Backscatter

[Nat]

I just read an article (http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/05/tsa-worker-assaults-colleague-for-joking-about-his-genitals-during-body-scanner-training.php)about a TSA employee who attacked a colleague for making fun of the size of his junk during a body-scanning machine training session.

That got me to thinking about the whole backscatter x-ray thing. I am not cool with the idea of people I haven't met and do not want to meet seeing basically my naked body in order for me to get on a plane. What's next, body cavity search? It feels extremely violative to me. Moreso if men are the ones at these machines - but I'm not sure if there is a female-only policy on this one(?)

Anyway, I'm curious how y'all feel about this issue.

http://www.allamericanblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/airport_xray_scanner-thumb.jpg

[Nat]

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2008/10/01/va1237333386981/Security-scanner-6279326.jpg

[Andrew, Jr.]

For a supervisor to make fun of one of his students...no. I think that the student has a right to make and file a lawsuit against him. Today is a different world due to terrorism and 9/11. I voted for these scanners. I would rather be safe, and catch someone in the act.

When I go thru most airports I practically have to undress. I'm use to it. I have my shoes, belt, all my change, wallet, cell phone, and anything else possible that could set off the security alarm off and in a plastic dog dish. I have been wanded at least 3 or 4 times, and someone usually calls for backup. I give up. I pack, and I wear a jock strap or a harness. I also carry a letter in my pocket from my doctor stating that I am trans just in case. I have been thru the ringer.

I know that doctors make fun of patients. People make fun of those who are obese, disabled, or different. Why should I be shocked that another group is doing this? I am just waiting for adults to act like adults, but I think I will be waiting a very long time for that to happen from my pov.

Good thread Nat.

[Nat]

Okay, the TSA's site states, "It is important to note that this technology is always optional to passengers." So that's somewhat of a comfort.

Andrew, what I'm beginning to think is that this is exactly what adults act like. This behavior comes standard on lots of models.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Yep, you aren't kidding. I throw my arms up in utter frustration.

[theoddz]

This is just yet another reason that I am becoming more and more reluctant to fly.

I have the issue of being trans and not having had bottom surgery. I also have 2 prosthetic titanium knees which always set the scanner and wand alarms off. I have to get wanded every single time and because I present as male, the person who wands me and pats me down is always a bio male. The 4 times I have flown anywhere, since I had top surgery and had my name and gender markers all changed, I was patted down by (bio)males who did run their hands over my crotch area. It was very uncomfortable for me and I did not choose to reveal my trans status at the time, either. I don't think I should have to reveal that since it's really a non-issue.

These full body scans are intrusive and humiliating enough, without being trans (and not having bottom surgery) and having disability issues going on at the same time. I avoid flying at all costs. I'd love to travel more than I do, but it's very difficult for me. Add to all this the fact that I'm a large/tall guy and have trouble fitting my legs in seats that afford very little leg room, much less a wide enough seat and, well, the entire ordeal turns out to be very unpleasant for me. :(

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[apretty]

i am probably speaking from a place of privilege... i'm willing to consider that, because i don't have a strong feeling either way.

so some guy gets a thrill seeing my boobies, it's one more cost of the society that we live in--do you have any idea how many cameras are on the public streets, and how many times a day your image is captured..?

so, i shrug.

[Kobi]

I refuse to fly anymore. I dont know who is worse....potential terrorists or those trying to save us from them.

:3stooges:

And, I believe all this extra "screening" is a waste of time and resources. We are always reacting after the fact rather than nipping the problem in the bud.

[Nat]

i am probably speaking from a place of privilege... i'm willing to consider that, because i don't have a strong feeling either way.

so some guy gets a thrill seeing my boobies, it's one more cost of the society that we live in--do you have any idea how many cameras are on the public streets, and how many times a day your image is captured..?

so, i shrug.

Where would your limit be? Would you be cool with a body cavity search too?

[Nat]

DXbCwlldqxI

[Massive]

Well, to be honest, coming from the UK, I feel more not less comfortable flying if I know that people are being properly checked before being allowed on a plane, if I'm flying over the pond I don't want to have to be put in a position where I'll have to tackle some arsehole who wants to kill me purely because of where I'm from, I've got no issues with them, just leave me out of your 'religous' disputes, go take it up with your own god tyvfm!
Anyhow, yeah, the guy should never have ridiculed his student, but I am all for these x-ray machines being used!

[apretty]

Where would your limit be? Would you be cool with a body cavity search too?

i wouldn't be cool with a cavity search, the lines are already hours long through security--unless they were throwing in a pap smear, then i could just plan for it and schedule the extra time.

[Jet]

i just want to be in good shape when they do it. wouldn't want to disappoint anyone who gets a charge on the job.

[Mister Bent]

I wonder if they would let you just photoshop it a little, you know, to tighten things up a bit.

Fix those nagging flaws.

Draw in a penis.

Stuff like that.

[T D]

I haven't flown since Sep 10, 2001, and it will be fine by me if I never have to fly again!!

I personally find it sad that we have to x-ray peoples entire bodies in order to fly anywhere!! :|

[Nat]

http://www.worldculturepictorial.com/images/content_2/full-body-scanner-image.jpg

[torchiegirl]

It is just creepy to me, creepy *shivver

[torchiegirl]

I gave this a bit of thought. Passengers should just go to body suits designed like stripper pants, held together with velcro, and when they're asked step to the side for inspection, they could just rip their clothing off in one snatch.

[Queerasfck]

It's already been done.

http://www.saynotocrack.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/xray-glasses.gif

[Rockinonahigh]

Grrrrr..I dont like flying anyway and for anyone to require me to stand and be scaned for inspection like a side of beef is invasive as all hell,if I wanted them to see my naked body I would be streaking in the airport.I mean after all befor long we may well be serched even worse than now.The last time I flew I walked thrue a metal detector,had a wand passed over me then ask ..or told should I say..that I would heave to be checked by a female guard cause my drivers licence and my apperence didnt match as much as it should..Yeah I was soft packin and shure didnt look as much like me as my dl says I should..but there was no doubt it was the same preson as on my Id.They confiscated my gear, and all things that may have anything to do with it.Thank goodness that one thing was all I had with me,everything else was at home.They also took my cane at the gate ( my knee was messed up at the time) but gave it back when I departed the plane at destanation.Had to get help if I had to go to the bathroom or use the seats for support walking.I know we need to be safe from terroist but they r going to far.

[theoddz]

DXbCwlldqxI

Okay, I'm going to put something in here, related to the points that are brought out in this video.

As many of you may or may not know, I am a Union Rep for my local AFGE (American Federation of Government Employees, AFL-CIO). This labor union represents about 600,000 employees of the United States federal government, including the TSA. There's one big problem, however, and everyone on the inside of the AFGE knows this. The TSA is the most sloppily run, workplace-abusive agency in the federal gov't.

It seems that when the Dept. of Homeland Security was created in the post 9/11 days by the Bush administration (which was VERY unfriendly towards unions, and particularly the AFGE), that administration started, right off, with trying to exclude this group of federal employees from having any bargaining rights whatsoever. They put many regulations for that agency in place that subjected them to workplace abuses with no recourse, all in the name of "national security".

What has resulted is, in the wake of this action, a federal agency where the work force is, by and large, affected with low morale, lack of training, and a vindictive management style that systemically fails to provide good training and effective leadership. That's why this particular federal agency has made such a mess of things like this, I feel.

The union does so much more than just represent individual employees who have workplace problems/issues with their supervisors. We have our noses in almost every issue that concerns the training, safety and effectiveness of the federal work place. We make sure that people are given adequate training and the tools to do their jobs and do them well. We ensure that management doesn't cut corners when it comes to providing the best and most cost effective service to the American citizen and taxpayer through our support of the employee. We give employees the voice they need in making the government work. The government and it's agencies are, after all, people who serve people. Nothing more, nothing less.

