"Is This the End of the World?"

[Daywalker]

I'd like to share this article,
and then hopefully hear some input.
The title of this thread is soley based upon the title of this Article

:yeahthat:

The delivery tone of the article is half amusing...the
Topic more intriquet than all of us put together.

We've all heard about most of these headlines.

I'd like to hear what's been going on in your minds
when these images and words are thrown before you.

:scarytv:

In the spirit of welcoming all voices to table,
I'd like that this Topic to be allowed to flow
many directions, if at all possible.
:thinking:

This means Conspiracy Theories, Religious
views, Skeptism, Paranormals, etc...are all welcome.

:tinfoil:
As absurd as some things sound, to not give an ear to all possiblities
is to miss the opportunity to discuss things we may never
have given thought to in the past.

P.S. Dear Planeteers & Admins of Groovy Community Fuckery ~ I did not
know if this should be in the Red Zone, what do you all think?

With that said, here is the Article:






Is This the End of the World? (http://gawker.com/5725552/is-this-the-end-of-the-world)

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2011/01/500x_enddays.jpg (http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2011/01/enddays.jpg)The new year has arrived and it is awful, what with bird/fish/crab death, floods, freezing temperatures, and zombie ex-Vice Presidents. So let's just put it all out there and list the reasons why this is already the worst year ever.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgBirds have been dying off all week. There were the original gangsters in Arkansas (http://gawker.com/5722943/dont-worry-about-those-1000-dead-birds-that-fell-from-the-sky), then their copycats in Louisiana (http://gawker.com/5724490/another-flock-of-dead-birds-has-fallen-out-of-the-sky). And now there's a threepeat in East Texas (http://www.ktre.com/global/story.asp?s=13787277) and a fourpeat in Kentucky (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KY_DEAD_BIRDS_KYOL-?SITE=KYBOW&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT).
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgNot to be outdone by their mortal enemies, fish have decided to die in vast numbers just like the birds. In God-cursed Arkansas (http://gawker.com/5723090/arkansas-river-blanketed-with-100000-dead-fish) and Satan-blessed Florida (http://www.wftv.com/news/26367953/detail.html). I know this is a common occurrence (http://www.google.com/archivesearch?as_user_ldate=1960&as_user_hdate=2011&q=%22bird+die-off%22&scoring=a&q=%22bird+die-off%22&lnav=od&btnG=Go) or whatever, but still.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgAnd what's with the more than 40,000 crabs that have washed up on English beaches (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/916503--40-000-crabs-join-slew-of-animal-death-mysteries) in recent days? They died of hypothermia, so it's probably a sign that all the ice caps are still melting, making the water colder, and soon we'll be battling computerwolves alongside Jake Gyllenhaal. (Doesn't sound too bad, actually.)
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgThe terrible flood waters (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/01/world/asia/01australia.html?ref=asia) in Australia apparently contain lots of poisonous snakes and crocodiles (http://news.discovery.com/animals/floods-unleash-spiders-snakes-and-crocodiles.html). But not dead ones. Living, biting ones. So that's great for everyone.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgRivers are turning green (http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/12/30/victoria-river-mysteriously-turns-bright-green/) for no reason. (Update: Oh, phew. It looks like this was just a prank (http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/canada/Goldstream+green+river+blamed+prank/4045124/story.html). Maybe everything else is too??)
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgThe bumblebees are pretty much all gone (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2011/1/4/933430/-U.S-Bumble-bee-Population-Implodes,-Drops-96) at this point.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgIn non-animal related bad news, the 112th Congress starts school today (http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/01/05/pelosi.boehner/index.html?hpt=C1), with a John Boehner-led Republican House that is hell-bent on taking away your health care and injecting you with yellow fever.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgOh, and speaking of evil Republicans, inhuman monster Dick Cheney (http://gawker.com/tag/dickcheney/) has no pulse (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/05/us/politics/05cheney.html?ref=politics) but is still trucking along, writing books and sporting a new lease on not-life. Meanwhile his underworld bride who will reign with him for a thousand years after the Great Fires, Michele Bachmann (http://gawker.com/tag/michelebachmann/), might run for president (http://gawker.com/5725463/michele-bachmann-for-president). Terrific.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgA guy in a wheelchair was shot by police (http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2011/01/video-san-francisco-police-shooting-man-wheelchair) in San Francisco (http://gawker.com/tag/sanfrancisco/).
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgIt's really cold. There was snow in LA on Monday! And in Las Vegas, too!
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgOther awful, non-Congress things that are back this week? The Bachelor (http://news.bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view/20110105bachelor_gal__makes_a_splash/srvc=home&position=also) and radical Iraqi cleric Moktada al-Sadr (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/world/middleeast/06iraq.html?ref=world). Coincidence? I think not.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2011/01/arrowsmnew.jpgOh look. Lots and lots more dead fish (http://guanabee.com/2011/01/100-tons-dead-fish-brazil).
Jim Carrey (http://gawker.com/tag/jimcarrey/) got old (http://popwatch.ew.com/2011/01/05/jim-carreys-snl-promo). That's not a huge tragedy, but, y'know. Time.
[Image via Shutterstock (http://shutterstock.com)]
Send an email to Richard Lawson, the author of this post, at richardl@gawker.com.

