Gender Evolution - Your Coming of Age Stories

[Medusa]

I wanna hear em'!

[Bit]

What? Nobody's started yet?

I'll be back after I walk the doglet.

[Darth Denkay]

I'll bite...

Let's see, for many many many years I didn't understand the distinction between sex (biological) and gender (social construct/emotional/mental). When I was younger (elementary age maybe) I knew I was a lot more like the boys but didn't really know what that meant. And at the time I don't think it really mattered much. I was seen as a tomboy, allowed to do what I wanted, so my sex wasn't really much of an issue.

My first sense of being a little two different was during middle school when all my female friends went ga-ga over guys and I was feeling it - this ga-ga thing - for the girls. This was my first sense that all was not right with me. I knew enough not to talk about it. This was when I started to get some pressure from society (although not from my parents) that maybe I should grow my hair out, try a little make-up, and it wouldn't kill me to wear a dress once in a while. Course the idea of wearing a dress - to me - did almost feel like it could be fatal. In any case, I didn't do any of these things that I was supposed to do as a girl, and life still wasn't too complicated. In my mind I saw myself as the 'romantic partner' of the girls. Lots of crushes, lots of fantasies - about lots of girls - I was definitely a fantasy stud. At this point it really wasn't sexual for me - this was in the 80s when sex was really uncommon until high school, but I was definitely feeling something 'more than friends' towards a lot of female friends. Of course, at this point it really worked in my favor because I went to a few slumber parties - oh yeah, that's what I'm talking about!!!!

It was during high school that things really began to become an issue. I still was completely uncomfortable with the thought of makeup, dresses, long hair. On occasion I wore a dress, very rarely, just when Mom said that I really had to (weddings I remember were one such event). I did wear pants and button-ups to church - my mom overall totally let me be me. It was sometime during high school that I found a label that seemed to describe me - lesbian - but it wasn't something I talked about to anyone. This was also the time when my sex/gender became an issue for me internally. Puberty brought on changes that illuminated the difference between myself and the boys - it made it much more difficult to see myself as one of the guys. Thing is, I still really couldn't see myself as one of the girls either. What the hell was I???????????

In college I came out as gay. Overall it was a really positive experience, and removed some of the pressure to look like a girl. Even so, it didn't really relieve my internal sense that something wasn't quite right. I knew that beyond being gay, I was still really different than others of my sex. I also accepted the gender binary - I had to be either a girl or a boy. I felt a lot more like a boy. So here began the thought that maybe I was supposed to be a boy. I knew a little about transsexuals and wondered if that was what I was. It was a really scary thought for me, because while I had other gay friends and lots of supportive straight friends, I knew no one who was transgendered, and somehow that just seemed like a really horrid possibility.

After college I read a book by Fausto-Sterling - Sexing the Body. This was the first time I had any exposure to the possibility that gender was distinct from sex and might be more than just male and female. This was an amazing thought to me. I read what I could find on it, and although the books gave me somewhat a sense that maybe I wasn't a total freak, I still knew no one else like me.

It was 1999. I was 26 years old. I met a woman who identified as a femme. I had no idea what that meant. We became good friends, and through her I learned about this community called butch-femme. She explained a lot, and from there I hit the internet. I found a web-site that would change my life. I found others like me. I learned that gender really was so much more than male and female. I realized that transitioning was not the only option I had. I realized I didn't have to defined by my physical sex.

During the ten years I was involved on the site (for the first 5 years only as a lurker) my gender has shifted. I started as a lesbian who was uncomfortable with gender, who didn't understand my own. I claimed butch as my gender because it recognized - celebrated - my strong association with masculinity. I added trans because while I didn't feel like a woman, I also didn't feel totally like a guy either. I found a place where I wasn't in a box, where my gender was my own to define and describe as it fit for me. I also stopped identifying as a lesbian, for two reasons. One, I no longer identified as a woman so really wasn't a lesbian. Two, I knew that my attractions were towards a specific type of woman - a femme - and that many femmes did not identify as a lesbian either. I comfortably identify as gay (although within the butch-femme community technically I'm attracted to the opposite gender, which would make me straight...but that's an entirely different thread).

I have no plans at this time to transition. I do want chest surgery - at the very least an extreme reduction if not complete removal. In this way I guess I am uncomfortable with my female body. Beyond that, right now, the rest is okay.

My sex = female - biological
My gender = trans butch - because it's who I am

[Darth Denkay]

Okay folks, I wanna hear your stories. I didn't write mine out for my health. So come on, get with it! Seriously though, we all experience an evolution of gender. Even straight folks do but they never have to actually pay any attention to it. So butch, femme, however you identify, you better share. Don't make me have to be a mean little ewok (remember, we defeated the empire, don't fuck with us)...

[atomiczombie]

As early as 2 years old, I hated the dresses my mom would put me in to go to church. I never liked all the girly, frilly things in my bedroom or closet. I can remember at 3 years old, my favorite shirt was a beige sweatshirt with bugs bunny on it. With that and jeans and sneakers, I was totally me. At age 5, the winter olympics were on and Dorothy Hammil, the famous figure skater was on tv. I can remember my mother saying how she liked her short hair, and I told my mom I wanted my hair short like that. I was allowed to get my hair cut short for the first time in my life, and I loved it. I was often mistaken for a boy by strangers, which I loved too.

Later that same year, (1976) I finally figured out that I wasn't really a girl. I had crushes on little girls in my class at school, and ran around with the boys when they let me. I coveted my brother's toys and hated the barbies my folks got me for christmas. I began announcing to anyone who would listen, that I wanted to be a boy. The reception of this news was met by either dismissal, laughter or shame. My mother told me I wasn't a boy, that I was a girl and that was that. I was silly to think otherwise, and told to stop such nonsense. My heart was broken.

I remember in first grade, crushing on this little girl with long brown hair in my class. I opened doors for her, pulled out her chair and scooted her in to her desk, and followed her around like a puppy. One day, I boldly confessed to her that I loved her. Many people found this amusing, however my teacher did not and called my folks. I was lectured to leave her alone, so I did. My heart was broken again.

I resigned myself to being a girl with great sadness when I hit puberty. I quit playing little league baseball and was pressured to conform to the gender expectations of my sex by everyone in my life. I was made fun of by other kids, particularly my older brother, and no longer tolerated as a "tomboy". So, I grew my hair out just to get people off my back.

When my body began to change, I was horrified and miserable. Growing breasts, hips widening, new body hair, menstruating; it all was sickening to me. I hated it. But there was nothing I could do. I still refused to wear dresses, and wore jeans and androgenous clothes as much as possible, but the pressure to be feminine was HUGE. I think this was the first point (but most definitely not the last) in my life when I thought about suicide. I was so depressed. But I decided that what I felt and wanted just wasn't important to anyone, and my only value in life was connected with living up to other people's expectations of me.

So I tried to conform. I tried to wear make-up and act like my female friends, to fit in. I fell in with the drug-using crowd and got high to escape my misery. I pretended to crush on guys, all the while lying to myself about my real feelings. I ignored and suppressed my true self in order to survive my teenage years. By age 15, I was drug-addicted and cutting myself. I swallowed a whole bottle of prescription decongestants and slept for almost 20 hours, awakening to the worst headache ever and wishing I had never awakened at all.

