Has reading a post ever facilitated a change of mind surrounding something of significance?

[Cin]

I have been reading and posting on different forums for years. There is never a shortage of individuals willing to explain their opinion or position on most any given topic. Lots of people are quite adamant and very passionate about their point of view. And many posters are quite articulate, well informed and rather convincing. So I’m just wondering if anyone has every changed their mind because of something they read on a forum. Has some well articulated argument ever convinced you that you should re-evaluate a previously firmly held belief? I’m not suggesting we are wasting our breath either way. It’s great to share ideas with like-minded people. It’s also interesting to see opposing viewpoints and have the ins and outs of these positions explained thoroughly. My question is simply has anyone ever actually been moved to change their mind about a heartfelt issue, not something rather insignificant like whether peeps are better micro waved or just like that out of the box, but something important to them, a central belief of some kind, because of a post or even several posts they read articulating an opposing point of view?

[1QuirkyKiwi]

Yes, in a personal situation where the poster was going through something similar and talked about their feelings, hopes, fears and the choices they were making to sort the situaion out.

It allowed me to take a step back and reflect on my own feelings, which helped me to see things more clearly.

I'm open to new perspectives from people, as they may have more experience in a particular situation that may benefit me in some way.

[Dominique]

Oh heck yeah. For years, this is what keeps me coming to these forums. I prefer discourse to like minded thinking. I'll read, and re-read and think about what I read. I may do a little research to satisfy my curiosity. Many times I have changed my postion on a subject because of the suggestive
writing of a very talented poster. Only for another, just as passionate person to come along and cause me to lean towards the edge of my box. Before I know it, I'm looking for more information to support that subject matter. Many times, I go back and forth. (censorship thread is a very good example) that topic went all over the planet, and so did my brain. People brought perspectives to the computer screen, that I never thought of, until brought to the forefront. Then I sure did think about it. I don't think a perspective was missed.

So to answer your question. Yes, absolutely. I can't imagine a world where we all think the same.

[Daywalker]

Absolutely.


If I were to compare my mind stretch from 8 year ago to now,
it would show a significant amount of growth due
to these Forums and our community.

You know when you wake up and yer body gets a hella
good stretch in and it feels hella good?

Yep, same kinda thing happens when
I get to stretch mah mind.

:goodscore:

:daywalker:

[nowandthen]

I have had my views expanded by reading others points, it either has moved me a bit from mine veiw,made me go read more about others veiws, and articulate my points better, not for agreement but for difference. :praying:

[Martina]

Dylan really made me think about trans issues in ways that i had not. i do not think i would get his seal of approval, but i have changed.

[Cin]

I was writing a post this morning in the lesbian butches thread and it got me thinking about how much I’ve changed. This thread was a direct result of that realization. I got to thinking about all the people whose posts on this forum and the other who have been a part of my progression. People I don’t know and people who don’t know me and have no idea the effect their words have had in my life. I can site specific threads on .com that contributed to my changing certain ways I view things.

It’s not that I read one post and then I completely change my outlook about something. It’s more that while reading the words of others there are seeds planted, ideas that germinate and as a direct result of these experiences I slowly change and grow.

I have another question. Is there a particular style of presentation that works best for you? Is there a style that just turns you off and no matter what the person says you won’t hear them?

[Dominique]

I'll second that. I have changed. I was just telling AtLast that. And mind you, I have never spoken a single word to her. We were talking about the ever changing world of Butches. I was saying, I am always reading and reading. Getting rid of what I thought I knew, to make room for the new.
As for writing styles or presentation. I'm going to say no. Nothing in particular turns me off. Sometimes I have to be hit over the head to get the subject matter, other times I'm able to *sow the seed* as you said,
from a few buzz words. The story usually tells it's self if you hang in there long enough. Typed words are slippery and easy to misconstrue. I may read it one way today, come back tomorrow, and read it totally different. Same words.