http://gawker.com/5725552/is-this-the-end-of-the-world

:daywalker:

[Diva]

Swedish birds fell to earth, too.

I think it's aliens.

[Daywalker]

Swedish birds fell to earth, too.

I think it's aliens.

:sunglass:
They were 'scheduled' to be here in 2010.
:|

Source: Sylvia Browne ~ Predictions ~ The Next 100 Years

:alieninjar:

This theory is larger than some think at first glance.
I have a few head tilting thoughts I've been marinating on.
:coffee:

Frankly, I'm slightly bewildered that the very short time between some
of these Events has not drawn as much World reaction as I would have imagined.


:daywalker:

[Medusa]

Where is AJ?!!!!!! :)

I just read where penguins were dying??

[betenoire]

Oh god! Not Penguins. :(

Now I'm all upset. I mean, I was "concerned" before, but now I'm mortified.

[JustJo]

Swedish birds fell to earth, too.

I think it's aliens.

I blame Sarah Palin.

And, since she's an alien....this makes sense. :cheesy:

[Passionaria]

:praying: I was talking to a Native American Man in Fiesta this afternoon, and he was saying how he was raised in Arkansas. He said the bird deaths reminded him of a day when the sky turned green from the Nuclear reactors near there which have had nuclear accidents in the past...... Made me wonder.

[dixie]

Personally, I'm going with aliens, nuclear side effects and environmental, all of which at full scale are being covered up by government and religious sects in their neverending battle to control the masses. That is my conspiracy theory... :|

[pajama]

Personally, I'm going with aliens, nuclear side effects and environmental, all of which at full scale are being covered up by government and religious sects in their neverending battle to control the masses. That is my conspiracy theory... :|


Oh good. I was a little worried that my talk of aliens this weekend might have made me seem wierd. Now I see that I fit right in and am again...perfect for you. ;)

[Daywalker]

Turtle Doves...thousands falling from the sky in Italy.

:|

On Wednesday, GeaPress (http://www.GeaPress.org) reported hundreds -- possibly thousands -- of dead and dying birds in Italy (http://www.geapress.org/ambiente/faenza-la-pioggia-delle-tortore-morte-si-colora-di-blu/10343). Countless turtle doves were found scattered in the streets, in flower beds and hanging tragically from trees "like Christmas balls" in the town of Faenza. Many of the birds that fell dead from the sky (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/thousands-of-dead-doves-fall-from-the-sky-in-italy) were discovered with a mysterious blue stain in their beaks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/06/birds-dying-in-italy-thou_n_805541.html?ref=fb&src=sp

:vigil:

:daywalker:

[MsDemeanor]

I'm going to blame the 112th Congress.

[Kobi]

Coming Soon

To

A

Theater

Near

You


"Aquaflockalypse Now"



Seriously tho, I wish whoever is doing whatever
would do it to politicians, lawyers, and bankers
rather than birds and fish.

[Glenn]

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/01/10-leading-theories-for-dead-birds-and.html The 10 leading theories.

[gaea]

Well i found the thread and i will follow it. Interesting conversation and theories last night...

So it wasn't really the fireworks after all??? perhaps it was just easier for me to think that then anything else....

