Recession or Depression?

[Ldyluck88]

The economy sucks right now and I'm sure it has affected many on this site. I thought it would be interesting to share stories on how this recession/depression has affected your lives, whether it be positive or negative.

I have been unemployed for almost 2 yrs. Lost my home, my job and my self dignity all at one time! I was lucky to find a friend who allowed me to move in with her. My unemployment is running out now, and I'm struggling to find a job. The only avenue of looking for work now is via the internet. Employers will not accept applications face to face, which is absurb to me!! And, it seems to me that once you are over that "50" mark, they won't give you the time of day(they ask for the year you graduated high school). Believe it or not, I cannot even get a job at Walmart!! It's very frustrating to be able bodied, have years of experience, and the employers judge me via a piece of paper submitted on the internet!! Times have changed, I understand, but I am NOT a senior citizen yet, and I can wrap corners around alot of the younger generation. My good ethics and can do attitude does nothing for me now, as I'm at the mercy of the internet employers.

What's your story??

[Daywalker]

The economy sucks right now and I'm sure it has affected many on this site. I thought it would be interesting to share stories on how this recession/depression has affected your lives, whether it be positive or negative.

I have been unemployed for almost 2 yrs. Lost my home, my job and my self dignity all at one time! I was lucky to find a friend who allowed me to move in with her. My unemployment is running out now, and I'm struggling to find a job. The only avenue of looking for work now is via the internet. Employers will not accept applications face to face, which is absurb to me!! And, it seems to me that once you are over that "50" mark, they won't give you the time of day(they ask for the year you graduated high school). Believe it or not, I cannot even get a job at Walmart!! It's very frustrating to be able bodied, have years of experience, and the employers judge me via a piece of paper submitted on the internet!! Times have changed, I understand, but I am NOT a senior citizen yet, and I can wrap corners around alot of the younger generation. My good ethics and can do attitude does nothing for me now, as I'm at the mercy of the internet employers.

What's your story??

I'll share a few details.
:coffee:

Mrs. Daywalker (aka Lady Flamezzz) is a Nurse...a multi-certified, multi State
licensed LPN-2 to be exact. Last year we relocated back to my home state of
California. Over the last year it has become painfully evident that my working
abilities that I have enjoyed all my life are now at a close, because my health
sucks ass and is not getting any better. So the Mrs. was left to Job Search solo
when we arrived. Fast forward past the bullshit of taking 4 months longer than
necessary to get her Ca State Nursing License, we been in a heap of trouble
for months, bordering on losing all we had left and making a tent house on the
street. Ok, so she gets online and applies to many places. She takes the test
for the State Prison System; every interview was followed up by a Freeze in
hiring. Same seems to have happened with most of the places, even Flu
Clinics that we sent hella paperwork to, that costs us money to have
Notarized, etc...all of the sudden no one can afford to hire the Staff they
advertised as needing. 6 months ago, we pounded the pavement, so to
speak...and drove to a few of the places that we saw online. I waited in
the car for hours while she went in, handed them her packet of goodies
n credentials...maybe filled out an Application or did some testing.
:glasses:

No response from them...until just recently.
:nurseshot:
One of the places we visited in person months ago...called!
:phonegab:

For the last month she has been working her ass off to take a Full
Time position, and she just got notice the other day that she is gonna
get 3-12 hour shifts per week. This has saved our asses like you just
don't know. Yes, she is a woman of size and over age 50, and
yes...we know this has been a factor in the hiring process.
:dots:

But she is also a woman of substance who has many many years of
experience to share and these folks called her, interviewed her for a
brand new ward they were opening...and she is now employed.
:dance2:

So online was not the only place to find jobs, turns out the old fashioned
in your face method worked for us in this case, in her field.
That's just pieces of our story over the last year.
:seeingstars:

In the darkest times, our Friends and Family have gotten us through and at
times it has brought me to tears knowing that so many cared and prayed
and gave us support when we most needed it.
:bouquet::praying: :bouquet:

And I wish everyone who is in the suck ass position we have been in the
same kind of support that we have been fortunate enough to receive.
:gimmehug:

We're still in many binds and it will take a couple months or more
to see through the dust, but we have something to hang onto
now and are grateful as hell for it.

:bowdown:


:daywalker:

[Ldyluck88]

Thanks so much for sharing Daywalker, it gives me hope and others too, I'm sure. I'm glad you all found a job through tenacity and hard work. This inspires me to do the same. :)

[Andrew, Jr.]

I most definitely would have to say this is a depression. Too few have decent jobs. Too many folks are working at jobs that they are over qualified for, or have 3 or 4 part time jobs to just keep surviving. Many have had no raises or bonuses for a year or longer.

The US is in trouble. I think as a country we need to stop out-sourcing jobs, and start creating jobs that pay decent wages/benefits once again.

[Rockinonahigh]

I am so glad somethig has worked out for u and Mrs.Daywalker,Good nurses are very hard to find,congrats to u both.

[Corkey]

My parents were of the Great Depression era. Now let me explain why I think we are in a recession and not a depression. Our banking system though bruised is still functioning, our supermarkets still have food on their shelves, and though there are millions without jobs, there are millions more who do. While some may be eating from soup kitchens, I dare say it isn't in droves like it was in the early part of the 20th century. This rescission reminds me of the 1970's when gas was rationed and layoffs due to government (Reagan) regulations, and union unrest. That recession I am a product of.
My folks ate more potatoes than meat, and they owned a farm, so no not a depression but a deep recession. Housing starts are up, but that could be due to the improved weather. Small businesses are improving, this from direct observance, and the stimulus is working, slowly but it's working. All of this wasn't true in the depression.
I hope you find work, keep plugging away, there are resources out there.
Good luck.

[Jess]

In our little corner of the world...

http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com/article.cfm?ID=18322


and unemployment funds running out...