[betenoire]

My question is simply has anyone ever actually been moved to change their mind about a heartfelt issue, not something rather insignificant like whether peeps are better micro waved or just like that out of the box, but something important to them, a central belief of some kind, because of a post or even several posts they read articulating an opposing point of view?

I have no idea, honestly. I know that my opinions on a lot of things have changed over the years, but I can't nail down a thread or a person or a conversation that was the kicker.

I do know that I've thread-stalked myself some over at the other site and I sometimes find myself thinking "did I really believe that? holy cats!"


I have another question. Is there a particular style of presentation that works best for you? Is there a style that just turns you off and no matter what the person says you won’t hear them?

Not so much a style of communication, but a style of person. People who tend to think that a difference of opinion on a subject is something PERSONAL are the types of people who I eventually just end up not reading. Attack my ideas, do not attack my personality.

There are some people here who I really look forward to the opportunity to read, even when I disagree with what they're saying. Because there's just a level of honesty there that comes off as really untainted. They don't even have similar posting styles (at all) so it's really not the method of delivery that does it for me.

I also really respect anybody who can disagree with you on one subject and then move on, not letting the difference of opinion leak into every other interaction that they have for all eternity.

[Apocalipstic]

It's not been one post, it has been all of them...and yes, my views have changed on a number of subjects. :rrose:

[Blade]

I can't think of any one post that has changed me or changed my mind about something. Many posts though have opened my mind to viewing something in a different light. The biggest thing I have noticed different about myself since joining forums is awareness. Terms and acronyms I'd never heard of or never heard used in real life. How they might mean something entirely different online vs RT. Awareness of how differently folks interpret what we say online vs RT. Just the many different facets of awareness.:cigar2:

[MsTinkerbelly]

I have not changed my views on core belief items like religion (mine only), or how I perceive good and bad, right and wrong. But....like several people have mentioned I look at things a different way, consider another's view of the world more seriously, am not so quick to judgement on an issue. There are those that cause me to pause and think...and I thank them for that opportunity to grow.

[SoNotHer]

Betenoire: "I have no idea, honestly. I know that my opinions on a lot of things have changed over the years, but I can't nail down a thread or a person or a conversation that was the kicker. I do know that I've thread-stalked myself some over at the other site and I sometimes find myself thinking "did I really believe that? holy cats!"

This cracked me up, and isn't it something to read the palimpsest of your thoughts whether it's journal writing, poetry, fiction or posts? It's quite an experience to see how you change.

One specific example of change is when Apocalipitc and you, Miss Tick, got me rethinkng the term "American" as the exclusive province of US citizens, and other posts and posters have helped me form questions and shape my own experiences and feelings in ways that help me understand myself and my communities.

[AtLast]

Many from this community have enriched my thinking about a multitude of issues and subjects. I appreciate doors to other's experinces and thoughts being opened and this really matters to me. Like, Bet, I don't understand when disagreement gets personal and gets attached to future posts, but it happens.

I think I have had change in some attitudes, at least just better understanding of them via the site/community overall. Something that I have always liked as a member is that this is a place in which I can hear from people that just come from very different backgrounds than myself- if not for the site, I wouldn't have this opportunity and information to consider about things that matter- especially within the context of the entire range of the
B-F narrative.

Also, for me, being able to hear from differing age groups is important and I think, helps keep me more informed.

Have to add that the areas that have been most enlightening and given me the most to think about are the race related topics. Gender is a close second.

I know that my personal comfort level as a butch is directly related to participation here on the Planet as well as the old site. But, I know I came to the B-F dynamic (or at least my consciousness of it personally) much later in life than many.

LOL, so, it looks like my views and ideas have been altered! Thank you all!

[*Anya*]

Absolutely it has. I have posted several times that I have been informed, educated and had my mind opened to gender issues in a way I never had prior to coming to the Planet.

What I have a difficult time with is, on occasion, it appears to me that someone may become angry with a particular post and it apears as though there are verbal attacks or flaming. I see no need for that. We all come from different places, with varied levels of understanding and I think we can disagree in a respectful manner without making it personal.

