only another butch would understand

[Dylan]

could you post a picture of your purse?

Here it is on my nightstand...you can see it next to my basket, and picture frame I made one day at work while on lunch. I like to carry all of my needlepoint supplies in my purse...with my lip wand.

http://vintagesue.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/purse.jpg


I'm Crafty Like That,
Dylan...also has some tissue box covers, AND you can see some other projects I work on while I have spare minutes during my day

http://toiletpapercovers.com/images/poodlegroup.jpg

Don't be jealous of my mad skillzzzzz

[Stoney]

I am so sorry you experienced this, Stoney. I don't know what causes some people to flip the switch like this. I will never get it after building up a trust, and thinking there is a very clear understanding about sexual-orientation and IDs. For me, the blow was that someone I loved, and who I never thought would stoop so low, did very much the same thing as we were breaking up. In that moment, it was as though I didn't even know her. Even though I went through this, it hasn't changed who i am. What has changed now is my complete lack of trust in getting involved. I will never—and i mean never—put trust in anyone again. The prospect of going it alone at 53, is not fun. But it is what it is.


Thanks for your comment and kind words on my post. I had a feeling you would get where I was coming from.
I am not sorry though that that happened, dont get me wrong, It f*cked with me for a while, but there were other factors in that relationship that really made me step back and say WTF am I doing here ?? why do I keep playing these games with people , I mean I knew she was playing it and I still didnt stop its like two people in a room looking at a huge purple girrafe but no one ever says anything they just keep acting , acting like they think everything is normal, just part of the script or something....


well The biggest reason I am glad that all that happened because it made me look at who I was compared to who I thought I was expected to be, The entire relationship basically was one lie after another, her lying to me and me lying to myself. Before finding a butch femme site I really didnt know there were " specific" types of butches, actually I didnt even know much about the whole B-F dynamic, cause most of the Gay folks I know arent really definable, I called em granola dykes, sporty dykes, kiki's tweeners, and they didnt have a clue, I mean I have alot of gay friends but virtually no self defined " butch - Femme" couples. jus' me... and that makes me weird, (just a little) around other couples. My friends when the rare ocassion arises they skirt around actually using the word. But when they do, it is always with an apology , like it is an insultlike " damn look at that , geez she is realllllllly butch and then look at me and say "no offense"?????????!!!......and its never like damn she's hot its more like ewwwwww, ya know what I mean?

Right before I got in that relationship I realized I wasnt
as weird as I thought , that other butches were like me , those who didnt want the same things reciprocated during love making. I remember reading about other butches who didnt want to take off all their clothes, who didnt want sex in the same way they gave it. I realized I was " stone".

That day changed my life, and so did the day she said those things to me, it took a little time and finally I realized that I was Trying to squeeze my self into a generic Butch definition and act in a way that I felt would reflect who I was.

I understand trust issues Ol' jet, yes I definately do,
but I honestly can say now I am no longer afraid to get involved, or "fall" in love anymore. I will not allow myself to be powerless over my heart, I have learned that I can make the decision within myself to love , or trust, or not.

I dont trust others to care for my heart, I dont trust them to make my life more meaningful, I dont trust the promises of Ill love you forever no matter what "(( NO MATTER WHAT???? )))) ( come on) I dont trust them to tell me what kind of person I need to be to keep ( or nurture) their feelings for me... actually I barely think about people Im with breaking my heart or cheating etc......or leaving me. I dont like liars, but......

Im glad that situation and others involving my heart and feelings have taken place because now..... I truly am free to be who I am , decide who I love , experience my bliss.

Not because I can trust others; because now... after all these years, I finally trust myself.

Create the life you want Ol' jet, we all play the game , act the part or whatever , but once we all realize we have the ability to pick and choose the characters or players, it is pretty darn hard game to lose. If you dont want to be alone, dont be, I mean, take that step, not with a huge futuristic plan in mind, not to look for a forever person, look for someone to share the day with maybe even decide to love em for a day..., then maybe the next and then maybe the next. one day at a time, you can love some one for a minute...not all love has to last forever .. (who the hell would want it to really?) someone who relies on another for their happiness......thats who.

Dont trust your heart with anyone but yourself.They have to worry 'bout their own, yours will always come in second. But love them the way you want to, for as short or as long as you want to.I never just " fall in love anymore..." I "step" into it stand with both eyes wide open, enjoy as much as I can for as long as I can . when its not fun anymore.....I can walk away.It is a good feeling to know you are the one in charge of your own happiness.

Much peace to you, Stoney

[Dylan]

I was drawn in here by the plethora of Poodles. I wish Dylan and I liked each other so he would send me one of his fabulous creations.