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/08/news/economy/state_funds_jobless_benefits/

One of our two grocery stores closed down recently. Food Lion and a Lowe's Food's were the only competition for Wal-mart until FL closed in the past month. Like the good capitalist pig they are, Wal- mart immediately fired quite a few full time employees replacing them with part timers now displaced from FL. We do have one tiny little pvtly owned market that is of course understocked and over priced, but we buy our meats there as they are fresh cut and better than the other options.

The median income for a household in the county was $28,705, and the median income for a family was $36,232. Males had a median income of $25,391 versus $18,711 for females. The per capita income for the county was $15,574. About 9.60% of families and 13.40% of the population were below the poverty line, including 15.40% of those under age 18 and 18.00% of those age 65 or over.( This paragraph from census reportings)

So, around here.. whether it is a depression or recession, it's pretty damned depressing.

[Ldyluck88]

I appreciate all your replies and insights to our nation in general. It is not easy in todays environment to survive, and yes, I do believe it will get better, but not anytime soon. Obama needs to figure out how to create new jobs, and helping the middle class people, before I see any turn in employment.
Until then..I think we all are in survival mode and need to help each other.

[AtLast]

I know that what is upon us does not fit the technical definition of an economic depression, but this recession depresses me! I mean it, it does affect my moods.

I have seen a lot of local businesses closing down here, yet, I know that there are several other areas of the US that are far worse off. Thinking of Michigan as one. There are certainly others

I have never felt anger as deeply as I do right now with such institutions as banks and Wall Street. Its a very different kind of anger... more personal. I'm part of the Baby Boom generation that has contributed throughout my working life to the Social Security System and supported those that retired before me. I paid in for the previous generations to have security in old age- Now, this is being threatened. Of course, I developed other sources of retirement income- and that was pilfered by the banking industry and stock market! And my current tax contributions were used to bail-out these assbites that make millions!!

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for what I have. However, there is something really wrong in this picture! Truth be known, my kid and his kids do owe me the same economic contributions that I (and the rest of us) have made. There are no exemptions due anyone! I'm tired of the whinning!!!

Billions of dollars have been spent on a war that has been the main source of our deficit rising as it has. We were lied to about that war and are now being fed BS about Afghanistan! Do not take this as any ill will against our troops. They do not make policy and I have no problem with backing up what they need financially now that we have put them in harms way. We need to help them out after leaving the military as well. But, I'm tired of all of the belly aching about the younger generations not deserving our debt. Those before them deserve what they worked hard for in contributing to. Also, the majority attend publically funded schools, drive on publically funded roads, etc. They have reaped the benefits of past generations. They are as responsible as we were, to maintain these systems. No, there is no free lunch…

I am absolutely outraged at particular congressional members halting unemployment benefits! This in an insurance system, that workers pay into so that during times like this, there is something to fall back on!! It isn't an entitlement! The money is from the labor of workers that need it at this time!

Yes, I’m ranting…

[weatherboi]

hey everybody!!!
great thread!!

long story short

i own a buisness i bought back in 2005
i was doing great up until the bailout of October 2008
then the consumer panic button went off and the service industry took a turn
i have been fighting this recession for almost 2 years now and i am running out of cash to keep it afloat *shrugs* :deadhorse:
my life is too short to keep swinging

are we in a recession or a depression??
i think we are in a recession heading towards a depression...why??

because i think wall street's greedy philosophy is partly to blame...i read an article a few years back that explains it fairly well...i am gonna go find it

do i think it is gonna happen in 2011??:eek: i dunno
what i do know is that we will continue to be told "it is gonna turn around soon", but I don't see it.

here is the article *this is not the only one i based my thoughts on*
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/well-great-depression-2-2011

i am all about SLOW MONEY Capitalism/Natural/Nuture capitalism
i feel it is a start

[Apocalipstic]

I am lucky, I have a job, but my G/F lost her job with General Motors. She is back in school and I am paying the bills. We are making it work and I feel very lucky to live in an area not as heavily hit as many others.

Luckily, I have some money in the bank or we would be mega screwed.

[Ldyluck88]

I am absolutely outraged at particular congressional members halting unemployment benefits! This in an insurance system, that workers pay into so that during times like this, there is something to fall back on!! It isn't an entitlement! The money is from the labor of workers that need it at this time!

Yes, I’m ranting…

I totally agree with your whole post Atlast and it's ok to rant because these are hard times and yes, we paid into the unemployment for years, and now we are left with empty pocketbooks!!
Thanks for sharing your views. :)

[Ldyluck88]

hey everybody!!!
great thread!!

long story short

i own a buisness i bought back in 2005
i was doing great up until the bailout of October 2008
then the consumer panic button went off and the service industry took a turn
i have been fighting this recession for almost 2 years now and i am running out of cash to keep it afloat *shrugs* :deadhorse:
my life is too short to keep swinging

are we in a recession or a depression??
i think we are in a recession heading towards a depression...why??

because i think wall street's greedy philosophy is partly to blame...i read an article a few years back that explains it fairly well...i am gonna go find it

do i think it is gonna happen in 2011??:eek: i dunno
what i do know is that we will continue to be told "it is gonna turn around soon", but I don't see it.

here is the article *this is not the only one i based my thoughts on*
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/well-great-depression-2-2011

i am all about SLOW MONEY Capitalism/Natural/Nuture capitalism
i feel it is a start

I am lucky, I have a job, but my G/F lost her job with General Motors. She is back in school and I am paying the bills. We are making it work and I feel very lucky to live in an area not as heavily hit as many others.

Luckily, I have some money in the bank or we would be mega screwed.

