wanted to be a mermaid. To be wild, to have impossibly long hair, to breath under water, to live in the ocean and be magical. I may still want that. That bit of me that's a boy - I think he wants it too.

I have participated in the gendering of the young - at least so far as I've bought girl stuff for baby showers for girls. I don't think I'd do that now though. Kids are so unexpected in their preferences sometimes - it's neat to see without interfering too much. My mom had this whole peter rabbit thing going on with my babyhood - she really did try to avoid gendering me. It was the 70s and all. I still am surprised she doesn't consider herself to be a feminist.

KmmhpXuqWyI

[Medusa]

I saw this thread and was reminded of growing up and being larger than my other brothers and sisters and how that translated to my Mom and step-parents as "She's bigger, she can do "boys" work".

One distinct memory I have is that my Step-Dad owned a used car lot and body shop and he would make me come down to his shop every Saturday morning when I was 8 or 9 and pick up tools, move car parts, stack boxes, etc. He would also make me stack concrete blocks, clean out the horse pens, and bale hay.

I once asked my Mom why I had to help in the garage and work in the barn when my sister didnt have to. Her answer was, "Because your bigger and she's more frilly."

More "frilly" meant "she was a waif and I was a chubster".

Later, this translated into me being seen as "a tomboy", where my sister was a "princess", even though I was asking for the same red Reeboks and miniskirts (It was the 80s!)

Anyone else experience anything like this with size and gender conformity as a child? I know some of us have talked about being adults who are fat and how we are often seen as less feminine because of our size by the outside world.

Great discussion Nat!

[Cyclopea]

Wjehii-jjHE

[Gemme]

Wjehii-jjHE


Nice. Oversexualizing at an early age. When people get upset about the statistics for teen pregnancy, someone should show them this.

This may be the bitch in me speaking, but it would have been better with gay boys. That one girl was all over the place.

[Soon]

I watched that video yesterday and am completely stunned and disgusted at adults allowing, coaching, watching, encouraging (!) these SEVEN year olds performing this sexualized dance.

Appalling.

[betenoire]

Oh my god, that was so inappropriate. I actually started crying because it -upset- me to see little children doing that. :(

[Cyclopea]

I watched that video yesterday and am completely stunned and disgusted at adults allowing, coaching, watching, encouraging (!) these SEVEN year olds performing this sexualized dance.

Appalling.

Right???
The sad thing is that they are SOOOOOOO talented! But the whole Jon Benet Ramsey thing just killed it.
:(

[Fancy]

I showed this version to my son....he loves dancing to Beyonce (and Janet Jackson). :)

3UPGWvAzRJA


Nice. Oversexualizing at an early age. When people get upset about the statistics for teen pregnancy, someone should show them this.

This may be the bitch in me speaking, but it would have been better with gay boys. That one girl was all over the place.

[Cyclopea]

Oh my god, that was so inappropriate. I actually started crying because it -upset- me to see little children doing that. :(

Oh hon! I'm so sorry!
It freaked me out too... :(
One of the problems with gendering the young is that much of what genders "female" has traditionally been serving as an object for the sexualized gaze.
Sad...

[betenoire]

I showed this version to my son....he loves dancing to Beyonce (and Janet Jackson). :)

3UPGWvAzRJA

omg, that's so hot. I got a little bit tingly in my bottom

[betenoire]

Oh hon! I'm so sorry!
It freaked me out too... :(
One of the problems with gendering the young is that much of what genders "female" has traditionally been serving as an object for the sexualized gaze.
Sad...

Don't be sorry. It's not your fault that I'm such a weepypants about stuff like this.

It really -is- fucked that this is what gendering females leads to. You don't see anybody making little boys go about topless with lots of baby oil on or anything (although, thank god for that.)

It just goes to show that to the world at large we -really- aren't worth anything more than what's going on between our legs. So so fucked. :(

This is one of the reasons that I'm never having children.

[SuperFemme]

THIS is the original knock off....and the only one worth watching IMO.

MIFoYzXyE08

[SuperFemme]

Wjehii-jjHE


Well.

That was ten kinds of disturbing wasn't it?
Where the HELL are their parents?

Did Jon Benet Ramsey not teach anyone anything?

[Gemme]

I showed this version to my son....he loves dancing to Beyonce (and Janet Jackson). :)

3UPGWvAzRJA

Thank you! I flippin' love being right.

[Enchantress]

Wjehii-jjHE

I find this absolutely disturbing.

Little girls too young to even have curves or breasts yet, being taught such overtly sexual moves and suggestive ways.

As for the original video, I don't believe the father meant anything offensive. He simply reacted as almost anyone would.

It's impossible to tell in this video if it was meant as a *You're not a girl stop being a sissy way*. I believe that the father was simply playing with his son.

I do find it fascinating though how the child reacted. He's much too young to know that there are boy things and girl things (as placed by society). He simpy went with instinct to have fun and be a part of something. He seems to be not only upset about not being able to do as his sisters were, but also humiliated at the fact that he made some sort of a mistake (or so he thinks). Such moments, even if not in the forefront of our minds, stay with us for a lifetime.

I do not feel that giving a little girl pink things and a little boy blue things makes or breaks their sexuality or sense of being.

Instead, it is when a parent or person of authority berates and forces a child into a role or situation, or does not respect the childs wishes for certain toys and such (based again on what they believe society finds acceptable) that it becomes dangerous, cruel and oppresses their (the childs)spirit.

[Soon]

NkkACaJ_OKU&feature=player_embedded#!

[Emmy]

Goodness, this is really interesting. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Strangely, for the last few weekends, there have been troupes of very young girls in very heavy makeup and very sparkly outfits, presumably for some sort of dance competition, being led around by anxious-looking chaperones on my university campus.

Though it isn't as extreme as in the video posted above, the whole vibe feels exploitative to me. It feels to me like part of a (barely) subterranean campaign (largely driven by financial forces, I think- like marketing for Disney Princess merchandise) to ensure girls know their place in the world, you know? To ensure that they understand, as early as possible, that being pretty is paramount. I am reminded, as well, of when I worked at a science museum gift shop a few years ago. I remember there was this one, maddening section of the store where everything was pink and fluffy and sparkly AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SCIENCE. It seems like a bombardment. :(

Incidentally, a friend of mine who has a (totally awesome and smart and funny) young girl recently posted a link to this site on her Facebook profile: http://pinkstinks.wordpress.com/about/

ETA: For whatever it's worth, I don't actually object to kids' engaging in fantasy that appears to have a gendered cast; if young girls or boys are having a blast wearing tutu's and spinning around and pretending to be princesses or whatever, well, that's awesome :) But there's something else going on here. At the risk of sounding too alarmist, there is a largely economically-motivated campaign, I think, to convince young girls that their worth lies primarily in their appearance and, further, that all sorts of accoutrements must be purchased for them if they're ever to be pretty enough.

[Massive]

I have to say, I've watched this continued sexualtisation of young girls in particular over the past however many years now, the magazines telling them 'how to find a boyfriend', how to 'look sexy', etc and it saddens Me that they're not allowed to just be little girls now. None of these magazines seems to want to hold their hands up and admit that they're just out to make money and don't seem to care that kids aren't being allowed to be innocent any more.
I recently sat and listened to a 10 year old girl who lives behind My home, talking to My 8 year old neighbour, she was playing on the 8 year olds swing in the back garden and she asked the 8 year old "have you had an orgasm yet?" the 8 year old (thankfully) didn't know how to respond and changed the subject, talking about school ... I was horrified, the parents of this 10 year old don't supervise her or her siblings, they're just left to their own devices and, her mother used to be a swinger, part of a group that was advertised online, this same woman is now a social worker working with adults who are incapable of taking proper care of themselves, the whole thing scares Me ...
It makes Me worry what the world is coming to, you know?
Kids don't seem to be allowed to be just kids ...
Even little boys are being shown, on tv and other media, that they should be something they're not.
It just makes Me glad that My 'kids', albeit My adopted ones, are all adults now. I'd hate to see any child of Mine have to be shown values that aren't their own, or at least aren't just accepted because people think 'it's cute' that so and so is acting like some adult when they don't even know what it means yet.

[JustJo]

I absolutely agree with you Massive...thank you.

I was one of those children not allowed a childhood...made to be adult far too young, to worry about adult problems, to be exposed to things that (I think) no child should experience. It caused lasting issues that I still struggle with.

My son is 12, and I encourage and facilitate his being innocent for as long as possible. No, I'm not keeping him in the dark. We've talked about the fact that drugs and alcohol and cigarettes are all out there and things he should avoid and why. We've talked about sex, including the fact that this is something he isn't even remotely close to ready for. We've talked about the fact that there are people out there who will victimize children, and what to be aware of...and also that most people are mostly good and he needn't worry about this. He knows that I am here to protect him, provide for him, and deal with any issues he doesn't feel capable of addressing.

He plays with his dogs, builds with his legos, has lightsaber fights in the backyard, and builds forts with his friends. When he was little he also enjoyed trying on my shoes and jewelry and parading around the house. He doesn't do that anymore, but he still enjoys tea parties, and will instigate and host them for me.

He is sensitive, and knows that feeling is good, that crying is okay, and that both men and women are capable of doing anything they want to do and are willing to work hard at. But mostly, for right now, he is a child. And I want him to be a child for as long as possible. Innocence, once lost, is never regained...and there's a whole lifetime to be a grown-up. :rrose:

[Nat]

http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-riverside-babysitter-charged,0,1999838.story

Cops: Babysitter Struck, Killed Infant

RIVERSIDE, N.Y. (WPIX) - A man is accused of fatally striking a 17-month-old infant he was babysitting Sunday night on the Shinnecock Indian Reservation on Long Island, according to New York State police.

The suspect has been identified as Pedro Jones, 20, of South Hampton. He has been charged with first-degree manslaughter after allegedly hitting the boy "several times throughout his body with close fists" and grabbed him by the neck, according to the felony complaint filed by police.

Authorities say Jones also told them, "I was trying to make him act like a boy instead of a little girl. I never struck that kid that hard before."

The infant, Roy A. Jones, was reportedly found in cardiac arrest and was rushed to Southampton Hospital where he died around 8:30 p.m.

"I just found out my Grandson died last night that's all I know," Donna Collins Smith.told PIX 11 News.

Police said Jones, who is not a member of the Shinnecock nation but lives on the reservation, is the boyfriend of the baby's mother.

"He infiltrated my family through our trust, through the heart of my daughter and then stole the life of her child," said the baby's grandfather Daniel Collins. "I hope the justice system turns around and steals his."

Jones pleaded not guilty during his arraignment Monday at Southampton Town Justice Court. He is currently being held without bail at Suffolk County jail.

Additional charges or the current charge could be upgraded pending the completion of the investigation, police said.

[Soon]

Ads for a FL Martial Arts Academy:

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Yeah, Pops. Nip that gaiety in the ass, and get junior kicking some ass and karate-chopping some wood, all while listening to Eye of the motherfucking Tiger. That'll knock those show tunes out of his head and some sense into him. Other tips: Make him change the oil in your pickup, naked. And take him deer hunting, naked. Better yet, queer hunting. You and your drinking buds can go to a local Miami gay bar and show him how to pound the dust out of some fairies, who hopefully haven't taken martial arts classes at Key Biscayne's RDCA.

http://copyranter.blogspot.com/2010/08/stop-your-burgeoning-little-cross.html

[Nat]

Swedish parents keep 2-year-old's gender secret (http://www.thelocal.se/20232/)

A couple of Swedish parents have stirred up debate in the country by refusing to reveal whether their two-and-a-half-year-old child is a boy or a girl.

