Femmes: How do you like to be treated on a date?

[Sweet Bliss]

The same as every other day.

courtesy kindness respect humor.

[Bèsame*]

~~~treat me like you really put some thought and effort into it~~~~

[silkepus]

I have always though a first date should be short with less pressure. Like just having a coffee something like that.

I would love to have the old school opening doors treatment, never have before. I would probably think better of the person I'm dating if they did, but I wouldn’t think worse of them if they didn’t. It’s more like an added bonus than a necessity.

And for the whole cost thing, I think the best dates are definitely free. I would rather someone took me on a hike in the mountains than on a fancy restaurant.

[willow]

I do not need to be the centre of your universe but I do need to feel at least as important as anything else in your life at this moment in time. Be respectful, be kind, be polite (to everyone). Regardless of what you do for a living do not take calls from work, we are either on a date or we are not. Do not check your emails, texts, facebook, or twitter. In fact, I do not want to see your phone at all. It's not about spending a lot of money, or any money. I'm perfectly fine with sharing the bill.

Talk to me.


<snip> I would probably think better of the person I'm dating if they did, but I wouldn’t think worse of them if they didn’t. It’s more like an added bonus than a necessity. <snip>


Definitely more an added bonus than a necessity. Just don't let the door shut in my face ;)

[imperfect_cupcake]

the variety is staggering in what people like.

what some people need I would be baffled by or put off from.

what I want, other people would feel totally unnecessary or completely not enough.

but that is the whole point of hanging out with each other: to find out and to see if it's a match.

for example - I don't care if people answer their phone. people have jobs that do demand an answer, the have kids or parents in care. They have other friends that may have an emergency (I was out on a date once and my ex called me in hysterics because her new partner was stuck in a very dangerous flood and did not know how to get hold of her, she was missing and she needed just someone calm to talk to her for a few minutes and help her out. My date totally understood and was glad I was open hearted enough to take the call).

I like going to a pub. I don't want a meal. snacks and some drinks and a long conversation and a good laugh.

that's a first hang out with me. Don't fuss but be cool, be a bit smooth. make me laugh, be open, tell me stories about your life.

[willow]

the variety is staggering in what people like.

what some people need I would be baffled by or put off from.

what I want, other people would feel totally unnecessary or completely not enough.

but that is the whole point of hanging out with each other: to find out and to see if it's a match.

for example - I don't care if people answer their phone. people have jobs that do demand an answer, the have kids or parents in care. They have other friends that may have an emergency (I was out on a date once and my ex called me in hysterics because her new partner was stuck in a very dangerous flood and did not know how to get hold of her, she was missing and she needed just someone calm to talk to her for a few minutes and help her out. My date totally understood and was glad I was open hearted enough to take the call).

I like going to a pub. I don't want a meal. snacks and some drinks and a long conversation and a good laugh.

that's a first hang out with me. Don't fuss but be cool, be a bit smooth. make me laugh, be open, tell me stories about your life.

You are right, my no phone ban was too sweeping. If there are dependent children or elderly relatives to consider then that's a whole different thing.

[Smiling]

For me, what makes a date great is if I feel like the other person is not just in attendance, but present; and happy to be there with me. It doesn't take much to convince me of that; just a genuine smile, easy conversation, and some friendly -don't overdo it, just be easy about it- body language will do the trick.

I don't require any grand gestures beyond that. I do appreciate a door being held for me, but it isn't an issue for me if it is not. However, I do agree with whomever stated that a date had better not let a door close in their face, lol.

[Redsunflower]

I've liked this thread very much and am astounded any of us manage to get together given the variety of ways we like to be treated on a date.

This one...


...you reach out to give me a warm welcoming hug...you offer to help me with my jacket or coat...you reach to take my luggage from me...you get out of the car, come around and open the passenger's door for me, you take my hand and kiss it gently...
...you have a large cozy bathrobe in the bathroom for me...
...You've made plans for dinner, Italian...
...while helping me with my coat, you ask if you may kiss me...at the restaurant you pull out my chair and kiss my cheek.
...you ask if you can order for me...
...you have made me feel like a princess.

...is my idea of a living hell. (No offence intended in way way, LadyRieinAL. Best of luck with finding what you're looking for. :-))

If we're talking about spending time with someone we don't know very well, maybe just enough to be interested, then I want to be treated like exactly that, someone you don't know very well.

Be curious, ask stuff, if I don't want to tell you I'll say. Be ready for me to ask things about you, I will 'cos I'm interested, or I wouldn't be there. Show me who you are as best you can and I'll do the same.

Have a few ideas ready for things we might do. I'll have some too and we can figure it out together. We're both responsible for our own enjoyment.

Tell me what's important to you, what you love, what drives you mad, what your passionate about. Tell me about your mood, where you think you are in life, what you get up to. Tell me any damn thing you like.

Mostly, treat me like the competent, independent, thinking person that I am.

And that'll do nicely, thank you.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Yeah I don't really wanna be asked if someone may kiss me. I may panic and say no lol.
I dunno, I was raised on the slow move in, giving time for the other person to move away. Hint taken.
I like tension and unspoken things. Leading up to a molestation in the ally lol
Someone kissing my hand would have me saying something really smart ass.

Though one person did it once in a way that was smooth. I have never seen that repeated before in my life. I'd rather have a hand on my back. Those little physical touches back and forth, gradually accumulating in dry humping under the table hahahaha...

The leg touch with their leg, so I can move my leg or leave it there. And the spike in blood pressure that happens with that.

Or just drink beer on my couch with me and talk till it gets late and leap on me, that will do!

[Redsunflower]

Yeah I don't really wanna be asked if someone may kiss me. I may panic and say no lol.
I dunno, I was raised on the slow move in, giving time for the other person to move away. Hint taken.
I like tension and unspoken things. Leading up to a molestation in the ally lol
Someone kissing my hand would have me saying something really smart ass.

Though one person did it once in a way that was smooth. I have never seen that repeated before in my life. I'd rather have a hand on my back. Those little physical touches back and forth, gradually accumulating in dry humping under the table hahahaha...

The leg touch with their leg, so I can move my leg or leave it there. And the spike in blood pressure that happens with that.

Or just drink beer on my couch with me and talk till it gets late and leap on me, that will do!

Oh yes...tension and unspoken things...I love all that too. When the tension is allowed to build, then moments that might come later are even hotter. The small touches of my back or hand or wherever, I need a chance to wonder if they were accidental or deliberate, what it felt like to have you touching me, if I want you to touch me again, to wait for it and want it.

I don't want to be asked about a kiss 'cos that's just the wrong dynamic altogether, too formal and polite, I don't want anything sexual to be done in a polite way. But if my date waits for me to make the first move, we will wait forever; never gonna happen, ever.

Like all kinds of touching, you'll know I'm interested 'cos I'll be physically close enough to allow you to do it. If you just can't find the moment, that'll be because I'm avoiding it. If the 'blood pressure spike' doesn't happen then it just isn't happening. This energy cannot be created artificially, it exists between two people or not, but giving it a chance to grow is the best thing ever.

Now I want to go on a date, it's been a while. Dammit.

[*Anya*]

I did something I had never done before, on my first date with my girl-friend (wrote about it somewhere in a post prior to this one).

When she walked me to my car to say goodbye ( I always used to use separate cars on a first date as a get-away, if needed); I asked her if I could kiss her goodnight.

She was not expecting it, and kind of stuttered, "Yes".

It was a great kiss, I said I enjoyed the date and got in my car and drove away.

When I looked in the rear-view mirror, she was still standing there.

It was classic and she still loves that I did that.

[kittygrrl]

engaging conversation about, astronomy, art, climate change, world hunger, (in other words passionate, or compassion for people, interests or causes)

[Joness]

engaging conversation about, astronomy, art, climate change, world hunger, (in other words passionate, or compassion for people, interests or causes)

Totally agree with this chat! I would add in for me Quantum physical and energy work. Now that's what excites me :-)

[WingsOnFire]

I have been on 2 friend dates in the past week. She was quite chivalrous opening the door for me and always doing polite things. It was nice.

I personally like having their hand in the small of my back, holding the door for me, paying attention to me not their cellphone, just having wonderful easy conversation. I so miss being courted :)

[kittygrrl]

Totally agree with this chat! I would add in for me Quantum physical and energy work. Now that's what excites me :-)

as in physics? if so, that would be a very interesting conversation

[imperfect_cupcake]

I like hearing personal stories. Openness about themselves. I can't STAND "dark and mysterious" or extremely private. Its never ever worked with me and people who are really private or shy because all I want to know is about their lives and they are too gaurded/insecure to tell me all the stories of their childhood, their growing up, their jobs, their travels, their exes, their love lives... the kinds of things you share with your friends. instead they are trying to be elusive, mysterious, polite... and it BORES the living crap out of me, I bloody hate it.

I have been told "I'm not going to let you know what kind of freak I am!" (oh. too bad. and I broke it off with her. I was sorely disappointed because I actually was looking forward to getting to know her. If shes not going to share her stuff with me then its a no goer)
and "But if I don't hold things back and I tell you everything, then there will be nothing left to say and hold your interest!"
??????????????????????????????????????????? wow. that's all I can say to that one. Fuck. Really? wow. Nevermind.

I love conversation about science and quantum and biology and chemistry but... I also love highly personal stuff that people can share and joke and laugh about. People being "polite" means they are very and oh so serious. I can't deal with it. Makes me want to open my wrists. I get treated like a delicate flower and there is no banter, piss assing about, no friendship and belly laughter and hooting and just being myself. I love urban life but jesus you don't have to have pole up your arse at a good restaurant. Please don't treat me like a 1950's girl. I'm not. I'm really, really not. Treat me like a sexy best mate that gives great head and you'd love to have a pic nic with and giggle with on a road trip.
I'm not a Lady. Nor am I a princess. I'm a partner and a good friend and great sex. I get muddy and wash up and go to the theater.
I'm human. I don't care if you make a call. or don't open all my doors. I don't want a fairy tale. I want you. and an adventure.

[firegal]

Maybe I didn't read enough of the past post.....

But treateted on a date to me is elementary....in the BF world


Kind ,courteous,civilous,like a lady....or a queen....

I could go on and on....as we define the BF dance...


All I know is she should ALWAYS feel like the lady that she is.... So I feel like the butch I am.

[Martina]

....in the BF world

like a lady....or a queen....

I could go on and on....as we define the BF dance...


All I know is she should ALWAYS feel like the lady that she is.... So I feel like the butch I am.

That's not my definition of butch-femme. I definitely don't date folks who need to treat me like a queen. That would not work. I am still femme and still date butches. I don't enjoy the chivalry thing or any of that. Still femme. Still date butches.

[Uli]

Lady is such an antiquated, oppressive term. Discovering femme freed me from all that bullshit, thank god. I can cuss like a sailor, refuse to cross my legs, and I'm still a femme. Fuck "lady". *spit*

Edited to be more on topic: On a date, I like to be treated in a way that is authentic to the person I'm on the date with, so I can figure out, in an honest environment, if that person suits me and I them. Seems simple enough, no act, no fancy moves or games, just be.