As always, this is my own personal opinion and perspective. I do feel it is important to come from that position, rather than generalize and present opinion as fact.

[Apocalipstic]

Racial issues, Gender issues, how I think about size and body image, about the word Femme, about abuse, PTSD, mental illness, types of relationships, how incredibly grateful I am.....

I learn every time I interact with y'all.

[atomiczombie]

I think it has changed me a lot to be part of this community and when I was on the dash site. I would say that I have been educated on a lot of subjects that I wasn't really exposed to or understood very well when I was younger. The gender threads, racism threads, political threads, world issues threads, relationship/sex/BDSM threads, and the like have greatly expanded my knowledge base and helped me change some of my views, and develop new ones as well.

As I have gotten to know many of you in the threads that I frequent, I have grown fond of you folks even when I don't always agree with you, and even when I am sometimes frustrated and annoyed with you lol. But I see that people are complicated and that everyone has a story and life experiences that shape who they are and how they communicate and see the world. I find that enriching. :)

[SelfMadeMan]

Absolutely! Well, reading a thread actually. I'm not proud to admit this, but of all people, I used to have a pretty narrow view of what is/isn't trans and what should be required to be able to transition. I was part of a conversation that ended up moderated, and the whole thing made me stop and do some soul searching, and I feel so bad for what I said that may have hurt people. I do firmly believe that we ALL have the right (or should have the right) to do and BE who we want to without judgement from our peers, and without the government telling us who we are allowed to be or how we are allowed to identify - including imposing beurocratic hoops we have to jump through to be true to ourselves.

[girl_dee]

I have not changed my views on core belief items like religion (mine only), or how I perceive good and bad, right and wrong. But....like several people have mentioned I look at things a different way, consider another's view of the world more seriously, am not so quick to judgement on an issue. There are those that cause me to pause and think...and I thank them for that opportunity to grow.

I feel the same way, Threads and the content gives us another POV to consider.

[ruffryder]

I appreciate the passionate people in our community and I do appreciate everyone's beliefs. Of course I have been persuaded to change my mind on a topic or belief. I am one however not to go with the crowd or jump on the bandwagon. I think a lot of our beliefs come from what we were taught growing up and what we learn. I can definitely appreciate people who challenge that way of thinking and look outside the box they may have been put into as a child. I like to do research and gain insight on subjects I am interested in. I like facts. I also like opinions if they got some punch behind them and are well thought out and make sense. In that case I enjoy an argument all day. What I don't appreciate is people belittling others, acting like their way is the only way. People who turn others off just because they are stuck in their ways. Also, people who tell someone to shut up or go away since their opinions differ. That is disrespectful and obviously immature. I will interact with those that are respectful and want to know my opinion on a subject. I also don't like that just because someone may have a different opinion about something automatically they are hated or labeled and basically shouldn't have an opinion about anything since they don't agree with someone. I don't like personal attacks. I'd rather hear about the subject and why you think someone is wrong and you are right not only why they are wrong about their beliefs.

With all that being said, I have enjoyed learning here and I do keep an open mind coming here. I think that helps getting to know others and their beliefs. Thanks for the thread and thoughts.

[macele]

there are times when we should choose our words carefully, ...
we touch lives. we influence people. and most times never will know who.
in good ways and not so good ways.
do we even realize just how many people are involved in what we do and say.

i'm new to this group. but for several years i was a member of another group, and i've met several that were (still are) a muse for my mind and heart. just via their words.

as far as significance, i'm different when it comes to open-mindness, expression, humor. i've learned that being judged by those against homosexuality has nothing to do with me. it's about their beliefs, not mine.
i've learned that they are standing up for what they believe, and i am standing up for what i feel in my heart. it's all ok.

one thing i thought about when reading the intro to this thread
is what someone (other group) wrote about when entering a messy room. regardless of whether it's your mess, ...
leave the room cleaner than when you entered. as simple as this may seem, it has a bigger picture. very much so applies to being a member of a group.

in closing lol, ...they say a southern belle can tell you to go to hell in such a way, ...
you'll want to go.