Pop’s parents, both 24, made a decision when their baby was born to keep Pop’s sex a secret. Aside from a select few – those who have changed the child’s diaper – nobody knows Pop’s gender; if anyone enquires, Pop’s parents simply say they don’t disclose this information.

In an interview with newspaper Svenska Dagbladet in March, the parents were quoted saying their decision was rooted in the feminist philosophy that gender is a social construction.

“We want Pop to grow up more freely and avoid being forced into a specific gender mould from the outset,” Pop’s mother said. “It's cruel to bring a child into the world with a blue or pink stamp on their forehead.”

The child's parents said so long as they keep Pop’s gender a secret, he or she will be able to avoid preconceived notions of how people should be treated if male or female.

Pop's wardrobe includes everything from dresses to trousers and Pop's hairstyle changes on a regular basis. And Pop usually decides how Pop is going to dress on a given morning.

Although Pop knows that there are physical differences between a boy and a girl, Pop's parents never use personal pronouns when referring to the child – they just say Pop.

"I believe that the self-confidence and personality that Pop has shaped will remain for a lifetime," said Pop's mother.

But while Pop’s parents say they have received supportive feedback from many of their peers, not everyone agrees that their chosen course of action will have a positive outcome.

“Ignoring children's natures simply doesn’t work,” says Susan Pinker, a psychologist and newspaper columnist from Toronto, Canada, who wrote the book The Sexual Paradox, which focuses on sex differences in the workplace.

“Child-rearing should not be about providing an opportunity to prove an ideological point, but about responding to each child’s needs as an individual,” Pinker tells The Local.

“It’s unlikely that they’ll be able to keep this a secret for long. Children are curious about their own identity, and are likely to gravitate towards others of the same sex during free play time in early childhood.”

Pinker says there are many ways that males and females differ from birth; even if gender is kept ‘secret,’ prenatal hormones developed in the second trimester of pregnancy already alter the way the child behaves and feels.

She says once children can speak, males tell aggressive stories 87 per cent of the time, while females only 17 per cent. In a study, children aged two to four were given a task to work together for a reward, and boys used physical tactics 50 times more than girls, she says.

But Swedish gender equality consultant Kristina Henkel says Pop’s parents' experiment might have positive results.

“If the parents are doing this because they want to create a discussion with other adults about why gender is important, then I think they can make a point of it,” Henkel says in a telephone interview with The Local.

“You can talk about there being a non-stereotypical gender; if you are a girl you can do the same as a boy, and if you’re a boy you can do the same as a girl.”

Henkel also says a child's sex can deeply affect how they are treated growing up, and distract them from simply being a human being.

“If the child is dressed up as a girl or boy, it affects them because people see and treat them in a more gender-typical way,” Henkel explains.

“Girls are told they are cute in their dresses, and boys are told they are cool with their car toys. But if you give them no gender they will be seen more as a human or not a stereotype as a boy or girl.”

She says that without these gender stereotypes, children can build character as individuals, not hindered by preconceived notions of what they should be as males or females.

“I think that can make these kids stronger,” Henkel says.

Anna Nordenström, a paediatric endocrinologist at Karolinska Institutet, says it’s hard to know what effects the parents' decision will have on Pop.

“It will affect the child, but it’s hard to say if it will hurt the child,” says Nordenström, who studies hormonal influences on gender development.

“I don’t know what they are trying to achieve. It’s going to make the child different, make them very special.”

She says if Pop is still ‘genderless’ by the time he or she starts school, Pop will certainly receive a lot of attention from classmates.

“We don’t know exactly what determines sexual identity, but it’s not only sexual upbringing,” says Nordenström. “Gender-typical behaviour, sexual preferences and sexual identity usually go together. There are hormonal and other influences that we don’t know that will determine the gender of the child.”

Both Nordenström and Pinker refer to a controversial case from 1967 when a circumcision left one of two twin brothers without a penis. Dr. John Money, who asserted that gender was learned rather than innate, convinced the parents to raise 'David' as 'Brenda' and the child had cosmetic genitalia reconstruction surgery.

She was raised as a female, with girls’ clothes, games and codes of behaviour. The parents never told Brenda the secret until she was a teenager and rebelled against femininity. She then started receiving testosterone injections and underwent another genetic reconstruction process to become David again. David Reimer denounced the experiment as a crushing failure before committing suicide at the age of 38.

“I don’t think that trying to keep a child’s sex a secret will fool anyone, nor do I think it’s wise or ethical,” says Pinker. “As with any family secret, when we try to keep an elemental truth from children, it usually blows up in the parent’s face, via psychosomatic illness or rebellious behaviour.”

But with a second child on the way, Pop's parents have no plans to change what they see as a winning formula. As for Pop, they say they will only reveal the child's sex when Pop thinks it's time.

[Soft*Silver]

omg. I cannot believe they would raise a child with no gender. The power and courage of being human lies in the self acceptance of who we are. To cut thru the primative cultural trappings, go beyond the stereotypes of religion and family, to look into the mirror, that great obsidion mirror and see who we are...that is part of the journey of our evolution, to discover what we are not, as well as what we are.

A child's first few years establish the vase of persona that the body will express for the remainder of its existance. To devoid it of any gender, sets it apart from the rest of its species. How did they not see that by trying to not trap this child in a stereotype that they literally snapped off its connection to the rest of us? Pop stands alone. It could create an ego manical personality as well as a totally isolated and fragmentally alone human being.

Again, in theory this sounds like it would work. In their passion, they are myopic and hopefully nieve and innocent about the developmental damage this could do to POP. In reality, POP stands alone. And in a vast universe, this creates an inflated sense of self as well as a very lonely sense of self.

If we want to war against the stereotypes of gender characteristic assignments, then offer it all to a child and tell them they are not limited.

This just sickens me....feminism at its worst....IMO only....

[Cyclopea]

What an amazing gift, to give Pop an infancy somewhat free from the imposition of the sex-based class system we call gender. Since those changing Pop’s diapers or otherwise viewing Pop’s genitals DO know which class Pop would normally have been assigned to at birth, presumably some gender class programming is still being absorbed by Pop via those who “know”, however subconsciously.

Still, in large part Pop is being consciously raised, at least in Pop’s infancy, as simply human.

Softness you seem to be saying that declining to steep one’s child in the early stages of indoctrination of either male privilege or female subjugation somehow strips Pop of an essential part of what it means to be Human?
That to be raised outside of socially imposed gender class one is rendered outside the whole of humanity?

I don’t see how it's dehumanizing to keep the configuration of a kid’s sex organs private until the child is old enough to consent to and direct ones own place in the gender caste system. It allows Pop the right to develop free from the gender class indoctrination normally imposed based on sex assigned at birth- or even in the womb, if the apparent sex is known.
Pop is truly being given a free human infancy, where Pop is free to develop as a human according to Pop’s own inclinations and characteristics.

How is that damaging?

Feminism is about creating a world where those sexed female at birth are allowed to grow up as fully human. A world free from the class system- gender- that one is assigned at birth based on ones perceived reproductive function.
Why does allowing a child a few early formative years free from that forced indoctrination “sicken” you?

I think Pop is a very lucky kid.

[julieisafemme]

What an amazing gift, to give Pop an infancy somewhat free from the imposition of the sex-based class system we call gender. Since those changing Pop’s diapers or otherwise viewing Pop’s genitals DO know which class Pop would normally have been assigned to at birth, presumably some gender class programming is still being absorbed by Pop via those who “know”, however subconsciously.

Still, in large part Pop is being consciously raised, at least in Pop’s infancy, as simply human.

Softness you seem to be saying that declining to steep one’s child in the early stages of indoctrination of either male privilege or female subjugation somehow strips Pop of an essential part of what it means to be Human?
That to be raised outside of socially imposed gender class one is rendered outside the whole of humanity?

I don’t see how it's dehumanizing to keep the configuration of a kid’s sex organs private until the child is old enough to consent to and direct ones own place in the gender caste system. It allows Pop the right to develop free from the gender class indoctrination normally imposed based on sex assigned at birth- or even in the womb, if the apparent sex is known.
Pop is truly being given a free human infancy, where Pop is free to develop as a human according to Pop’s own inclinations and characteristics.

How is that damaging?

Feminism is about creating a world where those sexed female at birth are allowed to grow up as fully human. A world free from the class system- gender- that one is assigned at birth based on ones perceived reproductive function.
Why does allowing a child a few early formative years free from that forced indoctrination “sicken” you?

I think Pop is a very lucky kid.


Pop is not free from gender class indoctrination. Pop is surrounded by it everyday. Pop can see how men and women interact with one another and how they are treated by others. Pop can see how women and men dress and behave. Pop can also see how Pop's parents react to people of different genders. Pop might see that a woman presenting in a very feminine way is not treated the same as a woman who presents as masculine. This will inform Pop's thoughts and feelings on gender.

Edited to add that I don't think Pop's parents are bad for doing this nor do I think Pop is being harmed.

[Nat]

Yeah but the cage door is left a bit ajar, no?

[Soon]

Nat,

Have you considered making this story a thread unto itself?

I'd love a poll where people agree or disagree with the parents' decision.

I think it might make for an interesting discussion.

[Nat]

Nat,

Have you considered making this story a thread unto itself?

I'd love a poll where people agree or disagree with the parents' decision.

I think it might make for an interesting discussion.

I hadn't, but if you'd like to please do. :)

[Soon]

I hadn't, but if you'd like to please do. :)

I did. I am always anxious with creating polls b/c I am sure I may have left out a viable option or poorly worded it, but I did the best I could.


Thanks for the interesting article!

:)

[Cyclopea]

Pop is not free from gender class indoctrination. Pop is surrounded by it everyday. Pop can see how men and women interact with one another and how they are treated by others. Pop can see how women and men dress and behave. Pop can also see how Pop's parents react to people of different genders. Pop might see that a woman presenting in a very feminine way is not treated the same as a woman who presents as masculine. This will inform Pop's thoughts and feelings on gender.

Edited to add that I don't think Pop's parents are bad for doing this nor do I think Pop is being harmed.

Yes the kid can observe the gender class system with some objectivity since Pop is not yet personally assigned to either class by society at large.

[julieisafemme]

Yes the kid can observe the gender class system with some objectivity since Pop is not yet personally assigned to either class by society at large.


But the child is two years old. I think adults can observe with some objectivity but a toddler cannot. I had not thought about how this would seem to the child until Ruthie mentioned it in the other thread.

[Cyclopea]

But the child is two years old. I think adults can observe with some objectivity but a toddler cannot. I had not thought about how this would seem to the child until Ruthie mentioned it in the other thread.

Not sure what you're saying here julieisafemme... I meant objective observation related to your thoughts posted above (about how Pop can still observe gender class without yet being part of it). I did not mean that two year olds possess adult analytic capacity and abstract thinking, simply that Pop can observe while not yet being a part of.

[julieisafemme]

Not sure what you're saying here julieisafemme... I meant objective observation related to your thoughts posted above (about how Pop can still observe gender class without yet being part of it). I did not mean that two year olds possess adult analytic capacity and abstract thinking, simply that Pop can observe while not yet being a part of.

Ah! I understand. I was kind of speaking more to myself there! When I posted at first I was not really thinking about the child's age. Ruthie brought me back to my own child's toddler days and I started thinking about how would a child view her or himself if their gender was never referred to? I am caught up in trying to imagine this. Children at that age are so concrete and like to label things. Anyway it is a very interesting subject. Sorry to confuse you!

