What influences the order of names in a couple?

[Kobi]

This came up on another thread and made me curious. We refer to our community as Butch-Femme not Femme-Butch. We usually refer to Medusa and Jack, not usually Jack and Medusa.

But lets broaden it. Why is it:

~Lucy and Ricky but Fred and Ethel?
~Meg Ryan and Dennis Quaid but Tom Cruise and <insert woman here>?
~ Howard and Marion Cunningham but Joanie and Chachi?
~Ross and Rachel but Monica and Chandler?
~Richard Burton and Liz Taylor but Liz Taylor and Eddie Fisher?

So, if you are thinking harder, think about couples in YOUR life, your family, your own relationship......is there a customary order for the names or are they interchangeable? Either way, what do you think influenced a particular order or an interchangeable order?

Is there a sexism component? A real or preceived power component? Does one just sound better/flow better than the other? Age? Tradition? Something else?

Inquiring minds are curious.

[scootebaby]

i dunno if i think real hard about it,but for me there are several factors...if i have known one longer than the other..what order sounds better to me..i know with Jo and I i put it like that,and even she puts it like that "Jo and Scoote"..as far as actors/actresses its just whomever i feel is more popular. Angie and Brad are interchangeable to me,but Bert and Ernie is not.

just my 2cents :)

[DapperButch]

I think that June hit the nail on the head for me when she said that in some cases it is a function of who I have the primary relationship with.

For my sister and her husband, I use her name first, for example.

In thinking about my relationships with same sex couples, I think it is a function of primary relationship, but is also a function of what I hear others call the couple, or sometimes is simply a function of what sounds most pleasing to my ears <shrug>.

These are my best guesses, anyway.

P.S. Most of my same sex couple friends are androgynous, with neither being more masculine than the other.

[Jess]

Same here regarding whom I knew first or have/had a primary relationship with. Guess I never really thought about it before.
I think Kobi's examples of famous couples is interesting in that for me, whomever was the more popular at the time, came first.

[princessbelle]

This is interesting and actually i can remember being a child and wondering the same thing. I can remember my mom and dad talking about my aunts and uncles and like you are saying..there was a flow to the names and saying them opposite didn't sound right.

One thing i figured out, at least in my family, we said our family member first and then the "married into the family" name. As in uncle david aunt jackie (David being my father's brother) or Aunt Faye and Uncle Kirby (Faye being my father's sister). That is one thing.

Then on the flip side if my concept is correct, the families of the "married" people would say it opposite.

As far as famous people. I know this rule doesn't apply ALL the time for sure but it seems the more famous the person or more prominate in a show that name comes first. It's just one way to look at it i think.

Elvis and Priscilla
Bill and Hillary
Pebbles and BamBam

Great thread.

[girl_dee]

Fred and Ginger, and Ginger was the one backwards in high heels.

[Daywalker]

We are often referred to as The Daywalkers or The Days.
:vampirebat:

Otherwise it comes out as Mr n Mrs Daywalker.

Primarily it is my social practices that brings this
about, as I may or may not be one chatty muther fucker.
:phonegab:

:daywalker:

[DapperButch]

One thing i figured out, at least in my family, we said our family member first and then the "married into the family" name. As in uncle david aunt jackie (David being my father's brother) or Aunt Faye and Uncle Kirby (Faye being my father's sister). That is one thing.



INTERESTING! I never noticed this before, but my family did the same thing. "Blood relative", first, followed by spouse.

[Kobi]

Its interesting to see the answers here.

In my own life I have similiar perceptions for the most part. A relative always comes before their spouse.

The person I know better comes before their partner. Sometimes, if I know them long enough, they become interchangeable.

The only exception, that I can think of at the moment, is one brother. His wife always comes first. And, for me, that is because she holds the power....no matter how macho he tries to be.

[girl_dee]

Well I can tell ya it's always bugged me that the " male " is always listed first on formal documents.

[Tcountry]

Well I can tell ya it's always bugged me that the " male " is always listed first on formal documents.

That links back to the "old days" where the male was the head of the household and therefore more formal documents recognize that...

Most of the time I just go with what flows better...or like others have said who I have known longer.

[JustJo]

Well I can tell ya it's always bugged me that the " male " is always listed first on formal documents.

I know that our real estate purchase contract and deeds....it has purchaser /seller...and my divorce documents (all 3 sets) say petitioner / respondent. Nothing on either one about male / female or husband /wife.