Long story short, I went to an in-patient drug rehab and psych ward, where I was diagnosed bipolar. Then next 10 years I was clean of drugs and alcohol, but miserably depressed. In my mid to late 20s, I finally saw a therapist who helped me process all the painful things that happened in my life. At age 28, I began to talk about my feelings for girls, that I had repressed for so many years.

I finally came out as a lesbian at age 29, and met my future wife that year as well. I fell madly for her and although my hair was still long, our dynamic was clearly butch/femme. I didn't have a name for it at that time, but as I was more involved with the gay community, I began to see that some other gay women had a similar dynamic. By age 31, I was finally able to embrace my masculinity and call myself butch. Cutting my hair and shopping in the mens department was very scary, but insanely liberating. A great weight had been lifted from my shoulders, and I felt so much better about me. My wife, however, did not feel the same. She eventually asked me to grow out my hair again and said ugly things to me like, "if I wanted to be with a man I would be with one." This and many other issues eventually led to our separation in 2005. Our divorce was official in 2006.

After the end of my marriage, I found a new freedom. And, I found the butch-femme community online and in the SF bay area, where I lived at the time. It was here, in this community, that I learned that sex and gender were not the same and that many people like myself considered themselves transgendered and preferred male pronouns. That totally resonated with me. As I began to hear the stories of other transguys, I realized that so much of their stories were my story too.

In 2006, I told my very good femme friend Nicole and my buddy Sugar, that I preferred male pronouns. Nicole immediately announced that I needed a new name, and went to work thinking of one for me. She tried out a few that I didn't like, then one day left a text message on my phone. It said she thought of the perfect name for me: Drew, and that I had to say yes to that one because she already changed my name in her phone to Drew, LOL. I thought about it for a while. I found myself sitting at my desk at work and practicing my signature: Drew Nelson. It seemed to fit. In December 2007 that became my legal name.

My journey continues. I am determined to start testosterone at the beginning of this next year. I want to have chest reconstruction surgery, and I'm currently trying to figure out how to raise the money for it. I am grateful to everyone in the community for helping me with my journey, and I am on my way to being the guy I was always meant to be. :)

[MrSunshine]

I was just born like this. Imagine mommy dearests surprise.:readfineprint:

[Bit]

I haven't got the energy to write anything more today--at least nothing deep *wry smile*--but I promise I really will be back.

Here's a beginning for you to hold hostage against my return: I was born a girl, and I always knew I was supposed to be a girl, but I never fit in anyway....

[Just_G]

I did not see this thread here and accidentally started one very similar today...oops! Oh well, right? :)

So here is something I posted several years ago in my blog:

Being me has been a hard road mentally. I know we all have our stuff, and I am not saying that mine is any worse than anyone elses, so please don't get me wrong. I just want to let you into my head, into some of my thoughts, my past, my journey, and let you see what makes me tick the way I do. Perhaps this explains why I am the forgiving person that I am; something a lot of people have never understood about me.

You see, growing up, I thought I was a boy. For the first ten years of my life, I was a boy. It sucked when mom put me in those dresses, it sucked when I had to wear tights, it sucked when I had to get my hair curled for family functions and school. I was a boy, I wasn't supposed to be doing all of this. Why did all of that have to take place?

Then, it started to happen. I started looking like a girl. Things were going on with my body that weren't happening to all my other guy friends. When this started to happen, they quit wanting to go ride bikes, play ball, climb trees, and go goof off at the park picking on all the squealy girls. I was floored that they didn't want to be my friend any more. To top it all off, my parents divorced. So, now you have a pre-pubescent, confused, pre-teen that thought she was a boy, torn up by a not so pretty divorce. I started pulling my hair, getting little bald patches on the back of my head....all of this stress triggered TrichoTilloMania; a hairpulling disorder that is usually caused by traumatic events in one's life. (www.trich.org) Boy, if I wasn't different before, I sure was now.

I went through jr. high getting tripped, getting the books knocked out of my hands, getting my locker slammed, and getting called every name in the book that they could think of. "baby dyke"..."hello, you are a girl!"...."lesbo"...."freak"....."baldy"....I hated going to the girls locker room, I didn't belong there. I hated school. I quit sports, the one thing that set me apart from all the other girls and made me happy. I didn't have many friends....I was a freak in my own head, I didn't need them to tell me that. I just wanted to be one of the boys going into the other locker room. I didn't want to shave my legs and deal with monthly girl issues. I just wanted to be with the guys.

High school came and it couldn't end soon enough. I tried to grow my hair, put on make up, and carry a purse just so I would fit in with the other girls....it didn't work, it was too late. They all knew....."she's a dyke" I would hear them say. "No I'm not, I am just one of the guys" is what would pound through my head. I wanted to play football and fit in where I thought I belonged. I was a jock, and had no way of proving who I really was. Doing this whole drag routine and trying to fit in with a bunch of girly girls was not making my life easy at all. To compound the problem, I still pulled my hair. I wore hats when I could so nobody would see what they were doing to me when they were so hateful. My own family told me to "just quit it", but how could they understand? They had no idea what I went through on a daily basis!

I have always been a boy in my head. When I look in the mirror, I don't see a female. I see one of the guys. To go through my entire life, knowing I was born in the wrong body has been such a rollercoaster for me. At several points in my life, I wanted to kill myself. I just wanted it to end....all the hate that I had for myself for being so different was driving me to suicide quicker than the hate around me. Then, when I was 21, my cousin Rob committed suicide. I saw what it did to my family, how it tore them up, how they didn't understand why he did it....how it just shattered that part of my family. I could never do to them what he did. He just saved my life without even knowing it. To this day, my family doesn't know it. I want to tell them, but I don't think they would understand. I had to find a way to go on and not think those thoughts, but it was hard. They always sat in the back of my mind.

For years I ran around with the andro lesbian crowd, because we all had that one thing in common, we all liked girls. I happened to look like a girl, so it was a well suited disguise. I never liked the term lesbian; I didn't want to date the butchy looking girls; I liked the girly ones. I still do to this day....

Then, it happened, light had arrived at the end of the depression tunnel. 8 years ago I discovered the butch/femme website, I thought I had struck gold. There were all kinds of butches on there that didn't want to be called "she" either. I developed a brotherhood of butch friends that understood where I was coming from. I met femme girls that thrived on our masculinity. People that I had never met in person understood me and accepted me more than the people in my every day life. "I am not the only person that feels like this....I am not a freak!!" No more suicidal thoughts, I now had the support of this wonderful on-line community. I read and read all of the threads, and I read stories similar to mine. Butches and FtMs that had some of the same experiences....people that felt as trapped in their biologically female bodies as I do in mine. I felt at peace, at home with these people.

For a long time, I thought that the only way I would ever be happy would be to transition to live as a male. (some days I still think about it) I seriously thought about taking testosterone and changing my gender all together.....but, would that truly make me happy? No, because then I would have lost my family and a lot of my friends along the way. I didn't want that. I just wanted to be me. My therapist asked me one day; "what would be the ideal solution for you?" I told him that if I could have a chest reconstruction and a hysterectomy, I could live like that the rest of my life. I want no association with the physical female part of me, the daily/monthly things that remind me that I am not a biological male. My therapist told me to do what it takes to create my own life, then go out and live it. He was right, and that is what I have done. I have since then had a hysto, and plan on having my chest done some day.

