Sonoma County CA Separates Elderly Gay Couple & Sells All Their Possessions

[Miss Scarlett]

If anyone believes the war for our equality is anywhere close to being over, this should prove otherwise. From Seattlepi.com:

Sonoma County CA separates elderly gay couple and sells all their possessions

Posted by Joe Mirabella at April 18, 2010 12:24 p.m.

There is nothing more personal than how we wish to spend our final years. After decades with our loved ones there should be no dispute that we should get to spend our final moments together. Unfortunately Sonoma County, CA treated Harold and Clay as if they were strangers.

Harold was 88 and Clay was 77 when their 20 year relationship was assaulted by Sonoma County. Harold's time here was coming to an end. He was ill and life was further complicated when he took a tumble down the stairs of their home. Harold was taken to the hospital.

Like most same sex couples who are committed to taking care of each other in sickness and in health, Harold and Clay set up legal documents prior to their personal crisis that were supposed to tell authorities to honor their relationship. Clay should have been able to visit Harold in the hospital and make decisions about his care. Instead, the county and health care professionals refused to let Clay even visit Harold in the hospital.

Tragic as that was, the county was not done with this family. More brutality than any government should inflict on a family -- they separated Clay and Harold by placing them in different nursing homes. Remember, Clay was in good health. He was involuntarily committed.

Kate Kendell, the National Director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights, a national legal organization committed to advancing the legal and human rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people wrote for the Bilerico Project:

Ignoring Clay's significant role in Harold's life, the county continued to treat Harold like he had no family and went to court seeking the power to make financial decisions on his behalf. Outrageously, the county represented to the judge that Clay was merely Harold's "roommate." The court denied their efforts, but did grant the county limited access to one of Harold's bank accounts to pay for his care.

What happened next is even more chilling.

Without authority, without determining the value of Clay and Harold's possessions accumulated over the course of their 20 years together or making any effort to determine which items belonged to whom, the county took everything Harold and Clay owned and auctioned off all of their belongings. Adding further insult to grave injury, the county removed Clay from his home and confined him to a nursing home against his will. The county workers then terminated Clay and Harold's lease and surrendered the home they had shared for many years to the landlord.

Three months after he was hospitalized, Harold died in the nursing home. Because of the county's actions, Clay missed the final months he should have had with his partner of 20 years. Compounding this tragedy, Clay has literally nothing left of the home he had shared with Harold or the life he was living up until the day that Harold fell, because he has been unable to recover any of his property. The only memento Clay has is a photo album that Harold painstakingly put together for Clay during the last three months of his life.

Clay was eventually released from the nursing home following a lawsuit. A further lawsuit is pending against Sonoma County, the auction company, and the nursing home. A trial date is set for July 16, 2010.

As important as this lawsuit is, there is nothing any government, court, or lawyer can do return the dignity and respect Harold and Clay were deprived. No authority will be able to return the last few months of Harold's life, or the chance for Clay and Harold to embrace each other one last time.

We need full legal recognition for same sex couples -- in name and law -- in every state in this country. We need it now.

For more information about this case visit NCLR's Elder Law Project.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/stepforward/archives/202464.asp

[Apocalipstic]

So none of the paperwork we have will work I guess. Wills, powers of attourney, hippa forms, all for nothing.

This is so very sad and telling.

If California acts like this, then those of us in way more conservative states are screwed for sure.

[christie]

And yet, we are supposed to be all happy that the current administration is making a rule that we can visit one another in the hospital.

While that is important,it feels, to me, like its really just "throwing us a bone" so that the bigger issue of equality isn't dealt with...

[Julien]

This is such an outrageous situation. Reading it made me sad for the couple and angry at the Sonoma County people who ruined two lives. Everything Sonoma County did was way out of line. Where is the compassion?

[Soon]

I can't stop thinking about this story...been sad all morning.

I keep thinking it's unreal...how could this happen?

ugh. so pissed about it.
heartbreaking.

:(

[Rufusboi]

So none of the paperwork we have will work I guess. Wills, powers of attourney, hippa forms, all for nothing.

This is so very sad and telling.

If California acts like this, then those of us in way more conservative states are screwed for sure.

Very Very scary. Melissa is a Brit citizen and we often joke about moving there later in life - national health and civil partnerships. Maybe we shouldn't joke. Maybe this is actually a viable alternative for us. We have all those docs too but what's the point if the county can come in and take over and take everything.

[suebee]

My partner's response when I read this to her was "I wonder if Clay will get a call from President Obama?"

[Andrew, Jr.]

Humans acting like donkeys.

[Deborah]

Humans acting like donkeys.


What an insult to donkeys...

[PearlsNLace]

A friend shared this link with me, and it helped with my frustrated feeling that there was nothing I could do about this situation.

Well, actually, there is a little something here we can do. This is what I have done, and you can do it to:

http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/6535/t/9634/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=2441


Just thought Id share.

[Corkey]

A friend shared this link with me, and it helped with my frustrated feeling that there was nothing I could do about this situation.

Well, actually, there is a little something here we can do. This is what I have done, and you can do it to:

http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/6535/t/9634/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=2441


Just thought Id share.

signed and shared, thank you.

[Apocalipstic]

I read the articles this morning and wondered what "The rest of the story" was.

If someone has medical power of attorney and presents it, it must be honored, regardless of the relationship. I mean, you could have anyone have your power of attorneys, even if they're not blood/legal family.