No doubt there are some that are listed as you say....but not all of them. :rrose:

[DomnNC]

Same here, in regards to family, it's the blood relative first then the married into after. As far as friends go I generally say the most dominant partners name first whether the dominant partner is male or female, femme or butch, etcetcetc, it matters not who the dominant partner is.

[scootebaby]

i also do it in order of respect...even in my family..if i respect the non relative more i will put their name first

[Andrea]

That links back to the "old days" where the male was the head of the household and therefore more formal documents recognize that...



During the 90's while working for a mortgage company, I had a closer (the person who drew up the closing documents) insist it was the law that the male name went first on the mortgage documents.

Ummmmm....... NO!!!!

Andrea

[EnderD_503]

In my family people also go by who is a direct family member. My mum has brothers and no sisters, and we always use her brothers' names before their wives, with the exception of the eldest brother. For some reason it can go either way with him and his wife. My father has all sisters and no brothers, so his sisters names were always used before their husbands'. Same with cousins etc.

As far as friends, I always use my friends names first over their partners, just because I've known them longer and am not usually friends with their partners as far as I don't really keep contact if they break up.

With people I met as couples, it can either be that I'll refer to the partner I talk most to, or they'll be interchangeable.

[The_Lady_Snow]

This came up on another thread and made me curious. We refer to our community as Butch-Femme not Femme-Butch. We usually refer to Medusa and Jack, not usually Jack and Medusa.

But lets broaden it. Why is it:

~Lucy and Ricky but Fred and Ethel?
~Meg Ryan and Dennis Quaid but Tom Cruise and <insert woman here>?
~ Howard and Marion Cunningham but Joanie and Chachi?
~Ross and Rachel but Monica and Chandler?
~Richard Burton and Liz Taylor but Liz Taylor and Eddie Fisher?

So, if you are thinking harder, think about couples in YOUR life, your family, your own relationship......is there a customary order for the names or are they interchangeable? Either way, what do you think influenced a particular order or an interchangeable order?

Is there a sexism component? A real or preceived power component? Does one just sound better/flow better than the other? Age? Tradition? Something else?

Inquiring minds are curious.









Well I am a firm believer we are more of a Femme led community.

As for the outside world outside of here, I think we are and should be a matriarch run world.

That's just my wee opinion.

[Daywalker]

Well I am a firm believer we are more of a Femme led community.

As for the outside world outside of here, I think we are and should be a matriarch run world.

That's just my wee opinion.
It's kinda funny, it just occurred to me that when
referencing you two I say "Snowy n Grant..."

Yet, in mah phone U are programmed in as Grant n Snowy.
:thinking:

It was cuz when U dropped yer other number n the new one
was the Florida...I figured U were using Grants phone.


:weedsmoke:

:daywalker:

[The_Lady_Snow]

It's kinda funny, it just occurred to me that when
referencing you two I say "Snowy n Grant..."

Yet, in mah phone U are programmed in as Grant n Snowy.
:thinking:

It was cuz when U dropped yer other number n the new one
was the Florida...I figured U were using Grants phone.


:weedsmoke:

:daywalker:




Isn't that a bit of a sexist assumption? It's my phone, the other is a work phone, and the other our house phone.

hmmm..

[Daywalker]

Isn't that a bit of a sexist assumption? It's my phone, the other is a work phone, and the other our house phone.

hmmm..

Sssseeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
:shocking:

Wait.
:|

I don't have yer house number.
:eyebrow:

Is this a trick thread?
:|

:daywalker:

[always2late]

Very interesting thread...and something I never really thought about until now. And, having given it some thought...I realized that the order of names is something of an anomaly in my family. I am of Italian heritage and, in my case, my upbringing was, I suppose, very "traditional" in regards to masculine and feminine roles. The males of my family were the undisputed "heads of the household", etc.. However, when we addressed my relatives, whether in written or verbal form, the female member of the couple was addressed first, for example, a Christmas card would be addressed to Aunt **** and Uncle ****. And now I am curious as to why this habit, for lack of a better word, came to be within my family. I'll have to ask some family members and see if they have an answer, or the curiosity will drive me out of my tree. LOL

[Julie]

GOD.. I don't know why, but a poster really got my girlie (at times submissive) panties in a bunch.
(serious)

It will always be Julie and Dreamer (just is).
Has nothing to do with dominance, submission --
I don't think this is the case at all.

Now I am annoyed and not really sure why - but it's almost obscene.
Who runs the fuck, is who's name takes headline?

[Julie]

Well I am a firm believer we are more of a Femme led community.

As for the outside world outside of here, I think we are and should be a matriarch run world.

That's just my wee opinion.

