The Westboro Baptist Church - Hate Group or?

[Medusa]

The signs say "God Hates Fags" or "Adam and Eve - Not Adam and Steve!" and now they have turned their attention on Constance McMillen, the Etiwamba High School Senior who wanted to attend Prom with her girlfriend and was subsequently blackballed by parents and other students, being sent to a fake prom.

The Westboro Baptist Church is now planning to picket at Constance's High School Graduation.

I am sitting here wondering if other people see the Westboro Church as a Hate Group, akin to the KKK?

[Linus]

Yes, hate group. Southern Proverty Law Center (SPLC) has listed them under the "general hate" category (http://www.splcenter.org/node/105/activegroups -- see Kansas at the bottom)

[Rufusboi]

The signs say "God Hates Fags" or "Adam and Eve - Not Adam and Steve!" and now they have turned their attention on Constance McMillen, the Etiwamba High School Senior who wanted to attend Prom with her girlfriend and was subsequently blackballed by parents and other students, being sent to a fake prom.

The Westboro Baptist Church is now planning to picket at Constance's High School Graduation.

I am sitting here wondering if other people see the Westboro Church as a Hate Group, akin to the KKK?

They have their own twisted logic. They are a joke. Even your moderate homophobes won't touch Westboro with a 10ft pole. Arguing with them does no good. THey love publicity. They know what envelope to push and they know what can get them into legal trouble and what can't. Best thing is to ignore them. THey want attention, they want argument, and they want the media at their pickets. Collectively ignoring them takes away any power they think they might wield. Are they akin to the KKK. Yes, they are in a way. They focus their collective hatred on one group. But I don't see them as physically dangerous. Nor do they have any power or any influence. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like there is a collective eye roll when Phelps and his family show up. Most towns don't want them around. But you know....freedom of speech and freedom to peaceably assemble and all......I'm more worried about the Arizona "show me your papers" law than Phelps.


Rufus

[Apocalipstic]

I have no idea what to think about people so filled with hate. I have heard it is all one family?

Seriously, they seem to go way farther than other Hate groups to see publicity, which makes me think that you all are right and it is all about the publicity and nothing else.

UGH.

[Medusa]

I I have heard it is all one family?


UGH.


This is the part where I censor myself from making some comment about them being "inbred". :nailbitin:

[Apocalipstic]

This is the part where I censor myself from making some comment about them being "inbred". :nailbitin:


Yeah, sorry, I did hear that though?

[betenoire]

I don't know that I see them as being as dangerous as some other hate groups, though. Hurtful and grody, yes....but dangerous? I don't know. They don't go around under a cloak of secrecy like some groups do, and to my knowledge they've not (yet) been physically violent or broken the law outright.

[Medusa]

Yeah, sorry, I did hear that though?

Oh I did too! And something about how the church isnt as big as it looks and that they put a lot of energy into their website and publicity-drawing ventures.

It's just...EWW.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I saw them in action at the funeral of a soldier. It was absolutely horrible what they said and did. The media, police officiers, even the members of the Church where the funeral service was being held came outside to protect the privacy of the family of the deceased soldier. He was just 18 yo. And his siblings were youngsters, as were his parents and grandparents (young not youngsters). All I can say is Thank God he chose to be buried at Arlington National Cemetary. That drive lost most of the WBC group.

The WBC is nothing but pure hate. I am just surprised that nobody has assinated Rev. Fred Phelps yet. And he hatred is going to take generations to fix.

[Apocalipstic]

I saw them in action at the funeral of a soldier. It was absolutely horrible what they said and did. The media, police officiers, even the members of the Church where the funeral service was being held came outside to protect the privacy of the family of the deceased soldier. He was just 18 yo. And his siblings were youngsters, as were his parents. All I can say is Thank God he chose to be buried at Arlington National Cemetary. That drive lost most of the WBC group.

The WBC is nothing but pure hate. I am just surprised that nobody has assinated Rev. Fred Phelps yet. And he hatred is going to take generations to fix.



I think if he were to get killed like that he would become a martyr and it would be worse.

[Jess]

Ya know.. what gets me is where the hell these folks get all the money to travel and show their asses from??? I am surprised some secret squirrel queer IRS agent hasn't gone after them. We are everywhere ya know.. heh

More food for the removal of non-profit status from organized churches. Let their asses pay taxes on what they raise from their little charity plates before they fill up their tanks to go harass good people.

[Apocalipstic]

Ya know.. what gets me is where the hell these folks get all the money to travel and show their asses from??? I am surprised some secret squirrel queer IRS agent hasn't gone after them. We are everywhere ya know.. heh

More food for the removal of non-profit status from organized churches. Let their asses pay taxes on what they raise from their little charity plates before they fill up their tanks to go harass good people.

Yeah, they totally need to pay taxes.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I think his (Fred Phelp's) son is an attorney. I know that when they were in Fed. Court in Balto. City, it was a nightmare. Our tax dollars went to pay for protecting both them and the father who sued Phelp's and his church. I am glad to see he is taking the suit further on.

[UofMfan]

Yes, hate group. Southern Proverty Law Center (SPLC) has listed them under the "general hate" category (http://www.splcenter.org/node/105/activegroups -- see Kansas at the bottom)

I agree, hate group.