Why was the other partner put into a nursing home? Why were the belongings sold? Was the other partner suffering from dementia or otherwise infirm at the time? Was the paperwork submitted at the time, or discovered later after all this stuff had happened, which doesn't excuse it, but might explain it better.

There are a lot of holes in this story that need to be filled in as far as timelines before I am satisfied that this was an actual deliberate act of homophobia and not just some kind of paperwork snafu with disastrous results.

I don't like being used by either side of the media, and frankly, this feels a bit skewed to me.

It did however remind me of the 1st If Walls Could Talk (someone else go find the video, I'm too lazy) where the female couple had been together for 30 years and when one of them died, the other lost everything even though she had paid the mortgage too. I remember crying hard and long as I watched that.

AND ALSO! Don't use this story as a reason NOT to get protected in your partnership in anyway you can because you think "it doesn't matter". It does.

Tenants in common if you own a house
Legal AND Medical POA's
Wills
Right of Remains
Living Wills - Who gets to pull the plug

There's some other stuff, someone else can fill in. It seems like I have about 7 different documents with my partner outlining what will happen and who's in charge.

I did wonder about that. Will we ever know everything that happened?

We have a bunch of expensive documents too, and have never had any problems here in TN. I wonder if there was family involved?

It makes me pretty nervous.

[Jess]

I read the articles this morning and wondered what "The rest of the story" was.

If someone has medical power of attorney and presents it, it must be honored, regardless of the relationship. I mean, you could have anyone have your power of attorneys, even if they're not blood/legal family.

Why was the other partner put into a nursing home? Why were the belongings sold? Was the other partner suffering from dementia or otherwise infirm at the time? Was the paperwork submitted at the time, or discovered later after all this stuff had happened, which doesn't excuse it, but might explain it better.

There are a lot of holes in this story that need to be filled in as far as timelines before I am satisfied that this was an actual deliberate act of homophobia and not just some kind of paperwork snafu with disastrous results.

I don't like being used by either side of the media, and frankly, this feels a bit skewed to me.

It did however remind me of the 1st If Walls Could Talk (someone else go find the video, I'm too lazy) where the female couple had been together for 30 years and when one of them died, the other lost everything even though she had paid the mortgage too. I remember crying hard and long as I watched that.

AND ALSO! Don't use this story as a reason NOT to get protected in your partnership in anyway you can because you think "it doesn't matter". It does.

Tenants in common if you own a house
Legal AND Medical POA's
Wills
Right of Remains
Living Wills - Who gets to pull the plug

There's some other stuff, someone else can fill in. It seems like I have about 7 different documents with my partner outlining what will happen and who's in charge.


Agree! All we can do at the moment is to keep protecting ourselves as best as we can.

This may be helpful...

http://gbge.aclu.org/relationships

[Apocalipstic]

Does anyone know of a way to find out if the media ommited details?

[suebee]

There was a comment by someone who said she had searched Sonoma County records for a year and found no documentation to support the story. Also there is a disclaimer on the page saying that the stories were not pre-screened and that solely the authors were responsible for the content.

I don't know if I hope the story is true so a falsehood can't be used against us or that it's not true and nobody had to suffer the indignities that were outlined.

[Jess]

I am inclined to believe the story in its accuracy. I doubt the NCLR and other attys involved in the upcoming ( ongoing) case would be tossing their names out there if it wasn't a valid case.

More info from NCLR on Elder Rights. This case has brought these issues into light and with a sense of urgency.

http://www.nclrights.org/site/PageServer?pagename=issue_elderLaw

It also brings closer to heart the real issues of equality for all of our citizens. From Equality Matters... the 1138 reasons equality matters.

http://www.equalitymatters.org/equality_matters/static/full_reasons

[PearlsNLace]

It has a docket number. There are multiple websites discussing the case with different tidbits of information.

[Kobi]

As presented, I have a hard time believing the story contains all the facts. Properly executed paperwork is rarely ignored. ple can not be "forced into nursing homes against their will".

Will be interesting to see the entire story.

[Corkey]

Um, sorry people can be forced into nursing homes, and are every day. People who have dementia, Alzheimer's and other mental and physical disorders. The person we bought our home from was forced to put her mother in a home, her mother was forced by the courts to go. Yes, it happens every single day.
The story may not have all the facts, it doesn't have to, it is a story. There is however a court date, an attorney, and an organization that do exist.

[Kobi]

Corky,

I have worked in health care for 30 years. People can not be "involuntarily committed" to a nursing home. Involuntary committment is a legal, mental health thing not a medical thing.

People can be coerced, prodded, persuaded etc. and this is usually because it is for their own well being i.e. not safe for them to be at home or alone or having an inadequate caretaker.

People who are unable to make these decisions for themselves require quardians and/or conservators, both court appointed and court accountable proceedings.

There is something big missing from this story or it deliberately used inflammatory language to piss people off.

Have done this work forever. You can NOT commit someone to a nursing home.

[iamkeri1]

"Tenants in common" is not a good choice to protect a couples rights. A home, car or other property owned as tenants in common gives each partner rights to only half of said property. Children or even distant relatives of the deceased or incapacitated partner could force the property into probate. The remainng partner would most likely be forced to sell the property and give half to the suing family member. Any jointly owned property should be titled as "Joint tenants", with the added phrase "with full rights to survivor", which adds further clarity to the intention of the owners.

"Tenants in common" should only be used if either partner has children or other relatives that they wish to have to leave their assets to rather than their partner.