[Cyclopea]

Ah! I understand. I was kind of speaking more to myself there! When I posted at first I was not really thinking about the child's age. Ruthie brought me back to my own child's toddler days and I started thinking about how would a child view her or himself if their gender was never referred to? I am caught up in trying to imagine this. Children at that age are so concrete and like to label things. Anyway it is a very interesting subject. Sorry to confuse you!

Lol that's okay, I'm easily confused...:)
As to how children would view their humanness in the absence of gender class?
They would probably not think of gender much at all if there was no social class status attached. They would be "feminine" or "masculine" or neither or both regardless of their genital configuration. Since there would be no politics attached to their presumed reproductive function it wouldn't really be much of a filter for one's self image.
Whether one had an "inny" or an "outie" would be about it- much like bellybuttons.

[julieisafemme]

Lol that's okay, I'm easily confused...:)
As to how children would view their humanness in the absence of gender class?
They would probably not think of gender much at all if there was no social class status attached. They would be "feminine" or "masculine" or neither or both regardless of their genital configuration. Since there would be no politics attached to their presumed reproductive function it wouldn't really be much of a filter for one's self image.
Whether one had an "inny" or an "outie" would be about it- much like bellybuttons.

This idea of humanness has really caught me. I think I identify as a woman first and human second. I guess I can't imagine being devoid of my gender. My reproductive function is a filter for my self image. I don't find that to be a problem. I love my femaleness and the fact that I carried my child and labored to bring her here and fed her.

You said in another post that "Feminism is about creating a world where those sexed female at birth are allowed to grow up as fully human." I am trying to understand this. Do you mean that feminism's goal is to eradicate gender? Can one grow up to be fully human and a woman as well?

[Cyclopea]

This idea of humanness has really caught me. I think I identify as a woman first and human second. I guess I can't imagine being devoid of my gender. My reproductive function is a filter for my self image. I don't find that to be a problem. I love my femaleness and the fact that I carried my child and labored to bring her here and fed her.

You said in another post that "Feminism is about creating a world where those sexed female at birth are allowed to grow up as fully human." I am trying to understand this. Do you mean that feminism's goal is to eradicate gender? Can one grow up to be fully human and a woman as well?

Your reproductive function is a function of your sex, not your gender.

Feminism makes a distinction between sex and gender.
Sex: anatomy and physiology
Gender: social role
Feminism seeks to detach social role expectations from anatomy.
Social role expectations based on anatomy uphold male supremacy.

Social constructs like gender are malleable. Feminism is concerned with dismantling gender as a social construction used to uphold sex-based apartheid.
What gender may look like after removing the sex-based caste system currently attached is irrelevant to feminism..

The only concern of feminism is making sure kids like Pop have all the same human rights and privileges accorded them regardless of their reproductive anatomy.

Do I know of any culture where girls grow up with all the same human privileges and rights as boys? I can’t say that I do. Do you?

[julieisafemme]

Your reproductive function is a function of your sex, not your gender.

Feminism makes a distinction between sex and gender.
Sex: anatomy and physiology
Gender: social role
Feminism seeks to detach social role expectations from anatomy.
Social role expectations based on anatomy uphold male supremacy.

Social constructs like gender are malleable. Feminism is concerned with dismantling gender as a social construction used to uphold sex-based apartheid.
What gender may look like after removing the sex-based caste system currently attached is irrelevant to feminism..

The only concern of feminism is making sure kids like Pop have all the same human rights and privileges accorded them regardless of their reproductive anatomy.

Do I know of any culture where girls grow up with all the same human privileges and rights as boys? I can’t say that I do. Do you?


Yes I am aware of the difference between sex and gender.

I don't agree that gender is an entirely social construct though. I would say that my reproductive function informs my gender. For myself the two are intertwined in such a way as to be indistinguishable from one another. I am well aware that this is not the case for everyone. My gender is not fluid. Again I am well aware that this is not the case for eveyone.

Thank you for breaking it down that way. It is helpful to me.

[Greyson]

Gender, Privilege, Misogyny, Culture, Custom? This article gives me a great deal to think about, again.
______________________________________________


New York Times
September 20, 2010
Afghan Boys Are Prized, So Girls Live the Part

By JENNY NORDBERG

KABUL, Afghanistan — Six-year-old Mehran Rafaat is like many girls her age. She likes to be the center of attention. She is often frustrated when things do not go her way. Like her three older sisters, she is eager to discover the world outside the family’s apartment in their middle-class neighborhood of Kabul.

But when their mother, Azita Rafaat, a member of Parliament, dresses the children for school in the morning, there is one important difference. Mehran’s sisters put on black dresses and head scarves, tied tightly over their ponytails. For Mehran, it’s green pants, a white shirt and a necktie, then a pat from her mother over her spiky, short black hair. After that, her daughter is out the door — as an Afghan boy.

There are no statistics about how many Afghan girls masquerade as boys. But when asked, Afghans of several generations can often tell a story of a female relative, friend, neighbor or co-worker who grew up disguised as a boy. To those who know, these children are often referred to as neither “daughter” nor “son” in conversation, but as “bacha posh,” which literally means “dressed up as a boy” in Dari.

Through dozens of interviews conducted over several months, where many people wanted to remain anonymous or to use only first names for fear of exposing their families, it was possible to trace a practice that has remained mostly obscured to outsiders. Yet it cuts across class, education, ethnicity and geography, and has endured even through Afghanistan’s many wars and governments.

Afghan families have many reasons for pretending their girls are boys, including economic need, social pressure to have sons, and in some cases, a superstition that doing so can lead to the birth of a real boy. Lacking a son, the parents decide to make one up, usually by cutting the hair of a daughter and dressing her in typical Afghan men’s clothing. There are no specific legal or religious proscriptions against the practice. In most cases, a return to womanhood takes place when the child enters puberty. The parents almost always make that decision.

In a land where sons are more highly valued, since in the tribal culture usually only they can inherit the father’s wealth and pass down a name, families without boys are the objects of pity and contempt. Even a made-up son increases the family’s standing, at least for a few years. A bacha posh can also more easily receive an education, work outside the home, even escort her sisters in public, allowing freedoms that are unheard of for girls in a society that strictly segregates men and women.

But for some, the change can be disorienting as well as liberating, stranding the women in a limbo between the sexes. Shukria Siddiqui, raised as a boy but then abruptly plunged into an arranged marriage, struggled to adapt, tripping over the confining burqa and straining to talk to other women.

The practice may stretch back centuries. Nancy Dupree, an 83-year-old American who has spent most of her life as a historian working in Afghanistan, said she had not heard of the phenomenon, but recalled a photograph from the early 1900s belonging to the private collection of a member of the Afghan royal family.

It featured women dressed in men’s clothing standing guard at King Habibullah’s harem. The reason: the harem’s women could not be protected by men, who might pose a threat to the women, but they could not be watched over by women either.

“Segregation calls for creativity,” Mrs. Dupree said. “These people have the most amazing coping ability.”

It is a commonly held belief among less educated Afghans that the mother can determine the sex of her unborn child, so she is blamed if she gives birth to a daughter. Several Afghan doctors and health care workers from around the country said that they had witnessed the despair of women when they gave birth to daughters, and that the pressure to produce a son fueled the practice.

Pressure to Have a Boy

From that fateful day she first became a mother — Feb. 7, 1999 — Mrs. Rafaat knew she had failed, she said, but she was too exhausted to speak, shivering on the cold floor of the family’s small house in Badghis Province.

She had just given birth — twice — to Mehran’s older sisters, Benafsha and Beheshta. The first twin had been born after almost 72 hours of labor, one month prematurely. The girl weighed only 2.6 pounds and was not breathing at first. Her sister arrived 10 minutes later. She, too, was unconscious.

When her mother-in-law began to cry, Mrs. Rafaat knew it was not from fear whether her infant granddaughters would survive. The old woman was disappointed. “Why,” she cried, according to Mrs. Rafaat, “are we getting more girls in the family?”

Mrs. Rafaat had grown up in Kabul, where she was a top student, speaking six languages and nurturing high-flying dreams of becoming a doctor. But once her father forced her to become the second wife of her first cousin, she had to submit to being an illiterate farmer’s wife, in a rural house without running water and electricity, where the widowed mother-in-law ruled, and where she was expected to help care for the cows, sheep and chickens. She did not do well.

Conflicts with her mother-in-law began immediately, as the new Mrs. Rafaat insisted on better hygiene and more contact with the men in the house. She also asked her mother-in-law to stop beating her husband’s first wife with her walking stick. When Mrs. Rafaat finally snapped the stick in protest, the older woman demanded that her son, Ezatullah, control his new wife.

Soon, she was pregnant. The family treated her slightly better as she grew bigger. “They were hoping for a son this time,” she explained. Azita Rafaat delivered two daughters, double the disappointment.

Mrs. Rafaat faced constant pressure to try again, and she did, through two more pregnancies, when she had two more daughters — Mehrangis, now 9, and finally Mehran, the 6-year-old.

Asked if she ever considered leaving her husband, she reacted with complete surprise.

“I thought of dying,” she said. “But I never thought of divorce. If I had separated from my husband, I would have lost my children, and they would have had no rights. I am not one to quit.”

Today, she is in a position of power, at least on paper. She is one of 68 women in Afghanistan’s 249-member Parliament, representing Badghis Province. Her husband is unemployed and spends most of his time at home. “He is my house husband,” she joked.

By persuading him to move away from her mother-in-law and by offering to contribute to the family income, she laid the groundwork for her political life. Three years into their marriage, after the fall of the Taliban in 2002, she began volunteering as a health worker for various nongovernmental organizations. Today she makes $2,000 a month as a member of Parliament.

As a politician, she works to improve women’s rights and the rule of law. She ran for re-election on Sept. 18, and, based on a preliminary vote count, is optimistic about securing another term. But she could run only with her husband’s explicit permission, and the second time around, he was not easily persuaded.

He wanted to try again for a son. It would be difficult to combine pregnancy and another child with her work, she said — and she knew she might have another girl in any case.

But the pressure to have a son extended beyond her husband. It was the only subject her constituents could talk about when they came to the house, she said.

“When you don’t have a son in Afghanistan,” she explained, “it’s like a big missing in your life. Like you lost the most important point of your life. Everybody feels sad for you.”

As a politician, she was also expected to be a good wife and a mother; instead she looked like a failed woman to her constituents. The gossip spread back to her province, and her husband was also questioned and embarrassed, she said.

In an effort to preserve her job and placate her husband, as well as fending off the threat of his getting a third wife, she proposed to her husband that they make their youngest daughter look like a son.

“People came into our home feeling pity for us that we don’t have a son,” she recalled reasoning. “And the girls — we can’t send them outside. And if we changed Mehran to a boy we would get more space and freedom in society for her. And we can send her outside for shopping and to help the father.”

No Hesitation

Together, they spoke to their youngest daughter, she said. They made it an alluring proposition: “Do you want to look like a boy and dress like a boy, and do more fun things like boys do, like bicycling, soccer and cricket? And would you like to be like your father?” Mehran did not hesitate to say yes.

That afternoon, her father took her to the barbershop, where her hair was cut short. They continued to the bazaar, where she got new clothing. Her first outfit was “something like a cowboy dress,” Mrs. Rafaat said, meaning a pair of blue jeans and a red denim shirt with “superstar” printed on the back.