Perhaps some are just too frightened of the whole "end of the world" thingy after all our fascination with it in the theater is just that fascination and not reality....Humans are mostly too vain to think that there is a possibility of demise..

Dinosaurs were around a long long time they didnt mess with things the way human do and they were eradicated...

[gaea]

Comes to mind as does several other "movies" that have been made....leads me to question this

"Your words, your karma, your actions, your karma"

Movies about the end of the world, "The Birds" i believe was made before my time and i remember being a kid and it scaring the living daylights out of me...not so funny now...

Has Humans in general created their own Karma? Perhaps?

Have Humans been given the gifts of sight therefore create these movies, written books, tv series etc???

Is it Karma? Is it the end of the world? Is it the government? Are we suddenly offing animals because we dump chemicals in the air every time a plane takes off(mercury is dumped in the air with every plane)....

Is it Aliens? Perhaps....

Perhaps those of us that can see....will have the world we want...a peaceful one...

[dreadgeek]

Well i found the thread and i will follow it. Interesting conversation and theories last night...

So it wasn't really the fireworks after all??? perhaps it was just easier for me to think that then anything else....

Perhaps some are just too frightened of the whole "end of the world" thingy after all our fascination with it in the theater is just that fascination and not reality....Humans are mostly too vain to think that there is a possibility of demise..

Dinosaurs were around a long long time they didnt mess with things the way human do and they were eradicated...

Ummm, about this last sentence re: the dinosaurs. You do understand that the reason the dinosaurs were wiped out isn't that they "messed things up" but because a rock the size of Manhattan hit the Earth about 30K mph (Mach 40) pulverizing a non-trivial portion of the Yucatan peninsula and tossing that ejecta into the lower atmosphere where parts of it came down as superheated material and the rest stayed in the upper atmosphere causing a drastic reduction in overall sunlight reaching the Earth. Understand that there was nothing living on the planet at the time that could have done anything about that happening. If we tracked a large asteroid inbound on a collision course with the Earth right now WE would be facing the same fate as the dinosaurs and that, in fact, if we lived in some mythical state of ecological harmony (read no technology not available to our Stone Age ancestors) we would have absolutely *no* chance of avoiding being wiped out. As it stands, we *might* be able to do something to move the asteroid but that is only a might.

Look, species go extinct. It happens. Species don't *do* anything to go extinct and it's not their 'fault' when it happens. The average lifespan of a species is typically a few million years. We may go extinct we may not. Some biologists say that Homo sapiens is 'extinction proof' at this point in our evolutionary history. I'm not sure I agree with that. But IF we go extinct we will not have 'deserved' it anymore than any dinosaur species did. Nature doesn't care if we thrive and it doesn't care if we go extinct.

Cheers
Aj

[Soft*Silver]

I am pretty amazed that we look outside ourselves for someone to blame for the death of nature...when birds die in hundreds and fall from the sky, we think the alians have done it.

its not them

why would someone travel all the way here to kill birds? Its not like THEY are bemused with video games and needed new targets so they flew to earth.

Its us. We are of this earth. We are living together on this earth and somehow, biospherically, the birds died of something....

is it the end of the world?

well, for the birds it is...

[gaea]

aj, I'm well aware the reason for the dinosaur demise(chuckles) my statement however gave way to a full on explanation one that is reasonable and logical.

although we aren't being hit by a 30kmph asteroid coming right at us that we can see anyway, we are being hit with something, and that causes fear and disturbances all the way around.

perhaps it's just something weird, perhaps 100 years from now we will have been the dinasaur.

[dreadgeek]

I am pretty amazed that we look outside ourselves for someone to blame for the death of nature...when birds die in hundreds and fall from the sky, we think the alians have done it.

its not them

why would someone travel all the way here to kill birds? Its not like THEY are bemused with video games and needed new targets so they flew to earth.

Its us. We are of this earth. We are living together on this earth and somehow, biospherically, the birds died of something....

is it the end of the world?

well, for the birds it is...

Well, for the DEAD birds it is. Birds have seen worse than this. Keep in mind that birds are the last living descendants of the dinosaurs. That means that birds have been around FAR longer than we poor chimpanzees. As far as aliens, it's not aliens. I'm reasonably confident about this. The reason is really straightforward.