This article makes me so sad, But I add my plea that you not use it as an excuse to avoid obtaining necessary documents to protect your rights. No system is perfect. This is an awful situation, but it could have happened just as easily to a cohabiting elderly straight couple. In Florida, during the last election, when the charming voters of my state decided to eliminate the legal status of "domestic partner", the biggest group lobbying to keep it from being passed was an elder rights group which used only straight couples as spokespeople. The religious right was so anxious to eliminate any possibility that gay folks could establish a legal relationship of any kind, that they through cohabiting straight people under the truck as well.
Sad Smooches,
Keri


I read the articles this morning and wondered what "The rest of the story" was.

If someone has medical power of attorney and presents it, it must be honored, regardless of the relationship. I mean, you could have anyone have your power of attorneys, even if they're not blood/legal family.

Why was the other partner put into a nursing home? Why were the belongings sold? Was the other partner suffering from dementia or otherwise infirm at the time? Was the paperwork submitted at the time, or discovered later after all this stuff had happened, which doesn't excuse it, but might explain it better.

There are a lot of holes in this story that need to be filled in as far as timelines before I am satisfied that this was an actual deliberate act of homophobia and not just some kind of paperwork snafu with disastrous results.

I don't like being used by either side of the media, and frankly, this feels a bit skewed to me.

It did however remind me of the 1st If Walls Could Talk (someone else go find the video, I'm too lazy) where the female couple had been together for 30 years and when one of them died, the other lost everything even though she had paid the mortgage too. I remember crying hard and long as I watched that.

AND ALSO! Don't use this story as a reason NOT to get protected in your partnership in anyway you can because you think "it doesn't matter". It does.

Tenants in common if you own a house
Legal AND Medical POA's
Wills
Right of Remains
Living Wills - Who gets to pull the plug

There's some other stuff, someone else can fill in. It seems like I have about 7 different documents with my partner outlining what will happen and who's in charge.

[Corkey]

Corky,

I have worked in health care for 30 years. People can not be "involuntarily committed" to a nursing home. Involuntary committment is a legal, mental health thing not a medical thing.

People can be coerced, prodded, persuaded etc. and this is usually because it is for their own well being i.e. not safe for them to be at home or alone or having an inadequate caretaker.

People who are unable to make these decisions for themselves require quardians and/or conservators, both court appointed and court accountable proceedings.

There is something big missing from this story or it deliberately used inflammatory language to piss people off.

Have done this work forever. You can NOT commit someone to a nursing home.

First off, the name is Corkey, and secondly in my own family my cousins mother in-law was FORCED into a nursing home, she didn't want to go, she fought not to go, but was FORCED by the courts to go. You weren't there, you have no clue how horrible it is to see this happen to a loved one.

[cinderella]

Signed and shared.

A friend shared this link with me, and it helped with my frustrated feeling that there was nothing I could do about this situation.

Well, actually, there is a little something here we can do. This is what I have done, and you can do it to:

http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/6535/t/9634/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=2441


Just thought Id share.

[SuperFemme]

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=prob&group=00001-01000&file=260-267

260. Unless the provision or context otherwise requires, the
definitions in this chapter govern the construction of this part.



262. "Beneficiary" means the person entitled, but for the person's
disclaimer, to take an interest.



263. (a) "Creator of the interest" means a person who establishes,
declares, creates, or otherwise brings into existence an interest.
(b) "Creator of the interest" includes, but is not limited to, the
following:
(1) With respect to an interest created by intestate succession,
the person dying intestate.
(2) With respect to an interest created under a will, the
testator.
(3) With respect to an interest created under a trust, the
settlor.
(4) With respect to an interest created by succession to a
disclaimed interest, the disclaimant of the disclaimed interest.
(5) With respect to an interest created by virtue of an election
to take against a will, the testator.
(6) With respect to an interest created by creation of a power of
appointment, the donor.
(7) With respect to an interest created by exercise or nonexercise
of a power of appointment, the donee.
(8) With respect to an interest created by an inter vivos gift,
the donor.
(9) With respect to an interest created by surviving the death of
a depositor of a Totten trust account or P.O.D. account, the deceased
depositor.
(10) With respect to an interest created under an insurance or
annuity contract, the owner, the insured, or the annuitant.
(11) With respect to an interest created by surviving the death of
another joint tenant, the deceased joint tenant.
(12) With respect to an interest created under an employee benefit
plan, the employee or other owner of an interest in the plan.
(13) With respect to an interest created under an individual
retirement account, annuity, or bond, the owner.




264. "Disclaimant" means a beneficiary who executes a disclaimer on
his or her own behalf or a person who executes a disclaimer on
behalf of a beneficiary.


265. "Disclaimer" means any writing which declines, refuses,
renounces, or disclaims any interest that would otherwise be taken by
a beneficiary.


266. "Employee benefit plan" includes, but is not limited to, any
pension, retirement, death benefit, stock bonus, or profit-sharing
plan, system, or trust.


267. (a) "Interest" includes the whole of any property, real or
personal, legal or equitable, or any fractional part, share, or
particular portion or specific assets thereof, or any estate in any
such property, or any power to appoint, consume, apply, or expend
property, or any other right, power, privilege, or immunity relating
to property.
(b) "Interest" includes, but is not limited to, an interest
created in any of the following manners:
(1) By intestate succession.
(2) Under a will.
(3) Under a trust.
(4) By succession to a disclaimed interest.
(5) By virtue of an election to take against a will.
(6) By creation of a power of appointment.
(7) By exercise or nonexercise of a power of appointment.
(8) By an inter vivos gift, whether outright or in trust.
(9) By surviving the death of a depositor of a Totten trust
account or P.O.D. account.
(10) Under an insurance or annuity contract.
(11) By surviving the death of another joint tenant.
(12) Under an employee benefit plan.
(13) Under an individual retirement account, annuity, or bond.
(14) Any other interest created by any testamentary or inter vivos
instrument or by operation of law.

