How do you know someone is..

[Linus]

femme or butch? And be honest about this. How often do you look at someone and "Oh ya! They are.. <insert gender ID here>"? I have to admit it that I've done it. Recently, in a class I taught, I got the distinct feeling that one of the few female students I had was a butch (e.g., clothing, demeanor, visiting gay sites) but I never asked her to find out (not appropriate for the class).

[ravfem]

When i'm out in public, i look for butches, and do make assumptions based on looks, clothing, demeanor, etc

[JustJo]

I live in central New York...and the majority of the straight women in my age group look butch... :blink:

And I, even at the only gay coffee house in town, evidently look straight....or am invisible....I can't decide which....

I'm just thankful I found Scoote....cuz now it doesn't matter :)

[SuperFemme]

Are we talking about basic gaydar? Or something deeper?

[JustBeingMe]

Sometimes my gaydar goes off and sometimes it don't.

[Linus]

Are we talking about basic gaydar? Or something deeper?

Basic gaydar.

[SuperFemme]

Basic gaydar.

Maybe I *do* have some kind of subconscious internal process when my gaydar is going off. I don't think outloud butch or femme, but you might be onto something here.

I need to think about it.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Sometimes I have, when I have approached with that assumption I was corrected.

I do say oh look QUEER!!

Have yet to be wrong, except for once when the husband came up behind the woman who I thought was queer I was like:| Damn I was off

Great thread Linus!

[waxnrope]

my gaydar seems to only bear any accuracy when spotting gay men. I used to find dates for some of my gay men friends ... sigh.
So, my gaydar re femmes or butches, sucks ... most of the time.

[Linus]

Now, the reason for this question/thread/poll isn't a matter of testing one's basic gaydar but a question of how much we let that basic gaydar cloud our thought process about others and "how butch/femme" they are.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Now, the reason for this question/thread/poll isn't a matter of testing one's basic gaydar but a question of how much we let that basic gaydar cloud our thought process about others and "how butch/femme" they are.

Here is the thing Linus, my gaydar doesn't just look for b/f make sense? If I spot queers I get giddy, cause yanno it's like hey there is more of me!! I don't automatically *assign* butch or femme since well they could be dyke, queer, gay or simple Cindy and Sharon.

Make sense?

[Linus]

Here is the thing Linus, my gaydar doesn't just look for b/f make sense? If I spot queers I get giddy, cause yanno it's like hey there is more of me!! I don't automatically *assign* butch or femme since well they could be dyke, queer, gay or simple Cindy and Sharon.

Make sense?

Oh ya, totally. I do look for others as well (particularly transsexed individuals -- to borrow Dylan's term).

[Jett]

Now, the reason for this question/thread/poll isn't a matter of testing one's basic gaydar but a question of how much we let that basic gaydar cloud our thought process about others and "how butch/femme" they are.

Hmmm, if I get what you're saying, yeah... on a quick glance of someone's appearance may set off my butch gaydar.

I think over time though, and experiences etc. I haven't found it to be all that reliable so also no, I don't really let how short their hair is or Brahma work boots lead me to make assumptions about "how" anything but just that, their appearance.

I've found some folks can have a bunch of outer "butch markers" and after getting to know them, or learn how they identify that's all the further it ends up going.

Vice versa too, some people who've had much less butch markers have turned out to be some pretty damn hardcore butches.

I'll cop in that in the past, I have partially judged "how butch" by appearance (I didn't do that as much with femmes... but lived life and experiences of being totally wrong often enough has really changed that.

Femmes, are as we now harder to initially spot, but I haven't found any real different observations to what I've said about butches.

That said, today I also look less at "how butch" anyone is... and really see it more as different types of butches.

Metro

[Chancie]

Basic gaydar.

Ah, I thought you meant based on looks alone.

For me, gaydar goes beyond superficial appearance.

[scootebaby]

my gaydar quit working yrs ago...not that it ever really worked tho

being from Ky i learned NOT to judge by looks....in small town Ky a lot of the women look butch...so instead try to make eye contact...and this is ONLY my opinion and MY experience...if i try to make eye contact with someone i suspect may be butch and they try NOT to make eye contact i assume butch...with the femme women IF they make eye contact then i assume gay....dunno why but over time it seems to be a proven technique--for me anyway! *shrugs*

[Apocalipstic]

I usually am not paying attention, but if I am I try not to make assumptions, though sometimes I do.

Years ago I was driving through Atlanta and saw two women walking down the street. I assumed were Lesbians and said so, my sister gave me all kinds of crap for assuming...but I have never met any straight women who would wear black leather chaps and harnesses and have flat tops out and about at 10am on a Sunday MORNING.