I hear ya weatherboi..we keep hearing that it's "turning around" but all I hear about is more people losing their jobs or home!! ugh I hope things turn around for you and everyone!! Thanks for sharing your story. :)

Apocalipstic..I'm happy you and your g/f are making it. Sorry to hear your g/f lost her job and hope she finds one again. I wish you both good luck!
Thanks for sharing. :)

[AtLast]

In reading the thread, I am thinking a lot about organizations like Kiva.com (http://www.kiva.org/) and how this concept could be applied to the queer community at large.

I remember a time when small personal loans by family members, friends, church organizations, community programs, etc. were made to support small business enterprises and this actually got the business going in the right direction.

I am so ticked-off with the big banks not lending to small business during a time when it really could make a difference for so many. People who have fantastic ideas and a good business sense (which I don't) that just need a little help.

There are countless people like this right here!

If anyone has links that could be of benefit to the queer community entrepreneurs.. please post them. I can’t plunk down a bunch of cash, but what id my $5, $10, etc. could join forces with others and give a much needed boost to someone here or part of the larger LGBTIQ populations?

[Daywalker]

Gonna share a quote:


"...sometimes it seems our Gov't tries to 'help out' the Middle Class, but then
the results are...less and less Middle Class folks to help out. Perhaps focusing
on the folks caught up in the Poverty level would be the better approach,
then there could be less and less folks...living in Poverty" ~ Sir Day Walker

:glasses:

:daywalker:

[Ldyluck88]

I was just checking out the Employment website and this is what they said:

As of March 19, 2010, approximately 3,300 individuals in California have run out of all available benefits and EDD estimates a total of 100,000 to 130,000 unemployed workers could run out of all benefits in the next few weeks.
With all these peope being unemployed, I hope someone comes up with a scathingly brilliant idea to get the nation back on track!

[Linus]

Eep.. And we're about to move to California this summer. K will be looking for work in the social work field and has connections so we're hopeful for that. I'm lucky because my work can be pretty much done from anywhere (and the company is going full steam ahead with a work visa). I know some might view me as taking a job away from someone else; the reality is, however, that I'm pretty specialized in my knowledge and skills so puts me in a bit of a unique situation.

That said, I'm leaning towards more of a split: some areas are in a recession while others depression (e.g., Michigan and California have both been suffering extensively for a while now, especially Michigan). I think more support for the smaller businesses (traditionally the backbone of any nation and the driving force behind pushing recession/depressions away) would go a long way, regardless of where in the country someone is. The past is what put us here but we need to move beyond that and find ways -- if necessary -- on our own to support ourselves and get beyond where the world is now. Kiva is one and I'm sure there are others as well.

What small business ideas can we toss around to help each other get on our feet using skills we have?

[Sachita]

Thankfully I own part of my land free and clear. I did this in the beginning, refinancing the mortgage on the house and a few acres leaving me lots free and clear. You never really know what's going in the world today and the trends are all over the place often crumbling.

I have fantasies all the time about living with no impact. No electric, simple, free, grow my own food and completely sustain. I play it out in my head all the time. How could I live happy with very little? Is my health good enough to make it? If not what do I need to do to make it so?

I have this wild hair up my ass. I work three times harder to make less. Sometimes I feel like a hamster on one of those wheels going around and around. It's just fucking insane and I've decided that come hell or high water I'm going to do something about it. I just cant wait for the government or anyone else to make me happy or take care of me. Screw 401K, putting money in banks (if you have it) and screw SS. I'd rather be spending my money on learning how to escape it all, sit by the creek, ponder, connect with the earth and watch the rest of it go by. What would it really take? what do you really need? Could you do it if you had to? I mean live as people did 100 years ago.

[Sachita]

lol- oh this is for Bit- No stinking toilet paper! lol I know you'll remember some of the post we shared about survival.

[Linus]

Thankfully I own part of my land free and clear. I did this in the beginning, refinancing the mortgage on the house and a few acres leaving me lots free and clear. You never really know what's going in the world today and the trends are all over the place often crumbling.

I have fantasies all the time about living with no impact. No electric, simple, free, grow my own food and completely sustain. I play it out in my head all the time. How could I live happy with very little? Is my health good enough to make it? If not what do I need to do to make it so?

I have this wild hair up my ass. I work three times harder to make less. Sometimes I feel like a hamster on one of those wheels going around and around. It's just fucking insane and I've decided that come hell or high water I'm going to do something about it. I just cant wait for the government or anyone else to make me happy or take care of me. Screw 401K, putting money in banks (if you have it) and screw SS. I'd rather be spending my money on learning how to escape it all, sit by the creek, ponder, connect with the earth and watch the rest of it go by. What would it really take? what do you really need? Could you do it if you had to? I mean live as people did 100 years ago.

That's actually a similar goal as me. I want to get both a wind turbine and solar panels. I want no debt, one credit card (with $700 limit for emergency and limited online purchase), and land. I want to grow veggies and fruit to live off of and trade my skills with someone to get other things (barter system is an awesome way to go).

[Sachita]

That's actually a similar goal as me. I want to get both a wind turbine and solar panels. I want no debt, one credit card (with $700 limit for emergency and limited online purchase), and land. I want to grow veggies and fruit to live off of and trade my skills with someone to get other things (barter system is an awesome way to go).

No credit card. No debit. I will most likely transition into simple solar BUT my long term goal is not to reply on any company or business to live and sustain. Big fantasy huh? lol I know but I want to get as close as I can.

Look at the Amish? I don't want to adopt their religious beliefs but how they live. You don't see solar panels on those houses. lol

But seriously I see myself in a small simple cabin heated with wood. Growing my food, selling some of what I grow or trading. Maybe share a truck or my van with a few others, make monthly trips to the big city to buy things I can't make or grow. I'm not going to use paper towels, plastic bags, not even toilet paper. I'm sick and tired of the commercialism and not only do we get to struggle in this wanna be democracy but we get to destroy the planet as we suffer.