:crybaby:

Maybe I'll etsy them? Although, I do like the personal experience of craft fairs at the mall


That Way Everyone Can Partake Of The Fruits Of My Nimble Fingers <insert crocheting/knitting/needlepointing/cross-stitching emoticon here>
Dylan

[Cyclopea]

Thanks for your comment and kind words on my post. I had a feeling you would get where I was coming from.
I am not sorry though that that happened, dont get me wrong, It f*cked with me for a while, but there were other factors in that relationship that really made me step back and say WTF am I doing here ?? why do I keep playing these games with people , I mean I knew she was playing it and I still didnt stop its like two people in a room looking at a huge purple girrafe but no one ever says anything they just keep acting , acting like they think everything is normal, just part of the script or something....


well The biggest reason I am glad that all that happened because it made me look at who I was compared to who I thought I was expected to be, The entire relationship basically was one lie after another, her lying to me and me lying to myself. Before finding a butch femme site I really didnt know there were " specific" types of butches, actually I didnt even know much about the whole B-F dynamic, cause most of the Gay folks I know arent really definable, I called em granola dykes, sporty dykes, kiki's tweeners, and they didnt have a clue, I mean I have alot of gay friends but virtually no self defined " butch - Femme" couples. jus' me... and that makes me weird, (just a little) around other couples. My friends when the rare ocassion arises they skirt around actually using the word. But when they do, it is always with an apology , like it is an insultlike " damn look at that , geez she is realllllllly butch and then look at me and say "no offense"?????????!!!......and its never like damn she's hot its more like ewwwwww, ya know what I mean?

Right before I got in that relationship I realized I wasnt
as weird as I thought , that other butches were like me , those who didnt want the same things reciprocated during love making. I remember reading about other butches who didnt want to take off all their clothes, who didnt want sex in the same way they gave it. I realized I was " stone".

That day changed my life, and so did the day she said those things to me, it took a little time and finally I realized that I was Trying to squeeze my self into a generic Butch definition and act in a way that I felt would reflect who I was.

I understand trust issues Ol' jet, yes I definately do,
but I honestly can say now I am no longer afraid to get involved, or "fall" in love anymore. I will not allow myself to be powerless over my heart, I have learned that I can make the decision within myself to love , or trust, or not.

I dont trust others to care for my heart, I dont trust them to make my life more meaningful, I dont trust the promises of Ill love you forever no matter what "(( NO MATTER WHAT???? )))) ( come on) I dont trust them to tell me what kind of person I need to be to keep ( or nurture) their feelings for me... actually I barely think about people Im with breaking my heart or cheating etc......or leaving me. I dont like liars, but......

Im glad that situation and others involving my heart and feelings have taken place because now..... I truly am free to be who I am , decide who I love , experience my bliss.

Not because I can trust others; because now... after all these years, I finally trust myself.

Create the life you want Ol' jet, we all play the game , act the part or whatever , but once we all realize we have the ability to pick and choose the characters or players, it is pretty darn hard game to lose. If you dont want to be alone, dont be, I mean, take that step, not with a huge futuristic plan in mind, not to look for a forever person, look for someone to share the day with maybe even decide to love em for a day..., then maybe the next and then maybe the next. one day at a time, you can love some one for a minute...not all love has to last forever .. (who the hell would want it to really?) someone who relies on another for their happiness......thats who.

Dont trust your heart with anyone but yourself.They have to worry 'bout their own, yours will always come in second. But love them the way you want to, for as short or as long as you want to.I never just " fall in love anymore..." I "step" into it stand with both eyes wide open, enjoy as much as I can for as long as I can . when its not fun anymore.....I can walk away.It is a good feeling to know you are the one in charge of your own happiness.

Much peace to you, Stoney

WOW. What a great fucking post.
:thumbsup:

[I'mOneToo]

sorry, don't know how to multi quote but wanted to get both of these in. this is really long but i'll try to edit some thoughts.

Jet and Stoney, I'm really hearing the discussion that you're having between the tissues, laundry, and poodles.

People say and do crazy shit during breakups. We've all done it, we've all had it done to us.

If someone's switch flips off whether it's a direct attack on your ID or indirectly by choosing someone else the complete opposite of the way you ID, it's always going to hurt to lose that person. Because once she flips, she's as gone as a girl can get, as the song says. There's nothing you can do to change her course in life. The heart wants what the heart wants, and it doesn't want yours any more, and that's painful.

At that point, you *don't* know her any more. You can try to figure out where you went wrong, but there are too many factors out of your control to really know. The unpredictability of another's soul is an unknown. I think it's just pure stupid luck if people are compatible and can stay together forever. It takes a lot of work and if both can't meet each other halfway, it's never going to work. People think it should be easy, that love shouldn't be work or it's not really love. I believe the opposite. No one flips a switch in an instant, it happens over time. All the little things that weren't dealt with at the time it happened, move it infinitesimably downward and then *boom* out go the lights. Did it get suddenly dark? No, usually both parties ignored the obvious signs that the sun was setting on their relationship.

You're going to mourn the loss. And grieve over it, and gnash your teeth and shake your fist at god, the fates, or whatever. And one day you'll wake up and see that it's really her loss. She lost you, and you lost her but YOU haven't lost *yourself*. It's not you who changed so fundamentally. That is the day you can wake up and begin to move forward in life. You take stock of yourself and in doing so, you may realize she actually did you a favor because now you have an opportunity to choose a new life. And instead of having blind faith and trust in someone new, you've got these experiences that have tempered you and made you stronger. You can live now with your eyes wide open and ask the right questions and if you get the wrong answers you can trust YOURSELF to know that if it isn't right, then don't pursue it.

One of the greatest gifts is having enough life experience to know that you don't have to try to fit a square peg into a round hole any more. Nothing has to be forced any more. You're gonna be 53 whether its alone and angry or with a little bit of trust in yourself that you can use your wisdom to contain something besides mistrust and anger for the rest of your days.