I hope the Federal Government, the IRS in particular, take action and remove their Tax Except status pronto!

[Andrew, Jr.]

The one issue I will never understand or even wrap my head around is when WBC claimed that we were to be blamed for 9/11. To me that is like saying Medusa is to be blamed for my hair to be brown. :harley:

[Nat]

S8cN2pB3MCE

yes I think they are a hate group.

[Rufusboi]

The one issue I will never understand or even wrap my head around is when WBC claimed that we were to be blamed for 9/11. To me that is like saying Medusa is to be blamed for my hair to be brown. :harley:


Its that twisted logic at work. According to Phelps and gang, God hates American's tolerance of gays, therefore God is punishing America, therefore 9/11 is God punishing America for tolerating Gays ....I guess America is supposed to lock us up, or declare us illegal or something.

[Apocalipstic]

Its that twisted logic at work. According to Phelps and gang, God hates American's tolerance of gays, therefore God is punishing America, therefore 9/11 is God punishing America for tolerating Gays ....I guess America is supposed to lock us up, or declare us illegal or something.


It freaks me out that so many people actually do think we don't even deserve to be alive.

[Lynn]

It freaks me out that so many people actually do think we don't even deserve to be alive.

I agree. It freaks me out to consider all the anti-gay laws around the world which result in murder and torture for people who just want to be who they are. This group feels dangerous because they are so overt in their hatred, although I think it's true that the most dangerous people are the ones planning in secret. But, then again, how many more people think it's OK to express this hate openly when this group has made it so acceptable and proven that their freedom of speech will be upheld over the wellbeing and safety of others?

[Apocalipstic]

I agree. It freaks me out to consider all the anti-gay laws around the world which result in murder and torture for people who just want to be who they are. This group feels dangerous because they are so overt in their hatred, although I think it's true that the most dangerous people are the ones planning in secret. But, then again, how many more people think it's OK to express this hate openly when this group has made it so acceptable and proven that their freedom of speech will be upheld over the wellbeing and safety of others?

I guess until facebook, I kept myself pretty insulated from this sort of thing, now, it is all over the place and I am giving it more thought. It really is scary.

I hope people in general see how hate filled this is, and it backfires.

[Rufusboi]

I agree. It freaks me out to consider all the anti-gay laws around the world which result in murder and torture for people who just want to be who they are. This group feels dangerous because they are so overt in their hatred, although I think it's true that the most dangerous people are the ones planning in secret. But, then again, how many more people think it's OK to express this hate openly when this group has made it so acceptable and proven that their freedom of speech will be upheld over the wellbeing and safety of others?

Even though I dislike what they do and say as long as they are not being physically violent, bombing gay bars etc I see them as harmless. The worse of the worse are the crazies that kill abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Phelps knows what lines to stay behind. And I dislike Phelps as much as anyone, but I'm on the side of free speech on this. The worse thing we can do is limit speech. I think the Arizona law is far far worse than Phelps. I think DOMA laws are far far worse than Phelps. Phelps' message is actually lost on most people who can't follow his weird logic. He's become a public nuisance but outside of that he doesn't warrant much attention. Phelps doesn't threaten physical safety. He hurts emotionally, he makes statements about us and about God and he shows up where he's not wanted, but none of that is illegal. If we make Phelps' pickets and banners illegal then next thing we know gay pride parades are illegal. Think about how many people are offended by Pride parades and by our banners. If we stop Phelps then they stop us.

Rufus

[Apocalipstic]

Even though I dislike what they do and say as long as they are not being physically violent, bombing gay bars etc I see them as harmless. The worse of the worse are the crazies that kill abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Phelps knows what lines to stay behind. And I dislike Phelps as much as anyone, but I'm on the side of free speech on this. The worse thing we can do is limit speech. I think the Arizona law is far far worse than Phelps. I think DOMA laws are far far worse than Phelps. Phelps' message is actually lost on most people who can't follow his weird logic. He's become a public nuisance but I outside of that he doesn't warrant much attention. Phelps doesn't threaten physical safety. He hurts emotionally, he makes statements about us and about God and he shows up where he's not wanted, but none of that is illegal. If we make Phelps' pickets and banners illegal then next thing we know gay pride parades are illegal.

Rufus

Really great points!

[Bit]

Yes it is a family, yes it is a hate group, yes many of the members are lawyers, yes they are certainly after media attention.

Nate Phelps, the estranged son--ran as fast as he could when he turned eighteen--was recently in Kansas to speak against the group. They didn't picket him.

I guess they don't wish media attention drawn to someone who is believable, and has accused them of improprieties and even child abuse.

[suebee]

Even though I dislike what they do and say as long as they are not being physically violent, bombing gay bars etc I see them as harmless. The worse of the worse are the crazies that kill abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Phelps knows what lines to stay behind. And I dislike Phelps as much as anyone, but I'm on the side of free speech on this. The worse thing we can do is limit speech. I think the Arizona law is far far worse than Phelps. I think DOMA laws are far far worse than Phelps. Phelps' message is actually lost on most people who can't follow his weird logic. He's become a public nuisance but outside of that he doesn't warrant much attention. Phelps doesn't threaten physical safety. He hurts emotionally, he makes statements about us and about God and he shows up where he's not wanted, but none of that is illegal. If we make Phelps' pickets and banners illegal then next thing we know gay pride parades are illegal. Think about how many people are offended by Pride parades and by our banners. If we stop Phelps then they stop us.