Yeah its heavy on my mind. I'm tolling a plan and I have my land with a nice creek. Nice cabin with a simple solar system to power my laptop, blackberry and so I can blog and tell everyone else how to do. If the power goes away, I'll still be ok.

[Sachita]

What small business ideas can we toss around to help each other get on our feet using skills we have?

you should network, pull together where each person has a skill set. One person does bees, another hens, another goats for cheese, some grow, some work, some build, Just like communities did way back in the old days.

One little seed can go on and on. I'm still eating tomatoes from seeds I planted years ago. Amazing isnt it?

[Ldyluck88]

Okay, ya'll I have the solution after reading your posts, here it is:
Let's do the ole commune thingy, we all live together, live off the land and promote peace and love!! lol :hippie:Do you think it would work?? I mean, hell, it worked in the 60's and they seemed to be happy! At least now, we could all apply for food stamps until our gardens grow, LMAO ;)
I don't mean to make fun of a serious problem, but it appears to me that nothing else seems to be working so we need to get back to basics, ya think! :thinking:

[Sachita]

Okay, ya'll I have the solution after reading your posts, here it is:
Let's do the ole commune thingy, we all live together, live off the land and promote peace and love!! lol :hippie:Do you think it would work?? I mean, hell, it worked in the 60's and they seemed to be happy! At least now, we could all apply for food stamps until our gardens grow, LMAO ;)
I don't mean to make fun of a serious problem, but it appears to me that nothing else seems to be working so we need to get back to basics, ya think! :thinking:

yes it would work if people worked at it and left drama out of it. It would work with a spiritual foundation, I dont mean religion or any set agenda but compassionate spiritual balance where everyone did their part.

Grab a tent, set up in the woods and just go for it. I bet in the end you;ll be healthier and happier. I'll give you fresh eggs if you mow my lawn. lol its only fives acres. Spend 10 hours in the garden pulling weeds, planting, hard work but you'll have all the fresh food you can eat.

[Kobi]

Necessity is the Mother of Invention but if it doesnt come with hot water and flush toilets, it is just not my thing. :)

It is kind of interesting to browse the help wanted ads, if there are any, to see they are looking for people with impecible skills, bubbly personalities, who are willing to work in hectic environment for peanuts. (Rough translation - non-complaining workhorse wanted to add to the disorganized, wasteful environment we call the workplace for minimum wage and no benefits.)

Living in a tourist area with a current unemployment rate of 13%, I was a bit miffed to see that employers are still being allowed to import workers from Jamica, Ireland, Russia etc.

And, it is unsettling to have found I wasnt allowed to refinance my mortgage due to idiotic new federal rules that were suppose to help me not hinder me.

I am thankful my Dad pounded into my head the need to pay myself before I pay any other bills. Savings have been a God send in this economy.

I'm thinking we should band together and become commodity brokers or risk taking bankers. Regardless of how crappy a job we do, we would still get millions in bonuses. :)

[Jess]

Nothing new under the sun!...

The notion and action of creating self sustaining communities ( like the Amish mentioned earlier) is not new at all and I am willing to bet we see a lot more of this type of thinking happening in the least expected places.

The idea of bartering and supporting/ utilizing farmer's markets and off grid sources for income/ housing/ healthcare and socialization are bound to make a return and we are seeing it already.

The issue with trying to just get a group of folks together to live off the land, as it were, is the same set of issues we have even just with on line communities ( as we have witnessed with many recent threads of discussions). There do have to be rules, unfortunately, or shit hits the fan. Even WITH rules it does, but at least with rules, folks have all agreed upon an ideology initially to fall back on in tiresome times.

There have been successful models to build from for those sincerely seeking to do this. The Amish Community for one, is a very successful albeit very sparse form of community.

The Federation of Egaliatarian Communities is a good working model that I am familiar with.

http://thefec.org/

And Lord knows.. Lesbians have been seeking and sometimes with measures of success to create womens land for evah. An interesting article about that journey ( still ongoing) from The New Yorker.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/03/02/090302fa_fact_levy


Good thread! thanks!

[Jess]

Necessity is the Mother of Invention but if it doesnt come with hot water and flush toilets, it is just not my thing. :)

It is kind of interesting to browse the help wanted ads, if there are any, to see they are looking for people with impecible skills, bubbly personalities, who are willing to work in hectic environment for peanuts. (Rough translation - non-complaining workhorse wanted to add to the disorganized, wasteful environment we call the workplace for minimum wage and no benefits.)

Living in a tourist area with a current unemployment rate of 13%, I was a bit miffed to see that employers are still being allowed to import workers from Jamica, Ireland, Russia etc.

And, it is unsettling to have found I wasnt allowed to refinance my mortgage due to idiotic new federal rules that were suppose to help me not hinder me.

I am thankful my Dad pounded into my head the need to pay myself before I pay any other bills. Savings have been a God send in this economy.

I'm thinking we should band together and become commodity brokers or risk taking bankers. Regardless of how crappy a job we do, we would still get millions in bonuses. :)



I still think there has to be a way for the LGBT community to form a group health plan. I don't know how, but dear god, there are enough of us doing without that it only seems a rational thing to pursue.

[turasultana]

seems to me it's starting to get better, but there's a lag still when it comes to jobs. there's still a lot of net credit loss on the horizon (meaning folks defaulting on credit card debt) and foreclosures coming up, but overall it's trending better. Dow broke 11K for example.

I'm seeing a lot more jobs listed on job sites and corporate websites. I sent out one resume just to test the waters and got a reply a couple days later and a phone interview tomorrow. I'm currently working contract, so a full time job would be nice. Not counting on this to be the one, but its encouraging to get a good response from the first resume sent.

Not negating anyone else's experience, just saying that economic indicators are showing an upward trend. It will take a year or so to be fully out, but we may plateau at a "new normal."