What this all comes down to, really, is a serious lack of training and support in the TSA. The TSA has some critical problems. The problems you're reading about in this thread are really just the tip of the iceberg and what eventually rolls down on the "consumer" from a hierarchy of misuse and abuse. Right now, the AFGE is working, on many fronts, towards bringing the TSA under our umbrella so we can help to improve the way the American citizen is served by this agency. Every week, I get email updates on our progress, and it is hopeful. Just like the Obama Administration, the AFGE is having to try to repair the 8 years of Bush fuckery, and it takes time.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Toughy]

Absolutely not....period...full stop...the large majority of so-called airport security, in the US, is absolute bullshit and doesn't do anything to prevent anything........

I would much rather we did what Israel does for airport security.......they have the safest airport and airline in the world......over 30 years with no and I mean no incidents.

here is a link:
http://smarticle.co.uk/technology/israeli-airport-security/


ps..........I voted 'other' in the poll

[Kobi]

I'm thinking it would just be easier have all luggage shipped UPS - and cheaper too, and once everyone is on the plane......just pipe in some nitrous oxide (laughing gas) and fly the friendly skies!

On a positive note....an airport cavity search is cheaper than a dentist. :huhlaugh:

[Unndunn]

just to clarify for research purposes, I checked the wrong answer. I meant to check the third option (a necessary evil) but instead checked the first one. Phew, I feel better having cleared that up. I don't want to mess up any polls. :)

[Tommi]

Okay, the TSA's site states, "It is important to note that this technology is always optional to passengers." So that's somewhat of a comfort.

Andrew, what I'm beginning to think is that this is exactly what adults act like. This behavior comes standard on lots of models.

As someone who flies about every 4-6 weeks, I would not mind, as it will make traveling much faster. I will never see the person behind that monitor, and could care less because it's their job, and what fun can that be all day!!!I came from the medical field where modesty is respected in various ways.

The UVA and UVB radiation from a jog in the sun is greater than any primary beam or backscatter you could ever receive from a scanner, and both are good for you.Discounting the radiation you know you get at 30,000 feet.

The scanners are the best technology out there. Invasive as it may seem, I understand the need, and will not be opposed to being scanned, versus body patted. I too pack and am body patted and asked to step into the glass enclosure every time I fly.

My girl must schedule extra travel time, as she is body checked EVERY time she flies. Her luggage is opened and completely scanned. She submits her hands, and feet for swipes, When she walks long distances she wears an airbrace due to a nasty ankle injury many years ago.

So, she wears a removable brace, which they ask if she will remove. She always wears a skirt or dress, and has not been asked yet to remove it.:( . Is it also ethnic?. She is olive complected and dark,(Lebanese/Irish), and I believe profiled.

On one of our trips, I , fully "packed"made it through the gauntlet, Then waited for her. It was almost 45 minutes. I watched while they went over her body, Head to Toe again and again, then called other's over while she sat, nervously waiting.They took everything out of her carry on, and her computer bag. She stood, she sat, and stood again while she was forced to stand there in front of everyone coming through the scanners passing her by.

So, as we travel alot I would not mind, as it will make it much faster, and it can not see the color of anyone's skin.

[Linus]

As a trans person, and given the behaviour of TSA, I hate the whole idea. I've been to some of the busiest airports and they actually are pretty quick with passing people through (I travel enough to know). It's the jacked up fees that result in people bringing a ton of luggage with them onto the plane that slows this whole process down.

As for Israel's method of air travel security, I'm all for it --- if I can ascertain for a fact that discrimination won't be a factor in the decision to let someone fly or not. The reality is that the US remains and will always remain a very polarized nation in regards to the things that society and individuals like and dislike.

[Boots13]

I read somewhere that the scanner picture can be "cartoonized" yet still alert on potential weapons. But I still want to know how secure the cargo hold is. A cellphone can ignite a package, if you get my drift. Scary thought.

I still fly, but I really dont like to because it all is such a pain in the butt. I think flying is a "playing the odds" game anyway. The chances of mechanical failure or a crazy guy wanting to open the door is the bigger threat, and nobody, including TSA can screen those wildcard scenarios out.

Overall the TSA still gets a no confidence vote from me.

[dixie]

Great...yet another thing to keep me from wanting to fly. I've never flown before. I have an extreme phobia about heights. I went to the airport once, determined to get on a plane. I stood in front of the big glass windows and watched the planes take off and land...and passed straight out where I stood...lol My gf really wants me to try it, so that our travel choices won't be so limited. (Like this weekend, she hopped a plane to Boston then drove into Rhode Island for a family reunion while I'm still sitting here in NC.) But from all the horror stories people keep telling me, and now things like this...well, I just don't know if I will ever have the guts to try. :blues:

[Dean Thoreau]

.................question is,,,will they soon be used for something terribly kinky?
you know like that medical instrument known as a tens unit???

If it cant be used for something worthwhile,,then....blech....they need to invent something else....

[JustJo]

Ugh...what a choice.

I have no issues flying...rather like it in fact. I have zero confidence in the TSA regardless of the equipment they have to use...and certainly want to be safe when I fly.

However, if these are real images from the scanner then I am NOT comfortable with this. I'm femme...none of the complicating issues that many of our trans friends face, but still, for me....no. I'm not even comfortable wearing a two piece bathing suit at the beach. I'm certainly not comfortable with strangers at the airport seeing me naked. I don't care if it's their job, whether they make fun, are turned on, bored silly....whatever. No.

I will walk through the metal detector, they can use the wand, and if they feel the need I will accept a pat search from a female officer. See a pretty clear image of me naked? No.

[Apocalipstic]

I could care less for myself. I fly internationally often and if someone wants to laugh at what I look like naked, have at it.

However,

I do know it freaks out my trans friends and agree with Tuffy that the Israeli's do way better than the US does in keeping people safe and maybe we should take some tips from them.

So I don't know really.

[Medusa]

Oh thank JEEBUS this thread isn't about what I thought it was!!!!

Yanno, I get the need for this type of scan but I will feel incredibly violated if I am ever in a situation to be scanned and might reconsider flying because of it.

I am mostly concerned too for young teenage girls being subjected to x-rays at the whims of pervy security agents or people who are exceptional (like having no legs or a birth defect) being scanned for curiosity or entertainment by these agents.

The MOST concerning thing to me? In this day and age of ever-increasing technology, I do NOT want to see scans of my personal body outline up on the internet on "HeadlessFatChicks.com", nor would I want to see scans of the men I love up on "LookieAtTheSmallPenis.com"

Again, I get the need for...something....but damn.

[Nat]

To me it's definitely the sense of violation that bothers me - rather than a fear of being laughed at. I feel that taking a photo of a person's naked body without their consent is akin to assault.

And just as Medusa mentioned teen girls being ogled, little children may also end up being ogled and having their pictures traded over the internet.

The age of consent varies from state to state, but at any age now, you have naked pictures taken by government officials?

And then the jokers at the TSA are making fun of each others' bits? Those sound like trustworthy folks. I'm sure people with that much discretion would never ever abuse their power or whip out their iphones to capture the most notable scans.

Thankfully at this point in time, it's not yet mandatory here in the US. Here, we can choose to be publicly groped if we feel squeamish about the xray. Or we can choose not to fly and our worlds can shrink significantly.

[Ravenouss]

Maybe it will make those lazy, inefficient, rude, unprepared, worthless airport screeners move a little fast by trying to get some cheap thrills...

I say fire them all and hire the Israeli to do airport security... (and certainly do not allow them to unionize or we are screwed!)

[SuperFemme]

I find it interesting that the Federal Gov't wants me to have less mammograms because of the radiation, yet that same Federal Gov't is fine with dosing me with radiation at the airport. Maybe they can give us copies of the backscatter to take to our MD for analysis?

[SuperFemme]

Oh thank JEEBUS this thread isn't about what I thought it was!!!!

Yanno, I get the need for this type of scan but I will feel incredibly violated if I am ever in a situation to be scanned and might reconsider flying because of it.

I am mostly concerned too for young teenage girls being subjected to x-rays at the whims of pervy security agents or people who are exceptional (like having no legs or a birth defect) being scanned for curiosity or entertainment by these agents.