[Miss Scarlett]

Kobi, I have to disagree with you. I've been in law for nearly as long as you have been in medicine. People most certainly can be involuntarily committed into medical facilities including nursing homes. In NC a court action is filed either for Adult Protective Services or Incompetency. We do numerous cases like this each month - my boss represents our county's DSS in APS, CPS and CSE cases. These cases can be filed and adjudicated in a matter of weeks. Anyone can file one of these cases, not just DSS.

Here is the link to the Complaint filed by Clay Greene's attorneys - please take the time to read this. I think it will give everyone a better understanding of what happened and fill in the gaps in the news story I posted in my OP.

http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocServer/Greene_v_Sonoma_County.pdf?docID=7461

Just because you have all the right documents doesn't mean some narrowminded and/or ignorant person/institution will honor them.

Remember the lesbian couple from Washington who were in Florida for the Rosie Cruise?

http://www.lambdalegal.org/in-court/cases/langbehn-v-jackson-memorial.html

Here is the link to the Amended Complaint filed in that matter:

http://data.lambdalegal.org/in-court/downloads/langbehn_fl_20080902_complaint-amended.pdf

Sadly the Federal Court granted the Defendant's Motion and dismissed the action.

We must continue to fight for our equality!

[christie]

Kobi, I have to disagree with you. I've been in law for nearly as long as you have been in medicine. People most certainly can be involuntarily committed into medical facilities including nursing homes. In NC a court action is filed either for Adult Protective Services or Incompetency. We do numerous cases like this each month - my boss represents our county's DSS in APS, CPS and CSE cases. These cases can be filed and adjudicated in a matter of weeks. Anyone can file one of these cases, not just DSS.

Here is the link to the Complaint filed by Clay Greene's attorneys - please take the time to read this. I think it will give everyone a better understanding of what happened and fill in the gaps in the news story I posted in my OP.

http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocServer/Greene_v_Sonoma_County.pdf?docID=7461

Just because you have all the right documents doesn't mean some narrowminded and/or ignorant person/institution will honor them.

Remember the lesbian couple from Washington who were in Florida for the Rosie Cruise?

http://www.lambdalegal.org/in-court/cases/langbehn-v-jackson-memorial.html

Here is the link to the Amended Complaint filed in that matter:

http://data.lambdalegal.org/in-court/downloads/langbehn_fl_20080902_complaint-amended.pdf

Sadly the Federal Court granted the Defendant's Motion and dismissed the action.

We must continue to fight for our equality!


Wow. If you go to page 66 of the first link, the letter to the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors detailing this ordeal is just heartbreaking. I do think that this is a valid story.

I think that part of our wanting to believe that it isnt a full disclosure of the facts is more about us wanting to think that it couldnt happen to us.

Unfortunately, IMO, it can.

[Miss Scarlett]

So none of the paperwork we have will work I guess. Wills, powers of attourney, hippa forms, all for nothing.

This is so very sad and telling.

If California acts like this, then those of us in way more conservative states are screwed for sure.

Don't believe that your paperwork is worthless. For every case like this there are hundreds/thousands of couples nationwide who have no problems at all.

I am not surprised to see this happen in California. After all, look what happened with Prop 8.

I don't know what is going on out there...complacency by the LGBTQ Community? Apathy? Laziness? Whatever it is, the LGBTQ Community in the US needs to set aside their differences, band together and stand up like they did back in the 70s.

This attitude isn't only in California. We have it here in NC too. But the fact that it seems to be surfacing out west is scary. I cannot speak for any other area but here in NC it seems that the younger LGBTQ generation is ignorant of their history and takes what few rights we have for the moment for granted.

We must educate the generations following us.

[SuperFemme]

Don't believe that your paperwork is worthless. For every case like this there are hundreds/thousands of couples nationwide who have no problems at all.

I am not surprised to see this happen in California. After all, look what happened with Prop 8.

I don't know what is going on out there...complacency by the LGBTQ Community? Apathy? Laziness? Whatever it is, the LGBTQ Community in the US needs to set aside their differences, band together and stand up like they did back in the 70s.

This attitude isn't only in California. We have it here in NC too. But the fact that it seems to be surfacing out west is scary. I cannot speak for any other area but here in NC it seems that the younger LGBTQ generation is ignorant of their history and takes what few rights we have for the moment for granted.

We must educate the generations following us.

This is exactly the kind of thing I am frightened of, and I have more paper work than the SCOTUS would need. Legally Married? Check. Living Trust? Check. Advanced Directive? Check. Durable Power of Attorney? Check.

Do NOT let this story keep you from making informed decisions or completing the correct legal paperwork. Let it be a lesson. Give copies of your wishes to your loudest, most vocal loved ones.

The people that will cut a bitch for you if you can't do it yourself.

But do NOT shrug your shoulders and decide WTF why should I bother?

[Strappie]

This story.. actually made me cry. How shameful. I sent this off to my family.

I told them I hope that this will not happen to me or anyone else.

This has to end!

[Miss Scarlett]

This is exactly the kind of thing I am frightened of, and I have more paper work than the SCOTUS would need. Legally Married? Check. Living Trust? Check. Advanced Directive? Check. Durable Power of Attorney? Check.