[Jess]

seems to me it's starting to get better, but there's a lag still when it comes to jobs. there's still a lot of net credit loss on the horizon (meaning folks defaulting on credit card debt) and foreclosures coming up, but overall it's trending better. Dow broke 11K for example.

I'm seeing a lot more jobs listed on job sites and corporate websites. I sent out one resume just to test the waters and got a reply a couple days later and a phone interview tomorrow. I'm currently working contract, so a full time job would be nice. Not counting on this to be the one, but its encouraging to get a good response from the first resume sent.

Not negating anyone else's experience, just saying that economic indicators are showing an upward trend. It will take a year or so to be fully out, but we may plateau at a "new normal."


Good luck lady!!!

[Sachita]

Nothing new under the sun!...

The notion and action of creating self sustaining communities ( like the Amish mentioned earlier) is not new at all and I am willing to bet we see a lot more of this type of thinking happening in the least expected places.

The idea of bartering and supporting/ utilizing farmer's markets and off grid sources for income/ housing/ healthcare and socialization are bound to make a return and we are seeing it already.

The issue with trying to just get a group of folks together to live off the land, as it were, is the same set of issues we have even just with on line communities ( as we have witnessed with many recent threads of discussions). There do have to be rules, unfortunately, or shit hits the fan. Even WITH rules it does, but at least with rules, folks have all agreed upon an ideology initially to fall back on in tiresome times.

There have been successful models to build from for those sincerely seeking to do this. The Amish Community for one, is a very successful albeit very sparse form of community.

The Federation of Egaliatarian Communities is a good working model that I am familiar with.

http://thefec.org/

And Lord knows.. Lesbians have been seeking and sometimes with measures of success to create womens land for evah. An interesting article about that journey ( still ongoing) from The New Yorker.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/03/02/090302fa_fact_levy


Good thread! thanks!

actually in our region there are quite a few communities. some open, some closed.


I really like this model
http://twinoaks.org/

its not far from here. everyone works within the community. check it out

[Jess]

Twin Oaks is part of the Fed. I used to go there a lot for mud baths, womens events or just hanging out. Good example :)

[Sachita]

Twin Oaks is part of the Fed. I used to go there a lot for mud baths, womens events or just hanging out. Good example :)

I want to make one like that but less people. They have 100 people. Plus it would be cool to have a bunch of queers.

[weatherboi]

hi turasultana!!

i am wondering where you get your information about the economy's "new normal" standing. What would be a "new normal'?? I have searched and searched without any luck on this term related to the economy. Would you mind throwing me a link on this please??



seems to me it's starting to get better, but there's a lag still when it comes to jobs. there's still a lot of net credit loss on the horizon (meaning folks defaulting on credit card debt) and foreclosures coming up, but overall it's trending better. Dow broke 11K for example.

I'm seeing a lot more jobs listed on job sites and corporate websites. I sent out one resume just to test the waters and got a reply a couple days later and a phone interview tomorrow. I'm currently working contract, so a full time job would be nice. Not counting on this to be the one, but its encouraging to get a good response from the first resume sent.

Not negating anyone else's experience, just saying that economic indicators are showing an upward trend. It will take a year or so to be fully out, but we may plateau at a "new normal."

[Ldyluck88]

Thanks everyone for sharing your stories/opinions/ideas!
I was thinking last night that with all the foreclosures, they could donate(fat chance) a home to the gay community on the premise the land gets used for gardening, etc. We can grow vegtables, sell some and be self sufficient.
Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I feel we have to be inventive because it is not getting any easier to survive.

[turasultana]

hi turasultana!!

i am wondering where you get your information about the economy's "new normal" standing. What would be a "new normal'?? I have searched and searched without any luck on this term related to the economy. Would you mind throwing me a link on this please??


I don't have a link. Just something I've heard said by the seniors where I work. And also I believe in relationship to spending /savings patterns overall going forward. I'll try to find some concrete examples of what I mean.

(I work in a huge bank/credit card company - we have town halls on this subject every couple weeks, so sometimes the jargon is by osmosis. :>)

[turasultana]

hi turasultana!!

i am wondering where you get your information about the economy's "new normal" standing. What would be a "new normal'?? I have searched and searched without any luck on this term related to the economy. Would you mind throwing me a link on this please??

Ok did a very quick google search. too many articles to list so just click here;

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=economy+new+normal&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=a2bb30ecf4f91972

and pick one! :)

[Bit]

My parents were of the Great Depression era. Now let me explain why I think we are in a recession and not a depression. Our banking system though bruised is still functioning, our supermarkets still have food on their shelves, and though there are millions without jobs, there are millions more who do. ....

I've heard that the unemployment rate during the Great Depression was 25%. I can't imagine what it would be like if one in every four of us were unemployed. It's difficult enough now when it's one in every nine or ten, yanno? And while the safety net is ripped and torn and too many people fall through, we do have at least a minimal safety net in place, for instance, food banks and utility help in many places.

My mom was a Depression Baby. I find myself thinking her favorite quote again and again... "Use it up, wear it out; make it do or do without."

lol- oh this is for Bit- No stinking toilet paper! lol I know you'll remember some of the post we shared about survival.

:scared: :bolt:

[PrudenceJuris]

Thanks everyone for sharing your stories/opinions/ideas!
I was thinking last night that with all the foreclosures, they could donate(fat chance) a home to the gay community on the premise the land gets used for gardening, etc. We can grow vegtables, sell some and be self sufficient.
Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I feel we have to be inventive because it is not getting any easier to survive.

There are grant opportunities to acquire land for small urban farming purposes, but you gotta be willing to move to Michigan. Oh well just my 2 cents.

