Gas Taxes

[WolfyOne]

I was reading an article in my AARP Magazine and
thought it was quite interesting when I saw how much tax we pay per gallon of gas depending on where we live.

Does anyone ever really pay attention to the taxes when going to the pump?
Do we actually know where this money goes?
Do you ever feel like you're being gouged of hard earned money at the pump?

I feel sorry for those in states that demand so much in taxes for gas,
just for the luxury of driving where you want or need to go.

Here's a list of gasoline tax per gallon in cents as of April 2010

Alabama 20.9
Alaska 8.0
Arizona 19.0
Arkansas 21.8
California 48.6
Colorado 22.0
Connecticut 42.6
D.C. 23.5
Delaware 23.0
Florida 34.4
Georgia 20.9
Hawaii 45.1
Idaho 25.0
Illinois40.4
Indiana 34.8
Iowa 22.0
Kansas 25.0
Kentucky 22.5
Louisiana 20.0
Maine 31.0
Maryland 23.5
Massachusetts23.5
Michigan 35.8
Minnesota 27.2
Mississippi 18.8
Missouri 17.3
Montana 27.8
Nebraska 27.7
Nevada 33.1
New Hampshire 19.6
New Jersey 14.5
New Mexico 18.8
New York 44.9
North Carolina 30.2
North Dakota 23.0
Ohio 28.0
Oklahoma 17.0
Oregon 25.0
Pennsylvania 32.3
Rhode Island 33.0
South Carolina 16.8
South Dakota 24.0
Tennessee 21.4
Texas 20.0
Utah 24.5
Vermont 24.7
Viginia 19.6
Washington 37.5
West Virginia 32.2
Wisconsin 32.9
Wyoming 14.0

[Andrew, Jr.]

Wolfy,

Thanks for that information. I think it is terrible. And I do think it is going to get worse as time goes on.

[dreadgeek]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]I was reading an article in my AARP Magazine and
thought it was quite interesting when I saw how much tax we pay per gallon of gas depending on where we live.

Does anyone ever really pay attention to the taxes when going to the pump?
Do we actually know where this money goes?
Do you ever feel like you're being gouged of hard earned money at the pump?



Actually, if you look at the US *globally* we pay *less* for gas than, strictly speaking, we should be. The United States has artificially low gas prices. In Europe, the average price for gas is (in US Dollars and using Imperial units) just under $9.00/gal. The average price in the US is around $3.00/gal. Now, here's where it gets interesting--because Europeans pay more for gas, they drive less and use other means of transportation on a day-to-day basis. Btw. as a percentage of the price of a gallon of gas, our taxes are *far* lower than in Europe--the breakdown in Europe is around 70/30 (so the first 70% of the cost of a gallon of gas is taxes and the other 30% is the base price).

As far as where the money goes, it *should* be going to maintain the interstate highway system and local roads--that's not necessarily where the money ends up, particularly in the latter case. As far as being gouged at the pump? No, I don't because I'm well aware that just across the pond the $3.05/gal I pay for premium (no way would I put anything less than premium in my car) would cost me 3 or 4 times as much. Actually, I would like to see the United States ratchet up the price of gas with the extra funds raised going to fund public transportation and/or basic research to get us off of oil.


I feel sorry for those in states that demand so much in taxes for gas,
just for the luxury of driving where you want or need to go.

I don't. We Americans are far too dependent upon our cars and have made a very uncomfortable and spiky bed to lay in. It didn't *have* to be this way and it doesn't *have* to continue to be this way. The thing is, we keep putting off the day of reckoning, bargaining for one more year, six more months, one more day of getting in the car and driving the three blocks to get some milk instead of walking or riding a bike. Since it is clear we cannot legislate anything in this country any longer, the only thing that seems to work are market-pressures so the market will have to be the mechanism that forces Americans to give up our car-centric lifestyles.

Cheers
Aj

[Linus]

http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx?time=3 <-- You can use this chart to compare even Canada and the US. It appears even over a 6 year period Canada traditionally is a $1USD more.