Do NOT let this story keep you from making informed decisions or completing the correct legal paperwork. Let it be a lesson. Give copies of your wishes to your loudest, most vocal loved ones.

The people that will cut a bitch for you if you can't do it yourself.

But do NOT shrug your shoulders and decide WTF why should I bother?

This story.. actually made me cry. How shameful. I sent this off to my family.

I told them I hope that this will not happen to me or anyone else.

This has to end!

By all means make certain that you let as many people as possible know your wishes. And know the wishes of your loved ones.

This is not just an LGBTQ issue. What happened to this couple can happen to straight couples too. Click on the link - the story has an audio clip from Barbara Coombs Lee that is worth listening too.

From NPR:

Obama Pushes Hospitals To Honor Patients' Choices

By Scott Hensley
April 16, 2010

By ordering hospitals that take Medicare or Medicaid money to allow patients to be visited and helped by whomever they want, President Obama was taking a shot at those that have resisted the wishes often recorded in advance directives.

The presidential memo specifically notes the challenges for gay and lesbian people whose partners have sometimes been unable to act as legal surrogates.

Many hospitals already have broadened the categories of people permitted to visit or aid a hospitalized person. And some states, including North Carolina, have patient bills of rights that give the hospitalized person the power to say who's OK to visit.

But there's also been some backsliding on advance directives, too. Barbara Coombs Lee, president of Compassion & Choices, a patient advocacy group, talked with NPR's Julie Rovner about problems in some states, such as Idaho, where conscience provisions allow health workers who disagree with a patients' treatment choices to ignore them. (Emphasis mine)

Similarly, late last year the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops made the use of feeding tubes for patients nearing the end of their lives more likely, even when people had specified beforehand that they didn't want them.
(Emphasis mine again)

Dr. Jason Schneider, former president of the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association, told NPR's Ari Shapiro that unless a hospital has a formal policy allowing same-sex visitations, gay couples can run into trouble. Same goes when it comes to who can be a surrogate decision maker for an incapacitated person.

The president's order will take time to implement in federal regulations. But advocates hailed the decision. Some say the New York Times' reporting on the case of a same-sex couple in Florida helped push things along. Despite having power of attorney, a woman was unable to see her partner before she died of an aneurysm in 2007.

Similarly, late last year the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops made the use of feeding tubes for patients nearing the end of their lives more likely, even when people had specified beforehand that they didn't want them.

Dr. Jason Schneider, former president of the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association, told NPR's Ari Shapiro that unless a hospital has a formal policy allowing same-sex visitations, gay couples can run into trouble. Same goes when it comes to who can be a surrogate decision maker for an incapacitated person.

The president's order will take time to implement in federal regulations. But advocates hailed the decision. Some say the New York Times' reporting on the case of a same-sex couple in Florida helped push things along. Despite having power of attorney, a woman was unable to see her partner before she died of an aneurysm in 2007.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/04/by_scott_hensley_by_ordering.html

[SassyLeo]

A couple of years ago, my father was admitted to the ER in the BAY AREA of CA. Every time a new person would enter his hospital room, his partner would get the "20 questions" and my dad, all doped up on pain meds would have to try to explain to them whom he was while his partner would produce the legal documents.

His partner took him there. He helped admit him. He is hanging out the entire time... giving the admitting desk all my father's personal/legal information, his ID, insurance card, etc. I have to think... who the fuck else would he be?

[Jess]

This is exactly the kind of thing I am frightened of, and I have more paper work than the SCOTUS would need. Legally Married? Check. Living Trust? Check. Advanced Directive? Check. Durable Power of Attorney? Check.

Do NOT let this story keep you from making informed decisions or completing the correct legal paperwork. Let it be a lesson. Give copies of your wishes to your loudest, most vocal loved ones.

The people that will cut a bitch for you if you can't do it yourself.

But do NOT shrug your shoulders and decide WTF why should I bother?



Lord, I pity the fool who ever tries to keep the girl out of my room. I also pity the poor bail bondsman she calls later! Busy busy, I tell ya!

[apretty]

Corky,

I have worked in health care for 30 years. People can not be "involuntarily committed" to a nursing home. Involuntary committment is a legal, mental health thing not a medical thing.

People can be coerced, prodded, persuaded etc. and this is usually because it is for their own well being i.e. not safe for them to be at home or alone or having an inadequate caretaker.

People who are unable to make these decisions for themselves require quardians and/or conservators, both court appointed and court accountable proceedings.

There is something big missing from this story or it deliberately used inflammatory language to piss people off.

Have done this work forever. You can NOT commit someone to a nursing home.

it's not a novel, there's bound to be some omitted facts. however, i'm wondering if you think that the omitted facts will lead to an alternate, 'happy ending', one not detailed here? do you think that a gay man doesn't die and his partner doesn't end up losing everything? (i don't)

[Apocalipstic]

Wow. If you go to page 66 of the first link, the letter to the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors detailing this ordeal is just heartbreaking. I do think that this is a valid story.

I think that part of our wanting to believe that it isnt a full disclosure of the facts is more about us wanting to think that it couldnt happen to us.

Unfortunately, IMO, it can.

Yeah, I guess I have this very misguided idea of Californians being wayyy more liberal and cool about things than anyone in TN. But in Nashville I have never had a problem. I give my doctors and hospitals the forms, but they have always indicated Cynthia woudl be able to see me regardless?

Now in a rural TN area? Who knows....though, there seem to be a lot of LBGTQ people in the medical profession.

Either way, its terribly sad.