The MOST concerning thing to me? In this day and age of ever-increasing technology, I do NOT want to see scans of my personal body outline up on the internet on "HeadlessFatChicks.com", nor would I want to see scans of the men I love up on "LookieAtTheSmallPenis.com"

Again, I get the need for...something....but damn.

You know you made me go look don't you?

[Medusa]

You know you made me go look don't you?


HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAH!

Of COURSE you did!

[SuperFemme]

HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAH!

Of COURSE you did!

that was SUCH a let down. pout.

[Dean Thoreau]

Ok the supervisor should not have said anything and kept his comments to himself...but actually it comes down to locker room humor.....
or....So do you really think your medical dr, dentist, teacher, priest, therapist...etc has not sat and talked to someone aobut "their job" and told...funny stories, or other things?

Let's be honest, you dont think it is funny when i relay the story of the:

Gynecologist who walked in an examining room sat down to give a 50 yr old patient an internal exam and on the "table...where the instruments were...was a little note written....by the nurse that said...something old...something blue.......gynocologist looked up at the nurse quizzicly and she smirked he then put on his gloves lube and stuff and...turned and there was a nice big piece of BLUE toilet paper hanging from the woman's...ass"

The ER patient that came in with a...................... up his...............


The Minister who told me how he had given funeral eulogy that was so inspiring and touching that everyone at the service did not just smile at times...but by the end they had their heads buried in their hands...even tho Bob's wife did not seem to touched by it.......did I tell the minister the deceased's name was Frank?...........have I gone beyond the call of professionalism by relaying that true story?

Or the mammogram tech that when having lunch with fellow workers says..omg i had a patient today and it took 4 xrays to get the entire left boob!
And a co-worker responds hell I had one that was so flat chested..i thought she had her back to the machine! all that xray film for a nipple!

This type of discussion has been going on since the day you came out of a set of lips or a womb on your birthday.....dr's have said oh did u see that baby ...nurses have said ........... and it will continue until your body is turned to ash..if you are going to worry about it,,you may as well crawl under a rock and hide...cause in the greater scheme of things its only a body, a strap on, a cock, a bound chest, an O ring, a piercing,,,a crotch,,,,a boob....hell wrap the damn cock in aluminum foil, wear a foil bra.....have some fun and make them pat you down and smile and wink at the person.

[MissItalianDiva]

Well maybe I am just too relaxed about the issue but I don't really care it makes no difference especially if it will stream line the wait to get through the damn screening in all airports especially La Guardia and O' Hare then I dont give a damn. If someone wants to sit and stare at shriveled cock and sagging breasts all day then so be it. With as much one way traveling and my last name I am already red flagged so I get patted down 8 out of 10 times I get on a plane, whats one more step especially if it could possibly prevent a terrorist.

Flying is a priviledge and in order for us to keep people safe sometime we all must sacrifice comfort for a moment.

[tuffboi29]

I've got one word for this all.....AMTRAK.....wait..no...two words....BOAT...
Never will I fly let alone be subjected to this horrible abuse of 'athority'.

[Rockinonahigh]

Dean Thoreau..U r right bout the humor,after I read you post I laughd a bit and thought why the hell not.

[Dean Thoreau]

The Airport Solution

Here's a solution to all the controversy over full-body scanners at the
airports.

Have a booth that you can step into that will not X-ray you, but will
detonate any explosive device you may have on you.

It would be a win-win for everyone, and there would be none of this crap
about racial profiling and this method would eliminate a long and expensive
trial. Justice would be swift and efficient. Case closed!

This is so simple that it's brilliant. I can see it now: you're in the
airport terminal and you hear a muffled explosion.
Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system, "Attention
standby passengers we now have a seat available on flight number..."



:harley:

[Nat]

u2KXi66Rnh0

John T: I don't understand how a sexual assault could be made a condition of my flying.
TSA Lady: This is not considered a sexual assault.
John T: It would be if you weren't the government.

[RockOn]

The prices we pay in this world in which we live.

When I fly, I follow the rules. No way around it. Follow rules or stay on the ground.

Someone mentioned it is optional. I say needs to be mandatory that everyone must have the scan or no one gets scanned.

Perhaps I am missing something here but what purpose does "optional" serve?

[DomnNC]

I too get the lil visit to the glass room and the pat downs because I set the scanners off everytime I go thru. It matters not that you carry a card from your surgeon stating you are a medical implant patient, lol. However, I'm all for anything that will guarantee the safety of the passengers aboard a plane to make sure there are safe arrivals and departures. Like someone said, it's a privlige to fly and there's always going to be some necessary evil to go along with privilige. I also found out during said scan that the foil inside a cigarette pack will set the damn thing off, sensitive persnickery lil machines they are.

[Kobi]

What I heard was a choice between an invasive xray or a patdown including between thighs and between buttocks.

If someone, someday, is found smuggling some potential device stuck up their behind, are we all supposed to bend over and take one for the country?

We have become slaves to terrorism. We are allowing terrorists to rule our lives. We are allowing the threats of terrorist to strip us of our rights and freedoms.

When is enough, enough?

[justkim]

I am not so sure if it is a privilege to fly... If I was going to pay that much to reach a destination of my choice and now you want to search me... In the process would you mind pulling my hair and smacking my ass? I have been stopped and frisked... The culprit... my ummm... nipple rings... serious? Dean, I love the idea of EVERYONE stepping into a little box... Win Win situation all the way around... Check this site out below... I know this isn't a laughing matter for many but sometimes humor is the only way to approach things...

http://wewontfly.com

[Linus]

It is not a privilege to fly but it is a right to ensure privacy of one's self. It's interesting to see where the outcry is coming from this. The trans community has been speaking out against the back scatter scanners for a while since it violates our right to privacy (regardless of what is said as to how the info isn't kept, it has been proven otherwise) as well they have received sensitivity training in regards to trans individuals (so far, I've never been challenged).

I try to avoid the back scatter simply because of the amount of travel I do. There are airports/transportation systems elsewhere in the world (Israel, I believe) who have far more stringent rules. I just wish TSA had a "business" travelers line so I'm behind people who know the rules, get through and go on.

[Corkey]

I have to bypass all magnetic machines as I have a neuro implant. The times after 911 I did fly were frisky moments. Now I refuse to fly, if we cant drive there forget it, we don't really need to be there. I have and continue to receive x-rays, CT scans beyond "normal" levels because of my conditions, I sure as hell don't need TSA adding to my chances of getting that one dose that puts me over my bodies limit to withstand radiation.

[weatherboi]

the frustrating thing about all of this xray machine stuff is it is not necessary.
they have dogs to do the sniffing so i dont understand why they deem this a necessary avenue. it is a ridiculous solution and to boot they want to be able to also pat our bodies down in ways that make me cringe!!!

:mohawk:


I have to bypass all magnetic machines as I have a neuro implant. The times after 911 I did fly were frisky moments. Now I refuse to fly, if we cant drive there forget it, we don't really need to be there. I have and continue to receive x-rays, CT scans beyond "normal" levels because of my conditions, I sure as hell don't need TSA adding to my chances of getting that one dose that puts me over my bodies limit to withstand radiation.

[Martina]

i don't have a problem with it. i hate to fly, but i do twice a year or more. Whatever it takes to be safe and to get the job done quickly works for me.

[Scorp]

Do what you got to do to keep us safe. So go on and X-RAY.

Personally, every time I get on airplane, I feel as though it may be my last time on one. I hate flying and always have, even before terrorism, but it doesn't stop me from going anywhere.

It still amazes me that these huge pieces of equipment have the ability to stay up in there air. In any case, that's neither here nor there.

As far as terrorism and folks sneaking shit on planes in any way they possibly can, these scanners best be 100%. I'm sure it's going to be a matter of time before catastrophe hits again. I hope I'm wrong, but...I don't think that will be the case.

So sad what we have to do and go through because of such hate and power hungry fuckers. What the world has to come to. There will never be peace...

That's a whole other thread....