[Gemme]

I don't feel that generally descriptive terms bear any weight on their own, so words like lady or proper or whatever are not derogatory or offensive at all.

We all have our personal ticks but it's just as offensive for someone to say that lady is an "ewww" word as it is when someone says another's sexual practices are "yucky" or offensive.

So, here's to hoping that folks are treated however they prefer to be treated through the holidays, 2014 and beyond.

[Uli]

I didn't say "lady" was derogatory or offensive. I said it was antiquated and oppressive. As in, it is a word that has been used to shame women and 'put them in their place' through multiple eras. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to oppress a person or group of people with one's personal sexual practices, unless rape counts as a personal, sexual practice.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I do share Ulis feelings about that word. I know lots of femmes like to "play the lady" to some knight of a butch in a fairy tale world they like to play. That is all well and good. But in many many real world places, the term lady, still pertains to it's class origins.

It's a *Title* of ownership of lands and aristocracy.

I just lived in a place that still has that title. And I know a lot of Americans think it's a quaint and shit to have a queen and barons and princesses but as someone who is NOT a royalist and would like the queens head off my money I would like to remind people that the term "Lady" is a term of privilege and class restriction. And often used as a word of shaming, even here. As in "someone who does not behave like a Lady" to shame someone for their "lack of class"

What do people really think that phrase really means, exactly? "Lack of Class" where exactly does everyone think it comes from?
It means you are common. As in not privileged and land owning.

This is very real stuff. Not just a past thing. It still goes on and I see it here and in many places where people think femmes should act like "Ladies" and butches their keep of their "honour"
Really? Do people have no honest idea that what they are playing at may be a lovely fairy game between two people in a novel fantasy, which is fabulous, but the word, in actual functioning in the real world outside of that, isn't very nice.

When butches are referred to as ladies I suspect it's not just the gender of the term that chafes to but the behaviour it also implies.

I chafe at it. I don't like it. I was never fond of it and the being constantly told to act like one, to not swear or be vulgar, cause that's not lady like. And if you aren't lady like then you have no class (privilege, back again) and don't deserve any respect.

It's a completely loaded term.

Utterly. And it often hold my tongue when it gets bandied about like it means nothing but something light and fluffy and playing princess. It pisses me off at times but I know 90% of people reading my words here won't get it or don't want to so I generally don't bother.

But Uli did not call anyone names or tell people they were worthless... She expressed her political distain at a WORD and it's oppressive use. Not a person. she may have not phrased it in a very careful way as best to avoid offending anyone's feelings, but I'm guessing that expressing a hatred of a word for good reason, people are not so incredibly delicate that expressing hatred of a word for it's political implications won't cause people to wail and bleed under their beds.

[firegal]

That's not my definition of butch-femme. I definitely don't date folks who need to treat me like a queen. That would not work. I am still femme and still date butches. I don't enjoy the chivalry thing or any of that. Still femme. Still date butches.

Isn't that the beauty of this site,we can have differences in our definitions and share them.What works for one may not be the preference for another.Doesn't mean one is better or worse.

I must admit that I forgot that you sometimes need to be cautious here as to what terms are used because the interpretation here sometimes ends up way left of where the intent was meant to be.

I would like to retract the term queen....after some thought it really didn't capture what I meant..all I mean was to have them feel special,appreciated,kind,polite,enjoyment,laughter ,....Yada,Yada Yada..

I enjoy the old chivalry thing......still butch...still like femmes.

The term "treat like a lady" ..... I was raised to have that mean ,show respect,don't dismiss,kind,polite,thoughtfullness. If it sounds kinda old school I think it's because I kinda am.

I may not use the most current definition or the current more modern term,but I think my intent I described above.

I just felt I needed to clarify a bit what I meant.....Thanks for listening.

[imperfect_cupcake]

(By the way Gemme that's not directed at you. That's me ranting at the entirety of the site, the butch-femme groups I left, the universe and the moon)

[Gemme]

I didn't say "lady" was derogatory or offensive. I said it was antiquated and oppressive. As in, it is a word that has been used to shame women and 'put them in their place' through multiple eras. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to oppress a person or group of people with one's personal sexual practices, unless rape counts as a personal, sexual practice.

Actually, many folks even here have been shamed due to their sexual practices. Hell, our whole community has been shamed due to our sexual practices. That's why that came to mind for me.

You are right. My apologies for not using your exact words. For me, the sentiment is the same. Oppressive things are offensive to me, for example.

Many people, especially the younger generation, feel that the terms butch and femme are antiquated. While I don't feel that that mindset is opppressive by itself, it could be if someone decided to shame another for being one or the other.

Our community has had to take back lots of terms and words that have been used to oppress and shame us. Dyke and bull dagger and queer come to mind. Why not lady too? Why does lady have to be a measure of something? Why can't it just be?

Good discussion.

(By the way Gemme that's not directed at you. That's me ranting at the entirety of the site, the butch-femme groups I left, the universe and the moon)

No worries! I always like to hear what's on your mind. We're all going to have words and phrases that rub us the wrong way, be they oppressive or offensive, both, or neither. :)

[imperfect_cupcake]

Thanks Gemme, glad you get my kvetching lol.

Because lady, used in most cases, is still a measure of how much class someone has. Lady still isn't just a word in our community. What's the opposite of a lady? Ask. You'll get answers. Not very nice ones. It's still very much a measure.

I've actually given up the ID of femme cause I personally can't deal with the concepts attached to it anymore, in North America. "Lady" concepts by those within the community is actually a rather big part of that for me.

I have less argument over the term "lady" outside of the butch-femme community. Far, far less. I get a lot of nods and agreement from most people. But not butch-femme on line groups. One on one? I get less argument. I get a facial expression of "ok I see your point of why it bugs you."

I would be more interested in reclaiming the word as not being a measure of anything, if it wasn't constantly being used that way in my daily life. Saying "I'm a lady" does not shock, does not challenge and does not make people think. It just looks like I'm buying in to the hierarchical pretence of privileged behaviour. Telling people "I'm not lady" is what challenges them to think about it.

Queer and dyke did not do that. It challenged people on their insults to a sexuality. That's the difference for me.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I love this conversation that is taking place, I happen to use "Lady" in my Leather because I find it funny, dirty, and it's a sort of empowerment for me to wear it and use it in my kink....


I use *Lady* in particular because it's convenient for me, now what really pisses me off as a Femme is when someone wants to super impose certain kinds of *behaviors* that are deemed to be *ladylike*... I personally do not like being forced into a peg, or design to fit someone's fucking ego boost.


You want someone with good manners, empathy, or anything else that you (general you) fancy tagging as *lady like*, then good on you. That expectation and peg holing should be kept to your (general) consensual dynamic be it whatever it is. WHAT should not be happening is that certain behaviors dictate how all women/femmes/femalebodied persons *should* act, talk or be like....


For *me* that's oppressing, sexist, non consensual and it perpetuates that women.femme.femalebodied persons are only here to make it better for all those folks (general) that like to put women.femme.femalebodied person into boxes that we do not fit into...


So I use Lady, because when I use Sir, Master, Owner it seems to be a disturbing factor in people, most people though get it, that my ownership of Lady is like my ownership of baby girl, it's on my damn terms, on it's done my way, it it fits no one's standard definition of either, I own my Femme that was as well, it's either my way or it's not for me....


It hasn't kept me from having a good time for 44.5 years, matter of fact it keeps me quite busy and occupied in every way.

*curtsy*


P.S.

To clarify about my baby girl, I'd like to be transparent and say she's about 16.5 a Lolita and pretty much runs it her way as well... Happy New Year:vigil:

[imperfect_cupcake]

Actually, Lady in leather concept I get. Just like I get Sir or Lord. Both are titles of ownership (Sir &Dame then next hierarchically is Lord & Lady, etc. for those who did not know, Lady trumps a Sir in postion). If I do that, if I'm in my Domme headspace, I prefer "your Grace" by bottoms and subs and slaves in conversation and "Countess" by tops, dom/me etc. if we want to get technical hahahaha.

Though I did get called Dame Baps by smart ass mates in London, which I don't mind at all. Smart ass/taking the piss is always acceptable.

But I do not with those terms to be used in my daily life. It has connotations of behaviour and privilege I don't agree with. If someone wants me to play Lady to their abused Lady's Maid, sure. Or upstart gentleman's valet, sure. But it stays there. I don't bring it out of that context.

I'm too much of a socialist. I like that Canada does not allow Canadians to receive Titles. We kept Conrad black out that way, at least for a while. HA!

The day that when asked "what's the opposite of a lady?" Can be answered with "I'm not sure what that means. I don't understand" will be the day I don't mind it's use applied to me and the day I stop getting mildly irritated with the way that's used in butch-femme communities.

But, I'm not a femme. So I no longer have to have that discussion. I just have to shrug and say "I'm not a femme" and walk on whatever side of the fucking pavement I feel like and swear and eat with my fingers and take my stockings off in the street cause they keep falling down (something I'm quite good at. Cause the shitty stockings in this country have me appalled. I miss Marks and Sparks stay ups. I'm great at sliding off my stockings while walking with someone without much fuss. It's like taking your bra off without taking off your shirt. It can be done smoothly with practice). I find this also seperates those who laugh from those who are horrified or embarrassed.

Blah blah de blah. I'm starting to bore myself a bit. I'm sure I'm putting others into a coma.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Actually, Lady in leather concept I get. Just like I get Sir or Lord. Both are titles of ownership (Sir &Dame then next hierarchically is Lord & Lady, etc. for those who did not know, Lady trumps a Sir in postion). If I do that, if I'm in my Domme headspace, I prefer "your Grace" by bottoms and subs and slaves in conversation and "Countess" by tops, dom/me etc. if we want to get technical hahahaha.

Though I did get called Dame Baps by smart ass mates in London, which I don't mind at all. Smart ass/taking the piss is always acceptable.

But I do not with those terms to be used in my daily life. It has connotations of behaviour and privilege I don't agree with. If someone wants me to play Lady to their abused Lady's Maid, sure. Or upstart gentleman's valet, sure. But it stays there. I don't bring it out of that context.

I'm too much of a socialist. I like that Canada does not allow Canadians to receive Titles. We kept Conrad black out that way, at least for a while. HA!

The day that when asked "what's the opposite of a lady?" Can be answered with "I'm not sure what them means. I don't understand" will be the day I don't mind it's use applied to me and the day I stop getting mildly irritated with the way that's used in butch-femme communities.

But, I'm not a femme. So I no longer have to have that discussion. I just have to shrug and say "I'm not a femme" and walk on whatever side of the fucking pavement I feel like and swear and eat with my fingers and take my stockings off in the street cause they keep falling down (something I'm quite good at. Cause the shitty stockings in this country have me appalled. I miss Marks and Sparks stay ups. I'm great at sliding off my stockings while walking with someone without much fuss. It's like taking your bra off without taking off your shirt. It can be done smoothly with practice). I find this also seperates those who laugh from those who are horrified or embarrassed.

Blah blah de blah. I'm starting to bore myself a bit. I'm sure I'm putting others into a coma.