[patrick_sdmn]

The "main stream" press is reporting on it now. The local paper here in Sonoma County (Press Democrat) is working on a story, and here's a piece from the NY Times: http://bayarea.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/20/suit-charges-elderly-gay-couple-was-forced-apart/

Kate Kendell updated her blog at the Bilerico Project: http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocServer/Greene_v_Sonoma_County.pdf?docID=7461

[patrick_sdmn]

Corky,

I have worked in health care for 30 years. People can not be "involuntarily committed" to a nursing home. Involuntary committment is a legal, mental health thing not a medical thing..

Hi Kobi -

You can read the complaint that was filed (with all the names, dates, and details) on NCLR's site here: http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocServer/Greene_v_Sonoma_County.pdf?docID=7461

[patrick_sdmn]

I read the articles this morning and wondered what "The rest of the story" was.

Check the NCLR site for the legal complaint that was filed:

http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocServer/Greene_v_Sonoma_County.pdf?docID=7461

[patrick_sdmn]

There was a comment by someone who said she had searched Sonoma County records for a year and found no documentation to support the story.

Well she didn't look very hard.

http://www.sonoma-county.org/board/meetings/meeting_20091103/agenda_20091103.htm

[patrick_sdmn]

As presented, I have a hard time believing the story contains all the facts. Properly executed paperwork is rarely ignored. ple can not be "forced into nursing homes against their will".

Will be interesting to see the entire story.

Read the legal complaint and weep - it's heartbreaking.

http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocServer/Greene_v_Sonoma_County.pdf?docID=7461

[Waldo]

There is more to the story - of course there is because this is just the beginning.

The complaint is a legal allegation from the plaintiff against a series of defendants. No arguments have been made. No exhibits have been presented.

After reading the complaint quickly I have a better understanding of, seemingly, why things may have happened the way they did. BUT I don't KNOW why they did, nor will I ever know.

There are allegations of abuse from the defendants against the plaintiff in regard to the decedent. What if they were true? Does that change anything for your opinion of what happened?

If the plaintiff was abusing his partner of 20 years and the medical staff acted to protect the decedent from continued abuse and sold off property and belongings to pay for the care required... does that make it ok?

Again - I don't know what happened and I have not read every word, I'm just exercising my critical thinking skills in an effort to understand how and why this happened.

patrick_sdmn - you seem to be very passionate about this. Are you involved some how? Your profile says you're in Sonoma County and you just joined today and these five posts are the extent of your activity on the site. Would love to know more if you're willing to share.

[Jess]

Highlighted Waldo's comments in red that I wanted to address. My responses are in blue. I suck at this kind of stuff, so sorry if it is confusing.





[QUOTE=Waldo;88850]There is more to the story - of course there is because this is just the beginning.

The complaint is a legal allegation from the plaintiff against a series of defendants. No arguments have been made. No exhibits have been presented.

Perhaps because it hasn't had its day in court. Evidence is usually not presented in the media before it has been presented in court.

After reading the complaint quickly I have a better understanding of, seemingly, why things may have happened the way they did. BUT I don't KNOW why they did, nor will I ever know.

There are allegations of abuse from the defendants against the plaintiff in regard to the decedent. What if they were true? Does that change anything for your opinion of what happened?

I have not seen statements that state this. Could you show me where those allegations were made against the plaintiff?

If the plaintiff was abusing his partner of 20 years and the medical staff acted to protect the decedent from continued abuse and sold off property and belongings to pay for the care required... does that make it ok?

Again.. I have read through all of this a few times over and have yet to find where Mr Greene was accused of abusing the decedant.


Again - I don't know what happened and I have not read every word, I'm just exercising my critical thinking skills in an effort to understand how and why this happened.

My thoughts are that this was an elderly couple.. One 78 and one 88. One fell down , broke a hip as it were and someone ( probably with the paramedics) made a complaint. It is usually as simple as that when it comes down to elderly couples ( homo or hetero-sexual) Unfortunately, it seems any directive to execution of estate was neglected and further set aside by the county administrators. If this happened to our grandparents.. we would be all over this shit. A lot of gay couples have no one other than themselves, particularly at this advanced age. They have no immediate family of advocates.

And regarding the validity of accusations of abuse... If there were documented records of abuse over a 20 year period that no one stepped in on, ( which I doubt) then I would be even more enraged at the system that so clearly failed these men.

[Waldo]

Perhaps because it hasn't had its day in court. Evidence is usually not presented in the media before it has been presented in court.

JESS - That is exactly my point. No evidence has been brought forth yet. Let's see. Let's look at the evidence instead of assuming we know what happened.


There are allegations of abuse from the defendants against the plaintiff in regard to the decedent. What if they were true? Does that change anything for your opinion of what happened?

I have not seen statements that state this. Could you show me where those allegations were made against the plaintiff?


In section 23 of the complaint the following is stated:

"Defendants COUNTY, LIEDHOLM, STAGG-HOURIGAN, BREWSTER and others and each of them, further made representations and false and misleading statements in support of said Petition, including but not limited to accusing Plaintiff GREENE of committing physical abuse and financial abuse of Decedent, being a danger to Decedent"


Again.. I have read through all of this a few times over and have yet to find where Mr Greene was accused of abusing the decedant.

Had you read the complaint or only the coverage of the complaint? I think it's kind of odd that none of the media has mentioned that little tidbit and I am positive that none of the agencies involved from the defendant's side are making a big deal out of it. Of course it's kind of a lot to expect of the media to actually dig into a case like this when they can't even get details of world events right.