It has taken years of self discovery, but I finally accept myself and all the qualities that make me who I am. I am not a freak. I am not a male. I am not a female. I am transgender....a perfect mix of both worlds in my eyes. I accept, that in everyone else's eyes, I may be "different", but to me, I am normal. This is who I am supposed to be. I am not sure why I was chosen for this once, really confusing life; why anyone would have to go through their life not knowing who or what they are. I might not find that reason, ever.

I still have to deal with the derogetory terms, the negativity, the ignorance, and the downright hatred. In fact, I still have bad dreams from a recent experience in my life. An experience that has made me realize that some people think they understand, they say they do, but they truly don't. When they say negative things in regard to my transgender identity, I don't fight back or try to hurt them with words, that would only be doing to them what has been done to me all along. I want to pull them aside and explain to them; to help them understand that not everyone is like them. I can't get mad at them, they simply do not understand.

I hate that I have to explain why I don't dress like a girl, why I don't label myself as a "lesbian", why I don't shave my legs, and why I really don't mind when someone calls me "sir". However, it is something I will have to do the rest of my life, I accept that. For the most part, I just let it be, but when I meet new people, I want them to understand that about me. I feel if I do this, perhaps someday they might meet someone that is like me, and be more understanding and accepting of them. It is my own form of 'pay it forward'....

Peace-
G

[Scorp]

Ok, here it is:

I knew I was different from a very young age. I remember pouting every time I was put in a dress with frilly lace and tights. My mother would tell me she would have to change me at least 3 times a day, because at the end of the day, my dresses and tights would practically be shredded. I was always rough on my feet and my shoes would wear out. I loved playing with my brother's train set, matchbox cars, racetracks, climbed fences and trees, etc. Nothing lady like about me. Would forever be told to cross my legs when you sit, don't keep them spread apart, bla bla bla.

In grammar school, I was a tomboy and had a lot of friends. I had female best friends and loved them like sisters. To this day, I have my sister friends who i'm close with. I would try to like boys because growing up, I thought it was the right thing to do. From the age of 4 I would continuously fantasize about kissing girls and would get all tingly while dreaming about these feminine girls/women. I had these dreams and fantasies for many, many years and to be honest, it scared me. I was a girl and shouldn't I be liking boys? Why do I have crushes on girls??

OK, so here's the cringing part. I even tried dating guys as I got older, but the relationship(s) would never last. Guys would hit on me all the time. I had long hair, and wore some make up and was foxy! LOL Some guys even wanted to me marry me <gulp> These guys were really great people and I couldn't go on and be something I wasn't, so I would end the relationship(s) and break hearts. It killed me to do that to these great guys at the time, but, bottom line, I never felt the same way about them and was never sexually attracted to them, ever, so it was best to end things, rather than go through the motions. I was so very conflicted. My exterior was girly, but internally I always felt masculine and saw myself as masculine. I looked one way, but felt another. What the hell is going on with me!?

I was raised in a strict, italian catholic household. I couldn't fathom the thought of <what I thought was shame> to my family by being gay. I decided that I would just go through life with my own deepest, darkest secret and go to the grave with it and came to terms that I'm going to be alone until the day I die. I actually was ok with that at the time.

How could I shame my parents, they'll disown me. That scared me. I was too busy thinking about everyone else rather than myself. I tried telling my mother and was basically told I would have to be the one to answer to God for this. My dad was very cool with it, we hugged, cried and he told me all he wanted before his eyes are to close is for me to be happy.

Then one day, it happened. I had what I thought was my first female love. I did the long distance thing for 4 years with a straight women who thought she was gay. She said no one had ever made her feel the way I did and I really thought I was in love. Being with another female felt right, it was normal to me. I never had to second guess anything and it was amazing and exactly what I had envisioned all these years. It started to become complicated for her and a lot of broken promises started being made to me. One day I finally said that I couldn't do this with her. Things started to happen and I found myself straying because in my heart, I knew it wasn't meant to be. We both ended it. It was very difficult for me and I went through a bit of a depression as it was my first love. But I was getting tired of broken promises. I mean, c'mon 4 fucking years already. Shit or get off the pot. So, I got off the pot as hard as it was.

A few weeks went by I finally snapped out of it and did a google search and found the other b-f website. It was great. I learned a lot about myself and felt like I fit in. It was normal to have conflictions within yourself and there were others out there just like me. OMFG sound the trumpets <rubbing eyes> Is this real??? What the hell, there are folks out there like me! How fuckin' happy am I!

However, I was ridiculed for having long hair at the time and some folks made fun of me questioning the butch thing. Everyone was after me to put a picture up in the gallery but I didn't want to do that right away, just because, no special reason. I wanted folks to get to know me by chatting and believe it or not, I was shy. YES, me shy, imagine that? Then, I finally put the picture up after a couple of months. All they saw was the long hair and that was it, that's when the ridiculing started. It also didn't matter to other folks either, because it's all about an energy. But still, it wasn't cool to be condemned like that. I never labeled myself. I sure the fuck wasn't fem, but more tomboy like. They had given me the butch label.

I would look at the gallery pictures and see different variations of butches. Does it matter? Why single me out? Again, I started to feel like where do I belong if I don't measure up to the butch "expectation" etc. as they were saying. Some of those folks made it matter and I was a bit uncomfortable. The reason why I got the "butch label" was because of my energy.

On a happier note, after being on that site for 3 years (at the time) I met a lot of awesome people and then I met my wonderful, beautiful fem. I had no intention of meeting anyone <especially in a chat room of all places> plus I wasn't looking for love, hell no, especially after the other relationship. I wanted to have fun! So, there I was in chat, started off as the usual flirting, then the phone calls, then the visits, and after a year, she relocated to be near me. We both had our own apartments and never moved in with each other until a year later.

We've been together for 7-1/2 years now and i've been blessed a million folds over :cheer: As time goes on, you realize it's about you and not everyone else. So fuck em and what they think. I am who I am. The best way I identify is as a pretty boi as I've been told and how others see me. And, my fem sure the hell didn't mind the long hair at the time ;)

P.S. I decided to cut my hair because I wanted a different look. NOT because of pressure, but because I always wanted spikey, crazy hair to match my personality and dammit I've been wearing it well ever since! :raspberry:

So moral of my story is never say never, because life is so damn strange, you just never know what or who is waiting around the corner for you.

Sorry for the long reply, but...this is my story :writer:

The End.

-Scorp-

[Passionaria]

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/69/m_1d56e14a7c7f45b7933100c81c1c4850.gif

Me at age 4, after a performance. I have always been femme.
:blueheels: Pashi

[Bit]

{{{{{{{{{{Scorp}}}}}}}}}}} You were one of my teachers, darlin, whether you knew it or not. You helped me to define what "Butch" means to me, and helped me to see the energy, regardless of the wrappings. I've always appreciated that! And seriously... who cares what your hair looks like? That's a personal decision for you to make, no one else. Sheesh.

Edited to add: I'm sorry people tried to force you to wear a label that didn't fit. Again, sheesh.

[Medusa]

Scorp! Thanks for your bravery in posting your story here! It is incredibly powerful to hear how folks found themselves.