HB, I heart you because like you, I am just Snow, a Femme that regardless of what someone says I have to fit into as far as what Femme should be I never have and never will. When I read you I hear you, and I feel you because at times I have wanted to strip myself of Femme because I looked upon my person and NOTHING matched to the cookie cutter misconception of Femme, because it's gender for*me* I can't strip it off, it won't go nowhere, it futile and destructive for *me*..


Just cause I can piss standing up, doesn't mean I not what I choose and have fought hard accept, I am glad you are bringing it up and no, it's not boring it needs to be talked about, because it's important especially when we date, because I can't tell you how many damn times I have lost my mental hard on from having someone have an expectation of how I should behave, it softens my cock, it shuts my brain off and it makes me want to be sadistic and not the good kind of sadistic.

Feminine presentation does not dictate how far I can spit a loogey of I want or how I shouldn't cause that's not "lady like"


Fuck that noise!


So with that said, when dating, it would be best not to date women.femme.femalebodied folk who do not fit your image of what that should be and if someone starts that shit, ask for the check, shake their hand, go get your nails done and go have fun, eventually even if it's just for a fun fuck, you're gonna run into someone, who appreciates the creature you are....


Thanks for always pulling back the curtain, I am glad someone does!

[imperfect_cupcake]

Aw. Snows. You really are a perfect sweetheart. I'd so shag you. Or be shagged or however that would work for you. Hahaha. I'd give you the warmest hug ever if you were in the room.

I think for now with my level of fed up ness I'm just going to pass on the ID just for now and stick with Dolly Dyke. My lack of seeing people like me, which wasn't the case in the UK, sort of has me at the end of my previously femme rope. I get tired of "you're femme? Where's your handbag hahaha" by butches and having to say things like "up your ass. With your head."

I understand femme as gender. Completely. It's pretty much the way I see it which makes me rip my eye balls out when people start talking about femmes as being ladies. Not ladies = disgusting and improper and not femme

If we take that logic and apply it to another gender, let's say butch... Because they aren't feminine, butches aren't women. And we all know that's not true. Look at butches. There's a fucktruck full of women butches around.

So I hear you. And I'll fight your femme corner. But presently, I just don't have the energy for explaining to hurt egos:

why femme doesn't mean all the prescribed behaviour stuff to someone who keeps moving to the outside of the pavement when I'm trying to look at stuff,

thinking that I should be wrapped in cotton and saved

is horrified when I'm "vulgar"

thinks glancing noticeably at my tits during a date is horrid and disrespectful to my delicate femininity

that if I should be the princess of centre of the universe while around (instead of an equal and a friend)

kissed chastely on the cheek on the second date. Maybe (another reason why I don't date...)

When I explain to them how much I find that stuff really not me, it upsets me and I feel "othered" by it (distanced form them, made to feel different, like I'm being treated like a romantic unit by prescribed rules instead of recognized as the individual I am, with individual wants and likes) then I'm:

hurting their ego
not a lady because that is how you treat ladies
if she doesn't like it that way then she is not really very femme
she's cruel
she's a big meanie
I was only trying to show her I think she's a special jewel to be worshiped [again, still not getting it....]
she just wants to use me like a dildo if she wants sex
she's indiscriminate and has a dirty vagina (I've actually HEARD these things said to me, and many more, in the year I've been home.... )

All these rules make me dispair. I'm also not used to them anymore. They weren't there for 10 years. I find them restrictive and chafing. It's like putting a bra on that you didn't have for 10 years and find it really doesn't fit.

And everyone around is talks like it's the best fitting bra in the world and you wonder if your tits are freaky or what.

I'll keep the femme one that fit in the UK. I think too many people in the community on this side of the Atlantic, especially south of the boarder, have a different understanding of the word for it to not be a royal pain in the fucking arse to say I'm femme and not have it mean all these things I find torturous. I get that many girls love to be treated that way. Bravo. Fine. I'm just not one of you. And they out number me by far, it appears, or people wouldn't be trying to hard to shove me into that mode of behaviour.

I have to constantly disclaimer "femme" to others. IN my community. I actually have to do more now to those IN rather than out. I think that's sort of telling to me, for my comfort levels. So I think, for now, when I talk to anyone from North America, I'll just use another word. It saves me a lot of grief of explanation.

But to those that get me? Yeah ;)

[imperfect_cupcake]

And can I just say, I've re-read my post and I'm waiting for Daktari to come in and say something about my freaky tits.


Ha you dirty bugger. Scooped you!

[The_Lady_Snow]

I think Dolly Dyke is lovely and so divine! I can almost taste it~

[imperfect_cupcake]

You know, Snows, I'm kind of tempted to make EVERYONE call me Dame Freaky Tits. The whole thing. They can't shorten it to DFT. They have to say the word tits. To a girl. And call them freaky.

[The_Lady_Snow]

You know, Snows, I'm kind of tempted to make EVERYONE call me Dame Freaky Tits. The whole thing. They can't shorten it to DFT. They have to say the word tits. To a girl. And call them freaky.


I support your temptations and your tits!

[Daktari]

And can I just say, I've re-read my post and I'm waiting for Daktari to come in and say something about my freaky tits.


Ha you dirty bugger. Scooped you!

Who moi? I'm sure you must have me mixed up with someone else! :angel:

[imperfect_cupcake]

Now that I've fully windbagged myself out with belly ranting... I have no retort.

[Daktari]

Now that I've fully windbagged myself out with belly ranting... I have no retort.

:grindevil:

:raspberry:







ps. Apologies for stepping into a femme zone thread. My excuse is that is was just too irresistable :cheesy:

[fatallyblonde]

wow I wish some of you were nearby to take me on a date!

I don't think it takes money, although I certainly appreciate that gesture when it is shown. For me it is way more important that my Butch date is showered, dressed nice and pays attention to me, just as I will be for hyr... I put lots of efforts into being beautiful on dates... I would hope my Butch date would too... I enjoy if my Butch enjoys feeling proud to have me on hyr arm and show me off a little... it makes me feel good. But of course I don't want to be treated just like arm candy... I want to know my Butch respects my mind too cos I have a quick and fierce one...
I am old fashioned... I want doors and chairs held for me... I want to feel protected... but a date doesn't have to be fancy. It's more important to me to be treated well and have some great, fun conversation... if you're strapped for cash, take me to a beautiful park and let's sit down on a rug and enjoy watching the world go by... if you offer to rub my feet or shoulders that is about the best kind of moment a date could have lol! Just show me that you care, that you have put in effort and that you think I am all that. I am all about old school Butch/femme dynamics but that doesn't have to be all about spending heaps of money! The little things... pomaded hair, snappy dressing, beautiful manners... those are the most important things to make a girl feel good and appreciated.

[fatallyblonde]

right on honeybarbara, femme is so many things and manifests in so many ways and all are legit. thanks for saying it so tough!

[Martina]

Saying "I'm a lady" does not shock, does not challenge and does not make people think. It just looks like I'm buying in to the hierarchical pretence of privileged behaviour. Telling people "I'm not lady" is what challenges them to think about it.


Good point.

[Martina]

If someone wants me to play Lady to their abused Lady's Maid, sure.

*gulp* and *fans self*

[bokster]

I like this thread! Can I hang out here? :)

[silkepus]

And can I just say, I've re-read my post and I'm waiting for Daktari to come in and say something about my freaky tits.


Ha you dirty bugger. Scooped you!

Wish I had freaky tits. Unfortunately my tits are well behaved and polite with wholesome interests *sigh* typical my luck.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I'd much rather have wholesome anything. I might get a date :(

[silkepus]

I'd much rather have wholesome anything. I might get a date :(

Trust me, wholesomness will not get you any dates, I can vouch for that!

[DapperButch]

I'd much rather have wholesome anything. I might get a date :(

Trust me, wholesomness will not get you any dates, I can vouch for that!

They are both tasty.

<--- likes the all-in-one variety

[morningstar55]

like a lady

[imperfect_cupcake]

They are both tasty.

<--- likes the all-in-one variety

to be honest, I don't even know what wholesome actually means. As far as I understand, wholesome = whole wheat bread and home baked.

[tiaras-and-books]

I haven't dated very much, but for me I like some of the old fashioned stuff, like doors being held open for me. It's just nice. I like, too, when I can tell that the date is a little bit of a special occasion for both of us. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, but just that someone bothered to look a little extra nice, similar little things, makes me feel a little special.

Personally, I'm broke a whole lot of the time, so I definitely don't mind doing free/inexpensive stuff on dates. I usually plan to pay my own way on everything, unless for some reason it's really important to the other person to pay for the date, in which case I don't have a strong enough opinion on the subject for it to conflict. So inexpensive options make me happy. Mostly I think dates are for spending time with the other person, a getting-to-know-you time or kind of an arranged "let's focus on each other" time. One of my favorite dates for fun-factor was a picnic (the same stuff I was making for dinner anyway, just packed up) at the park with travel Scrabble. They have free concerts once a week all summer at that park, and that's a really nice date, too.

I will say, I've been picked up one or two times for dates when I had to spend five minutes clearing stuff off the passenger seat of their vehicle so that I would have a place to sit, or with the footspace all full of fast food cups and stuff. That I didn't like!

The last man I dated before I sorted out that I wasn't actually straight used to bring me little trinkets when he came to see me, which was kind of neat. Nothing fancy usually - a flower he'd picked on the way over, or a stuffed animal he'd won out of a claw machine. (He was remarkably good at those games, so it never cost him more than a dollar.) But nobody had ever done that, so it just felt incredibly sweet to me. He was a really good date in general - he just treated me beautifully. If I were any kind of straight I'd probably be married to him by now, the sweetheart.

Like I said before, I haven't dated a whole lot, so really I don't have a lot of experience to point me toward anything concrete. But basically what it boils down to is that I want to be treated respectfully and like I'm special to them, that our time together is special to them.

[Martina]

I will say, I've been picked up one or two times for dates when I had to spend five minutes clearing stuff off the passenger seat of their vehicle so that I would have a place to sit, or with the footspace all full of fast food cups and stuff. That I didn't like!


Lol. I have told this before, but it became a pet peeve. I have had folks pick me up and then go to the ATM and get gas, etc. I get it if you had a particularly busy day -- and you explain that -- or if you've been together a while. But for it to be early on in dating and for the person to not do all those things first . . . red flag. I am serious. DO NOT BORE ME. Kiss of death.

I was on a first date with a butch who had to make a stop for something work related. I waited for 45 minutes. I didn't have a book or anything because who knew? Then she talked about her ex. No second date.

I absolutely will not have my time wasted like that. To me that is so disrespectful. I don't do it to others, whether they are dates or friends or even acquaintances. If I am going to transport someone in my car, I have already put gas in the car and have gone to the ATM.

While I expect everyone to be clean, I don't even notice how people are dressed unless it's super sexy. I could not care less. My colleague said to me yesterday about a student who had just left, "If you had a daughter, would you let her walk out of the house like that?" Honestly, I couldn't even remember what the student had been wearing. I just don't care.

Edited to add: Oh and know how to get where you are going or have GPS or whatever. We can all get lost, but at least have written down the directions or something. I have had a couple of people not know how to get back on the interstate after we have gone somewhere new to both of us. I get lost easily, but I prepare. Anyway, things that are careless and cause me to be bored -- done and done. Maybe it's cruel, but I effing hate to be bored.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I wish I liked dating.

