Busting Political Myths

[dreadgeek]

I thought that it might be helpful, given the rampant myths and outright lies related to topics political to have a thread devoted to debunking them.

This idea struck me after another poster on the 'Heaven and Hell' thread said "I thought our President was a Muslim" without giving any reason why they might think that (and given the track record no such explanation will be forthcoming).

Since, over the course of the next 24 months we can expect President Obama to be blamed for everything from people's partners leaving them to the extinction of the dinosaurs, I don't think we need to derail every single thread these myths will come up on.

So...President Obama is not a Muslim. He attended a UCC church in Chicago and is attending a Methodist church in DC. Since President Obama says he's a Christian, I can see no reason to say that he's not. I presume that he knows himself better than, say, any random commentator or watcher of Fox News.

[Apocalipstic]

I don't get why it would be a problem if he WERE Muslim, United Church of Christ AND Methodist, except for the part where he would not have much free time to govern.

On another note, I have been thinking about the phrase "All men are created equal". I think we are born, not created. Created sounds like someone made us and if we are to have division of church and state (which I realize we do not) how does this fit in?

[Medusa]

AJ - I think I just peed a little seeing this thread!


Ok - So can we PLEASE stop insisting that President Obama's birth certificate is forged? Because if you TRULY believe that the ENTIRE document recording system of the state of Hawaii is part of a vast conspiracy to help cover up a false birth certificate, you seriously need to be examined by a mental facility.

[Apocalipstic]

and Hawaii is a STATE!

[dreadgeek]

and Hawaii is a STATE!

What kind of name is Hawaii for a state, eh? How do we KNOW Hawaii is a state? Has anyone here seen Hawaii's birth certificate? Which Founding Father came from Hawaii? I think that Hawaii would LIKE us to believe that they are a state. If memory serves Hawaii had a King. Which is kind of like a Pasha, Shah or Caliph. So maybe...okay, it works like this. Barack Obama, traveled back in TIME, detonated a WMD at the bottom of the Pacific to make a set of islands, installed a king and then traveled FORWARD in time so that Hawaii would then become a state. Then it was just a matter of time. "Statehood" came (has anyone seen this hood that Hawaii has?) and then there was a 'documents record' system and he was born in a 'hospital' (has anyone here seen this hospital?). Then he was 'born' (funny how his mother 'died', how do we know Obama was born at all? Maybe he was grown in a vat) and had a "mom" and "grandparents".

Has anyone here met this alleged 'mom' or "grandparents". I thought not!

So...

Barack Obama--->Creates Hawaii using WMD--->Hawaii gets a Caliph (King)--->Hawaii becomes a 'state'--->Barack Obama is "born"--->Barack Obama becomes "President". In fact, now that I think about it--how do we know that Barack Obama didn't travel back in time and create the United States so that he could then destroy it? Hmmm...I'm just asking questions!

"I'm Glen Beck and I approved this message".

Cheers
Aj

[Corkey]

What kind of name is Hawaii for a state, eh? How do we KNOW Hawaii is a state? Has anyone here seen Hawaii's birth certificate? Which Founding Father came from Hawaii? I think that Hawaii would LIKE us to believe that they are a state. If memory serves Hawaii had a King. Which is kind of like a Pasha, Shah or Caliph. So maybe...okay, it works like this. Barack Obama, traveled back in TIME, detonated a WMD at the bottom of the Pacific to make a set of islands, installed a king and then traveled FORWARD in time so that Hawaii would then become a state. Then it was just a matter of time. "Statehood" came (has anyone seen this hood that Hawaii has?) and then there was a 'documents record' system and he was born in a 'hospital' (has anyone here seen this hospital?). Then he was 'born' (funny how his mother 'died', how do we know Obama was born at all? Maybe he was grown in a vat) and had a "mom" and "grandparents".

Has anyone here met this alleged 'mom' or "grandparents". I thought not!

So...