Interstellar travel may be possible but it would be prohibitively expensive for ANY civilization. Let's take a look at the history of manned spaceflight as a comparative. How far have we gone? The moon. Less than a million miles away. In fact, not even half a million miles from Earth. Everyplace else we have explored we have not sent humans, we've sent robots. Let's take about the three big problems with ANY explanation for events on Earth being because of aliens. The problems are non-trivial and they are as follows:

1) Distances between stars
2) The speed of light
3) Number of stars & planets total vs. number of stars & planets with life

So we'll take this one at a time:

The *nearest* star is 4 light years away. The nearest star with planets is 10 light years away. If you could build a ship that could accelerate to the speed of light (and you can't*) it would take you four years to get to the nearest star and 10 years to get to the nearest one with planets. Since you can't build a ship that can travel the speed of light (I'll explain why in a bit) it may take considerably longer than that to get from the next nearest extrasolar planet to here. There are no planets in the solar system that can sustain complex life--at least none we are aware. The two innermost planets are way to hot (Mercury and Venus). Mars has no liquid on its surface, has a very thin atmosphere and is WAY too cold (thus no liquid). The outer gas giants (Jupiter, Neptune and Uranus) don't have surfaces. The only other object that might have life (and it would be very simple life at that) is one of Jupiter's moons, Europa. There's a giant ice sheet that may have liquid water underneath. But that's it. I'm not arguing there is no other life in the Universe other than here. We don't know that and since it happened on *one* relatively ordinary planet orbiting a very common star, it's reasonable to think that it happened more than once. Intelligence is SUCH a good adaptation that I'm willing to go so far as to say that intelligent life may be spread throughout the Universe. But whether that life can contact another intelligent species becomes vanishingly improbable.

The reason why you can't accelerate to the speed of light is that as you approach C the energy required to go any faster approaches infinity. Since you can't create infinite energy you can't accelerate anything with mass can't go the speed of light (light gets away with it by having no mass--photons are massless particles). Even if you could, for instance, wrap a bubble of space-time around a starship (which, technically, you should be able to do) and then accelerate that bubble of space-time to the speed of light (which is legal) you would still deal with the problem of time dilation. If you took off this minute in a spaceship capable of light speed and spent one year at light speed returning to Earth a year later (by the clocks on the spaceship) you would find that a *hundred* years had passed on Earth!

Lastly, there's the number of stars w/ planets vs number of stars with *inhabited* planets problem. To understand the nature of the problem of someone finding us, let's do a little thought experiment. Imagine that you are in a lifeboat in the middle of the Pacific ocean. You suspect that somewhere *else* in the Pacific ocean there is someone else in a lifeboat. You both have flashlights one of you is using a red-filter and the other is using no filter at all. You are both shining your lights around. Now, you are looking for a flashlight using no filter and the other person is looking for a flashlight using a red filter. So even IF you could see one another's light in the awesome vastness of the Pacific, you might not recognize it as being a signal from someone else in a lifeboat. To make things even more challenging, when the Sun comes up both of your lights are washed out by the brightness of our local star. This is the challenge facing us finding intelligent life on some other planet and the same problem they have finding us. The filters represent frequencies of light we might be transmitting on (they might be using microwave while we're looking for radio waves, for example). The Pacific ocean represents the vastness of space. The Sun represents ALL the other sources of electromagnetic emissions in the Universe (remember that what we call 'light' is just a special case of EM radiation---from gamma rays at one end to radio waves at the other, it's all just electromagnetism). So any alien species looking for us or us looking for them is searching for a flashlight, in broad daylight, while you're in the Northern Pacific and the person you're trying to find is in the Southern Pacific.

So, to sum up. The alien explanation--before we get to motivations for why they would travel all that distance to go bird hunting--runs aground on the shoals of the physical world. In order to chalk it up to aliens, we have to assume that aliens would have some reason to visit this planet (up until about 120 years ago there was no reason for ANY extrasolar civilization to even suspect that there was intelligent life on this planet--the first sign we were here was the first radio broadcast. Anything else that one could detect (atmospheric composition, say) would be better explained by natural forces. We also have to assume that in the last 100 years or so this species decided that old radio shows made us curious enough for them to come find us. We then have to assume that they could make a spaceship capable of traveling a substantial fraction of the speed of light. We then have to assume that they came here themselves instead of sending robots. Then we have to assume that they decided, for no good reason, to kill thousands of birds in random locations.