[thedreamerin]

I have never been on an official date... but here are some guidelines.
1.Be clean
2. Be you
3. Brownie points if you can get the door...

I am the kind of girl who fantasizes about slow dancing in the middle of nowhere with nothing but the car radio music. Maybe a nice picnic under the stars? Heck, I wouldn't even mind going on a hike for the first date (just give a warning to wear walking shoes)
I don't know why it has to be so hard. I just want to be treated with respect. I expect that if we are on a date you would be interested in me, so act like it. An occasional compliment goes a long way.
I think as a rule if you are the one that asked me on a date you should have thought about what you wanted to do. I am pretty open to trying new things, but if you want to take me somewhere to eat you should at least have an idea of what kind of foods I can't stand. For instance, taking me to a sushi bar would be problematic.
so yeah 4. Be prepared
:) I don't need flowers, but they are a sweet touch. I just need your honest presence and your willingness to show me who YOU are.

[BombsiteBoudicca]

Best date I had was going for hot dogs and knishes at katz's deli in NYC. I think it took my butch daddy a while to understand he didn't have to do the fancy dinner/candlelight/hearts and flowers thing. Just laughing and talking over some simple shared food is glorious. The most important thing is that we're spending relaxed time together. I mean...I love that he buys me expensive perfume too, don't get me wrong!! ; )

Worst date? My ex had a real knack of making me cry whenever we went out for dinner (hence EX). But one time we went to a pub, and they went to get us drinks at the bar....and came back to the table empty handed- they had been carded at the bar (they were 39 at the time but has a real baby face and was often mistaken for a teenage boy) 'Old lady' over here had to go to the bar and prove my butch girlfriend was actually not my underage son. SERIOUSLY.

[thedreamerin]

Good lord, lol that tickled me. Though I am sorry it was such a crummy date.

[storyspinner70]

Way late since you posted this, but here are my ideas anyway...lol...It's definitely different for everyone, and I think you get into trouble if you fall into this "one size fits all" dating idea. Good hygiene and a clean vehicle and house are fundamental and should be kind of a given, regardless of the interaction. But when you say, "I'm going to treat her like a lady", or "I'm going to open your doors", etc, that's probably not going to be a problem in general, but not everyone appreciates those things. I, for example, am not romantic. Romance makes me uncomfortable and on edge. Open my doors, profer your arm, but if it's early in our dating history, I'd rather not have a gift from you. It makes the playing field uneven and I don't like that. I don't care where we go to eat (as long as there's something besides seafood - allergic...lmao), or what we may choose to do, I'll diplomatically (usually - unless i really hate it, then i'll generally be charming about it but not so diplomatic...lol) tell you i wasn't fond of whatever it was. For me, I won't be judging on those things. I won't be counting how many times you said fuck or if you spread your napkin just so in your lap. I'll be gauging the sound of your voice and the way you speak to me. I'll be remembering how much I laughed and how we dealt with the awkwardness that will always accompany early dates. I'll think about how often you touched me and how much you used your eyes and mouth to flirt with me. I won't care if you call me the next day or text me that very same night, but will assume we were an ember not a spark if it takes a week. I will remember the effort you made to get to know me and how easy you made it for me to get to know you. I'll remember how you deal with my unfortuantely smart ass mouth and if your humor meshes with my perverse one. Ultimately, I won't remember trappings and gentile manners, but I'll remember how genuine you are. I'll judge you not by what you do for me, but how real you are with me. These things are what matter to me and the women like me. This ended up long af, sorry...lmao...but here you go anyway...lol

[MsTinkerbelly]

I have probably answered this before, but my needs have changed over the years so......

Treat me like I am the most important person in the world, and make me feel like there is no place you would rather be than out with me.

[Daisy Chain]

I have probably answered this before, but my needs have changed over the years so......

Treat me like I am the most important person in the world, and make me feel like there is no place you would rather be than out with me.

Yes, thats pretty much it......and I in turn will do the same to you.

Daisy :bouquet:

[The_Lady_Snow]

Like a slut....

(f)

[Shystonefem]

How about.....

Staying at one or another's home watching a movie?

Buying a 6 pack and some nacho chips?

Actually listening to what we say?

Sitting on the beach (fried dough or beach pizza would be good too)

Coffee house?

Foliage ride (if available in your area) with a stop at little shops?

It is so easy but, for whatever reason, we feel like we have to have reservations at the best place in town in order to impress or be impressed.

I met someone years ago. We went to a coffee shop. She has an actual list of questions (she was cautious) and I went on a second and third and fourth, etc date with her.

My worst relationship ever was with someone who spent a boatload of money but wasn't nice in any other way.

There are so many fun things that are free or, at least , very inexpensive.

I know myself that, if someone asked me out and we went to the beach (with crackers and a 6 pack) I would love it.

Just sayin

[imperfect_cupcake]

Like a slut....

(f)

WOOF.

That's only happened a few times and the sex after the date was mind bending (not the first date, we'd slept together before)

Sooooooo miss it.

[imperfect_cupcake]

to be honest, I don't even know what wholesome actually means. As far as I understand, wholesome = whole wheat bread and home baked.


Ok, I looked it up.

The definition is:


whole·some (hōl′səm)
adj. whole·som·er, whole·som·est
1. Conducive to or indicative of good health or well-being; salutary: simple, wholesome food; a wholesome complexion. See Synonyms at healthy.
2. Conducive to or promoting social or moral well-being, especially in reflecting conventional moral values: wholesome entertainment; a politician with a wholesome public image.
[Middle English holsom, from Old English *hālsum; see kailo- in Indo-European roots.]
whole′some·ly adv.
whole′some·ness n.



If we are talking about conventionally moral in a white middle american kind of way (which is traditionally where it is used) then not in a billion years.
I'm ethical, not moral. Moral is the differentiation of action and thought between propper and impropper and has a religious/spiritual beliefs system behind it. Moral does not need reasoning and it's about everything being applied cross the board.

Ethical - being in accordance to the standards of practice within a system. Either within a group of people or within a scope of profession or culture. There is reasoning to why something is ethical or not. The same action might be ethical in this instance, but may not be ethical in that instance.


I do not consider myself moral. I'm ethical.
Ergo, I can't be wholesome.
Hey ho.

[VintageFemme]

I love reading this thread and everyone's answers, but here's the thing with me . . .

if I have to tell you how I want to be treated on a date, then I'm probably on the wrong date.

[The_Lady_Snow]

ETHICAL SLUT

*twirl"




Ok, I looked it up.

The definition is:





If we are talking about conventionally moral in a white middle american kind of way (which is traditionally where it is used) then not in a billion years.
I'm ethical, not moral. Moral is the differentiation of action and thought between propper and impropper and has a religious/spiritual beliefs system behind it. Moral does not need reasoning and it's about everything being applied cross the board.

Ethical - being in accordance to the standards of practice within a system. Either within a group of people or within a scope of profession or culture. There is reasoning to why something is ethical or not. The same action might be ethical in this instance, but may not be ethical in that instance.


I do not consider myself moral. I'm ethical.
Ergo, I can't be wholesome.
Hey ho.

[FieryRedhead]

First of all, a DATE does not include a drive through window. However, toward the end of the date if coffee is necessery it may be ordered at the drive through. I expect to be treated like a lady at all times because I am going to make you feel like a King. You will have my full attention. My cell phone will remain in my purse because you would be the center of my attention as I hope I would be to you.

I like my date to smell nice. Cologne is sexy.

We all have ex's. I'm a big girl and I get that but it should not be a topic of conversation.

Surprises are fun! I adore them! For my date to take the time to put together a fun (or) romantic (or) low key evening for us shows me that this date with me means something to you and by taking your time to put it together you think highly of me.

Our date is not about the money spent, but being who you are and showing interest in our conversation. I love hamburgers and beer, seafood, prime rib, you name it. I'm easy to please and would want you to go home excited and already thinking about our second date!

[kittygrrl]

If you please, please don't put your phone on the table at dinner..put it on silent (in your pocket), and short of an emergency, do not interrupt our conversation to answer it.

[cinnamongrrl]

what is this "date" thing you speak of...?


<<<<rusty

[imperfect_cupcake]

Please don't date me. Let's just go hang out - no rules, no formal behaviours, no formulas to follow. Just hang out as friends and enjoy each other.
After we hang out for a while, we might wind up in bed together at some point.
If we do that again, and it's agreed it's fabulous for us both, *then* we can go on dates.
This is how I grew up dating in the straight world and with non North american Butch-femme queers.
This is what I feel most comfortable doing.

Thanks for asking!

[kittygrrl]

31% of both men and women agree that 15 minutes of a date is all it takes to decide.

[Gemme]

31% of both men and women agree that 15 minutes of a date is all it takes to decide.

I can make that decision in less than 2 minutes.

:blink:

[Kelt]

31% of both men and women agree that 15 minutes of a date is all it takes to decide.

I can make that decision in less than 2 minutes.

:blink:

Annnnd... It takes me a month.

<<< Hence the status. :blink:

(I know, not a femme and not even the thread question, just struck me)

[DapperButch]

Please don't date me. Let's just go hang out - no rules, no formal behaviours, no formulas to follow. Just hang out as friends and enjoy each other.
After we hang out for a while, we might wind up in bed together at some point.
If we do that again, and it's agreed it's fabulous for us both, *then* we can go on dates.
This is how I grew up dating in the straight world and with non North american Butch-femme queers.
This is what I feel most comfortable doing.

Thanks for asking!

One of these days I am moving to Canada. :canadian:

I can make that decision in less than 2 minutes.

:blink:

Gemme, I never knew you were so superficial! :cheesy:

Is that just deciding a "no" or can you also decide a "yes" to dating the person in two minutes?

I need probably 5 minutes for a no (in some cases), but more time to determine if it is a yes (to dating).

[DapperButch]

Annnnd... It takes me a month.

<<< Hence the status. :blink:



Yeah, you're even slower than me...when it comes to the "maybes". The "maybes" always trip me up. As I've gotten older I have put more newly met people into "maybes" because I thought maybe (ha) I was judging people (as a non-match), too quickly.

I am feeling retired too when it comes to relationships. At least at the moment and the foreseeable future.

[Angeltoes]

I like museums, plays, picnics, etc. It might be fun to go apple picking or to a pumpkin patch. Chivalry is nice to a point as long as we keep it real. Mostly I enjoy spending time with someone who makes me laugh and has something interesting to say. If they have that much going on, then it doesn’t really matter where we go.

[Gemme]

One of these days I am moving to Canada. :canadian:

Gemme, I never knew you were so superficial! :cheesy:

Is that just deciding a "no" or can you also decide a "yes" to dating the person in two minutes?

I need probably 5 minutes for a no (in some cases), but more time to determine if it is a yes (to dating).

Superficial? Nah.

“It takes a minute to have a crush on someone, an hour to like someone, and a day to love someone... but it takes a lifetime to forget someone.”

― Kahlil Gibran

But, seriously.....

Psychologists have shown it takes between 90 seconds and 4 minutes to decide if you fancy someone.