[ruby_woo]

Holy crap yes. I'm still really new to posting here, but was active on the old site back in the day. I started posting there when I was 19 (!), and learned so much from the folks there- my mind was opened to new ideas about gender, race, economics, sex, body stuff, and just life in general.

I tend to find myself drawn to those who speak from experience and from the heart, rather than from something they read in a textbook. In general though I'm willing to listen to anyone who presents their opinion in a thoughtful manner, and doesn't resort to attacks.

And funny always draws me in as well. :)

[Apocalipstic]

Thank you for the thread Mystic, it really has made me thing about how much I do learn based on what I read from all y'all!

Thank you!

[Cin]

Thank you for the thread Mystic, it really has made me thing about how much I do learn based on what I read from all y'all!

Thank you!

Well thank you for saying that. And thanks for going out of your way to not make me cringe by saying Miss Tick. :rofl:

That really made me smile.

[EnderD_503]

It's really hard to say to what degree I've been swayed by specific posts or posters here. Pretty much everything I hear and read, including this forum and the dash site before it, has some kind of influence on me and my worldview whether it ends up changing my worldview or not. For me, changing my views on things isn't something that occurs immediately, but over a course of months. I need to read as much as possible on a subject before I really start to adopt any particular idea or adapt it according to my own thoughts on it. Then once I've read more, I can also go back and reread a post.

The thing for me when I post here or on other forums, isn't that I'm actually trying to change other people's opinions in most cases. In most cases, it's highly unlikely that one single individual is every going to change another's opinion. In many respects, posting here in topics that I feel particularly strongly about is a way for me to better explore my own ideas, experiment with structuring my arguments, and to test any particular weaknesses my arguments might have. When it comes to ideas, for me, it's really important to consider all angles. For me, something isn't worth adopting as a value/idea if it is easily dismantled. It also helps me think of new ways to express those arguments better.

Overall, my views on a number of issues has changed a lot over the course of my life. If I look at who I was when I was politically and ideologically at 16 versus where I'm at now at 26 I might as well be an entirely different person in many respects. I expect to be just as different at 36, if not moreso :p

But even in the short time that I've been on this forum specifically, there are some things that have changed quite a bit for me. When I look at how I viewed femmes a few years ago, or even when I first went to the dash site, I had a far more rigid view of gender and even sexuality. That part of me has done a complete 180 at this point, and I hold almost the complete opposite of what I did then when it comes to gender and sexuality. In many respects I've gone from really placing emphasis on my attraction to the masculinity vs. femininity perspective of the dynamic, to really coming to think of gender as irrelevant for the way I view myself within the dynamic. Through the various posts of femmes on this site, the dash site, irl and book/blog recommendations in general I've definitely come to understand femmes and even the bf dynamic itself much differently than I used to. Because of femmes sharing the different ways of being femme, I've definitely shed a lot of the underlying sexist assumptions I used to have.

I've also learned a lot on this forum about the age play community. With age play in particular, there were certain aspects of it that used to disturb me when I first encountered it in hetero porn in my teens. When I came to the dash site I still didn't really know what to make of it, but there have been some really great threads on this forum on the subject that have really changed my thinking on it. I really thank all those who had the patience to discuss the subject despite that it can be a sensitive subject. Even though I never really participated in those threads, I enjoyed reading them and learned a lot anyways.

Body size issues is another topic I've really enjoyed reading about on this forum, and it definitely has made me question a lot of things that I didn't think to question before. I know there was a thread recently that really introduced me to something I'd never really thought about before, which was gatekeeping that occurs even in communities that are supposed to be body/size-positive (who is big enough to be considered a part of the community and who is not, was a form of gatekeeping that that particular thread was trying to discuss as present and problematic, if I remember right).