[Waldo]

The prices we pay in this world in which we live.

When I fly, I follow the rules. No way around it. Follow rules or stay on the ground.

Someone mentioned it is optional. I say needs to be mandatory that everyone must have the scan or no one gets scanned.

Perhaps I am missing something here but what purpose does "optional" serve?

It's only optional because there was initially enough concern that the TSA acquiesced and allowed pat-downs. The pat downs are quite invasive and frankly border on assault. In addition TSA agents are hassling individuals who respectfully opt-for pat downs.

The bottom line is there is zero validity for the need for these machines. They were put into play because someone stood to make a great deal of money.

They do not detect anything in bodily cavities.

To date TSA has stopped zero terrorists at TSA checkpoints.

It's theatre, pure and simple.

I too get the lil visit to the glass room and the pat downs because I set the scanners off everytime I go thru. It matters not that you carry a card from your surgeon stating you are a medical implant patient, lol. However, I'm all for anything that will guarantee the safety of the passengers aboard a plane to make sure there are safe arrivals and departures. Like someone said, it's a privlige to fly and there's always going to be some necessary evil to go along with privilige. I also found out during said scan that the foil inside a cigarette pack will set the damn thing off, sensitive persnickery lil machines they are.

It cannot guarantee yours, or anyone else's, safety. And to think that it does is just silly. I'm glad it makes you feel better to walk through them, but please don't fool yourself that it's solving anything.

What I heard was a choice between an invasive xray or a patdown including between thighs and between buttocks.

If someone, someday, is found smuggling some potential device stuck up their behind, are we all supposed to bend over and take one for the country?

We have become slaves to terrorism. We are allowing terrorists to rule our lives. We are allowing the threats of terrorist to strip us of our rights and freedoms.

When is enough, enough?



We are allowing defense and security contractors to lobby the government to put million dollar machines in place in lieu of doing that actual hard work of fixing the issues which make us targets for terrorists. In lieu of doing the challenging, yet more beneficial work, of analyzing potential threats.

the frustrating thing about all of this xray machine stuff is it is not necessary.
they have dogs to do the sniffing so i dont understand why they deem this a necessary avenue. it is a ridiculous solution and to boot they want to be able to also pat our bodies down in ways that make me cringe!!!

:mohawk:
It should make you cringe. The reason it's been done, aside from the fact that it made someone a lot of money is theatre. Making people feel like the government was doing something. The more important factors, such as changing the way airline crews are trained to deal with hijackers, reinforcing cockpit doors and requiring additional baggage screening weren't things that the public could see as actions. These continued infringements on our privacy, our movement and our persons are actions the public can see and say "well, it's for our own good." But it's not. It just costs us money. In taxes, in time that we have to pay a babysitter, in time when we could be working, in time in general. It just costs.

i don't have a problem with it. i hate to fly, but i do twice a year or more. Whatever it takes to be safe and to get the job done quickly works for me.

See above. Please follow the money. Who really stands to gain by this?


______

I'm sorry folks, In the first ten days of this month I had three horrific flying experiences and I've heard of dozens more from people I know and trust.

I am, by and large, a respectful, courteous flyer. But I've reached my limits. I'll continue to treat others with respect when I fly, but I will not submit to the humiliating and invasive scanners. I did it once, because I wanted to know what I was dealing with. It was, in a word, demoralizing.

To walk between two monolithic structures and be told to stand perfectly still, raise your hands above your head and wait made me feel as those I was waiting to be arrested, or worse, executed.

When I exited the machine I was told to wait and the agent radioed that there was a "female anomaly" and they were trying to determine if I would need a pat down. After five minutes I was allowed to go without a pat down.

I've since opted out and been subjected to very aggressive pat-downs. When you realize that you've been intimate with individuals who haven't touched you in places a government agent is now touching you it's too much.

Think about that for a minute before you say "doesn't bother me". How will it bother you when it's your lover or your mother or your child?

[Waldo]

Do what you got to do to keep us safe. So go on and X-RAY.

Personally, every time I get on airplane, I feel as though it may be my last time on one. I hate flying and always have, even before terrorism, but it doesn't stop me from going anywhere.

It still amazes me that these huge pieces of equipment have the ability to stay up in there air. In any case, that's neither here nor there.

As far as terrorism and folks sneaking shit on planes in any way they possibly can, these scanners best be 100%. I'm sure it's going to be a matter of time before catastrophe hits again. I hope I'm wrong, but...I don't think that will be the case.

So sad what we have to do and go through because of such hate and power hungry fuckers. What the world has to come to. There will never be peace...

That's a whole other thread....

We go through this because over system of government allows lobbyists to head up federal agencies. LINK (http://www.nowpublic.com/world/full-body-scanner-lobby-michael-chertoff-rapiscan-2552674.html)

[betenoire]

Perhaps if your government wants to make you "safe" from "terrorists" it should instead explore what, exactly, it does that pisses people off so much. And then fucking stop doing that.

[Nat]

http://consumerist.com/2010/09/pregnant-traveler-tsa-screeners-bullied-me-into-full-body-scan.html

The two TSA agents asked me, "Why don't you want to go through this?" I said, "I don't trust it." They said, "Why don't you trust it?" I said, "I am pregnant and would rather be pat down." And they said, "Oh but you get ultrasounds, don't you?"

I answered yes and the TSA officer said, "Oh it is less than an ultrasound, and it's really easy so just go through."

The TSA officers are doctors now??

They repeated again for me to just go through the scanner and it would be done in 5 seconds. I was literally in tears because I wanted a pat-down instead of going through the machine, and I felt they declined me that option. No matter how much I pushed for a hand pat-down, they pushed harder for the machine.

Then, after I stood in the machine, the officer waiting on the other side of it patronized me by cooing, "There, that was easy, wasn't it?"

I mentioned that I was forced to do it and went to the belt to take my possessions, while tears ran from my eyes.

I really felt the TSA agents were just being lazy since a pat down obviously takes more time for them, but I also feel like when I specifically ask for something that is an option for me, I should be able to get it.

[betenoire]

http://consumerist.com/2010/09/pregnant-traveler-tsa-screeners-bullied-me-into-full-body-scan.html

That's bullshit. And the many of the comments on the article are so sexist. I only had to reach the first page of comments to see a bunch of jackasses going on about how her pregnancy hormones were obviously making her unreasonable.

Gross.

[RockOn]

This puts things into incredibly sharp focus for me.

Let's go back to the 9/11 tragedy for a moment.

How about the people in the plane that went down in the Pennsylvania field?
They did not go down instantly. Due to events that were transpiring on their plane, they had a pretty good idea they would not make it. Try and put yourself in their position for just a minute. (although that is impossible to even imagine what a horrible feeling) Those poor souls had to endure absolute fucking terror for a long time as their situation became progressively worse on their airplane.

Pretend those people had been given these two choices that day before they boarded the plane.

Keep this in mind. This is a little exercise in the absolute. There can be no what ifs, no questions, no altering of the choices, no saying this could never happen, no saying this type of guarantee could never be provided. Remember this is a hypothetical scenario, it is only pretend.
Their only two selections are listed below:
1.
Go through what we have to undergo today in order to travel by plane. If they willingly agree to this, they are guaranteed personal safety.
2.
Board the plane exactly as they did that day - take their chances because they are highly indignant and sick of being intimidated by terrorism.

Wonder what their choice would be.
Wonder what your choice would be.
I know what mine would be.

[Corkey]

Sorry I don't do guilt. TSA has overreached with this. I don't easily give up my freedoms, seeing how I fought for them, and neither should you. If we do so then the terrorists have indeed won.

[betenoire]

Sorry I don't do guilt.

I'll see your guilt and raise you manipulation.

[Gemme]

This puts things into incredibly sharp focus for me.

Let's go back to the 9/11 tragedy for a moment.

How about the people in the plane that went down in the Pennsylvania field?
They did not go down instantly. Due to events that were transpiring on their plane, they had a pretty good idea they would not make it. Try and put yourself in their position for just a minute. (although that is impossible to even imagine what a horrible feeling) Those poor souls had to endure absolute fucking terror for a long time as their situation became progressively worse on their airplane.