Rufus

There are always examples of more harmful behavior Rufus. But I doubt that those grieving families who have had to endure the picketing of their loved one's funeral would call their COMPOUNDED emotional pain harmless. And I think of our sisters and brothers who are not yet out, who come across a web site called "God Hates Fags". Then I think of the suicide rate in our community - especially among adolescents. I have a hard time classifying what the Phelps call "free speech" and "God's work" as harmless. Sorry, I can't agree with you on this one.

Glad Canada told them they weren't welcome here.

Sue

[Soon]

Even though I dislike what they do and say as long as they are not being physically violent, bombing gay bars etc I see them as harmless. The worse of the worse are the crazies that kill abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Phelps knows what lines to stay behind. And I dislike Phelps as much as anyone, but I'm on the side of free speech on this. The worse thing we can do is limit speech. I think the Arizona law is far far worse than Phelps. I think DOMA laws are far far worse than Phelps. Phelps' message is actually lost on most people who can't follow his weird logic. He's become a public nuisance but outside of that he doesn't warrant much attention. Phelps doesn't threaten physical safety. He hurts emotionally, he makes statements about us and about God and he shows up where he's not wanted, but none of that is illegal. If we make Phelps' pickets and banners illegal then next thing we know gay pride parades are illegal. Think about how many people are offended by Pride parades and by our banners. If we stop Phelps then they stop us.

Rufus

I'm with Sue on this one.

We don't have tolerance for hate speech here. (Canada)

I don't see the analogy b/w Pride and Phelps, either. Hate Speech laws are in place to stop people from spewing their hatred and possibly inciting violence towards others. Pride Parades would not fall under this category, so I fail to see how Pride would suffer due to the enactment and enforcement of Hate Speech laws.

Phelps is not welcome in our country and was, in fact, arrested here for Hate Speech.

I don't see my country suffering from any loss of freedom due to our hate speech laws.
I think these laws protect others and allows for a more humane and safe place in which to live.

[Cyclopea]

rP6gneH1DRU

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6367744110804746107#

One of my fave quotes from the Hatemongers documentary is when one of his daughters, in addressing the concern that the family/church is a typical authoritarian cult with an all-powerful patriarch, states:
"Our Father would never permit us not to think for ourselves. He insists on us thinking everything through." lol.
;)
I've never heard anyone ask them the obvious question: Has it occurred to them that they are actually helping gays politically more than hurting us?

I don't think they actually care about "gays", rather that they happened upon a meme that garnered them a great deal of attention. I think we should keep paying attention to them because the moment we get bored they are likely to start blowing things up. Or eating their babies (which they talk about an awful lot :|).

[Cyclopea]

Even though I dislike what they do and say as long as they are not being physically violent, bombing gay bars etc I see them as harmless. The worse of the worse are the crazies that kill abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Phelps knows what lines to stay behind. And I dislike Phelps as much as anyone, but I'm on the side of free speech on this. The worse thing we can do is limit speech. I think the Arizona law is far far worse than Phelps. I think DOMA laws are far far worse than Phelps. Phelps' message is actually lost on most people who can't follow his weird logic. He's become a public nuisance but outside of that he doesn't warrant much attention. Phelps doesn't threaten physical safety. He hurts emotionally, he makes statements about us and about God and he shows up where he's not wanted, but none of that is illegal. If we make Phelps' pickets and banners illegal then next thing we know gay pride parades are illegal. Think about how many people are offended by Pride parades and by our banners. If we stop Phelps then they stop us.

Rufus

I agree. Yay First Amendment! :LGBTQFlag:

[Rufusboi]

I think Canada is light years in front of the US. You have civil partnerships, national health, and a hate speech law. We have......pretty much zilch. I would love to marry my partner. We can't. Obama has thrown us a couple of scraps so far. So if I have to rank problems, Phelps and his banners get pushed down the list. I mean, I call DOMA a form of hate speech. Its far more powerful hate speech that anything Phelps can throw at me. Do I feel bad for the familes of soldiers that have to see and hear that crap...yes. The real hate speech is being spewed in our state and national legislatures. But its going to take more than a hate speech law to stop it. Hate speech comes in lots of different forms. A hate speech law in the US might stop the Phelps crew but its doesn't stop the politicians, the religious leaders who vote and preach against us.....no hate speech law will stop that. It just stops the crazies like Phelps. I think we waste too much time on Phelps.

[Soon]

I think Canada is light years in front of the US. You have civil partnerships, national health, and a hate speech law. We have......pretty much zilch. I would love to marry my partner. We can't. Obama has thrown us a couple of scraps so far. So if I have to rank problems, Phelps and his banners get pushed down the list. I mean, I call DOMA a form of hate speech. Its far more powerful hate speech that anything Phelps can throw at me. Do I feel bad for the familes of soldiers that have to see and hear that crap...yes. The real hate speech is being spewed in our state and national legislatures. But its going to take more than a hate speech law to stop it. Hate speech comes in lots of different forms. A hate speech law in the US might stop the Phelps crew but its doesn't stop the politicians, the religious leaders who vote and preach against us.....no hate speech law will stop that. It just stops the crazies like Phelps. I think we waste too much time on Phelps.