Of course we are more of a Femme led community. It is the backward mentality of the oppression driving forces of some of our misogynistic butch members - that believe otherwise.

Our history shows that Femme's have been the driving force in B/F relationships for years.

Spinning.

[The_Lady_Snow]

See your phone us sexist too!!!

Way to be an ally mother fucker!!!



Sssseeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
:shocking:

Wait.
:|

I don't have yer house number.
:eyebrow:

Is this a trick thread?
:|

:daywalker:

[The_Lady_Snow]

Of course we are more of a Femme led community. It is the backward mentality of the oppression driving forces of some of our misogynistic butch members - that believe otherwise.

Our history shows that Femme's have been the driving force in B/F relationships for years.

Spinning.



I don't give the hierarchy to "male" OR masculine in a heteronormative view of thinking. It's woman owned, femme owned, bossy girl, butch woman Top, Female led unless otherwise arranged be it by consent, abuse of power, sexism, machismo so on and so on

[Quintease]

I don't think I've ever put much thought into it, until now.

In my own experience it's either poetically more pleasing to put someone's name first, ie: Tom and Nicole is nicer than Nicole and Tom, to my mind at least.

Else you have some historical reason for the order, such as Tom was your friend first and Nicole was his bit of fluff. Now Nicole is your friend, but the only people who say 'Nicole and Tom' are on her side of the fence.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Why is it more poetic to place the guys name first?

[JustJo]

Echoing what many have said....I tend to put my friend or family member first...or the one I've known the longest.

...and, when I sign birthday greetings here I tend to say "Jo & Scoote", but when I talk to my friend Annie (of the Annie & Ron couple), I say "Scoote and I went to the beach" :beachkids:

[The_Lady_Snow]

Scoote and I is grammatically correct? Hence why I may say Grant and I or the boy and I other than that, I may use a Dominants name first in that surrounding (leather) cause Dominant then equates any gender so unless I have been given the green light I won't speak to said property until the ok is given.

[Kobi]

Why is it more poetic to place the guys name first?


I didnt read the original post as saying it is more poetic to put the guys name first.

I read it as poetic, meaning something just "sounds" better than something else in certain situations with the given example just putting the guys name first. Okay that explanation even confused me.

Let me try again. Fred and Ethel just "sounds" better than Ethel and Fred to me. And Lucy and Ricky just "sounds" better than Ricky and Lucy for some reason. I just dont know what makes one "sound" better than the other.

To me, both Snow and Grant, and Grant and Snow "sound" poetic. I thought it might be because they are both one syllable but that doesnt seem to hold true in all cases. Smith and Jones sounds better to me than Jones and Smith...that might not be syllables as much as familiarity with a certain order.

Daywalker was right....it didnt start out as a trick thread but...........:|

[The_Lady_Snow]

Um I'm not trying to "trick" anyone nor do I personally view this as a tick em and trip em thread, I was really curious as to why Ms Quintease found it " poetically more pleasing".

Hence why I asked:). I should of been more clear.

[princessbelle]

How about this one...

Mom and Dad.

Or do some say Dad and Mom?

Just sounds so much better the first way to *me*

Grandma and Grandpa vs. Grandpa and Grandma

Aunts and Uncles vs. Uncles and Aunts

it's so interesting...all of this.

I still think for *me* it is simply a matter of who i am closest to in the relationship...either family or friend.

[Kobi]

Um I'm not trying to "trick" anyone nor do I personally view this as a tick em and trip em thread, I was really curious as to why Ms Quintease found it " poetically more pleasing".

Hence why I asked:). I should of been more clear.


I didnt mean to insinuate you did. My apologies if it came off that way. I need to remember to stick in the :jester: and LOL's when appropriate.

It is fascinating to think about the things we do and why we do them. Sometimes we just get into a habit without really looking at what might be behind it, if anything. Or maybe we get in the habit because of other influences i.e. the isms, socialization, etc.

I do wonder why certain things just "sound" better than others. I'm thinking someone or some profession has had to have studied it at some point. Think its time for me to do some research. :)

[The_Lady_Snow]

Well your thread is and can be thought provoking especially for me cause Femme Led relationships in our community aren't prevalent and yet we (or maybe it's just me) recognize some Femme's first yet others not.

It's got my mind thinking A LOT!

[Quintease]

I didnt read the original post as saying it is more poetic to put the guys name first.

I read it as poetic, meaning something just "sounds" better than something else in certain situations with the given example just putting the guys name first. Okay that explanation even confused me.