Barack Obama--->Creates Hawaii using WMD--->Hawaii gets a Caliph (King)--->Hawaii becomes a 'state'--->Barack Obama is "born"--->Barack Obama becomes "President". In fact, now that I think about it--how do we know that Barack Obama didn't travel back in time and create the United States so that he could then destroy it? Hmmm...I'm just asking questions!

"I'm Glen Beck and I approved this message".

Cheers
Aj
If this weren't so rooted in just how Beck thinks it would be hilarious!

[dreadgeek]

If this weren't so rooted in just how Beck thinks it would be hilarious!

Want to know what's really scary? I have never actually watched a full episode of his show! I tried--sweet and sour Jesus I tried--and couldn't make it past the third commercial break it was so painful.

[Medusa]

:|

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/30/tea-party-jesus-blog-puts_n_630753.html

[Ebon]

I thought that it might be helpful, given the rampant myths and outright lies related to topics political to have a thread devoted to debunking them.

This idea struck me after another poster on the 'Heaven and Hell' thread said "I thought our President was a Muslim" without giving any reason why they might think that (and given the track record no such explanation will be forthcoming).

Since, over the course of the next 24 months we can expect President Obama to be blamed for everything from people's partners leaving them to the extinction of the dinosaurs, I don't think we need to derail every single thread these myths will come up on.

So...President Obama is not a Muslim. He attended a UCC church in Chicago and is attending a Methodist church in DC. Since President Obama says he's a Christian, I can see no reason to say that he's not. I presume that he knows himself better than, say, any random commentator or watcher of Fox News.

That whole Muslim thing is obviously a cover for people that don't have the guts to say I don't like our president because he's black/part black. They aren't fooling me by any means.

[dreadgeek]

:|

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/30/tea-party-jesus-blog-puts_n_630753.html

You know the thing that gets me is that there are queer people who SUPPORT these yahoos. I do not understand why. For the life of me, I cannot figure it out. Quantum theory? Sure, I understand it at a layperson's level. Evolutionary theory? Sure. Relativity theory? Absolutely. UNIX shell scripting? No problem. But queer people who support the likes of Mike Huckabee or Rick Santorum I do not grok at all.

[Medusa]

That whole Muslim thing is obviously a cover for people that don't have the guts to say I don't like our president because he's black/part black. They aren't fooling me by any means.

Right?

I recently had an entire day calling out a bunch of ignorant asshats on a news group on Facebook. I posted something like "why dont you just go ahead and admit that you dont like President Obama simply because he is Black and stop trying to pretend that its because you are "concerned" for the country? Just admit you are racist and be done with it."

One person responded with "YOU are the racist here! All you can see is his skin color!!!! I just dont like him and I dont need a reason you racist!!"

And these were grown folks. :|

[Ebon]

Right?

I recently had an entire day calling out a bunch of ignorant asshats on a news group on Facebook. I posted something like "why dont you just go ahead and admit that you dont like President Obama simply because he is Black and stop trying to pretend that its because you are "concerned" for the country? Just admit you are racist and be done with it."

One person responded with "YOU are the racist here! All you can see is his skin color!!!! I just dont like him and I dont need a reason you racist!!"

And these were grown folks. :|

Damn they even said you were racist. lol!!!!!! That is hilarious. Some grown folks are funny, and not in that haha funny kind of way in a scary kind of way.

[UofMfan]

You know the thing that gets me is that there are queer people who SUPPORT these yahoos. I do not understand why. For the life of me, I cannot figure it out. Quantum theory? Sure, I understand it at a layperson's level. Evolutionary theory? Sure. Relativity theory? Absolutely. UNIX shell scripting? No problem. But queer people who support the likes of Mike Huckabee or Rick Santorum I do not grok at all.

You know I finally came to the conclusion that racism is stronger than common sense. It is how I can reconcile your question, which I ask myself regularly.

I have also found out that racism and ignorance go hand in hand. They feed off each other.

BTW, I love this thread. Plan to come back to it later.