Time is a friend, and an enemy. It's a friend when you've got lots of it on your hands and you can use it to allow your heart to heal. To pave the way to loving yourself enough to be able to love someone else eventually. It's an enemy when you make demands on your heart. Telling it that it's not getting you where you want it to go fast enough. That is how we end up rushing into things that are just wrong for us.

And so often, we confuse infatuation with true love. One or the other of us, or both. That's a malady of immaturity; that 13-year old crush we get. But we're not kids any more. That feeling may be what starts us up but can it get us through the long haul? That's where the work comes in. But before we're ready for crushes or anything serious, we have to grieve and heal.

I've been doing that for several months and now I'm taking some steps --well i took a giant step forward and then had to take a little step back and say, "you know, i'm not ready for a commitment." and that's okay. it is with her too. I've learned when I need to establish a boundary for myself and if the other person is not willing to respect that, then it's good to learn that right from the start. I have to value their boundaries in kind. I will never again compromise on my values, and boundaries are one of my most valued gifts that i give to myself and to others. If they don't want it, then they don't want me.

Guess in a long-winded way, I'm saying learn what your values are, and the ones you gained from your experience (no matter how shitty it was) may end up being some of the highest values you'll possess. That is a gift. She's never going to hand you a medal. You get that from inside yourself. It's your purple heart, earned the hard way -- that gift is yours. And it is enfolded in the petals of a long-stemmed red rose. That is what you will give to another, someday. That is, if you choose. Some may choose a solitary existence for the rest of their lives but going down a bitter and angry road will not bring any peace. Be at peace, at least, with yourself.

/end sermon

************************************************** ********
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Jet
I am so sorry you experienced this, Stoney. I don't know what causes some people to flip the switch like this. I will never get it after building up a trust, and thinking there is a very clear understanding about sexual-orientation and IDs. For me, the blow was that someone I loved, and who I never thought would stoop so low, did very much the same thing as we were breaking up. In that moment, it was as though I didn't even know her. Even though I went through this, it hasn't changed who i am. What has changed now is my complete lack of trust in getting involved. I will never—and i mean never—put trust in anyone again. The prospect of going it alone at 53, is not fun. But it is what it is.
************************************************** ********


Thanks for your comment and kind words on my post. I had a feeling you would get where I was coming from.
I am not sorry though that that happened, dont get me wrong, It f*cked with me for a while, but there were other factors in that relationship that really made me step back and say WTF am I doing here ?? why do I keep playing these games with people , I mean I knew she was playing it and I still didnt stop its like two people in a room looking at a huge purple girrafe but no one ever says anything they just keep acting , acting like they think everything is normal, just part of the script or something....


well The biggest reason I am glad that all that happened because it made me look at who I was compared to who I thought I was expected to be, The entire relationship basically was one lie after another, her lying to me and me lying to myself. Before finding a butch femme site I really didnt know there were " specific" types of butches, actually I didnt even know much about the whole B-F dynamic, cause most of the Gay folks I know arent really definable, I called em granola dykes, sporty dykes, kiki's tweeners, and they didnt have a clue, I mean I have alot of gay friends but virtually no self defined " butch - Femme" couples. jus' me... and that makes me weird, (just a little) around other couples. My friends when the rare ocassion arises they skirt around actually using the word. But when they do, it is always with an apology , like it is an insultlike " damn look at that , geez she is realllllllly butch and then look at me and say "no offense"?????????!!!......and its never like damn she's hot its more like ewwwwww, ya know what I mean?

Right before I got in that relationship I realized I wasnt
as weird as I thought , that other butches were like me , those who didnt want the same things reciprocated during love making. I remember reading about other butches who didnt want to take off all their clothes, who didnt want sex in the same way they gave it. I realized I was " stone".

That day changed my life, and so did the day she said those things to me, it took a little time and finally I realized that I was Trying to squeeze my self into a generic Butch definition and act in a way that I felt would reflect who I was.

I understand trust issues Ol' jet, yes I definately do,
but I honestly can say now I am no longer afraid to get involved, or "fall" in love anymore. I will not allow myself to be powerless over my heart, I have learned that I can make the decision within myself to love , or trust, or not.

I dont trust others to care for my heart, I dont trust them to make my life more meaningful, I dont trust the promises of Ill love you forever no matter what "(( NO MATTER WHAT???? )))) ( come on) I dont trust them to tell me what kind of person I need to be to keep ( or nurture) their feelings for me... actually I barely think about people Im with breaking my heart or cheating etc......or leaving me. I dont like liars, but......

Im glad that situation and others involving my heart and feelings have taken place because now..... I truly am free to be who I am , decide who I love , experience my bliss.

Not because I can trust others; because now... after all these years, I finally trust myself.

Create the life you want Ol' jet, we all play the game , act the part or whatever , but once we all realize we have the ability to pick and choose the characters or players, it is pretty darn hard game to lose. If you dont want to be alone, dont be, I mean, take that step, not with a huge futuristic plan in mind, not to look for a forever person, look for someone to share the day with maybe even decide to love em for a day..., then maybe the next and then maybe the next. one day at a time, you can love some one for a minute...not all love has to last forever .. (who the hell would want it to really?) someone who relies on another for their happiness......thats who.