Pretend those people had been given these two choices that day before they boarded the plane.

Keep this in mind. This is a little exercise in the absolute. There can be no what ifs, no questions, no altering of the choices, no saying this could never happen, no saying this type of guarantee could never be provided. Remember this is a hypothetical scenario, it is only pretend.
Their only two selections are listed below:
1.
Go through what we have to undergo today in order to travel by plane. If they willingly agree to this, they are guaranteed personal safety.2.
Board the plane exactly as they did that day - take their chances because they are highly indignant and sick of being intimidated by terrorism.

Wonder what their choice would be.
Wonder what your choice would be.
I know what mine would be.

Here's the fly in the ointment...there IS no guarantee. Someone above just mentioned that the machines can't see inside body cavities. If drug mules find ways to swallow or insert balloons of drugs inside them, what makes anyone think a terrorist and/or someone bent on hurting others for whatever reason won't do the same with something that could be used to bring a plane down?

I think that there should be ways to go about this without violating people. I don't see it happening any time soon, but there should be that option too.

[RockOn]

Gemme,
Thanks for your comments on my post. There is a great deal more than just one fly in the ointment in my little discussion. But remember, the entire thing was based on "let's pretend." I agree, there is no way the guarantee could EVER be provided in a bazillion years.

Better options would be great. Also, I read the article about the pregnant woman. It made me very, very angry. So sexist as someone already pointed out.

Today I have freedom to chose if I travel by plane, drive or stay home. I respect anyone's ideas and choices about their own lives. We are all different. We have different agendas and different life experiences in our past. I was in the army guard as a weekend warrior type in my 20s. If I had been full time military and had made a career of it, I am positive I would feel differently about this situation than what I feel now. My mindset would have incorporated "militant mindset."

(From this point on, my comments are to the general open forum and not directed at Gemme in any way.)

I don't buy into "SHOULD'VEs" from anyone. When I agree with someone, it is the result of what I see as best for me and not because I allowed someone to should've all over me. :)

[Waldo]

This puts things into incredibly sharp focus for me.

Let's go back to the 9/11 tragedy for a moment.

How about the people in the plane that went down in the Pennsylvania field?
They did not go down instantly. Due to events that were transpiring on their plane, they had a pretty good idea they would not make it. Try and put yourself in their position for just a minute. (although that is impossible to even imagine what a horrible feeling) Those poor souls had to endure absolute fucking terror for a long time as their situation became progressively worse on their airplane.

Pretend those people had been given these two choices that day before they boarded the plane.

Keep this in mind. This is a little exercise in the absolute. There can be no what ifs, no questions, no altering of the choices, no saying this could never happen, no saying this type of guarantee could never be provided. Remember this is a hypothetical scenario, it is only pretend.
Their only two selections are listed below:
1.
Go through what we have to undergo today in order to travel by plane. If they willingly agree to this, they are guaranteed personal safety.
2.
Board the plane exactly as they did that day - take their chances because they are highly indignant and sick of being intimidated by terrorism.

Wonder what their choice would be.
Wonder what your choice would be.
I know what mine would be.

Really? Guarantee? Bwahhahaha. Sure thing, pal.

And? My memory is pretty awesome about this stuff because it impacted me. Think back, please... to the training that air crews had... which was absolute cooperation with hijackers.

I have zero doubt those people suffered unbearable torment ONCE THEY REALIZED they were not going to land safely anywhere. But that realization likely did not come until the very last moments of their lives. Whereas the people of Flight 93, which went down in Pennsylvania, figured it out and tried to over take the hijackers.

Up until those attacks that was the standard operating procedures of hijackers. Take control of a plane (via intimidation of the crew and passengers) and demand the plane be flown to an alternate location and make demands. Keep passengers and crew until such time your demands are met.

There is no way in hell that works any more. Just won't. Today, if a passenger were to try to overtake the flight they would be taken down by other passengers.

The choice isn't about indignation. The choice is about paranoia and reality. When the tactics that the government employs makes sense, I will gladly submit to enhanced security measures.

In the meantime I'll happily move through airports in countries which have suffered innumerable terrorist attacks with security measures that are not meaningless.

Security theater or real security. That's the choice we should have. And I know my choice.

[Corkey]

I see your point Brock, but entirely disagree with it. I fought for ALL Americans freedoms, not just my own. I didn't have the luxury of thinking only for myself. I still don't.

[Waldo]

Latest news: 100 images leaked (http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans).

Obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request after it was discovered that agents in Florida had, perhaps illegally, saved the images.

[AtLast]

Latest news: 100 images leaked (http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans).

Obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request after it was discovered that agents in Florida had, perhaps illegally, saved the images.

I don't for one minute beleive that some assbites will do this- because they are assbites. They should be prosecuted for this is in fact, they broke the law. There are always idiots like this that will take advantage of a situation.

[RockOn]

Corky, I totally respect whatever stance you take. It is yours, serves you and belongs to you. I do not feel any need to have opinions similar to yours. You elected to make a career in the military, correct? From my very, very limited experience in the military, I noticed there were certain things that my mind was forced into embracing and accepting. It was your choice to sign up and it is no secret the military platform is designed to decrease individual luxuries. I can very easily see why your opinions on this topic in here are what they are.

As I mentioned, had I been career military, my comments in this particular thread would not be the same as what I have presented. I am sure of that.

[RockOn]

Yep ... you are correct. There will always be jerks waiting for an opportunity to take advantage of anything and everything.

[Corkey]

I have been trying to respond for awhile now and this may not post.
Brock you would presume wrong. I neither made the service my career nor did the service mold my opinions. But thanks for engaging.

[RockOn]

Corkey, my apologies. You wrote this in previous post:

"I don't easily give up my freedoms, seeing how I fought for them, and neither should you. If we do so then the terrorists have indeed won."

I did that assume thing after I read the part where you said "seeing how I fought for them"

By the way, weatherboi informed me in a little note that I spelled your name incorrectly not once, but twice. Thanks weatherboi! :)

[RockOn]

Hey Waldo -

Your opening comment, which is:

"Really? Guarantee? Bwahhahaha. Sure thing, pal."

leads me to believe you did not understand it was a hypothetical, totally unrealistic situation I made up ... as in "pretend like."

A lot of the rest of what you said was a good history refresher. Much of it I agreed with.

Waldo, my pal - everyone was impacted. Our whole fucking nation was tramatized.

You don't mind me calling you pal, do you? I see you used that endearing term towards me. ;) LOL!

This has been interesting discussion. I am out of here. Past my bedtime.

[Waldo]

Hey Waldo -

Your opening comment, which is:

"Really? Guarantee? Bwahhahaha. Sure thing, pal."

leads me to believe you did not understand it was a hypothetical, totally unrealistic situation I made up ... as in "pretend like."

A lot of the rest of what you said was a good history refresher. Much of it I agreed with.

Waldo, my pal - everyone was impacted. Our whole fucking nation was tramatized.

You don't mind me calling you pal, do you? I see you used that endearing term towards me. ;) LOL!

This has been interesting discussion. I am out of here. Past my bedtime.

Um... but it's not. It's a real situation which did, in fact, happen. And the scanners and the pat-downs are also real. You are not asking a hypothetical question at all. What you are asking is a moot question. It's really not my fault you don't understand the concept.

It's a moot question because even if the people on that plane submitted to the scans and the pat-downs it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Heck, they could have submitted to cavity searches and it wouldn't have changed one thing. It wasn't explosives or guns and even knives. The hijackers had box-cutters. Which, at the time, were perfectly acceptable to fly with. Box-cutters.

But you're right. Everyone was impacted and my own impact is no greater than that of anyone else. But then again, that was my point, you see?

And no, I don't mind you calling me "pal". I do mind you doing it in a way which comes across, here in writing, like some sort of posturing, but that's only because I find that sort of behavior to be annoying and childish.

[RockOn]

......