[Medusa]

I honestly believe that there is a scarily-large set of people in this country who thought that President Obama was going to become President and that there would be some kind of universal shift in the sky where babies would start being born with horns and the moon would turn to blood.

I have seen WAY too many people seriously discuss how President Obama is the "Antichrist" or how he is going to "enslave the white people". It's scary to think that there are people out there who *actually* believe that. I try not to think of them as anti-government supremacists with a paranoia streak as wide as the Mississippi river but its hard not to think people are crazy when they are espousing crazy ideas.

Is it wrong that I think there should be an IQ test required for voting? (/snark)

[dreadgeek]

Damn they even said you were racist. lol!!!!!! That is hilarious. Some grown folks are funny, and not in that haha funny kind of way in a scary kind of way.

Oh there is this really insidious meme on the Right now that liberals are the only racists. I absolutely kid you not. There is a writer, Mike Devine who wrote--I am not pulling your leg, I'll have to find the link to it--an essay defending Rush Limbaugh over the whole buying the St. Louis Rams drama from a year or two ago. Over the course of his piece, he relates this idea that liberals--who have no black friends and don't have black employees--are racists while a man who uses the n-word but has black employees isn't a racist. Yes, you read that right.

Here he is in his own words:

Many people would label a person as a racist for using the n-word, yet I have known many that use it, that have many black friends and hire black people and [treat] them well. Conversely, I know many, mostly liberal whites, who would ostracize people that would ever use the n-word, but who never hire blacks and have no close black friends.

I'm not sure how loosely he is using the term 'friend' here. I would hope that none of my friends would use the n-word. I know that any friend of mine who did and I heard them say it, would not be a friend of mine for much longer. But that is the meme. You can use the n-word. You can, it would appear, make any manner of racist statements you wish and not be a racist.

That's the meme, though. So conservatives have absolutely convinced themselves that, for instance, showing the White House with a bunch of watermelons in front isn't racist. A picture of AF 1 with the tail-number changed to N1663R isn't racist. Even the white supremacists have convinced themselves that they aren't racists--they just love white people. You can say anything you want about black people. You can make whatever racist jokes you wish. But if you work with a black person you are de facto not racist.

The one thing I expect to see is that at some point over the course of the next Presidential election, someone at a Palin rally is going to say something. Either the warm-up speaker or, if it's a town hall, someone in the audience. It's going to be blatantly racist and it'll just slip out. The audience will largely applaud depending upon the venue and how fired-up they are. And then that politician is going to have to make a choice. Do they repudiate the statement then and there and thus piss off the base or do they just move on, letting the statement sit there without comment. I don't know what the statement will be, I don't know who it will be about but I suspect it will be about Latinos--although something blatantly racist about Obama has lots of precedent--but it's going to happen. It'll happen because conservatives have convinced themselves that nothing they say is racist and since they have spent the last decade talking mostly to themselves and the last 2 years talking *only* to themselves, they all think that everyone else in the country thinks about these issues just as they do. They're wrong. They're going to find out just how wrong they are over the next few years.

[Ebon]

Oh there is this really insidious meme on the Right now that liberals are the only racists. I absolutely kid you not. There is a writer, Mike Devine who wrote--I am not pulling your leg, I'll have to find the link to it--an essay defending Rush Limbaugh over the whole buying the St. Louis Rams drama from a year or two ago. Over the course of his piece, he relates this idea that liberals--who have no black friends and don't have black employees--are racists while a man who uses the n-word but has black employees isn't a racist. Yes, you read that right.

Here he is in his own words:

Many people would label a person as a racist for using the n-word, yet I have known many that use it, that have many black friends and hire black people and [treat] them well. Conversely, I know many, mostly liberal whites, who would ostracize people that would ever use the n-word, but who never hire blacks and have no close black friends.

I'm not sure how loosely he is using the term 'friend' here. I would hope that none of my friends would use the n-word. I know that any friend of mine who did and I heard them say it, would not be a friend of mine for much longer. But that is the meme. You can use the n-word. You can, it would appear, make any manner of racist statements you wish and not be a racist.