Dont trust your heart with anyone but yourself.They have to worry 'bout their own, yours will always come in second. But love them the way you want to, for as short or as long as you want to.I never just " fall in love anymore..." I "step" into it stand with both eyes wide open, enjoy as much as I can for as long as I can . when its not fun anymore.....I can walk away.It is a good feeling to know you are the one in charge of your own happiness.

Much peace to you, Stoney

[apretty]

sweet! i can't even get Ez to hold my purse for a second!

Here it is on my nightstand...you can see it next to my basket, and picture frame I made one day at work while on lunch. I like to carry all of my needlepoint supplies in my purse...with my lip wand.

http://vintagesue.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/purse.jpg

[Galahad]

I think that what Stoney or someone,(I am getting lost in all the quotes) said about taking responsibility for your own heart is what rings true for me. I have that control. I can love and trust or not. It isn't up to someone else. They have their own heart to take care of. Step into relationships with your eyes wide open.

I am feeling right now that life is short, so enjoy love as much as possible and don't let someone else make you miserable. You have a choice. I walk away and shut the doors behind me often now. That's probably a wrong reaction, when what I think I want is one of those deep soul searing connections. Maybe that's for the younger ones. Probably I am just really lazy.

Ol' Jet, I think film noire dates us both. At 53 do you too remember fantasies of rescuing that cute thing and giving her your handkerchief. And having it returned all washed and ironed by her grateful little hand. Kleenex was unheard of. I don't remember it until maybe around 10.

Apretty, some people come into my life and have instant theme songs in my head. After about 50 years I finally found someone for this one.
Here you are Apretty.
YouTube- Christy Moore & The Dubliners - Black Velvet Band

[AtLast]

What else is there?

I'm guessing, car pool routine, trash and recycling.

Thinking about how folks from SF could write a manifesto on trash & recycling! One of the most regulated places for waste/recycling disposal.

[I'mOneToo]

the word "manifesto" is starting to become overused. if someone writes such a piece and it ends up in the Chronicle, they will probably end up being called a diatribe!

for trash and recycling, i prefer a more user-friendly (and media-friendly) term, such as "treatise".

p.s. if i knew how to start a thread, i would start one about garbage. is there one already? not butch-specific but for the planet masses?


Thinking about how folks from SF could write a manifesto on trash & recycling! One of the most regulated places for waste/recycling disposal.

[Stoney]

only a butch would understand..........a few of my peeves and thoughts

I hate it when before anyone addresses me if there is a question as to my gender ( Im assuming ) people imediately look at my chest.

and even more so, since I lost all this weight and I can tuck my tits in my waist band of my jeans, after looking at my chest they look at my crotch.
( and still get it wrong!)

I hate it when people I have only met briefly but realize Im gay say your the man right? I say um no, I am a woman which kinda is important to the definition of a lesbian isnt it? two women? is it not? and they still answer with yeah, yeah I know, but your the guy though huh?.......!!!!:eek:
to me its kinda like asking a guy you just found out was married" hey I bet you do your wife doggy style dont ya?

I hate it when I go to get a hair cut and I have to spend ten minutes trying to talk the hairdresser into cutting my hair like I want it. I mean I have actually walked out because she was "sure I wouldnt like it and just wanted to trim it "

oh, a question...... has anyone ever got an extra short haircut to save having to come back as soon? or because you simply dont want to mess with it?

Is running low on conditioner really gonna fuck our lives up that bad? if it were my cigs or her conditioner .....Id be rollin buts........if I didnt buy that pricey ass conditioner Id have money for my cigs....( cant ya just use more of the cheap stuff ?)

Have you ever wondered why she lays out a set of clothes to wear she puts them on, they look great , you tell her that and she will try on six more and when you finally pick the one you like the most she puts on the very first out fit????

I wonder if there is a physical reason that makes it that I can only rub her back about 1/10th of the time she will rub mine before my arms give out.


how bout?????premature ejaculation??( for lack of a term for bustin it way before you planned....I mean WTF ? Am I the only one. come ya'll 'fess up.does it happen to you?

do you naturally do gross things without thinking? and then you turn around and she is looking at you like she is completely repulsed?

okay the burping thing... Im sooooo guilty... It is a terrible nasty habit I have, if Im drinkin beer I burp, I DGAF if Im in a restuarant or a bar or drinkin with my pals I burp, I do it without thinking. I know I know it is gross.
( I secretly wish My stomach wasnt amputated so I could belt em out like I used to.)

why do I have to pick up all nails tools, car fuses, screws, paperclips handy little pokey crap and shove it in my pockets all day long, and why? do I take that shit out and put it in my next days clean jeans to carry around with me for no fuckin' reason again?

Why when people really really piss me off do I always threaten to whoop their ass? I am trying to be a peaceful creature really.

how do ya stop yourself from looking at boobs while you are talking to people?

why is it when we spot another butch do we
give off a vibe but really not make eye contact and rarely if ever smile o acknowledge each other?
how bout some feedback butches????

[AtLast]

Here it is on my nightstand...you can see it next to my basket, and picture frame I made one day at work while on lunch. I like to carry all of my needlepoint supplies in my purse...with my lip wand.

http://vintagesue.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/purse.jpg


I'm Crafty Like That,
Dylan...also has some tissue box covers, AND you can see some other projects I work on while I have spare minutes during my day

http://toiletpapercovers.com/images/poodlegroup.jpg

Don't be jealous of my mad skillzzzzz

Damn! I'm envious as hell!!! My purse is so boring and plain compared to this! nice mad skilzzzzz stuff, too.