Canada has had full marriage equality since 2005 as opposed to civil unions/partnerships (U.K.) which are separate from marriage.

-----

I see what you are saying about wasting time on Phelps, and that drawing attention to him is exactly what he seeks.

I know that discussing hate speech in a USA context is a bit moot considering it will never happens, so Westboro (and the like) have free reign to say what they want.

I think they are a hate group and don't think they are harmless, but I think the only way to combat them over there is to not give them the media attention they seek. (They did this in Gainesville, FL recently. The paper didn't give them any space/time).


I hope the USA does move forward on the main issues (DOMA, DADT, ENDA) that affect our community. My marriage is affected by the laws in your country and it is devastating, so I understand.

[Rufusboi]

MCC sent this out today

METROPOLITAN COMMUNITY CHURCH

RICHARD DAWKINS FOUNDATION



Nate Phelps To Tell Story Of Growing Up

In Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas

Son of 'God Hates Fags' Pastor To Speak At Event

Sponsored By Gay Church, Atheist Foundation



ADVISORY:

Press conference will be held on Friday, 4 p.m., 23 April 2010 at Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, 4425 SW 19th Street, Topeka, KS to answer questions related to this event.



MEDIA RELEASE:

Nate Phelps left his family at the stroke of midnight on his eighteenth birthday. After years in Canada, Nate returns to Topeka to share his story growing up as the son of Fred Phelps, the "God Hates Fags" pastor, and as a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. Admission is free.



Nate Phelps son of the Rev. Fred Phelps, will be speaking in Topeka, KS, April 24, 2010, from 2- 4 p.m. at the Topeka Performing Arts Center, 214 SE 8th Ave. (http://natephelps.com/)

[Cyclopea]

Here is that programme:
JW2JgPMQdVc

[Apocalipstic]

So Fred will soon be in Nashville, alas, I will be out of the country and can't counter picket.

Amusingly, one of the churches he picked to protest is Two Rivers Baptist where the last time I attended...the sermon was on "If Fathers are Weak their Children will be Serial Killers, Child Molesters or Homosexuals"

Here is why they say they chose Two Rivers....straight from the Phelps website

"Two Rivers Baptist Church 2800 McGravock Road WBC will picket Two Rivers Baptist Church to remind these so-called Christians that the Lord commanded them to boldly preach the whole truth of the Gospel, not namby-pamby, maudlin lies about a weak, effeminate Christ. The Baptists know full good and well that God hates fags and that he casts fags and those that enable them into Hell forever. They are afraid to tell the truth about God's Word because they do not want to suffer afflictions for Christ's sake. Matthew 5:11 "Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." These so-called baptists care for this world, not the next"

Idiots.

All I can hope is that the Baptists see what hate looks like, straight up and don't actually join in.

Bitter? Yes I am.

[MissGentleman]

I hate Westboro. I hate the Phelpses, I hate their extreme right ideologies.

When they're sitting around wanting to ruin a girl's graduation because she wanted to go to prom with another girl, they're also picketing gay funerals and pride marches. I really hope that one day their uber-fundie crap will be considered a hate crime and Fred Phelps will be arrested.

They're giving Christianity a bad name with these terrible acts.

All I can say is God hates Westboro Baptist.

[lyric]

I'm a documentary addict, and not too long ago, I was nosing around on Netflix and found a documentary about the Phelps family. There isn't an eloquent way to say it - these people are just nuts. Hate in any form is dangerous, and so is any group who promotes hate with such rabid conviction.

I'm not sure if this video is posted anywhere else on BFP or not, but Toxic just pointed this out to me. Has anyone seen what happened when Michael Moore took on Phelps and his family of lunatics?

YouTube- Michael Moore vs Westboro Baptist Church

[Nat]

Anti-Gay Protesters Pepper Sprayed at Marine's Funeral (http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/westboro-baptist-church-protesters-are-pepper-sprayed-at-marines-funeral-in-omaha/19612414)

OGcfHgA4-wk

A 62-year-old man has been arrested after he allegedly tried to fire pepper spray at members of the radical Westboro Baptist Church as they protested the funeral of a U.S. Marine.

The incident took place at around 10 a.m. Saturday in Omaha, Neb., where some 20 followers of the extremist Kansas sect -- who believe the deaths of American soldiers are divine retribution for the country's tolerance of homosexuality -- were staging a demonstration a block away from the funeral of Staff Sgt. Michael Bock. The 26-year-old Marine was killed in combat in Afghanistan's Helmand Province on Aug. 13.

Police told KETV that the group was facing off with counter-protesters when local resident George Vogel drove by in a pick-up truck. Officers on duty say they saw the driver extend his arm, and spray what they described as a "large amount" of mace into the air after turning a corner. When they later stopped and searched the pick-up, they allegedly found an "industrial-sized" pepper spray dispenser.

"Initial indications are he was probably targeting the Westboro Baptist Church [protesters]," police spokesman Michael Pecha told CNN.