Canada's gas tax (at least based on PetroCanada's est for 2007 was 32% http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/fuelsavings/2139.aspx). And there it's used for infrastructure stuff amongst other things. http://www.infc.gc.ca/ip-pi/gtf-fte/gtf-fte-eng.html

[Andrew, Jr.]

Linus you bring up a good point. My brother and his partner just came back from Europe. They rented a car, and gas was very expensive there. He told me, and I maybe off a bit, but it was close to $6+/gallon. Needless to say they did a lot of walking, and sharing cab rides.

[WolfyOne]

dreadgeek and Linus, put that way, I guess we're better off than other countries when it comes to gas prices. I just think it's a shame the cost of living hasn't caught up to the taxes any of us has to pay above and beyond what's already taken out of our paychecks. I look forward to the day when an alternative is put in, in place of gasoline that will be cheaper and greener for the future of all.

[Linus]

dreadgeek and Linus, put that way, I guess we're better off than other countries when it comes to gas prices. I just think it's a shame the cost of living hasn't caught up to the taxes any of us has to pay above and beyond what's already taken out of our paychecks. I look forward to the day when an alternative is put in, in place of gasoline that will be cheaper and greener for the future of all.

Or more, the US gov't artificially suppresses the price and impact of car driving in this nation. Canada (I can't speak for Europe since I haven't been there since I was 8) uses a lot of the taxes towards infrastructure (public transit), road improvements, etc.

[Gayla]

I live in Washington state and I think we are probably more aware then many of how much our gas taxes are and how they are used. They are so high here that any talk of an increase gets significant media coverage. Our 37.5 cents per gallon is broken down to dozens of different things. I often hear about this group or that group that gets a half a cent or a quarter cent per gallon.

Of course, off the top of my head I can't name any, but I know that there has been several times an increase has been proposed to pay for something I thought was really weird.

[Hack]

Gas taxes do pay for our roads, but many states, such as Michigan, send far more to Washington than what we get back in federal transportation dollars. And you also need matching funds to get your federal funds. In this economy, a lot of states are leaving a lot of transportation money on the table in Washington.

I live in a state that is a virtual desert for public transit. We make cars here -- well, we used to make a lot more cars here not that long ago, but I digress -- and public transit here is pitiful. Cars are the way of life. I think it certainly hurts our economy that we don't have good public transit. In many cities, we can't move people out to the suburbs, where the jobs are. If they don't have a car or a ride-share, they're screwed.

Also, though my experiences in Europe are limited to the Netherlands and Belgium, I can tell you that while public transit is plentiful (trams, subway, trains, buses), it's not always on time, reliable or convenient. I only used it a couple of times, since my gf at the time who lives there has a car because she hates public transit. They don't make it easy to own a car there. Parking is a premium, taxes on your car (a monthly payment) are high and there was talk recently in the Netherlands of putting a odometer tax on cars. In other words, the government would put a device in your car that would report how many miles (sorry, kilometers) you drive in a month and then tax you for each kilometer. They are trying to raise more money to keep up their roads.

As a career public servant, I can tell you there are few, if any, perfect solutions when it comes to paying for the services the public expects.

Jake

[WolfyOne]

Or more, the US gov't artificially suppresses the price and impact of car driving in this nation. Canada (I can't speak for Europe since I haven't been there since I was 8) uses a lot of the taxes towards infrastructure (public transit), road improvements, etc.


I think it would be great if there was public transit everywhere, but it's not possible. Many rural areas where I live can't have it because the poor people wouldn't be able to pay for it. Even the town I'm in only runs regular scheduled bus service during the school year for the college. It's cheap, like 50 cents, but it could take three hours to get to your destination in town.

Basically, I just wanted to make everyone aware of what taxes are at the pump where they live. We get taxed on almost everything except maybe the air we breathe. I think the only ones that come out ahead in all this are the politicians who keep giving each other pay raises.

[dreadgeek]

I think it would be great if there was public transit everywhere, but it's not possible. Many rural areas where I live can't have it because the poor people wouldn't be able to pay for it. Even the town I'm in only runs regular scheduled bus service during the school year for the college. It's cheap, like 50 cents, but it could take three hours to get to your destination in town.