OR we could go with a more parsimonious explanation. Birds use the Earth's magnetic field to navigate. The magnetic field is just part of the electromagnetic spectrum. The Earth's magnetic field is moving at about 40 miles a year. You know what else puts out an electromagnetic field? Look outside your window. See a power line? That's putting out a field. As is every cell phone tower. The most likely explanation (given that a lot of the birds had blunt force trauma) is that they flew too close to a strong EMF source and got confused. Keep in mind that not only can the Earth's magnetic field tell you *where* you are (if you have the right wetware and software in your head) it can tell you how far above the Earth you are since the Earth's magnetic field decreases the farther away you are from the center of the Earth. But if you are being thrown off by a strong EMF in your vicinity and that EMF source is, say, 100 feet *above* the ground suddenly 'ground' may appear to be 100 feet higher than it is. All that needs to happen for this to get really bad, really fast, is for there to be a tower on a tall hill. The birds, thinking that they are only at, say, 800 feet climb to be above the Earth and suddenly they are at, say, 5000 feet. It's a LOT colder two miles up than it is at ground level. That, alone, could explain it.

LONG before we have to get to aliens as an explanation or even, for that matter, assign cosmic meaning to it there are very natural explanations available and none of them involve us facing extinction or the end of the world.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

aj, I'm well aware the reason for the dinosaur demise(chuckles) my statement however gave way to a full on explanation one that is reasonable and logical.

although we aren't being hit by a 30kmph asteroid coming right at us that we can see anyway, we are being hit with something, and that causes fear and disturbances all the way around.

perhaps it's just something weird, perhaps 100 years from now we will have been the dinasaur.

We're not necessarily being hit by *anything*. Let's say, for sake of argument, that the bird die-off is a function of them getting confused by EMF emissions. How would that be us being hit by something? We lack both the wetware and the software to be confused by EMF fields. We simply don't have the internal requirements to be effected by the Earth's magnetic field. Now, we may go extinct--although I doubt we would disappear in 100 years. Maybe a thousand. But let's look at our extinction chances.

Keep in mind that humans appear to be the product of a series of ice ages. When there are ice ages, a LOT of moisture gets locked up in the ice sheets. Large parts of sub-Saharan Africa become very dry. This forced our ancestors out of the jungle (where pickings became slim) to the savannah (where pickings were better but where there were also more predators that like chimpanzee tartar). Genetically, humans are what is known as a 'small' species meaning that there is *less* genetic diversity than one would expect from a population our size with our geographic dispersal. The only available explanation for this is that ALL human beings are the descendants of a population of no more than about 10,000 breeding pairs living in sub-Saharan Africa around 75K years ago. That means that at one point our species was *almost* wiped out and yet we weren't.

Now, keep in mind that when this happened there were no fishhooks, all tools were made of wood, bone or stone. There was no metalworking. No sewing. (And so no sewn clothing) No farming. We hadn't even begun domesticating dogs yet! Now, barring a nuclear war (which would probably wipe us out) or a large rock hitting the Earth (which would, if the past is any guide, take out most everything living on land larger than a house cat) there's not a WHOLE lot we can do that would make us go extinct. We could lose our civilization but that wouldn't make us extinct, it would just cause us to repeat the Dark Ages (which I would strongly prefer we not go through again).

There is one other set of circumstances, VERY far off in the future, that if we haven't gotten smart WILL spell our doom. All stars are a balance between gravity (which wants to pull everything together) and pressure (which wants to expand the star). As the fuel of a star is exhausted, it expands. When our local star reaches the end of its life in about 5 *billion* years, it is going to expand so that the outer edge of the star (the corona) will start at about halfway between our orbit and the orbit of Mars. Needless to say that the day THAT happens will be a very bad (and short) day on Earth. If we are stupid enough to have not gotten off the planet by then, we're doomed.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

:praying: I was talking to a Native American Man in Fiesta this afternoon, and he was saying how he was raised in Arkansas. He said the bird deaths reminded him of a day when the sky turned green from the Nuclear reactors near there which have had nuclear accidents in the past...... Made me wonder.