[weatherboi]

Hey turasultana-

I did a search when I first read your original post and came up with pretty much the same results. Besides the first link...the buisness week link...most of them portray the "new normal" negatively. I found a couple of articles that tried to spin the idea that we should start accepting a "new normal" when it comes to this economy down turn because it is believed the "new normal" will fall shorter than the old economy "normal".

The articles I read tell me cutting back to survive is the "new normal"!!


Ok did a very quick google search. too many articles to list so just click here;

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=economy+new+normal&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=a2bb30ecf4f91972

and pick one! :)

[MsDemeanor]

I appreciate all your replies and insights to our nation in general. It is not easy in todays environment to survive, and yes, I do believe it will get better, but not anytime soon. Obama needs to figure out how to create new jobs, and helping the middle class people, before I see any turn in employment.
Until then..I think we all are in survival mode and need to help each other.
The House and the Obama administration have a multitude of ideas to help people. The problem lies with 41 Republican senators who refuse to let any legislation pass unless it benefits big business. 41 people who don't give a damn about working people and struggling Americans stand between our country's current situation and any hope for improvement.

[AtLast]

The House and the Obama administration have a multitude of ideas to help people. The problem lies with 41 Republican senators who refuse to let any legislation pass unless it benefits big business. 41 people who don't give a damn about working people and struggling Americans stand between our country's current situation and any hope for improvement.

And I think that this number is going to grow in November..... brace yourselves.... or get out there and start fighting!! Mid-term elections are so damn important!

[Ldyluck88]

The House and the Obama administration have a multitude of ideas to help people. The problem lies with 41 Republican senators who refuse to let any legislation pass unless it benefits big business. 41 people who don't give a damn about working people and struggling Americans stand between our country's current situation and any hope for improvement.

Overall, I feel the economy sucks!! So many illegal aliens who are taking jobs and not paying taxes, etc. I would love to have any job at this point!! Big business are the survivors, while the small businesses suffer. It is not easy to even find a minimum wage job now, trust me, I have tried!! I am not giving up, as my survival depends on it, or I will be out in the street soon.

[MsDemeanor]

Thank you for bringing racism in to the discussion.

[Bit]

Overall, I feel the economy sucks!! So many illegal aliens who are taking jobs and not paying taxes, etc. I would love to have any job at this point!! Big business are the survivors, while the small businesses suffer. It is not easy to even find a minimum wage job now, trust me, I have tried!! I am not giving up, as my survival depends on it, or I will be out in the street soon.

Ldyluck, I understand your frustration about not being able to get a job right now, and I wish you luck--may you find what you need!

Your assertion about taxes is dead wrong, though. Illegal aliens from any country DO pay taxes; they're held out of their paychecks just like everyone else's are. Think about it--these businesses would all be shut down by the IRS if they didn't pay the payroll taxes for their employees!

What happens is that since people have to use fake social security numbers to get the jobs in the first place--employers are REQUIRED to have social security cards on file for every employee--they pay the taxes but can never collect the benefits, not retirement, not Medicare, not disability, not unemployment, nothing.

I know this by direct experience; there are many illegal aliens connected to my family through two different branches. My one nephew's father, as a matter of fact, has been laid off and will soon be homeless himself if he cannot find another job.

These are hard-working people who ask for little other than a chance to make a living, and who receive even less than those of us with the proper birth certificates do. These are our neighbors, who only want to live safe lives with enough food on the table and a way to pay their rent every month. In a booming economy, we would hardly notice them; the suffering economy impacts them as much as it does everyone else. The solution is not to focus on them, but on the economy itself. The solution is to create more jobs to replace all the ones that big corporations have taken overseas.

[UofMfan]

Overall, I feel the economy sucks!! So many illegal aliens who are taking jobs and not paying taxes, etc. I would love to have any job at this point!! Big business are the survivors, while the small businesses suffer. It is not easy to even find a minimum wage job now, trust me, I have tried!! I am not giving up, as my survival depends on it, or I will be out in the street soon.

Do you really believe this?!

Oh and the correct terminology is undocumented individual, FYI.

[UofMfan]

...
Your assertion about taxes is dead wrong, though. Illegal aliens from any country DO pay taxes; they're held out of their paychecks just like everyone else's are. Think about it--these businesses would all be shut down by the IRS if they didn't pay the payroll taxes for their employees!

What happens is that since people have to use fake social security numbers to get the jobs in the first place--employers are REQUIRED to have social security cards on file for every employee--they pay the taxes but can never collect the benefits, not retirement, not Medicare, not disability, not unemployment, nothing.

I know this by direct experience; there are many illegal aliens connected to my family through two different branches. My one nephew's father, as a matter of fact, has been laid off and will soon be homeless himself if he cannot find another job.

These are hard-working people who ask for little other than a chance to make a living, and who receive even less than those of us with the proper birth certificates do. These are our neighbors, who only want to live safe lives with enough food on the table and a way to pay their rent every month. In a booming economy, we would hardly notice them; the suffering economy impacts them as much as it does everyone else. The solution is not to focus on them, but on the economy itself. The solution is to create more jobs to replace all the ones that big corporations have taken overseas.


Thank you!

[Ldyluck88]

I apologize if I have offended a few people by my post. Where I lived in the desert, many were paid under the table and did not pay taxes, etc. I should not have generalized, my fault. But, I am entitled to my opinion, like anyone else, and I will try to watch how I state things from now on.

[UofMfan]

I apologize if I have offended a few people by my post. Where I lived in the desert, many were paid under the table and did not pay taxes, etc. I should not have generalized, my fault. But, I am entitled to my opinion, like anyone else, and I will try to watch how I state things from now on.

The employer did not pay taxes, social security pension fund, health insurance, disability, etc. In addition, the employer gets the pleasure of having the worker do whatever or else report them, These people work in inhumane conditions.

If this wasn't a good deal for those honest employers, then this would not be a problem.

I am sure if you go to this place you speak of they would hire you. I say go for it.