It had to be left over from Saturday night. Right?

[adorable]

Like Jo said...here you can't assume anything at all based on appearance. EVEN if they are wearing pride necklaces, earrings, bracelets, underwear and/or hair bows.

Many women look androgynous here. It's a liberal place where everyone wants to "support" a right for everyone to do anything. It is the cool thing to do here.. bein' all kinds of prideful just in support. And earthy, we all must strive for earthy-ness.

So I don't see butch and femme when I look at gay people in a room. Here everyone looks so similar that you go by what people say regardless of how they look. <--for everyone but me of course. Fuckers.

Now do I make OTHER assumptions based on how they look regardless of gay straight or pookie snake? If I am looking at someone say in a club, I am not thinking about their ID, just whether I'd hit it which may lead to HOW, and of course in my fantasies everyone is thrilled with my choices....

[foxyshaman]

OOHHHH I love playing 'spot the not'. :giggle: I have good gaydar for men... I did not know that until I found out my husband (well ex by that time) was gay <go figure>... so I guess I honed it somehow as a young woman.

I have a hard time sensing femme energy for whatever reason. :eyebrow: But I have a good sense for some women. I, however, seem totally invisible... but hey then I get to play 'stealth lesbian'... which I quite enjoy :innocent:

[Martina]

i never trust my gaydar. It's often right, but i don't trust it. i just wait to find out. If a woman sits down next to another woman and they start making out, well then i might assume they're gay. Until then, nope. i have been wrong SO MANY times.

Six or so months ago i as in a 12-step meeting. It was a regular meeting, not lgbtq. Anyway, it turned out everyone there but one person was gay. But there were two women there -- one who i would have sworn was a dyke, the other who i would have sworn was not. Guess what, the dykey looking one is straight, and the straight looking one is a dyke. Gotta love Berkeley.

[suebee]

I used to think I knew, much more-so than now. It was clearer when I lived in a city. But then again it sometimes varied according to the neighbourhood. Now that I live in a rural area I'm not so sure anymore. Many women I would have thought to be butch if I were in the city aren't at all. And married / not married, children / no children - I don't think it's got much to do with it. So many people aren't out to themselves yet. I don't assume for the most part one way or the other. But sometimes my gaydar just says "yup! No doubt at all!" - and it doesn't matter how the person identifies.

Yup! Clear as mud! :|

ETA: I think it can be clearer when there is a GLBTQ community to identify with. Maybe that's why it's easier in some ways in a larger centre?

[DapperButch]

I would say that my gaydar and queerdar, in general, is pretty spot on from a range of masculine to even only somewhat androgynous females. And solid when it comes to gay men too.

I never make assumptions that a person is butch, however. I have seen/met many a masculine female who was gay, but not butch. That's internal, to me.

[Rook]

I've had a few "Misses", but they're very Rare...
For the most part, I keep the curiosity under an airtight Lid...
I think I learned to do this after I first came to the States..
My g/f's sister set off both gaydar & my curiosity on "Butch" based on how she dressed, carried herself, mannerisms in general..
At the time, I merely followed the stereotype of Butch when watching her..
I would ask my girl and she'd shrug sayin "she's always been that way"
Unfortunately[for my gaydar], she was happily married, and had a kid.
She was a self-proclaimed and true-blue proud redneck....

Nowadays, I try my best not to prematurely jump into conclusions based on appearances, since i've already had folks do the same towards me...

:blink:

[princessbelle]

It's really hard to tell for me. I think original assumptions are something most people can't help but make but wow can they be wrong. Since I'm femme, I'm assumed straight but wow is that wrong. So, it certainly can be the same for butch women or women that are gay and not butch but may dress that way.

Geeze, so many labels, so many assumptions and so many many mistakes when we assume.

[Sara]

I agree with Scootebaby--it's all about eye contact. I don't know how well I can spot a femme (not exactly a priority!), but I'm pretty good at spotting a butch. Regardless of attire or mannerisms, if we lock eyes for more than a couple of seconds and I get that funny feeling in my tummy and they have that knowing little grin, I can say pretty definitively--yes!!

[Lynn]

I don't think I have any kind of radar for femmes. If someone is edgy or more self-assured, I do decide that she's probably not straight. I usually don't have a chance to verify, so I don't know how often I'm wrong. That's probably more about my desire to be seen as edgy and self-assured. I do know that I don't have a tendency to associate any particular brand of femininity with femmes. I haven't been influenced by the high-low strata that seems to be part of things for many others. I just don't really know that many self-described femmes. Or butches, for that matter.