And of course, just from discussing gender issues here with transfolks has really changed my own perspective on the utility (for me) of the word "trans" itself. Before I used to not want to use the word to describe myself, but have come to see it as a politically important word when it comes to the fight for trans equality. Reading some of the posters on this site did impact that shift, as well as speaking to more and more diverse trans folks irl. I guess that's how it's been for me. Really a combination of what I experience irl and what I read here and elsewhere online.

That said, no matter how passionate I am about some issue, I try to not to have any "core beliefs" that are such "core beliefs" that they are completely immutable. All the ideas and beliefs I have, I feel should be mutable, since anything else would imply that I have all the answers on something...which I evidently don't. On the other hand, of course there are some topics that hit closer to home than others, and sometimes it becomes a struggle not to let that show when posting. I know I feel this way about trans issues, simply because I feel that a lot of issues that come up reflect issues I face in life and have negative consequences on myself and other trans folks in my life. In that respect, my views on how "different opinions" really become a brutal reality has changed quite a bit. For me, it's made me more prudent when discussing potentially sensitive topics involving marginalized peoples, because what is simply an "opinion" for me is somebody else's daily experience.

I also feel this way when it comes to body sovereignty rights, whether it comes to trans folks, women's reproductive rights (rights to abortion and hysterectomies at any age f.ex.), euthanasia, disability rights and what I view as the government's responsibility in providing people with what they need when it comes to their own bodies no matter who they are and what they've done, really gets to me. I suppose those might be a part of what I view as a part of my "core beliefs/values." I'm not sure I could ever accept people trying to justify policing others' bodies.

[DapperButch]

Definitely.

[Cin]

As for writing styles or presentation. I'm going to say no. Nothing in particular turns me off. Sometimes I have to be hit over the head to get the subject matter, other times I'm able to *sow the seed* as you said,
from a few buzz words. The story usually tells it's self if you hang in there long enough. Typed words are slippery and easy to misconstrue. I may read it one way today, come back tomorrow, and read it totally different. Same words.

Here is a perfect example of a post facilitating a change of mind. I read this post a few days ago and what Yellow band said about how easy it is to misconstrue typed words struck me. And the part that really got to me was when she said how she can come back the next day and read the same words completely differently. I sat with that awhile.

I started to consider that perhaps with some some posts I may misconstrue the intent. It's almost impossible not to inject some of your own understanding, opinions, beliefs or even suspicions into emotionless words on a computer screen. Even just reading it requires your own inflections.

Then I realized that this sometimes happens with my own words. I'll write something and I know what I meant and how i meant it and yet I'll come back a day or so later, read the same words and be struck by how they sound much different from how I meant them.

So now because of Yellow band's post I have had the opportunity to reflect on how I may read things that aren't necessarily there in the post of another and also that i might want to focus more on the message rather than the presentation. Less chance of confusion that way.

Of course as Betenoire mentioned it is difficult to deal with people who feel a difference of opinion is a personal attack. As well as those who attack the person and not the ideas.

[Talon]

Though, I wouldn't go as far as to say it's life altering...but I will say that there is a member here, that definitely gives me pause with her posts.

I could have my opinion on a topic...yes, mind made up..and then she'll respond.. and it's just this unveiling.

[Gráinne]

Yes, it just happened today. Many a time someone will put what I am thinking much better than I did or could, if I responded to the same post.

[Ginger]

Engaging in civil disagreements (with varying levels of success), on this site has made me braver, in my work, and in dealing with difficult personalities. I'm having an interesting awakening of perspective.

[Martina]

Yes, a number of people have awakened me to some perspective or another. I have to say that the person who wrought the most change in my thinking over time was Dylan. I still often disagreed with him. But he made me think -- and caused me to change my mind on some issues.

He's a FB friend, but he mostly just posts pictures of beautiful countryside. So I don't really benefit from his wisdom. Probably better for him. He used to get so upset.