Research has shown this has little to do with what is said, rather (http://www.youramazingbrain.org/lovesex/sciencelove.htm)


• 55% is through body language
• 38% is the tone and speed of their voice
• Only 7% is through what they say

[C0LLETTE]

watch?v=ZPAmDULCVrU

[imperfect_cupcake]

It takes me several times of hanging out to make up my mind. I often don't feel any chemistry for a the first few times. I'm a slow "feeler". If you ask me how I feel about something it make take me a few days to get back to you.

So the whole " one meet up date for two hours" make a yes or no decision... Doesn't work for me. Unless it's a huge no. I usually just feel "um. Maybe? Can't tell. Gotta hang out at least a few more times and have several more conversations. And if thats ok, its still I-dont-know till we've had sex a few times. Then I'll know."

It takes me a hella long time to judge something.

Those psychologist haven't spent time in my head. It really does take me a long time.

[Gemme]

It takes me several times of hanging out to make up my mind. I often don't feel any chemistry for a the first few times. I'm a slow "feeler". If you ask me how I feel about something it make take me a few days to get back to you.

So the whole " one meet up date for two hours" make a yes or no decision... Doesn't work for me. Unless it's a huge no. I usually just feel "um. Maybe? Can't tell. Gotta hang out at least a few more times and have several more conversations. And if thats ok, its still I-dont-know till we've had sex a few times. Then I'll know."

It takes me a hella long time to judge something.

Those psychologist haven't spent time in my head. It really does take me a long time.

You are one of my favorite anomalies.

:)

[Kelt]

It takes me several times of hanging out to make up my mind. I often don't feel any chemistry for a the first few times. I'm a slow "feeler". If you ask me how I feel about something it make take me a few days to get back to you.

So the whole " one meet up date for two hours" make a yes or no decision... Doesn't work for me. Unless it's a huge no. I usually just feel "um. Maybe? Can't tell. Gotta hang out at least a few more times and have several more conversations. And if thats ok, its still I-dont-know till we've had sex a few times. Then I'll know."

It takes me a hella long time to judge something.

Those psychologist haven't spent time in my head. It really does take me a long time.

:yeahthat:

[catlady]

I would like to be taken to some place romantic and quiet--crowds don't do for me. Parks, nature areas, and walks are satisfying enough. Just any place where her attention can be fully focused on me. Even cooking a meal at her place and inviting me over would make a lovely date.

Compliments and flirty comments would be nice too. Telling me how pretty or sexy I am would make me really happy. And I would also like a lot of affectionate touching where she shows me her gentlewomanly side.

[Shystonefem]

I am really laid back. I don't care where we go. We could go to the beach, for a walk or the fanciest restaurant ever. ... wherever.

I know immediately .... like Cricket said to me, I am still looking for chemistry as a hige part of the package. And I can't (and wont) fake that.

I don't think I superficial, I just know what I like.

[Amulette]

Respectful curiosity -----> engage -----> go deeper -----> find out what's there!!!

*note to user* -----> demonstrates action taken.

[Nattih]

- Treating me as if you like me is my big thing. I dislike feeling like the date is some kind of test with a professor that I am supposed to "pass" or as if I am a shoe you are trying on to see how you like the fit. This is why I always tell people, if you are not sure about liking me, let's just skip the date and be friends.

- I prefer to be embraced, both physically and emotionally. I feel awkward when there is no touching aside from a handshake. I understand that it takes some people a while to warm up to a hug, so I will be understanding.

- I promise to be entertaining if you promise to keep the phone to a minimum. I allow a certain amount of phone fondling before I assume you are not interested in my company and I grab my purse to go.

- Be honest with me about what you are looking for, what you came on the date with me for. Don't sell me some dream, or give me some canned line.

- Take me wherever you can afford, but it has to be the right "date night" atmosphere.

- I will always be well groomed for dates, but I am not the type to notice your haircut, car, fashion right off the bat. Someone wore basketball shorts on a date with me and we were running our mouths and laughing all night so I didn't notice til later. But appropriate dress is always prefered. :blink:

[imperfect_cupcake]

I dunno, I ve learned that snap judgements about chemistry for me can be all kinds of wrong. When I sat down across from My ex T, the first thing I thought in my head was "no" and that was the instant chemistry decision.

Boy was I ever wrong. Over the following month of hanging out and flirting and then sleeping together, she came to become the person I have to date, the strongest ever chemistry with. I'm rarely a physical look type person. But there were times I could not stop staring at her naked body in utter wonder. That had never happened to me before. Oh, I've thought people were hot and sexy, but never been unable to stop staring at them in drop down eye full lust that hurt to look away.

Because for me, people get hotter and hotter as I get to know them. Physically. I physically find them more attractive as I get to know them. They somehow change in perception. The more I trust someone, the funnier I think they are, the more I see them as independent and able... The hotter they look. Sex will start dripping off them.

However, the more pushy they get, the more whiney, the more demanding, the more insecure about their abilities, the more jealous (possessive is different. Possessive I can deal with), moody, conservative, and sexist... The less physically attractive they become.

One Butch I found very attractive because she seemed so together, reliable, kinky, and she played a ton of contact sports so she was quite tank like in her build... Drank too much and called me (massive red flag number one... Putting the brakes full on) told me while drunk on the phone that she wanted me to take care of her, that she wanted a sexy, kinky girly girl to look after her, cook for her, be her nurse.

*jams into reverse and floors it in backwards direction* she became extremely unattractive, physically, the next time I saw her. I couldn't control that from happening. My skin crawled when she tried to grab my hand.

Some people want me to want them NOW, the first two minutes I ever see them. Never going to happen. But if it gets to the place where I am saying that I want to be their girl? You can bet that I that point I sincerely believe and truly think that there is no one on the face of the planet that is hotter, more sexy, more fuckalicious than they are. And the chemistry will be off the scales for me.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I am beginning to see that those who require "knowing" right away because they do, will find those of us that need to have time with you to know how we feel too slow. And will assume we don't like them. Because we aren't giving signals that we know. Because we don't. It's not personal. We don't know with *anyone* - we can't make snap calls of how we feel about someone we don't know.

It's like someone asking me "do you like my moms vegetable soup?"
And me saying "well I don't know. All I've been able to do is look at it in the bowl, I haven't tried a bowl yet."
"Then you don't like the soup!!!" And they take the soup and leave.
How about letting me slowly savour a bowl, not asking me every two spoonfuls, and being ok with that? Is that possible?

It seems odd to my brain to not allow me to experience something before demanding an answer of if I enjoy the experience or not. I don't expect people to know if they like me or not till we've spend some time together.

This is why some people really frustrate me and hurt my feelings - they are all over being that they like me five minutes after meeting me, then a month later, right when I'm starting to warm up and trust a little and feeling good about this and mebbe sexy times... And they change their mind. They don't. They were mistaken.

That hurts. I'd prefer that they reserved opinion before hand. That hurts less to have someone say "this isn't really my thing" when they never said it was in the first place. Than to have someone be very enthusiastic then change tracks. Makes me trust people even less, makes me even slower to make up my mind. Because I'll want to see if the wind changes first, before I invest.

Am I the only one who does this?

[Kätzchen]

I am beginning to see that those who require "knowing" right away because they do, will find those of us that need to have time with you to know how we feel too slow. And will assume we don't like them. Because we aren't giving signals that we know. Because we don't. It's not personal. We don't know with *anyone* - we can't make snap calls of how we feel about someone we don't know.

It's like someone asking me "do you like my moms vegetable soup?"
And me saying "well I don't know. All I've been able to do is look at it in the bowl, I haven't tried a bowl yet."
"Then you don't like the soup!!!" And they take the soup and leave.
How about letting me slowly savour a bowl, not asking me every two spoonfuls, and being ok with that? Is that possible?

It seems odd to my brain to not allow me to experience something before demanding an answer of if I enjoy the experience or not. I don't expect people to know if they like me or not till we've spend some time together.

This is why some people really frustrate me and hurt my feelings - they are all over being that they like me five minutes after meeting me, then a month later, right when I'm starting to warm up and trust a little and feeling good about this and mebbe sexy times... And they change their mind. They don't. They were mistaken.

That hurts. I'd prefer that they reserved opinion before hand. That hurts less to have someone say "this isn't really my thing" when they never said it was in the first place. Than to have someone be very enthusiastic then change tracks. Makes me trust people even less, makes me even slower to make up my mind. Because I'll want to see if the wind changes first, before I invest.

Am I the only one who does this?

I just came across your post today, but wanted to say that there's probably a strong chance that there's lots of people like you who need time to decide on x, y or z situations. I'm that type of person who needs lots of space, room to decide, and not be pushed into anything. Because if people get pushy with me? Or demanding? Or controlling and/or manipulative?

It's over. I'm done. And that's not to say that I'm a concrete type of thinker, because I'm not.

I hope life has been kind to you and that life, since earning your health license, has opened up a whole new world to you.

:rrose:

[imperfect_cupcake]

Thank you!

I'm learning. I'm finding if I date differently I have fewer problems this way.

I no longer date people who smoke pot every day (hard in Vancouver!)
I no longer date binge drinkers
I no longer date people recently single as they find it too difficult to slow down, mostly.
I no longer date repeating serial monogamist daters (from intense monogamous short term relationship to the next. They really, really want to be in a relationship and figure it out on the fly, rather than be single).
I no longer date people who have mental health issues that have not been addressed and under treatment for less than five years.
I no longer date people who have addiction/drink issues that have not been sober for less than five years.


That generally has removed most of the people who rush or pressure me.
I'm also very up front that I won't a) move cities b) move in with them. Ever.

I'm also just not fond of "new relationship energy." In fact, I hate it. And I'd much rather skip to the part where we are comfortable and less interested in impressing each other. That doesn't come without trust though. So I have to grit my teeth through the bit I loathe... And come across as anti-romantic curmudgeon (unless they have a great sense of irreverent and dark humour, enjoy playful sarcasm and then it's not painful at all, it's fun).

Haven't had any luck. But I'm not trying that hard. Have just assumed I'll be single and have been pretty good with it. I'm hoping for someone who wants and will be happy with a lovely *relaxed* date night once a week between connected and playful individuals. Rather than a live in partner who will look after them and keep their house nice.

Lol I'll let you know when hell freezes over.

[Cin]

31% of both men and women agree that 15 minutes of a date is all it takes to decide.

I can make that decision in less than 2 minutes.

:blink:

Superficial? Nah.

Psychologists have shown it takes between 90 seconds and 4 minutes to decide if you fancy someone.

Research has shown this has little to do with what is said, rather (http://www.youramazingbrain.org/lovesex/sciencelove.htm)


• 55% is through body language
• 38% is the tone and speed of their voice
• Only 7% is through what they say


Although I'm not femme and I don't date anymore, I found this interesting cause it seems to work opposite for me. It's not that I don't know in 90 seconds to 4 minutes if I fancy someone, it is that I learned over time that the person I initially fancy in 2 to 4 minutes is not likely to be the person I end up interested in.

I mean if there is zero or less than zero chemistry, then that is not likely to change over time, but as for anything other than a complete no go, I never knew for sure. Apparently what I was attracted to wasn't really what I was looking for.