When was this nuclear accident? I tried several different Google searches to see if I could find a nuclear accident occurring in Arkansas and I was unable to find any mention of one. I went back and looked up every single nuclear incident--civilian and military--going back to the 40's and could only find *one* in Arkansas and that wasn't a reactor problem that was the explosion of a rocket with a nuclear warhead on it (the warhead didn't explode for reasons I won't belabor at this point but will if asked). So I then searched for green skies in Arkansas and couldn't find anything.

Can you reference an incident because, as far as I can tell, there have *been* no nuclear power plant accidents in Arkansas in the last 70 years and even if there had been, the skies would not turn green (This idea that you would glow green if exposed is a creation of science fiction. Any 'glow' you would see from a nuclear power plant would be *IN* the reactor and that would be what's called Cherenkov radiation but in order for that to happen, certain circumstances would have to obtain and those circumstances wouldn't be possible in open atmosphere).

Cheers
Aj

[gaea]

aj,

that was some really great reading.

although I'm a believer of other life within the universe I'm. not so
schooled on the science factor of the "air"space and beyond.

thanks for a great lesson.

still listening,

[JustJo]

Aj....I respect the hell out of your knowledge and your brain.

But I still think it's Sarah...sorry.

http://carbolicsmoke.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/palinalienbaby2.jpg

[betenoire]

Interstellar travel may be possible but it would be prohibitively expensive for ANY civilization. Let's take a look at the history of manned spaceflight as a comparative. How far have we gone? The moon. Less than a million miles away. In fact, not even half a million miles from Earth. Everyplace else we have explored we have not sent humans, we've sent robots. Let's take about the three big problems with ANY explanation for events on Earth being because of aliens.

OMG it was ROBOTS sent here by aliens to kill the birds!!

[dreadgeek]

So, given all the concern expressed here I thought I would acquaint people with just *how* resilient life is.

Depending upon who you ask there have been five mass extinction events and there appears to be one happening now.

They are, in reverse chronological order (I'll discuss the current one separately):

K-T Extinction (aka End Cretaceous or Cretaceous-Tertiary Extinction) --This is the one everyone knows about because it took down the dinosaurs. I've already touched on the specifics of the precipitating event so I won't review that here. However, the butcher's bill for that one was: 17% of existing families of animals. 50% of all genera and 75% of all species. Timeframe: 65.5 MYA.

Triassic-Jurassic extinction (aka End Triassic -- No one is quite sure why this happened although a rapid change in climate (runaway greenhouse effect) might be the cause. ~23% of all families and 48% of all genera went extinct. Timeframe: 205 MYA

Permian-Triassic extinction (aka End Permian or The Great Dying) -- This was as close as life has come to being wiped out on this planet. Again, we're not certain why but whatever it was it was huge. 57% of all families, 83% of all genera, as much as 96% of all marine species and about 70% of all land species. Timeframe: 251 MYA

Late Devonian extinction -- 19% of all families, 50% of all genera. Timeframe: 360 - 375 MYA

Ordivician-Silurian extinction -- 27% of all families and 57% of all genera. Timeframe: 440 - 450 MYA

Now, we appear to be in the middle of a sixth great extinction which is doing a lot of damage to the mammals. We are the cause of it. But I want folks to put this in perspective. We are not going to wipe life out on this planet. We could, at our worst, do it a VERY nasty blow but I doubt we could wipe it out. What we are doing now is not going to wipe out life on this planet.

What's more, extinctions--while not good things aren't bad things either. If it weren't for the K-T extinction you and I would not be here. Before that event, mammals were tiny shrew-like animals that were tasty for some of the smaller raptor-like dinosaurs. When they went away, mammals flourished. If we managed to wipe ourselves out then some OTHER species would, in the fullness of time, become dominant. It might even become dominant for the same reasons we did--in other words because they evolved high intelligence. (My bet would be on the cephalopods since they are already VERY smart)

The point I'm driving at here is that perhaps we should all take a few deep breaths. Are there reasons for concern? Yes. Are there reasons for fear? Probably not. Are there reasons to believe that nature is having some revenge or aliens are causing mischief? None what-so-ever. I'm not arguing for license to eat, drink, make merry and pollute because that would be foolish. I AM arguing that life is far more resilient than most people give it credit for and that life has seen FAR worse than anything we Homo sapiens have been able to come up with yet.