She even got a new name — originally called Manoush, her name was tweaked to the more boyish-sounding Mehran.

Mehran’s return to school — in a pair of pants and without her pigtails — went by without much reaction by her fellow students. She still napped in the afternoons with the girls, and changed into her sleepwear in a separate room from the boys. Some of her classmates still called her Manoush, while others called her Mehran. But she would always introduce herself as a boy to newcomers.

Khatera Momand, the headmistress, with less than a year in her job, said she had always presumed Mehran was a boy, until she helped change her into sleeping clothes one afternoon. “It was quite a surprise for me,” she said.

But once Mrs. Rafaat called the school and explained that the family had only daughters, Miss Momand understood perfectly. She used to have a girlfriend at the teacher’s academy who dressed as a boy.

Today, the family’s relatives and colleagues all know Mehran’s real gender, but the appearance of a son before guests and acquaintances is just enough to keep the family functioning, Mrs. Rafaat said. At least for now.

Mr. Rafaat said he felt closer to Mehran than to his other children, and thought of her as a son. “I am very happy,” he said. “When people now ask me, I say yes and they see that I have a son. So people are quiet, and I am quiet.”


(Part 2 in the following post.)

[Greyson]

Economic Necessity

Mehran’s case is not altogether rare.

Ten-year old Miina goes to school for two hours each morning, in a dress and a head scarf, but returns about 9 a.m. to her home in one of Kabul’s poorest neighborhoods to change into boys’ clothing. She then goes to work as Abdul Mateen, a shop assistant in a small grocery store nearby.

Every day, she brings home the equivalent of about $1.30 to help support her Pashtun family of eight sisters, as well as their 40-year-old mother, Nasima.

Miina’s father, an unemployed mason, is often away. When he does get temporary work, Nasima said, he spends most of his pay on drugs.

Miina’s change is a practical necessity, her mother said, a way for the entire family to survive. The idea came from the shopkeeper, a friend of the family, Nasima said: “He advised us to do it, and said she can bring bread for your home.”

She could never work in the store as a girl, just as her mother could not. Neither her husband nor the neighbors would look kindly on it. “It would be impossible,” Nasima said. “It’s our tradition that girls don’t work like this.”

Miina is very shy, but she admitted to a yearning to look like a girl. She still likes to borrow her sister’s clothing when she is home. She is also nervous that she will be found out if one of her classmates recognizes her at the store. “Every day she complains,” said her mother. “ ‘I’m not comfortable around the boys in the store,’ she says. ‘I am a girl.’ ”

Her mother has tried to comfort her by explaining that it will be only for a few years. After all, there are others to take her place. “After Miina gets too old, the second younger sister will be a boy,” her mother said, “and then the third.”

Refusing to Go Back

For most such girls, boyhood has an inevitable end. After being raised as a boy, with whatever privileges or burdens it may entail, they switch back once they become teenagers. When their bodies begin to change and they approach marrying age, parents consider it too risky for them to be around boys anymore.

When Zahra, 15, opens the door to the family’s second-floor apartment in an upscale neighborhood of Kabul, she is dressed in a black suit with boxy shoulders and wide-legged pants. Her face has soft features, but she does not smile, or look down, as most Afghan girls do.

She said she had been dressing and acting like a boy for as long as she could remember. If it were up to her, she would never go back. “Nothing in me feels like a girl,” she said with a shrug.

Her mother, Laila, said she had tried to suggest a change toward a more feminine look several times, but Zahra has refused. “For always, I want to be a boy and a boy and a boy,” she said with emphasis.

Zahra attends a girls’ school in the mornings, wearing her suit and a head scarf. As soon as she is out on the steps after class, she tucks her scarf into her backpack, and continues her day as a young man. She plays football and cricket, and rides a bike. She used to practice tae kwon do, in a group of boys where only the teacher knew she was not one of them.

Most of the neighbors know of her change, but otherwise, she is taken for a young man wherever she goes, her mother said. Her father, a pilot in the Afghan military, was supportive. “It’s a privilege for me, that she is in boys’ clothing,” he said. “It’s a help for me, with the shopping. And she can go in and out of the house without a problem.”

Both parents insisted it was Zahra’s own choice to look like a boy. “I liked it, since we didn’t have a boy,” her mother said, but added, “Now, we don’t really know.”

Zahra, who plans on becoming a journalist, and possibly a politician after that, offered her own reasons for not wanting to be an Afghan woman. They are looked down upon and harassed, she said.

“People use bad words for girls,” she said. “They scream at them on the streets. When I see that, I don’t want to be a girl. When I am a boy, they don’t speak to me like that.”

Zahra said she had never run into any trouble when posing as a young man, although she was occasionally challenged about her gender. “I’ve been in fights with boys,” she said. “If they tell me two bad words, I will tell them three. If they slap me once, I will slap them twice.”

Time to ‘Change Back’

For Shukria Siddiqui, the masquerade went too far, for too long.

Today, she is 36, a married mother of three, and works as an anesthesiology nurse at a Kabul hospital. Short and heavily built, wearing medical scrubs, she took a break from attending to a patient who had just had surgery on a broken leg.

She remembered the day her aunt brought her a floor-length skirt and told her the time had come to “change back.” The reason soon became clear: she was getting married. Her parents had picked out a husband whom she had never met.

At that time, Shukur, as she called herself, was a 20-year old man, to herself and most people around her. She walked around with a knife in her back pocket. She wore jeans and a leather jacket.

She was speechless — she had never thought of getting married.

Mrs. Siddiqui had grown up as a boy companion to her older brother, in a family of seven girls and one boy. “I wanted to be like him and to be his friend,” she said. “I wanted to look like him. We slept in the same bed. We prayed together. We had the same habits.”

Her parents did not object, since their other children were girls, and it seemed like a good idea for the oldest son to have a brother. But Mrs. Siddiqui remained in her male disguise well beyond puberty, which came late.

She said she was already 16 when her body began to change. “But I really had nothing then either,” she said, with a gesture toward her flat chest.

Like many other Afghan girls, she was surprised the first time she menstruated, and worried she might be ill. Her mother offered no explanation, since such topics were deemed inappropriate to discuss. Mrs. Siddiqui said she never had romantic fantasies about boys — or of girls, either.

Her appearance as a man approaching adulthood was not questioned, she said. But it frequently got others into trouble, like the time she escorted a girlfriend home who had fallen ill. Later, she learned that the friend had been beaten by her parents after word spread through the neighborhood that their daughter was seen holding hands with a boy.

‘My Best Time’

Having grown up in Kabul in a middle-class family, her parents allowed her to be educated through college, where she attended nursing school. She took on her future and professional life with certainty and confidence, presuming she would never be constricted by any of the rules that applied to women in Afghanistan.

Her family, however, had made their decision: she was to marry the owner of a small construction company. She never considered going against them, or running away. “It was my family’s desire, and we obey our families,” she said. “It’s our culture.”

A forced marriage is difficult for anyone, but Mrs. Siddiqui was particularly ill equipped. She had never cooked a meal in her life, and she kept tripping over the burqa she was soon required to wear.

She had no idea how to act in the world of women. “I had to learn how to sit with women, how to talk, how to behave,” she said. For years, she was unable to socialize with other women and uncomfortable even greeting them.

“When you change back, it’s like you are born again, and you have to learn everything from the beginning,” she explained. “You get a whole new life. Again.”

Mrs. Siddiqui said she was lucky her husband turned out to be a good one. She had asked his permission to be interviewed and he agreed. He was understanding of her past, she said. He tolerated her cooking. Sometimes, he even encouraged her to wear trousers at home, she said. He knows it cheers her up.

In a brief period of marital trouble, he once attempted to beat her, but after she hit him back, it never happened again. She wants to look like a woman now, she said, and for her children to have a mother.

Still, not a day goes by when she does not think back to “my best time,” as she called it. Asked if she wished she had been born a man, she silently nods.

But she also wishes her upbringing had been different. “For me, it would have been better to grow up as a girl,” she said, “since I had to become a woman in the end.”

Like Mother, Like a Son

It is a typically busy day in the Rafaat household. Azita Rafaat is in the bathroom, struggling to put her head scarf in place, preparing for a photographer who has arrived at the house to take her new campaign photos.

The children move restlessly between Tom and Jerry cartoons on the television and a computer game on their mother’s laptop. Benafsha, 11, and Mehrangis, 9, wear identical pink tights and a ruffled skirt. They go first on the computer. Mehran, the 6-year-old, waits her turn, pointing and shooting a toy gun at each of the guests.

She wears a bandage over her right earlobe, where she tried to pierce herself with one of her mother’s earrings a day earlier, wanting to look like her favorite Bollywood action hero: Salman Khan, a man who wears one gold earring.

Then Mehran decided she had waited long enough to play on the computer, stomping her feet and waving her arms, and finally slapping Benafsha in the face.

“He is very naughty,” Mrs. Rafaat said in English with a sigh, of Mehran, mixing up the gender-specific pronoun, which does not exist in Dari. “My daughter adopted all the boys’ traits very soon. You’ve seen her — the attitude, the talking — she has nothing of a girl in her.”

The Rafaats have not yet made a decision when Mehran will be switched back to a girl, but Mrs. Rafaat said she hoped it need not happen for another five or six years.

“I will need to slowly, slowly start to tell her about what she is and that she needs to be careful as she grows up,” she said. “I think about this every day — what’s happening to Mehran.”

Challenged about how it might affect her daughter, she abruptly revealed something from her own past: “Should I share something for you, honestly? For some years I also been a boy.”

As the first child of her family, Mrs. Rafaat assisted her father in his small food shop, beginning when she was 10, for four years. She was tall and athletic and saw only potential when her parents presented the idea — she would be able to move around more freely.

She went to a girls’ school in the mornings, but worked at the store on afternoons and evenings, running errands in pants and a baseball hat, she said.

Returning to wearing dresses and being confined was not so much difficult as irritating, and a little disappointing, she said. But over all, she is certain that the experience contributed to the resolve that brought her to Parliament.

“I think it made me more energetic,” she said. “It made me more strong.” She also believed her time as a boy made it easier for her to relate to and communicate with men.

Mrs. Rafaat said she hoped the effects on Mehran’s psyche and personality would be an advantage, rather than a limitation.

She noted that speaking out may draw criticism from others, but argued that it was important to reveal a practice most women in her country wished did not have to exist. “This is the reality of Afghanistan,” she said.

As a woman and as a politician, she said it worried her that despite great efforts and investments from the outside world to help Afghan women, she has seen very little change, and an unwillingness to focus on what matters.

“They think it’s all about the burqa,” she said. “I’m ready to wear two burqas if my government can provide security and a rule of law. That’s O.K. with me. If that’s the only freedom I have to give up, I’m ready.”

The author of this article can be contacted at bachaposh [at] gmail [dot] com.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/world/asia/21gender.html?ref=general&src=me&pagewanted=all

[Nat]

Greyson - thank go so much for posting about this especially here in this thread. Usually when I think of kids forced into gender roles, I think of people trying to force kids into gender roles that "match" assigned sex - but this is a great - and terrible - example of the opposite phenomenon.

Years ago, I saw this movie about a scenario like this.

GRkc6BoDdKM

I think the entire movie is on YouTube and also worth watching. It is not a happy movie but it is a movie about a young afghani girl who dresses as a boy to go to school. It came out not too long after 911.

[Soon]

After receiving some backlash (plus a response from Angelina Jolie herself) for gender policing celebrity child Shiloh Jolie-Pitts, it looks like Life & Style Magazine wanted to follow up for more attention by implying that Angelina Jolie is the one gender policing her child — to wear boy’s clothes.