That truth of the matter is that MANY if not MOST of us have dated, partnered with, fucked, married, or had children with men. They arent the enemy, just part of our evolution to ourselves.
I think it can be incredibly uncomfortable for Butches to talk about their involvement with men sometimes because of the stigma of the ridiculous "Gold Standard". To me, I have immense respect for people who are honest about their history because dating Men does not in any way negate the Butch that you WERE or ARE. :)

Hell, when I first came out, I was a Birkenstock-wearing baby butch replete with do-rag and Levi's. I was FINE as hell, but not feeling super comfortable in my skin. I also dated and partnered with other Femmes for a brief year. They were FINE as hell too but sharing the mirror? Not so much.

Keep up with the stories, y'all, Im loving it!

[NotAnAverageGuy]

I will come and tell mine later on, I am trying to find some old pics of me so I can at least share just one with ya'll!

[atomiczombie]

Ok, here it is:

I knew I was different from a very young age. I remember pouting every time I was put in a dress with frilly lace and tights. My mother would tell me she would have to change me at least 3 times a day, because at the end of the day, my dresses and tights would practically be shredded. I was always rough on my feet and my shoes would wear out. I loved playing with my brother's train set, matchbox cars, racetracks, climbed fences and trees, etc. Nothing lady like about me. Would forever be told to cross my legs when you sit, don't keep them spread apart, bla bla bla.

In grammar school, I was a tomboy and had a lot of friends. I had female best friends and loved them like sisters. To this day, I have my sister friends who i'm close with. I would try to like boys because growing up, I thought it was the right thing to do. From the age of 4 I would continuously fantasize about kissing girls and would get all tingly while dreaming about these feminine girls/women. I had these dreams and fantasies for many, many years and to be honest, it scared me. I was a girl and shouldn't I be liking boys? Why do I have crushes on girls??

OK, so here's the cringing part. I even tried dating guys as I got older, but the relationship(s) would never last. Guys would hit on me all the time. I had long hair, and wore some make up and was foxy! LOL Some guys even wanted to me marry me <gulp> These guys were really great people and I couldn't go on and be something I wasn't, so I would end the relationship(s) and break hearts. It killed me to do that to these great guys at the time, but, bottom line, I never felt the same way about them and was never sexually attracted to them, ever, so it was best to end things, rather than go through the motions. I was so very conflicted. My exterior was girly, but internally I always felt masculine and saw myself as masculine. I looked one way, but felt another. What the hell is going on with me!?

I was raised in a strict, italian catholic household. I couldn't fathom the thought of <what I thought was shame> to my family by being gay. I decided that I would just go through life with my own deepest, darkest secret and go to the grave with it and came to terms that I'm going to be alone until the day I die. I actually was ok with that at the time.

How could I shame my parents, they'll disown me. That scared me. I was too busy thinking about everyone else rather than myself. I tried telling my mother and was basically told I would have to be the one to answer to God for this. My dad was very cool with it, we hugged, cried and he told me all he wanted before his eyes are to close is for me to be happy.

Then one day, it happened. I had what I thought was my first female love. I did the long distance thing for 4 years with a straight women who thought she was gay. She said no one had ever made her feel the way I did and I really thought I was in love. Being with another female felt right, it was normal to me. I never had to second guess anything and it was amazing and exactly what I had envisioned all these years. It started to become complicated for her and a lot of broken promises started being made to me. One day I finally said that I couldn't do this with her. Things started to happen and I found myself straying because in my heart, I knew it wasn't meant to be. We both ended it. It was very difficult for me and I went through a bit of a depression as it was my first love. But I was getting tired of broken promises. I mean, c'mon 4 fucking years already. Shit or get off the pot. So, I got off the pot as hard as it was.

A few weeks went by I finally snapped out of it and did a google search and found the other b-f website. It was great. I learned a lot about myself and felt like I fit in. It was normal to have conflictions within yourself and there were others out there just like me. OMFG sound the trumpets <rubbing eyes> Is this real??? What the hell, there are folks out there like me! How fuckin' happy am I!

However, I was ridiculed for having long hair at the time and some folks made fun of me questioning the butch thing. Everyone was after me to put a picture up in the gallery but I didn't want to do that right away, just because, no special reason. I wanted folks to get to know me by chatting and believe it or not, I was shy. YES, me shy, imagine that? Then, I finally put the picture up after a couple of months. All they saw was the long hair and that was it, that's when the ridiculing started. It also didn't matter to other folks either, because it's all about an energy. But still, it wasn't cool to be condemned like that. I never labeled myself. I sure the fuck wasn't fem, but more tomboy like. They had given me the butch label.

I would look at the gallery pictures and see different variations of butches. Does it matter? Why single me out? Again, I started to feel like where do I belong if I don't measure up to the butch "expectation" etc. as they were saying. Some of those folks made it matter and I was a bit uncomfortable. The reason why I got the "butch label" was because of my energy.

On a happier note, after being on that site for 3 years (at the time) I met a lot of awesome people and then I met my wonderful, beautiful fem. I had no intention of meeting anyone <especially in a chat room of all places> plus I wasn't looking for love, hell no, especially after the other relationship. I wanted to have fun! So, there I was in chat, started off as the usual flirting, then the phone calls, then the visits, and after a year, she relocated to be near me. We both had our own apartments and never moved in with each other until a year later.

We've been together for 7-1/2 years now and i've been blessed a million folds over :cheer: As time goes on, you realize it's about you and not everyone else. So fuck em and what they think. I am who I am. The best way I identify is as a pretty boi as I've been told and how others see me. And, my fem sure the hell didn't mind the long hair at the time ;)

P.S. I decided to cut my hair because I wanted a different look. NOT because of pressure, but because I always wanted spikey, crazy hair to match my personality and dammit I've been wearing it well ever since! :raspberry:

So moral of my story is never say never, because life is so damn strange, you just never know what or who is waiting around the corner for you.

Sorry for the long reply, but...this is my story :writer:

The End.

-Scorp-

Thanks for sharing, bud. That totally bites that people tried to box you in and give you shit about your hair. You know who you are and that should be respected by everyone. No one has a right to define you but you.

I left out of my story that I too dated guys for a brief time, just to pretend that I was "normal". It did nothing for me, and on one of these dates I was date-raped. That kinda ended it for me with guys. I feel a little embarrassed about it, but it's a testament to how much I lost touch with the self I discovered at age 5-6. Thank the creator that we all have found our way, or at least are well on that path and have each other for support.

[Stoney]

So here's the place to tell a story....

I guess my earliest memory was when I was around 3-4 years old

when I really wanted to be Peter Pan (I think I was in love with

Wendy) .I remember getting caught with my skirt tucked in my

leotards standing on the back of grandpa's chair.

Through out elementary school I was kinda fat and that was my

main issue, I got made fun of and boys picked on me endlessly.

Back then I just wanted wished I was a boy so it didnt matter if I

wasn't as pretty, or what I wore, or whether I was fat or not. I didn't like dresses because I played rough and always sported skinned knees and I was always afraid my dress would come up, or be pulled up (and it was ).I used to roll up blue jeans under them.

About the time I was 10 or so I was taller and bigger than most of the boys and girls in my class , an incident happened on the
playground where a bunch of boys in my sisters class knocked her down and stole her skirt and went running.
That day for the first time, in defense of my sister , I kicked some ass, I whooped on about 5 of them sending three home early that day as well as my self because of a 2 day suspencion.