However, it appears as though instead of hitting the radicals -- who were waving signs reading "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "God Hates Your Tears" -- Vogel sprayed a small group of counter-protesters. "You couldn't see, you couldn't breathe," Gina Moulas, who had stretched an American flag in front of the church members so mourners wouldn't see them, told the Omaha World-Herald. "It burns like someone poured gas on you and lit it."

Another anti-Westboro demonstrator Leah Kossakoski, whose husband is in the Air Force, told the paper: "The good guys got hit."

Shirley Phelps-Roper, daughter of Westboro leader pastor Fred Phelps, told CNN that no one in her group was injured, as they had covered their faces with their signs.

Vogel has been charged with 16 counts of misdemeanor assault and one count of felony assault on a police officer for the mace exposure, officer Pecha told CNN. He's also been slapped with one count of child neglect, since his child was in the truck at the time of the incident.

The drive-by spraying happened as Bock's family and friends were inside Omaha's First United Methodist Church. Some 600 members of the Patriot Freedom Riders, who escort the bodies of soldiers and protect their families, had ringed the chapel to shield mourners from the extremists.

Scott Knudsen, the Patriot Guard Riders captain for Nebraska, told CNN that members of his organization only ever attend funerals when they are invited by families, and never engage with church members or counter-protesters. "We don't get close to them," Knudsen said of the Westboro members. "We have our backs to them."

Knudsen added that he was disturbed Vogel's vigilantism. "It's inappropriate," he said. "It's a funeral service."

[DomnNC]

A nice lil article by CNN on Nate Phelps. I agree they are a hate group indeed and don't represent the kind of Christianity that I was raised in and know. One of these days they are going to attend the wrong funeral and a few of them are going to not make it home.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/16/westboro.nate.phelps/index.html?npt=NP1

They fund their trips by awards they get in court from suing city or county governments who try to restrict their "free speech" or even suing members of the deceased's family if they attempt to stop them. The guy who took them to court over his Marine son's funeral has to pay them $116,000 in compensation for their lawyers (which happen to be 3 of Phelp's kids). Also their "church" membership is less than 100 with 90% of that being family. The dude has 13 kids.

[The_Lady_Snow]

2 of his children have left that fold, The rest of The kids aré ALL involved including grandkids. They aré now fully aware of their rights AND have S
a Supreme Court backing. Phelps (the dad) will die but his hate legacy is here to stay.

[Linus]

Nate Phelps has a website: http://natephelps.com/

Him, he's ok. In fact, reading his story is interesting.

[suebee]

A nice lil article by CNN on Nate Phelps. I agree they are a hate group indeed and don't represent the kind of Christianity that I was raised in and know. One of these days they are going to attend the wrong funeral and a few of them are going to not make it home.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/16/westboro.nate.phelps/index.html?npt=NP1

They fund their trips by awards they get in court from suing city or county governments who try to restrict their "free speech" or even suing members of the deceased's family if they attempt to stop them. The guy who took them to court over his Marine son's funeral has to pay them $116,000 in compensation for their lawyers (which happen to be 3 of Phelp's kids). Also their "church" membership is less than 100 with 90% of that being family. The dude has 13 kids.


I saw a video of an interview of Nate Phelps when he was in Canada one time. He seemed like a very gentle and intellegent man despite the upbringing he had to overcome.

ETA: Had I taken a second to search..... ;) oXysH9LAEG0

[dixie]

To me they are nothing more than a cult, no different than the Branch Davidians, Christian Identity Movement, Heaven's Gate, etc etc. They use all these "freedom" tactics to cover their hate group agenda. I'm waiting on the day though when they go too far and begin actually perpetrating hate crimes against the ones they choose to speak out against. (Then, if they go the route of some of the other religious cult groups, it'll probably end up with either a Waco-type situation or some type of mass suicide.) These folks are just wayyyyy too nutty. And the brainwashing of the children is just sad and pathetic. Happy that Nate and a few of the others stood against them and left. :(

[Ebon]

"Nothing worse than a monster who thinks he's right with God."

Captain Malcolm Reynolds,

[betenoire]

duVgVei3dfg

I still think he's a faux news smegwaffle, but I agree with him here. I'm surprised, though, that the tea baggers aren't burning him in effigy over this.

[EnderD_503]

I see them as both a Baptist Church/Christian org. and a hate group.

Edit: I'm apparently temporarily dislexic and thought the question read if we saw that as a church or as a hate group. Bleh, anyways, either way I think what they do shouldn't be permitted by law. Alone they would be somewhat neutered, but there are a heck of a lot of groups out there that are seen as somewhat more "legit" that follow a very similar pattern. Not a harmless group that is for sure.

[Luv]

Phelps son was interviewed on tv last night. He ran away from the cult when he was 18. Even he says as many of us would agree..that it is fueled by hate by his father. He also mentioned that he is related to almost everyone in that group,,intermarrying is goin on.
At pride last year in San Diego I saw some people protesting the pride parade..I asked one of the guys holding a sign if he was with Phelps.Westboro..he said "No,,that guys an asshole" lol !
It is a cult fueled by hate

[Camo Eagle]

Yes def a hate group to the fullest.
Sadly they hide behind religion & freedom of speech.