And yes, we are all entitled to our opinions. But "I" prefer that racist remarks be left in the confine of our homes.

[Ldyluck88]

And yes, we are all entitled to our opinions. But "I" prefer that racist remarks be left in the confine of our homes.

I am not a racist if you are "assuming" I am. I apologized for the remark, but in no way does that make me a racist and did not appreciate you refering to me as one!! Enough said.

[christie]

I once worked for an employer in TN who made a practice of hiring employees who had "questionable documentation". While the documents they presented for I9 requirements had one name, they went by another and every year, the Department of Social Security would send a list of employees whose provided social security numbers did not match official records.

We were required to post the list and ask the employees to contact SS to resolve the issue. For the two years I was there, the list was the same and the employees listed were also the same.

These employees did have social security and medicare taxes withdrawn from their pay, but all of them had completed W-4's in a manner that no federal tax was withheld. TN doesn't have a state income tax, so there was no contribution to the state except in the sales tax they paid on purchases.

Of course, the employer paid matching SS and medicare taxes along with FUTA and SUTA.

I left employment there based on some other questionable activities that I could not be a party to once I became aware of them.

Of course, there are many employers who do have unofficial employees who are paid off the books or as 1099-MISC independent contractor. There are no employment taxes (SS, Medicare, SUTA or FUTA) paid nor are these folks eligible for any benefits.

Several years later, at a different employer, I was able to assist one of our employees in gaining his citizenship. The expense, things he had to learn, the process was so overwhelming even to me. Some of the things he had to learn to "pass the test" were questions that I had to look up - things that I am not even sure were covered in my many years of education.

It took him a good 5 years to obtain his citizenship and I was honored that he asked me to attend the ceremony. I watched as 51 people from 26 different countries took the oath of citizenship and it struck me as to how much they wanted to be a part of the country that we so often bitch and moan about - that they went through the ordeal to have some of the very rights we do have and take for granted. It was humbling, to say the least.

I still have a ring that he gave me as a thank you present that he purchased on his first trip back to visit his family (what was left of it) in Iraq. There are times when I am digging in my jewelry box that I come across it and think about Khalid and what becoming a citizen meant to him.

A slight derail to the topic at hand, I know, but I felt important to mention that while I understand non documented persons are just trying to feed their families and survive as the rest of us do, this issue does add to the overall economic issues.

Its not about racism, but more that I feel it needs to be easier, less costly for a person to become documented. I feel we need to make it more difficult for employers to "pay under the table" so that it solves both issues - the worker who works for meager pennies and the employer who surely uses this power he has over the worker to his advantage.

More to the topic at hand, the industry in which I work has historically shown economic trends 3-6 months before other industries. Q1, we have shown a 11% increase in sales, many "new business", which based on our 57 year history, indicates that we should see an upswing in the economy in the next 3-6 months. I watched the ebb and flow of our business last year and the 3-6 month theory held pretty well. It makes me hopeful.

[apretty]

Overall, I feel the economy sucks!! So many illegal aliens who are taking jobs and not paying taxes, etc. I would love to have any job at this point!! Big business are the survivors, while the small businesses suffer. It is not easy to even find a minimum wage job now, trust me, I have tried!! I am not giving up, as my survival depends on it, or I will be out in the street soon.

this sentiment would be laughable if it weren't rooted in ignorance and racism.

as far as your assertion that you would 'love to have any job at this point' --have you tried standing outside of home depot and picking up one of those day labor jobs that you think have been stolen from you?

[Ldyluck88]

this sentiment would be laughable if it weren't rooted in ignorance and racism.

as far as your assertion that you would 'love to have any job at this point' --have you tried standing outside of home depot and picking up one of those day labor jobs that you think have been stolen from you?

I'm so glad to see you are so judgmental in your assumption of me. Your ignorance does not warrant a response.

[betenoire]

I'm so glad to see you are so judgmental in your assumption of me. Your ignorance does not warrant a response.

I was wondering....these jobs that have been stolen from you (lawn maintenance, picking strawberries, cleaning toilets) would you be willing to work them for the same wages (less than minimum, let me tell you!) that these awful illegal immigrants who are ruining your life are doing them for?

Don't get all snippy. Just answer the questions.

1. I would be willing to clean some rich person's toilet for less than minimum wage with no medical insurance.
Circle True or False

2. I would be willing to work longer than 12 hour days picking fruit, while making less than minimum wage and getting no medical insurance.
Circle True or False

3. I would be willing to mow some assholes lawn. I don't mind that I will be making less than minimum wage and will receive no medical benefits.
Circle True or False

If you answered false to any of those questions kindly stfu about how the big bad illegal immigrants are stealing your jobs. YOU WOULD NOT BE WILLING TO DO THE JOBS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING. Admit it.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I apologize if I have offended a few people by my post. Where I lived in the desert, many were paid under the table and did not pay taxes, etc. I should not have generalized, my fault. But, I am entitled to my opinion, like anyone else, and I will try to watch how I state things from now on.

My illegal momma was someone's maid for years.. Wanna know why? Cause no one else wanted the fucking job, she didn't take it from anyone, she took what made her money to feed her kids with... So please yes be a lil bit more careful how you state things.. please and thank you:hippie:

I have to add because it bothers me it really does...

You are being judgemental by--- somehow conjuring up in your privileged mind that those who do not have the proper documentation to work in this USof A are *stealing* jobs from...

Who? Do these people go around knocking people down at the lines of people standing to pick the lettuce we all eat in a bag?

Do you think my non english speakin momma took someone's knees out to get this high end position? Do you know what maids do for rich folk?

Do you honestly think that the guys moving the lawns elbowed someone in the eye and got in front of the line at the company they got hired at?