Let me try again. Fred and Ethel just "sounds" better than Ethel and Fred to me. And Lucy and Ricky just "sounds" better than Ricky and Lucy for some reason. I just dont know what makes one "sound" better than the other.

To me, both Snow and Grant, and Grant and Snow "sound" poetic. I thought it might be because they are both one syllable but that doesnt seem to hold true in all cases. Smith and Jones sounds better to me than Jones and Smith...that might not be syllables as much as familiarity with a certain order.

Daywalker was right....it didnt start out as a trick thread but...........:|



All that. I used Tom and Nicole as an example. I could have easily have used Monica and Chandler.

[DapperButch]

How about this one...

Mom and Dad.

Or do some say Dad and Mom?

Just sounds so much better the first way to *me*

Grandma and Grandpa vs. Grandpa and Grandma

Aunts and Uncles vs. Uncles and Aunts

it's so interesting...all of this.

I still think for *me* it is simply a matter of who i am closest to in the relationship...either family or friend.

Mom and Dad

Pop-Pop and Grammy

Aunts and Uncles interchangeable based on blood relative being first.

[Gemme]

We chose GemmEbon because Ebogemme sounded ridiculous (and like a weird toy).

:blink:

[EnderD_503]

How about this one...

Mom and Dad.

Or do some say Dad and Mom?

Just sounds so much better the first way to *me*

Grandma and Grandpa vs. Grandpa and Grandma

Aunts and Uncles vs. Uncles and Aunts

it's so interesting...all of this.

I still think for *me* it is simply a matter of who i am closest to in the relationship...either family or friend.

Don't really refer to my biological father as "dad" so it's just "mum" for me. I suppose I could go with mum and douchebag...

Other than that:

Never called my grandparents "grandma" and "grandpa" either. But it was always mémère (grandmother) et pépère (grandfather) but occasionally it was pépère et mémère. Either way I valued my maternal grandparents equally.

In German it's always oma/omi (grandmother) und opa/opi (grandfather) instead of opa/opi und oma/omi for whatever reason.

In Greek seems like yiayia (grandmother) always came before papou (grandfather).

It's weird with aunts/uncles. In English I say aunt and uncle.

But in French I always say mononc' (uncle) et matant' (aunt).

Same in German (Onkel X und Tante Y vs. Tante Y und Onkel X).

While in Greek I would always say thea (aunt) before theo (uncle).

Odd...

[jac]

I have thought about this very thing before but for me, as with others, it's sometimes just what has been said by other people or that it just flows smoothly. I also agree with the idea that when speaking of family or a familiar name, a lot of times it's because the familiar name gets precedence. For instance with my three children, in referring to their relationships whether son or daughter, their name is first over their partner.

Another thing is order of authority, so to speak. In martial arts, the higher rank is mentioned first, or at least where I trained it was. I was taught in English class back in school that there are certain orders of introduction and so perhaps I kind of follow suit with this idea as well.

On a more personal level and thinking back on different relationships with other women... I always placed the other person first. Again, maybe it's that English class lesson "You and I" kind of thing... *shrugs*

[LaneyDoll]

I was running through a list of names in my head as I was reading this thread.

Most of my friends are D/s and the dominant's name always popped up first for me-regardless of gender, who I had known longer, etc. My lesbian (general term) friends are D/s so they fell into that group.

But, for my non D/s friends, it was the woman's name. Most of them are people I've known for ages. Incidentally, they are hetero.

Family is hard. But it seems to be the blood relative who I listed first-despite who I like better For example, Judy & Bobby (aunt & uncle). Judy is blood but Bobby (RIP) was my all time fave.

However, for my grandparents, I tended to list my grandfather first-but they were called by different "names" whereas my grandmothers were each called "Granny."

Now, for Hollywood couples, I believe that we list them as we are told to. We refer to them as "Fred & Wilma" because that is how the show did. "Lucy & Ricky" because that is how the show did (and she was the star).

This thread is extremely interesting; thanks for posting it!

:sparklyheart:

[JAGG]

I think it depends on who you are talking to. I know my friends and family will say my name first. I tend to do the same with them.I think that is pretty much the case on both sides. You tend to say the name of the one you are familar with first, that has been my experience. But when I am talking about us, I always put her name first .

[thedivahrrrself]

Typically with couples, as Laney said above, I go with the one I've known longer first. With those who I met together, I tend to go with the stronger personality, regardless of gender.

Of course, in any couple I am a part of, my name goes first in my head. Maybe because I've known me longer :winky:

[starryeyes]

My partner and I have the same name so we don't have this problem haha! We just call each other Lisa² so we both get introduced equally. Lol.

Smiles!