I will nev fig out how a so called Church can use the word Hate in their campaigns. That goes against everything taught in the Bible. Then they even make signs that say God hates so and so.
Excuse me, God & Jesus nev hated anyone, and I dont think they would condone it said in their names.
Perhaps they should be more worried about explaining all this on their judgement day, instead of what someone else is doing.

Unfortunately, even though its just words that some say are harmless, they do inspire nut balls to commit physical acts.

Makes Military folks sick knowing this is how "freedom of speech" is being used, but we dont get to pick and choose.

[Gráinne]

One could point to any number of atrocities carried out by any of the "big three" religions, far worse than Phelps. I know that's controversial to say, but Phelps (so far) has not killed anyone, nor exiled people, or tried to wipe out an entire group.

While I find them and their message repugnant, I disagree with a "hate speech" law. Who would decide what's hate speech and what isn't? Who would decide the penalties? We'd have a whole lot of people in prison if someone got the power to just lock them up for saying something they didn't like. I'd be scared to death much more of my speech watched by whatever political party was in power, than a tiny group carrying signs. China, for example. A beautiful country and people, but the most terrifying experience of my life.

I have every sympathy with the family of the serviceman who brought suit all the way to the Supreme Court. I too wish the Phelps would just go away. But if you silence one, you silence all.

[EnderD_503]

One could point to any number of atrocities carried out by any of the "big three" religions, far worse than Phelps. I know that's controversial to say, but Phelps (so far) has not killed anyone, nor exiled people, or tried to wipe out an entire group.

While I find them and their message repugnant, I disagree with a "hate speech" law. Who would decide what's hate speech and what isn't? Who would decide the penalties? We'd have a whole lot of people in prison if someone got the power to just lock them up for saying something they didn't like. I'd be scared to death much more of my speech watched by whatever political party was in power, than a tiny group carrying signs. China, for example. A beautiful country and people, but the most terrifying experience of my life.

I have every sympathy with the family of the serviceman who brought suit all the way to the Supreme Court. I too wish the Phelps would just go away. But if you silence one, you silence all.

Hate speech laws are in place in Canada and the European Union. Are you really saying that you're scared to death of what Canada and the EU might do to you but aren't particularly as concerned about the Westboro Church and other larger orgs like them? Do you not see how the tolerance of hate speech in the US just might have affected the current nature of LGBT rights in the US (same sex marriage, DADT, anti-descrimination laws etc.) compared with many other western nations that do implement hate speech laws?

Just thought I'd add some of the hate speech laws employed by some of the most liberal (and I would say some of the "most free") and tolerant nations in the world today. Source for everything below is good ol' wikipedia.

In Canada, advocating genocide or inciting hatred against any 'identifiable group' is an indictable offence under the Criminal Code of Canada with maximum prison terms of two to fourteen years. An 'identifiable group' is defined as 'any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.' It makes exceptions for cases of statements of truth, and subjects of public debate and religious doctrine. The landmark judicial decision on the constitutionality of this law was R. v. Keegstra (1990)

Denmark prohibits hate speech, and defines it as publicly making statements that threaten, ridicule or hold in contempt a group due to race, skin colour, national or ethnic origin, faith or sexual orientation.

Finland prohibits hate speech, and defines it as publicly making statements that threaten or insult a national, racial, ethnic or religious group or a similar group.

France prohibits by its penal code and by its press laws public and private communication which is defamatory or insulting, or which incites discrimination, hatred, or violence against a person or a group of persons on account of place of origin, ethnicity or lack thereof, nationality, race, specific religion, sex, sexual orientation, or handicap. The law prohibits declarations that justify or deny crimes against humanity, for example, the Holocaust (Gayssot Act).

In Germany, Volksverhetzung ("Sedition") is a punishable offense under Section 130 of the Strafgesetzbuch (Germany's criminal code) and can lead to up to five years imprisonment. Section 130 makes it a crime to publicly incite hatred against parts of the population or to call for violent or arbitrary measures against them or to insult, maliciously slur or defame them in a manner violating their (constitutionally protected) human dignity. Thus for instance it is illegal to publicly call certain ethnic groups "maggots" or "freeloaders". Volksverhetzung is punishable in Germany even if committed abroad and even if committed by non-German citizens, if only the incitement of hatred takes effect within German territory, e.g. the seditious sentiment was expressed in German writ or speech and made accessible in Germany (German criminal code's Principle of Ubiquity, Section 9 §1 Alt. 3 and 4 of the Strafgesetzbuch).

In Iceland, the hate speech law is not confined to inciting hatred, as one can see from Article 233 a. in the Icelandic Penal Code, but includes simply expressing such hatred publicly:

Anyone who in a ridiculing, slanderous, insulting, threatening or any other manner publicly assaults a person or a group of people on the basis of their nationality, skin colour, race, religion or sexual orientation, shall be fined or jailed for up to 2 years. (The word "assault" in this context does not refer to physical violence, only to expressions of hatred.)