Basically, I just wanted to make everyone aware of what taxes are at the pump where they live. We get taxed on almost everything except maybe the air we breathe. I think the only ones that come out ahead in all this are the politicians who keep giving each other pay raises.

I'm curious, if not taxes, how do we go about paying for those things that make a civilization, well, civilized? A lot of folks complain about taxes and yet they never offer an alternative to taxes. If you're not taxed to pay for roads, how do they get paid for? I suppose private companies could build roads and then charge "whatever the market will bear" for use of those roads but is that really a good idea? If you're not taxed to pay for schools, police and fire departments how do they get paid for? How do we pay for the public libraries or, for that matter, the military?

You say the only ones who come out ahead are the politicians but consider that if it weren't for government then private companies would probably take up building roads and then charge whatever they can get away with charging (and they would have, literally, a captive audience since you would be required to pay for ANY use of the road). If private companies handled public safety (police and fire) do you want to have someone run your credit card *before* a cop or EMT is dispatched to your rescue? Don't you think it is a great thing that you can go to your public library and, for free, get books or DVDs which you only have to pay for if they are late and even then the fees are nominal? These are all benefits. Don't you think it is absolutely fabulous that you can, with a phone you can put comfortably into your pocket, call anyone with a phone anywhere on the planet? I do. The private companies don't put those satellites in orbit, NASA does. Without NASA those satellites wouldn't even exist.

We are ahead of where we would be in the arenas of public safety, public education and infrastructure if we didn't have taxes so I think that, in fact, we derive quite a large benefit for our taxes. As a Supreme Court justice remarked at the beginning of the last century "taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society".

I'm open to the idea of paying for these things without taxes if that's possible. So what would you replace taxes with?

Cheers
Aj

[Apocalipstic]

I would pay more taxes at the pump to see better public transit in Nashville.

Way more.

[WolfyOne]

I'm curious, if not taxes, how do we go about paying for those things that make a civilization, well, civilized? A lot of folks complain about taxes and yet they never offer an alternative to taxes. If you're not taxed to pay for roads, how do they get paid for? I suppose private companies could build roads and then charge "whatever the market will bear" for use of those roads but is that really a good idea? If you're not taxed to pay for schools, police and fire departments how do they get paid for? How do we pay for the public libraries or, for that matter, the military?

You say the only ones who come out ahead are the politicians but consider that if it weren't for government then private companies would probably take up building roads and then charge whatever they can get away with charging (and they would have, literally, a captive audience since you would be required to pay for ANY use of the road). If private companies handled public safety (police and fire) do you want to have someone run your credit card *before* a cop or EMT is dispatched to your rescue? Don't you think it is a great thing that you can go to your public library and, for free, get books or DVDs which you only have to pay for if they are late and even then the fees are nominal? These are all benefits. Don't you think it is absolutely fabulous that you can, with a phone you can put comfortably into your pocket, call anyone with a phone anywhere on the planet? I do. The private companies don't put those satellites in orbit, NASA does. Without NASA those satellites wouldn't even exist.

We are ahead of where we would be in the arenas of public safety, public education and infrastructure if we didn't have taxes so I think that, in fact, we derive quite a large benefit for our taxes. As a Supreme Court justice remarked at the beginning of the last century "taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society".

I'm open to the idea of paying for these things without taxes if that's possible. So what would you replace taxes with?

Cheers
Aj


Aj, I didn't post the thread to debate you because you happen to know way more than many of us here. My sole purpose was to enlighten others to the taxes they pay in their state at the pump. I personally don't have solutions to a problem that started long ago. I always thought the tolls we paid on the roads were to go to fix the roads as needed, but perhaps I'm wrong. I also think if taxes were taken out of paychecks for roads and really anything else we may need to sustain us in this civilized society, we'd at least know how to budget better with what we have left over. Seems government has figured out what to take from our checks to pay for federal, state, social security, etc. I also think everything you said is great and yes, we've come a long way as a civilized society.