Imagine my surprise.

Again and again.

Until I figured out that quirk I have.

Thank goodness all that is over. I haven't had to be puzzled by my lack of interest in what initially attracts me in over 13 years.

The good news for me is that I knew my wife for a year before I ever met her and we were not in a long distance relationship, we were not dating, we were just friends. But knowing her for that length of time made the initial attraction I felt when I met her to be something I could trust because it was also combined with the things I already knew and liked about her.

Anyway, sorry for the compulsion to add my 2 cents but those posts spoke to me and made me think about how weird this dating thing worked for me.

[kittygrrl]

scientific evidence to suggest it boils down to smell..i think initially that makes a lot of sense although in the long run not so much..chemistry definitely makes it interesting in the beginning, but it's not enough to bring truly synergy..to keep you together through the years..it's friendship, it's sacrifice, it's shared values and humor..and so many things you lose count...but they all count.

[Gemme]

scientific evidence to suggest it boils down to smell..i think initially that makes a lot of sense although in the long run not so much..chemistry definitely makes it interesting in the beginning, but it's not enough to bring truly synergy..to keep you together through the years..it's friendship, it's sacrifice, it's shared values and humor..and so many things you lose count...but they all count.

Word.

I don't care how good you smell or how sexy you are. If you can't hold a conversation with me, sometimes even using big words and abstract concepts, then any initial attraction goes down the drain real fast. I like handsome faces and bodies, but if your brain isn't working on all cylinders, that's a big no from me.

Obviously, as I've grown older and wiser, different things tick off different boxes for me. Now, it's less about the butch, FTM or TG version of the Mustang with a Hemi motor and more about the fun but reliable SUV version of a butch, TG or FTM guy.

Sometimes a girl likes to take her time getting to where she's going and likes to know that she'll get there in one piece and without a stopover in jail.

:|

[kittygrrl]

Word.

I don't care how good you smell or how sexy you are. If you can't hold a conversation with me, sometimes even using big words and abstract concepts, then any initial attraction goes down the drain real fast. I like handsome faces and bodies, but if your brain isn't working on all cylinders, that's a big no from me.

Obviously, as I've grown older and wiser, different things tick off different boxes for me. Now, it's less about the butch, FTM or TG version of the Mustang with a Hemi motor and more about the fun but reliable SUV version of a butch, TG or FTM guy.

Sometimes a girl likes to take her time getting to where she's going and likes to know that she'll get there in one piece and without a stopover in jail.

:|

Well I don't disagree with this..older>>wiser..but didn't you say it takes you (up to)2 minutes ? It just depends, I think(for me) I can't argue with your experience Gemme!

[Gemme]

Well I don't disagree with this..older>>wiser..but didn't you say it takes you (up to)2 minutes ? It just depends, I think(for me) I can't argue with your experience Gemme!

I still stand by the fact that I know who and what attract me very quickly. It has been nearly instantaneous in a lot of cases throughout my life.

What I'm saying is that what flips that particular switch for me has changed over the years and that there are cases in which that attraction switch flipped the other way the second someone opened their mouth and revealed various ignorance/prejudice/dumbfoundery.

:blink:

I've always required some sort of tangible intelligence in my partners but as time has gone on, my tolerance for those who don't meet that level has diminished greatly as well as my ability to justify someone being 'almost there' because they were hot and nice to look at.

Looks fade. Pretty fades. Handsome fades. Hot fades.

If there's nothing underneath all of that hotness, there's nothing left.

I demand more than nothing. I deserve more than nothing because I am something and I require someone else's something to match and/or complement my own something.

Does that help clear things up?

[clay]

I still stand by the fact that I know who and what attract me very quickly. It has been nearly instantaneous in a lot of cases throughout my life.

What I'm saying is that what flips that particular switch for me has changed over the years and that there are cases in which that attraction switch flipped the other way the second someone opened their mouth and revealed various ignorance/prejudice/dumbfoundery.

:blink:

I've always required some sort of tangible intelligence in my partners but as time has gone on, my tolerance for those who don't meet that level has diminished greatly as well as my ability to justify someone being 'almost there' because they were hot and nice to look at.

Looks fade. Pretty fades. Handsome fades. Hot fades.

If there's nothing underneath all of that hotness, there's nothing left.

I demand more than nothing. I deserve more than nothing because I am something and I require someone else's something to match and/or complement my own something.

Does that help clear things up?

This is exactly how I think/feel, too!

Being humans, we do have emotions on every level, and initially, we usually do feel great at first meeting. Then down the road, when life is in reality terms, we sometimes find that that person really has nothing under that shiny exterior to hold our interest. Thus it becomes boring...and is difficult at best to maintain a relationship.

I want someone who can converse, who has interests that only grow deeper, feelings that intensify over zest for life, make new discoveries, and find we would actually have some deep down quality attractions that aren't fleeting once those hormones quell.

I totally agree with Gemme on deserving more, having more, and not settling for less.

I won't settle for less than I deserve either!!! I will not give anything less than she deserves either!

I am in with the group of I know immediately within 3 or 4 minutes if I have some deeper connection other than the physical. I look deeper...for to me, it is her mind, her heart, & her soul I fall in love with.....how she carries herself within the world...is she kind to those less fortunate, is she loving of animals & elderly, does she emit that gentle, loving energy outward upon the world. Is she steadfast & grounded....yet having an inner child that she can & does freely let out...anyway......clay...shut up...:seeingstars:.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I'm not really a physical link person. I'm a sapiophile, really and truly.
My attraction is based on humour, banter, and someone "getting" me. That's what flips my chenistry switch. Unfortunately, that can take a few meets with people. So I can't be instantly attracted. I can think someone is hot, physically, but that's about it. And that's not exactly something that sticks around for me. As soon as someone starts talking, they either get more and more attractive over time because I am starting to get revved up.by their intelligence and type of humour, their ability to relax around me, to be informal and cheeky, and see me as a person first, rather than my gender first. Then they *get* supah hot. If they act really formal and polite, talk about nothing I can relate to, view me a femme borg and thus *must* be treated X (don't swear around them, be on best behaviour, potential romantic endeavour only, etc), is more cautious than witty, I'm not going to get turned on. No matter how they look. But it can take up to 3-4 meet ups to figure that out, for me.

But I'm a "p" type that reserves judgement for insane amounts of time.
Many people that I meet that I can't stand initially because I find them abrasive, high maintenance, and self serving, and if I *have* to get to know them (colleague, patient, social situation where I am locked into something for a few days) I find that with some one-on-one time, I discover I actually really enjoy some great qualities about them and I actually like their company.

People I used to have immediate hot chemistry with have pretty much always turned out to be active addicts or heavy drinkers a month down the road. So I am *extremely* wary of that heavy, instant sizzle for some "mysterious" "soul connection" reason. That reason is 99% of the time the co-dependant-addict attraction chenistry.

So I just no longer trust it or go there. In fact, I find that chemistry kind of scary now.

[kittygrrl]

Personally, I believe a pan of brownies can do wonders:jester:

[clay]

Personally, I believe a pan of brownies can do wonders:jester:

here! here! I concur!

[meridiantoo]

I really don't trust grand gestures on first dates, or the first few dates...I've learned the more grandiose the gesture, the more empty it is...my idea of a perfect date is someone who is casual, yet respectful, not entitled or assuming, but hopeful...someone who can enjoy getting to know each other through an uneventful activity. I love when they want to know me, not just me sexually. I love when they don't mention exes or want to know about my past as if I'm under investigation. I love for things to build, gradually.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Treat me like you would any regular non-romantic person you are getting to know. Be yourself. If that means you don't swear, are very polite, are extra careful with your language - showing a depth of feelings and sympathy and seriousness to show what a sensative person you are... I'm going to be strung as tight as a trip wire trying to not offend you and go home with relief and not want another date.

If you are casual, swear, tell irreverent jokes/quips/banter, tease me to watch my face light up and laugh, use sarcasm, don't take life so very very seriously, keep it lighter, I will want another date.

[kittygrrl]

GkfXl_8VngE

[Gemme]

GkfXl_8VngE

Wow.

That's a lot of pressure to put on another human being.

:blink:

I'd be happy with clear and present respect and some good conversation.

[cassiopeia67]

I just asked to be treated with the same kindness, respect and warmth that I will extend to you. :rrose:

[kittygrrl]

like a fine piece of Irish Waterford crystal

[Shystonefem]

For me, it aren't any rules set in stone. I do, however, know within 10 minutes or so.

I have met hot Butches and have been initially attracted, chemistry and all, yet that chemistry fades after I realize the lights are on but nobody is home.

The opposite has also happened. If the chemistry is off the charts, sometimes intelligence takes a back seat. Those relationships don't succeed, and I know that now, but damn.

My perfect scenario, an intelligent, stone butch that I share crazy chemistry with. It has to be there for me. While I love good conversation, I can't do it without chemistry. It's just who I am.

My son tells me that I am wayyy to picky, I'm not. I just know what I want and need in order to put the work in.

[introverted1]

Polite behavior, opening the door for me, etc...those things will make me weak in the knees if we have chemistry.

[Arden]

Its been a while, heck a long while since I did any "dating".....I've been thinking more about it recently and hmmm - I want to feel, while on the date, that I matter enough to you or at least am interesting enough for you to not answer your cell phone or text your buds unless its an emergency. I'm a Mom and completely understand sometimes you gotta answer.

Talk to me, ask me questions, show me you want to know who I am rather than see how long it will take you to get me into bed. Be sweet, respectful and kind but real cause I'm gonna be able to tell if you are faking it. Show me you're a thinker in how you respond to my questions or the topics you bring up. I also don't object to a show of chivalry but I won't expect it either so don't be offended if I am not waiting on you to open my door (I'm used to do things for myself so if I drop back and allow you do it, if I sense you want to, for me consider that a show of respect from me.)

Have a plan for the night...and the ability to flex it if things go awry. (It also helps if you give me some idea of the type of wardrobe needed, so I can dress for the occasion though I too can make it work)

And if its the first time we're going out: Find a way to be at least a little comfortable around me, I understand feeling nervous cause heck I likely will be and you can help put me at ease if you smile, laugh and breathe. I'll try to do the same...

cause maybe then we'll make it a second date :)

[ClintB]

I always keep first dates simple, low cost, low key, noncommittal. I do this for both of our sake. First, let me rephrase that this "date" is rarely classified as such... usually it's just me asking them if they want to grab a coffee or drink with no title. I think it works for a long of reasons.... first, everyone is on neutral, public ground and feels safe. The date can't be easily extended if it's going well, but kept short if it's a no go. In a world that places expectations of sex as a reward for chivalry, it brings it down to a level of "just two people having coffee." Many women are uncomfortable with not being able to pay th or own way (see above) and it lets me gage how she feels... if she doesn't want me buying her coffee... she probably doesn't want me paying for meals and tickets to shows either. i respect her boundaries on this.

Im not big on traditional chivalry... I do think it sets up an unhealthy power dynamic. Maybe better to roll out once we have a connection and both feel on equal footing.