In Ireland, the right to free speech is guaranteed under the Constitution (Article 40.6.1.i). However, the Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act, proscribes words or behaviours which are "threatening, abusive or insulting and are intended or, having regard to all the circumstances, are likely to stir up hatred" against "a group of persons in the State or elsewhere on account of their race, colour, nationality, religion, ethnic or national origins, membership of the travelling community or sexual orientation."

The Dutch penal code prohibits both insulting a group (article 137c) and inciting hatred, discrimination or violence (article 137d). The definition of the offences as outlined in the penal code is as follows:

* Article 137c: He who publicly, orally, in writing or graphically, intentionally expresses himself insultingly regarding a group of people because of their race, their religion or their life philosophy, their heterosexual or homosexual orientation or their physical, psychological or mental disability, shall be punished by imprisonment of no more than a year or a monetary penalty of the third category.[17]
* Article 137d: He who publicly, orally, in writing or graphically, incites hatred against, discrimination of or violent action against person or belongings of people because of their race, their religion or their life philosophy, their gender, their heterosexual or homosexual orientation of their physical, psychological or mental disability, shall be punished by imprisonment of no more than a year or a monetary penalty of the third category.[18]

In January 2009, a court in Amsterdam ordered the prosecution of Geert Wilders, a Dutch Member of Parliament, for breaching articles 137c and 137d.[19] The trial is ongoing as of February 2011.

Norway prohibits hate speech, and defines it as publicly making statements that threaten or ridicule someone or that incite hatred, persecution or contempt for someone due to their skin colour, ethnic origin, homosexual life style or orientation or, religion or philosophy of life.

Sweden prohibits hate speech, and defines it as publicly making statements that threaten or express disrespect for an ethnic group or similar group regarding their race, skin colour, national or ethnic origin, faith or sexual orientation.

In Switzerland public discrimination or invoking to rancor against persons or a group of people because of their race, ethnicity, is getting penalized with a term of imprisonment until 3 years or a mulct. In 1934, the authorities of the Basel-Stadt canton criminalized anti-Jewish hate speech, e.g. the accusation of ritual murders, mostly in reaction against a pro-nazi antisemitic group and newspaper, the Volksbund.

[Gráinne]

OK, well, we obviously have different opinions, and I feel like mine isn't the "right" one. Back to the light posts I go.

[Rockinonahigh]

Westboro is a cult let by hate mongers who really beleave in what they do..try to breed more hate.Most are, as I hear are inbred to stregenthen the line of bigatry and hate.They also are just plane nuts,once I watched one of them talking to a reporter..the look on her face was like she had lost touch with the real world.The bloodshot eyes,angry ways he spoke of anything that didnt agree with there way of life..I expected her to stroke out with her next breath.In this country we have freedom of speach..but when it becone devisive as well as very hurt full and done with willfull intent to cause harm in any and all ways.They should be stoped as insagators of hate speach,instagteing a riot ..not to mention going against what this country stands for...treason is added.When they protest at a soulders funiral I peraonaly strongly wish they would be put on a plane then sent to a country where they dont have the ablity to do this awful retoric of theres.Since they do there best to go against what Americe stands for,let then see what its like to deal with goverments and people who wont take a moment ot call them out then pay the penalty for hate.The walls of hell are lined with people like westboro.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I really do think it is just a matter of time before someone takes matters in their own hands. Too many of our soldiers are coming home in body bags or wounded in someway. Someone who is talking & behaving at funerals like Phelps & his cult...I think the clock is ticking if you ask me.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I hope no one decides to take matters into their own hands with these types, they are smart enough to protest in a manner that is not only constitutional but orderly. Vigilante behaviours will only fatten up their bank and will allow them to deflect by being victims. Best way to handle protest the same way and keep them out of view and rev up them bikes so they are not heard.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I agree Lady Snow, but these are such different times. The public is very off now. Common sense seems to be un-common now.

[Luv]

I hope no one decides to take matters into their own hands with these types, they are smart enough to protest in a manner that is not only constitutional but orderly. Vigilante behaviours will only fatten up their bank and will allow them to deflect by being victims. Best way to handle protest the same way and keep them out of view and rev up them bikes so they are not heard.

They have been chased off several times..there are vid's on you tube

[The_Lady_Snow]

They have been chased off several times..there are vid's on you tube

I'm fully aware they can be discouraged I've attended a few counter protests in silence Luv and it's fucking hard when you read their signs and see their kids next to them being just as vile.

[Luv]

I'm fully aware they can be discouraged I've attended a few counter protests in silence Luv and it's fucking hard when you read their signs and see their kids next to them being just as vile.

well they are some of the most vile "things" I have seen in my life . Id love to shove their signs where the sun dont shine on them :rainbowAfro:

[suebee]

I guess we should have expected it. LINK (http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/elizabeth-taylors-funeral-to-be-protested-by-god-hates-fags-church/uncategorized/2011/03/23/18222)

[Jess]

wow... just...wow

when you think they couldn't sink any lower, they seem to have found a shovel. what terribly small sad lives they must lead.