That's the meme, though. So conservatives have absolutely convinced themselves that, for instance, showing the White House with a bunch of watermelons in front isn't racist. A picture of AF 1 with the tail-number changed to N1663R isn't racist. Even the white supremacists have convinced themselves that they aren't racists--they just love white people. You can say anything you want about black people. You can make whatever racist jokes you wish. But if you work with a black person you are de facto not racist.

The one thing I expect to see is that at some point over the course of the next Presidential election, someone at a Palin rally is going to say something. Either the warm-up speaker or, if it's a town hall, someone in the audience. It's going to be blatantly racist and it'll just slip out. The audience will largely applaud depending upon the venue and how fired-up they are. And then that politician is going to have to make a choice. Do they repudiate the statement then and there and thus piss off the base or do they just move on, letting the statement sit there without comment. I don't know what the statement will be, I don't know who it will be about but I suspect it will be about Latinos--although something blatantly racist about Obama has lots of precedent--but it's going to happen. It'll happen because conservatives have convinced themselves that nothing they say is racist and since they have spent the last decade talking mostly to themselves and the last 2 years talking *only* to themselves, they all think that everyone else in the country thinks about these issues just as they do. They're wrong. They're going to find out just how wrong they are over the next few years.

Wow!!! Well maybe they will say some of this stuff that they don't think is racist to their so called "black friends or colleagues" and start getting some knowledge and/or ass whippings. Then we will see if they still think it's racist. You should check out the website http://blackpeopleloveus.com/ . It's totally fake but I think it's pretty funny and spot on.

[dreadgeek]

Wow!!! Well maybe they will say some of this stuff that they don't think is racist to their so called "black friends or colleagues" and start getting some knowledge and/or ass whippings. Then we will see if they still think it's racist. You should check out the website http://blackpeopleloveus.com/ . It's totally fake but I think it's pretty funny and spot on.

LOL! I'd seen this web site before and then completely forgot about it!

Cheers
Aj

[atomiczombie]

AJ - I think I just peed a little seeing this thread!


Ok - So can we PLEASE stop insisting that President Obama's birth certificate is forged? Because if you TRULY believe that the ENTIRE document recording system of the state of Hawaii is part of a vast conspiracy to help cover up a false birth certificate, you seriously need to be examined by a mental facility.

What is really interesting when you see people saying these ridiculous things is that John McCain was born in Panama, when his father was on active duty in the Navy. No one questioned whether he was a legal citizen. This birther movement is really a cover for a racist witch hunt. It goes right along with likening the Obama administration to the Nazi's, and Obama in particular, to Hitler. It is plainly ludicrous to make such a comparison.

[Ebon]

What is really interesting when you see people saying these ridiculous things is that John McCain was born in Panama, when his father was on active duty in the Navy. No one questioned whether he was a legal citizen. This birther movement is really a cover for a racist witch hunt. It goes right along with likening the Obama administration to the Nazi's, and Obama in particular, to Hitler. It is plainly ludicrous to make such a comparison.

Yes they seem to forget all those things or they never bring it up. I don't watch the news except for the daily show(where he does point these things out) and that's not "real news" but I would think that the media outlets that lean more to the left would bring it up. Maybe they did but I wouldn't know for sure.

lmao That always cracks me up!! He's a Nazi Communist Socialist Muslim. Did I miss an ism or an ist?

[Toughy]

y'all all got it wrong about Hawaii and Obama...........yes he was born in Hawaii.........HOWEVER...........Hawaii was not a state when he was born and the birth certificate Hawaii issued for him was forged to a date AFTER he was really born so it would look like he was born in Hawaii when it was a state and was born in the good ole U S Of A..........that is if you can find Hawaii on the map

geeezzzzzzzzzzz people..........where is your logic and practical reasoning..........