[Greyson]

The gas tax you pay at the pump are State Taxes, and Federal taxes. Mentioned by Hack, Michigan is but one of the states that send more money to Washington D.C. via the gas tax and gets less returned to the State for transportation related infrastructure projects. California, where the most vehicles are registered in the entire nation, does not get back what our gas tax puts into the Federal pot.

At the state level, through various executive mandates the transportation funds get moved into other funding pots that have nothing to do with transportation related projects.

Finally, transportation is not restricted to automobiles and the movement of people. There is also goods (freight)movement, bicycles, pedestrians, rail, maritime.

The development of land, Land Use decisions made by local governments, Planning Commissions, City Councils impact tremendously the patterns of movement and traffic. Next time one of your local elected officials votes to build the Walmart, or the 3000 single home development in what use to be agricultural land, just remember "Nothing is for free."

I to think our gas tax should be used to fund research to wean us off of oil dependency and to build various modes of transportation. The gas tax should not go into the General Fund, ecetera.

[MsDemeanor]

The only thing worse than the pathetically small amount of gas tax that we pay is that the money goes to non-transportation items. Tax the shit out of it and use the money put a 24-hour bus stop on every corner in America until decent rail systems can be built.

[Greyson]

This is timely. You might want to go take a look at this poll. I just read about it today in the online magazine Slate. It is contest for people to offer ideas, vote and comment on ways to improve transportation infrastructure.

Nimble Cities
Help Slate make transportation in and between cities more efficient, safe, and pleasant.By Tom Vanderbilt
Updated Tuesday, June 15, 2010

In the plethora of ideas, restructuring Gas Taxes is one of the ideas entered. Enjoy.



http://www.slate.com/id/2256666/

[Gayla]

And even with the insane amount of taxes we pay on everything, they just cut all Sunday bus service in the my county. :\

Yes, I know it's not all really connected to gas taxes but it still pisses me off.

[MsDemeanor]

The other thing that Americans need to do is get past the conservative lie that we pay so much tax. We pay shit in taxes compared to most developed countries. The reason the we have a failing infrastructure, a failing health care system, a failing social services system, crappy transit, etc. is because we don't pay enough taxes, and too much of the taxes that we do pay go to bullshit like the defense industry.

[Soon]

The other thing that Americans need to do is get past the conservative lie that we pay so much tax. We pay shit in taxes compared to most developed countries. The reason the we have a failing infrastructure, a failing health care system, a failing social services system, crappy transit, etc. is because we don't pay enough taxes, and too much of the taxes that we do pay go to bullshit like the defense industry.

It is kinda odd to hear people from the USA bitch about taxes and the price of gas when you live here!

However, what we get in comparison for our taxes is well worth it.

:canada:

[cinderella]

Gad!! Don't tell me they're taxing farts too!!!

Oh, excuse me...you're talking about another type of gas...

So sorry. Carry on.

[Sam]

It is kinda odd to hear people from the USA bitch about taxes and the price of gas when you live here!

However, what we get in comparison for our taxes is well worth it.

:canada:

canadian gas is like canadian cigarettes EXpensive

[Gayla]

The other thing that Americans need to do is get past the conservative lie that we pay so much tax. We pay shit in taxes compared to most developed countries. The reason the we have a failing infrastructure, a failing health care system, a failing social services system, crappy transit, etc. is because we don't pay enough taxes, and too much of the taxes that we do pay go to bullshit like the defense industry.

I rarely bitch about the amount of taxes I pay. I do get irritated when it seems like every other day someone is talking about raising yet another tax. We just got hit with another dollar a pack cigarette tax and I think it was last week they added sales tax to candy, gum and bottled water.

I don't mind paying them (hell I'm paying more then $60 a carton for cigarettes right now) but it's not like we're getting anything extra out of the deal. Right now, they're raising local taxes on things just to keep the state and local governments running. So raising taxes but shutting down services is where my problem comes in.

I'd gladly pay Canadian level taxes for Canadian level services but I'm kind of a Socialist at heart like that. :)

[Sam]

I don't mind paying them (hell I'm paying more then $60 a carton for cigarettes right now) but it's not like we're getting anything extra out of the deal. Right now, they're raising local taxes on things just to keep the state and local governments running. So raising taxes but shutting down services is where my problem comes in.