[Spork]

I guess we should have expected it. LINK (http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/elizabeth-taylors-funeral-to-be-protested-by-god-hates-fags-church/uncategorized/2011/03/23/18222)
If they go ahead with that, I hope people remember her and her wishes, and do not fall for their bait. :vigil:

[Miss Scarlett]

I like to take out my hostility on Phelps and his stupidity here. (http://www.says-it.com/wbc/)
When I was Co-chair of our local Pride we actually discussed adding that link to our web site...:innocent:

[Miss Scarlett]

Seaford, Delaware in 2006

BZGKx2pTBQc

[Luv]

I'm not one who wish's bad on people..but in this case..I hope people come out in droves to honor Elizabeth Taylor,,but I also hope they take their signs and rip them up and hit em in the heads :hammer: with them and drive em off :bolt:. I dont know who their God is,,but it sure isnt the God of the Bible that I know !

[Ms. Tabitha]

Anti-gay church plans to picket Taylor's funeral

Westboro Baptist Church threatened, but didn't protest at Ledger's burial

Much as it threatened to do at the funerals of Heath Ledger and Natasha Richardson, the small Kansas church — which has notoriously picketed the funerals of fallen U.S. soldiers as part of a crusade against homosexuality — is directing its rhetoric at Hollywood in threatening to protest at Elizabeth Taylor's funeral.
"No RIP Elizabeth Taylor who spent her life in adultery and enabling proud f-gs. They cuss her in hell today.

'Westboro will picket funeral!" tweeted Margie Phelps, daughter of Westboro Baptist Church pastor Fred Phelps.
Though if the past is any guide...
They may be all (hate) talk. Despite threats, the group were apparently no-shows (http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b105560_funeral_services_held_natasha_richardson.h tml) at Richardson's funeral, and Ledger's funeral in Australia was a private ceremony.
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 8-1 earlier this month that the Westboro congregation was protected by the First Amendment — if not standards of human decency — when it protested at the funeral of a Marine who had died in Iraq, with some people wielding signs that read "God Hates F-gs" and "America Is Doomed."

The soldier's father sued the congregation for sizable damages and won, but the appeals process ultimately led to the high court.
"Fred Phelps and his vitriolic anti-gay followers are simply trying to exploit their so-called 'faith' by spreading messages of hate at a time when Americans are grieving the loss of an extraordinary woman, actress and advocate," GLAAD president Jarrett Barrios tells E! News.

"Overwhelmingly, communities of faith are beginning to embrace lesbian, gay bisexual and transgender congregants and sending messages that promote equality for all. GLAAD is urging media to share Elizabeth Taylor's legacy with stories of hope and acceptance, and which highlight her life's work to create a world in which everyone is respected and valued for who they are."
Taylor, who died Wednesday at 79 after being in ill health for some time, was a tireless advocate (http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b232442_elizabeth_taylor_aids_activist.html)for AIDS awareness and research and is revered by the gay community for her support and philanthropy.
"It's impossible to underestimate Elizabeth Taylor's impact on the fight against AIDS from the very beginning," said Craig E. Thompson, executive director of AIDS Project Los Angeles. "We're simply devastated by her loss."
"Today, we've lost one of the boldest advocates our community has seen," he added, "but her tremendous impact lives with us." Like us on Facebook

The two-time Oscar winner cofounded the American Foundation of AIDS Research, or amFAR, which also paid its respects to its late "Founding International Chairman" Wednesday.
"Dame Elizabeth's compassion, radiance, and generosity of spirit will be greatly missed by us all," the organization said in a statement. "She leaves a monumental legacy that has improved and extended millions of lives and will enrich countless more for generations to come."
But while there will surely be a memorial in Hollywood to commemorate the iconic star, the issue of where she'll be laid to rest isn't exactly set in stone. In recent years, Taylor had said that she wanted to be buried next to two-time husband Richard Burton in Wales.
Wherever the grand dame can rest in peace, we're all for it.


By Natalie Finn

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Sources/Art/source-Eonline2.gif (http://www.eonline.com/)

[Luv]

Westboro wont get the chance to picket..Elizabeth has been buried already..


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110324/ap_en_ot/us_elizabeth_taylor_funeral;_ylt=Ai_cui7Xd3rZj7URn jvsw8VxFb8C;_ylu=X3oDMTJzaWRsbW5tBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwM TEwMzI0L3VzX2VsaXphYmV0aF90YXlsb3JfZnVuZXJhbARjcG9 zAzEEcG9zAzIEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDbGl6dGF5b G9yYnVy

[Andrew, Jr.]

On the 6pm local news the WBC has applied to protest at a soldier being buried in Westminster, MD. Now, if the State of MD gives them the permit, God help us all. I am not sure of what will happen.

[Nat]

gecHgApB48A

Bravo to Nate Phelps for speaking up against Westboro and his dad.

[blush]

http://jurist.org/paperchase/2012/08/obama-signs-law-limiting-protests-at-military-funerals.php

About Obama's signing the law that restricts picketing military funerals

[Sheridan]

Westboro Baptist Church is a religious hate group, using religious passages to try and prove their hatred towards others is justified. They hate everyone I think , but they do hate the LGBTQ community just a little more in that special way only they can, nasty signs and screaming hate words to random people passing by. :jester:

[macele]

i wouldn't want to engage with any of these people. they have a deep dark hatred inside of them. engaging only leads to anger. that's what they want. refuse them acknowledgement.

it's not about being baptist. or methodist. pentecostal. and so on. it's hate. a hateful heart.