Ok
:)

[Nat]

I most likely will not stop flying over this, but I find the situation traumatizing. There are many, many people who (like me) have experienced sexual trauma, and the situation feels really violative. There are a lot of people who don't have a problem with it - which is swell for you. But I totally understand that guy when he says that basically he doesn't want to have to endure sexual assault to fly. That is what it feels like to me to have to choose between a naked pic and being thoroughly groped - and if you freak out and want to leave, you could face an 11k fine.

I have some PTSD symptoms, but not nearly as bad as others I've known. Just *thinking* about this situation is pretty triggering to me, but I think I could force myself to go through with it if there were no other choice. (And when I say, "it," I mean the patdown most likely because that will be a woman and I will be able to see her face - and because my "pat-down" can't be "leaked" - all of which are slightly better though still potentially very traumatizing depending on how it goes. I've had no problems with the old-style back-of-hands patdowns, but the fingers and palms patdowns sound pretty frightening to me.

The pictures that were leaked are both comforting and upsetting. Comforting because they are far more obscuring than the backscatter naked pics on the first page of this thread. Upsetting because of the lies TSA has told about how they aren't saved or sent anywhere.

I don't think this situation is alright at all. I think if I were a mom, I would be even less alright with my child facing these choices.

[Andrea]

I would prefer to take the chance on a one-in-gazillion terrorist attack than be violated by our government every time I fly.

Andrea

[Waldo]

And because you can't make up stuff this good, the NYT writes about the TSA being concerned at the growing support for National Opt Out Day (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/16/business/16road.html?_r=3).

The author of the piece writes: "Do the imagers, for example, detect sanitary napkins? Yes. Does that then necessitate a pat-down? The T.S.A. couldn’t say. Screeners, the T.S.A. has said, are expected to exercise some discretion."

Feministing (http://feministing.com/2010/11/17/national-opt-out-day-groping-vs-radiation/) has a great write up about that little gem.

[Nat]

pQum39C8K9Y

[Nat]

XSQTz1bccL4

[Corkey]

XSQTz1bccL4

This is insane.

[Nat]

TSA pat-down leaves traveler covered in urine (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news)
'I was absolutely humiliated,' said bladder cancer survivor

A retired special education teacher on his way to a wedding in Orlando, Fla., said he was left humiliated, crying and covered with his own urine after an enhanced pat-down by TSA officers recently at Detroit Metropolitan Airport.

“I was absolutely humiliated, I couldn’t even speak,” said Thomas D. “Tom” Sawyer, 61, of Lansing, Mich.

Sawyer is a bladder cancer survivor who now wears a urostomy bag, which collects his urine from a stoma, or opening in his stomach. “I have to wear special clothes and in order to mount the bag I have to seal a wafer to my stomach and then attach the bag. If the seal is broken, urine can leak all over my body and clothes.”

On Nov. 7, Sawyer said he went through the security scanner at Detroit Metropolitan Airport. “Evidently the scanner picked up on my urostomy bag, because I was chosen for a pat-down procedure.”

Due to his medical condition, Sawyer asked to be screened in private. “One officer looked at another, rolled his eyes and said that they really didn’t have any place to take me,” said Sawyer. “After I said again that I’d like privacy, they took me to an office.”

Sawyer wears pants two sizes too large in order to accommodate the medical equipment he wears. He’d taken off his belt to go through the scanner and once in the office with security personnel, his pants fell down around his ankles. “I had to ask twice if it was OK to pull up my shorts,” said Sawyer, “And every time I tried to tell them about my medical condition, they said they didn’t need to know about that.”

Before starting the enhanced pat-down procedure, a security officer did tell him what they were going to do and how they were going to it, but Sawyer said it wasn’t until they asked him to remove his sweatshirt and saw his urostomy bag that they asked any questions about his medical condition.

“One agent watched as the other used his flat hand to go slowly down my chest. I tried to warn him that he would hit the bag and break the seal on my bag, but he ignored me. Sure enough, the seal was broken and urine started dribbling down my shirt and my leg and into my pants.”

The security officer finished the pat-down, tested the gloves for any trace of explosives and then, Sawyer said, “He told me I could go. They never apologized. They never offered to help. They acted like they hadn’t seen what happened. But I know they saw it because I had a wet mark.”

Humiliated, upset and wet, Sawyer said he had to walk through the airport soaked in urine, board his plane and wait until after takeoff before he could clean up.

“I am totally appalled by the fact that agents that are performing these pat-downs have so little concern for people with medical conditions,” said Sawyer.

Sawyer completed his trip and had no problems with the security procedures at the Orlando International Airport on his journey back home. He said he plans to file a formal complaint with the TSA.

When he does, said TSA spokesperson Dwayne Baird, “We will review the matter and take appropriate action if necessary.” In the meantime, Baird encourages anyone with a medical condition to read the TSA’s website section on assistive devices and mobility aids.

The website says that travelers with disabilities and medical conditions have “the option of requesting a private screening” and that security officers “will not ask nor require you to remove your prosthetic device, cast, or support brace.”

Sawyer said he's written to his senators, state representatives and the president of the United States. He’s also shared details of the incident online with members of the nonprofit Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network, many of whom have offered support and shared their travel experiences.

“I am a good American and I want safety for all passengers as much as the next person," Sawyer said. "But if this country is going to sacrifice treating people like human beings in the name of safety, then we have already lost the war.”

Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network executive director Claire Saxton said that there are hundreds of thousands of people living with ostomies in the United States. “TSA agents need to be trained to listen when someone tells them have a health issue and trained in knowing what an ostomy is. No one living with an ostomy should be afraid of flying because they’re afraid of being humiliated at the checkpoint.”

Eric Lipp, executive director of Open Doors Association, which works with businesses and the disability community, called what happened to Sawyer “unfortunate.”

“But enhanced pat-downs are not a new issue for people with disabilities who travel," Lipp said. "They've always had trouble getting through the security checkpoint."

Still, Lipp said the TSA knows there’s a problem. “This came up during a recent meeting of the agency’s disability advisory board and I expect to see a procedure coming in place shortly that will directly address the pat-down procedures for people with disabilities.”

[betenoire]

Ugh, that makes me so angry Nat. :( They totally robbed this man of his dignity.

[Nat]

one blogger's experience: (http://www.ourlittlechatterboxes.com/2010/11/tsa-sexual-assault.html)

She scanned the formula, then turned to me and said, “Remove your shoes and stand on that black mat for a patdown.”

I said, “OK, what do I do with the baby?”

“You cannot be holding him.” (I am traveling alone.)

So I placed him into his stroller. She instructed me, “Spread your feet apart and hold your arms out to the side.” I obliged.

She patted my left arm, my right arm, my upper back and my lower back. She then said, “I need to reach in and feel along the inside of your waistband.”

She felt along my waistline, moved behind me, then proceeded to feel both of my buttocks. She reached from behind in the middle of my buttocks towards my vagina area.

She did not tell me that she was going to touch my buttocks, or reach forward to my vagina area.

She then moved in front of my and touched the top and underneath portions of both of my breasts.

She did not tell me that she was going to touch my breasts.

She then felt around my waist. She then moved to the bottoms of my legs.

She then felt my inner thighs and my vagina area, touching both of my labia.

She did not tell me that she was going to touch my vagina area or my labia.

She then told me that I could put my shoes on and I asked if I could pick up the baby, she replied Yes.

She then moved back to my belongings to finish scanning them with the paper discs for explosives. When she finished she said I was free to go.

I stood there holding my baby in shock. I did not move for almost a minute.

I stood there, an American citizen, a mom traveling with a baby with special needs formula, sexually assaulted by a government official. I began shaking and felt completely violated, abused and assaulted by the TSA agent. I shook for several hours, and woke up the next day shaking.

[Nat]

from http://www.flyingpasties.com

Designed to cover your bits, block radiation, and with writing that supposedly can be read through the scanner -

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-99048815036385_2133_16040434

[Nat]

I was looking up flying pasties on youtube and I ran into a really homophobic video talking about the "butch-looking women" who work for the TSA and implying they are perverts, implying that they cherry-pick who to scan/grope based on hotness. :( So there's another shitty thing about this whole shitty thing.