Other than that, I am more of practical, rough and tumble person. I've learn d to play that up rather than down... this means I end up with rough and tumble girls :). I do a lot of picnic packing, drives into the mountain, lakes, beach. Bonfires. I love a good restaurant every now and then, but I prefer having adventures with her, making memories. These thing are rarely free, but often not expensive.

Where I throw that all in the fire is gifts though lol. I'm a sucker for seeing something she may want and wanting to surprise her with it. I try not to let it go to far and I keep it small at first. I don't want her to feel like she is being bought. But as the relationship gets long term, then I like to buy nice things just because.

[Medusa]

Depends on the date!

In general I like a little old school chivalry with opening my car door and doors at restaurants and such but if we are going out to hike around in the woods or something, I don't expect as much formality.
And "expect" is too strong a word because I don't get bent out of shape if someone doesn't open my door or whatever. It's just a nicety.

I also don't need my Butch to always pay or treat me. I enjoy treating just as much!

I do also love the little physical things on dates that make my knees buckle: the hand on the small of my back that guides me through spaces, the firm grip on my hand when we are in a crowd so that we don't get separated, the little buzzy feeling of having my hair smoothed away from my neck so he can go in for a little nibble. Those things don't necessarily need to happen on a date (I like it all the time!) but WHOOSH when they do!

[ClintB]

Ooooops, got carried away and posted in the femme zone... sorry!

[Gemme]

I like to be treated as if I were important and worthy of my partner's time and consideration. I like old school manners and someone who is capable of engaging with me on many levels.

This is a previous post and it still stands true.



Word.

I don't care how good you smell or how sexy you are. If you can't hold a conversation with me, sometimes even using big words and abstract concepts, then any initial attraction goes down the drain real fast. I like handsome faces and bodies, but if your brain isn't working on all cylinders, that's a big no from me.

Obviously, as I've grown older and wiser, different things tick off different boxes for me. Now, it's less about the butch, FTM or TG version of the Mustang with a Hemi motor and more about the fun but reliable SUV version of a butch, TG or FTM guy.

Sometimes a girl likes to take her time getting to where she's going and likes to know that she'll get there in one piece and without a stopover in jail.

:|

[girl_dee]

Electrocell you and i chatted about this before, and i have thought about it since then..

IMO regarding flowers or any other nicety, it depends on the conversations and situation leading up to the "meeting".

Showing up to pick someone up at home for a date, with some flowers.. to be escorted on a date can be a good thing.

If iv'e been chatting to you online and you show up with a bouquet of flowers at a concert for example, at out first meeting i may feel uncomfy about that. Especially if i don't like attention drawn to myself, that would be overdoing it for me. Trying too hard. Just meet me for some conversation and coffee in clean clothes, sober, with your respect in tact and that would go way further than flowers.

i do agree first dates are about getting to know each other. i've never been impressed with flowers per se, now a nice fishing rod, that would impress me. At least it required a thought process about me.

However, i do like a simple daisy.


Update!

It depends on who the date is with. If we are romantically involved, please do go all out. At this stage in my life i would like to know i am important and that you are present with me. i've never liked the attention that spoiling me comes with, but i am over it. Spoil me.

If we are on a first date you obviously have my interest. Talk about something engaging, lose the cellphone, notice me and expect me to notice you. On a first date i am about gathering information, and to see if there will be a second. Maybe they won't want a second, and thats fine too.

Be a good tipper if you are paying and walk me to my car.

Don't forget to make sure i got home okay.


(f)

[PlatinumPearl]

Respectfully and like a Lady.

[kittygrrl]

I like to be treated well:readrules::bicycle:

[gotoseagrl]

This is difficult to find these days. Especially the latter part. No one has attentive time or interest. So many are constantly absorbed with themselves, social media and what is always going on with everyone else. Some don't understand what substance really is, at an intimate level, at least to a girl who has a very active & deep multi-faceted mind and soul.

I like old school manners and someone who is capable of engaging with me on many levels.

[girl_dee]

This is difficult to find these days. Especially the latter part. No one has attentive time or interest. So many are constantly absorbed with themselves, social media and what is always going on with everyone else. Some don't understand what substance really is, at an intimate level, at least to a girl who has a very active & deep multi-faceted mind and soul.

i totally agree. if i feel i have lost someones attention to social media or a cellphone, while on a date, i check out.

[gotoseagrl]

It would be nice to be on an actual date. I don't think I've ever been taken on a real date before. I'm not hard to please, but spontaneously stopping at local fast food doesn't count anymore.

[Kätzchen]

Treat me like I'm Waterford Crystal ......

[homoe]

Treat me like I'm Waterford Crystal ......

You mean delicately or spray a bit of Windex on ya to shine ya up......:giggle:

[Kätzchen]

You mean delicately or spray a bit of Windex on ya to shine ya up......:giggle:

Thou shalt not spray any windex on me, like in the film, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, *LOL* :giggle:

<<<<~~ Delicate, very delicate (but durable). :eyebat:

[Medusa]

I enjoy old school chivalry with the flowers and door-opening and a fancy dinner and a certain "formality".

But I also enjoy super casual dates in jeans and heels where we are eating chicken wings and drinking beer and watching the game.

[girl_dee]

thinking on this it depends on who the date is with.

One common thing is being able to have a decent conversation and have a laugh..

[Lovebird_1989]

I've never been on a date before, so I don't know what use I'd be answering this.
My favourite is if they were really respectful, that would make me so happy!

I would also like

ermm ...

Good manners/politeness to the staff, wherever we go.
No loudness.
No drunkness.
Someone who doesn't keep looking at their phone (I hate this, it makes me feel like shit :( ).
Someone who can keep a conversation going (because I don't know how to).
No butting in/talking over me when I eventually do manage a sentence out.
...
No constant bragging/showing off/me me me.
No looking at other women, ever (instant deal breaker)!
No extravagance (unless it's a mutual decision), I cannot handle it. I'd be so happy going to McDonald's, or the likes, and always splitting the bill. I also really hate surprises, of any kind (they freak me out).
....
Make sure I got home safely.

.......

I can't think of any more, at the moment. Just to get to know each other and hopefully fall in love.

I really don't know. No one's ever treated me special, in that way. I think it might weird me out a wee bit.
I think I'd cope with 'normalness'(?).



Omg, I've just re-read what I've written and I sound so bossy! .. Dreading posting this.

[Lovebird_1989]

Whenever my Mum would go on dates with her ex, he would always order more food whenever it was his turn to pay. She didn't like this.

She wants to be put on a pedestal, and to feel like number 1.

[Lovebird_1989]

he would always order more food whenever it was his turn to pay. She didn't like this.


OOPS! I meant to write "whenever it was HER turn to pay". It won't let me edit it, sorry!

[imperfect_cupcake]

I'm not dating right now (just being single for the moment).

I don't date people I don't know. So I don't do blind first dates. Got sick and tired of meeting people for the first time on a first date.

So, we will be hanging out (just having a meal together, or coffee, talking - talking is a big part of getting to know you, maybe doing a couple things of shared interest), not dating, till I know you well enough to know if I *want* a date with you and you with me.

Dates I like?

Shared interests:

science stuff! - visit the particle collider at UBC, go to the science museum, get tickets to Nerd Night, or tickets to any of the science shows or lectures, history of science or medicine, or philosophy.

anything to do with museums, galleries, planetarium, or aquarium.

go to a lake for a swim, or wading at Spanish Banks or any UBC beaches.

cinema at the Rio/Cinematique (alternative cinemas that show non-hollywood or "B" flicks).

go to a sci fi fan light show at the planetarium or a documentary at the IMAX.

take out sushi lunch on the rooftop garden of my building.

Please don't get drunk or smoke pot during our date (or before). Have a drink or two, sure - but anything past a bit tipsy is a turn off. Save the joint for when you are with your mates or on your own - if you can't, then I'm not a person to date for you.

Please don't expect me to talk with you every day. Please have your own life, your own friends, your own hobbies. I want to share some of those with you, not merge into each other.

My job is really physical (so physical the government guidelines are no more than 24 hours of work in a week) so I don't want to hike a mountain or go snow shoeing on my days off.

If we get to know each other well enough that I think we'll get on for longer blocks of time together, then I'll be happy to go on three day "camping" trips that don't require me sleeping on the ground. Cards, board games, and movies in those evenings; swimming, snorkeling, lake, forest or beach walks in the afternoons. Tea in bed with books and sex in the morning. I LOVE a lay in! Lovely brunches with a view.

3 day city breaks are fun too! Exploring new cities.

I'd love to have a week holiday in Istanbul or Marrakech.

[Femmewench]

As I was reading these, it struck me I hadn't had a first date at all. Ever. My dates were usually extended visits to me and not a single, "let's do this on this date and time." That made me sad.
I don't expect a gift unless we've been communicating for long enough for you to know what might be appropriate. Best gift I ever got were door pulls in the shape of a pink heart and a pink star.
Please don't bring flowers. You probably won't know that I love carnations. Also, if I have a cat (I don't at the present time) flowers are a nuisance as I don't know a cat that doesn't love them.
Be clear up front. I was brought up that the inviter paid unless something else was agreed upon in advance. I don't mind going dutch given the price of everything these days.
You should be sparling clean; it's not necessary that the exterior of your car match. The interior should be clean (I'm never driving on a date. Oh wait, I only have a scooter now. Never mind.)
Please don't plan to spend a lot of money. This is a first date. I'll be more impressed by you than by what we do. Please make it somewhere we can talk and hear each other. You know the restaurants you can't hear yourself think much less anyone else speak; avoid them. No coffee houses please; I don't drink coffee and the scent of coffee does not appeal to me.
What you do and how you do it will factor in to the decision on a second date.

[Femmewench]

It would be nice to be on an actual date. I don't think I've ever been taken on a real date before. I'm not hard to please, but spontaneously stopping at local fast food doesn't count anymore.

:::thinking somebody should remedy this:::

[Deborah*]

I was talking to someone in the chat room the other night and I made the remark that I can't afford date anyone right now. The femme I was talking to asked me why I feel that it takes money, and for me it comes down to how I treat a femme on a date.

I personally would really like to know how to be a better date so that someday, if I ever can afford to date again, I can do it better. Thanks in advance!


It really doesn't take money to date a person. If I was interested in dating anyone (I'm not)
these are... Dates I would enjoy, that I'm writing about because you can use them in your situation.

movie night at home (a nice film - or just a great tv show, bowl of cherries, plate of cheese and crackers). Cost- maybe $10? You can leave the cherries out if you like.
The price could be less just by having dinner at home with the movie - salad fixings are cheap.

going for a hike where it may be scenic (bring water and a snack, and a blanket to sit on). With some great conversation and maybe birds nearby or wildlife.


How would I want to be treated?
Hold the door open for me, help me be seated at the table. Intellectual conversation. Absolutely no sexual moves (it would be too early in the dating time period), look into my eyes, act like what you genuinely are - a person of class and taste.

Years ago, this butch in Malibu I was interested in would use scented dryer sheets when doing laundry.. and his shirts would be soft and the scent was nice. I'm saying this as an idea for the butches reading this.

Just some ideas for you...
Here's wishing you all the best.