[MsDemeanor]

What is really interesting when you see people saying these ridiculous things is that John McCain was born in Panama, when his father was on active duty in the Navy. No one questioned whether he was a legal citizen.
Actually, just to make things perfectly clear to everyone, Senate Resolution 511 was written and passed. S. Res 511:

Whereas the Constitution of the United States requires that, to be eligible for the Office of the President, a person must be a "natural born Citizen" of the United States;

Whereas the term "natural born Citizen", as that term appears in Article II, Section 1, is not defined in the Constitution of the United States;

Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to Americans serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country's President;

Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the "natural born Citizen" clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress's own statute defining the term "natural born Citizen";

Whereas the well-being of all citizens of the United States is preserved and enhanced by the men and women who are assigned to serve our country outside of our national borders;

Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President; and

Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a "natural born Citizen" under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.

"...the bill was written and submitted by Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO), and co sponsored by both Democratic presidential candidates, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY), and Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL)."

McCain is a US Citizen because Obama says that he is....

linkyloo (http://www.politicsdaily.com/2008/05/01/clinton-obama-sponsor-mccain-citizenship-bill/)

[MsDemeanor]

How do we KNOW Hawaii is a state?
The RNC had their annual conference in Hawaii, so it must be a state.

[Gayla]

I've always heard that children born to active duty personnel serving out of the country were considered "natural born citizens". Is that not true? Or does it only count if the birth happened on a military base? Are military bases located outside the U.S. considered "U.S. soil" or does that only count for ships? (And is it even really true for ships or just something I heard on NCIS?)

[Apocalipstic]

Want to know what's really scary? I have never actually watched a full episode of his show! I tried--sweet and sour Jesus I tried--and couldn't make it past the third commercial break it was so painful.

Jesus is a gummy?

What is really interesting when you see people saying these ridiculous things is that John McCain was born in Panama, when his father was on active duty in the Navy. No one questioned whether he was a legal citizen. This birther movement is really a cover for a racist witch hunt. It goes right along with likening the Obama administration to the Nazi's, and Obama in particular, to Hitler. It is plainly ludicrous to make such a comparison.

I asked someone who was comparing President Obama to Hitler how that worked, and apparently for him there is a liberal-conservative line which somehow ends up with Fascism being uber liberal right along with Stalinist Communism. :blink: Stalin and Hitler??? Blazing liberals....somehow.

Yep Senator McCain was born in the Canal Zone, land we (the US, not BFP) appropriated from Columbia.

y'all all got it wrong about Hawaii and Obama...........yes he was born in Hawaii.........HOWEVER...........Hawaii was not a state when he was born and the birth certificate Hawaii issued for him was forged to a date AFTER he was really born so it would look like he was born in Hawaii when it was a state and was born in the good ole U S Of A..........that is if you can find Hawaii on the map

geeezzzzzzzzzzz people..........where is your logic and practical reasoning..........

Cause the news people sure can't find Hawaii on a map, they have it off Ecuador in what I thought were the Galapagos. Is it possible Hawaii can be moved like the Island on Lost? and if so, how would the Constitution apply?

and

I was flipping through the Constitution this morning looking for the part where it is required that the President don scuba gear and fix any offshore oil leaks....is it maybe a part of the Mayflower Compact and not the Constitution? and if so, would it be Constitutional to expect such?

[Apocalipstic]

I've always heard that children born to active duty personnel serving out of the country were considered "natural born citizens". Is that not true? Or does it only count if the birth happened on a military base? Are military bases located outside the U.S. considered "U.S. soil" or does that only count for ships? (And is it even really true for ships or just something I heard on NCIS?)

And what about at airports in the part before you go through Immigration?

[Linus]

How about this political myth: re-writing your campaign website (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/01/sharron-angle-tea-party-a_n_632958.html) to appear more moderate midway through the campaign will help hid your tinfoil hat... NOT!

[Cowboi]

I've always heard that children born to active duty personnel serving out of the country were considered "natural born citizens". Is that not true? Or does it only count if the birth happened on a military base? Are military bases located outside the U.S. considered "U.S. soil" or does that only count for ships? (And is it even really true for ships or just something I heard on NCIS?)