I think I became a bully after that, using my size to intimidate
boys my age and also to hide my feelings of feeling like I did not
fit in with the girls. They called me a tomboy. I got into sports. I
was the only girl on my little league team, I played basketball,
threw shot put, etc....

I developed early, got boobs around 11 started my period in third
grade. In 5th grade I met another tomboy new to our school and we became best friends.
I guess we had a thing for each other but I honestly had no Idea
what it was. I had never once heard of homosexuality, not even
once. I remember my grandma saying Liberache was a queer ,but I had no Idea what that meant and just agreed that he was indeed a strange fellow.
By the time junior high came , Liz and I were the Lezzies... the
queers.. STILL did not have a clue. By 13 my fighting put me in
the court system. I was sent to detentions which I broke out of and foster cares where I was abused and ran away from , I was sent to shrinks and ministers. and eventually to girls training school and then on to prison at 17 for 14 months.

i was in the system for ten long years from age 12 on.
When I was fourteen living on the streets, after running away I ended up sold to a pimp ..and well....some terrible terrible things happened but yeah it did not make me feel any better about men thats for sure. My female anatomy was terribly scarred by rape and sexual torture , I lost a baby at 6 months along because of it , and nearly my life.The doc's told me Id probably never have a baby....this news was devastating because more than anything I always wanted to be a mother.


I left my secrets feelings for other women just that. And after I got out I tried my best to feminize myself. hair make up, heels dresses the whole nine yards.

I was promiscuous , and I couldnt tell people no, especially men, I felt guilty for not liking men like I should, I felt like I couldnt be truly turned on by them but figured it was because of the abuse and not thought of the the possibility I was a lesbian... It never seemed like an option in my world. I would cringe while men went down on me,and felt numb physically and emotionally during sex....I just shut down..
Some where in there I had the internal notion that I was being
punished for my relationships with and feelings for womyn when I was inside. I was completely convinced I was fucked in the head.

In 1984 I married a wonderful kind gentle man we had three

children in the 3 years and 8 months we were married.I later had

my 4th child by another man.

As a young single woman with 4 kids, I began to remember

incidents of abuse and incest from my childhood I had tucked away, and forgotten. I got therapy, and realized I seriously had not been responsible for the things that happened to me and I forgave myself and my abusers.

Once that was out of the way I could see who I really was
underneath all my masks.

I came out at age 30, like I was shot out of a cannon. and have been a loud proud in your face feminist dyke ever since....


Of course there was much that happened in between but that may be best said in a different post.....


I'm not sure why I felt the need to share all this.... but what the

hell......maybe too much coffee??

Peace Stoney

[Scorp]

Hi Folks,

I just wanted to say thanks. It means a lot that everyone has been supportive and kind in their replies, responses, etc. and most of all, for being brave enough to post your own personal stories about your experience(s). Sometimes it isn't easy to do so freely.

Dusa, thanks for getting the ball rolling with starting this thread. As you and JustG have mentioned, for those of us who are writing about our experiences, this may open the door for others to feel they are not alone and comfortable enough to do the same.

So here we made a pathway for folks like us. :pile:

:LGBTQFlag:



:scorp:
-Scorp-

[Jess]

((( Scorp)))

Lovin the linguine one whether :onebutch: or :3butch: or :2butch: !!! Thanks for sharing your story. I think it helps illustrate some of the frustration a lot of butches felt/ feel regarding the butch "oneupsmanship" that often happens. I have always hated seeing folks use the terms "wannabe butch" or not a "real butch" But.. that's a different thread and it helps me gather some thoughts about those very things.

I will try to share my story too once I find my :glasses: LOL. It may take me a while to jar the old noggin, but I like the idea of us all sharing our own experiences. It gives me a much larger view of our tiny part of this planet!

Thanks to everyone who has shared.

[atomiczombie]

So here's the place to tell a story....

I guess my earliest memory was when I was around 3-4 years old

when I really wanted to be Peter Pan (I think I was in love with

Wendy) .I remember getting caught with my skirt tucked in my

leotards standing on the back of grandpa's chair.

Through out elementary school I was kinda fat and that was my

main issue, I got made fun of and boys picked on me endlessly.

Back then I just wanted wished I was a boy so it didnt matter if I

wasn't as pretty, or what I wore, or whether I was fat or not. I didn't like dresses because I played rough and always sported skinned knees and I was always afraid my dress would come up, or be pulled up (and it was ).I used to roll up blue jeans under them.

About the time I was 10 or so I was taller and bigger than most of the boys and girls in my class , an incident happened on the
playground where a bunch of boys in my sisters class knocked her down and stole her skirt and went running.
That day for the first time, in defense of my sister , I kicked some ass, I whooped on about 5 of them sending three home early that day as well as my self because of a 2 day suspencion.

I think I became a bully after that, using my size to intimidate
boys my age and also to hide my feelings of feeling like I did not
fit in with the girls. They called me a tomboy. I got into sports. I
was the only girl on my little league team, I played basketball,
threw shot put, etc....

I developed early, got boobs around 11 started my period in third
grade. In 5th grade I met another tomboy new to our school and we became best friends.
I guess we had a thing for each other but I honestly had no Idea
what it was. I had never once heard of homosexuality, not even
once. I remember my grandma saying Liberache was a queer ,but I had no Idea what that meant and just agreed that he was indeed a strange fellow.
By the time junior high came , Liz and I were the Lezzies... the
queers.. STILL did not have a clue. By 13 my fighting put me in
the court system. I was sent to detentions which I broke out of and foster cares where I was abused and ran away from , I was sent to shrinks and ministers. and eventually to girls training school and then on to prison at 17 for 14 months.

i was in the system for ten long years from age 12 on.
When I was fourteen living on the streets, after running away I ended up sold to a pimp ..and well....some terrible terrible things happened but yeah it did not make me feel any better about men thats for sure. My female anatomy was terribly scarred by rape and sexual torture , I lost a baby at 6 months along because of it , and nearly my life.The doc's told me Id probably never have a baby....this news was devastating because more than anything I always wanted to be a mother.


I left my secrets feelings for other women just that. And after I got out I tried my best to feminize myself. hair make up, heels dresses the whole nine yards.

I was promiscuous , and I couldnt tell people no, especially men, I felt guilty for not liking men like I should, I felt like I couldnt be truly turned on by them but figured it was because of the abuse and not thought of the the possibility I was a lesbian... It never seemed like an option in my world. I would cringe while men went down on me,and felt numb physically and emotionally during sex....I just shut down..
Some where in there I had the internal notion that I was being
punished for my relationships with and feelings for womyn when I was inside. I was completely convinced I was fucked in the head.

In 1984 I married a wonderful kind gentle man we had three

children in the 3 years and 8 months we were married.I later had

my 4th child by another man.

As a young single woman with 4 kids, I began to remember

incidents of abuse and incest from my childhood I had tucked away, and forgotten. I got therapy, and realized I seriously had not been responsible for the things that happened to me and I forgave myself and my abusers.

Once that was out of the way I could see who I really was
underneath all my masks.

I came out at age 30, like I was shot out of a cannon. and have been a loud proud in your face feminist dyke ever since....


Of course there was much that happened in between but that may be best said in a different post.....