And what is the proof behind Shiloh being manipulated? Her outfits are too well put together so she obviously doesn’t dress herself (you know, like most 4-year olds do). After all, Jolie must be the only person in the world who dresses her child herself — and certainly the only one to possibly dress her kid in clothes she may not like (although Jolie’s says the opposite: that she’s simply allowing Shiloh’s own self-expression).

The fact of the matter is no one would give a shit if Jolie was “making” her kid wear tutus and sundresses — since that’s “normal” and all. Pants on a little girl? For shame! Short hair? What little girl would want that! Tell Life & Style to get the fuck over it and quit gender policing a 4-year old before she’s permanently harmed by their manipulative bullshit.


http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk34/feministing/DSC_0610.jpg

[Cyclopea]

SATURDAY, OCT 2, 2010 17:01 ET
I will put my little boy in pink pants
I want my son to be comfortable with his feminine side. Now, if only I could get comfortable with strangers staring
BY NATHAN HEGEDUS

The pants mock me. I usually keep this pair hidden -- underneath my 18-month-old son's jeans and sweats, under the hand-me-down khakis with the embroidered hearts on the butt. But today the pants, those pink pants with the flowers, lie exposed in an empty dresser drawer. The only clean pants. For my boy.

When this happens -- and it happens more often than I like -- I think about a Gloria Steinem quote a friend posted on Facebook. It read: "We've begun to raise daughters more like sons ... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters."

Pink is the most loaded color, at least in a child's world. Once a fierce boy color, pink has for decades now been insidiously marketed and pushed as the epitome of a kind of frilly, marginalizing girlhood. Small-scale boycotts have popped up in England and elsewhere as people finally push back against what the former head of UK's National Consumer Council calls this "gender apartheid." And according to Slate, gender neutral clothes are making a high-end comeback, a possible way out of the pink prison.

And now there is some buzz about a book by Cordelia Fine called "Delusions of Gender," a volley in the nature-versus-nurture wars firmly on the nurture side. Fine argues that men are not from Mars and women are not from Venus. In fact, she says, we are way more alike than different. All those supposedly entrenched gender differences, the ones we read about in popular literature and scientific journals alike? Just a product of oppressive "neurosexism," she says.

This sounds like a great reason to get girls away from pink and all the socio-corporate limitations it imposes. But what about boys? What about the flip side of that gender apartheid, that boys are shunted into blue and trucks and trains? We do not perceive them as the victims -- likely because masculine traits are traditionally perceived as more active and positives -- but they are limited nonetheless.

Why can't boys wear pink?

For better or for worse, pink has come to stand for the feminine in the baby and toddler world. And let's not throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak. The stereotypes run both ways -- feminine may be perceived as weak and passive, but it is also seen as gentle and sensitive. And if men are going to make it in post-industrial society -- and there is much fear that they will not -- they need these interpersonal and nurturing skills, both at work and at home.

Could we raise gentle and sensitive boys without the feminine symbols, without pink? Probably. But what's wrong with a little pink, with a flower here and a butterfly there? So, Ms. Steinem, I'm on board. I get it. I can't just toughen up my girl. I also need to make my boy confident with his softer sides. I need to embrace a metaphorical pink.

So during my recent nine months of paternity leave (thanks, Sweden, for helping me reverse gender stereotypes myself), I fostered my son's love of dolls, cuddling and kissing them when he reached them up to me with expectations in his eyes. And I regularly put him in the shiny pink dress at the local "open preschool" when he asked for it. And I still cuddle and kiss him until he can't take it -- no stoic, unreachable model of masculinity here.

The dude looks good in pink, too, not the least bit effeminate. (Wait, that is bad, right? I should say that he looks effeminate, and I love it. I have a ways to go on this one, it seems). For even if he is a pretty boy, he is not a "pretty boy," if you know what I mean (D'oh! There I go again, getting all macho about my sweet son.)

He wears plenty of pink, mostly in the details -- flowers on slippers, details on pants, collars on shirts -- all hand-me-downs from big sister. It would be financial insanity to just give all those clothes away. For while the Swedish state takes good care of families with small children, my paternity leave pay wasn't that good.

Back at the dresser drawer, however, before the pink pants, I falter. There must be other pants in the dirty laundry that would work. What is a little dried oatmeal on the leg?

At the park or at preschool when we pick up his older sister, if he has on pink, I see the looks, the glances. In the sandbox the smallest butterfly on his pants creates confusion.

You can see the gears working in the other parent's head. Is this a boy or girl? Should I ask? Maybe I shouldn't.

And this is in Sweden -- a country far more equal and less focused on gender than the United States. This is a place where men take more than 20 percent of the most generous parental leave in the world. This is a place where two 13-year-old boys took on Toys "R" Us for its sexist toy catalogs. There is no pink-blue tyranny here (babies are dressed in shockingly neutral colors, plus lots of stripes, which raises other fashion issues), and people usually know to ask, "What is your child's name?" instead of, "What is your son's name?"

But the code of pink thrives here anyway, and I am slowly buckling under the pressure. My son's pink shirts get worn as pajamas at home or only on cold days when I know his black San Francisco sweatshirt will never come off.

Standing at the dresser, I ponder that pink reflects my own masculinity -- all silly and sensitive at home but strong and silent in public.

And then I remember the bag of extra clothes in the extra diaper bag -- the one that I no longer use. I rush over. The pants inside are too short and a little frilly.

But they are orange.

----------------------------------

Nathan Hegedus writes the Big News column for The Faster Times and also blogs at Dispatches from Daddyland. He recently returned to work in Stockholm, Sweden after nine months of paid paternity leave.

http://www.family-vacation-getaways-at-los-angeles-theme-parks.com/images/NaartjiePinkPants.gif

[Soon]

Meet "Princess Boy" & His Awesome Family (http://jezebel.com/5664165/meet-princess-boy--his-awesome-family)

[katsarecool]

I let my children be who they wanted to be; play with dolls or not, wear pink or not, play with trains and trucks or not, cry or not, etc. Chores were assigned regardless of gender. It was not an easy task by any means it required constant monitoring of self and ex-husband.

[Nat]

Mariah: I won't force pink on baby (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5iWapdnQL1pPBYqnpsufKNxZb9k9w?docId=N01248412 88725335238A)

Mariah Carey doesn't know the sex of her unborn baby, but insists she won't force pink on her child if it's a girl.

The 41-year-old diva - who confirmed last week she is expecting her first child - was a guest on the Ellen DeGeneres Show and was teased by host Ellen that she was going to love dressing up her baby if she had a daughter.

Mariah said: "I'm not going to impose pink on a girl. Do you think I'm really going to go that hard with it? That's how you get the exact opposite."

Ellen joked to the singer: "When that baby comes out you're going to have high heels on it like immediately. Little, tiny high heel shoes on that baby."

When the presenter asked if she could guess the baby's sex, Mariah said: "I would prefer not. Because imagine if you're a baby inside someone's body. Do you really want someone imposing their sex ideas on you? Not really? I'm just saying. Would you want them to be like it's definitely a girl... would you?

[Tcountry]

I know a 7yr old who has tools and dolls...
who loves anything to do with kittens, but will get up on the roof and help tear off shingles...
I can say my household will be that way again, too....as soon as they can talk it is purely up to them...clothes, toys, activities, etc. ;)

[Nat]

I've had several facebook friends link to this blog post (http://nerdyapplebottom.com/2010/11/02/my-son-is-gay/) recently - and I think it fits this thread pretty perfectly. I found it especially interesting how the other moms were the main source of bs - not the other kids.

my son is gay

http://nerdyapplebottom.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/dsc_0007-e1288401371463.jpg?w=290&h=500

Or he’s not. I don’t care. He is still my son. And he is 5. And I am his mother. And if you have a problem with anything mentioned above, I don’t want to know you.

I have gone back and forth on whether I wanted to post something more in-depth about my sweet boy and his choice of Halloween costume. Or more specifically, the reactions to it. I figure if I’m still irked by it a few days later, I may as well go ahead and post my thoughts.

Here are the facts that lead up to my rant:

1.My son is 5 and goes to a church preschool.
2.He has loved Scooby Doo since developing the ability and attention span to sit still long enough to watch it.
3.Halloween is a holiday and its main focus is wearing a costume.
4.My son’s school had the kids dress up, do a little parade, and then change out of costumes for the rest of the party.
5.Boo’s best friend is a little girl
6.Boo has an older sister
7.Boo spends most of his time with me.
8.I am a woman.
9.I am Boo’s mother, not you.
So a few weeks before Halloween, Boo decides he wants to be Daphne from Scooby Doo, along with his best friend E. He had dressed as Scooby a couple of years ago. I was hesitant to make the purchase, not because it was a cross gendered situation, but because 5 year olds have a tendency to change their minds. After requesting a couple of more times, I said sure and placed the order. He flipped out when it arrived. It was perfect.

Then as we got closer to the actual day, he stared to hem and haw about it. After some discussion it comes out that he is afraid people will laugh at him. I pointed out that some people will because it is a cute and clever costume. He insists their laughter would be of the ‘making fun’ kind. I blow it off. Seriously, who would make fun of a child in costume?

And then the big day arrives. We get dressed up. We drop Squirt at his preschool and head over to his. Boo doesn’t want to get out of the car. He’s afraid of what people will say and do to him. I convince him to go inside. He halts at the door. He’s visibly nervous. I chalk it up to him being a bit of a worrier in general. Seriously, WHO WOULD MAKE FUN OF A CHILD IN A COSTUME ON HALLOWEEN? So he walks in. And there were several friends of mine that knew what he was wearing that smiled and waved and gave him high-fives. We walk down the hall to where his classroom is.

And that’s where things went wrong. Two mothers went wide-eyed and made faces as if they smelled decomp. And I realize that my son is seeing the same thing I am. So I say, “Doesn’t he look great?” And Mom A says in disgust, “Did he ask to be that?!” I say that he sure did as Halloween is the time of year that you can be whatever it is that you want to be. They continue with their nosy, probing questions as to how that was an option and didn’t I try to talk him out of it. Mom B mostly just stood there in shock and dismay.

And then Mom C approaches. She had been in the main room, saw us walk in, and followed us down the hall to let me know her thoughts. And they were that I should never have ‘allowed’ this and thank God it wasn’t next year when he was in Kindergarten since I would have had to put my foot down and ‘forbidden’ it. To which I calmly replied that I would do no such thing and couldn’t imagine what she was talking about. She continued on and on about how mean children could be and how he would be ridiculed.

My response to that: The only people that seem to have a problem with it is their mothers.

Another mom pointed out that high schools often have Spirit Days where girls dress like boys and vice versa. I mentioned Powderpuff Games where football players dress like cheerleaders and vice versa. Or every frat boy ever in college (Mom A said that her husband was a frat boy and NEVER dressed like a woman.)

But here’s the point, it is none of your damn business.

If you think that me allowing my son to be a female character for Halloween is somehow going to ‘make’ him gay then you are an idiot. Firstly, what a ridiculous concept. Secondly, if my son is gay, OK. I will love him no less. Thirdly, I am not worried that your son will grow up to be an actual ninja so back off.

If my daughter had dressed as Batman, no one would have thought twice about it. No one.

But it also was heartbreaking to me that my sweet, kind-hearted five year old was right to be worried. He knew that there were people like A, B, and C. And he, at 5, was concerned about how they would perceive him and what would happen to him.