I guess I must have an automatic reaction to outer characteristics that I associate with butch, but I've been really wrong in so many embarrassing ways. From labeling (in my head) someone as a butch, and finding out that she's straight, to seeing a cute butch in my peripheral vision, but discovering that "she" is actually an adolescent boy.

I do find, at the few local lesbian events that I attend, that the women I think are butches or femmes typically do not identify as either. The thing is, I'm attracted to women, in general, so gaydar trumps my ability to discern butch or femme.

[BornBronson]

Never judge a book by its cover..my mama taught me that.

:cigar:

[tuffboi29]

[QUOTE=Lynn;111013]From labeling (in my head) someone as a butch, and finding out that she's straight, to seeing a cute butch in my peripheral vision, but discovering that "she" is actually an adolescent boy.



Damn it!! I resemble that remark!!


My opinion is the whole 'gaydar' thing just isn't reliable.I have been slapped a few time to prove it to me.As i got older and went into the city for weekend fun and got aquainted with the gay community in general I found that it's extremely difficult to pin any female into any kind of catorgory seeing as many don't seem to identify themselves as butch or femme.And in some cases when they did it was quite the opposite of what I was thinking.So yes I have thought to place the dyke or femme label a few times and found i was very off-base in my conclusions.

Now as for me I don't even know what label I would put on myself if any for the simple reason there seems to be too many damn labels to choose from and I'm indecisive.I just stick with 'boi' because that old guy at the station where I get my smokes seems soooooooo determined that one day I will appear and majickaly be the 15yr old boy he believes I am.



*chuckles* Good thread though...TY

[Lynn]

Never judge a book by its cover..my mama taught me that.

:cigar:

Good advice from your mama. There is judging, though, and there is that kind of visceral response which isn't really a thought process; it's more of a feeling. When thinking becomes involved, though, it gets a lot less messy!

[Andrew, Jr.]

I try not to judge other people (thanks BB). For me it is gaydar, talking, eye contact, outfits, jewelry, makeup, and implied sayings during conversations. I also note that if I am smoking a cigar and wearing a tie, it means something different than when a queer femme smokes a cigar. It is so different.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[MrSunshine]

Well I can't say I know what butch tastes like...:mistletoe:

[Blade]

I'm a 2x4, so for me in real time if a lady is femme she'd have to hit me over the head, for me to go "oh now there's a femme".

Not so in the butch department LOL
I find myself judging masculine looking females as "must be butch all the time" I guess because I see a reflection of myself, but for me I wonder if they are butch or TG.

I was talking to a friend the other day and there was someone she thought was butch, and said person had invited her to a rodeo, not like together just like why don't ya come over to the rodeo. When said femme got to the rodeo she found out that the person she thought was butch was in fact not.

I stopped to get gas yesterday and this person with 1/64th inch haircut and those baggie shorts that come to ya shins that 3 people can fit in, with a cap turned around backward, yeah I assumed she was butch, but ya never know.

[Converse]

I'm a 2x4, so for me in real time if a lady is femme she'd have to hit me over the head, for me to go "oh now there's a femme".

Not so in the butch department LOL
I find myself judging masculine looking females as "must be butch all the time" I guess because I see a reflection of myself, but for me I wonder if they are butch or TG.

I was talking to a friend the other day and there was someone she thought was butch, and said person had invited her to a rodeo, not like together just like why don't ya come over to the rodeo. When said femme got to the rodeo she found out that the person she thought was butch was in fact not.

I stopped to get gas yesterday and this person with 1/64th inch haircut and those baggie shorts that come to ya shins that 3 people can fit in, with a cap turned around backward, yeah I assumed she was butch, but ya never know.

Oh I’m the opposite. It’s very rare that I assume “Butch” by sight, it usually takes conversation- and quite a bit before I make any connection. Where as “femme”, I seem to instantly recognize anywhere- alone, with children, and even a couple of times when they have been with men. On those occasions I assume- he is her brother, friend- or she just hasn’t worked it out yet. But general gaydar- no, I don’t have it- a lesbian or gay guy, closeted or flaming, I’m always the last one to know.:seconddoh:

[Bad_boi]

The way people look and act can be a hint. This is not certain but sometimes it helps. What does it matter whether they are butch or femme or (insert identity) people are people.

The only true way is to ask them.

[GoofyLuvr]

Let's just say I've learned the hard way not to assume anything! LOL

[Curley]

It's been said in here it often depends where on lives and their community I live and worked in a very gay environment my gaydar is usually spot on but on the flip side when I'm in a different city My gaydar is often way off ie assuming everyone is gay.....lol.[

[chefhottie25]

I am real bad at this. I have no gaydar. However, I can always seem to identify a bisexual woman.

[Jet]

(e.g., clothing, demeanor, visiting gay sites)

They way they present.