LOL, I remember my late GF saying it isn't a purse, its a pack thing when I was looking for mine and would ask where is my purse? Hell, I bought it at a purse place!

[Stoney]

I bet a purse wouldnt hurt my ass like my wallet does.....maybe Ill have to check into that...lol

back when I was married I tried to carry a purse... I lost it and left it places all the time, the last time i lost it was like 25 years ago and I still havent found it.

[Galahad]

Stoney, there is much to think about in your post.
Haircuts, my mom did mine, but she has Alzheimer's now, so I use a razor comb. I keep finding all this great stuff on the ground too. I am trying to put it in my organizer once a week, but invariably I carry it around another day or two. Why is it though with all the screws I find, I never have the one I need and have to go buy more? The Boobs thing, I think to myself "look at the face, no, do not go there, think of their brain, we love their brain,dammit,think brain". It's important to me because I hate it when people look at mine for whatever reason. Still they are so hard to ignore.
Dylan's purse looks just the right size to carry a brick.

[I'mOneToo]

I use a giant fanny pack. It's black pleather, and I wear it at an angle, and off to one side, reminiscent of a pirate. Or maybe it looks like a squirrel on a strap.

Damn! I'm envious as hell!!! My purse is so boring and plain compared to this! nice mad skilzzzzz stuff, too.

LOL, I remember my late GF saying it isn't a purse, its a pack thing when I was looking for mine and would ask where is my purse? Hell, I bought it at a purse place!

[AtLast]

I bet a purse wouldnt hurt my ass like my wallet does.....maybe Ill have to check into that...lol

back when I was married I tried to carry a purse... I lost it and left it places all the time, the last time i lost it was like 25 years ago and I still havent found it.

Thinking about the Progressive insurance commercial with the guy and the european shoulder bag.... Too funny!

[Write14u]

Thinking about the Progressive insurance commercial with the guy and the european shoulder bag.... Too funny!

I'm quite comfortable with my wallet, even if it makes my ass look bigger. *grin* I do recall being about 18 and sneaking a six-pack into the movie theater the last time I carried a purse. Not a big fan of fanny packs but they are handy at times, like at an amusement park when you've got a million things to carry.
Dylan's stuff looks pretty dang cool



YouTube- Progressive Insurance Commercial - Shopping with Flo

[imperfect_cupcake]

I'm here to clear up the butch vs femme nose blowing issue.

when Inks and I walk down the street with snotty noses... I daintily plug one nostral and blow a short quick hard *phneh!!!* and snot rocket out one side, then plug the other side and repeat. (this also works well on the bike when the circulation starts going and I don't wish a crusty jacket sleeve)

The first time I did this, Inks said "EW GROSS BARB." then showed me the propper, polite way to drain one's nostrals without a rag. she blew her nose into her hand and then flicked the slot off it with a snap of her wrist while swearing in dutch.

I prefer my way. My hand doesn't get manky. But I'm all delicate and girly like that.

[Martina]

Have you ever wondered why she lays out a set of clothes to wear she puts them on, they look great , you tell her that and she will try on six more and when you finally pick the one you like the most she puts on the very first out fit????


Hi, i am Martina, and i am femme. i have three skirts and about six tops that i alternate among. On any given day, i wear the ones that are clean. i fuck femmes as well as butches. i can not do nails. Nor can i fix the car. If being a femme means you repair small engines in stilettos as so many of our threads seem to attest, then . . . .

[Blade]

quote Stoney how do ya stop yourself from looking at boobs while you are talking to people?

Shakin my head, do we really want to stop looking at them? Hmmm NOPE!

[MainelyButch]

quote Stoney how do ya stop yourself from looking at boobs while you are talking to people?

Shakin my head, do we really want to stop looking at them? Hmmm NOPE!

I'm with ya there Blade...

[betenoire]

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]YouTube- Progressive Insurance Commercial - Shopping with Flo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRecos7TcA0)

It is not top secret that I have a HUGE crush on the Progressive Insurance Commerical Lady. She is so hot! I love her hairstyle! Look at those eyebrows! I would totally hit it!

I haven't done laundry in nearly 3 weeks. No, I am not lying. Yes, I really do own enough clothes that I can get away with that. Yes, I know it's gross. No, I do not give a shit. I'm considering hiring out for that, actually. I mean, I can't -afford- it or anything...but if there was a cage match between "having milk in the fridge" and "not having to do my own laundry" the latter would totally win.

[apretty]

It is not top secret that I have a HUGE crush on the Progressive Insurance Commerical Lady. She is so hot! I love her hairstyle! Look at those eyebrows! I would totally hit it!

I haven't done laundry in nearly 3 weeks. No, I am not lying. Yes, I really do own enough clothes that I can get away with that. Yes, I know it's gross. No, I do not give a shit. I'm considering hiring out for that, actually. I mean, I can't -afford- it or anything...but if there was a cage match between "having milk in the fridge" and "not having to do my own laundry" the latter would totally win.

come visit, i'll wash and *iron* your laundry!
(ez loves the way that i iron his shorts, reminds him of his mom!)

[betenoire]

come visit, i'll wash and *iron* your laundry!
(ez loves the way that i iron his shorts, reminds him of his mom!)