I'd gladly pay Canadian level taxes for Canadian level services but I'm kind of a Socialist at heart like that. :)

holy hell, our smokes went up to $50 bucks and that is in DE where there are no taxes. MD state tax went up since i last lives here.

Gas went up 5 cents since sunday.

I can just imagine what it will be up to by summer (aug) with this gulf/BP fiasco

[Waldo]

I rarely bitch about the amount of taxes I pay. I do get irritated when it seems like every other day someone is talking about raising yet another tax. We just got hit with another dollar a pack cigarette tax and I think it was last week they added sales tax to candy, gum and bottled water.

I don't mind paying them (hell I'm paying more then $60 a carton for cigarettes right now) but it's not like we're getting anything extra out of the deal. Right now, they're raising local taxes on things just to keep the state and local governments running. So raising taxes but shutting down services is where my problem comes in.

I'd gladly pay Canadian level taxes for Canadian level services but I'm kind of a Socialist at heart like that. :)

So you're happy to pay huge "sin taxes" in order to slowly kill yourself but you balk at raising taxes for keeping the government machine running?

I ask, specifically of you, because I am always amused when I hear people B**** up a storm around me about taxes each time they get a paycheck but just as soon as they cash that check they get in their car and drive five blocks to buy a carton of cigs.

My mother was the same way - of course back then the taxes on her cigarettes were brand new and only jacked the prices a little - to about $30/carton.

I guess it's all a matter of what's important to the individual.

[Gayla]

So you're happy to pay huge "sin taxes" in order to slowly kill yourself but you balk at raising taxes for keeping the government machine running?

I ask, specifically of you, because I am always amused when I hear people B**** up a storm around me about taxes each time they get a paycheck but just as soon as they cash that check they get in their car and drive five blocks to buy a carton of cigs.

My mother was the same way - of course back then the taxes on her cigarettes were brand new and only jacked the prices a little - to about $30/carton.

I guess it's all a matter of what's important to the individual.

And I find it interesting that you see my post as bitching up a storm.

I don't "balk" at any of it. I think I even said a couple of times in my post that I don't mind paying taxes. I do think it's frustrating that our local and state governments can't just come up with a number they need and raise taxes all at once rather then these little half cent at a time sin taxes every other month. Snohomish County is something like 63 million in the hole for this year and even more for next year. If they can make that up with a nickel on a pack of Juicy Fruit, I'll gladly pay it. I'd pay an extra dime if it meant buses ran on Sunday and the library was open more then three days a week. And maybe even a whole quarter to keep the pools open all summer and have the trash at the parks emptied more then once a week!

Yes, I am a smoker. I've been a smoker for more then 30 years. I will continue to smoke until I'm ready to quit. Having lost both of my parents to smoking related illnesses, I'm quite aware of the health consequences just as I'm aware that the price will not deter me. Some of us are even responsible about it and don't spend the kids food stamp money to get our nicotine fix or scrounge the streets picking up change to buy them one butt at a time at the Quicky Mart. Gosh, I even fill my car up with a full tank when I run low on gas. Imagine the taxes I'm paying for that!

[Waldo]

And I find it interesting that you see my post as bitching up a storm.

I don't "balk" at any of it. I think I even said a couple of times in my post that I don't mind paying taxes. I do think it's frustrating that our local and state governments can't just come up with a number they need and raise taxes all at once rather then these little half cent at a time sin taxes every other month. Snohomish County is something like 63 million in the hole for this year and even more for next year. If they can make that up with a nickel on a pack of Juicy Fruit, I'll gladly pay it. I'd pay an extra dime if it meant buses ran on Sunday and the library was open more then three days a week. And maybe even a whole quarter to keep the pools open all summer and have the trash at the parks emptied more then once a week!