Just as it was heartbreaking to those parents that have lost their children recently due to bullying. IT IS NOT OK TO BULLY. Even if you wrap it up in a bow and call it ‘concern.’ Those women were trying to bully me. And my son. MY son.

It is obvious that I neither abuse nor neglect my children. They are not perfect, but they are learning how to navigate this big, and sometimes cruel, world. I hate that my son had to learn this lesson while standing in front of allegedly Christian women. I hate that those women thought those thoughts, and worse felt comfortable saying them out loud. I hate that ‘pink’ is still called a girl color and that my baby has to be so brave if he wants to be Daphne for Halloween.

And all I hope for my kids, and yours, and those of Moms ABC, are that they are happy. If a set of purple sparkly tights and a velvety dress is what makes my baby happy one night, then so be it. If he wants to carry a purse, or marry a man, or paint fingernails with his best girlfriend, then ok. My job as his mother is not to stifle that man that he will be, but to help him along his way. Mine is not to dictate what is ‘normal’ and what is not, but to help him become a good person.

I hope I am doing that.

And my little man worked that costume like no other. He rocked that wig, and I wouldn’t want it any other way.

[Gemme]

I've had several facebook friends link to this blog post (http://nerdyapplebottom.com/2010/11/02/my-son-is-gay/) recently - and I think it fits this thread pretty perfectly. I found it especially interesting how the other moms were the main source of bs - not the other kids.

Shit flows downstream.

[Jess]

I've had several facebook friends link to this blog post (http://nerdyapplebottom.com/2010/11/02/my-son-is-gay/) recently - and I think it fits this thread pretty perfectly. I found it especially interesting how the other moms were the main source of bs - not the other kids.


The Today show picked up on this story and actually handled it quite well. Here is their interview with this mom and the author of My Princess Boy, the mother of a vibrant young boy who enjoys all things "pink and pretty"

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40069385/ns/today-parenting/

and here is the link to the author's page for her book

http://myprincessboy.com/


It was actually refreshing to hear them discuss even briefly the gender issues instead of the tired old " it will make your kid gay" rhetoric.

[Greyson]

Prudence is an "Advice Columnist" of the same genre as "Dear Abby." I thought her advice was informative and a couple of references in her reply supplied two very pertinent links. I highlighted them in blue at the bottom of the post.


All I Want for Christmas

Prudie's advice on a boy who begged Santa for a skirt

By Emily Yoffe

Dear Prudence:
I am the father of a bright, artistic, and thoughtful 5-year-old boy. He enjoys playing dress-up and, from time to time, putting on his mother's shoes or jewelry and declaring that he is a girl. Recently, when my wife and I asked him what he wanted for Christmas, he told us he wanted a skirt so that he could be a girl. We weren't sure whether he was serious, but when he saw Santa at the mall, he very earnestly declared that he wanted a skirt. Since that time, he has written several letters to Santa, and in each he has asked for a skirt. (As an aside, we gladly let him dress up as the Wicked Witch of the West for Halloween, which provoked some stares and insensitive comments, to which he was thankfully oblivious.) While we want him to be his own person and be comfortable in his own shoes (ruby or otherwise), my wife and I aren't sure whether to honor this request, as he undoubtedly will want to wear the skirt outside of the home eventually, which leads to a series of difficult conversations that we aren't prepared to have with a kindergartener. Yet we know he will be heartbroken if Santa does not bring him a skirt of his own.

—Conflicted at Christmas

Dear Conflicted,
How lucky that your son has parents such as you, who will adore him, ruby slippers and all. It's too early to know for sure where his desire to dress up will lead. But studies show that little boys with a persistent interest in wearing girls' clothes, and who have other nonconforming gender behaviors, have a strong likelihood of eventually identifying themselves as gay. If that is the case for your son, when the time comes for him to come out, happily for your relationship with him, it will come as no surprise. My colleague Hanna Rosin's fascinating piece about these children makes the important point that the vast majority are not transsexual. To the concrete-thinking mind of a 5-year-old boy who likes typically girly things, saying he's a girl is a way to express this interest. I spoke with Catherine Tuerk, co-founder of the Gender and Sexuality Development Program at the Children's National Medical Center. She said it's very important that you have a talk with your son because you've got reassuring news to tell him: that although he may suspect he's the only boy who feels the way he does, actually there are a lot of boys like him, and as he gets older, he will make friends with many of them. Explain to him that there are different kinds of boys—he's a boy who's interested in things girls also like, and that's terrific. You can tell him some boys act more like bumblebees, some like butterflies.

When he opens his present, he will see that Santa heard his plea and delivered a skirt. But Tuerk said you need to have another conversation, one that's going to be a little harder, about the skirt. You have to explain to him that not everybody understands how many different kinds of boys there are, and so if he wears his skirt to the playground, or to school, there are going to be people who say mean things or make fun of him. Tell him you want to figure out the places he can wear his skirt—at home, maybe grandma's, etc.—where he can enjoy it and feel comfortable. This conversation is not about conveying shame, but about giving your child good options, and not locking him into a limited identity ("The boy who dresses like a girl!") with his classmates. As Tuerk points out, often as these boys get a little older the intense desire to dress up wanes, and they find other avenues—art classes, theater—to express their interest in beauty and fabulousness. There are many conversations ahead for all of you, and at the CNMC Web site are materials on childhood gender issues, book suggestions for you and your son, and information about support groups. Talking about your bright, thoughtful, artistic son with other parents of similar children will benefit you and your darling butterfly.

—Prudie

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/11/a-boy-apos-s-life/7059/5#

http://www.childrensnational.org/DepartmentsandPrograms/default.aspx?Id=6178&Type=Program&Name=Gender%20and%20Sexuality%20Development%20Prog ram

http://www.slate.com/id/2277578?wpisrc=newsletter

[Medusa]

I had a really sweet encounter today at Wal-Mart.

Jack and I were in the condiment aisle and looked up and saw a mother and two children pass; one boy and one girl.

The little boy was wearing a full-length black and white (maybe chinchilla?) fur coat. It was dragging the ground and practically dwarfed him.

The family were walking down the center traffic aisle and lots of people were staring. Some folks high-fived the little boy. One man fist-pumped and said "He is Big Pimpin'!"

I hustled down the aisle to get a better look and the Mom kinda turned toward me and smiled this huge smile. I rounded the corner and little man was drawing some major attention with people smiling huge and being pretty jovial.

His Mom turned around and smiled at me again and I said, "He is adorable! Is that his coat or yours?"
Her response was pretty amazing, "Well, it's mine but he was cold when we got out of the car and he wanted to wear it. I let him wear whatever he wants."

That was when the little boy turned around and faced me. His entire mouth was covered in hot pink glittery lip gloss.

I said something like, "Hey little man! How old are you?"

He held up 4 fingers (although it might have been 5 because his little hand wasnt open all the way) and that was when his sister informed me that she was 3 and smiled to reveal a mouth full of silver-capped teeth.

I asked Mom if I could take a picture of him from the back to remember for a piece of art. She said, "Sure!" I couldnt believe it!

The way Mom looked down at him so lovingly told me all I needed to know about how she was raising him. This wasnt an ignorant woman, she seemed to just want her son to be happy.

My heart was lifted. <3

[Soon]

Gendered toy marketing, word cloud edition.

By VANESSA | Published: APRIL 22, 2011

Hot damn, I love word clouds. This (http://www.achilleseffect.com/2011/03/word-cloud-how-toy-ad-vocabulary-reinforces-gender-stereotypes/#) blogger create these based on two lists of products marketed as “girls” and “boys” toys, and the words used in television commercials advertising them.

http://feministing.com/files/2011/04/wordlegirlstoys.jpg


http://feministing.com/files/2011/04/wordleboystoys.jpg

[Nat]

That's really interesting. Thanks for posting that. :)

[Xavi]

Word clouds are awesome, and really useful. I'm very visual, and those bring home to me in a super direct way the things that disturb me the most about how toys are gendered.

Ana and I have thought about how we would raise children and struggled a lot with trying to figure out how to raise kids in a way that would most enable them to organically and unafraid-ly (is that a word? I don't think so.) express their own identity. So far, I think green and yellow are really good primary colors for baby rooms and what not.

I don't have the links on hand, but I've read about adults identifying all babies and children as boys unless they have some sort of really obvious female or feminine constructed traits or accessories, like pink hair bows and clothing, or very long hair.

I think what I struggle with the most about this, aside from what would happen when my kids go to school and are exposed to lots of gender policing from adults and other kids, is that sort of gender essentialist phase that lots of kids seem to go through when they're somewhere in between toddlers and in junior high. I don't know if that's really a part of how young brains process and learn about sex and gender, or more about the things they learn from other people.

By gender essentialist phase, I mean that phase where a lot of female children decide they're fairy princesses because they're a girl and male children decide they're rambo because they're a boy. Obviously this has a lot to do with marketing as well, as the word clouds show. Mostly this all makes me want to get a degree in psychology or something before raising kids.

[EnderD_503]

@Greyson's All I Want For Christmas Post:

I'm not sure. I think my feelings are mixed on the advice Prudence gave. On the one hand, I understand why she would suggest that the boy only wear his skirt at home/at grandparent's place and so on. On the other hand, I think if a boy wants to wear a skirt and still be a boy then I think other kids and adults as well should be exposed to that. Sure, explain to him that some people might not have nice things to say about his wearing a skirt, but if decided that he wanted to wear the skirt to school...maybe talk to his teachers about it? That way they at least know what's going on and can look out for him.

Reminds me of the film Ma vie en rose a little. But yes, I think it's important not to shame kids who might want to dress outside typical "gendered clothing" and I understand that Prudence was trying to avoid that and commend her for it. At the same time, I think limiting the time he could wear his skirt might still have that "shaming" effect...as though there is something wrong with it that he'd only be able to wear it hidden from the view of his classmates.

[ana]

I agree, it's super disturbing how kids' things are so very gendered.

I read that column the post above me refers to, and I was a bit conflicted. I get where the author was going with the whole "wear the skirt in safer spaces" advice, but it also seems kinda crappy. I mean, it's like saying to your kid, "Yay! You're awesome! Be whoever you are! Umm, well, unless you're here... or here ... How about we stick to grandma's house?" :eyebrow:

At the same time, the super protective femmeness comes out in me, and I'm determined to protect the beautiful, awesome, queerness of kids from the world so that they can be who they are and figure out where they fit without the jerks raining on their pride parade.

[Soon]

Family Describes Anti-Sissy Therapy (http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2011/06/06/ac.sissy.boy.experiment.cnn?iref=allsearch)

[Nat]

A Swedish Preschool Attempts to Eliminate Gender (http://www.bust.com/blog/2011/07/11/swedish-preschool-attempts-to-eliminate-gender.html)

[DapperButch]

A Swedish Preschool Attempts to Eliminate Gender (http://www.bust.com/blog/2011/07/11/swedish-preschool-attempts-to-eliminate-gender.html)

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3435

[blush]

Yanno, it seems like every time I hear about boys wanting skirts or to wear heel or boas, it leads into a much deeper discussion of their sexuality or gender.

Why. These questions aren't asked if a girl wants a dump truck or hates pink. Studies aren't done to probe if girls who like pants grow up to be lesbians. No one seemed to ask this child why he wanted a skirt. Maybe he thought they were more comfortable.

To me, it speaks to an undercurrent in our society that we lessen all things girly. A boy liking girly things is symptomatic of a deeper issue. A girl liking boy things is just cute.