And regarding the validity of accusations of abuse... If there were documented records of abuse over a 20 year period that no one stepped in on, ( which I doubt) then I would be even more enraged at the system that so clearly failed these men.

Lots of cases of domestic abuse go unreported. I can't speak to whether there were or weren't ANY cases of abuse here. I'm reading the complaint and what the plaintiff's lawyer is saying his client was accused of.

And in summary? We can't know. We weren't there. How about we wait for the evidence to be presented before we damn anyone.

[Toughy]

abuse...............

how about homophobic assholes will make up shit when they want to or need to because they are homophobic assholes...and will do anything to see we lead miserable lives until they can hasten our death so we can burn in hell and fuck over anyone who dares love or partner with us after they kill us off...........

Sonoma County (and most of CA and the entire country) is chock FULL of homophobes and I don't doubt for a minute they would fuck over any gay couple they could..........to the point of taking everything from the individual and his/her surviving partner without legal due process and on the deathbed of one of the couple

[Jess]

Thanks Waldo. Me in blue.



JESS - That is exactly my point. No evidence has been brought forth yet. Let's see. Let's look at the evidence instead of assuming we know what happened.



In section 23 of the complaint the following is stated:

"Defendants COUNTY, LIEDHOLM, STAGG-HOURIGAN, BREWSTER and others and each of them, further made representations and false and misleading statements in support of said Petition, including but not limited to accusing Plaintiff GREENE of committing physical abuse and financial abuse of Decedent, being a danger to Decedent"

Doesn't this go to say that the statements were "false and/ or misleading" ? I suppose that when it does go to court, the defendants will be forced to bring evidence of this alleged abuse.



Had you read the complaint or only the coverage of the complaint? I think it's kind of odd that none of the media has mentioned that little tidbit and I am positive that none of the agencies involved from the defendant's side are making a big deal out of it. Of course it's kind of a lot to expect of the media to actually dig into a case like this when they can't even get details of world events right.

I had not read the entire complaint. However in reading the section you pulled above, it doesn't speak to me of anything except slander on the part of the defendants. I doubt any more mainstream media would have jumped on this anymore than they would any other old couple who the county came in and took their home and/or put them in a nursing facility. We only hear of these things in the media when someone ( family or advocate) speaks up to the injustice involved. It's kind of like when we see shows about hoarders and the unhealthy/ unsafe conditions they live in and some agency intervenes.

Not knowing the whole situation is kind of a tricky place to jump to someone's defense. It surprises me that with the amount of attention this has received, the county or any of the defendants have not made some statement. Usually when a govt. body is accused of something like this( especially if they are in the right) a statement is issued.


Lots of cases of domestic abuse go unreported. I can't speak to whether there were or weren't ANY cases of abuse here. I'm reading the complaint and what the plaintiff's lawyer is saying his client was accused of.

And in summary? We can't know. We weren't there. How about we wait for the evidence to be presented before we damn anyone.

I'm cool with not damning anyone until more facts come to light. I am also very cool with sending as many petitions to as many politicians from President to local animal control that we need Marriage Equality. These are things going on to and within our community that brings up the old warrior in me and does encourage me to take action whenever I can. My personal responsibility starts in having clear legal documentation to protect my WIFE and stepson in the case of my death or long term care. My global responsibility comes in telling the elected officials in my county/ state/ country that this shit is getting real old and is totally unacceptable.

I imagine a great many conversations are happening about this case. If the allegations prove false and the plaintiffs truly did overstep the human rights of this couple, I am sure the more mainstream media will cover that story, because it will be more visible as the outrage of gay folks swells.

[Waldo]

Jess - of course it says the allegations against the Plaintiff are false. This complaint was filed on behalf of the Plaintiff GREENE. GREENE is suing the defendants. The defendants alleged that GREENE abused SCULL. It wouldn't be in his best interest to say anything other than "THAT'S FALSE".

The media, whether mainstream or not, has jumped on this to some extent. But they only do a cursory glance at the details mentioned by the parties bringing it to their attention. In this case? That appears to be the Plaintiff's representation.



Thanks Waldo. Me in blue.

I'm cool with not damning anyone until more facts come to light. I am also very cool with sending as many petitions to as many politicians from President to local animal control that we need Marriage Equality. These are things going on to and within our community that brings up the old warrior in me and does encourage me to take action whenever I can. My personal responsibility starts in having clear legal documentation to protect my WIFE and stepson in the case of my death or long term care. My global responsibility comes in telling the elected officials in my county/ state/ country that this shit is getting real old and is totally unacceptable.

I imagine a great many conversations are happening about this case. If the allegations prove false and the plaintiffs truly did overstep the human rights of this couple, I am sure the more mainstream media will cover that story, because it will be more visible as the outrage of gay folks swells.

[Jet]

Motherfuckers. And this is 2010?

Thanks for the post.

[SuperFemme]

Settlement reached in case of gay couple kept apart during man’s last days

By Zachary Green
July 23rd, 2010

A California man whose claims of elder abuse and discrimination have galvanized gay rights advocates across the country agreed to settle his lawsuit against Sonoma County Thursday.

In April 2008 Clay Greene, 77, was separated from Harold Scull, 88, his partner of more than 20 years, after county officials deemed that injuries Scull suffered were the result of domestic violence. The county district attorney later discredited that claim, but county employees kept the two men in separate facilities. Scull died three months later. The county then auctioned off all of the couple’s belongings to pay for Scull’s hospital fees.
Greene sued the county for an undisclosed amount with the assistance of the National Center for Lesbian Rights in San Francisco.
As part of the settlement reached Thursday, Sonoma County agreed to pay $300,000 for Greene’s legal fees, $275,000 to Greene himself, and $25,000 to the estate of Harold Scull for any property that may have been auctioned off under value.