I don't even own an iron. I refuse to buy anything that requires ironing. Ever. Not ironing my clothes reminds me of -my- mom.

So instead we could just go out and annoy people. Or get out dual-laptops and hijack threads and stuff.

[Bob]

I don't even own an iron. .

Hey, do you have a a Money Iron you could send me for my Money Laundering collection?

Oops, wrong site.

[MainelyButch]

only a butch would understand..........a few of my peeves and thoughts

why is it when we spot another butch do we
give off a vibe but really not make eye contact and rarely if ever smile o acknowledge each other?
how bout some feedback butches????

I just loved this entire post Stoney...you brought up some of the best thoughts! I am also curious about the eye contact thing. It's seemed to me that it's just always been so difficult for lesbians in general to make eye contact. Like if we look at each other something will happen, or people will "know" (like I give a flyin fuck if anyone knows!). but it is particularly noticable with butches I think...maybe that's because I am butch so that's the only real angle I have experienced it from. As I have gotten older I have made more of an effort to make the eye contact, and the normal little head nod that we all do. But it is a phenomena that I have always wondered about....anyone else got anything to say about the lack or avoidance of eye contact between us? What are we afraid of? Or what are we avoiding?

[Jett]

Hmmm, I haven't noticed it like that MB, running into other butches usually elicits a glance w/ enough eye contact for the slightest smile and brief head nod from both sides.

And w/ other lesbian types actually I can usually tell they're lesbians (maybe) by the pro-longed eye contact w/ that "smiling eyes" look thing on their face...

Maybe you're looking away to soon? Or maybe I'm not looking away soon enough... lol.

Met

[betenoire]

Hey, do you have a a Money Iron you could send me for my Money Laundering collection?

Oops, wrong site.

Lol, do you really need one? I'm sure between my FIVE mafia wars accounts that I've got have at last one. Lemme know and it's yours.

[DapperButch]

I just loved this entire post Stoney...you brought up some of the best thoughts! I am also curious about the eye contact thing. It's seemed to me that it's just always been so difficult for lesbians in general to make eye contact. Like if we look at each other something will happen, or people will "know" (like I give a flyin fuck if anyone knows!). but it is particularly noticable with butches I think...maybe that's because I am butch so that's the only real angle I have experienced it from. As I have gotten older I have made more of an effort to make the eye contact, and the normal little head nod that we all do. But it is a phenomena that I have always wondered about....anyone else got anything to say about the lack or avoidance of eye contact between us? What are we afraid of? Or what are we avoiding?

Yes, I have always found it weird when I come across a butch who avoids eye contact with me. When we do have eye contact, the head nod thing happens.

I have wondered if the butch type person that avoids my gaze is the kind of butch who avoids eye contact with EVERYONE (so as to not get that look of disgust we can get), and so when hy/she sees me out of the corner of hys eye hy just assumes me to be male. Subsequently, no "butch nod" occurs.

Don't know, but the above was a thought that came to me once...

[Andrew, Jr.]

When in public I acknowledge anyone who acknowledges me. It can be a head shake, or a hand shake. I always make eye contact with people. It is other people who have the issue with responding back to me. They have no idea of what I am (is that a boy or a girl attitude). I think we all go thru that pretty much. We just have to be who we are, and hold our heads high.


:tanning:

[Mister Bent]

Criminy!

It's back.

[Kim]

I like it (this thread!). Bumpbumpbump

[Mister Bent]

I like it (this thread!). Bumpbumpbump

And you claim not to be trouble.

[Kim]

And you claim not to be trouble.

Yes, I do claim that :)

Sooooo...Let's hear your butch perspective - eye contact, or no? :D

[Mister Bent]

Yes, I do claim that :)

Sooooo...Let's hear your butch perspective - eye contact, or no? :D

Only at the urinal.

[betenoire]

Only at the urinal.


*snort*

I'm only asking this question here because here is where I am and I am too lazy to find the appropriate venue to ask said question:

WHY can I not post a youtube video on Bob's usernotes thing?

[Bob]

WHY can I not post a youtube video on Bob's usernotes thing?

Because I've blocked you. You will torment me with sweater vest videos no more!

[betenoire]

Because I've blocked you. You will torment me with sweater vest videos no more!

*gasp*

OH NO YOU DI-INT!

[Queerasfck]

Yes, I do claim that :)

Sooooo...Let's hear your butch perspective - eye contact, or no? :D

It's all about survival of the species.

[betenoire]

It's all about survival of the species.

What happens if you do make eye-contact? You develop a bit of a swish, pass out, and wake up in a strange store buying strawberry lip balm?

[Queerasfck]

What happens if you do make eye-contact? You develop a bit of a swish, pass out, and wake up in a strange store buying strawberry lip balm?

No, cage match. Duh.

[Mister Bent]

What happens if you do make eye-contact? You develop a bit of a swish, pass out, and wake up in a strange store buying strawberry lip balm?

Cripes, no, it's worse.

After eye contact, it's the head nod, which can soon be followed by the knuckle bump. All down hill from there.

Next thing you know, you're (unironically) calling each other "bro" (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236).

Gross.