Madonna said it best: "because you think being a girl is degrading"

[greeneyedgrrl]

Ads for a FL Martial Arts Academy:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/TGV7UfCDYJI/AAAAAAAA4-Q/c24K0MWMpe0/s400/RDCAkarate2.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__XCWUd8FFjQ/TGQqM0ODVlI/AAAAAAAAK7I/U_yhBm89OZ4/s200/RDCAkarate1.jpg

http://copyranter.blogspot.com/2010/08/stop-your-burgeoning-little-cross.html

can i just say i absolutely effin love those picks! :D who'd wanna stop that??

[Slater]

I think that Swedish pre-school is on the right track. I've been thinking lately that really there should be a single gender label/pronoun that is used exclusively and universally for very young children. And there might even reasonably be a transitional set of gender identities between this single young-child neutral gender and the full array of adult genders.

--Slater

[greeneyedgrrl]

I <3 that idea!

I think that Swedish pre-school is on the right track. I've been thinking lately that really there should be a single gender label/pronoun that is used exclusively and universally for very young children. And there might even reasonably be a transitional set of gender identities between this single young-child neutral gender and the full array of adult genders.

--Slater

[Soon]

Gender Diversity and Kids: Happiness Matters, not Nail Polish (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephanie-brill/gender-diversity-and-kids_b_898250.html)

"My son wants to wear nail polish."

"My daughter wants her hair cut very short."

These are real-life situations that parents of young children I know have faced. And while many parents would seek to tamp down such expression out of fear for their child's safety -- or even outrage at his or her defiance of how boys and girls "ought to be" -- I have a very different response. I argue that parents should encourage their children to express themselves as they want.

I am the head of Gender Spectrum, a San Francisco-based organization for families of boys and girls who don't conform to conventional gender stereotypes. I know that not every little girl wants to be a princess, nor does every boy want to be a cowboy or superhero. Yet for far too long, society's response to these children has been either silence or mockery. It is time for this to change.

While society has changed a great deal over the last few decades, the notion of rigid gender roles continues to thrive in ways that play no small part in our children's upbringing. As parents, we instruct gender, but so too do the media, schools, and religious institutions. Gender roles and expectations become intricately woven into the fabric of our beings without our even realizing it.

Through my work over the past two decades with parents, I have found that it can consequently be incredibly hard for parents to simply allow their children to express themselves. But this is only even an issue because many of the things children naturally want to do, and the ways children naturally want to express themselves have had a stamp of gender added to them. Hairstyles, toys, and clothing preferences have no innate gender, yet few of us hesitate to attach a gender to them.

I argue that our basic values as parents should not change simply because we are thinking about our sons rather than our daughters, or vice versa. The important question isn't whether this style of dress, toy, or nail polish is appropriate for a son or daughter; it's whether it's appropriate for a child.

These things are not expressions of gender -- they are natural expressions of self. If we simply love and support our children equally, without judging their expression based on their gender, we are then free to focus on instilling the values that are really important to us.

We tell our kids to be who they are and unashamed of their differences. Yet when it comes to gender expression, we still struggle. We think: Should I allow my child to cross this line? Where is the line, anyway? What will the neighbors, teachers, and grandparents think? Won't I be setting him up for teasing? Won't I be encouraging him to be gay?

We want our children to be appreciated and accepted, but we parents also want to be approved of and accepted. This creates a sad double standard.

It is normal to feel that social change takes away our sense of security. Each generation has these struggles with their children. But it is a natural part of social growth. It is time to let go. When a child spends his or her time regulating the mannerisms he or she adopts, or what he or she wears or plays, it detracts from the same energy that children can put towards learning and creative or athletic expression.

How do we allow our children to throw off sexist notions of self-expression, while still keeping them safe? My answer is clear: Colors are colors, toys are toys, clothes are clothes, and hair is hair. Each person is entitled to express his or individuality and personal preferences to the extent that it does not hurt anyone else. We do not disrespect others, we honor everyone's choice to express themselves, and we self-correct if we lapse into judgment ourselves. It is up to us, to each family, to instill these values for the future.

Equally important is that the same values are reinforced at school. At Gender Spectrum, we have worked with countless children in their classrooms, and can vouch that children are ready for these changes. Education merely requires age-appropriate discussion of matters such as how some girls prefer short hair and some boys want to play with dolls. There is no agenda other than understanding and acceptance. Kids of all ages are receptive to and ready for these conversations. From there, our guidelines are simple: If we honor and respect one another, we can all get along.

More and more parents are living these guidelines every day. At the end of July, Gender Spectrum will hold its annual Family Conference, which will bring hundreds of gender-nonconforming children and teenagers, their families, and allies together. For a few days, they will have the opportunity to see that they are not alone, to learn from each other, and to attend a wide range of programming on the different facets of the gender-nonconforming experience.

But of course, it all begins at home. Should you allow your son to wear nail polish out of the house? If he likes it, why not? Wearing nail polish will not make him gay; it will not make him transgender. It just may make him happy.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Gender Diversity and Kids: Happiness Matters, not Nail Polish (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephanie-brill/gender-diversity-and-kids_b_898250.html)



great article! much harder to practice though. recently, i was with my kid at an event for girls in a conservative area and they had face painting (they got to do their own) and she wanted to paint a mustache and beard, (she's done it before and i love that she feels comfortable doing it in any setting.. it was (for me), in this particular place, uncomfortable. i let her do it, it wasn't dangerous, just uncomfortable), but it was HARD (i was surprised at how hard it was for me). i had to really look at the feelings/fear that came up for me so that i wouldn't pass them onto her and i'm sure there was some transference because i didn't handle it very well at the event, i took her downtown (because she really wanted to be seen) where i felt safer so she could rock her new look. i'm a little embarrassed, k really embarrassed, that it took me a min to get my bearings (after i rushed her out of the event). :|

[Bad_boi]

I say let kids be kids. If I had children I would let them do what they felt comfortable doing. I may warn them if they do certain things that other children may tease them so they are aware of their choices. As long as it is age apropreate not harmful there is nothing wrong with them dressing how they choose and how they act.

[Nat]

bEMKCEeMQV8

Saw this today and thought it was cute to see a depiction of a dad playing princess with his daughter. One of my coworkers admitted to doing much the same a few years back - wearing a tiara with his daughter and having tea with her.

[dykeumentary]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/fa...anted=all&_r=0

This is a link to a NYTimes article this week about parents of gay children. I know they were trying to be helpful, but here's the part that continues to be problematic:

"Parents aren’t blind, and the clues are often there. Some research suggests that sexual orientation can show itself even at 3 years old. In our family, by the time our youngest son came out at 13, my wife and I had long progressed from inkling to conviction. A toddler who wore a feather boa around the house and pleaded for pink light-up sneakers with rhinestones is probably telling you something, even if he doesn’t yet know what it is."

I look forward to the day when colors and accessories "equate" neither gender nor sexuality.

[Dance-with-me]

I thought I'd posted here before but apparently not. I've been raising my 6yo granddaughter since she was 20m, and she is "gender variant" and every year further affirms that she will be a boy named Michael when she grows up.

While I completely agree with Dykeumentary about wishing that colors and accessories weren't gendered, I have also seen that for a lot of these kids, having those gendered markers is crucial to their gender expression. For some kids it really is just about liking sequins or spiderman, pink or red, dolls or trucks. But for some of these kids the really important thing is to have something that allows people to recognize and validate that their gender does not match their bodies.

Want to write more but too difficult on my iPhone!

[dykeumentary]

I thought I'd posted here before but apparently not. I've been raising my 6yo granddaughter since she was 20m, and she is "gender variant" and every year further affirms that she will be a boy named Michael when she grows up.

While I completely agree with Dykeumentary about wishing that colors and accessories weren't gendered, I have also seen that for a lot of these kids, having those gendered markers is crucial to their gender expression. For some kids it really is just about liking sequins or spiderman, pink or red, dolls or trucks. But for some of these kids the really important thing is to have something that allows people to recognize and validate that their gender does not match their bodies.

Want to write more but too difficult on my iPhone!

Agreed, Dance-With-Me, but the reason I posted this is because they are using sequins as a marker for homosexuality. As usual, it comes back to consent. If a child chooses to use "gendered markers" to indicate their gender, that is great. My question is: To which markers can a child give informed consent that have anything to do with the kind of sex they'd like to have as an adult?

I guess the thing that makes me most sad about this is its just another article reinforcing tired old sexist assumptions. Not surprising that they reference the HRC several times.

[~baby~doll~]

In a society which is rife with gender stereotypes and biases, children regularly learn to adopt gender roles which are not always fair to both sexes. As children move through childhood and into adolescence, they are exposed to many factors which influence their attitudes and behaviors regarding gender roles. These attitudes and behaviors are generally learned first in the home and are then reinforced by the child's peers, school experience, and television viewing. However, the strongest influence on gender role development seems to occur within the family setting, with parents passing on, both overtly and covertly, to their children their own beliefs about gender. This overview of the impact of parental influence on gender role development leads to the suggestion that an androgynous gender role orientation may be more beneficial to children than strict adherence to traditional gender roles.
http://gozips.uakron.edu/~susan8/parinf.htm

We are assigned these roles before we get home and are expected by tradition to adapt and follow what has gone before us.
Melissa says in her song Gotta Go Now

Women can work
As long as dinner is done
And if you let little girls play with trucks
Their sexuality gets all screwed up
This is so the truth about being forced into expectations rather than allowing us to be who we are.

[Ginger]

Every time we reach for an article of clothing to get dressed in the morning we're making a decision based on countless considerations; some conscious, some unconscious. It isn't possible to dress in a neutral way.

As adults on this site supporting the butch/femme identity, our clothes might be seen to send signals as to our sexual preference.

I don't dress "like a femme" because I'm supporting the binary gendering of girls in childhood. But some might interpret it that way.

I also don't dress this way because I'm sending a message to butch women, though that's a perk I guess.

So why do I affect a stereotypically feminine appearance (if you don't look too closely)?

Can't even begin to answer that one right now. But good thread! I like the questions it brings up.

[Nat]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/s403x403/1005755_10151458085886863_1428362944_n.jpg

I saw this posted on facebook - no idea if it's a true story or not, but it's cute.

[puddin']

i was kicked out of ballet, not girl enough.
i was kicked out of girl scouts, not girl enough.
i neva wanted to be girl enough, so thank you vera much...

[Greyson]

I think each and everyone of us are impacted by the stereotyping of gender markers. Can children really make an informed decision on many things? Most likely some can and some cannot. (BTW, it depends on one's interpretation of "informed".)

Here is an article/link I ran across today. For better or for worse this camp for young genderqueer cis-boys, I think is a step forward. There is a space where they are free to express their gender without harsh retribution, judgement.

Here is another link on a blog that offers some comment, thought to as the why and how of it in gender expression of genderqueer children.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2012/08/15/gender-variance-still-drafting-working-on-better-hed/

__________________________________________________ _______

A Boys' Camp to Redefine Gender

By David Rosenberg | Posted Monday, July 15, 2013

Over the past three years, photographer Lindsay Morris has been documenting a four-day camp for gender nonconforming boys and their parents.

Although it is unknown if the kids at the camp will eventually identify as gay or transgender—or even if the way gender and sexuality are defined throughout society will evolve—the camp allows the kids to look at themselves in a completely different way.

Read More:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2013/07/15/_you_are_you_looks_at_a_gender_nonconforming_camp_ for_boys_photos.html?fb_ref=sm_fb_plugin_activity

[Nat]

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/p320x320/1383270_10151625963281863_166230665_n.png

Ran across this today on facebook and found it hopeful.