The county also said that, as a result of the circumstances surrounding the case, it had altered some of its policies for property disposition and case management in such cases. Specifically,it will now appraise all of a conservatee’s assets before selling or auctioning them off. Scull and Greene’s assets were auctioned off without being appraised.

“These kind of civil violations need to be carefully watched,” Greene’s lawyer, Anne Dennis, said Friday. “Hopefully, the changes made will have positive effects on all seniors in the county, not just gay or lesbian seniors.”

The settlement came a few days before the trial was set to begin, on Tuesday, July 27. The county said the settlement was an effort to avoid the legal fees of a trial, which might have exceeded $1 million. In return, Greene’s legal team dropped all charges of discrimination against Sonoma County.

“From the beginning … we’ve been trying to figure out – ‘How can we resolve this?’ But the other side wasn’t realistic,” said Greg Spaulding, a lawyer for Sonoma County. He said the county was pleased with the resolution and noted that the settlement in no way validated the claim that the case workers discriminated against the men’s sexual orientation.
Greene is also happy with the result, according to Dennis. He now lives in the same residential facility where his partner spent his last days.
“He feels good, he’s put on a little weight … He’s going to have a nice life,” Dennis said.

Dennis maintains that the details in the complaint — specifically the county workers’ discrimination against Greene — are true. But rather than put Greene through a lengthy trial and a possibly lengthier appeals process, she said she preferred to make sure that he received, “a nice quiet retirement.”

“[Clay] is almost 80 years old,” she said. “I want him to be able to enjoy his life.”

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/culture/settlement-reached-in-case-of-gay-couple-kept-apart-during-mans-last-days/2464/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=fanpage&utm_campaign=pbs

[Miss Scarlett]

Thanks for that post SuperFemme. I still think the individuals who are responsible for this heinous act should lose all of their possessions in the same manner. You know, auction off their stuff to raise all or part of the settlement money.

Here's the article that is running in our local LGBT paper here - hey it takes a while for news to trickle over here to the East Coast...

GAY ELDER GETS $650K FOR FORCED SEPARATION FROM PARTNER
SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. — Clay Greene and the estate of Harold Scull, Greene’s deceased partner of 20 years, reached a $650,000 settlement July 22 resolving their lawsuit against the County of Sonoma and other defendants for the damages the couple suffered due to municipal employees’ discriminatory and unlawful conduct.

Greene and Scull lived together for 20 years and had executed both mutual powers of attorney for medical and financial decisions and wills naming each other as beneficiaries. In April 2008, County employees in the Public Guardians Office separated the couple after Scull fell outside their shared home. In the next three months, County officials ignored the couple’s legal documentation, unlawfully auctioned their possessions, terminated their lease and forced Greene into an assisted living facility against his will.

The County did not consult Greene in Scull’s medical care and prevented the two from seeing one another. In August 2008, before the partners could be reunited, Scull passed away after completing a photo album of the couple’s life for Greene.

In August 2009, Greene and the representative of Scull’s estate, the couple’s longtime friend Jannette Biggerstaff, filed a lawsuit alleging elder abuse, elder financial abuse, breach of fiduciary duty, intentional and negligent infliction of emotional distress, false imprisonment and other claims.

Biggerstaff stated, “There is no possible justification for what happened to my friends Harold and Clay, and I still feel outraged and heartbroken that they suffered such a terrible tragedy, which was made worse by the County spreading such terrible lies about Clay. But I am pleased that their rights have been vindicated, and I’m hopeful that their story will help to prevent this from happening to other vulnerable people.”

“What Clay and Harold lost can never be replaced, but this settlement brings a measure of justice to their story,” said Amy Todd-Gher, Senior Staff Attorney for the National Center for Lesbian Rights and one of Greene’s representatives. “This victory sends an unmistakable message that all elders must be treated with respect and dignity, regardless of their sexual orientation, and that those who mistreat elders must be held accountable.”

In addition to agreeing to pay to settle the lawsuit, the County has changed or modified a number of important policies in its Public Guardian’s Office, including requiring County employees to follow protocols before seizing private property, preventing County employees from relocating elders or others against their will and prohibiting County employees from backdating information in their guardianship database. (Emphasis mine -Very interesting...)

“This settlement will allow Mr. Greene to finally have the quiet retirement he deserves,” said Anne N. Dennis, another of Greene’s attorneys. “Although nothing can undo the harm to these gentlemen, we believe the changes made because of the lawsuit will improve services to elders and other individuals who need the assistance of the Sonoma County Public Guardian’s Office.”

http://goqnotes.com/7795/gay-elder-gets-650k-for-forced-separation-from-partner/

[MysticOceansFL]

It just goes to show we need to keep staying together for our rights and don't veer off from what our set goals are yes things like this will happen but I am sure abama is on the right path for us all. Everything takes time and its a slow process but in these times of crisis we need to pull together and stay focused it will happen one day for us it might not be as soon as we'd like it to be but it will!!!

[SuperFemme]

it IS rather amazing that making employee's follow proper protocol is a newly implemented thing.

seriously?

[Nat]

"In August 2008, before the partners could be reunited, Scull passed away after completing a photo album of the couple’s life for Greene."

This sentence is so sad. :(