Yes, I am a smoker. I've been a smoker for more then 30 years. I will continue to smoke until I'm ready to quit. Having lost both of my parents to smoking related illnesses, I'm quite aware of the health consequences just as I'm aware that the price will not deter me. Some of us are even responsible about it and don't spend the kids food stamp money to get our nicotine fix or scrounge the streets picking up change to buy them one butt at a time at the Quicky Mart. Gosh, I even fill my car up with a full tank when I run low on gas. Imagine the taxes I'm paying for that!

gayla... I realize I'm not always particularly eloquent in my communication but I said that I asked the question OF YOU because I'm always amused when people bitch up a storm AROUND ME.

But you can take offense if you want.

[MsDemeanor]

I rarely bitch about the amount of taxes I pay. I do get irritated when it seems like every other day someone is talking about raising yet another tax. We just got hit with another dollar a pack cigarette tax and I think it was last week they added sales tax to candy, gum and bottled water.

I don't mind paying them (hell I'm paying more then $60 a carton for cigarettes right now) but it's not like we're getting anything extra out of the deal. Right now, they're raising local taxes on things just to keep the state and local governments running. So raising taxes but shutting down services is where my problem comes in.

I'd gladly pay Canadian level taxes for Canadian level services but I'm kind of a Socialist at heart like that. :)

Gayla, I have to apologize. I wasn't directing my rant at your post; it was just a jumping off point.

I'm frustrated with the tea whiners complaining about being over-taxed, I'm fed up to here with CA republican state representatives fucking over everyone during budget season because they refuse to tax, I'm disgusted with conservative candidates who campaign to lower taxes, I'm over corporations being given tax breaks for moving their businesses offshore, and I've had it with the off-shore tax havens where our financial leaders stash their cash tax-free.

It's not the people in the lower tax brackets working their asses off just to get every penny hit with FICA (while high-wage earners quit paying after the first 100K-ish in wages) and pay a larger percentage of income on sales tax and gas tax and the other taxes and can't even get a break because they can't afford a big mortgage to get that tax credit. It's not the small businesses struggling to do the right thing and playing by the rules. It's the 6 to 12 figure earners and large corporations who get the breaks and fork over tons of money to twist tax code in their favor and pay less effective tax and yet still whine.

*quite possibly end of rant, at least for now*

[Gayla]

Gayla, I have to apologize. I wasn't directing my rant at your post; it was just a jumping off point.

I'm frustrated with the tea whiners complaining about being over-taxed, I'm fed up to here with CA republican state representatives fucking over everyone during budget season because they refuse to tax, I'm disgusted with conservative candidates who campaign to lower taxes, I'm over corporations being given tax breaks for moving their businesses offshore, and I've had it with the off-shore tax havens where our financial leaders stash their cash tax-free.

It's not the people in the lower tax brackets working their asses off just to get every penny hit with FICA (while high-wage earners quit paying after the first 100K-ish in wages) and pay a larger percentage of income on sales tax and gas tax and the other taxes and can't even get a break because they can't afford a big mortgage to get that tax credit. It's not the small businesses struggling to do the right thing and playing by the rules. It's the 6 to 12 figure earners and large corporations who get the breaks and fork over tons of money to twist tax code in their favor and pay less effective tax and yet still whine.

*quite possibly end of rant, at least for now*

I didn't think your rant was at me. :)

I totally agree with all of this, in both of your posts. The piece about the home buyer's tax credit hits homes because I spent months working with people who wanted to take advantage of that but couldn't get approved. Most of them were responsible adults with decent paying jobs and decent credit but our housing market up here is so whacked that the only homes they could afford wouldn't pass the muster for loan approval. I actually deal with this every day. There are so many opportunities like this that most folks will just never get.

A few year's back, the company I worked for moved from one city to another within the same county. We had to move because we had outgrown the current facility and didn't have room to expand. One of the main reasons they choose the new site was the tax incentives provided by the local government. They reduced the amount of local taxes we had to pay because our expansion brought more jobs to the area. These jobs were primarily seasonal, just above minimum wage and considered unskilled general labor positions. So the company contributed less to the local infrastructure because they paid 50-75 people $10 an hour for 4 months out of the year. I can't help but think the city got the raw end of that deal.