[apretty]

What happens if you do make eye-contact? You develop a bit of a swish, pass out, and wake up in a strange store buying strawberry lip balm?

no no no

it's BUBBLE GUM kissing potion.

http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/vermontcountrystore/f15058_set?&wid=250&hei=335

[betenoire]

No, cage match. Duh.

So, at what point during this cage match do you decide which one of you gets to pitch and who gets to catch? Cuz you and I both know that eye contact followed by wrasslin' is all about sexual tension.



Cripes, no, it's worse.

After eye contact, it's the head nod, which can soon be followed by the knuckle bump. All down hill from there.

Next thing you know, you're (unironically) calling each other "bro" (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236).



Where -is- Bob, anyway? I tried to call Bob the other day but didn't get an answer because Bob was cooking and apparently elbow-deep in breadcrumbs. Whatever the hell -that- is a euphemism for.

Gross

no no no

it's BUBBLE GUM kissing potion.

http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/vermontcountrystore/f15058_set?&wid=250&hei=335

NO NO NO! Lip Venom!

http://www.urbanchic-boutique.com/dhop/images/uploads/pinkshimmer.jpg

[Bad_boi]

That femmes are weird but I love them dearly.


(I am sure they think the same of us)

[BamaBoi]

i'm a butch and eye contact is rare when meeting someone new... i know with me i'm a lip starer... it's a subconscious thing i do.. and the more they talk... the more i stare at them... it's also good to test this out with women..cuz if they stare at your lips alot..they might be interested :P

[Blade]

To me eye contact is about confidence. I think anyone who knows me would say I was quite confident. I walk with my head up and when I address anyone be it with a nod or verbally I look them in the eye. When I shake someones hand I look them in the eye. The eyes can say a lot about a person. It doesn't matter to me if a person is butch or any gender for that matter, my confidence level stays the same.

[Hack]

Cripes, no, it's worse.

After eye contact, it's the head nod, which can soon be followed by the knuckle bump. All down hill from there.

Next thing you know, you're (unironically) calling each other "bro" (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236).

Gross.

Knuckle bump? WTF?

When we meet, it will be the leaping chest bump.

It's like butch ballet, man.

[Mister Bent]

So, at what point during this cage match do you decide which one of you gets to pitch and who gets to catch? Cuz you and I both know that eye contact followed by wrasslin' is all about sexual tension.


Where -is- Bob, anyway? I tried to call Bob the other day but didn't get an answer because Bob was cooking and apparently elbow-deep in breadcrumbs. Whatever the hell -that- is a euphemism for.

Gross

Apparently Bob won the cage match, but needs to be advised that breadcrumbs make terrible lube.

Knuckle bump? WTF?

When we meet, it will be the leaping chest bump.

It's like butch ballet, man.

Yeah. That's going to be a real graceful moment for two guys over 40.

Let's make sure no video cameras are present.

[Hack]

Yeah. That's going to be a real graceful moment for two guys over 40.

Let's make sure no video cameras are present.

Well, we can't do the leaping hip bump because my luck, my hip will break.

Forearm bump, maybe?


http://nbcsportsmedia.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050207/050207_canseco_book_hmed1p.hmedium.jpg


I mean, look...all the 'roid boys do it. Or used to, anyway. It has that old skool cachet.

[Mister Bent]

Well, we can't do the leaping hip bump because my luck, my hip will break.

Forearm bump, maybe?


http://nbcsportsmedia.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050207/050207_canseco_book_hmed1p.hmedium.jpg


I mean, look...all the 'roid boys do it. Or used to, anyway. It has that old skool cachet.

Here's the thing, the leaping chest bump kind of loses it's cool when neither of you can catch any air (greater than say, 4").

My sciatica won't bear the leaping hip bump, and we're both too young for hip replacement.

The forearm bump is AARP approved!

[nytangel]

The pain of hearing emasculating things from a woman because she's pissed. Is there anything more hurtful short of a breakup? *Opening a brewski waiting to see thoughts on this*:beerbros:

I've been through hell and back w/ my girl. When things were pretty bad I told her she was just trying to bust my balls. To which she replied I wasn't a genetic male and didn't have any. Took a bit to get past all that. We didn't talk for about a month.

Metro is so right that when peeps get pissed they will say really nasty things. She understand now my duality both male and female in one body.

I'm truly glad that we could work past all that and I'm even more proud to say that not only are we back together we're under 1 roof and more committed than ever to each other.

[nytangel]

I have been reading this thread and I wanted to mention a previous thread right in the beginning. Ol'Jet you said something about being de- masculinized.. ( forgive me if I am saying it wrong) I noticed quite a few people who felt that that was more or less a male ID'd problem. I wanted to mention , that many years ago I was in a relationship with this woman , ( who first represented herself as a femme but really wasnt ,anyways that's another story ) This woman was something else, the butch- femme dynamic in the relationship pretty much flew outthe window the day I moved in with her. that day, I left my home and friends, traveled over 600 miles,had no sleep for days, unloaded a 18 foot truck full of my stuff and my kids into a garage! plus the whole 9 hour drive in a uhaul ( on my birthday) well I just sat down after all that , and I cried.She walked in the bedroom and looked at me and said ' HOPE YOU KNOW k how much you are turnin me off right now, I dont think Ill ever feel the same about you. Some fuckin butch! If I wanted a femme I would have stayed with my ex.( even though I am female Identified I have felt that pain , maybe not the same way but It was a huge blow for some reason, and i was effected by those words deeply. I was always having to prove my " butchiness" with her .

the relationship was very short lived after that day

It messed with my head a long time after that relationship ended. and for a long time every time I cried, her words would resurface.

now I am who I am, I cry, I laugh , I Burp( alot and very well I might add)

now it seems crazy that I let those words hurt me so much and question my very being.. but I definitely had a different mind set back then.

hope this relates,

always enjoy your posts Ol' Jet!