Cheers
Aj

[JustJo]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4239386221_5a7277d5c8.jpg

[IrishGrrl]

ok, it's pick AJ's brain time for me! LOL

In reading your posts (and this is way off topic..I wish you would start a tread of your own so I could ask all this crazy shit) you mentioned us going to the moon. Laugh if you will people, but I did alot of reading about the conspiricytheory saying we DIDNT go to the moon. Many reasons why. Including that we apparently did not have the technology THEN , and still dont NOW? And what about those rocks AJ? And the flag ?

curious,
Irish

[dreadgeek]

ok, it's pick AJ's brain time for me! LOL

In reading your posts (and this is way off topic..I wish you would start a tread of your own so I could ask all this crazy shit) you mentioned us going to the moon. Laugh if you will people, but I did alot of reading about the conspiricytheory saying we DIDNT go to the moon. Many reasons why. Including that we apparently did not have the technology THEN , and still dont NOW? And what about those rocks AJ? And the flag ?

curious,
Irish

Okay, I'll take these one at a time:

1) Didn't have the technology.

All of the technology to go to the Moon had to be invented but once it was proven that rockets were technologically feasible (and that was already demonstrated by the end of WW II) it just became an engineering problem. What do you need to be able to get to the moon?

a) you need a vehicle capable of overcoming Earth's gravity. Certainly doable. That's just a physics problem.

b) you need to be able to seal an environment and keep it pressurized. We do that everyday with jets.

c) you need a computer capable of monitoring such a complex vehicle. Daunting at the time but certainly not beyond the realm of possibility. (If you have a smartphone you have more computing power in the palm of your hand than the computers on the Apollo spaceship. If you have a laptop you have more computing power in your backpack than ALL of the computers used for the Apollo program put together!)

Were all of those things available in 1969? Yes, absolutely. The Saturn V had more than enough lifting power.

As far as not having the technology today, that's bad comedy. We *probably* have the technology today to do a Mars shot, we just lack the political will to pull it off but even a trip to the Red Planet, which would be a non-trivial undertaking, is possible and largely an engineering problem.

As far as the flag, simple explanation.

The flag had a wire stuck through it so that it would stand up (otherwise, it would have just drooped on the flag pole). To get the flag pole into the lunar soil, they had to rotate it back and forth (if you've ever stuck in a tent-pole you've done something similar) the angular momentum of the flag pole caused the flag to wave. No wind or air required, all you need is for physics to work on the Moon the same way they work on Earth--and they do.

As far as the moon rocks.

They are *significantly* different than terrestrial rocks. For one, moon rocks have no water trapped in their structure--Earth rocks do. On Earth, volcanic glass is dissolved by water, moon rocks still have high proportions of volcanic glass in them because there's no liquid water to dissolve it. Also, terrestrial rocks have clay in them, moon rocks don't

Last one (although you didn't mention it) the photographs don't have stars in them.

The reason for this is quite simple was well. Remember that there is NO atmosphere on the moon so no means of filtering light. Sunlight on the moon is VERY bright and the spacesuits were white so that it reflected some portion of the light. So the astronauts were *literally* very bright. Any camera set for an exposure that would capture the very bright astronauts would not be able to capture the relatively dim stars. (Remember, where the astronauts were it was ALWAYS daylight.)

We landed on the moon. The idea that it was mocked up in a film studio is, in fact, actually far LESS feasible in 1969. You could probably pull off a film hoax of a moon landing now, but I doubt you could do it in 1969 and make it plausible. Even 2001: A Space Odyssey doesn't look particularly realistic in its moon shots and at the time it was made (1969-1970) it was the technological state-of-the-art moviemaking.

Cheers
Aj

[scootebaby]

[QUOTE=Daywalker;260167]I'd like to share this article,
and then hopefully hear some input.
The title of this thread is soley based upon the title of this Article

:yeahthat:

The delivery tone of the article is half amusing...the
Topic more intriquet than all of us put together.

We've all heard about most of these headlines.

I'd like to hear what's been going on in your minds
when these images and words are thrown before you.