Deborah

[thevisablefemme]

I was talking to someone in the chat room the other night and I made the remark that I can't afford date anyone right now. The femme I was talking to asked me why I feel that it takes money, and for me it comes down to how I treat a femme on a date.

For *ME*, it takes money to date a femme properly. No, I would never take a femme to McDonald's for a date. I may not take her to the fanciest place for dinner, but it should be nice. 60$ is not an unreasonable amount to spend on a nice meal with a girl. Then there is all the grooming. A fresh haircut every 2 weeks; getting a car wash before each date because who wants to be picked up in a dirty car??; Having freshly cleaned and pressed clothes that are dress-casual to dressy. (Jeans are fine if you have a dress shirt and tie to go with them.) And, bring her a small gift with each date, usually flowers, but it could be something else that she likes, such as candy or something else. Buy her drinks if you are at a bar.

Things that don't cost money but are essential to me are: Be freshly showered before each date! Open every door for her; pull out her chair for her; allow her to order her food first; ask her first if you want to hold her hand or kiss her (that's just good manners). If you like how she looks or her smile or how she smells or the things that she says, or wears, then tell her. Let her talk about herself, and don't dominate the conversation with things about you. Don't use a lot of swear words. Don't talk about your exes!! Don't be in a rush to get into bed; try to get to know her, who she is and what she is like. Listen to her. Ask her what kind of things she enjoys doing, what kind of food she likes, etc. so if she agrees to another date, you can plan your next date around things she enjoys. Don't do the same thing every single date - try to plan a variety of activities. Thank her for spending time with you, and if you really like her and want to see her again, don't wait more than 2 days to call her. Don't call her the very next day, either. Give room, but not too much room. Don't blow up her phone with text messages either, but saying you had a good time is important.

The person I was discussing this with said she had never been treated this way on a date, and I was kind of surprised. She told me I should start a thread about dating, so here it is:

Femmes, how do you like to be treated on a date? I think all of us people on the masculine spectrum should know what you ladies would like and what you think is important. I know not all femmes are the same and like the exact same things, so having as much feed back as possible is really appreciated! Also, some feed back about what NOT to do would be helpful too! Stories about both good dates and bad ones are welcome! I personally would really like to know how to be a better date so that someday, if I ever can afford to date again, I can do it better. Thanks in advance!
so basically all the things you said are spot on what I would expect as far as taking the time with you appearance, having a clean car and just overall showing that level of respect to your date. I know that a lot of girls do like to be spoiled and I am guilty as charged..however romantic gestures and putting a lot of thought into something will get you far even if you aren't spending a lot of money. maybe a quick drink followed by some romantic sight seeing or exploring a beautiful place in nature
i've always been the most impressed when a date remembers something i said or an interest of mine and then plans our time together around that. just the fact that you care that much to please me is a turn on. nothing is more attractive than a women with a plan not just a "what do you wanna do", uhhh idk"
, especially in the very early stages this really impresses me. say she loves horror films ? maybe visit a pumpkin patch and pick one to carve followed by netflix binging on scary movies after . complete with popcorn and of course cuddling. femmes loves that shit lol
remember even though the gold star femmes are out there many of he girls ur dating have been with men before aka extremely thoughtless for he most past when it comes to this stuff so you have a lot to work with and it usually doesn't take much more than thoughtfulness to really wow them and have them how romantic and considerate you are.

[lisa93]

I like for the girl I'm with to have everything planned out, and be creative with it.

[Deborah*]

I want to be treated like a lady. I want the door opened for me, I want the chair pulled out for me, if we're at a restaurant, flowers would be a nice touch but not necessary, good intelligent conversation. Of course (it's obvious therefore I shouldn't even have to write this) a clean car- inside and out is important.

Deborah

[Esme nha Maire]

I think it depends on the type of person you're dating. The original poster remarked about their inability to date due to finances. Well, there are many things in life that are easier with money, but also many that are necessary for ones well-being, money or no.

If the kind of person that turns you on is a full-on high-maintenance Femme that you know expects (demands?) to be wined and dined, well, you have your situation clearly laid out for you, don't you? If you haven't got the finances then your chances with them may be limited. But not every femme is like that.

I'd say courtesy and a reasonable degree of adaptability are more important - for both people involved in the date. And yes, make an effort with your appearance by all means, but make sure it's YOU that you're presenting, not some stereotype that is purely for the purpose of luring 'em in.

Butch or Femme or wherever one is on the spectrum, not everyone has money to spare, but everyone needs affection, and it pains me to see people believing that they have to be rich to go seek that special someone. I've experienced being wined and dined, but the person I fell deeply in love with was as poor as I, and the simple pleasure of being in their company and doing things together sufficed, for me, be that watching a video at their place, or having a cuppa in a cafe after some window-shopping and a walk in the park.

Just being with Them, and knowing that They are as interested in you as you are in Them is magical - for me. Dating is not just for the rich. Money can make life easier - but it doesn't create affection, and ultimately, that's what dating is about, no?

[Mopsie]

I think it depends on the type of person you're dating. The original poster remarked about their inability to date due to finances. Well, there are many things in life that are easier with money, but also many that are necessary for ones well-being, money or no.

If the kind of person that turns you on is a full-on high-maintenance Femme that you know expects (demands?) to be wined and dined, well, you have your situation clearly laid out for you, don't you? If you haven't got the finances then your chances with them may be limited. But not every femme is like that.

I'd say courtesy and a reasonable degree of adaptability are more important - for both people involved in the date. And yes, make an effort with your appearance by all means, but make sure it's YOU that you're presenting, not some stereotype that is purely for the purpose of luring 'em in.

Butch or Femme or wherever one is on the spectrum, not everyone has money to spare, but everyone needs affection, and it pains me to see people believing that they have to be rich to go seek that special someone. I've experienced being wined and dined, but the person I fell deeply in love with was as poor as I, and the simple pleasure of being in their company and doing things together sufficed, for me, be that watching a video at their place, or having a cuppa in a cafe after some window-shopping and a walk in the park.

Just being with Them, and knowing that They are as interested in you as you are in Them is magical - for me. Dating is not just for the rich. Money can make life easier - but it doesn't create affection, and ultimately, that's what dating is about, no?

I could not have said this better myself! I definitely enjoy the little things like talking, affection, thoughtfulness shown by remembering things about me or things I like. I don't need all the gifts and flowers and things.

[~ocean]

I adore a butch that I am dating to have all the qualities that a person with integrity would have ~ as well as being romantic ~ knowing I LOVE little gifts impromptu in shiny wrapping paper ~ cologne , combs for my hair , nail polish's , or a pair of silk panty hose etc. When I knew I liked them enough to date so many of the caring, and their own ways of loving had all ready been a part of them or my interest never would have been peeked. The romantic little gifts , gestures, and requirement...... is such a turn on ! ohhhh baby babyyyy ~

[kittygrrl]

..like i matter

[VintageFemme]

How do I like to be treated on a date? I remembering answering this one awhile back but here it is again, like the fucking queen I am!

However since I first posted that whenever that was, my dating life has diminished quite a bit and now? I would just like to be treated to a freaking cup of coffee. LoLoL

[VintageFemme]

I like for the girl I'm with to have everything planned out, and be creative with it.

...but, I really like this. Very much.

[ardentfemme]

Wow, this is a really fascinating discussion.

It's something I've thought a lot about, as a very feminine woman, but also as a huge feminist. I've often asked myself, "To what degree are gender roles involved in dating? To what degree should they be involved?"

For example, I think it's pretty unfair to assume that the more masculine person in the relationship should pay for everything. The rule I always go by is whoever asks out the other person should at least offer to pay on the first date. I think that's a nice gesture to show someone you value their time. But afterward, on second and third dates, things should be a bit more equal, like "Oh you got the cab, let me get the drinks!"

Because in the same way that femmes (and straight women, too) don't like to feel taken advantage of for sex, butches (and masculine folks more broadly) don't want to feel taken advantage of financially (I would assume.)

On the other hand, I have to say that as a femme, some of the dynamics of a date are inherently related to gender. So, in the interest of trying to help atomiczombie, here's a little list of things I feel are important:

1. Respect and attention - I don't mean to be redundant, since a lot of femmes have already mentioned this, but just turning your phone off and being present during the date is essential. I think the most valuable thing you can offer someone is your time and if you're constantly texting, that's a big red flag!

2. Honestly some chivalrous stuff like holding the door open for her doesn't hurt. Part of me wants to say that's some archaic heteronormative bullshit but the other part of me loves it!! Why is this so attractive?? Someone needs to answer that for me :P

3. Maybe the most important component is planning a date according to your date's interests. I once had someone take me to a sushi place even though I'm vegetarian. It was awkward and I felt so bad for not eating anything!

4. Just make it clear that you have a real interest in getting to know her as a person! Like you mentioned, don't dominate the conversation and don't ask invasive questions.

5. Like everyone else is saying, don't worry too much about money! Some of the best dates are cheap - like picnics. I've always wanted to go on a hike for a date, but maybe that's a better second or third date idea, once you get to know each other a bit more. :)

I hope this was at least somewhat helpful!! Just don't worry too much and try to have fun!

[clay]

cut & pasted from ardentfemme's above post...

2. Honestly some chivalrous stuff like holding the door open for her doesn't hurt. Part of me wants to say that's some archaic heteronormative bullshit but the other part of me loves it!! Why is this so attractive?? Someone needs to answer that for me :P



For me, it has to do with showing courtesy & respect.... I open doors for someone as courtesy, it is just part of my core being, my own self respect of others.......it is having good manners...it is being spontaneous and not performing or being expected to do so...perhaps therein lies your own attraction for having that done so by butches rather than straight men...

Hope this makes some sort of sense to you ardent....


Perhaps you find it attractive when the butch does it as she is hopefully actually showing good manners & respect...

[introverted1]

I think it depends on the type of person you're dating. The original poster remarked about their inability to date due to finances. Well, there are many things in life that are easier with money, but also many that are necessary for ones well-being, money or no.

If the kind of person that turns you on is a full-on high-maintenance Femme that you know expects (demands?) to be wined and dined, well, you have your situation clearly laid out for you, don't you? If you haven't got the finances then your chances with them may be limited. But not every femme is like that.

I'd say courtesy and a reasonable degree of adaptability are more important - for both people involved in the date. And yes, make an effort with your appearance by all means, but make sure it's YOU that you're presenting, not some stereotype that is purely for the purpose of luring 'em in.

Butch or Femme or wherever one is on the spectrum, not everyone has money to spare, but everyone needs affection, and it pains me to see people believing that they have to be rich to go seek that special someone. I've experienced being wined and dined, but the person I fell deeply in love with was as poor as I, and the simple pleasure of being in their company and doing things together sufficed, for me, be that watching a video at their place, or having a cuppa in a cafe after some window-shopping and a walk in the park.

Just being with Them, and knowing that They are as interested in you as you are in Them is magical - for me. Dating is not just for the rich. Money can make life easier - but it doesn't create affection, and ultimately, that's what dating is about, no?


This, completely.

Being wined and dined is NOT my cup of tea. I almost insist upon cooking, because what I do in the kitchen is almost as amazing as what I do in the bedroom...or whereever...; )

My favorite activity is hiking, thrift shops, art museums, etc....very low cost venues.

I don't need fancy or wealthy, I need present and kind.