[betenoire]

I was looking up flying pasties on youtube and I ran into a really homophobic video talking about the "butch-looking women" who work for the TSA and implying they are perverts. :(

Yeah, there is a lot of that going around right now.

For example:

Oh hi, we are the Religious Right and we want you to make sure there are no Queer TSA agents, please. (http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/religious_right_were_concerned_about_gay_tsa_agent s)

[AtLast]

The poll results are interesting as compared to posts.

[betenoire]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

[JustJo]

I'm pretty sure I already posted in here somewhere that I'd really rather not have TSA folks looking at my stuff....

Having said that, I just got back from a business trip to AZ and, on the return flight, got shunted into that little roped in area for a search. For the record, I did not set off the metal detector.

When I asked the TSA rep why I was being searched when I didn't make it go beep, he said "voluminous skirts." I said "huh?" He said, "we're under orders to search anyone wearing voluminous skirts."

Okay, soooooooo..... I was wearing a normal, knee-length business style dress, with a normal skirt. Now, I get that not so many people wear dresses these days, but I do. It wasn't one of my big, hippie, floor-length, you-could-hide-a-trio-of-toddlers-under-there skirts (which I do own and wear). I couldn't have hidden my purse under my skirt, let alone anything else.

Anyway....step on the mat, spread my legs, and get patted down by a (female) TSA agent.

She was polite about it and, frankly, cursory. If I had wanted to smuggle something I certainly could have. So, I wonder how much good this actually does, first of all...and how this is impacting national security when the only other women in skirts (and therefore presumably subject to the same search) looked to be 70+ years old. :blink:

[lipstixgal]

I'm pretty sure I already posted in here somewhere that I'd really rather not have TSA folks looking at my stuff....

Having said that, I just got back from a business trip to AZ and, on the return flight, got shunted into that little roped in area for a search. For the record, I did not set off the metal detector.

When I asked the TSA rep why I was being searched when I didn't make it go beep, he said "voluminous skirts." I said "huh?" He said, "we're under orders to search anyone wearing voluminous skirts."

Okay, soooooooo..... I was wearing a normal, knee-length business style dress, with a normal skirt. Now, I get that not so many people wear dresses these days, but I do. It wasn't one of my big, hippie, floor-length, you-could-hide-a-trio-of-toddlers-under-there skirts (which I do own and wear). I couldn't have hidden my purse under my skirt, let alone anything else.

Anyway....step on the mat, spread my legs, and get patted down by a (female) TSA agent.

She was polite about it and, frankly, cursory. If I had wanted to smuggle something I certainly could have. So, I wonder how much good this actually does, first of all...and how this is impacting national security when the only other women in skirts (and therefore presumably subject to the same search) looked to be 70+ years old. :blink:

I get patted down every time I fly because of my titanium knee its a total knee replacement. So I set the machine off. Then they the TSA folks also search everything that is with me. My purse, bag carryon etc. But to be patted down because you wearing a skirt makes no sense to me at all. You really can't hide anything under a skirt I don't think.:|

[AtLast]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


Somehow, I don't think that these things are "temporary." They continue to be "upgraded" each and every time some new or different approach to breaching security comes along. The more invasive body scanners are a result of the "under-wear" bomber last year. I think this will continue unless we finally get to the heart of the matter which isn’t about building better scanners.

And, no, I don't believe that any of this will stop those that want to figure out ways to get through security measures taken- at airports or any place else. Impossible.

This is the main reason I see diplomacy and understanding of cultural variables as so important throughout the world. No technological security measures will ever bring the kind of safety that working with other countries and respecting their forms of government/religious ideology can bring. Respecting someone else's convictions is important, even when it runs counter to our own. Kind of a basic human sense of justice. Right-wing religious zealots make me nuts, but they have every right to believe what they do. The US was essentially founded on religious freedom.

I prefer the freedoms and liberties afforded me in the US and certainly don't like some of the misogynist practices in other cultures, but, it is up to the people within their own country to change these things. Although, I certainly want my country to provide support for world victimization as a way to build better international relationships. A major part of what the US military is doing in both Afghanistan and Iraq is directed at building trust with these societies and building hospitals, schools and other infra-structures around social programs for people.

Franklin, did not live in the world as it is now.

[DomnNC]

http://theobserverinsight.com/en/stories/charlotte-airport-director-says-he-wants-tsa-out.html

[Nat]

From the National Center for Transgender Equality - a guide for getting through the new airport procedures:

Transgender Travelers and New TSA Policies (http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=pwaqy9aab&v=0012kO3uRH1XjBI--gt11imRhl2hEkIj4DDLCzuhNyM2UlvrfvaI3QdCHEgKnlF4vpo 0-8pIs-gHYsHHnWPhtcsrKoYGtERR308fnVNAP0BteZIh87cQK2e_K6YG boEc2R_VLge4iMhF58%3D)

[Tommi]

From the National Center for Transgender Equality - a guide for getting through the new airport procedures:

Transgender Travelers and New TSA Policies (http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=pwaqy9aab&v=0012kO3uRH1XjBI--gt11imRhl2hEkIj4DDLCzuhNyM2UlvrfvaI3QdCHEgKnlF4vpo 0-8pIs-gHYsHHnWPhtcsrKoYGtERR308fnVNAP0BteZIh87cQK2e_K6YG boEc2R_VLge4iMhF58%3D)

I have worked in the field of radiation, law and public health most of my adult life. Hold two Master degree's and, am so painfully aware of the physical, psychological and medical needs of the general public and this issue. It , is a state of the planet it seems, and the technology of the time.


I understand there are painful experiences going on and humiliation for some of the traveling public. But when millions of people need to be looked at the scanner is fast, and friendly.

Nice article. As a Frequent Flyer, and as the article says. "Use Common Sense " I flew to Diva's and the only problem I had was a huge delay with people in fear of the scanner, TSA explaining the public does not get to see your image, just a private screen room, and then you may be pulled out, very few pat downs, and the delays it caused.

Article reads in part:
"Foreign objects under clothing such as binding, packing or prosthetic devices may show up as unknown or unusual images on a body scan or patdown, which may lead TSA personnel to do additional screening. This does not mean that you cannot fly with these items, only they may lead to further screening. Be prepared to give a brief description of what they are or check them in your luggage so that you can minimize scrutiny and delays"

I travel alot, and pack 24/7 * except when going through the scanners. I am constantly light frisked, and am ready and aware of this, but I think it is due to the spiked motorcycle boots , and leathers ;)
Since the advent of the new body scanner, and the undressed view they have access to in a private room, not viewed by anyone in line, I "pack" a bit different. I just asssume the pat down if packing will cause me an extra delay, I just "dress further" in the rest room AFTER I am scanned. Just place everything in the carryon, and go right on through, no pat down, and head to the first washroom to washup, and finish what I need to.

LeftWriteFemme is always subjected to a body and baggage check, as she always wears skirts or dresses, and is Lebanese. She just prepares for it, and is patient, and ligth frisked every time, and smiles.

Another article to look at:
Body Scanners Provoke Irrational Fear Of Over-Radiation At The Airport

Consider that when your plane soars up to 30,000 feet and brings you from New York to Los Angeles, you are exposed to 3 mrem of radiation, an amount that is 150 times greater than the scanner gives you before you board the same flight. Consider that the amount of radiation that you get from a scan (called backscatter because it reflects back rather than penetrates the skin) is so low that it is less than 2% of the amount of radiation you are exposed to in one day of simply walking around.


Full article is excellent * See*
http://www.forbes.com/2010/11/23/tsa-body-scanners-radiation-opinions-contributors-marc-siegel.html ( http://www.forbes.com/2010/11/23/tsa-body-scanners-radiation-opinions-contributors-marc-siegel.html)

[Andrea]

This makes me sick:

YouTube - TSA Breast Milk Screening Harassment Updated

[MysticOceansFL]

This makes me sick:

YouTube - TSA Breast Milk Screening Harassment Updated (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XhnZlmLGK8)




I watched the tape and I agree with you not only did they over step thier boundaries but clearly he didnt know all the regulations in the guide lines of TSA plus that was harrassment on TSA part for holding her in an area when they could have handled it alot better than they did , and all those people who didnt get body scanned I wonder what they had or didnt have remember plastic doesnt get picked up on scans.