:scarytv:

In the spirit of welcoming all voices to table,
I'd like that this Topic to be allowed to flow
many directions, if at all possible.
:thinking:

This means Conspiracy Theories, Religious
views, Skeptism, Paranormals, etc...are all welcome.

:tinfoil:
As absurd as some things sound, to not give an ear to all possiblities
is to miss the opportunity to discuss things we may never
have given thought to in the past.

perhaps i read this wrong,but my take on it was that Day wanted to hear peoples thoughts,speculations,and views on recent events....even if there arent facts to back them up,and without being told that my ideas,thoughts,views,and/or beliefs are wrong.

[IrishGrrl]

Thanks AJ!!!

guess I have to go tell the kids..

:seeingstars:

[dreadgeek]

perhaps i read this wrong,but my take on it was that Day wanted to hear peoples thoughts,speculations,and views on recent events....even if there arent facts to back them up,and without being told that my ideas,thoughts,views,and/or beliefs are wrong. [/QUOTE]

I haven't said anyone can't post anything here. But if someone posts something suggesting that birds dying MUST be the result of aliens, I'm going to point out that birds use the Earth's magnetic field to navigate and that this navigational sense can be thrown off by, for instance, power lines. I'm also going to point out that interstellar travel is non-trivial. That's not saying you can't put every significant event ever to happen on this planet on the plate of E.T., but it is going to give a counter to non-evidentiary explanations. If, in fact, the alien explanation is the best one then, eventually, it will have the most evidence for it.

In science there is this heuristic that is used called Occam's Razor. The basic thrust of the idea is this: given two or more possible explanations, the one that is the simplest (not the easiest to understand but the one that requires the *Fewest* number of conjectures) is most likely the one that is true. So ask yourself, which is more likely to be true?

A) An alien species has worked out ALL of the basic science problems to be able to build a ship capable of interstellar travel, actually built it and then voyaged here to a little ordinary nickel-iron planet orbiting a star of no consequence, in order to kill some birds so that the dominant chimpanzee-like species would become more environmentally minded

or

B) Birds magnetic navigational sense is being thrown off by a sudden (too rapid to evolve a defense) increase in *strong* electromagnetic fields causing them to either fly into buildings, fly into power lines or towers, or fly so high that they freeze to death.

Why should we treat A and B as being equally likely when one is far MORE likely to be true.

Cheers
Aj

[gaea]

So then it is a possibility that firewroks all over the world frightened the little birds to death...

then what about the fishies?

[gaea]

This is a great thread for me because of the brilliance being shared the theories as well as the all inclusive what do you think happened or is happening...

Great place for great minds alike..

AJ, Day and whomever else please don't hesitate to continue voicing opinions because I am enjoying the hell out of this even though Day initially frightened me, my mind is open enough to pay attention.

I really kinda of feel for the younger generations those that believe a tomato comes from the "store" in reference to heading back to the dark ages...i wouldn't be able to hunt however i can fish and i know my veggies and survival mode would surely kick in...isn't that ultimately what happens?

[Daywalker]

It's Alive!
:koolaid:

Ok, I will read back...and I have thoughts to share.
But first I gotta go to the store n get kitty food n stuff.
Perhaps I should stock up on Tuna...just in case?
:thinking:

:daywalker:

[Ebon]

I'm getting a little concerned.
What the Hell.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/10000-cattle-dead-vietnam_n_812224.html?ref=fb&src=sp

Wow I didn't even know about the birds in Italy. First the animals then the humans.

[gaea]

I'm getting a little concerned.
What the Hell.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/10000-cattle-dead-vietnam_n_812224.html?ref=fb&src=sp

This is explained via harsh weather.

[DamselFly]

i'm not a scientist or even science geek, but i like practical explantions when i get them.
*a curtsey to Aj*
since, however, there are more things than those explainable by humans, i'm keeping an open, ahem, dare i say, even skeptical, mind towards all explanations. i am trained as a Pyrrhonic Skeptic by trade (nomadic retired librarian who wants to read EVERYTHING) and am a Taoist/Buddhist by inclination and study. though i might not add anything pertinent to this thread (yet), i am reading, enjoying, and pondering what is here/not here.
*shuddering at the thought of Sarah Palin as ANYTHING in power, though wishing her enlightenment as a sentient (?) being*
Damselfy, lurking and drinking cha