I am really curious *how* you came to the conclusion jobs are being stolen by *illegal immigrants*

[UofMfan]

I am not a racist if you are "assuming" I am. I apologized for the remark, but in no way does that make me a racist and did not appreciate you refering to me as one!! Enough said.

I am not "assuming" anything, besides I am not the only one who got that from your comments and lack of sensitivity.

Most racist don't think they are being racists. I am not saying this is the case with you, but I invite you to take a closer look at your moral compass.

I will also invite you to look around this forum and see how low the tolerance is for "racist" remarks. There is a plethora of them available to anyone wishing to spew them, either directly or indirectly. This does not make them ok.

Your apology did not ring true to me, I am sorry but that is MY opinion.

As a member of the Latin community, I found your comments offensive.

[turasultana]

Taking this to another direction.. I just came out of a 1 1/2 hour presentation on consumer trends and the economy.

There's a free white paper (haven't looked at it yet but I believe its the same subject matter of the presentation) here: http://www.darwiniangale.com (edit: just looked and you have to fill in info to get it, be forewarned).

Basically how we've gone from an age of indulgence to an age of consequence where folks are more aware of the consequence of risk. They will still spend but prioritize their spending more and shop on value not just price.

Technically we're no longer in a recession but slow growth recovery (with bumps in the road).

Anyway, not going to bore you will all the details, but I took notes :)

[Ldyluck88]

I am not "assuming" anything, besides I am not the only one who got that from your comments and lack of sensitivity.

Most racist don't think they are being racists. I am not saying this is the case with you, but I invite you to take a closer look at your moral compass.

I will also invite you to look around this forum and see how low the tolerance is for "racist" remarks. There is a plethora of them available to anyone wishing to spew them, either directly or indirectly. This does not make them ok.

Your apology did not ring true to me, I am sorry but that is MY opinion.

As a member of the Latin community, I found your comments offensive.

I already apologized, and you will not give it a rest. I feel you are now beating a dead horse, let it die!! A new day, that was yesterday, it's gone and one cannot live in the past. DO NOT judge me, that is in God's hands, and tho you are entitled to you opinion, I too am entitled to mine. Btw, it is not up to you to question my morality, nor is it mine to question yours. Can you pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee stop all these negative comments now???? I read your "opinions', so noted, time to move on now, ok?

[Ldyluck88]

Taking this to another direction.. I just came out of a 1 1/2 hour presentation on consumer trends and the economy.

There's a free white paper (haven't looked at it yet but I believe its the same subject matter of the presentation) here: http://www.darwiniangale.com (edit: just looked and you have to fill in info to get it, be forewarned).

Basically how we've gone from an age of indulgence to an age of consequence where folks are more aware of the consequence of risk. They will still spend but prioritize their spending more and shop on value not just price.

Technically we're no longer in a recession but slow growth recovery (with bumps in the road).

Anyway, not going to bore you will all the details, but I took notes :)

Thank you for your post. I guess it may depend on where you live. Here in CA, it said: The number of people unemployed in California is 2,308,00--up by 31,000 over the month, and up by 362,000 compared to March of last year.
I hope you are right and jobs do become available to people. The government needs to find a way to create new jobs to help the economy grow once again. Keeping my fingers crossed!!

[SuperFemme]

In these types of conversations I often wonder why nobody brings up all the undocumented workers who DO pay taxes, pay into Social Security and Disability but can never file for those tax benefits?

The amount is astronomical.

[julieisafemme]

In these types of conversations I often wonder why nobody brings up all the undocumented workers who DO pay taxes, pay into Social Security and Disability but can never file for those tax benefits?

The amount is astronomical.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! Bit also brought this up a page or so back.

[MsDemeanor]

In these types of conversations I often wonder why nobody brings up all the undocumented workers who DO pay taxes, pay into Social Security and Disability but can never file for those tax benefits?

The amount is astronomical.
And that they buy food and gas and clothing and merchandise and services that contribute to the economy and to the tax base.

It's difficult to rant about a group of people sucking the life force out of the US economy if you have to acknowledge that they contribute to that economy. Better to just ignore the facts that are inconvenient.

[apretty]

immigrants: myth vs. facts

http://www.immigrantslist.org/myths_vs_facts

The 12 million undocumented immigrants in the United States, who comprise nearly one-third of all immigrants in the country, are not eligible for public benefits. According to the New York Times, “Illegal immigrants are pumping the Social Security system with as much as $7 billion a year and contributing to Medicare in payroll taxes, yet they are unable to collect on the benefits…Starting in the late 1980’s, the Social Security Administration received a flood of W-2 earnings reports with fake Social Security numbers. It stashed them in what it calls the “earnings suspense file” in the hope that someday it would figure out whom they belonged to…$189 billion worth of wages ended up recorded in the suspense file over the 1990’s…”

lots more condensed information on the site, immigrantslist.org

[Medusa]

It always grosses me out a little (ok, a lot) to hear a Queer person look to illegal immigrants (which almost always seems to be about "those damn Mexicans") as the source of "what they see wrong" with the employment system in this country.

I guess I expect more from us? Or I at least assume Queers will think twice before helping to marginalize another group of people since, well yanno...we have been marginalized so often ourselves, especially when it's due to ignorance, intolerance, or some form of 'ism or 'phobia.

I am getting to where I don't even like the term "illegal immigrant". Human beings are not "illegal". It seems unfair and problematic to me to attach what I perceive to be a negative connotation (the word "illegal") to an Immigrant who may not have the right political pull, thousands of dollars, or years worth of patience for our system to get it's head out of it's giant, smelly, racist, eurocentric ass so that they, too, can live the American dream.

Especially since 90% of the people in this country who point to "The Mexicans" as the "problem" won't do the research on where they, themselves, came from. I suspect a biggo boat full of Irish, Romany, Dutch, or German settlers might be somewhere in their midst.

[Soon]

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