[asphaltcowboi]

i think its great for our saftey.. but i also believe that if TSA would have been trained and on there toes to begin with it would have never gotten to this point.. then if someone really wants to "attack" a plane/jet they will find a way no matter the security

[Andrea]

Who didn't see this coming?

Pat down to ride Greyhound test
(http://networkedblogs.com/bcJzZ)

[betenoire]

Who didn't see this coming?

Pat down to ride Greyhound test
(http://networkedblogs.com/bcJzZ)

This is specifically about classism and racism.

I've taken a lot of Greyhound. As someone who does not own a car and who cannot afford to fly, any time that I want to go somewhere that is within 12 hours of my home - I go there on Greyhound.

Any time that I have crossed the border from Canada to the US via Greyhound I was treated like a criminal - in ways that I was NEVER treated like a criminal when driving across the border or flying over the border. I'm not going to lie - any time I've been on a Greyhound bus 90% or more of the other passengers have been POC. I would guess that 100% of the people on the bus with me (myself included) make under 24k a year, some of us WELL under that.

To be poor or POC and ESPECIALLY to be both poor and POC is to immediately be suspect when dealing with homeland security goons.

[Glenn]

My cousin trained bomb-sniffing dogs and he told me it says a hell of a lot if soldiers in Iraq and the FBI ditched the $100,000 xray scanners in favor of the $8,000 dogs. F*** these scanners. They are unconstitutional and unnecessary, and plain do not work!

[Waldo]

*scratching head*

How is this about classism and racism?

If the exact same things are happening in the airports - where, based on your logic, the white and economically well off are frisked, how does putting the same efforts at bus terminals translate to class and race targeting?

As for being suspect? I'm your average every day non POC appearing, economically privileged masculine appearing woman.

And, as of last night my roll of EVERY. Single. TIME I have flown during the month of November... whether the backscatter machines are in use or not, I have been pulled aside for additional screening. I expect that tomorrow morning at this time I'll be standing with my arms outstretched and having a stranger get friendly with me again.

The latest analysis of the greyhound traveler is 20 years old, so I'm going to guess there's a good chance that the demographic has shifted further toward your numbers, but in 1989 it was 70% of their travelers who earned less than $25k. I seem to recall someone on another site pointing out that there were routes on which airfare was often comparable, if not cheaper, than taking Greyhound. Or perhaps it was Amtrak that I'm thinking of?

Sorry, this particular outrage just doesn't pass the sniff test to me. It's still about money. It's being "tested" to see how much blowback they get. If the blowback is not strong you'll start seeing more and more equipment like the backscatter machines there.

This is specifically about classism and racism.

I've taken a lot of Greyhound. As someone who does not own a car and who cannot afford to fly, any time that I want to go somewhere that is within 12 hours of my home - I go there on Greyhound.

Any time that I have crossed the border from Canada to the US via Greyhound I was treated like a criminal - in ways that I was NEVER treated like a criminal when driving across the border or flying over the border. I'm not going to lie - any time I've been on a Greyhound bus 90% or more of the other passengers have been POC. I would guess that 100% of the people on the bus with me (myself included) make under 24k a year, some of us WELL under that.

To be poor or POC and ESPECIALLY to be both poor and POC is to immediately be suspect when dealing with homeland security goons.

[Glenn]

Testing what?:| Who chooses the radiation lane or the molestation lane?

[EnderD_503]

It's more about control over the population than passenger safety, and an example of how terrorist threats and western governments benefit each other. The more afraid of "the enemy" a government renders its population, the more the general population is willing to overlook the boots stomping all over their rights. The more western governments invade foreign nations and propagate discrimination, the easier it is for religious extremists to recruit people to their cause.

Right now in Canada these are only in place for flights destined for the United States as far as I know, and not to the EU...which I'm personally thankful for. Just hope it stays that way into next summer, because I would be ready to give up my ticket in order to avoid these things.

[Linus]

It's interesting. I've had to go through the backscatter twice in the past four weeks as part of travels and they were pretty quick and non-invasive. TSA is generally professional.

That said, however, because my plane ticket was still under my previous name I had to bring my name change document with me along with my new passport. It wasn't an issue for TSA until I was leaving IAD (Dulles in DC) to go to LAX. I got pulled out of line and queried on this.

IAD has to have the WORST setup for security screening I've ever seen. Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) goes through a single TSA screening point (rather than having different ones for different terminals). I didn't have to go through the backscatter but to be pulled aside, asked why my name change was done in 2009 and the ticket reflective of now, blah blah, was humiliating and completely uncalled for. Basically, it nearly outed me and I swear, if I had been asked why I did the name change I would have filed a suit shortly afterwards.

I did notice when I was leaving LAX a few weeks ago they had changed their patdown procedure and were randomly (truly randomly) checking people and describing better what they were doing. I think they did listen and heard what people have said. Not every flight and not everyone will be backscattered. And I have seen that the room is separate (and it is an enclosed room with no windows -- they communicate via radio to the person in the room).

I wish they would do a proper external audit of the security behind them and the procedure of how images are stored but all-in-all, they are not that bad.

[Waldo]

Friends and neighbors... this is why it's "Security Theatre" and not security:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/loaded-gun-slips-past-tsa-screeners/story?id=12412458&tqkw=&tqshow=WN

[Corkey]

YouTube - Grandma Got Molested At The Airport

Speaking of political theater, Happy Holidays!

[Andrea]

The National Center for Transgender Equality sent the linked letter to the TSA citing some unpleasant TSA experiences for transgender passengers.

This type of harassment does not make me feel any safer.

NCTE letter to TSA (http://transequality.org/PDFs/NCTE_NCLR_TLC_121710.pdf)

Andrea

[Gina]

I am thinking that I would rather be scanned/searched rather than having the guy/woman behind me get through with a bomb taped to their balls/vagina..

[Andrea]

I am thinking that I would rather be scanned/searched rather than having the guy/woman behind me get through with a bomb taped to their balls/vagina..

Are you aware no terrorist has been caught as a result of the scans/searches and it has been admitted they probably would not have caught the underwear bomber using the scans/searches?

Andrea

[Nat]

I am thinking that I would rather be scanned/searched rather than having the guy/woman behind me get through with a bomb taped to their balls/vagina..

My girlfriend said recently she'd be happy to just take off all her clothes and do a body cavity check too if it meant she got to fly down here for a month. But then she said she would never want to fly with kids under the current conditions - would never want to subject kids to it.

My feeling is that just because some individuals are fine with being handled this way, that doesn't really mean it's okay. I feel entitled to a certain amount of sovereignty over my body and I see the policies as extremely violative and anxiety-triggering. How long before junior highs and high schools begin using similar methods?

[Nat]

I am going to try to use another example here - maybe it will hold water.

It is a legal right in the u.s. to keep and bear arms.

I don't own a gun because I feel the personal risks of my owning a gun would outweigh the benefits of owning one.

However - just because I don't want a gun in my house, that wouldn't be a justifiable reason for me to advocate for repeal of the 2nd amendment.

Just because you personally would make the choice to be scanned or groped or both - that doesnt mean everybody else will or should be subjected to it.

[Waldo]

I am thinking that I would rather be scanned/searched rather than having the guy/woman behind me get through with a bomb taped to their balls/vagina..

And did you miss my link? Where it was exposed that people are somewhat regularly getting through security with guns, very visible, in their carry on bags?

It kills me that people still blindly accept this because they *think* it must help.

[Waldo]

And here's another for you:

Airline pilot videotapes security flaws at SFO - http://news.travel.aol.com/2010/12/23/pilot-in-hot-water-for-exposing-security-flaws/