I'm not sure why I felt the need to share all this.... but what the

hell......maybe too much coffee??

Peace Stoney

Wow, this is very powerful and it took a lot of guts to share your struggles with us. I am so sorry to hear that you were so terribly abused. :gimmehug: No one deserves that, buddy. But you are strong in yourself and that is awesome!

[Stoney]

Thank you, but really, we have all had our own share of bullshit in our lives, for whatever reason; Every one's lessons are their own , you know?..I was abused because that has made me who I am, because of it I have been able to protect my children from that life, and teach them to protect theirs. As well as help other young people in similar situations to mine, I rarely, if ever, look back on my past negatively. It is weird, but I am grateful for everything, every single experience , that has happened in my life. I wouldn't change one thing.

thanks again, Stoney

[Just_G]

I am with you Stoney! I really wouldn't change anything either. Everything I have been through on this journey has made me a stronger, kinder, more forgiving person. I was angry, confused, and bitter at god for putting me in this body, but now, after a couple years of therapy and some self discovery, let alone all the love from this community, I am happy with who I am.

[Jett]

My story starts much the same way as many other butches.

I had a strong aversion to dresses, somewhere in my mid singles digits the was a red velvet dress my mother bought for Xmas's. My strongest memory regarding that (perhaps my only) is the moment I'd have to enter the celebration/s... standing outside the doorway of my room with that dress on feeling extremely sheepish like I'd just come out in a Hefty Cinch Sack garbage bag. The only dress I've worn since that was a skirt I wore to my grandpa's funeral when I was seventeen, he always said he'd like to see me in a skirt... well better late than never.

But for the most part I would wear tee shirts and jeans... although I was apparently able to talk my mom into one pair of "little man pants", slit back pocket type semi dress pants but she eventually managed to kidnap them back. And I remember well the first time I was able to wear a suit. I was at my grandparents home and I was able to get my hands on my grandpa's suit and put it on, and despite my grandparents making "O" mouths (which emitted a similar sound) I remember feeling very "right". After that I'd dress as a hobo for Halloween just for the suit. When I was 11-12 I wanted to dapper up so I wanted to go as a pimp... didn't fly with my parents... besides my brother didn't want to be Ho' to my Pimp so it wouldn't have made much sense anyway.

I spent most of my youth riding mini bikes, my first a Honda 50cc I cherished, subsequently upgrading as I grew. I begged for cowboy gun holster sets, slingshots, creepy crawlers, Tonka Trucks for xmas... and I got them. I had crushes on little girls about the same time I realized I was going to be expected to marry a man.

As a teen I was rebellious as hell, a bad girl, spent time in a girls group home, eventually drug rehabs in attempts to get me to fly straight. But I definitely can't say my parents were strict and actually had divorced by the time I was 12 so I was just living with my mom anyway and that equated to living on my own even when I was there. At this point I had begun to de-evolve I guess you'd call it... began to try to assimilate into expected gender roles as far as hair and clothing... leather and lace... and dating males though I still had flings with females at the same time I was bringing the guys home to appease the rumblings of the deity, the Great Mom.

When late teens arrived it all started to change... I had come out at 17 and at 19 cut my hair into a neat crew cut and started dressing more masculine again, and I started to calm down a bit though I'm still known today for a wild streak. I started actively seeking out the lesbian community and found it, for the most part they were supportive though I had gotten the "butch is out" statements which stung but I ignored because I was just finally trying to align my outside with what I'd always felt inside and find some equilibrium of body and mind... shit I'd never really even seen or heard of any other butches at this point. I grew up in an upper class Midwest conservative as hell city where the big ha ha was to greet someone with "So where do you work, the Mayo Clinic or IBM". So most people conformed like Stepford wives, even the lesbians for the most part.

Which brings me to the first time I saw another butch, I was like maybe 22 and at a queer event, her name was KT. I knew immediately we were kin and sat and drank brew and talked all night. I did eventually meet a couple other butches in my mid and later 20's (aside from the one graying B-F couple who always sat alone safely away from flailing arms of the lesbians doing the Macarena). One butch I'd seen across the room a few times and finally introduced herself by coming up to me at a queer function and handing me a book "Stone Butch Blues" before saying "Hey, I'm Sandy". Again we we're kin, and through the years she was always looking out for me, not that I needed it but she always made it feel like she was... it was like what big brothers/sisters just do.

And life goes on this way, I had many relationships with women, but inside I was still on the outside looking in on a main community and culture to which I felt a foreigner. But when the world went online so did the queer scene and I quickly took advantage of a major queer chat site. They had Butch Femme rooms and I made some friends... some who I ran back into years ago on B-F forums and who are on this site today. I met my lady in those B-F chat rooms so though I say gak.com I'm so big woot to those days of chat.

Anyway in this I started to learn more about other butch masculine "identities" (further than what I had sitting around by myself in the "what/which am I's"). I was able to take what applied to myself and leave the stuff I just wasn't feeling. It gave me a feeling of community and culture I hadn't gotten from growing up in a world where I was an anomaly and the closest thing to me (wasn't even close) was a standard issue andro (gender neutral) lesbian brandishing fanny pack, cargo shorts, golf visor planning the next big potluck night (don't get me wrong I like potlucks... and lesbians *s*). But in this new queer online world I was appreciated for who I was not feeling depreciated.

My evolution at that point was already pretty complete but it allowed me to hone my language in a fashion that better able me to describe who I am... even if mainly or myself. I also had to slowly evolve within this culture, not as adaptation but rather a continuation of what I'd already been doing my entire life. Just like previous evolution there's been stumbling blocks along the way to understanding my butch identity. I found myself first trying on what seem to be the most fitting shoes, and avoiding diligently even looking at that odd pair out that eventually became mine... and after accepting comes growing comfortable enough to wear them publicly. Not everybody's going to like them, and they're definitely not the most popular ones in the store... but I never was one about fitting in.

I do still feel even in B-F I'm a bit on the outside looking as one who can't ID as either or, woman or man... and what's hard for people to accept or understand in terms of binary gender can be just as hard to accept understand in yourself and that it's easy to try to reject in a moment when internal phobias creep in and you want seek safer haven. But at the end of the day, you can only dance in shoes that fit you no matter the song or venue.

So after recent internal pot banging wake up call, I've gained internal acceptance of who I am, something I'd acknowledged before but I'd let myself smother for a bit... now I just need to learn to feel more "fabulous" in those shoes.

I am an Androgyne (overly gender-full not gender neutral, big difference) Stone Butch, I strongly embody both male and female.

For all intents and purposes the words as an ID to wear as some subcultural badge mean very little to me, I just am... they're not important except very in having a hold to grasp after years of rocking about on a boat where everyone else seems to have a reserved seat... to explain to those who know me enough to and genuinely want to know more about me and maybe just a way to say with words... hey... I am, like it or not I and won't hide it.

Well that and it doesn't hurt my feelings that coincidentally my being visible in it is like a fork in the eye to the binary system.

Metropolis

[daisyfm]

i played dolls with girls mostly. i always played with the girl doll and handed the "boy" dolls to my friends. my friends seemed to be carefully chosen, either athletes or tomboys. go figure. the games were always about the dolls being married to each other. go figure. looking back i am sure i freaked out some of my lovely friends in those early years.