[Sheridan]

As a little kid I fought against those that tried to make me a little cute girl. I would ask my mother for boy toys and she let me have them. If I was given dolls I played superheroes and cops and robbers with them not house and barbie dream house (my dolls were GI-Janes). My favorite things were my toy cars and trucks, my bicycle, and stuff animals (which every gender in childhood love, they are soft and cuddly). I would not wear girlie clothes and if someone tried to stick me in pink and ruffles, I threw a total fit. :bigcry:

This kid is my hero:

srnaXW9ZgZc

[Soon]

Campbell Co. girl asked to leave school because of boyish appearance (http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/campbell-county-girl-asked-to-leave-school-because-of-boyish-appearance/25161760)

_Y4g9BccmyY

Campbell Co. girl asked to stop attending school because of her "boyish" looks

LYNCHBURG, Va. -
You won't have any problem getting Sunnie Kahle to open up about her hobbies.


The energetic eight-year-old will proudly show you her collection of coins, hunting knives, and autographed baseballs.

"It's fun," she explained, when asked why she enjoys collecting those items.

Kahle likes teddy bears and colorful bracelets, but for the most part she's interested in things that might be considered "boy hobbies."

"Sunnie realizes she's a female, but she wants to do boy things," said Doris Thompson, Kahle's great-grandmother and legal guardian. "She wants to play rough and tough."

Thompson has raised Kahle since she was an infant. When she turned five, Thompson said she asked for a short hair cut.

"She had hair down to her waist and she wanted to give it to a child with cancer," said Thompson. "After we cut her hair she started wanting to wear jeans and a t-shirt. She didn't want to wear her frilly dresses anymore."

Her appearance started leading to awkward questions at school.

Kahle said her classmates would occasionally ask if she was a boy or a girl, but she said the question did not hurt her feelings.

The issue caught the attention of administrators at Timberlake Christian School, where Kahle was a student.

Elementary principal Becky Bowman sent home a letter last month, reminding Thompson of the school's religious affiliation and it's right to refuse students who contradict a "biblical lifestyle."

"We believe that unless Sunnie and her family clearly understand that God has made her female and her dress and behavior need to follow suit with her God-ordained identity, that TCS is not the best place for her future education," Bowman wrote in the letter, which was given to WDBJ7 by Thompson.

Thompson said she was offended by the letter's language and its references to biblical passages about sexual immorality.

"To claim that we are condoning sexual immorality in our home is nonsense," Thompson said. "We are Christians. We understand the Bible. Sunnie knows it very well. She has accepted Christ."

Thompson says Kahle is simply a tomboy, and that she's too young to understand sexual orientation or gender issues.

"If my child grows up to be homosexual or transgendered, I will love her that much more," Thompson said.

Although she wasn't forced to leave, Kahle is now in public school and no longer attending Timberlake Christian. She wishes things would have turned out differently.

"I should just be able to be me and not let them worry about it," Kahle said.

Jeff Abbett, administrator of Timberlake Christian Schools, sent WDBJ7 the following statement Tuesday afternoon:

"We are heart-broken that Sunnie’s grandparents have made her the subject of a public discussion. We regret that they made the decision to withdraw Sunnie immediately from Timberlake Christian Schools.

For confidentiality reasons related to a minor, it is not possible for us to explain in full detail the volume of documentation we have concerning the situation that the grandparents have made public. There is much more to this story than has been revealed related to Sunnie and the classroom environment. Our documentation shows a significantly different narrative than the one portrayed in the original news report.

You can be assured that we have cared for Sunnie and worked with her grandparents for several years to assist them. Our TCS teachers and administrators love Sunnie and we can assure everyone that this has never been an issue of hair length or boots as it has been portrayed. It has been our constant desire over the last several years to work with this family and to shepherd this precious little girl in a way consistent with traditional values.

As a private Christian school, we have the responsibility to all our students to assist parents to instill the Christian values upon which our school is founded.

We reiterate that the decision to remove Sunnie was entirely that of the grandparents."

Thompson said that Kahle never had any behavioral issues at TCS and maintained a 4.0 average in her academic work. She said the only disciplinary issue that Kahle might have caused was that she wanted to wear boy's pants as part of her school uniform.

[Soon]

http://www.wdbj7.com/blob/view/-/25165848/data/3/-/i726yd/-/TCS-letter-to-Doris-Thompson.pdf

[Ginger]

Maybe they need to make their policy toward students' gender expression more clear in their admission and recruitment materials. I'm assuming it's a private school, and doesn't receive federal or state funds.

[EnderD_503]

http://www.wdbj7.com/blob/view/-/25165848/data/3/-/i726yd/-/TCS-letter-to-Doris-Thompson.pdf

That letter is just gross. God-ordained identity? Bloody hell :lol2:

[*Anya*]

8 year-old girl disqualified from soccer game because she 'looks like a boy'

SPRINGFIELD, Nebr. (WOWT) Mili Hernandez is 8 years-old. She loves soccer - and her short haircut.

Mili told WOWT 6 News: "When my hair starts to grow I put it short because I've always had short hair. I didn't like my hair long."

Mili plays soccer for Omaha's Azzuri Cachorros girls club team. She's so good that she plays on the 11 year-old roster even though she's 8. Her father, Gerardo Hernandez, couldn't be more proud. He told WOWT 6 News: "It's what she likes. It's what she always wants to do - play soccer."

This weekend Mili helped lead her team to the finals of the Springfield Soccer Club girls tournament. However, before taking the field on Sunday, Mili and her team were suddenly disqualified. Springfield soccer organizers insisted Mili was a boy.

Gerardo Hernandez told WOWT 6 News that his daughter "was in shock." He continued: "She was crying after they told us... They made her cry."

Mili added: "Just because I look like a boy doesn't mean I am a boy. They don't have a reason to kick the whole club out."

Mili's family claims they showed her insurance card to tournament organizers in an effort to prove she's a girl. It wasn't enough.

Mili's brother, Cruz Hernandez, told WOWT 6 News: "They didn't want to listen. They said the president made his decision and there wasn't any changing that."

Mili told WOWT 6 News she thinks the situation isn't fair. However, she won't let it stop her from playing. She said: "There's other tournaments that I can play."

Springfield Soccer Club organizers declined WOWT 6 News's request for an interview, directing us to contact their attorney on Monday, instead.

Organizers also said if Mili's family wants to challenge the disqualification they can appeal it with the Nebraska State Soccer Association.


http://media.graytvinc.com/images/690*448/MILI1.JPG

http://www.wowt.com/content/news/8-year-old-girl-disqualified-from-soccer-game-because-she-looks-like-a-boy-426397041.html

[Soft*Silver]

I was talking to my 3 year old grand daughter about her 3 month old baby sister. A friend of theirs had had a baby boy. I told her that if her baby sister had been born a boy, he would be her brother. She was adamant that she would be her sister...I was trying to explain to her gender...and caught myself...and listened to her. THIS is where it starts. This gender role assignment of others. We dress them in pink or blue and thats when self assignment begins but to assign others, its in the ID of brother sister, mommy daddy...

I really listen to her...she has alot to teach me...

[Gemme]

8 year-old girl disqualified from soccer game because she 'looks like a boy'

SPRINGFIELD, Nebr. (WOWT) Mili Hernandez is 8 years-old. She loves soccer - and her short haircut.

Mili told WOWT 6 News: "When my hair starts to grow I put it short because I've always had short hair. I didn't like my hair long."

Mili plays soccer for Omaha's Azzuri Cachorros girls club team. She's so good that she plays on the 11 year-old roster even though she's 8. Her father, Gerardo Hernandez, couldn't be more proud. He told WOWT 6 News: "It's what she likes. It's what she always wants to do - play soccer."

This weekend Mili helped lead her team to the finals of the Springfield Soccer Club girls tournament. However, before taking the field on Sunday, Mili and her team were suddenly disqualified. Springfield soccer organizers insisted Mili was a boy.

Gerardo Hernandez told WOWT 6 News that his daughter "was in shock." He continued: "She was crying after they told us... They made her cry."

Mili added: "Just because I look like a boy doesn't mean I am a boy. They don't have a reason to kick the whole club out."

Mili's family claims they showed her insurance card to tournament organizers in an effort to prove she's a girl. It wasn't enough.

Mili's brother, Cruz Hernandez, told WOWT 6 News: "They didn't want to listen. They said the president made his decision and there wasn't any changing that."

Mili told WOWT 6 News she thinks the situation isn't fair. However, she won't let it stop her from playing. She said: "There's other tournaments that I can play."

Springfield Soccer Club organizers declined WOWT 6 News's request for an interview, directing us to contact their attorney on Monday, instead.

Organizers also said if Mili's family wants to challenge the disqualification they can appeal it with the Nebraska State Soccer Association.


http://media.graytvinc.com/images/690*448/MILI1.JPG

http://www.wowt.com/content/news/8-year-old-girl-disqualified-from-soccer-game-because-she-looks-like-a-boy-426397041.html

This is effin ridiculous. I would challenge the board. Absolutely.

[Steele]

That's just ridiculous, they should totally challenge the board....

[lisa93]

I do and don't to an extent.

[Nat]

Ran across this today and thought of this thread:

Girl Was Denied Her First Communion If She Wore A Pantsuit (http://abc13.com/2523480/?sf121458643=1)

ST. JOHN, Indiana -- Thanks to a viral Facebook post, a 9-year-old girl from Indiana is receiving major support after getting banned from wearing a pantsuit to her first holy communion.

An Indiana girl who was banned from wearing a pantsuit to her First Holy Communion is getting support after her mom's Facebook post went viral. (Chris Mansell/Facebook)

The mother of Cady Mansell said her daughter planned to wear a white pantsuit to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament last month at St. John the Evangelist Parish in St. John, Indiana.

"Me and my mom were talking about what I was going to wear and I said, 'I want to wear a white suit!'" Cady said. "But I don't really like dresses, I don't like them. They're too itchy."

"She felt beautiful in this suit. And she wears suits all the time. She's worn suits for school pictures. She just wore a suit to the daddy-daughter dance in January," said Chris Mansell, Cady's mother.

But when the day arrived, Cady was not allowed to wear pants because the church required a dress.

"If your daughter wears a suit, comes here in a suit on Sunday. She will not be given communion and will be asked to leave," Chris Mansell said the priest told her. "So my husband said, 'Well, I guess we're done here. I think I'm leaving your church.'"

Not only did Cady miss her first holy communion, the Mansell family said they've decided to move to a different church in Crown Point.

On Wednesday, a spokeswoman from St. John the Evangelist released a statement, emphasizing that this was only a dress code issue, nothing more.

"St. John the Evangelist uniformly enforces dress codes at our parish school and for religious rites," the statement said. "We often have requests for exceptions to the dress code, ranging from sneakers to the color of one's shirt; thus, we have consistently chosen to adhere to the dress code rather than allowing a myriad of exceptions to it."

A blogger contacted Chris about her daughter possibly being transgender. Her response was that she is not.

"The writer said Cady was transgender. While I have no problem with that, she is not - or hasn't expressed that. She's nine. Right now, I joke that the only thing Cady identifies as is a Jedi or a Storm Trooper," her mother said.

Chris said in her Facebook posts that Cady's pants weren't the only issue. She said the priest at St. John the Evangelist made comments about their parenting and, ultimately, that's the reason the family decided to leave the church.