Children born out of country to Military personel actually have dual citizenship. At the age of 18 they can choose which country they want.

[Apocalipstic]

Children born out of country to Military personnel actually have dual citizenship. At the age of 18 they can choose which country they want.

That happens for any child of US parents born out of the US (ei. missionaries, business people, baby stealers), but would this affect being able to be electable as President?

As I understand it, the Canal Zone as well as Guam, Puerto Rico and other us "protectorates" (colonies) are considered US soil. I think US bases are too. Now a baby dropped at JFK Airport before the border while in line to go through Immigration? not so sure. I mean it could happen...right? I think we should clarify!

In other news, skindiving as a Presidential requirement is not in the King James version of the bible either....I am still searching.

And, no new on the possibility that Jesus was a Gummy, though I do have photos taken recently in the British Museum that prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster predates Christ. Not sure how this affects "One Nation Under God" but wanted to keep you all in the loop.

[Apocalipstic]

How about this political myth: re-writing your campaign website (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/01/sharron-angle-tea-party-a_n_632958.html) to appear more moderate midway through the campaign will help hid your tinfoil hat... NOT!


Has she perhaps been "born again" as an Evangelical Texan?
:glasses:

[Apocalipstic]

I've always heard that children born to active duty personnel serving out of the country were considered "natural born citizens". Is that not true? Or does it only count if the birth happened on a military base? Are military bases located outside the U.S. considered "U.S. soil" or does that only count for ships? (And is it even really true for ships or just something I heard on NCIS?)

Ohhh, I missed the ships part, interesting since most if not all US owned Cruise Ships are actually registered out of the Bahamas or Liberia to circumvent US laws (pun intended).

Maybe they carry a small box of Good o'le USA dirt for birthing opportunities? or do just US Military vessels count?

[UofMfan]

Children born out of country to Military personel actually have dual citizenship. At the age of 18 they can choose which country they want.

I found this interesting in many ways. First, they don't have to choose, you can keep dual citizenship. My entire family has dual citizenship.

What needs to be clarified is that any child born to a US Citizen, no mater where, has a right to citizenship, all that has to be done is the paperwork.

To be able to become a US President though, you HAVE to be born in US soil or soil considered to be US. A great example and one that baffles me since the Birthers don't seem to go all up in arms about it (maybe because he is white?) is that John McCain was born in the US Canal Zone in Panama, so he is considered to have been born in US soil. If anyone's birth place had to be questioned to be eligible for the Presidency is his.

[dreadgeek]

How about this political myth: re-writing your campaign website (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/01/sharron-angle-tea-party-a_n_632958.html) to appear more moderate midway through the campaign will help hid your tinfoil hat... NOT!

It's funny that some politicians behave as if this is still 1967. Back then, you could say something foolish and unless the local or national media was on hand to catch it, it would disappear into the memory hole within 48 hours. They seem to not get it that YouTube is forever, and the crap you said back in 2007 is still on the Internet somewhere. The changing of websites is just hilarious as if people can't take screenshots of your web site. It is just hilarious to me.

Cheers
Aj

[Cowboi]

That happens for any child of US parents born out of the US (ei. missionaries, business people, baby stealers), but would this affect being able to be electable as President?

As I understand it, the Canal Zone as well as Guam, Puerto Rico and other us "protectorates" (colonies) are considered US soil. I think US bases are too. Now a baby dropped at JFK Airport before the border while in line to go through Immigration? not so sure. I mean it could happen...right? I think we should clarify!

In other news, skindiving as a Presidential requirement is not in the King James version of the bible either....I am still searching.

And, no new on the possibility that Jesus was a Gummy, though I do have photos taken recently in the British Museum that prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster predates Christ. Not sure how this affects "One Nation Under God" but wanted to keep you all in the loop.




OMG!!! The Flying Spagetti Monster!!!!!!