[princessbelle]

Yes.

Many times. Too many to count really.

Many have also given me more of a gift than just a change in ideas. They have given me the gift of seeing. Seeing things from other's prospective, other's lives, other's visions. They open my mind, and more importantly, they open my heart.

Sometimes, my opinion may not change completely, but it does help me look and focus on something outside of my own belief windows.

I am learning, the older i get, that there are more than two sides to every story or belief system, there are many, many sides.

And.

Taking time to breath all of that in, even when i disagree, can be a beautiful thing.

[Vivacious1]

I wouldn't say that reading the forums have changed any one thing for me, but what I can say is that I have truly been inspired and had the desire to be better after reading some post. As I read through different things, there are certain people that may have an outlook that I never thought of before. There are also people that I admire for their strength and their determination. While those people may never know who they are, it's awesome to meet folks that suprise me. (In a good way)

[julieisafemme]

Yes many many times I have I learned something new and changed my opinion on things. That is the main reason I come here and read and post. I was in a FB argument the other day and I realized that positing here has taught me how to respectfully engage in a conversation on challenging topics. Many of the other people posting on that thread did not have that skill! I got so upset and it made me appreciate this space.

[DapperButch]

Yes, a number of people have awakened me to some perspective or another. I have to say that the person who wrought the most change in my thinking over time was Dylan. I still often disagreed with him. But he made me think -- and caused me to change my mind on some issues.

He's a FB friend, but he mostly just posts pictures of beautiful countryside. So I don't really benefit from his wisdom. Probably better for him. He used to get so upset.

STILL miss Dylan's posts. Makes me smile when every once in a blue moon you mention him. I too liked to read him, even though he could get out of control, sometimes. I wish he was still a part of this community. Or rather, I wish his posts/thinking was still a part of the conversations. I don't personally know him so it is not like I wish Dylan, the person was here...if that makes any sense.

Although I had been on the dash site and eagerly reading pretty much daily from the beginning, people were posts to me, not people. I didn't post much or at all really, so I did not create any connections. I didn't have any real interest in creating connections, either. I was interested in learning and growing through knowledge of of reading (gender, queer, stone, etc.). That was the purpose of that site to me.

I started posting near the end of the dash site (meaning, when it was active, prior to this one opening end of 2009), so maybe that is why I rolled into posting more here. This is also a different sort of place. As has been said before, a lot of the "figuring it out", and defining butch/femme, "stone", etc. happened at the other site. We still get into good topics here, but they are not always sit back, absorb, learn, and assess how I feel topics. And that is ok too. But, it may be not like that for other people <shrugs>. Either way, both sites have served a purpose in my life, neither more important/less appreciated, than the other.

Ok, so I have no idea where I was going with this..........

[aishah]

yes, it has for me (here and elsewhere). there are a lot of things in my life i'm not interested in changing my mind on, or that are so rooted in personal experience that i probably will not change (although i can't say never), but there are also a lot of things that i've learned from reading other posters here and elsewhere that have made me look at things from different perspectives and reconsider strong (even rigidly held) beliefs. for me, forums (especially when there is serious discussion) can be a way of working out what i think about something in my own mind, through typing it in a post, or working through my point of view and understanding an issue from different points of view, which sometimes leads to significant changes in how i look at things. for me at least, personal experience is more important than opinion or statistics or whatever when it comes to those discussions, usually, and i value what people share of their personal experiences here. there are lots of other great things about message boards, but that is what i love about discussing difficult topics here.

[Tuff Stuff]

The web,social media has open up so many doors in terms of learning.I'm the first to admit that i can be pretty stubborn in my ways and thinking.I do have a very open mind,nothing can shock me,i've seen and heard it all...so I believe.But every once and awhile I will get my mind totally crammed with new information from some one in person or online that I just have to sit back and really absorb those new ideas on how they see and understand the world...and it really makes so much more sense than my way.

So yes,I can also shut-up and be a student.