[WolfyOne]

Funny I should see this thread after coming from chat. I was telling someone in there that I was once asked me years ago to write about what it was like coming out in the 70's. I just looked through some old poetry pads and found the story I did, but never finished. Perhaps tomorrow I'll share what I wrote because I may never get around to finishing it.

Thanks for the thread Medusa, I'll be back to read and hopefully add something.

[Write14u]

I've discovered that it's amazing sometimes how much internalized homophobia we grow up with. As a kid in the 70s and 80s, there were no really positive queer role models (with apologies to Liberace and Elton John, everyone I knew just thought you were fruits).
The portrayal of dykes certainly made me not wanna grow up and be one.

That said ...
I distinctly remember being 9 or 10 and wishing I were a boy. I had such the crush on my sister's best friend (who is STILL amazing looking). In my 10-year-old mind, being a boy was how I got her.
I was such a huge tomboy and baby dyke growing up that I'm still amazed how I veered so far away from who I was. I'll attribute that to my very strict,, religious upbringing. Homosexuality was (and still is, in their minds) wrong. I heard it every other Sunday from the pulpit.
So tomboy that I was, I conformed to society's notions of a girl. Boy, was that horribly wrong in some ways (and I have the pictures to prove it. LMAO).

Fast forward to age 27. I was having major doubts about my sexuality. And then my best friend kissed me. Doubts over. *grin* My god, I felt more in that one kiss than I had ever felt with a guy at any time. I felt it to my toes. She used to make my freaking hands sweat. (and laugh at my ass because I was always wiping my hands on my jeans around her).

I always knew I was butch. But back to that internalized homophobia. There was a stereotype that went with stone butch back then and I didn't want to look that way or be recognized that way. My how times have changed. *grin* These days, I look like what always scared me. But I've come into who I really am and I love every second of it.

My family still isn't so accepting and god knows they hate my faux-hawked, short hair, men's clothes and attitude (and also that I'm a Democrat. LOL). But it doesn't bother me. I'm who I am and I'm loving just taking the freedom to be who I am -- inside and out. I've spent the past 13 years figuring it out and becoming comfortable in my skin. I'm no longer 10 thinking being a boy is the only way to get the girl, you know? Unlike some of my queer friends, I never felt like I was in the wrong body. I just knew I wanted the girl. *smile*

I'm a week shy of my 40th birthday and it's been a long road to get to where I am now. Long, but not as troubled a path as many tread and for that, I'm grateful. I've seen the struggles of others and I'm appreciative of what they've gone through and grateful for my road. With this comfort in myself comes great excitement for what's down the road from here, you know?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Soon]

I've discovered that it's amazing sometimes how much internalized homophobia we grow up with. As a kid in the 70s and 80s, there were no really positive queer role models (with apologies to Liberace and Elton John, everyone I knew just thought you were fruits).
The portrayal of dykes certainly made me not wanna grow up and be one.

That said ...
I distinctly remember being 9 or 10 and wishing I were a boy. I had such the crush on my sister's best friend (who is STILL amazing looking). In my 10-year-old mind, being a boy was how I got her.
I was such a huge tomboy and baby dyke growing up that I'm still amazed how I veered so far away from who I was. I'll attribute that to my very strict,, religious upbringing. Homosexuality was (and still is, in their minds) wrong. I heard it every other Sunday from the pulpit.
So tomboy that I was, I conformed to society's notions of a girl. Boy, was that horribly wrong in some ways (and I have the pictures to prove it. LMAO).

Fast forward to age 27. I was having major doubts about my sexuality. And then my best friend kissed me. Doubts over. *grin* My god, I felt more in that one kiss than I had ever felt with a guy at any time. I felt it to my toes. She used to make my freaking hands sweat. (and laugh at my ass because I was always wiping my hands on my jeans around her).

I always knew I was butch. But back to that internalized homophobia. There was a stereotype that went with stone butch back then and I didn't want to look that way or be recognized that way. My how times have changed. *grin* These days, I look like what always scared me. But I've come into who I really am and I love every second of it.

My family still isn't so accepting and god knows they hate my faux-hawked, short hair, men's clothes and attitude (and also that I'm a Democrat. LOL). But it doesn't bother me. I'm who I am and I'm loving just taking the freedom to be who I am -- inside and out. I've spent the past 13 years figuring it out and becoming comfortable in my skin. I'm no longer 10 thinking being a boy is the only way to get the girl, you know? Unlike some of my queer friends, I never felt like I was in the wrong body. I just knew I wanted the girl. *smile*

I'm a week shy of my 40th birthday and it's been a long road to get to where I am now. Long, but not as troubled a path as many tread and for that, I'm grateful. I've seen the struggles of others and I'm appreciative of what they've gone through and grateful for my road. With this comfort in myself comes great excitement for what's down the road from here, you know?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I loved reading your story! Good for you for getting to a place where you feel comfortable--thank you for sharing! :)

So, are you out to your parents/family, and how did they respond being from such a religious/conservative family?

You said they "weren't so accepting", but I couldn't figure out if it was about the hair/dress or you being queer--and actually KNOWING that you are!

[Write14u]

I loved reading your story! Good for you for getting to a place where you feel comfortable--thank you for sharing! :)

So, are you out to your parents/family, and how did they respond being from such a religious/conservative family?

You said they "weren't so accepting", but I couldn't figure out if it was about the hair/dress or you being queer--and actually KNOWING that you are!


Thank you. *smile*

Well, on the "out to my family thing" ... we have a military relationship, my family and I. They don't ask and I don't tell. They know I'm queer. They don't like it. But I keep my life separate from them. (Mainly because I'm single, so there's nobody right there in my life for them to see.)
I think with them, they don't WANT to ask. When I was first coming out, I denied being queer. I think they know now that I wouldn't do that. And I wouldn't.

They're still not accepting of queerness in general, but the love me, you know? The reason they don't like the hair and how I dress is because it clearly identifies me as queer for all their friends to see. That's what they hate about that. I guess it was better when I was more closeted. (I just moved closer to them two years ago after living away for a long time).

[Soon]

Thank you. *smile*

Well, on the "out to my family thing" ... we have a military relationship, my family and I. They don't ask and I don't tell. They know I'm queer. They don't like it. But I keep my life separate from them. (Mainly because I'm single, so there's nobody right there in my life for them to see.)
I think with them, they don't WANT to ask. When I was first coming out, I denied being queer. I think they know now that I wouldn't do that. And I wouldn't.

They're still not accepting of queerness in general, but the love me, you know? The reason they don't like the hair and how I dress is because it clearly identifies me as queer for all their friends to see. That's what they hate about that. I guess it was better when I was more closeted. (I just moved closer to them two years ago after living away for a long time).

Thanks for your response. So, you haven't actually confirmed the fact that you are gay/queer to your family?

I ask b/c with my mother--I had to SPELL IT OUT FOR HER (she's hardcore RC). She didn't get it when I said Mich sleeps with me; she thought I meant sleepovers. I said, no, we are lovers. So, I had to COME OUT that way. (ten years ago, approx)

So, you haven't actually said the words? It was so hard for me; I thought she knew based on my closeness with Mich, but she SWEARS she thought it was all gf/gf (platonic friendship) stuff!