Stoney

Stoney, thank you for posting this. I hate crying worse than anything. I am comfortable in my skin and with who I am, but crying still makes me sometimes feel less. I know that crying is a good release and its very emotionallly healthy to do this. But still that masculine part that dwells in my spirit gets so angry when the water works start. And heaven forbid if my girl can see them even in my eyes. It's not her that makes me feel less ... its me and my own perception / expection of and for me.

[Rockinonahigh]

Since my accident in 07 I havent had any kind of real job so I have made a fue bucks hear and there doing odd careting gigs,giveing rideing lessons ect.I got with this group that is run by the state gov and funded by the feds..sorta like an elder job placement group.I told them I had plenty of clothes to wear to work but they insisted that I go to dress for success..the problem is thay sent me to the womens part of it.I tryed my best to go to the mens dress for sucsess but no mater how I try to explane things to them it never worked,so I just went went along with it all cause I wouldnt be wearing them anyway..they r hanging in my colset and will be there a long time.Then they came up with this womens buisness club than meets once a month,then after the meeting u get more stuff.Where im intrested in the buisness concept of the meeting for the buisness world,I am feeling more and like im giveing up to much of who I am to gain this job.I need to work for many reasons so im just going to deal with it as best as I can ,but it still irks me big time.I hope I made scence with this.

[Greyson]

Since my accident in 07 I havent had any kind of real job so I have made a fue bucks hear and there doing odd careting gigs,giveing rideing lessons ect.I got with this group that is run by the state gov and funded by the feds..sorta like an elder job placement group.I told them I had plenty of clothes to wear to work but they insisted that I go to dress for success..the problem is thay sent me to the womens part of it.I tryed my best to go to the mens dress for sucsess but no mater how I try to explane things to them it never worked,so I just went went along with it all cause I wouldnt be wearing them anyway..they r hanging in my colset and will be there a long time.Then they came up with this womens buisness club than meets once a month,then after the meeting u get more stuff.Where im intrested in the buisness concept of the meeting for the buisness world,I am feeling more and like im giveing up to much of who I am to gain this job.I need to work for many reasons so im just going to deal with it as best as I can ,but it still irks me big time.I hope I made scence with this.

Rockin, I have been in this position. I think many butches, FTMs and others with a biological body that does not "match up" with the expected gender expressions, performance, appearance. It is easier said then done when you are trying to keep a roof over your head, food on the table and the other basics of taking care of yourself and maybe others. I have been to Shreveport and honestly I am not comfortable when I am there because of my gender expression, my obvious queerness. I cannot in good conscious tell you how to handle it. I have not had to live in your situation. I can tell you, I hear you and feel for your situation. However you decide to handle it, know that you are a human being of value and you are part of a larger community that reaches beyond the "norms" and values of Shreveport. Good luck.

[Corkey]

Rockin remember you are not your cloths, do what you need to keep yourself safe and employed. None of us are going to judge you, and those who do don't really matter.

[EnderD_503]

Since my accident in 07 I havent had any kind of real job so I have made a fue bucks hear and there doing odd careting gigs,giveing rideing lessons ect.I got with this group that is run by the state gov and funded by the feds..sorta like an elder job placement group.I told them I had plenty of clothes to wear to work but they insisted that I go to dress for success..the problem is thay sent me to the womens part of it.I tryed my best to go to the mens dress for sucsess but no mater how I try to explane things to them it never worked,so I just went went along with it all cause I wouldnt be wearing them anyway..they r hanging in my colset and will be there a long time.Then they came up with this womens buisness club than meets once a month,then after the meeting u get more stuff.Where im intrested in the buisness concept of the meeting for the buisness world,I am feeling more and like im giveing up to much of who I am to gain this job.I need to work for many reasons so im just going to deal with it as best as I can ,but it still irks me big time.I hope I made scence with this.

I think most butches/FtMs/etc. have experienced something like what you're describing at some point in life and can sympathise. I know I can understand that feeling you describe of giving up too much of yourself, and I think even those who don't id as such have had to endure that feeling at one point in life. Like others have said, deal with your situation as you think it should be dealt with. We all have to do the same. At the end of the day, staying true to yourself is what's in your mind rather than the unpleasant situations you have to endure.

[Rockinonahigh]

Thanks to all that replyed to my post,and I take your words to heart..Its just been a long time since I had to deal with this sort of thing..ya know I thought being it was now 2010 even hear, it would be a bit less of an issue..gess not.As far as my working situation It wont matter what im wearing to work cause im being issued a jacket to wear at work over whatever I have on wich will be buttondown shirts,and I am wearing dress slacks and appropreate comfy shoes.One thing I found intresting thrue all this was that they have a long full length mirror..well I havent seen myself in one for a while so I was surprised at the body changes from my work outs..I have turned into a weight lifters body so even with the exception of a bit to much belly is better than I had hoped for.