How do they know if you don't tell? B/c, lord knows, I had to TELL in order for her to GET IT!

I actually had to say, no, I am with her--she is my girlfriend--we sleep together--we are TOGETHER.

Well, then, that is another story!

P.S. On another note, is being queer and out only contingent on if you are with someone (for me it was--b/c I had only been in straight relationships with cisguys) ?

[Soft*Silver]

I will do more in this thread tomorrow perhaps, but I just wanted to interject that not all femmes played with babydolls as little girls. Or at least, not in the traditional way....

case in point...

I buried my baby dolls. In my mother's garden.

I am sure Freud would have a field day with that tid bit....

[Write14u]

Thanks for your response. So, you haven't actually confirmed the fact that you are gay/queer to your family?

I ask b/c with my mother--I had to SPELL IT OUT FOR HER (she's hardcore RC). She didn't get it when I said Mich sleeps with me; she thought I meant sleepovers. I said, no, we are lovers. So, I had to COME OUT that way. (ten years ago, approx)

So, you haven't actually said the words? It was so hard for me; I thought she knew based on my closeness with Mich, but she SWEARS she thought it was all gf/gf (platonic friendship) stuff!

How do they know if you don't tell? B/c, lord knows, I had to TELL in order for her to GET IT!)

I actually had to say, no, I am with her--she is my girlfriend--we sleep together--we are TOGETHER.

Well, then, that is another story!

P.S. On another note, is being queer and out only contingent on if you are with someone (for me it was--b/c I had only been in straight relationships with cisguys) ?

Well, my mom said to me one time that I'd have more money if I didn't spend it on women. I'm PRETTY sure how she meant it. Yes, without asking, she knows, although I don't think that was the case when I first came out. My partner for six years was very beloved in my family, and I think they actually took it at face value that we were just friends and roommates. However, my mom did NOT like my second girlfriend. Her exact words to me were: "I don't like her. I don't like how she looks at you." (My then-gf looked at me like I was lunch. lol) Yeah, my mom gets it without me saying a word.

My dad? Not so sure. Not anything he'd ever say anyway. He's not that way.
My oldest sister? There's no way in hell she can read my FB every day, watch the different female friends of mine flirt with me, my responses, and not know. But she then ostriches it.
My youngest sister? She totally ostriches it.
They confronted me with it once...just a month or so after I came out. It totally freaked me out and I said no. I don't think they're ever going to ask me again. They know the truth.

No, I'm queer and out. And I think I look very queer. LOL In fact, I think I queer femmes when I'm with them. I look so damn dykey that people assume they are, as well. (Probably goes for my straight girlfriends, as well).
I just meant that being single, I'm not bringing anyone home for dinner, etc. So it makes it easy for them. They get to pretend for a while, you know?

[Soon]

Well, my mom said to me one time that I'd have more money if I didn't spend it on women. I'm PRETTY sure how she meant it. Yes, without asking, she knows, although I don't think that was the case when I first came out. My partner for six years was very beloved in my family, and I think they actually took it at face value that we were just friends and roommates. However, my mom did NOT like my second girlfriend. Her exact words to me were: "I don't like her. I don't like how she looks at you." (My then-gf looked at me like I was lunch. lol) Yeah, my mom gets it without me saying a word.

My dad? Not so sure. Not anything he'd ever say anyway. He's not that way.
My oldest sister? There's no way in hell she can read my FB every day, watch the different female friends of mine flirt with me, my responses, and not know. But she then ostriches it.
My youngest sister? She totally ostriches it.
They confronted me with it once...just a month or so after I came out. It totally freaked me out and I said no. I don't think they're ever going to ask me again. They know the truth.

No, I'm queer and out. And I think I look very queer. LOL In fact, I think I queer femmes when I'm with them. I look so damn dykey that people assume they are, as well. (Probably goes for my straight girlfriends, as well).
I just meant that being single, I'm not bringing anyone home for dinner, etc. So it makes it easy for them. They get to pretend for a while, you know?


In regards to your last question, no, I don't know about having them pretend (at least for too long) b/c I didn't have that experience of NOT telling b/c I was single--I have had relationships...and, sooner rather than later, I HAD to come out...(the first time, I thought she--my mother--knew).

The parts I underlined I am confused about. You say you came out...but I don't see it. You say "they know the truth" but I don't see where you actually told your family you were gay.

Is being OUT just letting our familes seeing us dress and act in a certain way and bringing our partners over to dinner (for years) w/o actually SAYING we are a couple? Personally, I don't think so. I could have brought my first two gfs over for years and years and my parents would have thought we were just *close* girlfriends.

I think to BE OUT to your family (at the least?) you have to say something like she is my gf or partner--we are a couple?

I don't think having others making assumptions about our appearance is verification of sexual or gender identity--there are many many people who would turn the notion of what a heterosexual or cisgendered person looks like on its head.

Looking queer doesn't mean being OUT is what I guess I am saying...esp. b/c I don't have ummm...any stereotypical *markers* (including past history) where my family may have known I was queer, I HAD to say the words.

[Write14u]

In regards to your last question, no, I don't know about having them pretend (at least for too long) b/c I didn't have that experience of NOT telling b/c I was single--I have had relationships...and, sooner rather than later, I HAD to come out...(the first time, I thought she--my mother--knew).

The parts I underlined I am confused about. You say you came out...but I don't see it. You say "they know the truth" but I don't see where you actually told your family you were gay.

Is being OUT just letting our familes seeing us dress and act in a certain way and bringing our partners over to dinner (for years) w/o actually SAYING we are a couple? Personally, I don't think so. I could have brought my first two gfs over for years and years and my parents would have thought we were just *close* girlfriends.

I think to BE OUT to your family (at the least?) you have to say something like she is my gf or partner--we are a couple?

I don't think having others making assumptions about our appearance is verification of sexual or gender identity--there are many many people who would turn the notion of what a heterosexual person looks like on its head.

Looking queer doesn't mean being OUT is what I guess I am saying...esp. b/c I don't have ummm...any stereotypical *markers* (including past history) where my family may have known I was queer, I HAD to say the words.

Sorry, didn't mean to be confusing.
I have never actually said to my family, "Hey, I'm queer, get over it."
My family, however, is aware of it.
No, I don't think being out is about what I wear, etc. I used to keep my orientation quiet...with my first partner and all. Since then, I haven't been in a long-term relationship that required bringing it up to my family.
That's kind of what I mean about them being in pretend mode right now. And what I meant about them not wanting to ask me now. If I have a partner in my life at any time, I will proudly call them my partner and take them around my family.

[Gemme]

My family's the same way as Write's is. Very much DADT and very reserved. I know my dad knows. He picked up the phone one night when I was talking with my gf at the time. Oh, he knows. But he will NOT speak of it. It's not his way. Part of it is him being a Southern Baptist and part of it is just him. He's very limited in how he shows his emotions, if he ever does.

[Write14u]

My family's the same way as Write's is. Very much DADT and very reserved. I know my dad knows. He picked up the phone one night when I was talking with my gf at the time. Oh, he knows. But he will NOT speak of it. It's not his way. Part of it is him being a Southern Baptist and part of it is just him. He's very limited in how he shows his emotions, if he ever does.


Yes, what she said. *grin*

[Scorp]

Bumpin' this thread, especially with how the "Planet" is growing with peeps!